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Groups > sci.physics > #567701 > unrolled thread
| Started by | "Robert Clark" <rgregoryclark@gmSPAMBLOACKail.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2016-04-03 12:52 -0400 |
| Last post | 2016-04-12 23:56 -0700 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 450 — 19 participants |
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Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon "Robert Clark" <rgregoryclark@gmSPAMBLOACKail.com> - 2016-04-03 12:52 -0400
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-03 17:07 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Doc O'Leary <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-04-04 15:20 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-04 18:35 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Double-A <double-a3@hush.com> - 2016-04-04 12:14 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 12:58 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Jack Ryan <mixmaster@remailer.cpunk.us> - 2016-04-05 03:50 -0400
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-05 18:20 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 16:14 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-04-05 18:47 -0500
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 00:00 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Jeff Findley <jfindley@cinci.nospam.rr.com> - 2016-04-07 06:10 -0400
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-07 18:51 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-04-08 14:23 -0500
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-08 13:25 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-04-09 09:57 -0500
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 10:20 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-04-17 12:53 -0500
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-17 13:01 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-04-17 19:38 -0500
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-18 00:27 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-06 00:28 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon "Robert Clark" <rgregoryclark@gmSPAMBLOACKail.com> - 2016-04-05 22:14 -0400
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-06 03:38 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Mikkel Haaheim <mikkelhaaheim@gmail.com> - 2016-04-13 00:27 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-13 17:35 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon "Robert Clark" <rgregoryclark@gmSPAMBLOACKail.com> - 2016-04-16 11:58 -0400
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-16 16:17 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 00:07 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Jeff Findley <jfindley@cinci.nospam.rr.com> - 2016-04-07 06:24 -0400
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-07 19:03 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2016-04-05 19:53 -0600
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-06 03:42 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2016-04-05 23:06 -0600
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-06 18:05 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 12:34 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2016-04-07 19:18 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-07 13:04 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2016-04-07 21:07 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-08 00:03 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2016-04-08 17:50 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-08 13:03 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2016-04-08 21:47 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-08 21:24 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2016-04-09 13:55 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-04-09 10:08 -0500
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 08:51 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 18:07 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 12:49 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 20:16 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 19:07 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-10 06:16 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 06:46 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-10 16:23 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 15:19 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-10 22:49 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 20:02 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-11 04:05 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-11 01:41 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-11 18:18 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-11 19:20 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-04-17 12:53 -0500
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-17 13:02 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2016-04-10 12:06 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 06:57 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2016-04-10 14:17 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 08:26 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2016-04-10 16:40 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 15:38 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2016-04-11 19:06 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-11 19:50 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-11 20:02 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-12 17:16 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-12 15:03 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-11 19:54 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-12 17:18 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-12 15:04 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-12 22:33 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-12 21:48 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-13 05:02 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-13 00:07 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-13 17:35 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-13 12:23 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-13 20:09 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-13 13:36 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-13 21:06 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-13 19:24 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-14 02:51 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-13 21:03 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-14 04:36 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 00:56 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-14 18:02 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 13:40 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-14 22:09 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 15:40 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-14 22:53 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 17:24 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-15 00:42 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 19:24 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-15 04:13 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 22:02 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-15 21:04 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-15 15:21 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-15 22:42 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-16 01:33 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-16 16:22 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-16 11:07 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-16 19:20 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-16 12:52 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-16 20:44 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-16 19:35 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-17 05:22 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-16 23:55 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-04-17 12:54 -0500
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-17 13:03 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-07 20:26 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-07 14:46 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-07 22:52 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-04-07 21:25 -0400
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Mikkel Haaheim <mikkelhaaheim@gmail.com> - 2016-04-13 00:39 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-13 17:39 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Mikkel Haaheim <mikkelhaaheim@gmail.com> - 2016-04-15 01:32 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-15 21:15 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Mikkel Haaheim <mikkelhaaheim@gmail.com> - 2016-04-16 08:51 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-16 16:28 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Mikkel Haaheim <mikkelhaaheim@gmail.com> - 2016-04-16 10:44 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-16 18:03 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Mikkel Haaheim <mikkelhaaheim@gmail.com> - 2016-04-16 10:24 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-16 17:47 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Mikkel Haaheim <mikkelhaaheim@gmail.com> - 2016-04-17 00:59 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-17 17:29 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-07 23:49 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-08 18:24 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-08 13:10 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-08 22:40 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-08 21:55 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 06:11 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 07:49 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 18:21 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 12:57 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 20:29 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 19:30 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2016-04-09 00:01 -0600
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Thomas Womack <twomack@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2016-04-09 09:21 +0100
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 18:24 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Doc O'Leary <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-04-09 15:49 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 09:01 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 14:22 -0400
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 18:26 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 10:45 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 19:08 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 13:22 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 20:41 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 19:50 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Doc O'Leary <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-04-06 17:39 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-06 18:08 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 12:36 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-07 19:06 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-07 12:59 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-07 20:28 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-07 23:52 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-08 18:26 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-08 13:14 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-08 22:42 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-08 21:57 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 06:14 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 07:52 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-04-09 10:09 -0500
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 18:31 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 13:00 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 20:34 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 19:42 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-04-12 21:07 -0500
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-12 22:25 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Doc O'Leary <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-04-07 15:55 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-07 19:14 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Doc O'Leary <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-04-09 14:54 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 18:36 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 13:00 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 20:36 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 19:44 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-10 06:19 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 06:47 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2016-04-09 18:17 -0600
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-10 00:37 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Doc O'Leary <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-04-10 16:50 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-10 17:13 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Doc O'Leary <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-04-11 16:41 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-11 18:21 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Doc O'Leary <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-04-12 15:48 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-12 17:21 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-04-12 21:08 -0500
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-12 22:26 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Mikkel Haaheim <mikkelhaaheim@gmail.com> - 2016-04-12 23:50 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-13 17:43 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Mikkel Haaheim <mikkelhaaheim@gmail.com> - 2016-04-15 01:44 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-15 21:19 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Mikkel Haaheim <mikkelhaaheim@gmail.com> - 2016-04-16 02:02 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-16 16:38 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Mikkel Haaheim <mikkelhaaheim@gmail.com> - 2016-04-16 10:29 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-16 18:00 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Mikkel Haaheim <mikkelhaaheim@gmail.com> - 2016-04-16 10:38 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-16 18:12 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Doc O'Leary <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-04-05 17:42 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-05 18:32 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 15:09 -0400
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-04-05 18:54 -0500
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2016-04-05 19:57 -0600
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Doc O'Leary <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-04-06 17:56 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-06 18:35 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 15:43 -0400
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-06 20:08 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 16:35 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-06 23:49 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 19:28 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-07 03:51 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 22:06 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-07 06:17 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-07 12:32 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-07 20:33 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-08 00:01 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-08 18:32 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-08 13:16 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-08 22:52 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-08 21:59 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 06:18 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 07:57 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 18:45 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 13:05 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 20:54 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 20:01 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-10 16:42 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 16:12 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-11 01:10 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 20:22 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-11 06:09 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-11 07:36 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-11 18:26 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-11 19:24 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-12 17:24 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-12 15:08 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-04-12 21:08 -0500
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-07 04:43 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 12:51 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-06 22:06 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 17:11 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-07 04:30 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 23:31 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-07 19:56 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-07 14:16 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-07 22:34 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-08 01:06 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-08 18:48 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-08 13:18 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-08 22:59 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-08 22:00 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 06:19 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 08:00 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 18:49 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 13:05 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 20:57 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 20:05 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-10 16:44 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 16:14 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-11 01:12 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 20:23 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-11 06:14 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-11 07:38 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-11 18:29 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-11 19:25 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-12 17:26 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-12 15:11 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-04-12 21:09 -0500
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-12 22:26 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2016-04-08 20:29 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-08 23:05 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 04:42 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Doc O'Leary <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-04-07 16:20 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-07 20:09 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-07 14:26 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-07 22:43 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-08 01:22 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-08 18:51 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-08 13:19 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-08 23:12 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Uncle Steve <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2016-04-08 05:49 -0400
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 06:26 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 08:05 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 18:54 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 13:10 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 21:03 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 20:11 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-10 06:23 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 06:50 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-10 16:49 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 16:16 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-11 01:14 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 20:26 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-11 06:16 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-11 07:40 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-11 18:30 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-11 19:27 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-12 17:27 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 06:55 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-10 16:59 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-04-07 21:40 -0500
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Doc O'Leary <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-04-09 15:29 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 19:02 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 13:20 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 21:14 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 20:20 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-10 17:07 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 17:37 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-11 01:29 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 20:44 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-11 06:35 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-11 08:11 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-11 19:05 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-11 19:51 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-12 18:08 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-12 15:28 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-12 23:07 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-12 22:05 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-13 17:51 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-13 12:53 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-13 20:31 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-13 18:54 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-14 03:22 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-13 21:39 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-14 18:01 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 13:39 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-14 22:24 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 16:53 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-15 00:22 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 18:28 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-15 01:47 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 20:23 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-15 04:35 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 22:49 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-15 21:32 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-15 15:48 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-15 23:43 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-13 04:26 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Doc O'Leary <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-04-10 17:22 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-10 17:56 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 17:44 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-11 01:30 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 20:46 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-11 05:21 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-11 01:43 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Doc O'Leary <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-04-11 16:48 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Rick Jones <rick.jones2@hpe.com> - 2016-04-11 18:52 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-11 19:08 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Doc O'Leary <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-04-12 15:53 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-12 18:23 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-12 15:32 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-12 23:13 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-12 22:06 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-13 17:52 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-13 12:54 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-13 20:33 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-13 19:09 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-14 04:06 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 00:45 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Doc O'Leary <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-04-13 15:39 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-13 09:34 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-13 17:59 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-13 12:57 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-13 20:34 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-13 19:15 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-14 04:06 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 00:47 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-14 18:05 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 14:30 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-14 22:26 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 16:56 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-15 00:25 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 18:30 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-15 02:09 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 21:41 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-15 21:33 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-15 15:49 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-15 23:46 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-16 02:38 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-16 16:57 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-16 11:25 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-16 19:21 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-16 12:55 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-16 20:49 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-16 19:39 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-17 05:23 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-16 23:58 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Doc O'Leary <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-04-14 16:46 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-14 18:06 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 14:31 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-14 22:27 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 16:56 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-15 00:26 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 18:32 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-15 02:10 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 21:41 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-15 21:34 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-15 15:50 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-13 17:53 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-13 12:56 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-13 20:35 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-13 19:17 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-14 04:07 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 00:48 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-14 18:08 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 14:35 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-14 22:29 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 17:05 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-15 00:32 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 19:20 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-15 21:38 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-15 16:00 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-15 23:52 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-16 02:49 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-16 16:59 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Mikkel Haaheim <mikkelhaaheim@gmail.com> - 2016-04-16 10:49 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-16 18:16 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Mikkel Haaheim <mikkelhaaheim@gmail.com> - 2016-04-17 00:32 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-17 17:35 +0000
Name calling is allowed/expected. Jeff-Relf.Me <@.> - 2016-04-16 12:00 -0700
Re: Name calling is allowed/expected. benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-16 15:14 -0400
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-16 11:26 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-16 19:22 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-16 12:54 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-11 19:12 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-12 18:24 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-12 15:34 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-12 23:15 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon noTthaTguY <abu.kuanysh05@gmail.com> - 2016-04-12 17:36 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-04-12 21:10 -0500
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-12 22:18 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-13 18:07 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-13 13:01 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-13 20:39 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-13 19:22 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-14 04:08 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 00:49 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-14 18:10 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 14:39 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-14 22:30 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 17:07 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-15 00:34 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 19:21 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-15 21:39 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Mikkel Haaheim <mikkelhaaheim@gmail.com> - 2016-04-12 23:56 -0700
Page 16 of 23 — ← Prev page 1 … 14 15 [16] 17 18 … 23 Next page →
| From | jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-11 18:30 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <a37ttc-ji3.ln1@mail.specsol.com> |
| In reply to | #569703 |
In sci.physics Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> wrote: > jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: <snip> >>You're not worth crossing the street to spit on, space cadet. >> > > Coward. Are you requesting a physical confrontation, space cadet? -- Jim Pennino
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-11 19:27 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <56nogb907aai0aan9flmmdbkk9t8813736@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #569769 |
jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>In sci.physics Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> wrote:
>> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>
><snip>
>
>>>You're not worth crossing the street to spit on, space cadet.
>>>
>>
>> Coward.
>>
>
>Are you requesting a physical confrontation, space cadet?
>
Just remember that after your threats I now have good reason to fear
your intention to injure or kill me...
--
"The odds get even - You blame the game.
The odds get even - The stakes are the same.
You bet your life."
