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Groups > sci.physics > #699525 > unrolled thread

Black holes are out in principle

Started bymitchrae3323@gmail.com
First post2018-08-21 19:45 -0700
Last post2018-08-28 11:51 -0700
Articles 17 on this page of 57 — 7 participants

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  Black holes are out in principle mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-08-21 19:45 -0700
    Re: Black holes are out in principle "reber G=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2018-08-21 20:28 -0700
      Re: Black holes are out in principle mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-08-21 20:32 -0700
      Re: Black holes are out in principle mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-08-21 20:33 -0700
        Re: Black holes are out in principle mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-08-21 22:14 -0700
      Re: Black holes are out in principle Double-A <double-a3@hush.com> - 2018-08-23 16:35 -0700
        Re: Black holes are out in principle mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-08-23 17:54 -0700
        Re: Black holes are out in principle "reber G=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2018-08-24 10:25 -0700
          Re: Black holes are out in principle mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-08-24 13:02 -0700
          Re: Black holes are out in principle Double-A <double-a3@hush.com> - 2018-08-24 14:10 -0700
            Re: Black holes are out in principle mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-08-24 14:11 -0700
            Re: Black holes are out in principle "reber G=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2018-08-28 10:56 -0700
              Re: Black holes are out in principle "hanson" <hanson@quick.net> - 2018-08-28 13:48 -0700
                Re: Black holes are out in principle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-28 14:06 -0700
                  Re: Black holes are out in principle Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-28 21:36 +0000
                    Re: Black holes are out in principle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-28 16:00 -0700
                      Re: Black holes are out in principle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-28 16:14 -0700
              Re: Black holes are out in principle Double-A <double-a3@hush.com> - 2018-08-28 15:05 -0700
          Re: Black holes are out in principle "hanson" <hanson@quick.net> - 2018-08-24 14:30 -0700
            Re: Black holes are out in principle mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-08-25 18:02 -0700
              Re: Black holes are out in principle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-26 07:25 -0700
              Re: Black holes are out in principle mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-08-26 15:36 -0700
                Re: Black holes are out in principle moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-08-27 03:48 +0000
                  Re: Black holes are out in principle mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-08-26 20:58 -0700
                    Re: Black holes are out in principle moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-08-27 04:22 +0000
                      Re: Black holes are out in principle mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-08-26 21:28 -0700
                  Re: Black holes are out in principle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-27 08:57 -0700
                    Re: Black holes are out in principle moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-08-27 16:21 +0000
                      Re: Black holes are out in principle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-27 09:42 -0700
                        Re: Black holes are out in principle moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-08-27 18:14 +0000
                          Re: Black holes are out in principle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-27 11:25 -0700
                            Re: Black holes are out in principle moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-08-27 18:46 +0000
                              Re: Black holes are out in principle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-27 12:07 -0700
                                Re: Black holes are out in principle Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-27 19:27 +0000
                                  Re: Black holes are out in principle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-27 14:26 -0700
                                    Re: Black holes are out in principle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-27 14:31 -0700
                                      Re: Black holes are out in principle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-27 14:40 -0700
                                        Re: Black holes are out in principle Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-27 22:20 +0000
                                          Re: Black holes are out in principle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-27 17:03 -0700
                                            Re: Black holes are out in principle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-27 17:11 -0700
                                              Re: Black holes are out in principle Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-28 01:29 +0000
                                                Re: Black holes are out in principle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-28 05:15 -0700
                                                  Re: Black holes are out in principle Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-28 13:12 +0000
                                                    Re: Black holes are out in principle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-28 06:18 -0700
                                                      Re: Black holes are out in principle Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-28 13:40 +0000
                                                    Re: Black holes are out in principle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-28 06:20 -0700
                                                      Re: Black holes are out in principle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-28 06:30 -0700
                                                        Re: Black holes are out in principle moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-08-28 17:47 +0000
                                                      Re: Black holes are out in principle Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-28 13:40 +0000
                                                        Re: Black holes are out in principle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-28 06:54 -0700
                                                          Re: Black holes are out in principle Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-28 14:58 +0000
                                                            Re: Black holes are out in principle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-28 10:09 -0700
                                                              Re: Black holes are out in principle moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-08-28 17:51 +0000
                                                              Re: Black holes are out in principle Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-28 20:27 +0000
                                                  Re: Black holes are out in principle moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-08-28 17:44 +0000
                                                    Re: Black holes are out in principle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-28 11:12 -0700
                                                      Re: Black holes are out in principle john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-28 11:51 -0700

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#700197

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2018-08-28 01:29 +0000
Message-ID<pm28hl$vis$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#700187
john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> wrote:
> Odd
> But in YOUR world, your ‘fundamental particle’ separates into as many
> little bits as is needed to make a perfectly spherical shell, right?

