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GRAND plans for new neutrino observatory

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  GRAND plans for new neutrino observatory Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-08-20 18:36 -0500
    Re: GRAND plans for new neutrino observatory gilber34 <invalid@invalid.com> - 2015-08-20 19:04 -0500
      Re: GRAND plans for new neutrino observatory Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-08-21 06:02 +0000
        Re: GRAND plans for new neutrino observatory Yousuf Khan <bbbl67@spammenot.yahoo.com> - 2015-08-21 03:09 -0400
          Re: GRAND plans for new neutrino observatory Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-08-21 18:23 +0000
            Re: GRAND plans for new neutrino observatory Yousuf Khan <bbbl67@spammenot.yahoo.com> - 2015-08-24 02:26 -0400
          Re: GRAND plans for new neutrino observatory Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-08-21 18:53 +0000
        Re: GRAND plans for new neutrino observatory HVAC <Mr.HVAC@gmail.com> - 2015-08-21 08:43 -0400
        Re: GRAND plans for new neutrino observatory gilber34 <invalid@invalid.com> - 2015-08-21 08:24 -0500
          Re: GRAND plans for new neutrino observatory Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-08-21 18:33 +0000
            Re: GRAND plans for new neutrino observatory gilber34 <invalid@invalid.com> - 2015-08-21 14:09 -0500
        Re: GRAND plans for new neutrino observatory "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2015-08-21 09:04 -0700
          Re: GRAND plans for new neutrino observatory HVAC <Mr.HVAC@gmail.com> - 2015-08-21 12:23 -0400
          Re: GRAND plans for new neutrino observatory "hanson" <hanson@quick.net> - 2015-08-21 09:42 -0700

#515479 — GRAND plans for new neutrino observatory

GRAND plans for new neutrino observatory
> http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/2015/aug/18/grand-plans-for-new-neutrino-observatory

> A novel radio telescope, currently being designed by scientists in
> France, China and other countries, could shed light on some of the
> most violent cosmic phenomena in the universe. If built, the
> so-called Giant Radio Array for Neutrino Detection (GRAND) –
> comprising hundreds of thousands of antennas spread over an area just
> slightly smaller than the UK – would detect extremely high-energy
> neutrinos originating from deep space. According to the researchers,
> GRAND would be considerably cheaper to build than rival telescopes
> based on optical technology.

> As neutrinos interact so weakly with other matter and can cross the
> universe unimpeded, they can provide valuable information about the
> phenomena via which they were born. Unfortunately, as they are so
> elusive, huge detectors are needed to detect any neutrinos on a
> reasonable timescale.

> Radio array

> The current leading facility, the $275m IceCube detector, uses
> thousands of photomultiplier tubes suspended deep within the ice at
> the South Pole. However, the high cost of photomultiplier tubes
> limits the overall volume of such a detector, thereby setting an
> upper limit on the energy of neutrinos that can be snared –
> especially because the most energetic ones are also the rarest.
> IceCube has bagged about 100 deep-space neutrinos since turning on in
> 2011 and looks set to capture several hundred more over the next
> decade, but is unlikely to detect any having an energy much above
> 1015 eV.

> Rather than detecting light, GRAND will pick up radio signals –
> because radio antennas are cheaper to make than their optical
> equivalents, a much larger detector can be built. The scheme relies
> on tau neutrinos interacting with nuclei as they travel up through
> the Earth, thereby generating tau leptons that produce showers of
> secondary particles as they decay in the atmosphere. The synchrotron
> radiation given off by charged particle showers would be detected by
> the antennas.


-- 

sci.physics is an unmoderated newsgroup dedicated
to the discussion of physics, news from the physics
community, and physics-related social issues.