-- "You Bet Your Life", Rush
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-12 17:27 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <spnvtc-24f.ln1@mail.specsol.com> |
| In reply to | #569852 |
In sci.physics Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> wrote: > jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: > >>In sci.physics Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> wrote: >>> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: >> >><snip> >> >>>>You're not worth crossing the street to spit on, space cadet. >>>> >>> >>> Coward. >>> >> >>Are you requesting a physical confrontation, space cadet? >> > > Just remember that after your threats I now have good reason to fear > your intention to injure or kill me... What threats would that be, space cadet? You are the one that seems to be requesting a physical confrontation. -- Jim Pennino
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-10 06:55 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <eaade8ac-cdcc-459b-937f-2d69dc25c037@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #569419 |
> Bullshit. You have great 20/20 hindsight, which I guess isn't > surprising, what with your head up your ass like that and all. Your > foresight, on the other hand, is pretty much nonexistent. I guess > your stomach gets in the way. > > Back to your cave, chimp. Fuck off and die, silly space cadet. -- Jim Pennino -------------------- I can't help but be stuck by the similarities of the push back you get from these Mars kooks with the response I get from esp/ufo/911 kooks. And it's for exactly the same reasons. You're taking away their dreams with the truth but not replacing them with anything. Too bad there wasn't a way to give out virtual crying towels on newsgroups
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-10 16:59 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <ncdqtc-6hn.ln1@mail.specsol.com> |
| In reply to | #569431 |
HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> wrote: > I can't help but be stuck by the similarities of the push back you get > from these Mars kooks with the response I get from esp/ufo/911 kooks. > And it's for exactly the same reasons. You're taking away their dreams > with the truth but not replacing them with anything. > Too bad there wasn't a way to give out virtual crying towels on newsgroups A buddy of mine told me a story about when he was in the Navy. He stopped one day to talk with the Marine guard on his building and got to talking about what they were going to do when they got out. The Marine said he was going to get a double bladded axe, go to the Northwest and be a lumber jack like Paul Bunyan. My buddy chuckled and said that they use chain saws and machinery these days. The Marine got all pissed off and accused my buddy of trying to steal his job.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-07 21:40 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <ne75nc$18pd$1@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #568712 |
On 4/7/2016 4:26 PM, Fred J. McCall wrote: > jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: > >> In sci.physics Doc O'Leary <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> wrote: >>> For your reference, records indicate that >>> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: >>> >>> >>>> So just what are the natural resources available on Mars? rocks, dust, no air. >>>> There are no forests, no lakes, no rivers, no life and no air. >>> >>> You seem to have more knowledge than NASA on those things. How is that? that is what NASA says... >> > > They've announced there's free flowing water on Mars, water vapour in > the atmosphere, underground ices. no, not free flowing water. >> >> So you think you can survive on the Moon or Mars without a presurized >> building? Are you going to live in a pressure suit 24/7? how you gonna poop ? > >> I have been talking about colonies, i.e. families and kids. you want your kids on Mars ? so do a lot of other parents. >> >> A research station requires very little in terms of infrastructure, just >> constant resupply. >> > > Wrong. You see, this is the kind of error you make when you misapply > 'economic thinking' from ignorance. First example, it's cheaper to > ship an automated rocket fuel factory to Mars to make fuel for the > return trip than it is to ship the fuel. so, how do you make fuel from dust and rocks ? >> >> It is my opinion that an off Earth true colony would cost far too much >> for anyone to ever try it and few people would be willing to permanently >> move to one. agree, it will be worse than being in prison. >> >> It is my opinion that off Earth research stations are of limited value >> and the cost and rewards of doing them should be balanced against sending >> swarms of robots throughout the solar system. >> how do you wash clothes in space ? use how much water, then purify the water, how ? be specific. You will find washing clothes is one of the key restraints on space travel. what do they do now? not washing, the ship new clothes up with the shuttle. you will find that Man is specifically designed to exist on Earth. (water, air, food, cleaning, poop, etc) not Mars, Not the moon. > > If people aren't going, there's no point to "swarms of robots" so the > cost there is zero. robot probes will work
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| From | Doc O'Leary <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-09 15:29 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <neb75g$qk1$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #568667 |
For your reference, records indicate that jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: > I use economic thinking. Think about thinking more rationally. Think about thinking about not finance and banking, but survival. > It is well known that there is lots of gold in sea water but it costs > far more to extract than the gold is worth. What the hell does that have to do with anything? First you bring up Antartica and then say it’s irrelevant, and now you do the same with gold. Nobody on a planet other than Earth is going to give a *shit* about gold. Unless it relates to survival, everything you’re thinking about is irrelevant. > >> There are no forests, no lakes, no rivers, no life and no air. > > > > You seem to have more knowledge than NASA on those things. How is that? > > When did NASA announce there are forests, lakes, rivers, life, and > air anywhere else than Earth? You again demonstrate a lack of logical thinking. You set out to prove a negative; that’s *your* burden, not mine. But, of course, it is entirely irrelevant. A moon/planet can be devoid of those resources and yet still have many other ones to work with. It just becomes a different problem to solve. Perhaps more complex, from a “let’s see if we can transplant Earthlings there” standpoint, but there is nothing a priori that says it couldn’t be done. > >> something usefull to build the domed and pressurized buildings > >> required to survive and do anything. > > > > If thats how you think about what is *required* to survive, you clearly > > havent thought much about the problem. These are *your* straw men. > > So you think you can survive on the Moon or Mars without a presurized > building? Are you going to live in a pressure suit 24/7? Maybe. The point is to solve the problems that *actually* exist, not dream up straw men like the “need” to build domed cities. > It is my opinion that an off Earth true colony would cost far too much > for anyone to ever try it and few people would be willing to permanently > move to one. “Ever” is a mighty long time. The only real question is *how much* would it cost at any particular time, and how might those costs be reduced until it *does* become something that some impossibly stupid billionaire is willing to try it in order to stake a claim on an entire new world. -- "Also . . . I can kill you with my brain." River Tam, Trash, Firefly
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-09 19:02 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <n70otc-2gf.ln1@mail.specsol.com> |
| In reply to | #569230 |
In sci.physics Doc O'Leary <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> wrote: > For your reference, records indicate that > jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: > >> I use economic thinking. > > Think about thinking more rationally. Think about thinking about > not finance and banking, but survival. And it will take a LOT of finance to get to and survive on Mars. >> It is well known that there is lots of gold in sea water but it costs >> far more to extract than the gold is worth. > > What the hell does that have to do with anything? First you bring up > Antartica and then say its irrelevant, and now you do the same with > gold. Nobody on a planet other than Earth is going to give a *shit* > about gold. Unless it relates to survival, everything you’re thinking > about is irrelevant. Pay attention; it was about the economics of going to other places, i.e. getting a return on investment, which was a big motivator for the colonizaton of the Americas. >> >> There are no forests, no lakes, no rivers, no life and no air. >> > >> > You seem to have more knowledge than NASA on those things. How is that? >> >> When did NASA announce there are forests, lakes, rivers, life, and >> air anywhere else than Earth? > > You again demonstrate a lack of logical thinking. You set out to prove > a negative; thats *your* burden, not mine. Nope, it is your delusiong there are forests, lakes, rivers, life, and air anywhere other than Earth. > But, of course, it is entirely irrelevant. A moon/planet can be devoid > of those resources and yet still have many other ones to work with. It > just becomes a different problem to solve. Perhaps more complex, from > aet’s see if we can transplant Earthlings there” standpoint, but > there is nothing a priori that says it couldnt be done. Be done is not the same thing as ROI. >> >> something usefull to build the domed and pressurized buildings >> >> required to survive and do anything. >> > >> > If thats how you think about what is *required* to survive, you clearly >> > havent thought much about the problem. These are *your* straw men. >> >> So you think you can survive on the Moon or Mars without a presurized >> building? Are you going to live in a pressure suit 24/7? > > Maybe. The point is to solve the problems that *actually* exist, not > dream up straw men like the need” to builddomed cities. The need to build pressurized work and living areas does exist. >> It is my opinion that an off Earth true colony would cost far too much >> for anyone to ever try it and few people would be willing to permanently >> move to one. > > “Ever” is a mighty long time. The only real question is *how much* would > it cost at any particular time, and how might those costs be reduced > until it *does* become something that some impossibly stupid billionaire > is willing to try it in order to stake a claim on an entire new world. And do what with it? Spain conquered a big part of the New World for the easily gotten wealth. There is nothing off the Earth valuable enough to turn a profit after acquistion and shipping costs. -- Jim Pennino
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-09 13:20 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <shoigbdh0lsjeu0derksobg8p3dd3htcii@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #569264 |
jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>In sci.physics Doc O'Leary <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> wrote:
>> For your reference, records indicate that
>> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>>
>>> I use economic thinking.
>>
>> Think about thinking more rationally. Think about thinking about
>> not finance and banking, but survival.
>
>And it will take a LOT of finance to get to and survive on Mars.
>
Musk thinks he can make it work at $500,000 per colonist and include a
free trip back to Earth for those who decide it's not their cup of
tea. There are a lot of people who can afford that. Hell, *I* can
afford that.
>>> It is well known that there is lots of gold in sea water but it costs
>>> far more to extract than the gold is worth.
>>
>> What the hell does that have to do with anything? First you bring up
>> Antartica and then say its irrelevant, and now you do the same with
>> gold. Nobody on a planet other than Earth is going to give a *shit*
>> about gold. Unless it relates to survival, everything you’re thinking
>> about is irrelevant.
>
>Pay attention; it was about the economics of going to other places, i.e.
>getting a return on investment, which was a big motivator for the
>colonizaton of the Americas.
>
Weren't you just raving about "freedom from religious persecution"? So
which is it?
>>> >> There are no forests, no lakes, no rivers, no life and no air.
>>> >
>>> > You seem to have more knowledge than NASA on those things. How is that?
>>>
>>> When did NASA announce there are forests, lakes, rivers, life, and
>>> air anywhere else than Earth?
>>
>> You again demonstrate a lack of logical thinking. You set out to prove
>> a negative; thats *your* burden, not mine.
>
>Nope, it is your delusiong there are forests, lakes, rivers, life, and air
>anywhere other than Earth.
>
<yawn>
>> But, of course, it is entirely irrelevant. A moon/planet can be devoid
>> of those resources and yet still have many other ones to work with. It
>> just becomes a different problem to solve. Perhaps more complex, from
>> aet’s see if we can transplant Earthlings there” standpoint, but
>> there is nothing a priori that says it couldnt be done.
>
>Be done is not the same thing as ROI.
>
Religious persecution is not the same thing as ROI. Care to choose
one?
>>> >> something usefull to build the domed and pressurized buildings
>>> >> required to survive and do anything.
>>> >
>>> > If thats how you think about what is *required* to survive, you clearly
>>> > havent thought much about the problem. These are *your* straw men.
>>>
>>> So you think you can survive on the Moon or Mars without a presurized
>>> building? Are you going to live in a pressure suit 24/7?
>>
>> Maybe. The point is to solve the problems that *actually* exist, not
>> dream up straw men like the need” to builddomed cities.
>
>The need to build pressurized work and living areas does exist.
>
And is easy.
>>> It is my opinion that an off Earth true colony would cost far too much
>>> for anyone to ever try it and few people would be willing to permanently
>>> move to one.
>>
>> “Ever” is a mighty long time. The only real question is *how much* would
>> it cost at any particular time, and how might those costs be reduced
>> until it *does* become something that some impossibly stupid billionaire
>> is willing to try it in order to stake a claim on an entire new world.
>
>And do what with it?
>
>Spain conquered a big part of the New World for the easily gotten wealth.
>
>There is nothing off the Earth valuable enough to turn a profit after
>acquistion and shipping costs.
>
Your intellectual myopia is not 'proof'.
--
"Ordinarily he is insane. But he has lucid moments when he is
only stupid."
-- Heinrich Heine
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-09 21:14 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <pt7otc-q7g.ln1@mail.specsol.com> |
| In reply to | #569279 |
In sci.physics Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> wrote: > jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: > >>In sci.physics Doc O'Leary <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> wrote: >>> For your reference, records indicate that >>> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: >>> >>>> I use economic thinking. >>> >>> Think about thinking more rationally. Think about thinking about >>> not finance and banking, but survival. >> >>And it will take a LOT of finance to get to and survive on Mars. >> > > Musk thinks he can make it work at $500,000 per colonist and include a > free trip back to Earth for those who decide it's not their cup of > tea. There are a lot of people who can afford that. Hell, *I* can > afford that. So can I and the wife. However if I were to tell her we were going to to live on Mars, the best I could expect is a divorce as opposed to being shot. >>>> It is well known that there is lots of gold in sea water but it costs >>>> far more to extract than the gold is worth. >>> >>> What the hell does that have to do with anything? First you bring up >>> Antartica and then say its irrelevant, and now you do the same with >>> gold. Nobody on a planet other than Earth is going to give a *shit* >>> about gold. Unless it relates to survival, everything you?re thinking >>> about is irrelevant. >> >>Pay attention; it was about the economics of going to other places, i.e. >>getting a return on investment, which was a big motivator for the >>colonizaton of the Americas. >> > > Weren't you just raving about "freedom from religious persecution"? So > which is it? Some of both, but mostly ROI for those that put the colonies together. Ever heard of the London Company, established 1606, with the purpose of establishing colonial settlements in North America? >>>> >> There are no forests, no lakes, no rivers, no life and no air. >>>> > >>>> > You seem to have more knowledge than NASA on those things. How is that? >>>> >>>> When did NASA announce there are forests, lakes, rivers, life, and >>>> air anywhere else than Earth? >>> >>> You again demonstrate a lack of logical thinking. You set out to prove >>> a negative; thats *your* burden, not mine. >> >>Nope, it is your delusiong there are forests, lakes, rivers, life, and air >>anywhere other than Earth. >> > > <yawn> > >>> But, of course, it is entirely irrelevant. A moon/planet can be devoid >>> of those resources and yet still have many other ones to work with. It >>> just becomes a different problem to solve. Perhaps more complex, from >>> aet?s see if we can transplant Earthlings there? standpoint, but >>> there is nothing a priori that says it couldnt be done. >> >>Be done is not the same thing as ROI. >> > > Religious persecution is not the same thing as ROI. Care to choose > one? Are you so single minded you can not see the existance of both? >>>> >> something usefull to build the domed and pressurized buildings >>>> >> required to survive and do anything. >>>> > >>>> > If thats how you think about what is *required* to survive, you clearly >>>> > havent thought much about the problem. These are *your* straw men. >>>> >>>> So you think you can survive on the Moon or Mars without a presurized >>>> building? Are you going to live in a pressure suit 24/7? >>> >>> Maybe. The point is to solve the problems that *actually* exist, not >>> dream up straw men like the need? to builddomed cities. >> >>The need to build pressurized work and living areas does exist. >> > > And is easy. And expensive and absolutely needed to survive more than 3 minutes, unlike anywhere in the Americas. >>>> It is my opinion that an off Earth true colony would cost far too much >>>> for anyone to ever try it and few people would be willing to permanently >>>> move to one. >>> >>> ?Ever? is a mighty long time. The only real question is *how much* would >>> it cost at any particular time, and how might those costs be reduced >>> until it *does* become something that some impossibly stupid billionaire >>> is willing to try it in order to stake a claim on an entire new world. >> >>And do what with it? >> >>Spain conquered a big part of the New World for the easily gotten wealth. >> >>There is nothing off the Earth valuable enough to turn a profit after >>acquistion and shipping costs. >> > > Your intellectual myopia is not 'proof'. Name something then. Your historical ignorance, single minded fixations, and lack of understanding of human motivations are astounding. -- Jim Pennino
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-09 20:20 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <b5hjgb1rj73e0u74ei761gkfob0o2cfgjm@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #569298 |
jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>In sci.physics Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> wrote:
>> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>>
>>>In sci.physics Doc O'Leary <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> wrote:
>>>> For your reference, records indicate that
>>>> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I use economic thinking.
