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Groups > sci.physics > #715031 > unrolled thread
| Started by | "reber G=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2018-11-27 18:08 -0800 |
| Last post | 2018-11-30 21:27 -0800 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 65 — 10 participants |
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Can A Powerful Black Hole Put light in Orbit? "reber G=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2018-11-27 18:08 -0800
Re: Can A Powerful Black Hole Put light in Orbit? "hanson" <hanson@quick.net> - 2018-11-27 19:15 -0800
Re: Can A Powerful Black Hole Put light in Orbit? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-11-29 10:55 -0800
Re: Can A Powerful Black Hole Put light in Orbit? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-11-29 19:51 +0000
Re: Can A Powerful Black Hole Put light in Orbit? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-11-29 15:32 -0800
Re: Can A Powerful Black Hole Put light in Orbit? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-11-29 15:41 -0800
Re: Can A Powerful Black Hole Put light in Orbit? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-11-30 03:22 +0000
Re: Can A Powerful Black Hole Put light in Orbit? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-11-30 03:22 +0000
Re: Can A Powerful Black Hole Put light in Orbit? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-11-29 20:46 -0800
Re: Can A Powerful Black Hole Put light in Orbit? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-11-30 12:13 +0000
Re: Can A Powerful Black Hole Put light in Orbit? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-11-30 04:28 -0800
Re: Can A Powerful Black Hole Put light in Orbit? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-11-30 13:22 +0000
Re: Can A Powerful Black Hole Put light in Orbit? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-11-30 14:04 +0000
Re: Can A Powerful Black Hole Put light in Orbit? "reber G=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2018-11-30 10:01 -0800
Re: Can A Powerful Black Hole Put light in Orbit? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-11-30 11:08 -0800
Re: Can A Powerful Black Hole Put light in Orbit? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-11-30 23:03 +0000
Re: Can A Powerful Black Hole Put light in Orbit? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-11-30 16:33 -0800
Re: Can A Powerful Black Hole Put light in Orbit? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-12-01 02:44 +0000
Re: Can A Powerful Black Hole Put light in Orbit? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-12-01 03:15 -0800
Re: Can A Powerful Black Hole Put light in Orbit? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-12-01 06:40 -0800
Re: Can A Powerful Black Hole Put light in Orbit? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-12-01 23:03 +0100
Re: Can A Powerful Black Hole Put light in Orbit? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-12-01 14:18 -0800
Re: Can A Powerful Black Hole Put light in Orbit? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-12-01 14:33 -0800
Re: Can A Powerful Black Hole Put light in Orbit? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-12-01 23:49 +0100
Re: Can A Powerful Black Hole Put light in Orbit? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-12-01 16:22 -0800
Re: Can A Powerful Black Hole Put light in Orbit? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-12-02 11:46 +0100
Re: Can A Powerful Black Hole Put light in Orbit? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-12-02 05:23 -0800
Re: Can A Powerful Black Hole Put light in Orbit? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-12-02 18:10 +0000
Re: Can A Powerful Black Hole Put light in Orbit? mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-12-02 12:49 -0800
Re: Can A Powerful Black Hole Put light in Orbit? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-12-02 21:53 +0000
Re: Can A Powerful Black Hole Put light in Orbit? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-12-03 02:03 +0000
Re: Can A Powerful Black Hole Put light in Orbit? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-12-03 02:39 -0800
Re: Can A Powerful Black Hole Put light in Orbit? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-12-03 12:30 +0000
Re: Can A Powerful Black Hole Put light in Orbit? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-12-03 06:05 -0800
Re: Can A Powerful Black Hole Put light in Orbit? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-12-03 14:32 +0000
Re: Can A Powerful Black Hole Put light in Orbit? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-12-03 06:36 -0800
Re: Can A Powerful Black Hole Put light in Orbit? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-12-03 14:55 +0000
Re: Can A Powerful Black Hole Put light in Orbit? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-12-03 08:11 -0800
Re: Can A Powerful Black Hole Put light in Orbit? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-12-03 15:17 +0000
Re: Can A Powerful Black Hole Put light in Orbit? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-12-03 08:13 -0800
