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Re: Smokers are smarter, I say.

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  Re: Smokers are smarter, I say. "James Wilkinson Sword" <imvalid@somewear.com> - 2017-04-27 23:58 +0100
    Re: Smokers are smarter, I say. Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-27 16:13 -0700
      Re: Smokers are smarter, I say. "James Wilkinson Sword" <imvalid@somewear.com> - 2017-04-28 01:00 +0100
        Re: Smokers are smarter, I say. Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-27 17:22 -0700
          Re: Smokers are smarter, I say. "James Wilkinson Sword" <imvalid@somewear.com> - 2017-04-28 11:40 +0100
            Re: Smokers are smarter, I say. Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-28 10:30 -0700

#630978 — Re: Smokers are smarter, I say.

On Sat, 15 Apr 2017 01:17:07 +0100, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:

> On 4/14/17, 4:58 PM, in article op.yypl69nhjs98qf@red.lan, "James Wilkinson
> Sword" <imvalid@somewear.com> wrote:
>
> ...>>>>>> And will it run on older hardware?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Of course.  The problem is newer hardware than the OS.
>>>>>
>>>>> Old enough and it does not run well.
>>>>
>>>> Add more memory.  My current machine is 3 years old and will take 4 times as
>>>> much memory as required to run Windows 10 very well.
>>>
>>> Why bring up your relatively new machine?
>>
>> How old will it be when four times the memory is needed for the latest
>> windows?
>>
>> Anyway, a 10 year old machine is shit.  Even if you can run some antiquated OS
>> on it, it hasn't got the power to do much useful.  Get a 6 year old one on
>> freecycle.
>
> I am talking ones which are 10 years old (or so) and older. My wife's which
> is running Linux is that old... and it works fine for our needs.

Luddite.  The shittiest machine I have is a Q8400 quad core with 8GB RAM, an 80GB hard disk, and a Nvidea Geforce 9500.  It does nothing but run SETI, Einstein, Milkyway and Universe.  I'd never use such an old beast to interact with.  It was built from old parts given to me.

>>>>>>> Right now, for example, I have 10 or so year old Mac with a dead hard
>>>>>>> drive. Could get a new hard drive, fight to put it in (Apple does not
>>>>>>> make it easy)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> I remember completely dismantling a macbook clamshell for a memory
>>>>>> upgrade. The corresponding PCs had a flap in the bottom, making it take 2
>>>>>> minutes instead of 2 hours.
>>>>>>
>>>>> This is an iMac... but, yes, it is absurdly difficult to open. I do have a
>>>>> (clean!) plunger I use to remove the screen. Stupid such is even needed
>>>>> though.
>>>>>
>>>> The first thing I always get asked when giving someone an imac is....
>>>> "Where's the bloody power switch?"  After that, "Where's the reset button?"
>>>> and "Where's the hard disk activity LED?"
>>>
>>> I would be surprised if people asked the last... somewhat surprised by the
>>> second... and not at all with the first.:)
>>
>> The last is solved by "disk light" - an extension for Mac OS.  Anybody even
>> mildly technical wanted it.  It's the only way to tell if the machine has
>> crashed or is busy.
>
> Crashed or is busy? OK, Macs have horrid disk access speeds (those with hard
> drives) but they crash only very rarely.

They crash exactly as often as PCs.

> But, sure, I have played with disk
> light or things similar to it years ago... never found the need. Not used it
> in years.

When the mac is unresponsive, it's handy to know if it's hung up or it's waiting for the disk.

>> Why are you surprised at wanting a reset button?  If the machine is very stuck
>> and won't respond to any key or mouse input, why turn it off and back on when
>> you can press one button?
>
> Most people would never think to ask for one and there is rarely if ever a
> need for it. How often does your computer not respond?

Mac or PC, probably once a month nowadays.  But macs didn't have reset buttons back in the days of weekly crashes.

> And even the fan in
> my room has the press-and-hold to reset option. Not really surprising to
> most.

Press and hold the power button, then turn it back on.  Why not just reset the computer?  One click instead of a 4 second click, a pause, then another one.  Mac users are constantly telling PC users they need less button pushes....