Nope

> And then none of them go anywhere (what do you call them- ‘shell-ums’?-
> but none of them go anywhere, they just have kinetic energy. Is that right?

Nope 

> And then when there are TWO electrons, that just goes double. Right?

Nope 

> I love your science, Odd.

Can’t love what you don’t understand. 

> 



-- 
Odd Bodkin — Maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#700220

Fromjohn <johnsefton288@gmail.com>
Date2018-08-28 05:15 -0700
Message-ID<4df4348a-9c7d-4364-a89c-10d7770beb69@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#700197
Odd
“Can’t love what you don’t understand. ”
Make me understand how an electron makes a perfectly spherical surface.

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#700225

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2018-08-28 13:12 +0000
Message-ID<pm3ho0$12qd$3@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#700220
john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> wrote:
> Odd
> “Can’t love what you don’t understand. ”
> Make me understand how an electron makes a perfectly spherical surface.
> 

First of all, spherically symmetric does not mean having a spherical
surface. 

And John, I’ve given up on trying to make you understand anything. Because
you cannot read. 

-- 
Odd Bodkin — Maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#700226

Fromjohn <johnsefton288@gmail.com>
Date2018-08-28 06:18 -0700
Message-ID<5f1edf69-db97-49aa-a882-85c379022694@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#700225
Odd
“
First of all, spherically symmetric does not mean having a spherical 
surface. “
Okay now say what it DOES mean.

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#700238

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2018-08-28 13:40 +0000
Message-ID<pm3jcb$15t2$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#700226
john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> wrote:
> Odd
> “
> First of all, spherically symmetric does not mean having a spherical 
> surface. “
> Okay now say what it DOES mean.
> 

See, John, this is why people give up on explaining things to you. There
are a thousand ways to get something wrong and one way to get it right. And
you would rather flail about guessing wrong a hundred times than to do
something simple like googling “spherically symmetric” and doing more than
just look at pictures. You could try READING a short explanation of what
spherically symmetric means and looking through examples that break your
expectations but meet the definitions. 

But you are either too fucking lazy or too fucking stupid to do that. And
so what you’re going to do is stick with one of the thousand wrong ideas
that’s stuck in your head, and call the right ones (that you don’t
understand) mathworld nonsense. 

-- 
Odd Bodkin — Maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#700228

Fromjohn <johnsefton288@gmail.com>
Date2018-08-28 06:20 -0700
Message-ID<3cb9fdee-fc7a-40c7-aa10-1d772c8eeac6@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#700225
Odd
“I’ve given up on trying to make you understand anything. Because 
you cannot read. ”
You haven’t written anything.
Spherically symmetric mean you can bisect it along any plane and the two halves will be identical.

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#700233

Fromjohn <johnsefton288@gmail.com>
Date2018-08-28 06:30 -0700
Message-ID<9a873678-ff2a-4a9c-b7d8-8bb61392984d@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#700228
Me
“Spherically symmetric mean you can bisect it along any plane and the two halves will be identical. ”

Actually, ALL atomic constituents follow spherically symmetric TRAJECTORIES as they SPEED around inside the atom.

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#700258

Frommoroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)
Date2018-08-28 17:47 +0000
Message-ID<pm41qk$g2a$8@pcls7.std.com>
In reply to#700233
john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> writes:

>Actually, ALL atomic constituents follow spherically symmetric TRAJECTORIES

No such thing.

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#700239

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2018-08-28 13:40 +0000
Message-ID<pm3jcc$15t2$2@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#700228
john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> wrote:
> Odd
> “I’ve given up on trying to make you understand anything. Because 
> you cannot read. ”
> You haven’t written anything.
> Spherically symmetric mean you can bisect it along any plane and the two
> halves will be identical.
> 

Right! Which doesn’t say a DAMN THING about a spherical surface. So can you
think of an example that is spherically symmetric but has no surface? I
can. And if you spend just a minute more or so googling, you’ll find one
too. 