Re: Can A Powerful Black Hole Put light in Orbit? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-12-03 20:19 +0000
Re: Can A Powerful Black Hole Put light in Orbit? mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-12-13 18:31 -0800
Re: Can A Powerful Black Hole Put light in Orbit? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-12-13 19:27 -0800
Re: Can A Powerful Black Hole Put light in Orbit? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-12-02 18:04 +0000
Re: Can A Powerful Black Hole Put light in Orbit? mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-12-02 12:52 -0800
Re: Can A Powerful Black Hole Put light in Orbit? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-12-02 13:08 -0800
Re: Can A Powerful Black Hole Put light in Orbit? mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-12-02 13:46 -0800
Re: Can A Powerful Black Hole Put light in Orbit? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-12-02 22:00 +0000
Re: Can A Powerful Black Hole Put light in Orbit? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-12-02 21:57 +0000
Re: Can A Powerful Black Hole Put light in Orbit? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-12-03 01:15 +0100
Re: Can A Powerful Black Hole Put light in Orbit? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-12-03 01:49 +0100
Re: Can A Powerful Black Hole Put light in Orbit? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-12-01 23:48 +0100
Re: Can A Powerful Black Hole Put light in Orbit? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-12-02 18:01 +0000
Re: Can A Powerful Black Hole Put light in Orbit? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-12-01 15:43 +0000
Re: Can A Powerful Black Hole Put light in Orbit? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-12-01 08:38 -0800
Re: Can A Powerful Black Hole Put light in Orbit? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-12-02 17:58 +0000
Re: Can A Powerful Black Hole Put light in Orbit? "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-11-30 21:07 -0800
Re: Can A Powerful Black Hole Put light in Orbit? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-11-29 16:42 -0800
Re: Can A Powerful Black Hole Put light in Orbit? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-11-30 03:22 +0000
Re: Can A Powerful Black Hole Put light in Orbit? mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-11-29 18:01 -0800
Re: Can A Powerful Black Hole Put light in Orbit? carleto4157990662@gmail.com - 2018-11-29 11:23 -0800
Re: Can A Powerful Black Hole Put light in Orbit? mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-11-29 11:57 -0800
Re: Can A Powerful Black Hole Put light in Orbit? Double-A <double-a3@hush.com> - 2018-11-29 15:22 -0800
Re: Can A Powerful Black Hole Put light in Orbit? mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-11-30 21:17 -0800
Re: Can A Powerful Black Hole Put light in Orbit? "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-11-30 21:27 -0800
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| From | Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-12-03 20:19 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <pu4340$k4e$1@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #716396 |
john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> wrote: > Odd > “with > experiment. Period, end” > So show me the experiment why you believe in DM > I DON’T. It’s a viable hypothesis that needs to be tested. One does not have to decide immediately whether a hypothesis is to be simply believed or simply disbelieved. There is a period of reserving judgement. Between 1930 and 1955, neutrinos were an unconfirmed but viable hypothesis, even though nothing like them had been seen before. There was a clear model, with clear and calculated and testable predictions, which took decades to actually perform. Nobody in their right mind in that period would have said, “yes they definitely exist” or “no the idea is nonsense”. In the case of dark matter, you are the one caught up in mid-flight in the investigation, and you are demanding “Now. Right now, prove it exists or abandon the idea.” It’s IN FLIGHT. What’s your freaking hurry? -- Odd Bodkin — Maker of fine toys, tools, tables
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| From | mitchrae3323@gmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-12-13 18:31 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <82acae5a-05f1-494d-9921-3694fa62da4a@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #716445 |
Light's motion curve is not orbital. Unless stored in the atom that is moving in a swiveling ellipse. Light's motion curve outside the atom is parabolic. Mitchell Raemsch
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| From | john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-12-13 19:27 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <64b66b25-6a32-4fb8-b747-d6aad2d2ef1c@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #716445 |
Odd “It’s IN FLIGHT. What’s your freaking hurry? ” It’s dead. It was ALWAYS Fudge, status-quo keeper.