>>>>>> Some weird folk seem to like the Mac OS, but they want decent hardware at
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> decent price.  I've built a number of high end PCs to run Mac OS.
>>>>>
>>>>> I tend to use Macs. Right now Apple is insanely out of date with updating
>>>>> most of their hardware, but when you compare what you get compared to other
>>>>> OEMs they are in the ballpark (though you cannot opt OUT of getting
>>>>> something you do not want, say a built in camera). I personally like the OS
>>>>> and the programs that run on it for a lot of things but as with all systems
>>>>> it has pros and cons.
>>>>
>>>> And I bet you still have to pay more for out of date hardware.
>>>
>>> Don't know the current price comparisons, but in the past Apple has rated
>>> well FOR WHAT YOU GET. Does not mean you can get an inexpensive Mac.
>>
>> Nope.  Every time I've compared like for like power, the macs have been about
>> double the price.
>
> Here are the OLD comparisons I have logged... and I included every single
> one people pointed me to (have the requirements on the very ugly page):
>
>     <http://csma.gallopinginsanity.com/prices>
>
> Stopped tracking it after that as formally, but still keep a eye out for
> such articles. The trend seems about the same.
>
>> I even know someone who loved macs and hated windows, but
>> converted to windows solely because of Apple's over inflated prices.
>
> You can get a PC a *lot* cheaper than a Mac. I know people who have moved to
> windows for the same reason.

And yet you're arguing the other way recently....

-- 
The length of women's skirts are directly proportional to the current financial climate.

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#630983

On 4/27/17, 3:58 PM, in article op.yzdl4anmjs98qf@red.lan, "James Wilkinson
Sword" <imvalid@somewear.com> wrote:

>>>> I would be surprised if people asked the last... somewhat surprised by the
>>>> second... and not at all with the first.:)
>>> 
>>> The last is solved by "disk light" - an extension for Mac OS.  Anybody even
>>> mildly technical wanted it.  It's the only way to tell if the machine has
>>> crashed or is busy.
>> 
>> Crashed or is busy? OK, Macs have horrid disk access speeds (those with hard
>> drives) but they crash only very rarely.
> 
> They crash exactly as often as PCs.

Both crash rarely but, as is your norm, you have no support for your claim
of them being exactly the same.

>> But, sure, I have played with disk light or things similar to it years ago...
>> never found the need. Not used it in years.
> 
> When the mac is unresponsive, it's handy to know if it's hung up or it's
> waiting for the disk.

Use the Mac on a desk. Don't hang it. And if you want a disk monitor get
one. Heck, use the built in one. Whatever.

>>> Why are you surprised at wanting a reset button?  If the machine is very
>>> stuck and won't respond to any key or mouse input, why turn it off and back
>>> on when you can press one button?
>>> 
>> Most people would never think to ask for one and there is rarely if ever a
>> need for it. How often does your computer not respond?
>> 
> Mac or PC, probably once a month nowadays.  But macs didn't have reset buttons
> back in the days of weekly crashes.

So you find you have to reset your computer once a month. Me, well, maybe
once a year but I have a Mac. And then I use the reset button to reset it.

>> And even the fan in my room has the press-and-hold to reset option. Not
>> really surprising to most.
> 
> Press and hold the power button, then turn it back on.  Why not just reset the
> computer? 

I cannot reset it instead of resetting it... they are the same.

> One click instead of a 4 second click, a pause, then another one.
> Mac users are constantly telling PC users they need less button pushes....

Who is? And once a year or less when you need to reset you have to press the
reset button for a few seconds. The horror.
 