-- 
Odd Bodkin — Maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#700243

Fromjohn <johnsefton288@gmail.com>
Date2018-08-28 06:54 -0700
Message-ID<6992cf66-04ce-4e1e-ab49-af8c0c54f5c3@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#700239
Odd
“Right.”
Yes, but you seize on things like the word ‘surface’.
Give me ONE example in the REAL world of spherical symmetry. A picture. Not a hand-wave.

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#700248

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2018-08-28 14:58 +0000
Message-ID<pm3nts$1egu$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#700243
john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> wrote:
> Odd
> “Right.”
> Yes, but you seize on things like the word ‘surface’.

Right, because it’s not the defining characteristic. It’s a bad guess. 

> Give me ONE example in the REAL world of spherical symmetry. A picture. Not a hand-wave.
> 

A dandelion head. 
A non-rotating star. 
The shock wave from an aerial burst. 
A water drop on the ISS. 
The electric field around a charged ping pong ball. 
The dissipating gas cloud around a ball of dry ice in orbit around Saturn. 
The earth’s atmosphere. 

Notice some of these have surfaces and some don’t. 

-- 
Odd Bodkin — Maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#700254

Fromjohn <johnsefton288@gmail.com>
Date2018-08-28 10:09 -0700
Message-ID<b89a624d-30b8-495e-babc-8dcc52cf26de@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#700248
Odd
“dandelion head. “
Definitely not- maybe radial
“A non-rotating star. “
Hahaha. There’s that imagination again. No.
“The shock wave from an aerial burst. “
No.
“A water drop on the ISS. “
Yes! Good one.
“The electric field around a charged ping pong ball.”
Cut it in two and prove that. 
“The dissipating gas cloud around a ball of dry ice in orbit around Saturn. “
No.
“The earth’s atmospher”
No.

One out of seven.
Good.    For you

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#700260

Frommoroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)
Date2018-08-28 17:51 +0000
Message-ID<pm4236$aff$1@pcls7.std.com>
In reply to#700254
john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> writes:

>Odd

>One out of seven.
>Good.    For you

I'd say 6 of 7. The seeds of a dandelion head would be too large and 
produce differences. Ignoring the stem as well, of course.

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#700271

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2018-08-28 20:27 +0000
Message-ID<pm4b8d$imu$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#700254
john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> wrote:
> Odd
> “dandelion head. “
> Definitely not- maybe radial
> “A non-rotating star. “
> Hahaha. There’s that imagination again. No.
> “The shock wave from an aerial burst. “
> No.
> “A water drop on the ISS. “
> Yes! Good one.
> “The electric field around a charged ping pong ball.”
> Cut it in two and prove that. 
> “The dissipating gas cloud around a ball of dry ice in orbit around Saturn. “
> No.
> “The earth’s atmospher”
> No.
> 
> One out of seven.
> Good.    For you
> 

Explain to me the ones you said no to. 

-- 
Odd Bodkin — Maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#700257

Frommoroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)
Date2018-08-28 17:44 +0000
Message-ID<pm41lo$g2a$6@pcls7.std.com>
In reply to#700220
john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> writes:

>Make me understand how an electron makes a perfectly spherical surface.

Schrodinger solution for 1s: psi(r,theta,phi) = Ae^-Br where A and B are
positive constants which depend on nuclear charge, mass etc. 
No theta or phi dependence, so 100% spherically symmetric.

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#700262

Fromjohn <johnsefton288@gmail.com>
Date2018-08-28 11:12 -0700
Message-ID<9a6f0d4f-49d5-4ceb-93b2-7cb2b95538b6@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#700257
MM
“No theta or phi dependence, so 100% spherically symmetric”
And you plot these points one by one and prove what?

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#700264

Fromjohn <johnsefton288@gmail.com>
Date2018-08-28 11:51 -0700
Message-ID<bf1b0b05-bff3-453b-abce-6baff2577733@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#700262
MM
“No theta or phi dependence, so 100% spherically symmetric” 
And you plot these points one by one and prove what? 
”
Answer me.
You plot these points one by one and prove what?

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