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| From | moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-12-02 18:04 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <pu16ro$7el$9@pcls7.std.com> |
| In reply to | #716038 |
john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> writes: >Electrons are charged particles accelerating around spheres 10^-09m in >diameter at relativistic speeds. This releases energy constantly, >creating gravity. No, accelerating charges releases electromagnetic energy, not gravity. We see this all the time. Electromagnetic energy and gravity aren't even close to being the same thing. <snip mix of LeSage gravitation and a hallucination>
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| From | mitchrae3323@gmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-12-02 12:52 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <76d4b2f5-123c-4532-bcc5-13c26f0c4f3d@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #716238 |
On Sunday, December 2, 2018 at 10:04:43 AM UTC-8, Michael Moroney wrote: > john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> writes: > > >Electrons are charged particles accelerating around spheres 10^-09m in > >diameter at relativistic speeds. This releases energy constantly, > >creating gravity. > > No, accelerating charges releases electromagnetic energy, I accelerate in my car... why don't my electrons emit light? No. You are wrong. My car does not give off light... It doesn't happen for that acceleration so how would it for the others? Mitchell Raemsch > not gravity. > We see this all the time. Electromagnetic energy and gravity aren't > even close to being the same thing. > > <snip mix of LeSage gravitation and a hallucination>
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| From | john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-12-02 13:08 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <3df438f2-de13-4e3d-a24b-04758caeac4a@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #716261 |
mitch “I accelerate in my car... why don't my electrons emit light? No. You are wrong. My car does not give off light... It doesn't happen for that acceleration so how would it for the others? ” You give off lots of light. Forget light. Think energy/push. ALL matter gives it off. ALL matter absorbs it. Surface gravity is what comes from above minus what comes from below. Follow that thought up the scale.
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| From | mitchrae3323@gmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-12-02 13:46 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <4e68c7cb-b082-4f60-a9f3-e5c2f3b29996@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #716263 |
On Sunday, December 2, 2018 at 1:08:57 PM UTC-8, john wrote: > mitch > “I accelerate in my car... why don't my electrons emit light? > No. You are wrong. My car does not give off light... > It doesn't happen for that acceleration so how would it for > the others? > ” > You give off lots of light. > > Forget light. > Think energy/push. > ALL matter gives it off. > ALL matter absorbs it. No. Only the electric particles store light. Fusion releases new light energy from the electric particles. > Surface gravity is what comes from above minus what comes from below. > > Follow that thought up the scale. Light has a constant speed. If light moves slower than a so called medium; in the same direction; light would have to back out. At that point it has to both speed up and slow down at once. We are not observing medium slowdown... But light can change direction... by gravity and a lens. Mitchell Raemsch
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| From | moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-12-02 22:00 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <pu1km9$gqk$4@pcls7.std.com> |
| In reply to | #716263 |
john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> writes: >Surface gravity is what comes from above minus what comes from below. >Follow that thought up the scale. And you, too, can wind up in an asylum! Free room and board!!
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| From | moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-12-02 21:57 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <pu1kgn$gqk$2@pcls7.std.com> |
| In reply to | #716261 |
mitchrae3323@gmail.com writes: >On Sunday, December 2, 2018 at 10:04:43 AM UTC-8, Michael Moroney wrote: >> john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> writes: >> >> >Electrons are charged particles accelerating around spheres 10^-09m in >> >diameter at relativistic speeds. This releases energy constantly, >> >creating gravity. >> >> No, accelerating charges releases electromagnetic energy, >I accelerate in my car... why don't my electrons emit light? Because you accelerate an equal number of protons, and they/their charges cancel. I assume your car is electrically neutral or very close! >No. You are wrong. My car does not give off light... It doesn't have headlights??? >It doesn't happen for that acceleration so how would it for >the others? It does happen for that acceleration (but is small), but your car is uncharged so no radiation from that source.
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| From | Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-12-03 01:15 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <eaf5f891-8e99-da6b-3d4e-1738b74ba209@PointedEars.de> |
| In reply to | #716275 |
</killfile> Michael Moroney wrote: > mitchrae3323@gmail.com writes: >> On Sunday, December 2, 2018 at 10:04:43 AM UTC-8, Michael Moroney wrote: >>> john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> writes: >>>> Electrons are charged particles accelerating around spheres 10^-09m in >>>> diameter at relativistic speeds. This releases energy constantly, >>>> creating gravity. >>> No, accelerating charges releases electromagnetic energy, >> I accelerate in my car... why don't my electrons emit light? > > Because you accelerate an equal number of protons, and they/their > charges cancel. I assume your car is electrically neutral or very close! JFTR: What a load of pseudo-scientific nonsense. Electrically charged particles emit cyclotron/synchrotron radiation only if they are accelerated *radially* (by a magnetic field), and Cherenkov radiation only if they move in a medium relative to that medium faster than the phase speed of light in that medium. <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclotron_radiation> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synchrotron_radiation> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherenkov_radiation> <killfile> -- PointedEars Twitter: @PointedEars2 Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.
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| From | Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-12-03 01:49 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <a08fcb9e-aba0-d9e8-4dec-4f337f7c1254@PointedEars.de> |
| In reply to | #716304 |
Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote: > Electrically charged particles emit cyclotron/synchrotron radiation only if > they are accelerated *radially* (by a magnetic field), […] This should not be misconstrued to mean that electrons in orbitals in an atom would emit that radiation because of that. Not only are they in orbitals (that describe the *probability* of their being found there), and NOT in orbits; it also only applies to *free* charges, like in particle accelerators (hence the names of these forms of electromagnetic radiation). -- PointedEars Twitter: @PointedEars2 Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.