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#515483

On 8/20/2015 6:36 PM, Sam Wormley wrote:
> GRAND plans for new neutrino observatory
>> http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/2015/aug/18/grand-plans-for-new-neutrino-observatory
>>
>>
>
>> A novel radio telescope, currently being designed by scientists in
>> France, China and other countries, could shed light on some of the
>> most violent cosmic phenomena in the universe. If built, the
>> so-called Giant Radio Array for Neutrino Detection (GRAND) –
>> comprising hundreds of thousands of antennas spread over an area
>> just slightly smaller than the UK – would detect extremely
>> high-energy neutrinos originating from deep space. According to the
>> researchers, GRAND would be considerably cheaper to build than
>> rival telescopes based on optical technology.
>

continued;  (the real problem is noise, broad band noise, lightning, FM 
radio,etc)

Another major challenge will be screening out background interference.
The researchers calculate that for every cosmic neutrino it detects,
GRAND could register as many as a billion events generated by
terrestrial sources – such as commercial radio transmissions or
thunderstorms. To accurately distinguish their signal from the noise,
the researchers are building a prototype array of 35 antennas in the
Tian Shan mountains in north-west China. With results from the prototype
array expected in 2018, and assuming funding can be obtained from China
and other countries, Martineau-Huynh hopes that GRAND might switch on in
2022.

Cosmic nt s can produce t particles underground through charged current 
interaction. ts travel to the surface of the Earth and decay in the 
atmosphere, generating Earth-skimming extensive air showers (EAS)1 [1, 
2]. Coherent electromagnetic radiation is associated to the shower 
development at frequencies of a few to hundreds of MHz at a detectable 
level for showers with E & 1017 eV. The strong beaming of the 
electromagnetic emission combined with the transparency of the 
atmosphere to radio waves will allow the radio-detection of EAS 
initiated by t decays at distances up to several tens of kilometers. 
Radio antennas are thus ideal instruments for this purpose. Furthermore,
they offer practical advantages (limited unit cost, easiness of 
deployment, ...) that allow the deployment of an array over very large 
areas, as required by the expected low neutrino rate.

Remote sites, with low electromagnetic background, should obviously be 
considered for the array location. In addition, mountain ranges are 
preferred, first because they offer an additional target for the 
neutrinos, and also because mountain slopes are better suited to the 
detection of horizontal showers compared to flat areas, parallel to the 
showers trajectories.

GRAND antennas are foreseen to operate in the 30􀀀100MHz frequency band. 
Short wave background prevents detection below this range, and above the 
coherence of the geomagnetic emission fades. However, an extension of 
the antenna response up to 200􀀀300MHz would enable us to observe the 
Cherenkov ring associated with the air shower, that represents a sizable 
fraction of the total electromagnetic signal and may provide an 
unambiguous signature for background rejection.

Another major problem is timing of signal events

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#515509

On Thu, 20 Aug 2015 19:04:54 -0500, gilber34 wrote:

> 
> continued;  (the real problem is noise, broad band noise, lightning, FM 
> radio,etc)
> 

That's why we have to get back to the moon to establish research
bases on the dark side.

Forget about that goddamned useless Mars venture.  We should divert
all Mars resources to a moon project.














> Another major challenge will be screening out background interference.
> The researchers calculate that for every cosmic neutrino it detects,
> GRAND could register as many as a billion events generated by
> terrestrial sources – such as commercial radio transmissions or
> thunderstorms. To accurately distinguish their signal from the noise,
> the researchers are building a prototype array of 35 antennas in the
> Tian Shan mountains in north-west China. With results from the prototype
> array expected in 2018, and assuming funding can be obtained from China
> and other countries, Martineau-Huynh hopes that GRAND might switch on in
> 2022.
> 
> Cosmic nt s can produce t particles underground through charged current 
> interaction. ts travel to the surface of the Earth and decay in the 
> atmosphere, generating Earth-skimming extensive air showers (EAS)1 [1, 
> 2]. Coherent electromagnetic radiation is associated to the shower 
> development at frequencies of a few to hundreds of MHz at a detectable 
> level for showers with E & 1017 eV. The strong beaming of the 
> electromagnetic emission combined with the transparency of the 
> atmosphere to radio waves will allow the radio-detection of EAS 
> initiated by t decays at distances up to several tens of kilometers. 
> Radio antennas are thus ideal instruments for this purpose. Furthermore,
> they offer practical advantages (limited unit cost, easiness of 
> deployment, ...) that allow the deployment of an array over very large 
> areas, as required by the expected low neutrino rate.
> 
> Remote sites, with low electromagnetic background, should obviously be 
> considered for the array location. In addition, mountain ranges are 
> preferred, first because they offer an additional target for the 
> neutrinos, and also because mountain slopes are better suited to the 
> detection of horizontal showers compared to flat areas, parallel to the 
> showers trajectories.
> 
> GRAND antennas are foreseen to operate in the 30􀀀100MHz frequency band. 
> Short wave background prevents detection below this range, and above the 
> coherence of the geomagnetic emission fades. However, an extension of 
> the antenna response up to 200􀀀300MHz would enable us to observe the 
> Cherenkov ring associated with the air shower, that represents a sizable 
> fraction of the total electromagnetic signal and may provide an 
> unambiguous signature for background rejection.
> 
> Another major problem is timing of signal events