>>>>>>> Some weird folk seem to like the Mac OS, but they want decent hardware
>>>>>>> at a decent price.  I've built a number of high end PCs to run Mac OS.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I tend to use Macs. Right now Apple is insanely out of date with updating
>>>>>> most of their hardware, but when you compare what you get compared to
>>>>>> other OEMs they are in the ballpark (though you cannot opt OUT of getting
>>>>>> something you do not want, say a built in camera). I personally like the
>>>>>> OS and the programs that run on it for a lot of things but as with all
>>>>>> systems it has pros and cons.
>>>>>> 
>>>>> And I bet you still have to pay more for out of date hardware.
>>>>> 
>>>> Don't know the current price comparisons, but in the past Apple has rated
>>>> well FOR WHAT YOU GET. Does not mean you can get an inexpensive Mac.
>>>> 
>>> Nope.  Every time I've compared like for like power, the macs have been
>>> about double the price.
>> 
>> Here are the OLD comparisons I have logged... and I included every single
>> one people pointed me to (have the requirements on the very ugly page):
>> 
>>     <http://csma.gallopinginsanity.com/prices>
>> 
>> Stopped tracking it after that as formally, but still keep a eye out for
>> such articles. The trend seems about the same.
>> 
>>> I even know someone who loved macs and hated windows, but
>>> converted to windows solely because of Apple's over inflated prices.
>> 
>> You can get a PC a *lot* cheaper than a Mac. I know people who have moved to
>> windows for the same reason.
> 
> And yet you're arguing the other way recently....

In a way you cannot quote, sure. But here is the thing: when you make
include your fantasizes of what I said it makes your stories not very
believable.


-- 
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot
use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow
superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

<https://youtu.be/H4NW-Cqh308>

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#630985

On Fri, 28 Apr 2017 00:13:28 +0100, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:

> On 4/27/17, 3:58 PM, in article op.yzdl4anmjs98qf@red.lan, "James Wilkinson
> Sword" <imvalid@somewear.com> wrote:
>
>>>>> I would be surprised if people asked the last... somewhat surprised by the
>>>>> second... and not at all with the first.:)
>>>>
>>>> The last is solved by "disk light" - an extension for Mac OS.  Anybody even
>>>> mildly technical wanted it.  It's the only way to tell if the machine has
>>>> crashed or is busy.
>>>
>>> Crashed or is busy? OK, Macs have horrid disk access speeds (those with hard
>>> drives) but they crash only very rarely.
>>
>> They crash exactly as often as PCs.
>
> Both crash rarely but, as is your norm, you have no support for your claim
> of them being exactly the same.

My experience shows they crash at the same rate.

>>> But, sure, I have played with disk light or things similar to it years ago...
>>> never found the need. Not used it in years.
>>
>> When the mac is unresponsive, it's handy to know if it's hung up or it's
>> waiting for the disk.
>
> Use the Mac on a desk. Don't hang it. And if you want a disk monitor get
> one. Heck, use the built in one. Whatever.

What's wrong with an LED?  Why did Apple choose not to include one?

>>>> Why are you surprised at wanting a reset button?  If the machine is very
>>>> stuck and won't respond to any key or mouse input, why turn it off and back
>>>> on when you can press one button?
>>>>
>>> Most people would never think to ask for one and there is rarely if ever a
>>> need for it. How often does your computer not respond?
>>>
>> Mac or PC, probably once a month nowadays.  But macs didn't have reset buttons
>> back in the days of weekly crashes.
>
> So you find you have to reset your computer once a month. Me, well, maybe
> once a year but I have a Mac.

Depends what you do with it.  Mine is worked 100% 24/7.

> And then I use the reset button to reset it.

They don't have those.

>>> And even the fan in my room has the press-and-hold to reset option. Not
>>> really surprising to most.
>>
>> Press and hold the power button, then turn it back on.  Why not just reset the
>> computer?
>
> I cannot reset it instead of resetting it... they are the same.

What?

>> One click instead of a 4 second click, a pause, then another one.
>> Mac users are constantly telling PC users they need less button pushes....
>
> Who is?

Mac users, I just told you.

> And once a year or less when you need to reset you have to press the
> reset button for a few seconds. The horror.

I press mine for a fraction of a second.