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| From | Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-12-01 23:48 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <8f092c12-f98f-97dd-ba72-593ca6982998@PointedEars.de> |
| In reply to | #716032 |
john wrote: > PointedEars > What makes your ‘field ‘? Learn to quote, then I am inclined to answer your questions. -- PointedEars Twitter: @PointedEars2 Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.
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| From | moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-12-02 18:01 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <pu16le$7el$8@pcls7.std.com> |
| In reply to | #716032 |
john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> writes: >PointedEars >What makes your 'field'? It's not made. It just is. The answer to that question is pretty much the same as the answer to "What makes the universe?"
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| From | Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-12-01 15:43 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <ptua7c$138n$3@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #715867 |
john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> wrote: > Odd > “I love how you think that just about ANYTHING can happen in a black hole. > ” > Haha. > You’re the one who believes in them. You do too. You talk about them all the time. > Gravity doesn’t work the way that you believe. > -- Odd Bodkin -- maker of fine toys, tools, tables
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| From | john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-12-01 08:38 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <5c6308b8-de1e-4f60-874b-78baba20be69@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #715908 |
Odd “> You’re the one who believes in them. You do too. You talk about them all the time. ” Easier than saying ‘galactic centers and other extreme Space-spin’
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| From | moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-12-02 17:58 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <pu16gs$7el$7@pcls7.std.com> |
| In reply to | #715867 |
john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> writes: >Gravity doesn't work the way that you believe. > Your assertion is not a valid argument.
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| From | "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-11-30 21:07 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <ptt4u7$es6$4@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #715689 |
On 11/30/2018 6:04 AM, Odd Bodkin wrote: > Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> wrote: >> john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> wrote: >>> Odd >>> “But do they? Is this observed in the lab?” >>> Which lab hosts an experimental black hole? >>> Get them to run tests. >>> I’m sure they’ll listen to you >>> >> >> So here’s the deal there. The laws of physics are universal. For example, >> the laws of electrodynamics are the same in a metal, inside an atom, out in >> deep space, at the event horizon of a black hole, or in a particle >> accelerator. So you don’t have to replicate a black hole to see what >> photons do and don’t do. You can look at them in other circumstances, where >> there is (you suggest) a high density of them with energies comparable to >> X-ray production. That’s it. And there are LOTS of experimental situations >> that produce those conditions. >> >> Where you diverge from science is saying that everything is circumstantial, >> that physical laws aren’t universal, and that in black holes EVERYTHING is >> different and so anything that can be imagined is possible. >> > > If this seems strange to you John, we can take a different approach. > > There is one common characteristic of any particle that emits photons. What > is that characteristic? > > Put a different way, what is the one common characteristic of all particles > that interact electromagnetically? > > I’m sure if you think a bit, this will come to you. If it helps, write down > on a piece of paper all the particles you know and note for each one > whether they interact electromagnetically. Then the one trait will jump > right out at you. > I think a photon can orbit a BH. However, the stability of said orbit will probably be chaotic in nature. It might get flung off after a while, or even get sucked into the BH. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photon_sphere
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| From | john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-11-29 16:42 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <1537d114-8890-4f4e-85b5-bafcf0271705@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #715438 |
Odd “The ‘accretion discs’ are trapped photons > Which emit Xrays? How do photons emit Xrays? ” So- your question is, Odd- how can photons give off photons? Is that correct?
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| From | Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-11-30 03:22 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <ptqadn$g6g$1@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #715570 |
john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> wrote: > Odd > “The ‘accretion discs’ are trapped photons >> > > Which emit Xrays? How do photons emit Xrays? ” > > So- your question is, Odd- how can photons give off photons? > Is that correct? > Well, even more than that. DO they do so? Do they do that in the lab? You SHOULD know both the answer and the reason. -- Odd Bodkin -- maker of fine toys, tools, tables
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| From | mitchrae3323@gmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-11-29 18:01 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <838634c3-0156-452b-a89a-9ec94f97f3c7@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #715427 |
On Thursday, November 29, 2018 at 10:55:15 AM UTC-8, john wrote: > The ‘accretion discs’ are trapped photons Gravity cannot trap light waves or put them in orbit. They are what gravity doesn't do. Mitchell Raemsch
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