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#515512

On 21/08/2015 2:02 AM, Fabian Russell wrote:
> On Thu, 20 Aug 2015 19:04:54 -0500, gilber34 wrote:
>
>>
>> continued;  (the real problem is noise, broad band noise, lightning, FM
>> radio,etc)
>>
>
> That's why we have to get back to the moon to establish research
> bases on the dark side.
>
> Forget about that goddamned useless Mars venture.  We should divert
> all Mars resources to a moon project.

You do realize that the "dark side of the Moon" is not really dark, 
right? It gets its light when the side that faces us, stops receiving 
its light.

	Yousuf Khan

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#515593

On Fri, 21 Aug 2015 03:09:55 -0400, Yousuf Khan wrote:

> 
> You do realize that the "dark side of the Moon" is not really dark, 
> right?
>

What prompts this utterly ridiculous comment???

You do realize that the "dark side" is only a common name for
that particular lunar hemisphere, and it originally referred
to the fact that it was largely unseen and unknown, and hence
"dark."

(Note: The Dark Ages is another name for the medieval historical
period not because the sun failed to shine during that time but
because knowledge of the period was scanty.)

(Note: Africa was known as the Dark Continent not because of its
colored inhabitants but because it was little known by European
civilization.)

Another common name for that lunar hemisphere is the "far" side.

However, the lunar dark side, or far side, or "whatever" side, is
an ideal location for astronomical observations, and especially
radio astronomy, because it is exquisitely shielded from terrestrial
EM emanations.  So it is truly radio dark.

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#516374

On 21/08/2015 2:23 PM, Fabian Russell wrote:
> On Fri, 21 Aug 2015 03:09:55 -0400, Yousuf Khan wrote:
>
>>
>> You do realize that the "dark side of the Moon" is not really dark,
>> right?
>>
>
> What prompts this utterly ridiculous comment???
>
> You do realize that the "dark side" is only a common name for
> that particular lunar hemisphere, and it originally referred
> to the fact that it was largely unseen and unknown, and hence
> "dark."

Alright, fine, my apologies, you wouldn't believe how many people post 
on these newsgroups with ridiculous assumptions, and not even the most 
basic knowledge.

	Yousuf Khan

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#515599

On Fri, 21 Aug 2015 03:09:55 -0400, Yousuf Khan wrote:

> 
> You do realize that the "dark side of the Moon" is not really dark, 
> right? It gets its light when the side that faces us, stops receiving 
> its light.
> 

You do realize that the problem for astronomy is not light but rather
atmospheric scattering, don't you?

On the earth, astronomers must wait until night time to make visible-light
observations because in the day the atmosphere scatters sunlight in all directions.

On the moon, however, visible-wavelength astronomy can be conducted
even in bright sunshine as long as the telescope is pointed away from
the sun.  Only a few degrees of arc would be excluded.  Also, the lack
of atmosphere on the moon results in no distortion.  An observatory on
the moon would give unparalleled resolution.

But radio astronomy would benefit greatly by being located on the
"radio dark" far lunar hemisphere.

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#515531

On 8/21/2015 2:02 AM, Fabian Russell wrote:
> On Thu, 20 Aug 2015 19:04:54 -0500, gilber34 wrote:
>
>>
>> continued;  (the real problem is noise, broad band noise, lightning, FM
>> radio,etc)
>>
>
> That's why we have to get back to the moon to establish research
> bases on the dark side.
>
> Forget about that goddamned useless Mars venture.  We should divert
> all Mars resources to a moon project.


Fuck the moon. We should stop ASAP the manned portion of NASA and divert 
all money into new powerful telescopes and robotic exploration missions.