>>>>>>>> Some weird folk seem to like the Mac OS, but they want decent hardware
>>>>>>>> at a decent price.  I've built a number of high end PCs to run Mac OS.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I tend to use Macs. Right now Apple is insanely out of date with updating
>>>>>>> most of their hardware, but when you compare what you get compared to
>>>>>>> other OEMs they are in the ballpark (though you cannot opt OUT of getting
>>>>>>> something you do not want, say a built in camera). I personally like the
>>>>>>> OS and the programs that run on it for a lot of things but as with all
>>>>>>> systems it has pros and cons.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> And I bet you still have to pay more for out of date hardware.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Don't know the current price comparisons, but in the past Apple has rated
>>>>> well FOR WHAT YOU GET. Does not mean you can get an inexpensive Mac.
>>>>>
>>>> Nope.  Every time I've compared like for like power, the macs have been
>>>> about double the price.
>>>
>>> Here are the OLD comparisons I have logged... and I included every single
>>> one people pointed me to (have the requirements on the very ugly page):
>>>
>>>     <http://csma.gallopinginsanity.com/prices>
>>>
>>> Stopped tracking it after that as formally, but still keep a eye out for
>>> such articles. The trend seems about the same.
>>>
>>>> I even know someone who loved macs and hated windows, but
>>>> converted to windows solely because of Apple's over inflated prices.
>>>
>>> You can get a PC a *lot* cheaper than a Mac. I know people who have moved to
>>> windows for the same reason.
>>
>> And yet you're arguing the other way recently....
>
> In a way you cannot quote, sure.

You forgot what you just wrote?

> But here is the thing: when you make include your fantasizes of what I said it makes your stories not very
> believable.

That is the worst English I've ever seen.

-- 
“What’s the difference between a British and an Iraqi tank?”
“I don’t know.”
“Welcome to the US Air Force.”

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#630989

On 4/27/17, 5:00 PM, in article op.yzdozfovjs98qf@red.lan, "James Wilkinson
Sword" <imvalid@somewear.com> wrote:

> On Fri, 28 Apr 2017 00:13:28 +0100, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 4/27/17, 3:58 PM, in article op.yzdl4anmjs98qf@red.lan, "James Wilkinson
>> Sword" <imvalid@somewear.com> wrote:
>> 
>>>>>> I would be surprised if people asked the last... somewhat surprised by
>>>>>> the second... and not at all with the first.:)
>>>>>> 
>>>>> The last is solved by "disk light" - an extension for Mac OS.  Anybody
>>>>> even mildly technical wanted it.  It's the only way to tell if the machine
>>>>> has crashed or is busy.
>>>>> 
>>>> Crashed or is busy? OK, Macs have horrid disk access speeds (those with
>>>> hard drives) but they crash only very rarely.
>>>> 
>>> They crash exactly as often as PCs.
>>> 
>> Both crash rarely but, as is your norm, you have no support for your claim of
>> them being exactly the same.
> 
> My experience shows they crash at the same rate.

OK, if your "exactly" was just a figure of speech or hyperbole I am with you
-- both crash rarely, maybe once a year or so even under heavy use. Even
then I find the rare crashes I have with OS X are when I am running
Parallels and generally more than one VM.

>>>> But, sure, I have played with disk light or things similar to it years
>>>> ago... never found the need. Not used it in years.
>>>> 
>>> When the mac is unresponsive, it's handy to know if it's hung up or it's
>>> waiting for the disk.
>>> 
>> Use the Mac on a desk. Don't hang it. And if you want a disk monitor get one.
>> Heck, use the built in one. Whatever.
>> 
> What's wrong with an LED?  Why did Apple choose not to include one?

No real value for the majoity of user. And I know I do not like blinking
lights and the like. Heck, I have an external speaker and the NON-blinking
light is covered mostly with white-out. Why the hell would I *want*
something useless blinking and being a distraction.

Would be an interesting study to see how much impact that particular
distraction has on users. I bet you can make a study where it is shown to be
measurable.

>>>>> Why are you surprised at wanting a reset button?  If the machine is very
>>>>> stuck and won't respond to any key or mouse input, why turn it off and
>>>>> back on when you can press one button?
>>>>> 
>>>> Most people would never think to ask for one and there is rarely if ever a
>>>> need for it. How often does your computer not respond?
>>>> 
>>> Mac or PC, probably once a month nowadays.  But macs didn't have reset
>>> buttons back in the days of weekly crashes.
>>> 
>> So you find you have to reset your computer once a month. Me, well, maybe
>> once a year but I have a Mac.
>> 
> Depends what you do with it.  Mine is worked 100% 24/7.

