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It's really not my job to educate you on how to think rationally.

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  It's really not my job to educate you on how to think rationally. James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2016-02-21 09:19 -0800
    Re: It's really not my job to educate you on how to think rationally. Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-02-21 14:02 -0600
      Re: It's really not my job to educate you on how to think rationally. James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2016-02-21 12:06 -0800
    Re: It's really not my job to educate you on how to think rationally. jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-02-21 20:21 +0000
      Re: It's really not my job to educate you on how to think rationally. James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2016-02-21 12:51 -0800

#555262 — It's really not my job to educate you on how to think rationally.

http://scottishsceptic.co.uk/2011/08/26/how-to-get-off-the-ground-with-nothing-but-water-almost/#comment-39116

Scottish-Sceptic says:
21st February 2016 at 3:39 pm
Whatever the reason for it, the fact is that I've seen numerous data sheet showing that moist air is less dense than dry air

James McGinn:
I know of what you've seen.  It is not data it is derivations base on indirect data.  Most everybody is fooled by this.  Most everybody thinks its data (measured).  It's not.  The derivations include (hide) the assumption that clear, moist air contains gaseous H2O.  That is the card up the sleeve.  This is the smoke and mirrors.  Once you understand this trick you understand that, in reality, moist air is heavier than dry air at ambient temps, always (all other factors being the same). There is no gaseous H2O in our atmosphere.  

Even if we did assume steam it amounts to a 1% difference in weight--at sea level.  It lessens at colder temps.  The convection model has always been rather dubious speculation.  It's never been tested.  It is just believed, like a passage in the bible.  It is just a story told by meteorologists. It isn't really science. It's just what they've been trained to tell the public. 

Scottish-Sceptic:
and you have as yet provided no data to dispute that.

James McGinn:
If you believe in bigfoot there is no data that I can bring to you to prove to you that bigfoot does not exist.  Likewise, if you believe that H2O can be gaseous at ambient temps there is no data I can bring to you that will disprove that.  

Scottish-Sceptic:
I am however hoping that you might back up your assertions with some data as only the data can tell me whether your assertions are correct.

James McGinn:
I wouldn't waste my time with that.  There is already a wealth of data that indicates the boiling point of H2O.  This is common knowledge.  If you are able to ignore that then nothing I'm going to provide will stop you from believing what you want to believe.  You have to take responsibility for what you believe/understand.  It's really not my job to educate you on how to think rationally.  

Can you provide data that substantiates the existence of gaseous H2O at ambient temps?

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#555299

On 2/21/16 11:19 AM, James McGinn wrote:
> Can you provide data that substantiates the existence of gaseous H2O at ambient temps?

   About 0.001% of earth's water is in the atmosphere is gas, liquid
   and solid forms.

   The Water Cycle: Water Storage in the Atmosphere
> http://water.usgs.gov/edu/watercycleatmosphere.html

> The water cycle is all about storing water and moving water on, in,
> and above the Earth. Although the atmosphere may not be a great
> storehouse of water, it is the superhighway used to move water around
> the globe. Evaporation and transpiration change liquid water into
> vapor, which ascends into the atmosphere due to rising air currents.
> Cooler temperatures aloft allow the vapor to condense into clouds and
> strong winds move the clouds around the world until the water falls
> as precipitation to replenish the earthbound parts of the water
> cycle. About 90 percent of water in the atmosphere is produced by
> evaporation from water bodies, while the other 10 percent comes from
> transpiration from plants.

   Condensation - The Water Cycle
> http://water.usgs.gov/edu/watercyclecondensation.html

> Condensation is the process by which water vapor in the air is
> changed into liquid water. Condensation is crucial to the water cycle
> because it is responsible for the formation of clouds. These clouds
> may produce precipitation, which is the primary route for water to
> return to the Earth's surface within the water cycle. Condensation is
> the opposite of evaporation.
>
> The phase change that accompanies water as it moves between its
> vapor, liquid, and solid form happens because of differences in the
> arrangement of water molecules. Water molecules in the vapor form are
> arranged more randomly than in liquid water. As condensation occurs
> and liquid water forms from the vapor, the water molecules become
> organized in a less random structure, which is less random than in
> vapor, and heat is released into the atmosphere as a result.



-- 

sci.physics is an unmoderated newsgroup dedicated
to the discussion of physics, news from the physics
community, and physics-related social issues.

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#555301

On Sunday, February 21, 2016 at 12:02:25 PM UTC-8, Sam Wormley wrote:
> On 2/21/16 11:19 AM, James McGinn wrote:
> > Can you provide data that substantiates the existence of gaseous H2O at ambient temps?
> 
>    About 0.001% of earth's water is in the atmosphere is gas, 

Evidence?

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#555306

James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> wrote:
> http://scottishsceptic.co.uk/2011/08/26/how-to-get-off-the-ground-with-nothing-but-water-almost/#comment-39116
> 
> Scottish-Sceptic says:
> 21st February 2016 at 3:39 pm
> Whatever the reason for it, the fact is that I've seen numerous data
> sheet showing that moist air is less dense than dry air
> 
> James McGinn:
> I know of what you've seen.  It is not data it is derivations base on
> indirect data.

Such can be directly observed by Schlieren imaging, a technique so simple
that it is commonly a science fair project for children.



-- 
Jim Pennino

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#555310

On Sunday, February 21, 2016 at 12:31:12 PM UTC-8, ji...@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
> James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> wrote:
> > http://scottishsceptic.co.uk/2011/08/26/how-to-get-off-the-ground-with-nothing-but-water-almost/#comment-39116
> > 
> > Scottish-Sceptic says:
> > 21st February 2016 at 3:39 pm
> > Whatever the reason for it, the fact is that I've seen numerous data
> > sheet showing that moist air is less dense than dry air
> > 
> > James McGinn:
> > I know of what you've seen.  It is not data it is derivations base on
> > indirect data.
> 
> Such can be directly observed by Schlieren imaging, a technique so simple
> that it is commonly a science fair project for children.

Nobody disputes that its simple, like you.

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