>>>>
>>>> Think about thinking more rationally. Think about thinking about
>>>> not finance and banking, but survival.
>>>
>>>And it will take a LOT of finance to get to and survive on Mars.
>>>
>>
>> Musk thinks he can make it work at $500,000 per colonist and include a
>> free trip back to Earth for those who decide it's not their cup of
>> tea. There are a lot of people who can afford that. Hell, *I* can
>> afford that.
>
>So can I and the wife.
>
Sure you can.
>
>However if I were to tell her we were going to to live on Mars, the
>best I could expect is a divorce as opposed to being shot.
>
So she doesn't love you after all. I'm sorry for you.
>>>>> It is well known that there is lots of gold in sea water but it costs
>>>>> far more to extract than the gold is worth.
>>>>
>>>> What the hell does that have to do with anything? First you bring up
>>>> Antartica and then say its irrelevant, and now you do the same with
>>>> gold. Nobody on a planet other than Earth is going to give a *shit*
>>>> about gold. Unless it relates to survival, everything you?re thinking
>>>> about is irrelevant.
>>>
>>>Pay attention; it was about the economics of going to other places, i.e.
>>>getting a return on investment, which was a big motivator for the
>>>colonizaton of the Americas.
>>>
>>
>> Weren't you just raving about "freedom from religious persecution"? So
>> which is it?
>>
>
>Some of both, but mostly ROI for those that put the colonies together.
>
>Ever heard of the London Company, established 1606, with the purpose of
>establishing colonial settlements in North America?
>
Sure, but that's not the sort of ROI what you've been raving about.
You've been raving about the COLONY ROI, not the organizers'
>
>>>>> >> There are no forests, no lakes, no rivers, no life and no air.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > You seem to have more knowledge than NASA on those things. How is that?
>>>>>
>>>>> When did NASA announce there are forests, lakes, rivers, life, and
>>>>> air anywhere else than Earth?
>>>>
>>>> You again demonstrate a lack of logical thinking. You set out to prove
>>>> a negative; thats *your* burden, not mine.
>>>
>>>Nope, it is your delusiong there are forests, lakes, rivers, life, and air
>>>anywhere other than Earth.
>>>
>>
>> <yawn>
>>
>>>> But, of course, it is entirely irrelevant. A moon/planet can be devoid
>>>> of those resources and yet still have many other ones to work with. It
>>>> just becomes a different problem to solve. Perhaps more complex, from
>>>> aet?s see if we can transplant Earthlings there? standpoint, but
>>>> there is nothing a priori that says it couldnt be done.
>>>
>>>Be done is not the same thing as ROI.
>>>
>>
>> Religious persecution is not the same thing as ROI. Care to choose
>> one?
>
>Are you so single minded you can not see the existance of both?
>
Are you so single minded that you don't know what ROI means even when
you rave about it?
>>>>> >> something usefull to build the domed and pressurized buildings
>>>>> >> required to survive and do anything.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > If thats how you think about what is *required* to survive, you clearly
>>>>> > havent thought much about the problem. These are *your* straw men.
>>>>>
>>>>> So you think you can survive on the Moon or Mars without a presurized
>>>>> building? Are you going to live in a pressure suit 24/7?
>>>>
>>>> Maybe. The point is to solve the problems that *actually* exist, not
>>>> dream up straw men like the need? to builddomed cities.
>>>
>>>The need to build pressurized work and living areas does exist.
>>>
>>
>> And is easy.
>
>And expensive and absolutely needed to survive more than 3 minutes, unlike
>anywhere in the Americas.
>
So what? There's also no Starbuck's. Holy fuck, how will we ever
survive?
>>>>> It is my opinion that an off Earth true colony would cost far too much
>>>>> for anyone to ever try it and few people would be willing to permanently
>>>>> move to one.
>>>>
>>>> ?Ever? is a mighty long time. The only real question is *how much* would
>>>> it cost at any particular time, and how might those costs be reduced
>>>> until it *does* become something that some impossibly stupid billionaire
>>>> is willing to try it in order to stake a claim on an entire new world.
>>>
>>>And do what with it?
>>>
>>>Spain conquered a big part of the New World for the easily gotten wealth.
>>>
>>>There is nothing off the Earth valuable enough to turn a profit after
>>>acquistion and shipping costs.
>>>
>>
>> Your intellectual myopia is not 'proof'.
>>
>
>Name something then.
>
Asked and answered.
>
>Your historical ignorance, single minded fixations, and lack of understanding
>of human motivations are astounding.
>
You thinking your insults and raw assertions mean anything with regard
to actual facts is, well, stupid.
--
"Ordinarily he is insane. But he has lucid moments when he is
only stupid."
-- Heinrich Heine
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-10 17:07 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <brdqtc-6hn.ln1@mail.specsol.com> |
| In reply to | #569353 |
In sci.physics Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> wrote: > jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: > >>In sci.physics Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> wrote: >>> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: >>> >>>>In sci.physics Doc O'Leary <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> wrote: >>>>> For your reference, records indicate that >>>>> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I use economic thinking. >>>>> >>>>> Think about thinking more rationally. Think about thinking about >>>>> not finance and banking, but survival. >>>> >>>>And it will take a LOT of finance to get to and survive on Mars. >>>> >>> >>> Musk thinks he can make it work at $500,000 per colonist and include a >>> free trip back to Earth for those who decide it's not their cup of >>> tea. There are a lot of people who can afford that. Hell, *I* can >>> afford that. >> >>So can I and the wife. >> > > Sure you can. Not a problem. I would have to forgo getting a new airplane, but you can't fly airplanes on Mars. >>However if I were to tell her we were going to to live on Mars, the >>best I could expect is a divorce as opposed to being shot. >> > > So she doesn't love you after all. I'm sorry for you. Nope, she just isn't insane. >>>>>> It is well known that there is lots of gold in sea water but it costs >>>>>> far more to extract than the gold is worth. >>>>> >>>>> What the hell does that have to do with anything? First you bring up >>>>> Antartica and then say its irrelevant, and now you do the same with >>>>> gold. Nobody on a planet other than Earth is going to give a *shit* >>>>> about gold. Unless it relates to survival, everything you?re thinking >>>>> about is irrelevant. >>>> >>>>Pay attention; it was about the economics of going to other places, i.e. >>>>getting a return on investment, which was a big motivator for the >>>>colonizaton of the Americas. >>>> >>> >>> Weren't you just raving about "freedom from religious persecution"? So >>> which is it? >>> >> >>Some of both, but mostly ROI for those that put the colonies together. >> >>Ever heard of the London Company, established 1606, with the purpose of >>establishing colonial settlements in North America? >> > > Sure, but that's not the sort of ROI what you've been raving about. > You've been raving about the COLONY ROI, not the organizers' Most colonies started as part of an organization to make profit. While the Spanish were mostly plundering the English were into furs, timber, and various crops. It wasn't until the profitablity of tobacco was realized the Spanish were much into real colonies. >>>>>> >> There are no forests, no lakes, no rivers, no life and no air. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > You seem to have more knowledge than NASA on those things. How is that? >>>>>> >>>>>> When did NASA announce there are forests, lakes, rivers, life, and >>>>>> air anywhere else than Earth? >>>>> >>>>> You again demonstrate a lack of logical thinking. You set out to prove >>>>> a negative; thats *your* burden, not mine. >>>> >>>>Nope, it is your delusiong there are forests, lakes, rivers, life, and air >>>>anywhere other than Earth. >>>> >>> >>> <yawn> >>> >>>>> But, of course, it is entirely irrelevant. A moon/planet can be devoid >>>>> of those resources and yet still have many other ones to work with. It >>>>> just becomes a different problem to solve. Perhaps more complex, from >>>>> aet?s see if we can transplant Earthlings there? standpoint, but >>>>> there is nothing a priori that says it couldnt be done. >>>> >>>>Be done is not the same thing as ROI. >>>> >>> >>> Religious persecution is not the same thing as ROI. Care to choose >>> one? >> >>Are you so single minded you can not see the existance of both? >> > > Are you so single minded that you don't know what ROI means even when > you rave about it? Are you so single minded that you don't know that human motivation comes in several forms? > >>>>>> >> something usefull to build the domed and pressurized buildings >>>>>> >> required to survive and do anything. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > If thats how you think about what is *required* to survive, you clearly >>>>>> > havent thought much about the problem. These are *your* straw men. >>>>>> >>>>>> So you think you can survive on the Moon or Mars without a presurized >>>>>> building? Are you going to live in a pressure suit 24/7? >>>>> >>>>> Maybe. The point is to solve the problems that *actually* exist, not >>>>> dream up straw men like the need? to builddomed cities. >>>> >>>>The need to build pressurized work and living areas does exist. >>>> >>> >>> And is easy. >> >>And expensive and absolutely needed to survive more than 3 minutes, unlike >>anywhere in the Americas. >> > > So what? There's also no Starbuck's. Holy fuck, how will we ever > survive? Likely you couldn't survive without Starbuck's. >>>>>> It is my opinion that an off Earth true colony would cost far too much >>>>>> for anyone to ever try it and few people would be willing to permanently >>>>>> move to one. >>>>> >>>>> ?Ever? is a mighty long time. The only real question is *how much* would >>>>> it cost at any particular time, and how might those costs be reduced >>>>> until it *does* become something that some impossibly stupid billionaire >>>>> is willing to try it in order to stake a claim on an entire new world. >>>> >>>>And do what with it? >>>> >>>>Spain conquered a big part of the New World for the easily gotten wealth. >>>> >>>>There is nothing off the Earth valuable enough to turn a profit after >>>>acquistion and shipping costs. >>>> >>> >>> Your intellectual myopia is not 'proof'. >>> >> >>Name something then. >> > > Asked and answered. Nope, always arm waved and avoided with phrases like it should be obvious. So state the obious. -- Jim Pennino
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-10 17:37 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <7pnlgbtkadqhjqs228nls7epj61c2oeel4@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #569476 |
jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>In sci.physics Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> wrote:
>> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>>
>>>In sci.physics Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>In sci.physics Doc O'Leary <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> wrote:
>>>>>> For your reference, records indicate that
>>>>>> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I use economic thinking.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Think about thinking more rationally. Think about thinking about
>>>>>> not finance and banking, but survival.
>>>>>
>>>>>And it will take a LOT of finance to get to and survive on Mars.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Musk thinks he can make it work at $500,000 per colonist and include a
>>>> free trip back to Earth for those who decide it's not their cup of
>>>> tea. There are a lot of people who can afford that. Hell, *I* can
>>>> afford that.
>>>
>>>So can I and the wife.
>>>
>>
>> Sure you can.
>
>Not a problem. I would have to forgo getting a new airplane, but you
>can't fly airplanes on Mars.
>
No individual would want their own airplane. No ROI, after all.
>>>However if I were to tell her we were going to to live on Mars, the
>>>best I could expect is a divorce as opposed to being shot.
>>>
>>
>> So she doesn't love you after all. I'm sorry for you.
>
>Nope, she just isn't insane.
>
Evidence is that she is, since she married you.
>>>>>>> It is well known that there is lots of gold in sea water but it costs
>>>>>>> far more to extract than the gold is worth.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What the hell does that have to do with anything? First you bring up
>>>>>> Antartica and then say its irrelevant, and now you do the same with
>>>>>> gold. Nobody on a planet other than Earth is going to give a *shit*
>>>>>> about gold. Unless it relates to survival, everything you?re thinking
>>>>>> about is irrelevant.
>>>>>
>>>>>Pay attention; it was about the economics of going to other places, i.e.
>>>>>getting a return on investment, which was a big motivator for the
>>>>>colonizaton of the Americas.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Weren't you just raving about "freedom from religious persecution"? So
>>>> which is it?
>>>>
>>>
>>>Some of both, but mostly ROI for those that put the colonies together.
>>>
>>>Ever heard of the London Company, established 1606, with the purpose of
>>>establishing colonial settlements in North America?
>>>
>>
>> Sure, but that's not the sort of ROI what you've been raving about.
>> You've been raving about the COLONY ROI, not the organizers'
>
>Most colonies started as part of an organization to make profit.
>
That was certainly the motive of the folks transporting colonists, but
that's hardly the point OR the objection you've been raising.
>
>While the Spanish were mostly plundering the English were into furs,
>timber, and various crops.
>
>It wasn't until the profitablity of tobacco was realized the Spanish
>were much into real colonies.
>
Bullshit.
>
>>>>>>> >> There are no forests, no lakes, no rivers, no life and no air.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > You seem to have more knowledge than NASA on those things. How is that?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> When did NASA announce there are forests, lakes, rivers, life, and
>>>>>>> air anywhere else than Earth?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You again demonstrate a lack of logical thinking. You set out to prove
>>>>>> a negative; thats *your* burden, not mine.
>>>>>
>>>>>Nope, it is your delusiong there are forests, lakes, rivers, life, and air
>>>>>anywhere other than Earth.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <yawn>
>>>>
>>>>>> But, of course, it is entirely irrelevant. A moon/planet can be devoid
>>>>>> of those resources and yet still have many other ones to work with. It
>>>>>> just becomes a different problem to solve. Perhaps more complex, from
>>>>>> aet?s see if we can transplant Earthlings there? standpoint, but
>>>>>> there is nothing a priori that says it couldnt be done.
>>>>>
>>>>>Be done is not the same thing as ROI.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Religious persecution is not the same thing as ROI. Care to choose
>>>> one?
>>>
>>>Are you so single minded you can not see the existance of both?
>>>
>>
>> Are you so single minded that you don't know what ROI means even when
>> you rave about it?
>
>Are you so single minded that you don't know that human motivation
>comes in several forms?
>
You are the one wanking on about 'ROI', not I. In your insistence
that "no one would go", it is seemingly YOU who "don't know that human
motivation comes in several forms".
>>
>>>>>>> >> something usefull to build the domed and pressurized buildings
>>>>>>> >> required to survive and do anything.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > If thats how you think about what is *required* to survive, you clearly
>>>>>>> > havent thought much about the problem. These are *your* straw men.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So you think you can survive on the Moon or Mars without a presurized
>>>>>>> building? Are you going to live in a pressure suit 24/7?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Maybe. The point is to solve the problems that *actually* exist, not
>>>>>> dream up straw men like the need? to builddomed cities.
>>>>>
>>>>>The need to build pressurized work and living areas does exist.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> And is easy.
