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The Photon Clock Challenge | Space Time | PBS Digital Studios

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  The Photon Clock Challenge | Space Time | PBS Digital Studios Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-01-21 17:30 -0600
    Re: The Photon Clock Challenge | Space Time | PBS Digital Studios jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-01-21 23:42 +0000
      Re: The Photon Clock Challenge | Space Time | PBS Digital Studios Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-01-23 10:05 -0600
        Re: The Photon Clock Challenge | Space Time | PBS Digital Studios jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-01-23 19:10 +0000
          Re: The Photon Clock Challenge | Space Time | PBS Digital Studios Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-01-24 21:49 -0600
            Re: The Photon Clock Challenge | Space Time | PBS Digital Studios jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-01-25 05:06 +0000
              Re: The Photon Clock Challenge | Space Time | PBS Digital Studios Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-01-24 23:49 -0600
                Re: The Photon Clock Challenge | Space Time | PBS Digital Studios Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-01-25 08:11 -0600
    Re: The Photon Clock Challenge | Space Time | PBS Digital Studios kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-01-24 20:19 -0800
      Re: The Photon Clock Challenge | Space Time | PBS Digital Studios Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-01-24 22:26 -0600
        Re: The Photon Clock Challenge | Space Time | PBS Digital Studios kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-01-25 06:44 -0800

#547060 — The Photon Clock Challenge | Space Time | PBS Digital Studios

The Photon Clock Challenge | Space Time | PBS Digital Studios
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpuGjzdHqgI


> Question #1: When the clock is moving towards you, do you observe its
> hands to be ticking slower, faster, or at the same rate compared to
> the rate of ticks that you observe when it's moving away from you?
>
> Question #2: When the clock is moving towards you do you see its
> hands ticking slower, faster, or at the same rate as a second clock
> that is stationary with respect to you?


-- 

sci.physics is an unmoderated newsgroup dedicated
to the discussion of physics, news from the physics
community, and physics-related social issues.

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#547069

Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> wrote:
> The Photon Clock Challenge | Space Time | PBS Digital Studios
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpuGjzdHqgI
> 
> 
>> Question #1: When the clock is moving towards you, do you observe its
>> hands to be ticking slower, faster, or at the same rate compared to
>> the rate of ticks that you observe when it's moving away from you?
>>
>> Question #2: When the clock is moving towards you do you see its
>> hands ticking slower, faster, or at the same rate as a second clock
>> that is stationary with respect to you?
 
To be able to observe the hands of a moving clock, it would have to
be moving far too slowly to make any difference at all.

What makes you believe you are so special you are exempt from copyrights?


-- 
Jim Pennino

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#547510

On 1/21/16 5:42 PM, jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
> To be able to observe the hands of a moving clock, it would have to
> be moving far too slowly to make any difference at all.
>



   Now, now, jimp, you should read the following material for content,
   as you can learn some relativity.

The Photon Clock Challenge | Space Time | PBS Digital Studios
 > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpuGjzdHqgI


 > Question #1: When the clock is moving towards you, do you observe its
 > hands to be ticking slower, faster, or at the same rate compared to
 > the rate of ticks that you observe when it's moving away from you?
 >
 > Question #2: When the clock is moving towards you do you see its
 > hands ticking slower, faster, or at the same rate as a second clock
 > that is stationary with respect to you?




-- 

sci.physics is an unmoderated newsgroup dedicated
to the discussion of physics, news from the physics
community, and physics-related social issues.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#547610

Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 1/21/16 5:42 PM, jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>> To be able to observe the hands of a moving clock, it would have to
>> be moving far too slowly to make any difference at all.
>>
> 
> 
> 
>   Now, now, jimp, you should read the following material for content,
>   as you can learn some relativity.

What makes you think you are so special you are exempt from copyrights?

> The Photon Clock Challenge | Space Time | PBS Digital Studios
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpuGjzdHqgI

Yet another silly video.


-- 
Jim Pennino

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#547873

On 1/23/16 1:10 PM, jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
> What makes you think you are so special you are exempt from copyrights?