What do you do to get it to crash? For me it is running multiple VMs at the
same time and even then it is very rare.

>> And then I use the reset button to reset it.
> 
> They don't have those.

You use yours a whole lot but do not know where the power / reset button is.
No offense but I assumed you were more technical than that. Most in Usenet
are, but many people in general are not. Sorry for the poor assumption on my
part.

>>>> And even the fan in my room has the press-and-hold to reset option. Not
>>>> really surprising to most.
>>>> 
>>> Press and hold the power button, then turn it back on.  Why not just reset
>>> the computer?
>>> 
>> I cannot reset it instead of resetting it... they are the same.
>> 
> What?

Exactly... makes no sense.

>>> One click instead of a 4 second click, a pause, then another one.
>>> Mac users are constantly telling PC users they need less button pushes....
>> 
>> Who is?
> 
> Mac users, I just told you.

I look forward to the quotes where Mac users told you they can reset their
computers with fewer button pushes. I bet you made that up.

>> And once a year or less when you need to reset you have to press the
>> reset button for a few seconds. The horror.
> 
> I press mine for a fraction of a second.

So it can be pushed accidently. Yuck. That is bad design.

...
>>>> 
>>>> You can get a PC a *lot* cheaper than a Mac. I know people who have moved
>>>> to windows for the same reason.
>>> 
>>> And yet you're arguing the other way recently....
>> 
>> In a way you cannot quote, sure.
> 
> You forgot what you just wrote?

I do! That is why I know you just made up your claims. But you do that a lot
with your trolling.

>> But here is the thing: when you make include your fantasizes of what I said
>> it makes your stories not very believable.
> 
> That is the worst English I've ever seen.

I left in the word "make" -- which is just poor editing. Above you showed
you do not know the difference between "less" and "fewer". In other words:
my error was from carelessness, yours from ignorance.

-- 
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot
use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow
superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

<https://youtu.be/H4NW-Cqh308>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#631050

On Fri, 28 Apr 2017 01:22:19 +0100, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:

> On 4/27/17, 5:00 PM, in article op.yzdozfovjs98qf@red.lan, "James Wilkinson
> Sword" <imvalid@somewear.com> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 28 Apr 2017 00:13:28 +0100, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 4/27/17, 3:58 PM, in article op.yzdl4anmjs98qf@red.lan, "James Wilkinson
>>> Sword" <imvalid@somewear.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>> I would be surprised if people asked the last... somewhat surprised by
>>>>>>> the second... and not at all with the first.:)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> The last is solved by "disk light" - an extension for Mac OS.  Anybody
>>>>>> even mildly technical wanted it.  It's the only way to tell if the machine
>>>>>> has crashed or is busy.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Crashed or is busy? OK, Macs have horrid disk access speeds (those with
>>>>> hard drives) but they crash only very rarely.
>>>>>
>>>> They crash exactly as often as PCs.
>>>>
>>> Both crash rarely but, as is your norm, you have no support for your claim of
>>> them being exactly the same.
>>
>> My experience shows they crash at the same rate.
>
> OK, if your "exactly" was just a figure of speech or hyperbole I am with you

No, a rough estimate.  Could be 25% either way.

> -- both crash rarely, maybe once a year or so even under heavy use.

Depends what you do with them.  Heavy use can be once a month.  Do you run your CPU and GPU flat out 24/7?

> Even
> then I find the rare crashes I have with OS X are when I am running
> Parallels and generally more than one VM.
>
>>>>> But, sure, I have played with disk light or things similar to it years
>>>>> ago... never found the need. Not used it in years.
>>>>>
>>>> When the mac is unresponsive, it's handy to know if it's hung up or it's
>>>> waiting for the disk.
>>>>
>>> Use the Mac on a desk. Don't hang it.

But they're ornaments aren't they?  Form over feature.

>>> And if you want a disk monitor get one.
>>> Heck, use the built in one. Whatever.
>>>
>> What's wrong with an LED?  Why did Apple choose not to include one?
>
> No real value for the majoity of user. And I know I do not like blinking
> lights and the like.