-- 
"Are we going to fight or are we going to stand around all day?"
https://goo.gl/TU0Xr6

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#515536

On 8/21/2015 1:02 AM, Fabian Russell wrote:
> On Thu, 20 Aug 2015 19:04:54 -0500, gilber34 wrote:
>
>>
>> continued;  (the real problem is noise, broad band noise, lightning, FM
>> radio,etc)
>>
>
> That's why we have to get back to the moon to establish research
> bases on the dark side.
>
> Forget about that goddamned useless Mars venture.  We should divert
> all Mars resources to a moon project.
>
>

agreed, no mars.
rocks and sand in a high radiation environment, with no water, no air, 
1.5 years away.

How can one haul all the water, air and food needed for a 1 year stay of 
1 austronought?  And he will be blind when he comes back.

and what do you do about washing clothes ?  Right Now NASA sends up new 
clothes with every supply mission to the space station, because you 
can't wash clothes in space - water purification energy use is too high-

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#515594

On Fri, 21 Aug 2015 08:24:48 -0500, gilber34 wrote:

>
> agreed, no mars
> 
> How can one haul all the water, air and food needed for a 1 year stay of 
> 1 austronought?  And he will be blind when he comes back.
> 

Yes, but the Martian astronauts will be celebrities. Imagine the great boon
to all the marketing companies who can use the Martian astronauts to sell
Nike shoes, Apple watches, and Noika phones.


>
> and what do you do about washing clothes ?
>

They can impregnate the clothes with silver nanoparticles which will
inhibit bacterial growth.  That way, an astronaut can wear the same
pair of underpants for 18 months or longer.

Don't try it at home, though.

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#515607

On 8/21/2015 1:33 PM, Fabian Russell wrote:
> On Fri, 21 Aug 2015 08:24:48 -0500, gilber34 wrote:
>
>>
>> agreed, no mars
>>
>> How can one haul all the water, air and food needed for a 1 year stay of
>> 1 austronought?  And he will be blind when he comes back.
>>
>
> Yes, but the Martian astronauts will be celebrities. Imagine the great boon
> to all the marketing companies who can use the Martian astronauts to sell
> Nike shoes, Apple watches, and Noika phones.
>

excellent idea! that is why it is worth going there,
not to look at "rocks and sand",
  Marketing,  new advertizing Signs on Mars, "New Coke" in the 
background, or "Exxon".



>
>>
>> and what do you do about washing clothes ?
>>
>
> They can impregnate the clothes with silver nanoparticles which will
> inhibit bacterial growth.  That way, an astronaut can wear the same
> pair of underpants for 18 months or longer.

Google is probably testing that already, "Google Briefs".  that way 
Software coders can stay coding in their cubies longer

>
> Don't try it at home, though.
>

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#515556

On Thursday, August 20, 2015 at 11:03:27 PM UTC-7, Fabian Russell wrote:
> On Thu, 20 Aug 2015 19:04:54 -0500, gilber34 wrote:
> 
> > 
> > continued;  (the real problem is noise, broad band noise, lightning, FM 
> > radio,etc)
> > 
> 
> That's why we have to get back to the moon to establish research
> bases on the dark side.
> 
> Forget about that goddamned useless Mars venture.  We should divert
> all Mars resources to a moon project.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > Another major challenge will be screening out background interference.
> > The researchers calculate that for every cosmic neutrino it detects,
> > GRAND could register as many as a billion events generated by
> > terrestrial sources – such as commercial radio transmissions or
> > thunderstorms. To accurately distinguish their signal from the noise,
> > the researchers are building a prototype array of 35 antennas in the
> > Tian Shan mountains in north-west China. With results from the prototype
> > array expected in 2018, and assuming funding can be obtained from China
> > and other countries, Martineau-Huynh hopes that GRAND might switch on in
> > 2022.
> > 
> > Cosmic nt s can produce t particles underground through charged current 
> > interaction. ts travel to the surface of the Earth and decay in the 
> > atmosphere, generating Earth-skimming extensive air showers (EAS)1 [1, 
> > 2]. Coherent electromagnetic radiation is associated to the shower 
> > development at frequencies of a few to hundreds of MHz at a detectable 
> > level for showers with E & 1017 eV. The strong beaming of the 
> > electromagnetic emission combined with the transparency of the 
> > atmosphere to radio waves will allow the radio-detection of EAS 
> > initiated by t decays at distances up to several tens of kilometers. 
> > Radio antennas are thus ideal instruments for this purpose. Furthermore,
> > they offer practical advantages (limited unit cost, easiness of 
> > deployment, ...) that allow the deployment of an array over very large 
> > areas, as required by the expected low neutrino rate.
> > 
> > Remote sites, with low electromagnetic background, should obviously be 
> > considered for the array location. In addition, mountain ranges are 
> > preferred, first because they offer an additional target for the 
> > neutrinos, and also because mountain slopes are better suited to the 
> > detection of horizontal showers compared to flat areas, parallel to the 
> > showers trajectories.
> > 
> > GRAND antennas are foreseen to operate in the 30􀀀100MHz frequency band. 
> > Short wave background prevents detection below this range, and above the 
> > coherence of the geomagnetic emission fades. However, an extension of 
> > the antenna response up to 200􀀀300MHz would enable us to observe the 
> > Cherenkov ring associated with the air shower, that represents a sizable 
> > fraction of the total electromagnetic signal and may provide an 
> > unambiguous signature for background rejection.
> > 
> > Another major problem is timing of signal events