   Now, now, jimp, you're obsessive nature is outta control, and your
   absolute contempt and total disgust are addressed in these Anger
   Management classes. You, jimp, need these services:
 > http://yellowpages.com/rancho-cucamonga-ca/anger-management-classes



The Photon Clock Challenge | Space Time | PBS Digital Studios
 > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpuGjzdHqgI


 > Question #1: When the clock is moving towards you, do you observe its
 > hands to be ticking slower, faster, or at the same rate compared to
 > the rate of ticks that you observe when it's moving away from you?
 >
 > Question #2: When the clock is moving towards you do you see its
 > hands ticking slower, faster, or at the same rate as a second clock
 > that is stationary with respect to you?


-- 

sci.physics is an unmoderated newsgroup dedicated
to the discussion of physics, news from the physics
community, and physics-related social issues.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#547911

Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 1/23/16 1:10 PM, jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>> What makes you think you are so special you are exempt from copyrights?
> 
> 
> 
>   Now, now, jimp, you're obsessive nature is outta control, and your

Do you think it is obsessive to follow the rule of society, cut and
paste, copyright violating, shit head?


-- 
Jim Pennino

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#547922

On 1/24/16 11:06 PM, jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
> Do you think it is obsessive to follow the rule of society, cut and
> paste, copyright violating, shit head?



   Now, now, jimp, you're obsessive nature is outta control, and your
   absolute contempt and total disgust are addressed in these Anger
   Management classes. You, jimp, need these services:
 > http://yellowpages.com/rancho-cucamonga-ca/anger-management-classes



The Photon Clock Challenge | Space Time | PBS Digital Studios
 > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpuGjzdHqgI


 > Question #1: When the clock is moving towards you, do you observe its
 > hands to be ticking slower, faster, or at the same rate compared to
 > the rate of ticks that you observe when it's moving away from you?
 >
 > Question #2: When the clock is moving towards you do you see its
 > hands ticking slower, faster, or at the same rate as a second clock
 > that is stationary with respect to you?


-- 

sci.physics is an unmoderated newsgroup dedicated
to the discussion of physics, news from the physics
community, and physics-related social issues.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#547987

On 1/25/16 12:52 AM, jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
> Do you think it is obsessive to follow the rule of society, cut and
> paste, copyright violating, shit head?



   Now, now, jimp, you're obsessive nature is outta control, and your
   absolute contempt and total disgust are addressed in these Anger
   Management classes. You, jimp, need these services:
 > http://yellowpages.com/rancho-cucamonga-ca/anger-management-classes



The Photon Clock Challenge | Space Time | PBS Digital Studios
 > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpuGjzdHqgI

 > Question #1: When the clock is moving towards you, do you observe its
 > hands to be ticking slower, faster, or at the same rate compared to
 > the rate of ticks that you observe when it's moving away from you?
 >
 > Question #2: When the clock is moving towards you do you see its
 > hands ticking slower, faster, or at the same rate as a second clock
 > that is stationary with respect to you?


-- 

sci.physics is an unmoderated newsgroup dedicated
to the discussion of physics, news from the physics
community, and physics-related social issues.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#547885

On Thursday, January 21, 2016 at 6:30:35 PM UTC-5, Sam Wormley wrote:
> The Photon Clock Challenge | Space Time | PBS Digital Studios
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpuGjzdHqgI
> 
> 
> > Question #1: When the clock is moving towards you, do you observe its
> > hands to be ticking slower, faster, or at the same rate compared to
> > the rate of ticks that you observe when it's moving away from you?

According to SR, you the SR observer predicts the clock is moving at s slower rate by a factor of 1/gamma. The direction of motion wrt you has no effect on this prediction.
According to IRT the moving clock is predicted to run slower by a factor of 1/gamma or run faster by a factor of gamma. But only one of these prediction is correct.
Same answer for question #2.