They don't have to particularly bright or aimed directly at you.

> Heck, I have an external speaker and the NON-blinking
> light is covered mostly with white-out. Why the hell would I *want*
> something useless blinking and being a distraction.

It isn't a distraction since it's there all the time.  No more than the clock on your VCR.

> Would be an interesting study to see how much impact that particular
> distraction has on users. I bet you can make a study where it is shown to be
> measurable.

Yes somebody somewhere will waste money on studying anything.

But I find it very useful to determine what the computer is doing.

>>>>>> Why are you surprised at wanting a reset button?  If the machine is very
>>>>>> stuck and won't respond to any key or mouse input, why turn it off and
>>>>>> back on when you can press one button?
>>>>>>
>>>>> Most people would never think to ask for one and there is rarely if ever a
>>>>> need for it. How often does your computer not respond?
>>>>>
>>>> Mac or PC, probably once a month nowadays.  But macs didn't have reset
>>>> buttons back in the days of weekly crashes.
>>>>
>>> So you find you have to reset your computer once a month. Me, well, maybe
>>> once a year but I have a Mac.
>>>
>> Depends what you do with it.  Mine is worked 100% 24/7.
>
> What do you do to get it to crash? For me it is running multiple VMs at the
> same time and even then it is very rare.

Distributed computing.  CPU and GPU running flat out at 70C all day and all night.  The GPU actually come sold as running at 90C, which is ridiculous and would soon kill it.  I changed it to 80C (faster fan settings) but that still crashed too often.  70C seems to make it fairly rare.

>>> And then I use the reset button to reset it.
>>
>> They don't have those.
>
> You use yours a whole lot but do not know where the power / reset button is.
> No offense but I assumed you were more technical than that. Most in Usenet
> are, but many people in general are not. Sorry for the poor assumption on my
> part.

I don't have a Mac.  I supported them, but I don't own one.  Never seen one with a reset button (unless you find a paperclip).  Heck you can buy home made reset buttons on Ebay, so somebody wants them!

>>>>> And even the fan in my room has the press-and-hold to reset option. Not
>>>>> really surprising to most.
>>>>>
>>>> Press and hold the power button, then turn it back on.  Why not just reset
>>>> the computer?
>>>>
>>> I cannot reset it instead of resetting it... they are the same.
>>>
>> What?
>
> Exactly... makes no sense.

One is quicker and easier and more intuitive.

>>>> One click instead of a 4 second click, a pause, then another one.
>>>> Mac users are constantly telling PC users they need less button pushes....
>>>
>>> Who is?
>>
>> Mac users, I just told you.
>
> I look forward to the quotes where Mac users told you they can reset their
> computers with fewer button pushes. I bet you made that up.

Not for resetting, for doing everything.  It's their main gripe about Windows - too complicated.

>>> And once a year or less when you need to reset you have to press the
>>> reset button for a few seconds. The horror.
>>
>> I press mine for a fraction of a second.
>
> So it can be pushed accidently. Yuck. That is bad design.

Why on earth would I accidentally press a button?  It's no more likely than me pressing the switch on the wall socket.  That would have the same effect.  Or before they invented electronically controlled power buttons, the power button.

>>>>> You can get a PC a *lot* cheaper than a Mac. I know people who have moved
>>>>> to windows for the same reason.
>>>>
>>>> And yet you're arguing the other way recently....
>>>
>>> In a way you cannot quote, sure.
>>
>> You forgot what you just wrote?
>
> I do! That is why I know you just made up your claims. But you do that a lot
> with your trolling.

WTF?  Up there you said "You can get a PC a *lot* cheaper than a Mac", yet you're arguing with me ad nauseum that they're the same price.

>>> But here is the thing: when you make include your fantasizes of what I said
>>> it makes your stories not very believable.
>>
>> That is the worst English I've ever seen.
>
> I left in the word "make" -- which is just poor editing.

And wrote fantasizes instead of fantasies.

> Above you showed
> you do not know the difference between "less" and "fewer". In other words:
> my error was from carelessness, yours from ignorance.

Less and fewer mean precisely the same thing.  It's just ungrammatical to use the other one.