Reality is we can't even go back to the Mickey Mouse shuttles.Thanks to GOP MAfia NASA. Nixon,Kissenger,and top Mafia man Walter Annenberg killed the great Saturn V. All covered up by GOPers coning "WE the People" TreBert

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#515561

On 8/21/2015 12:04 PM, reber g=emc^2 wrote:
>
> Reality is we can't even go back to the Mickey Mouse shuttles.Thanks
> to GOP MAfia NASA. Nixon,Kissenger,and top Mafia man Walter Annenberg
> killed the great Saturn V.


The 'great Saturn 5' was merely a booster rocket. The shuttle was a 
reusable command module. Now if you want to compare apples to apples it 
would be comparing the shuttle to the Apollo command module.

But you are obviously smart enough to know this. Right Bert?



-- 
"Are we going to fight or are we going to stand around all day?"
https://goo.gl/TU0Xr6

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#515567

<herbertglazier0@gmail.com> Glazier, the Cretin "reber g=emc^2"
now curses the US Mickey Mouse shuttles aand even his 
own ilk  like Nixon, Kissenger,and top Mafia man Walter 
Annenberg  and insists for NASA to buy Swine Glazier's own 
CHEAP "YSS" for  the Mickey Mouse shuttles.
>
hanson wrote:
Glazier, your Swine, you sound like having reflux, SOUR GRAPES,
cuz you blew the chance to get in on that $billion act and lost the 
only chance you ever had to make some money in your sorry life,
when in the 1970's...
>
... NASA commissioned the production of an onboard space toilet
for the SpaceLab and the ISS that cost'em some $25 million, cuz
its recycling procedure was environmentally friendly enough and
did not have the potential to cause AGW & so it was adopted.
(CConsultant Sam Wormley cashed in, took the money and ran)
>
Enter now Swine Glazier, G=EMC^2-Hebe-Herbie, the Jewish
Jailbird, accompanied by the failed Cockroach-repellant-Peddler
kike rect-Al Schwartz, the Uncle, and both of them angrily jumped
up & down as that NASA's gig was being a waste of taxpayers'
money, & then this Jewish Dynamic Duo proposed to NASA a
simple, hygienic, safe and CHEAP Toilet gizmo....
>
... by making a simple padded hole with an adjustable vacuum
valve into the thin wall of the Space vehicle, into/onto which the
astronauts could have placed their elimination orifices, from
where the space's vacuum would have sucked, woofed-n-poofed
their piss and shit out into space, ...
>
... where UV radiation would have quickly sterilized it, even
before it burned up as pretty meteorite flashes up-on
re-entry, which the 2 kikes intended to name "YSS",
====== Yiddisher Shooting Stars ======= 
>
... and these 2 splendid kikes agreed that this would be
THE inconvertible proof that == Jewish shit don't stink ==.
>
US space endeavors could have been so different, so grand! ....
What a pity! What a shame! ..... YOUR fault, Swine Glazier!.

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