>>>
>>>And expensive and absolutely needed to survive more than 3 minutes, unlike
>>>anywhere in the Americas.
>>>
>>
>> So what? There's also no Starbuck's. Holy fuck, how will we ever
>> survive?
>
>Likely you couldn't survive without Starbuck's.
>
Wow, are you stupid!
>>>>>>> It is my opinion that an off Earth true colony would cost far too much
>>>>>>> for anyone to ever try it and few people would be willing to permanently
>>>>>>> move to one.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ?Ever? is a mighty long time. The only real question is *how much* would
>>>>>> it cost at any particular time, and how might those costs be reduced
>>>>>> until it *does* become something that some impossibly stupid billionaire
>>>>>> is willing to try it in order to stake a claim on an entire new world.
>>>>>
>>>>>And do what with it?
>>>>>
>>>>>Spain conquered a big part of the New World for the easily gotten wealth.
>>>>>
>>>>>There is nothing off the Earth valuable enough to turn a profit after
>>>>>acquistion and shipping costs.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Your intellectual myopia is not 'proof'.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Name something then.
>>>
>>
>> Asked and answered.
>>
>
>Nope, always arm waved and avoided with phrases like it should be obvious.
>
>So state the obious.
>
Mars One is using the 'Kardashian Approach'. They're going to get
their money out with a reality show about the establishment and growth
of the colony. I couldn't tell you the motivation of the 200,000+
people who applied to go; probably various.
Elon Musk thinks he can turn a profit just on transportation costs. So
there's his ROI.
Despite your own exposition about how "human motivation comes in
several forms", you will now no doubt insist on an ROI FOR THE COLONY
ITSELF and not just for the organizers. I'd like to go on just a bit
about how conflicted your own views here are before I repeat the
answer I gave you before. In your head a colony must be "totally
self-sufficient". If it is, the colony doesn't need to produce an
external ROI; people just live their lives. If it isn't, you insist
it isn't a 'real colony'. When you're caught in cases of colonies
here on Earth that had no 'ROI' for the colonists going in, you come
out with how "human motivation comes in several forms".
You need to stop spinning around trying to bite yourself in the small
of the back (from the inside), Jim. You have a real definitional
problem and you constantly shift your ground however is convenient for
you to clench your little fists and shout "NO!".
Now you know whatever I say you're going to pick apart and raise
objections to, because raising obstructions is so much easier than
actually building something. And that's why I hold you in the low
regard I do. I realize your bloated ego keeps you from caring about
that, but I find it funny that I've spent decades designing and
building real things while you've done ... what?
Now, to answer the question again. Perhaps I can lead you to a
logical conclusion (but I doubt it). What is of value in near Earth
space? Right now it's weather prediction, telecom, and navigation.
The first is sort of a non-starter for Mars, but the other two work
just fine if any work is being done anyplace in the outer system. Fuel
depot (think the old 'coaling station' model).
If you want to build something big and grandiose, picture mining
asteroids for metals. It doesn't matter that big finds lower the
price. They don't lower it to zero. That mining is supported from
out on Mars (lower transit and transmission delays). Mining ships
could be manned, teleoperated, or any combination. When something is
found, you throw it back at the Moon. Don't need to slow it down too
much. Just let it hit. Then go mine it out from your lunar colony.
Fabricate it into various chunks of infractructure for use in space.
This is easier where there's gravity, the Moon is near Earth where you
mostly want the stuff, and the lunar gravity well isn't that deep.
Smelt the excess down and dump it to earth.
We will now see the Jimp the Chimp "instant colony" fallacy, wherein
he will complain about the cost of the FINAL STATE and fail to
recognize that everything builds incrementally and it goes where it
goes. Britain didn't send 330,000,000 people to the US, either...
--
"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the
soul with evil."
-- Socrates
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-11 01:29 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <p8brtc-jnq.ln1@mail.specsol.com> |
| In reply to | #569576 |
In sci.physics Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> wrote: > jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: > >>In sci.physics Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> wrote: >>> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: >>> >>>>In sci.physics Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>In sci.physics Doc O'Leary <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> wrote: >>>>>>> For your reference, records indicate that >>>>>>> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I use economic thinking. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Think about thinking more rationally. Think about thinking about >>>>>>> not finance and banking, but survival. >>>>>> >>>>>>And it will take a LOT of finance to get to and survive on Mars. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Musk thinks he can make it work at $500,000 per colonist and include a >>>>> free trip back to Earth for those who decide it's not their cup of >>>>> tea. There are a lot of people who can afford that. Hell, *I* can >>>>> afford that. >>>> >>>>So can I and the wife. >>>> >>> >>> Sure you can. >> >>Not a problem. I would have to forgo getting a new airplane, but you >>can't fly airplanes on Mars. >> > > No individual would want their own airplane. No ROI, after all. Individual ownership of luxury items doesn't have anything to do with ROI, space cadet fool. >>>>However if I were to tell her we were going to to live on Mars, the >>>>best I could expect is a divorce as opposed to being shot. >>>> >>> >>> So she doesn't love you after all. I'm sorry for you. >> >>Nope, she just isn't insane. >> > > Evidence is that she is, since she married you. Fuck off and die, space cadet fool. >>>>>>>> It is well known that there is lots of gold in sea water but it costs >>>>>>>> far more to extract than the gold is worth. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> What the hell does that have to do with anything? First you bring up >>>>>>> Antartica and then say its irrelevant, and now you do the same with >>>>>>> gold. Nobody on a planet other than Earth is going to give a *shit* >>>>>>> about gold. Unless it relates to survival, everything you?re thinking >>>>>>> about is irrelevant. >>>>>> >>>>>>Pay attention; it was about the economics of going to other places, i.e. >>>>>>getting a return on investment, which was a big motivator for the >>>>>>colonizaton of the Americas. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Weren't you just raving about "freedom from religious persecution"? So >>>>> which is it? >>>>> >>>> >>>>Some of both, but mostly ROI for those that put the colonies together. >>>> >>>>Ever heard of the London Company, established 1606, with the purpose of >>>>establishing colonial settlements in North America? >>>> >>> >>> Sure, but that's not the sort of ROI what you've been raving about. >>> You've been raving about the COLONY ROI, not the organizers' >> >>Most colonies started as part of an organization to make profit. >> > > That was certainly the motive of the folks transporting colonists, but > that's hardly the point OR the objection you've been raising. You mean the point that there is nothing on Mars that you can ship bact to Earth at a profit? >> >>While the Spanish were mostly plundering the English were into furs, >>timber, and various crops. >> >>It wasn't until the profitablity of tobacco was realized the Spanish >>were much into real colonies. >> > > Bullshit. Your denying it does not make it untrue. >>>>>>>> >> There are no forests, no lakes, no rivers, no life and no air. >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > You seem to have more knowledge than NASA on those things. How is that? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> When did NASA announce there are forests, lakes, rivers, life, and >>>>>>>> air anywhere else than Earth? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> You again demonstrate a lack of logical thinking. You set out to prove >>>>>>> a negative; thats *your* burden, not mine. >>>>>> >>>>>>Nope, it is your delusiong there are forests, lakes, rivers, life, and air >>>>>>anywhere other than Earth. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> <yawn> >>>>> >>>>>>> But, of course, it is entirely irrelevant. A moon/planet can be devoid >>>>>>> of those resources and yet still have many other ones to work with. It >>>>>>> just becomes a different problem to solve. Perhaps more complex, from >>>>>>> aet?s see if we can transplant Earthlings there? standpoint, but >>>>>>> there is nothing a priori that says it couldnt be done. >>>>>> >>>>>>Be done is not the same thing as ROI. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Religious persecution is not the same thing as ROI. Care to choose >>>>> one? >>>> >>>>Are you so single minded you can not see the existance of both? >>>> >>> >>> Are you so single minded that you don't know what ROI means even when >>> you rave about it? >> >>Are you so single minded that you don't know that human motivation >>comes in several forms? >> > > You are the one wanking on about 'ROI', not I. In your insistence > that "no one would go", it is seemingly YOU who "don't know that human > motivation comes in several forms". My but you are really confused now, aren't you? Can't handle multiple threads of thought, can you? Perhaps that is why you are a starry eyed space cadet over 10 years old. >>>>>>>> >> something usefull to build the domed and pressurized buildings >>>>>>>> >> required to survive and do anything. >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > If thats how you think about what is *required* to survive, you clearly >>>>>>>> > havent thought much about the problem. These are *your* straw men. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> So you think you can survive on the Moon or Mars without a presurized >>>>>>>> building? Are you going to live in a pressure suit 24/7? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Maybe. The point is to solve the problems that *actually* exist, not >>>>>>> dream up straw men like the need? to builddomed cities. >>>>>> >>>>>>The need to build pressurized work and living areas does exist. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> And is easy. >>>> >>>>And expensive and absolutely needed to survive more than 3 minutes, unlike >>>>anywhere in the Americas. >>>> >>> >>> So what? There's also no Starbuck's. Holy fuck, how will we ever >>> survive? >> >>Likely you couldn't survive without Starbuck's. >> > > Wow, are you stupid! Nope, realistic as you seem to know nothing about the subject of survival. >>>>>>>> It is my opinion that an off Earth true colony would cost far too much >>>>>>>> for anyone to ever try it and few people would be willing to permanently >>>>>>>> move to one. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ?Ever? is a mighty long time. The only real question is *how much* would >>>>>>> it cost at any particular time, and how might those costs be reduced >>>>>>> until it *does* become something that some impossibly stupid billionaire >>>>>>> is willing to try it in order to stake a claim on an entire new world. >>>>>> >>>>>>And do what with it? >>>>>> >>>>>>Spain conquered a big part of the New World for the easily gotten wealth. >>>>>> >>>>>>There is nothing off the Earth valuable enough to turn a profit after >>>>>>acquistion and shipping costs. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Your intellectual myopia is not 'proof'. >>>>> >>>> >>>>Name something then. >>>> >>> >>> Asked and answered. >>> >> >>Nope, always arm waved and avoided with phrases like it should be obvious. >> >>So state the obious. >> > > Mars One is using the 'Kardashian Approach'. They're going to get > their money out with a reality show about the establishment and growth > of the colony. I couldn't tell you the motivation of the 200,000+ > people who applied to go; probably various. So one product would be a TV show. How long do you think it will take viewers to become bored of watching people in a tin can? I guess he could CGI in meteor storms and an alien attack. > Elon Musk thinks he can turn a profit just on transportation costs. So > there's his ROI. Ship them off and screw them; good busines plan. > Despite your own exposition about how "human motivation comes in > several forms", you will now no doubt insist on an ROI FOR THE COLONY > ITSELF and not just for the organizers. I'd like to go on just a bit > about how conflicted your own views here are before I repeat the > answer I gave you before. In your head a colony must be "totally > self-sufficient". If it is, the colony doesn't need to produce an > external ROI; people just live their lives. If it isn't, you insist > it isn't a 'real colony'. When you're caught in cases of colonies > here on Earth that had no 'ROI' for the colonists going in, you come > out with how "human motivation comes in several forms". If there is no ROI from the colony, there is nothing to pay for the constant resupply. > You need to stop spinning around trying to bite yourself in the small > of the back (from the inside), Jim. You have a real definitional > problem and you constantly shift your ground however is convenient for > you to clench your little fists and shout "NO!". > > Now you know whatever I say you're going to pick apart and raise > objections to, because raising obstructions is so much easier than > actually building something. And that's why I hold you in the low > regard I do. I realize your bloated ego keeps you from caring about > that, but I find it funny that I've spent decades designing and > building real things while you've done ... what? > > Now, to answer the question again. Perhaps I can lead you to a > logical conclusion (but I doubt it). What is of value in near Earth > space? Right now it's weather prediction, telecom, and navigation. > The first is sort of a non-starter for Mars, but the other two work > just fine if any work is being done anyplace in the outer system. Fuel > depot (think the old 'coaling station' model). > > If you want to build something big and grandiose, picture mining > asteroids for metals. It doesn't matter that big finds lower the > price. They don't lower it to zero. That mining is supported from > out on Mars (lower transit and transmission delays). Mining ships > could be manned, teleoperated, or any combination. When something is > found, you throw it back at the Moon. Don't need to slow it down too > much. Just let it hit. Then go mine it out from your lunar colony. > Fabricate it into various chunks of infractructure for use in space. > This is easier where there's gravity, the Moon is near Earth where you > mostly want the stuff, and the lunar gravity well isn't that deep. > Smelt the excess down and dump it to earth. Great plan except there is nothing is space of more value than the shipping costs back to Earth no matter how much you arm wave the issue. > We will now see the Jimp the Chimp "instant colony" fallacy, wherein > he will complain about the cost of the FINAL STATE and fail to > recognize that everything builds incrementally and it goes where it > goes. Britain didn't send 330,000,000 people to the US, either... Britain was the only colnizer. People can, and have for thousands of years, lived in the Americas without supply from the outside. People can not live on Mars without resupply from the outside, not even in a hundred of years. -- Jim Pennino
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| From | Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-10 20:44 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <cc6mgbd8snf7grc6jlbqjf72m8oa9lvful@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #569588 |
jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>In sci.physics Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> wrote:
>> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>>
>>>In sci.physics Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>In sci.physics Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>In sci.physics Doc O'Leary <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> For your reference, records indicate that
>>>>>>>> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I use economic thinking.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Think about thinking more rationally. Think about thinking about
>>>>>>>> not finance and banking, but survival.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>And it will take a LOT of finance to get to and survive on Mars.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Musk thinks he can make it work at $500,000 per colonist and include a
>>>>>> free trip back to Earth for those who decide it's not their cup of
>>>>>> tea. There are a lot of people who can afford that. Hell, *I* can
>>>>>> afford that.
>>>>>
>>>>>So can I and the wife.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sure you can.
>>>
>>>Not a problem. I would have to forgo getting a new airplane, but you
>>>can't fly airplanes on Mars.
>>>
>>
>> No individual would want their own airplane. No ROI, after all.
>>
>
>Individual ownership of luxury items doesn't have anything to do with ROI,
>space cadet fool.
>
But that famous raconteur, chimpshit, insists that it's all about ROI.
>
>>>>>However if I were to tell her we were going to to live on Mars, the
>>>>>best I could expect is a divorce as opposed to being shot.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> So she doesn't love you after all. I'm sorry for you.
>>>
>>>Nope, she just isn't insane.