-- 
Mental Health Outsourcing -- I was depressed last night so I called Lifeline.  I got a call centre in Pakistan.  I told them I was suicidal.  They got all excited and asked if I could drive a truck.

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#631204

On 4/28/17, 3:40 AM, in article op.yzeilyzgjs98qf@red.lan, "James Wilkinson
Sword" <imvalid@somewear.com> wrote:

...
>>>>>> Crashed or is busy? OK, Macs have horrid disk access speeds (those with
>>>>>> hard drives) but they crash only very rarely.
>>>>>> 
>>>>> They crash exactly as often as PCs.
>>>>> 
>>>> Both crash rarely but, as is your norm, you have no support for your claim
>>>> of them being exactly the same.
>>>> 
>>> My experience shows they crash at the same rate.
>>> 
>> OK, if your "exactly" was just a figure of speech or hyperbole I am with you
>> 
> No, a rough estimate.  Could be 25% either way.
> 
>> -- both crash rarely, maybe once a year or so even under heavy use.
> 
> Depends what you do with them.  Heavy use can be once a month.  Do you run
> your CPU and GPU flat out 24/7?

I run my systems pretty hard, but, no, I am not at my computer every moment
of every day. And neither are you.

>> Even then I find the rare crashes I have with OS X are when I am running
>> Parallels and generally more than one VM.
>> 
>>>>>> But, sure, I have played with disk light or things similar to it years
>>>>>> ago... never found the need. Not used it in years.
>>>>>> 
>>>>> When the mac is unresponsive, it's handy to know if it's hung up or it's
>>>>> waiting for the disk.
>>>>> 
>>>> Use the Mac on a desk. Don't hang it.
> 
> But they're ornaments aren't they?  Form over feature.

I can go into how I think they focus too much on being thin but that is not
even relevant to the conversation.

>>>> And if you want a disk monitor get one.
>>>> Heck, use the built in one. Whatever.
>>>> 
>>> What's wrong with an LED?  Why did Apple choose not to include one?
>> 
>> No real value for the majoity of user. And I know I do not like blinking
>> lights and the like.
> 
> They don't have to particularly bright or aimed directly at you.

Irrelevant. It is still a flashing like. On what all-in-one system is it on
the back where you would not see it?

>> Heck, I have an external speaker and the NON-blinking
>> light is covered mostly with white-out. Why the hell would I *want*
>> something useless blinking and being a distraction.
> 
> It isn't a distraction since it's there all the time.

If it is on all the time it tells you nothing. But it is not. It blinks and
flashes.

> No more than the clock on your VCR.

When people had those the clock was a distraction when it blinked.

>> Would be an interesting study to see how much impact that particular
>> distraction has on users. I bet you can make a study where it is shown to be
>> measurable.
> 
> Yes somebody somewhere will waste money on studying anything.
> 
> But I find it very useful to determine what the computer is doing.

Already covered: if you want it add it to the dock or menu. Most people,
including myself, do NOT want it. It is actually one of the reasons I
dislike many computers... and why I turn things off like the bouncing icons
on the Mac dock. 

>>>>>>> Why are you surprised at wanting a reset button?  If the machine is very
>>>>>>> stuck and won't respond to any key or mouse input, why turn it off and
>>>>>>> back on when you can press one button?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Most people would never think to ask for one and there is rarely if ever
>>>>>> >>>>>> a need for it. How often does your computer not respond?
>>>>>> 
>>>>> Mac or PC, probably once a month nowadays.  But macs didn't have reset
>>>>> buttons back in the days of weekly crashes.
>>>>> 
>>>> So you find you have to reset your computer once a month. Me, well, maybe
>>>> once a year but I have a Mac.
>>>> 
>>> Depends what you do with it.  Mine is worked 100% 24/7.
>>> 
>> What do you do to get it to crash? For me it is running multiple VMs at the
>> same time and even then it is very rare.
> 
> Distributed computing.  CPU and GPU running flat out at 70C all day and all
> night.  The GPU actually come sold as running at 90C, which is ridiculous and
> would soon kill it.  I changed it to 80C (faster fan settings) but that still
> crashed too often.  70C seems to make it fairly rare.