> >
> > Question #2: When the clock is moving towards you do you see its
> > hands ticking slower, faster, or at the same rate as a second clock
> > that is stationary with respect to you?
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> sci.physics is an unmoderated newsgroup dedicated
> to the discussion of physics, news from the physics
> community, and physics-related social issues.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#547887

On 1/24/16 10:19 PM, kenseto wrote:
> On Thursday, January 21, 2016 at 6:30:35 PM UTC-5, Sam Wormley wrote:
>> The Photon Clock Challenge | Space Time | PBS Digital Studios
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpuGjzdHqgI
>>
>>
>>> Question #1: When the clock is moving towards you, do you observe its
>>> hands to be ticking slower, faster, or at the same rate compared to
>>> the rate of ticks that you observe when it's moving away from you?
>
> According to SR, you the SR observer predicts the clock is moving at s slower rate by a factor of 1/gamma. The direction of motion wrt you has no effect on this prediction.
> According to IRT the moving clock is predicted to run slower by a factor of 1/gamma or run faster by a factor of gamma. But only one of these prediction is correct.
> Same answer for question #2.
>
>


   All you have done is show that you do not understand special
   relativity, Seto. The following document describes the very problem
   you experience in failing to understand relativity.

   Student understanding of time in special relativity: simultaneity and
   reference frames
 > http://arxiv.org/pdf/physics/0207109.pdf?origin=publication_detail

 > This article reports on an investigation of student understanding of
 > the concept of time in special relativity. A series of research tasks
 > are discussed that illustrate, step-by-step, how student reasoning of
 > fundamental concepts of relativity was probed. The results indicate
 > that after standard instruction students at all academic levels have
 > serious difficulties with the relativity of simultaneity and with the
 > role of observers in inertial reference frames. Evidence is presented
 > that suggests many students construct a conceptual framework in which
 > the ideas of absolute simultaneity and the relativity of simultaneity
 > harmoniously co-exist.

 > Conclusions

 > This investigation has identified widespread difficulties that
 > students have with the definition of the time of an event and the
 > role of intelligent observers. After instruction, more than 2/3 of
 > physics undergraduates and 1/3 of graduate students in physics are
 > unable to apply the construct of a reference frame in determining
 > whether or not two events are simultaneous. Many students interpret
 > the phrase “relativity of simultaneity” as implying that the
 > simultaneity of events is determined by an observer on the basis of
 > the reception of light signals. They often attribute the relativity
 > of simultaneity to the difference in signal travel time for different
 > observers. In this way, they reconcile statements of the relativity
 > of simultaneity with a belief in absolute simultaneity and fail to
 > confront the startling ideas of special relativity.

 > Experienced instructors know that students often have trouble
 > relating measurements made by observers in different reference
 > frames. It is not surprising that students, even at advanced levels,
 > do not fully understand the implications of the invariance of the
 > speed of light. What is surprising is that most students apparently
 > fail to recognize even the basic issues that are being addressed.
 > Students at all levels have significant difficulties with the ideas
 > that form the foundations of the concept of a reference frame. In
 > particular, many students do not think of a reference frame as a
 > system of observers that determine the same time for any given event.
 > Such difficulties appear to impede not only their understanding of
 > the relativity of simultaneity, but also their ability to apply
 > correctly the Lorentz transformations.

 > Special relativity offers instructors an opportunity to channel
 > student interest in modern physics into a challenging intellectual
 > experience. For most people, the implications of special relativity
 > are in strong conflict with their intuition. For students to
 > recognize the conflict and appreciate its resolution, they need to
 > have a functional understanding of some very basic concepts.
 > Formulating an appropriate measurement procedure for the time of an
 > event involves recognizing the inherently local nature of
 > measurement, applying a well-defined measurement procedure in a given
 > reference frame, and understanding the relationship between
 > measurements made by different observers. These ideas are crucial in
 > contexts ranging from the rolling of a steel ball on a level track to
 > the motion of objects in the vicinity of massive stars. This
 > investigation documents prevalent modes of reasoning with these
 > fundamental concepts as a first step toward making special relativity
 > meaningful to students.