>>>
>>
>> Evidence is that she is, since she married you.
>>
>
>Fuck off and die, space cadet fool.
>
Come make me, chimpshit drooler.
>>>>>>>>> It is well known that there is lots of gold in sea water but it costs
>>>>>>>>> far more to extract than the gold is worth.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What the hell does that have to do with anything? First you bring up
>>>>>>>> Antartica and then say its irrelevant, and now you do the same with
>>>>>>>> gold. Nobody on a planet other than Earth is going to give a *shit*
>>>>>>>> about gold. Unless it relates to survival, everything you?re thinking
>>>>>>>> about is irrelevant.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Pay attention; it was about the economics of going to other places, i.e.
>>>>>>>getting a return on investment, which was a big motivator for the
>>>>>>>colonizaton of the Americas.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Weren't you just raving about "freedom from religious persecution"? So
>>>>>> which is it?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Some of both, but mostly ROI for those that put the colonies together.
>>>>>
>>>>>Ever heard of the London Company, established 1606, with the purpose of
>>>>>establishing colonial settlements in North America?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sure, but that's not the sort of ROI what you've been raving about.
>>>> You've been raving about the COLONY ROI, not the organizers'
>>>
>>>Most colonies started as part of an organization to make profit.
>>>
>>
>> That was certainly the motive of the folks transporting colonists, but
>> that's hardly the point OR the objection you've been raising.
>>
>
>You mean the point that there is nothing on Mars that you can ship bact
>to Earth at a profit?
>
Have you looked at the debt status of the colonies here on Earth?
Apparently there was nothing on Earth that you can ship from a colony
at a profit, either.
>>>
>>>While the Spanish were mostly plundering the English were into furs,
>>>timber, and various crops.
>>>
>>>It wasn't until the profitablity of tobacco was realized the Spanish
>>>were much into real colonies.
>>>
>>
>> Bullshit.
>>
>
>Your denying it does not make it untrue.
>
No, it being bullshit makes it untrue.
>>>>>>>>> >> There are no forests, no lakes, no rivers, no life and no air.
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> > You seem to have more knowledge than NASA on those things. How is that?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> When did NASA announce there are forests, lakes, rivers, life, and
>>>>>>>>> air anywhere else than Earth?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You again demonstrate a lack of logical thinking. You set out to prove
>>>>>>>> a negative; thats *your* burden, not mine.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Nope, it is your delusiong there are forests, lakes, rivers, life, and air
>>>>>>>anywhere other than Earth.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <yawn>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But, of course, it is entirely irrelevant. A moon/planet can be devoid
>>>>>>>> of those resources and yet still have many other ones to work with. It
>>>>>>>> just becomes a different problem to solve. Perhaps more complex, from
>>>>>>>> aet?s see if we can transplant Earthlings there? standpoint, but
>>>>>>>> there is nothing a priori that says it couldnt be done.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Be done is not the same thing as ROI.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Religious persecution is not the same thing as ROI. Care to choose
>>>>>> one?
>>>>>
>>>>>Are you so single minded you can not see the existance of both?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Are you so single minded that you don't know what ROI means even when
>>>> you rave about it?
>>>
>>>Are you so single minded that you don't know that human motivation
>>>comes in several forms?
>>>
>>
>> You are the one wanking on about 'ROI', not I. In your insistence
>> that "no one would go", it is seemingly YOU who "don't know that human
>> motivation comes in several forms".
>>
>
>My but you are really confused now, aren't you?
>
Not particularly. You're a whirling asshole who acts like a two year
old. Pretty consistent, so no confusion at all.
>
>Can't handle multiple threads of thought, can you?
>
Can't handle a single thread of thought, can you?
>
>Perhaps that is why you are a starry eyed space cadet over 10 years old.
>
Perhaps that is why you are a drooling bit of chimpshit for as long as
I can remember.
>>>>>>>>> >> something usefull to build the domed and pressurized buildings
>>>>>>>>> >> required to survive and do anything.
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> > If thats how you think about what is *required* to survive, you clearly
>>>>>>>>> > havent thought much about the problem. These are *your* straw men.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So you think you can survive on the Moon or Mars without a presurized
>>>>>>>>> building? Are you going to live in a pressure suit 24/7?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Maybe. The point is to solve the problems that *actually* exist, not
>>>>>>>> dream up straw men like the need? to builddomed cities.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>The need to build pressurized work and living areas does exist.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And is easy.
>>>>>
>>>>>And expensive and absolutely needed to survive more than 3 minutes, unlike
>>>>>anywhere in the Americas.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> So what? There's also no Starbuck's. Holy fuck, how will we ever
>>>> survive?
>>>
>>>Likely you couldn't survive without Starbuck's.
>>>
>>
>> Wow, are you stupid!
>>
>
>Nope, realistic as you seem to know nothing about the subject of survival.
>
You? REALISTIC?? Put down the crack pipe, chimpshit.
>>>>>>>>> It is my opinion that an off Earth true colony would cost far too much
>>>>>>>>> for anyone to ever try it and few people would be willing to permanently
>>>>>>>>> move to one.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ?Ever? is a mighty long time. The only real question is *how much* would
>>>>>>>> it cost at any particular time, and how might those costs be reduced
>>>>>>>> until it *does* become something that some impossibly stupid billionaire
>>>>>>>> is willing to try it in order to stake a claim on an entire new world.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>And do what with it?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Spain conquered a big part of the New World for the easily gotten wealth.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>There is nothing off the Earth valuable enough to turn a profit after
>>>>>>>acquistion and shipping costs.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Your intellectual myopia is not 'proof'.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Name something then.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Asked and answered.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Nope, always arm waved and avoided with phrases like it should be obvious.
>>>
>>>So state the obious.
>>>
>>
>> Mars One is using the 'Kardashian Approach'. They're going to get
>> their money out with a reality show about the establishment and growth
>> of the colony. I couldn't tell you the motivation of the 200,000+
>> people who applied to go; probably various.
>
>So one product would be a TV show.
>
>How long do you think it will take viewers to become bored of watching
>people in a tin can?
>
How long have they watched make believe tribes on islands? How long
have they watched the Kardashians? How long have they watched all the
other shite?
>
>I guess he could CGI in meteor storms and an alien attack.
>
Only if he was as intellectually dishonest as you, which I consider
pretty unlikely.
>> Elon Musk thinks he can turn a profit just on transportation costs. So
>> there's his ROI.
>
>Ship them off and screw them; good busines plan.
>
Wrong. Wow, you don't have an honest bone anywhere in your body, do
you?
>> Despite your own exposition about how "human motivation comes in
>> several forms", you will now no doubt insist on an ROI FOR THE COLONY
>> ITSELF and not just for the organizers. I'd like to go on just a bit
>> about how conflicted your own views here are before I repeat the
>> answer I gave you before. In your head a colony must be "totally
>> self-sufficient". If it is, the colony doesn't need to produce an
>> external ROI; people just live their lives. If it isn't, you insist
>> it isn't a 'real colony'. When you're caught in cases of colonies
>> here on Earth that had no 'ROI' for the colonists going in, you come
>> out with how "human motivation comes in several forms".
>
>If there is no ROI from the colony, there is nothing to pay for the
>constant resupply.
>
I suggest you look up the debt status of most colonies down here. The
original 13 colonies were all massively in debt because they imported
so much.
>> You need to stop spinning around trying to bite yourself in the small
>> of the back (from the inside), Jim. You have a real definitional
>> problem and you constantly shift your ground however is convenient for
>> you to clench your little fists and shout "NO!".
>>
>> Now you know whatever I say you're going to pick apart and raise
>> objections to, because raising obstructions is so much easier than
>> actually building something. And that's why I hold you in the low
>> regard I do. I realize your bloated ego keeps you from caring about
>> that, but I find it funny that I've spent decades designing and
>> building real things while you've done ... what?
>>
>> Now, to answer the question again. Perhaps I can lead you to a
>> logical conclusion (but I doubt it). What is of value in near Earth
>> space? Right now it's weather prediction, telecom, and navigation.
>> The first is sort of a non-starter for Mars, but the other two work
>> just fine if any work is being done anyplace in the outer system. Fuel
>> depot (think the old 'coaling station' model).
>>
>> If you want to build something big and grandiose, picture mining
>> asteroids for metals. It doesn't matter that big finds lower the
>> price. They don't lower it to zero. That mining is supported from
>> out on Mars (lower transit and transmission delays). Mining ships
>> could be manned, teleoperated, or any combination. When something is
>> found, you throw it back at the Moon. Don't need to slow it down too
>> much. Just let it hit. Then go mine it out from your lunar colony.
>> Fabricate it into various chunks of infractructure for use in space.
>> This is easier where there's gravity, the Moon is near Earth where you
>> mostly want the stuff, and the lunar gravity well isn't that deep.
>> Smelt the excess down and dump it to earth.
>
>Great plan except there is nothing is space of more value than the
>shipping costs back to Earth no matter how much you arm wave the
>issue.
>
'Shipping costs back to Earth'? You think someone is charging for
gravity now?
>> We will now see the Jimp the Chimp "instant colony" fallacy, wherein
>> he will complain about the cost of the FINAL STATE and fail to
>> recognize that everything builds incrementally and it goes where it
>> goes. Britain didn't send 330,000,000 people to the US, either...
>
>Britain was the only colnizer.
>
So now you're done spewing shite about Spain, tobacco, and South
America?
>
>People can, and have for thousands of years, lived in the Americas
>without supply from the outside.
>
At bare survival levels, mostly.
>
>People can not live on Mars without resupply from the outside, not
>even in a hundred of years.
>
Of course they can. All you have to do is prime it.
--
"Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the
truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong."
-- Thomas Jefferson
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| From | jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-11 06:35 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <e7trtc-mgs.ln1@mail.specsol.com> |
| In reply to | #569608 |
In sci.physics Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> wrote: > jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: > >>In sci.physics Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> wrote: >>> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: >>> >>>>In sci.physics Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>In sci.physics Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>In sci.physics Doc O'Leary <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> For your reference, records indicate that >>>>>>>>> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I use economic thinking. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Think about thinking more rationally. Think about thinking about >>>>>>>>> not finance and banking, but survival. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>And it will take a LOT of finance to get to and survive on Mars. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Musk thinks he can make it work at $500,000 per colonist and include a >>>>>>> free trip back to Earth for those who decide it's not their cup of >>>>>>> tea. There are a lot of people who can afford that. Hell, *I* can >>>>>>> afford that. >>>>>> >>>>>>So can I and the wife. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Sure you can. >>>> >>>>Not a problem. I would have to forgo getting a new airplane, but you >>>>can't fly airplanes on Mars. >>>> >>> >>> No individual would want their own airplane. No ROI, after all. >>> >> >>Individual ownership of luxury items doesn't have anything to do with ROI, >>space cadet fool. >> > > But that famous raconteur, chimpshit, insists that it's all about ROI. No, blindered space cadet. Business is all about ROI, space cadet. This goes along with you being unable to understand some people came to the Americas just to get away from Europe and live their lives on a farm, some came for business reasons and some came to spread the word of God. And there were yet more reasons. >>>>>>However if I were to tell her we were going to to live on Mars, the >>>>>>best I could expect is a divorce as opposed to being shot. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> So she doesn't love you after all. I'm sorry for you. >>>> >>>>Nope, she just isn't insane. >>>> >>> >>> Evidence is that she is, since she married you. >>> >> >>Fuck off and die, space cadet fool. >> > > Come make me, chimpshit drooler. Not worth the effort to cross the street and spit on, space cadet. > >>>>>>>>>> It is well known that there is lots of gold in sea water but it costs >>>>>>>>>> far more to extract than the gold is worth. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> What the hell does that have to do with anything? First you bring up >>>>>>>>> Antartica and then say its irrelevant, and now you do the same with >>>>>>>>> gold. Nobody on a planet other than Earth is going to give a *shit* >>>>>>>>> about gold. Unless it relates to survival, everything you?re thinking >>>>>>>>> about is irrelevant. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Pay attention; it was about the economics of going to other places, i.e. >>>>>>>>getting a return on investment, which was a big motivator for the >>>>>>>>colonizaton of the Americas. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Weren't you just raving about "freedom from religious persecution"? So >>>>>>> which is it? >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Some of both, but mostly ROI for those that put the colonies together. >>>>>> >>>>>>Ever heard of the London Company, established 1606, with the purpose of >>>>>>establishing colonial settlements in North America? >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Sure, but that's not the sort of ROI what you've been raving about. >>>>> You've been raving about the COLONY ROI, not the organizers' >>>> >>>>Most colonies started as part of an organization to make profit. >>>> >>> >>> That was certainly the motive of the folks transporting colonists, but >>> that's hardly the point OR the objection you've been raising. >>> >> >>You mean the point that there is nothing on Mars that you can ship bact >>to Earth at a profit? >> > > Have you looked at the debt status of the colonies here on Earth? > Apparently there was nothing on Earth that you can ship from a colony > at a profit, either. Funny that lots of fortunes were made off shipping stuff from the Americas, space cadet. >>>> >>>>While the Spanish were mostly plundering the English were into furs, >>>>timber, and various crops. >>>> >>>>It wasn't until the profitablity of tobacco was realized the Spanish >>>>were much into real colonies. >>>> >>> >>> Bullshit. >>> >> >>Your denying it does not make it untrue. >> > > No, it being bullshit makes it untrue. You real need to read some history for comprhension, space cadet. >>>>>>>>>> >> There are no forests, no lakes, no rivers, no life and no air. >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > You seem to have more knowledge than NASA on those things. How is that? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> When did NASA announce there are forests, lakes, rivers, life, and >>>>>>>>>> air anywhere else than Earth? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> You again demonstrate a lack of logical thinking. You set out to prove >>>>>>>>> a negative; thats *your* burden, not mine. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Nope, it is your delusiong there are forests, lakes, rivers, life, and air >>>>>>>>anywhere other than Earth. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> <yawn> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> But, of course, it is entirely irrelevant. A moon/planet can be devoid >>>>>>>>> of those resources and yet still have many other ones to work with. It >>>>>>>>> just becomes a different problem to solve. Perhaps more complex, from >>>>>>>>> aet?s see if we can transplant Earthlings there? standpoint, but >>>>>>>>> there is nothing a priori that says it couldnt be done. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Be done is not the same thing as ROI. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Religious persecution is not the same thing as ROI. Care to choose >>>>>>> one? >>>>>> >>>>>>Are you so single minded you can not see the existance of both? >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Are you so single minded that you don't know what ROI means even when >>>>> you rave about it? >>>> >>>>Are you so single minded that you don't know that human motivation >>>>comes in several forms? >>>> >>> >>> You are the one wanking on about 'ROI', not I. In your insistence >>> that "no one would go", it is seemingly YOU who "don't know that human >>> motivation comes in several forms". >>> >> >>My but you are really confused now, aren't you? >> > > Not particularly. You're a whirling asshole who acts like a two year > old. Pretty consistent, so no confusion at all. Still in the blindered state not understanding ROI is a business term, space cadet? > >> >>Can't handle multiple threads of thought, can you? >> > > Can't handle a single thread of thought, can you? > >> >>Perhaps that is why you are a starry eyed space cadet over 10 years old. >> > > Perhaps that is why you are a drooling bit of chimpshit for as long as > I can remember. Fuck off and die, space cadet. >>>>>>>>>> >> something usefull to build the domed and pressurized buildings >>>>>>>>>> >> required to survive and do anything. >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > If thats how you think about what is *required* to survive, you clearly >>>>>>>>>> > havent thought much about the problem. These are *your* straw men. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> So you think you can survive on the Moon or Mars without a presurized >>>>>>>>>> building? Are you going to live in a pressure suit 24/7? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Maybe. The point is to solve the problems that *actually* exist, not >>>>>>>>> dream up straw men like the need? to builddomed cities. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>The need to build pressurized work and living areas does exist. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> And is easy. >>>>>> >>>>>>And expensive and absolutely needed to survive more than 3 minutes, unlike >>>>>>anywhere in the Americas. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> So what? There's also no Starbuck's. Holy fuck, how will we ever >>>>> survive? >>>> >>>>Likely you couldn't survive without Starbuck's. >>>> >>> >>> Wow, are you stupid! >>> >> >>Nope, realistic as you seem to know nothing about the subject of survival. >> > > You? REALISTIC?? Put down the crack pipe, chimpshit. Yep, ever taken a survival course of any kind, space cadet? Ever had any training on the logistics of keeping people alive in a remote location, space cadet? >>>>>>>>>> It is my opinion that an off Earth true colony would cost far too much >>>>>>>>>> for anyone to ever try it and few people would be willing to permanently >>>>>>>>>> move to one. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ?Ever? is a mighty long time. The only real question is *how much* would >>>>>>>>> it cost at any particular time, and how might those costs be reduced >>>>>>>>> until it *does* become something that some impossibly stupid billionaire >>>>>>>>> is willing to try it in order to stake a claim on an entire new world. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>And do what with it? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Spain conquered a big part of the New World for the easily gotten wealth. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>There is nothing off the Earth valuable enough to turn a profit after >>>>>>>>acquistion and shipping costs. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Your intellectual myopia is not 'proof'. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Name something then. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Asked and answered. >>>>> >>>> >>>>Nope, always arm waved and avoided with phrases like it should be obvious. >>>> >>>>So state the obious. >>>> >>> >>> Mars One is using the 'Kardashian Approach'. They're going to get >>> their money out with a reality show about the establishment and growth >>> of the colony. I couldn't tell you the motivation of the 200,000+ >>> people who applied to go; probably various. >> >>So one product would be a TV show. >> >>How long do you think it will take viewers to become bored of watching >>people in a tin can? >> > > How long have they watched make believe tribes on islands? How long > have they watched the Kardashians? How long have they watched all the > other shite? Typically a few years or so before being replace by a different one, space cadet. >>I guess he could CGI in meteor storms and an alien attack. >> > > Only if he was as intellectually dishonest as you, which I consider > pretty unlikely. He will need to be to keep a viewership, space cadet. Lots of people watched the 1st Moon landing. How many watched the third one, space cadet? > >>> Elon Musk thinks he can turn a profit just on transportation costs. So >>> there's his ROI. >> >>Ship them off and screw them; good busines plan. >> > > Wrong. Wow, you don't have an honest bone anywhere in your body, do > you? So where is the benefit to those shipped off, space cadet? Will they get residuals from the TV show? >>> Despite your own exposition about how "human motivation comes in >>> several forms", you will now no doubt insist on an ROI FOR THE COLONY >>> ITSELF and not just for the organizers. I'd like to go on just a bit >>> about how conflicted your own views here are before I repeat the >>> answer I gave you before. In your head a colony must be "totally >>> self-sufficient". If it is, the colony doesn't need to produce an >>> external ROI; people just live their lives. If it isn't, you insist >>> it isn't a 'real colony'. When you're caught in cases of colonies >>> here on Earth that had no 'ROI' for the colonists going in, you come >>> out with how "human motivation comes in several forms". >> >>If there is no ROI from the colony, there is nothing to pay for the >>constant resupply. >> > > I suggest you look up the debt status of most colonies down here. The > original 13 colonies were all massively in debt because they imported > so much. The revolutions took care of that, space cadet, and that was for the colonies that were established to be a business, which not all colonies were. >>> You need to stop spinning around trying to bite yourself in the small >>> of the back (from the inside), Jim. You have a real definitional >>> problem and you constantly shift your ground however is convenient for >>> you to clench your little fists and shout "NO!". >>> >>> Now you know whatever I say you're going to pick apart and raise >>> objections to, because raising obstructions is so much easier than >>> actually building something. And that's why I hold you in the low >>> regard I do. I realize your bloated ego keeps you from caring about >>> that, but I find it funny that I've spent decades designing and >>> building real things while you've done ... what? >>> >>> Now, to answer the question again. Perhaps I can lead you to a >>> logical conclusion (but I doubt it). What is of value in near Earth >>> space? Right now it's weather prediction, telecom, and navigation. >>> The first is sort of a non-starter for Mars, but the other two work >>> just fine if any work is being done anyplace in the outer system. Fuel >>> depot (think the old 'coaling station' model). >>> >>> If you want to build something big and grandiose, picture mining >>> asteroids for metals. It doesn't matter that big finds lower the >>> price. They don't lower it to zero. That mining is supported from >>> out on Mars (lower transit and transmission delays). Mining ships >>> could be manned, teleoperated, or any combination. When something is >>> found, you throw it back at the Moon. Don't need to slow it down too >>> much. Just let it hit. Then go mine it out from your lunar colony. >>> Fabricate it into various chunks of infractructure for use in space. >>> This is easier where there's gravity, the Moon is near Earth where you >>> mostly want the stuff, and the lunar gravity well isn't that deep. >>> Smelt the excess down and dump it to earth. >> >>Great plan except there is nothing is space of more value than the >>shipping costs back to Earth no matter how much you arm wave the >>issue. >> > > 'Shipping costs back to Earth'? You think someone is charging for > gravity now? I don't think you can just let go of something on Mars and have it fall back to Earth in one piece, space cadet. >>> We will now see the Jimp the Chimp "instant colony" fallacy, wherein >>> he will complain about the cost of the FINAL STATE and fail to >>> recognize that everything builds incrementally and it goes where it >>> goes. Britain didn't send 330,000,000 people to the US, either... >> >>Britain was the only colnizer. >> > > So now you're done spewing shite about Spain, tobacco, and South > America? Typo, should read: Britain wasn't the only colonizer. >> >>People can, and have for thousands of years, lived in the Americas >>without supply from the outside. >> > > At bare survival levels, mostly. Incas and Mayans? It took Spain huge armys and payed for local help to conquer them. There were millions of people in the Americas before the Europeans killed the vast majority of them with European diseases. >>People can not live on Mars without resupply from the outside, not >>even in a hundred of years. >> > > Of course they can. All you have to do is prime it. Prime it with what, enough ice comets to create oceans, space cadet? -- Jim Pennino
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-11 08:11 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <iqdngbhvohpcrrgha9okd63simtin0nthm@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #569680 |
jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>In sci.physics Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> wrote:
>> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>>
>>>In sci.physics Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>In sci.physics Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>In sci.physics Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>In sci.physics Doc O'Leary <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> For your reference, records indicate that
>>>>>>>>>> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I use economic thinking.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Think about thinking more rationally. Think about thinking about
>>>>>>>>>> not finance and banking, but survival.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>And it will take a LOT of finance to get to and survive on Mars.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Musk thinks he can make it work at $500,000 per colonist and include a
>>>>>>>> free trip back to Earth for those who decide it's not their cup of
>>>>>>>> tea. There are a lot of people who can afford that. Hell, *I* can
>>>>>>>> afford that.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>So can I and the wife.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sure you can.
>>>>>
>>>>>Not a problem. I would have to forgo getting a new airplane, but you
>>>>>can't fly airplanes on Mars.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> No individual would want their own airplane. No ROI, after all.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Individual ownership of luxury items doesn't have anything to do with ROI,
>>>space cadet fool.
>>>
>>
>> But that famous raconteur, chimpshit, insists that it's all about ROI.
>
>No, blindered space cadet.
>
Yes, lying chimpshit.
>
>Business is all about ROI, space cadet.
>
So what?
>
>This goes along with you being unable to understand some people came
>to the Americas just to get away from Europe and live their lives on
>a farm, some came for business reasons and some came to spread the
>word of God. And there were yet more reasons.
>
So they didn't come for ROI at all, despite your earlier puling.
>
>>>>>>>However if I were to tell her we were going to to live on Mars, the
>>>>>>>best I could expect is a divorce as opposed to being shot.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So she doesn't love you after all. I'm sorry for you.
>>>>>
>>>>>Nope, she just isn't insane.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Evidence is that she is, since she married you.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Fuck off and die, space cadet fool.
>>>
>>
>> Come make me, chimpshit drooler.
>
>Not worth the effort to cross the street and spit on, space cadet.
>
Coward, chimpshit. Like so many worthless internet piles, you're
brave as hell at the end of a wire...
>>
>>>>>>>>>>> It is well known that there is lots of gold in sea water but it costs
>>>>>>>>>>> far more to extract than the gold is worth.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> What the hell does that have to do with anything? First you bring up
>>>>>>>>>> Antartica and then say its irrelevant, and now you do the same with
>>>>>>>>>> gold. Nobody on a planet other than Earth is going to give a *shit*
>>>>>>>>>> about gold. Unless it relates to survival, everything you?re thinking
>>>>>>>>>> about is irrelevant.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Pay attention; it was about the economics of going to other places, i.e.
>>>>>>>>>getting a return on investment, which was a big motivator for the
>>>>>>>>>colonizaton of the Americas.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Weren't you just raving about "freedom from religious persecution"? So
>>>>>>>> which is it?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Some of both, but mostly ROI for those that put the colonies together.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Ever heard of the London Company, established 1606, with the purpose of
>>>>>>>establishing colonial settlements in North America?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sure, but that's not the sort of ROI what you've been raving about.
>>>>>> You've been raving about the COLONY ROI, not the organizers'
>>>>>
>>>>>Most colonies started as part of an organization to make profit.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That was certainly the motive of the folks transporting colonists, but
>>>> that's hardly the point OR the objection you've been raising.
>>>>
>>>
>>>You mean the point that there is nothing on Mars that you can ship bact
>>>to Earth at a profit?
>>>
>>
>> Have you looked at the debt status of the colonies here on Earth?
>> Apparently there was nothing on Earth that you can ship from a colony
>> at a profit, either.
>
>Funny that lots of fortunes were made off shipping stuff from the Americas,
>space cadet.
>
But mostly from shipping stuff back, chimpshit. So now colonization
is all about the SHIPPERS making money?
>>>>>
>>>>>While the Spanish were mostly plundering the English were into furs,
>>>>>timber, and various crops.
>>>>>
>>>>>It wasn't until the profitablity of tobacco was realized the Spanish
>>>>>were much into real colonies.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Bullshit.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Your denying it does not make it untrue.
>>>
>>
>> No, it being bullshit makes it untrue.
>
>You real need to read some history for comprhension, space cadet.
>
You real need to read ANYTHING for comprhension, chimpshit.
>>>>>>>>>>> >> There are no forests, no lakes, no rivers, no life and no air.
>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>> > You seem to have more knowledge than NASA on those things. How is that?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> When did NASA announce there are forests, lakes, rivers, life, and
>>>>>>>>>>> air anywhere else than Earth?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You again demonstrate a lack of logical thinking. You set out to prove
>>>>>>>>>> a negative; thats *your* burden, not mine.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Nope, it is your delusiong there are forests, lakes, rivers, life, and air
>>>>>>>>>anywhere other than Earth.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <yawn>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> But, of course, it is entirely irrelevant. A moon/planet can be devoid
>>>>>>>>>> of those resources and yet still have many other ones to work with. It
>>>>>>>>>> just becomes a different problem to solve. Perhaps more complex, from
>>>>>>>>>> aet?s see if we can transplant Earthlings there? standpoint, but
>>>>>>>>>> there is nothing a priori that says it couldnt be done.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Be done is not the same thing as ROI.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Religious persecution is not the same thing as ROI. Care to choose
>>>>>>>> one?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Are you so single minded you can not see the existance of both?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Are you so single minded that you don't know what ROI means even when
>>>>>> you rave about it?
>>>>>
>>>>>Are you so single minded that you don't know that human motivation
>>>>>comes in several forms?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You are the one wanking on about 'ROI', not I. In your insistence
>>>> that "no one would go", it is seemingly YOU who "don't know that human
>>>> motivation comes in several forms".
>>>>
>>>
>>>My but you are really confused now, aren't you?
>>>
>>
>> Not particularly. You're a whirling asshole who acts like a two year
>> old. Pretty consistent, so no confusion at all.
>>
>
>Still in the blindered state not understanding ROI is a business term,
>space cadet?
>
Still in the blindered state of your head firmly up your ass, lying
chimpshit?
>
>>
>>>
>>>Can't handle multiple threads of thought, can you?
>>>
>>
>> Can't handle a single thread of thought, can you?
>>
>>>
>>>Perhaps that is why you are a starry eyed space cadet over 10 years old.
>>>
>>
>> Perhaps that is why you are a drooling bit of chimpshit for as long as
>> I can remember.
>
>Fuck off and die, space cadet.
>
Come make me, chimpshit.
>>>>>>>>>>> >> something usefull to build the domed and pressurized buildings
>>>>>>>>>>> >> required to survive and do anything.