So you overheat your systems... yeah, you might want to rethink doing so.

But curious what type of distributed computing. I used to do things for SETI
and some other projects.

>>>> And then I use the reset button to reset it.
>>> 
>>> They don't have those.
>> 
>> You use yours a whole lot but do not know where the power / reset button is.
>> No offense but I assumed you were more technical than that. Most in Usenet
>> are, but many people in general are not. Sorry for the poor assumption on my
>> part.
> 
> I don't have a Mac.  I supported them, but I don't own one.  Never seen one
> with a reset button (unless you find a paperclip).  Heck you can buy home made
> reset buttons on Ebay, so somebody wants them!

The reset button is just the power button. As with many things hold it for a
couple seconds and it shuts the system down. As I said, I even had a fan in
my office that works like that. It is very common. Not that it cannot lead
to confusion, but given how the general user will never need it I do not see
it as a big deal. And much better than having a button you can accidently
bump into and have your system reset!

>>>>>> And even the fan in my room has the press-and-hold to reset option. Not
>>>>>> really surprising to most.
>>>>>> 
>>>>> Press and hold the power button, then turn it back on.  Why not just reset
>>>>> the computer?
>>>>> 
>>>> I cannot reset it instead of resetting it... they are the same.
>>>> 
>>> What?
>> 
>> Exactly... makes no sense.
> 
> One is quicker and easier and more intuitive.

And far, far easier to accidently hit. Have seen people hit the power button
on their PCs multiple times.

>>>>> One click instead of a 4 second click, a pause, then another one.
>>>>> Mac users are constantly telling PC users they need less button pushes....
>>>> 
>>>> Who is?
>>> 
>>> Mac users, I just told you.
>> 
>> I look forward to the quotes where Mac users told you they can reset their
>> computers with fewer button pushes. I bet you made that up.
> 
> Not for resetting, for doing everything.  It's their main gripe about Windows
> - too complicated.

Well, no doubt for many things macOS offers a more streamlined workflow, but
sounds like you are confusing contexts or making generalizations that do not
apply. The fact macOS tends to be easier to use than Windows does not mean
it will have distracting blinking lights or buttons you can too easily hit
and reset the machine accidently.

>>>> And once a year or less when you need to reset you have to press the
>>>> reset button for a few seconds. The horror.
>>> 
>>> I press mine for a fraction of a second.
>> 
>> So it can be pushed accidently. Yuck. That is bad design.
> 
> Why on earth would I accidentally press a button?

By accident. You sorta provided your own answer. :)

> It's no more likely than me pressing the switch on the wall socket.

If you mean the sockets that actually have switches, like the ones in
bathrooms, people DO sometimes accidently hit those when they plug something
in.

> That would have the same effect.  Or before they invented electronically
> controlled power buttons, the power button.
> 
>>>>>> You can get a PC a *lot* cheaper than a Mac. I know people who have moved
>>>>>> to windows for the same reason.
>>>>> 
>>>>> And yet you're arguing the other way recently....
>>>> 
>>>> In a way you cannot quote, sure.
>>> 
>>> You forgot what you just wrote?
>> 
>> I do! That is why I know you just made up your claims. But you do that a lot
>> with your trolling.
> 
> WTF?  Up there you said "You can get a PC a *lot* cheaper than a Mac", yet
> you're arguing with me ad nauseum that they're the same price.

Other than admitting you are not understanding what you read I am not sure
of your point.

>>>> But here is the thing: when you make include your fantasizes of what I said
>>>> it makes your stories not very believable.
>>> 
>>> That is the worst English I've ever seen.
>> 
>> I left in the word "make" -- which is just poor editing.
> 
> And wrote fantasizes instead of fantasies.

Fair enough.

>> Above you showed
>> you do not know the difference between "less" and "fewer". In other words:
>> my error was from carelessness, yours from ignorance.
> 
> Less and fewer mean precisely the same thing.  It's just ungrammatical to use
> the other one.

We each made errors. OH NO!

-- 
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot
use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow
superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

<https://youtu.be/H4NW-Cqh308>

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