-- 

sci.physics is an unmoderated newsgroup dedicated
to the discussion of physics, news from the physics
community, and physics-related social issues.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#547994

On Sunday, January 24, 2016 at 11:26:29 PM UTC-5, Sam Wormley wrote:
> On 1/24/16 10:19 PM, kenseto wrote:
> > On Thursday, January 21, 2016 at 6:30:35 PM UTC-5, Sam Wormley wrote:
> >> The Photon Clock Challenge | Space Time | PBS Digital Studios
> >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpuGjzdHqgI
> >>
> >>
> >>> Question #1: When the clock is moving towards you, do you observe its
> >>> hands to be ticking slower, faster, or at the same rate compared to
> >>> the rate of ticks that you observe when it's moving away from you?
> > 
> > According to SR, you the SR observer predicts the clock is moving at s slower rate by a factor of 1/gamma. The direction of motion wrt you has no effect on this prediction.
> > According to IRT the moving clock is predicted to run slower by a factor of 1/gamma or run faster by a factor of gamma. But only one of these prediction is correct.
> > Same answer for question #2.
> >
> >
> 
> 
>    All you have done is show that you do not understand special
>    relativity, Seto. The following document describes the very problem
>    you experience in failing to understand relativity.

Wormy it is you who don't understand relativity. The LT supports what I said.


> 
>    Student understanding of time in special relativity: simultaneity and
>    reference frames
>  > http://arxiv.org/pdf/physics/0207109.pdf?origin=publication_detail
> 
>  > This article reports on an investigation of student understanding of
>  > the concept of time in special relativity. A series of research tasks
>  > are discussed that illustrate, step-by-step, how student reasoning of
>  > fundamental concepts of relativity was probed. The results indicate
>  > that after standard instruction students at all academic levels have
>  > serious difficulties with the relativity of simultaneity and with the
>  > role of observers in inertial reference frames. Evidence is presented
>  > that suggests many students construct a conceptual framework in which
>  > the ideas of absolute simultaneity and the relativity of simultaneity
>  > harmoniously co-exist.
> 
>  > Conclusions
> 
>  > This investigation has identified widespread difficulties that
>  > students have with the definition of the time of an event and the
>  > role of intelligent observers. After instruction, more than 2/3 of
>  > physics undergraduates and 1/3 of graduate students in physics are
>  > unable to apply the construct of a reference frame in determining
>  > whether or not two events are simultaneous. Many students interpret
>  > the phrase "relativity of simultaneity" as implying that the
>  > simultaneity of events is determined by an observer on the basis of
>  > the reception of light signals. They often attribute the relativity
>  > of simultaneity to the difference in signal travel time for different
>  > observers. In this way, they reconcile statements of the relativity
>  > of simultaneity with a belief in absolute simultaneity and fail to
>  > confront the startling ideas of special relativity.
> 
>  > Experienced instructors know that students often have trouble
>  > relating measurements made by observers in different reference
>  > frames. It is not surprising that students, even at advanced levels,
>  > do not fully understand the implications of the invariance of the
>  > speed of light. What is surprising is that most students apparently
>  > fail to recognize even the basic issues that are being addressed.
>  > Students at all levels have significant difficulties with the ideas
>  > that form the foundations of the concept of a reference frame. In
>  > particular, many students do not think of a reference frame as a
>  > system of observers that determine the same time for any given event.
>  > Such difficulties appear to impede not only their understanding of
>  > the relativity of simultaneity, but also their ability to apply
>  > correctly the Lorentz transformations.
> 
>  > Special relativity offers instructors an opportunity to channel
>  > student interest in modern physics into a challenging intellectual
>  > experience. For most people, the implications of special relativity
>  > are in strong conflict with their intuition. For students to
>  > recognize the conflict and appreciate its resolution, they need to
>  > have a functional understanding of some very basic concepts.
>  > Formulating an appropriate measurement procedure for the time of an
>  > event involves recognizing the inherently local nature of
>  > measurement, applying a well-defined measurement procedure in a given
>  > reference frame, and understanding the relationship between
>  > measurements made by different observers. These ideas are crucial in
>  > contexts ranging from the rolling of a steel ball on a level track to
>  > the motion of objects in the vicinity of massive stars. This
>  > investigation documents prevalent modes of reasoning with these
>  > fundamental concepts as a first step toward making special relativity
>  > meaningful to students.
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> sci.physics is an unmoderated newsgroup dedicated
> to the discussion of physics, news from the physics
> community, and physics-related social issues.

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