>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>> > If thats how you think about what is *required* to survive, you clearly
>>>>>>>>>>> > havent thought much about the problem. These are *your* straw men.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> So you think you can survive on the Moon or Mars without a presurized
>>>>>>>>>>> building? Are you going to live in a pressure suit 24/7?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Maybe. The point is to solve the problems that *actually* exist, not
>>>>>>>>>> dream up straw men like the need? to builddomed cities.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>The need to build pressurized work and living areas does exist.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And is easy.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>And expensive and absolutely needed to survive more than 3 minutes, unlike
>>>>>>>anywhere in the Americas.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So what? There's also no Starbuck's. Holy fuck, how will we ever
>>>>>> survive?
>>>>>
>>>>>Likely you couldn't survive without Starbuck's.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Wow, are you stupid!
>>>>
>>>
>>>Nope, realistic as you seem to know nothing about the subject of survival.
>>>
>>
>> You? REALISTIC?? Put down the crack pipe, chimpshit.
>
>Yep, ever taken a survival course of any kind, space cadet?
>
>Ever had any training on the logistics of keeping people alive in a
>remote location, space cadet?
>
Have you, chimpshit? I was more in the business of making people die
in remote locations.
>>>>>>>>>>> It is my opinion that an off Earth true colony would cost far too much
>>>>>>>>>>> for anyone to ever try it and few people would be willing to permanently
>>>>>>>>>>> move to one.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ?Ever? is a mighty long time. The only real question is *how much* would
>>>>>>>>>> it cost at any particular time, and how might those costs be reduced
>>>>>>>>>> until it *does* become something that some impossibly stupid billionaire
>>>>>>>>>> is willing to try it in order to stake a claim on an entire new world.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>And do what with it?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Spain conquered a big part of the New World for the easily gotten wealth.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>There is nothing off the Earth valuable enough to turn a profit after
>>>>>>>>>acquistion and shipping costs.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Your intellectual myopia is not 'proof'.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Name something then.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Asked and answered.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Nope, always arm waved and avoided with phrases like it should be obvious.
>>>>>
>>>>>So state the obious.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Mars One is using the 'Kardashian Approach'. They're going to get
>>>> their money out with a reality show about the establishment and growth
>>>> of the colony. I couldn't tell you the motivation of the 200,000+
>>>> people who applied to go; probably various.
>>>
>>>So one product would be a TV show.
>>>
>>>How long do you think it will take viewers to become bored of watching
>>>people in a tin can?
>>>
>>
>> How long have they watched make believe tribes on islands? How long
>> have they watched the Kardashians? How long have they watched all the
>> other shite?
>>
>
>Typically a few years or so before being replace by a different one,
>space cadet.
>
It's really quite funny you saying that. Talk about pig ignorant...
>>>I guess he could CGI in meteor storms and an alien attack.
>>>
>>
>> Only if he was as intellectually dishonest as you, which I consider
>> pretty unlikely.
>>
>
>He will need to be to keep a viewership, space cadet.
>
Bullshit, chimpshit.
>
>Lots of people watched the 1st Moon landing. How many watched the
>third one, space cadet?
>
Irrelevant, since they weren't being run as a reality show, chimpshit.
>
>>
>>>> Elon Musk thinks he can turn a profit just on transportation costs. So
>>>> there's his ROI.
>>>
>>>Ship them off and screw them; good busines plan.
>>>
>>
>> Wrong. Wow, you don't have an honest bone anywhere in your body, do
>> you?
>>
>
>So where is the benefit to those shipped off, space cadet?
>
You'd have to ask the 200,000+ who volunteered, chimpshit. Reality
has rather neatly exploded your idiotic position that no one would
ever volunteer for such a trip.
>
>Will they get residuals from the TV show?
>
Ask them.
>>>> Despite your own exposition about how "human motivation comes in
>>>> several forms", you will now no doubt insist on an ROI FOR THE COLONY
>>>> ITSELF and not just for the organizers. I'd like to go on just a bit
>>>> about how conflicted your own views here are before I repeat the
>>>> answer I gave you before. In your head a colony must be "totally
>>>> self-sufficient". If it is, the colony doesn't need to produce an
>>>> external ROI; people just live their lives. If it isn't, you insist
>>>> it isn't a 'real colony'. When you're caught in cases of colonies
>>>> here on Earth that had no 'ROI' for the colonists going in, you come
>>>> out with how "human motivation comes in several forms".
>>>
>>>If there is no ROI from the colony, there is nothing to pay for the
>>>constant resupply.
>>>
>>
>> I suggest you look up the debt status of most colonies down here. The
>> original 13 colonies were all massively in debt because they imported
>> so much.
>>
>
>The revolutions took care of that, space cadet, and that was for the
>colonies that were established to be a business, which not all colonies
>were.
>
So your position is that colonies become 'profitable' by defaulting
and shooting at those they owe money to? Yeah, that sounds like
something you'd believe.
>>>> You need to stop spinning around trying to bite yourself in the small
>>>> of the back (from the inside), Jim. You have a real definitional
>>>> problem and you constantly shift your ground however is convenient for
>>>> you to clench your little fists and shout "NO!".
>>>>
>>>> Now you know whatever I say you're going to pick apart and raise
>>>> objections to, because raising obstructions is so much easier than
>>>> actually building something. And that's why I hold you in the low
>>>> regard I do. I realize your bloated ego keeps you from caring about
>>>> that, but I find it funny that I've spent decades designing and
>>>> building real things while you've done ... what?
>>>>
>>>> Now, to answer the question again. Perhaps I can lead you to a
>>>> logical conclusion (but I doubt it). What is of value in near Earth
>>>> space? Right now it's weather prediction, telecom, and navigation.
>>>> The first is sort of a non-starter for Mars, but the other two work
>>>> just fine if any work is being done anyplace in the outer system. Fuel
>>>> depot (think the old 'coaling station' model).
>>>>
>>>> If you want to build something big and grandiose, picture mining
>>>> asteroids for metals. It doesn't matter that big finds lower the
>>>> price. They don't lower it to zero. That mining is supported from
>>>> out on Mars (lower transit and transmission delays). Mining ships
>>>> could be manned, teleoperated, or any combination. When something is
>>>> found, you throw it back at the Moon. Don't need to slow it down too
>>>> much. Just let it hit. Then go mine it out from your lunar colony.
>>>> Fabricate it into various chunks of infractructure for use in space.
>>>> This is easier where there's gravity, the Moon is near Earth where you
>>>> mostly want the stuff, and the lunar gravity well isn't that deep.
>>>> Smelt the excess down and dump it to earth.
>>>
>>>Great plan except there is nothing is space of more value than the
>>>shipping costs back to Earth no matter how much you arm wave the
>>>issue.
>>>
>>
>> 'Shipping costs back to Earth'? You think someone is charging for
>> gravity now?
>>
>
>I don't think you can just let go of something on Mars and have it
>fall back to Earth in one piece, space cadet.
>
And you think a little shove with a solid rocket motor costs what,
chimpshit? Gravity does practically all the work. I'm sorry you're
stupid, chimpshit.
>>>> We will now see the Jimp the Chimp "instant colony" fallacy, wherein
>>>> he will complain about the cost of the FINAL STATE and fail to
>>>> recognize that everything builds incrementally and it goes where it
>>>> goes. Britain didn't send 330,000,000 people to the US, either...
>>>
>>>Britain was the only colnizer.
>>>
>>
>> So now you're done spewing shite about Spain, tobacco, and South
>> America?
>>
>
>Typo, should read: Britain wasn't the only colonizer.
>
If only it was possible to tell which of your remarks are typos and
which are merely your usual self-serving stupidity...
>>>
>>>People can, and have for thousands of years, lived in the Americas
>>>without supply from the outside.
>>>
>>
>> At bare survival levels, mostly.
>
>Incas and Mayans?
>
After how many thousand years to organize? But colonies must be
'instant' according to you, chimp. ROI and all that.
>
>It took Spain huge armys and payed for local help to conquer them.
>
No. Again your history is deficient. Cortez took down the Aztec
Empire with 630 people, including women, slaves, and ships' crews. No
"vast army" at all. In fact, when the histories are examined, NONE of
Cortez' expedition are referred to as 'soldiers'.
Pizaro conquered the Aztecs with an even smaller force; 163 soldiers.
Again, no "vast army" at all.
>
>There were millions of people in the Americas before the Europeans
>killed the vast majority of them with European diseases.
>
And almost all of them were living at a subsistence level and barely
surviving, even within the two empires you mention.
>>>People can not live on Mars without resupply from the outside, not
>>>even in a hundred of years.
>>>
>>
>> Of course they can. All you have to do is prime it.
>>
>
>Prime it with what, enough ice comets to create oceans, space cadet?
>
The same way Earth colonies were 'primed' with things like spinning
wheels, axes, and plows, dishonest chimpshit. You bring power and
supplies to get started and last a while. Then you build shit. Wow,
what a concept. Obviously much too obscure for a fine mind like yours
to figure out.
--
"Ordinarily he is insane. But he has lucid moments when he is
only stupid."
-- Heinrich Heine
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| From | jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-11 19:05 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <t39ttc-714.ln1@mail.specsol.com> |
| In reply to | #569714 |
In sci.physics Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> wrote: > jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: <snip> >>This goes along with you being unable to understand some people came >>to the Americas just to get away from Europe and live their lives on >>a farm, some came for business reasons and some came to spread the >>word of God. And there were yet more reasons. >> > > So they didn't come for ROI at all, despite your earlier puling. What part of the word "some" and "yet more reasons" did you not understand, space cadet? <snip> >>Not worth the effort to cross the street and spit on, space cadet. >> > > Coward, chimpshit. Like so many worthless internet piles, you're > brave as hell at the end of a wire... Are you requesting a physical confrontation, space cadet? <snip> >>Funny that lots of fortunes were made off shipping stuff from the Americas, >>space cadet. >> > > But mostly from shipping stuff back, chimpshit. So now colonization > is all about the SHIPPERS making money? So where did the money come from to acquire and ship stuff back come from, space cadet? <snip> >>Fuck off and die, space cadet. >> > > Come make me, chimpshit. Are you rquesting a physical confrontation, space cadet? <snip> >>Yep, ever taken a survival course of any kind, space cadet? >> >>Ever had any training on the logistics of keeping people alive in a >>remote location, space cadet? >> > > Have you, chimpshit? Yes, space cadet. <snip> >>Lots of people watched the 1st Moon landing. How many watched the >>third one, space cadet? >> > > Irrelevant, since they weren't being run as a reality show, chimpshit. Nope, quite relevant, space cadet. Most people find the space program to be boring, space cadet. Reality shows depend on some sort of conflict or the peculiarities of "different" people to keep people interested. What would living in a pressurized tin can have to offer to keep people interested, space cadet? <snip> >>So where is the benefit to those shipped off, space cadet? >> > > You'd have to ask the 200,000+ who volunteered, chimpshit. Reality > has rather neatly exploded your idiotic position that no one would > ever volunteer for such a trip. > >> >>Will they get residuals from the TV show? >> > > Ask them. And here I thought you were supposed to know everything, space cadet. I would suppose that for a lot of the first batch it would be the adventure of it all, but that would all go away after the first baby was born. <snip> >>The revolutions took care of that, space cadet, and that was for the >>colonies that were established to be a business, which not all colonies >>were. >> > > So your position is that colonies become 'profitable' by defaulting > and shooting at those they owe money to? Yeah, that sounds like > something you'd believe. You are the one that brought up debt of the colonies as a entity, space cadet. <snip> >>I don't think you can just let go of something on Mars and have it >>fall back to Earth in one piece, space cadet. >> > > And you think a little shove with a solid rocket motor costs what, > chimpshit? Gravity does practically all the work. I'm sorry you're > stupid, chimpshit. Then getting to Mars in the first place must be pretty simple, space cadet. It is the same gravity potential both ways. <snip> >>Incas and Mayans? >> > > After how many thousand years to organize? But colonies must be > 'instant' according to you, chimp. ROI and all that. There go those voices in your head again, space cadet. What I said was it is possible to survive and thrive in the Americas without outside supply as shown by the millions of people that lived in the Americas before the Europeans showed up. <snip> >>It took Spain huge armys and payed for local help to conquer them. >> > > No. Again your history is deficient. Cortez took down the Aztec > Empire with 630 people, including women, slaves, and ships' crews. No > "vast army" at all. In fact, when the histories are examined, NONE of > Cortez' expedition are referred to as 'soldiers'. "The army with which Hernan Cortes besieged Tenochtitlan was composed of 200,000 soldiers.." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conquistador <snip> >>There were millions of people in the Americas before the Europeans >>killed the vast majority of them with European diseases. >> > > And almost all of them were living at a subsistence level and barely > surviving, even within the two empires you mention. Oh bullshit. Even if that were true, it still does not mean that is is not possible to survive in the Americas without resupply from Europe, instead it proves that it is. And those were essentially Bronze Age civilizations and no one knows how they would have eventually developed if Europe didn't exist. <snip> >>Prime it with what, enough ice comets to create oceans, space cadet? >> > > The same way Earth colonies were 'primed' with things like spinning > wheels, axes, and plows, dishonest chimpshit. You bring power and > supplies to get started and last a while. Then you build shit. Wow, > what a concept. Obviously much too obscure for a fine mind like yours > to figure out. Nope, it takes a global supply and transportation system to support 21st century technology all of which has to be payed for by somebody, space cadet. That is quite a bit more than just "build shit", space cadet. -- Jim Pennino
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| From | Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-11 19:51 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <b9nogbhicenfhbs4om1bdklp0q037fpi35@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #569783 |
jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>In sci.physics Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> wrote:
>> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>
><snip>
>
>>>This goes along with you being unable to understand some people came
>>>to the Americas just to get away from Europe and live their lives on
>>>a farm, some came for business reasons and some came to spread the
>>>word of God. And there were yet more reasons.
>>>
>>
>> So they didn't come for ROI at all, despite your earlier puling.
>
>What part of the word "some" and "yet more reasons" did you not understand,
>space cadet?
>
So stop puling about ROI, chimpshit.
>
><snip>
>
>>>Not worth the effort to cross the street and spit on, space cadet.
>>>
>>
>> Coward, chimpshit. Like so many worthless internet piles, you're
>> brave as hell at the end of a wire...
>
>Are you requesting a physical confrontation, space cadet?
>
You keep wanting me dead, chimpshit. Given your threats, I have good
reason to fear for my life and safety.
><snip>
>
>>>Funny that lots of fortunes were made off shipping stuff from the Americas,
>>>space cadet.
>>>
>>
>> But mostly from shipping stuff back, chimpshit. So now colonization
>> is all about the SHIPPERS making money?
>>
>
>So where did the money come from to acquire and ship stuff back come
>from, space cadet?
>
So why were the colonies all always in massive debt, chimpshit?
><snip>
>
>>>Fuck off and die, space cadet.
>>>
>>
>> Come make me, chimpshit.
>
>Are you rquesting a physical confrontation, space cadet?
>
You keep wishing me dead, chimpshit.
><snip>
>
>>>Yep, ever taken a survival course of any kind, space cadet?
>>>
>>>Ever had any training on the logistics of keeping people alive in a
>>>remote location, space cadet?
>>>
>>
>> Have you, chimpshit?
>
>Yes, space cadet.
>
When and where, chimpshit?
><snip>
>
>>>Lots of people watched the 1st Moon landing. How many watched the
>>>third one, space cadet?
>>>
>>
>> Irrelevant, since they weren't being run as a reality show, chimpshit.
>>
>
>Nope, quite relevant, space cadet.
>
Not relevant at all, chimpshit.
>
>Most people find the space program to be boring, space cadet.
>
That's the difference between a documentary and a reality show,
chimpshit.
>
>Reality shows depend on some sort of conflict or the peculiarities of
>"different" people to keep people interested.
>
Yeah. So what?
>
>What would living in a pressurized tin can have to offer to keep people
>interested, space cadet?
>
What makes you think your fantasies apply, chimpshit? And even if
they do, ever heard of a reality show called Big Brother? It all
takes place inside an isolated house.
>
><snip>
>
>>>So where is the benefit to those shipped off, space cadet?
>>>
>>
>> You'd have to ask the 200,000+ who volunteered, chimpshit. Reality
>> has rather neatly exploded your idiotic position that no one would
>> ever volunteer for such a trip.
>>
>>>
>>>Will they get residuals from the TV show?
>>>
>>
>> Ask them.
>
>And here I thought you were supposed to know everything, space cadet.
>
Knowing more than you is hardly knowing 'everything', chimpshit. In
fact, knowing more than you is just a pretty low bar...
>
>I would suppose that for a lot of the first batch it would be the
>adventure of it all, but that would all go away after the first baby
>was born.
>
I would suggest that no one should accept what you would 'suggest'.
>
><snip>
>
>>>The revolutions took care of that, space cadet, and that was for the
>>>colonies that were established to be a business, which not all colonies
>>>were.
>>>
>>
>> So your position is that colonies become 'profitable' by defaulting
>> and shooting at those they owe money to? Yeah, that sounds like
>> something you'd believe.
>
>You are the one that brought up debt of the colonies as a entity,
>space cadet.
>
Non sequitur, chimpshit.
><snip>
>
>>>I don't think you can just let go of something on Mars and have it
>>>fall back to Earth in one piece, space cadet.
>>>
>>
>> And you think a little shove with a solid rocket motor costs what,
>> chimpshit? Gravity does practically all the work. I'm sorry you're
>> stupid, chimpshit.
>
>Then getting to Mars in the first place must be pretty simple, space
>cadet. It is the same gravity potential both ways.
>
Wow! Just 'wow'! Slide down a water slide, chimpshit. Now slide up
one. It ought to be easy, what with it being the same gravity
potential both ways...
><snip>
>
>>>Incas and Mayans?
>>>
>>
>> After how many thousand years to organize? But colonies must be
>> 'instant' according to you, chimp. ROI and all that.
>
>There go those voices in your head again, space cadet.
>
Only because you keep puling, chimpshit.
>
>What I said was it is possible to survive and thrive in the Americas
>without outside supply as shown by the millions of people that lived
>in the Americas before the Europeans showed up.
>
And what was shown by the millions who died and all those who didn't
survive. Learn something on the original population of the Americas,
chimpshit.
><snip>
>
>>>It took Spain huge armys and payed for local help to conquer them.
>>>
>>
>> No. Again your history is deficient. Cortez took down the Aztec
>> Empire with 630 people, including women, slaves, and ships' crews. No
>> "vast army" at all. In fact, when the histories are examined, NONE of
>> Cortez' expedition are referred to as 'soldiers'.
>
>"The army with which Hernan Cortes besieged Tenochtitlan was composed of
>200,000 soldiers.."
>
Finish the quote, you dishonest shit. "... of which fewer than 1%
were Spaniards." No "vast Spanish army" at all. Pit the locals
against each other was the name of the game.
>
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conquistador
>
><snip>
>
>>>There were millions of people in the Americas before the Europeans
>>>killed the vast majority of them with European diseases.
>>>
>>
>> And almost all of them were living at a subsistence level and barely
>> surviving, even within the two empires you mention.
>
>Oh bullshit.
>
More like chimpshit.
>
>Even if that were true, it still does not mean that is is not possible
>to survive in the Americas without resupply from Europe, instead it
>proves that it is.
>
>And those were essentially Bronze Age civilizations and no one knows
>how they would have eventually developed if Europe didn't exist.
>
We know how they would have developed. They hadn't advanced in
centuries. Most 'civilizations' in the Americas were stone age, with
a little bit of copper age in South America and perhaps a handful of
bronze age.
><snip>
>
>>>Prime it with what, enough ice comets to create oceans, space cadet?
>>>
>>
>> The same way Earth colonies were 'primed' with things like spinning
>> wheels, axes, and plows, dishonest chimpshit. You bring power and
>> supplies to get started and last a while. Then you build shit. Wow,
>> what a concept. Obviously much too obscure for a fine mind like yours
>> to figure out.
>
>Nope, it takes a global supply and transportation system to support
>21st century technology all of which has to be payed for by somebody,
>space cadet.
>
Now you're talking way, WAY belying 'survival', chimpshit. Make up
your mind. Now a colony has to instantly have and maintain the
standard of living of Connecticut?
>
>That is quite a bit more than just "build shit", space cadet.
>
Keep shifting ground, chimpshit. It just makes you look desperate.
Your line was 'survive'. Now it's "live in rich suburbia". Wriggle,
wriggle, little chimpshit...
--
"Rule Number One for Slayers - Don't die."
-- Buffy, the Vampire Slayer
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| From | jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-12 18:08 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <i6qvtc-3gf.ln1@mail.specsol.com> |
| In reply to | #569855 |
In sci.physics Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> wrote: > jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: > >>In sci.physics Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> wrote: >>> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: >> >><snip> >> >>>>This goes along with you being unable to understand some people came >>>>to the Americas just to get away from Europe and live their lives on >>>>a farm, some came for business reasons and some came to spread the >>>>word of God. And there were yet more reasons. >>>> >>> >>> So they didn't come for ROI at all, despite your earlier puling. >> >>What part of the word "some" and "yet more reasons" did you not understand, >>space cadet? >> > > So stop puling about ROI, chimpshit. Does the term ROI offend you some how? > >> >><snip> >> >>>>Not worth the effort to cross the street and spit on, space cadet. >>>> >>> >>> Coward, chimpshit. Like so many worthless internet piles, you're >>> brave as hell at the end of a wire... >> >>Are you requesting a physical confrontation, space cadet? >> > > You keep wanting me dead, chimpshit. Given your threats, I have good > reason to fear for my life and safety. You have no idea what I wish unless you are now claiming to be a mind reader. > >><snip> >> >>>>Funny that lots of fortunes were made off shipping stuff from the Americas, >>>>space cadet. >>>> >>> >>> But mostly from shipping stuff back, chimpshit. So now colonization >>> is all about the SHIPPERS making money? >>> >> >>So where did the money come from to acquire and ship stuff back come >>from, space cadet? >> > > So why were the colonies all always in massive debt, chimpshit? You evaded the question again. > >><snip> >> >>>>Fuck off and die, space cadet. >>>> >>> >>> Come make me, chimpshit. >> >>Are you rquesting a physical confrontation, space cadet? >> > > You keep wishing me dead, chimpshit. You have no idea what I wish unless you are now claiming to be a mind reader. > >><snip> >> >>>>Yep, ever taken a survival course of any kind, space cadet? >>>> >>>>Ever had any training on the logistics of keeping people alive in a >>>>remote location, space cadet? >>>> >>> >>> Have you, chimpshit? >> >>Yes, space cadet. >> > > When and where, chimpshit? Survival, escape, and evasion courses. Your turn. > >><snip> >> >>>>Lots of people watched the 1st Moon landing. How many watched the >>>>third one, space cadet? >>>> >>> >>> Irrelevant, since they weren't being run as a reality show, chimpshit. >>> >> >>Nope, quite relevant, space cadet. >> > > Not relevant at all, chimpshit. > >> >>Most people find the space program to be boring, space cadet. >> > > That's the difference between a documentary and a reality show, > chimpshit. > >> >>Reality shows depend on some sort of conflict or the peculiarities of >>"different" people to keep people interested. >> > > Yeah. So what? > >> >>What would living in a pressurized tin can have to offer to keep people >>interested, space cadet? >> > > What makes you think your fantasies apply, chimpshit? And even if > they do, ever heard of a reality show called Big Brother? It all > takes place inside an isolated house. Which is a game show with a prize winner and constant conflicts. > >> >><snip> >> >>>>So where is the benefit to those shipped off, space cadet? >>>> >>> >>> You'd have to ask the 200,000+ who volunteered, chimpshit. Reality >>> has rather neatly exploded your idiotic position that no one would >>> ever volunteer for such a trip. >>> >>>> >>>>Will they get residuals from the TV show? >>>> >>> >>> Ask them. >> >>And here I thought you were supposed to know everything, space cadet. >> > > Knowing more than you is hardly knowing 'everything', chimpshit. In > fact, knowing more than you is just a pretty low bar... You evaded the question again. >> >>I would suppose that for a lot of the first batch it would be the >>adventure of it all, but that would all go away after the first baby >>was born. >> > > I would suggest that no one should accept what you would 'suggest'. You evaded the question again. > >> >><snip> >> >>>>The revolutions took care of that, space cadet, and that was for the >>>>colonies that were established to be a business, which not all colonies >>>>were. >>>> >>> >>> So your position is that colonies become 'profitable' by defaulting >>> and shooting at those they owe money to? Yeah, that sounds like >>> something you'd believe. >> >>You are the one that brought up debt of the colonies as a entity, >>space cadet. >> > > Non sequitur, chimpshit. Most of what you post is a non sequitur to evade questions. > >><snip> >> >>>>I don't think you can just let go of something on Mars and have it >>>>fall back to Earth in one piece, space cadet. >>>> >>> >>> And you think a little shove with a solid rocket motor costs what, >>> chimpshit? Gravity does practically all the work. I'm sorry you're >>> stupid, chimpshit. >> >>Then getting to Mars in the first place must be pretty simple, space >>cadet. It is the same gravity potential both ways. >> > > Wow! Just 'wow'! Slide down a water slide, chimpshit. Now slide up > one. It ought to be easy, what with it being the same gravity > potential both ways... That has to be the dumbest thing I've read in a long time. > >><snip> >> >>>>Incas and Mayans? >>>> >>> >>> After how many thousand years to organize? But colonies must be >>> 'instant' according to you, chimp. ROI and all that. >> >>There go those voices in your head again, space cadet. >> > > Only because you keep puling, chimpshit. Because you read what you want to see, not what is wrtiten. > >> >>What I said was it is possible to survive and thrive in the Americas >>without outside supply as shown by the millions of people that lived >>in the Americas before the Europeans showed up. >> > > And what was shown by the millions who died and all those who didn't > survive. Learn something on the original population of the Americas, > chimpshit. There were somewhere between 50 million and 100 million people in the Americas before Europeans showed up, so survival couldn't have been to terribly difficult. > >><snip> >> >>>>It took Spain huge armys and payed for local help to conquer them. >>>> >>> >>> No. Again your history is deficient. Cortez took down the Aztec >>> Empire with 630 people, including women, slaves, and ships' crews. No >>> "vast army" at all. In fact, when the histories are examined, NONE of >>> Cortez' expedition are referred to as 'soldiers'. >> >>"The army with which Hernan Cortes besieged Tenochtitlan was composed of >>200,000 soldiers.." >> > > Finish the quote, you dishonest shit. "... of which fewer than 1% > were Spaniards." No "vast Spanish army" at all. Pit the locals > against each other was the name of the game. What part of "payed for local help" did you not understand? >> >>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conquistador >> >><snip> >> >>>>There were millions of people in the Americas before the Europeans >>>>killed the vast majority of them with European diseases. >>>> >>> >>> And almost all of them were living at a subsistence level and barely >>> surviving, even within the two empires you mention. >> >>Oh bullshit. >> > > More like chimpshit. > >> >>Even if that were true, it still does not mean that is is not possible >>to survive in the Americas without resupply from Europe, instead it >>proves that it is. >> >>And those were essentially Bronze Age civilizations and no one knows >>how they would have eventually developed if Europe didn't exist. >> > > We know how they would have developed. They hadn't advanced in > centuries. Most 'civilizations' in the Americas were stone age, with > a little bit of copper age in South America and perhaps a handful of > bronze age. And it took centuries for Europeans to advance. Europe had the technology motivator of war between neighboring empires, like England, France, Italy, Germany, etc. The Aztecs, Incas, and Mayans were too far apart to fight each other. > >><snip> >> >>>>Prime it with what, enough ice comets to create oceans, space cadet? >>>> >>> >>> The same way Earth colonies were 'primed' with things like spinning >>> wheels, axes, and plows, dishonest chimpshit. You bring power and >>> supplies to get started and last a while. Then you build shit. Wow, >>> what a concept. Obviously much too obscure for a fine mind like yours >>> to figure out. >> >>Nope, it takes a global supply and transportation system to support >>21st century technology all of which has to be payed for by somebody, >>space cadet. >> > > Now you're talking way, WAY belying 'survival', chimpshit. Make up > your mind. Now a colony has to instantly have and maintain the > standard of living of Connecticut? Nope to remain conscious for longer than 5 seconds. >> >>That is quite a bit more than just "build shit", space cadet. >> > > Keep shifting ground, chimpshit. It just makes you look desperate. > Your line was 'survive'. Now it's "live in rich suburbia". Wriggle, > wriggle, little chimpshit... Nope to remain conscious for longer than 5 seconds. -- Jim Pennino
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