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Electron period

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  Electron period john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-02-13 07:05 -0800
    Electron period HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2017-02-13 07:15 -0800
      Electron period john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-02-13 07:39 -0800
        Electron period HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2017-02-13 08:05 -0800
          Re: Electron period Serg Io <invliad@invalid.com> - 2017-02-13 16:14 -0600
      Re: Electron period benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2017-02-13 16:29 -0500
    Re: Electron period Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-13 09:24 -0600
    Re: Electron period thugstyle103@gmail.com - 2017-02-13 07:44 -0800
    Re: Electron period moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-02-13 15:56 +0000
    Re: Electron period Serg Io <invliad@invalid.com> - 2017-02-13 16:05 -0600
      Re: Electron period john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-02-13 15:54 -0800
        Re: Electron period Serg Io <invliad@invalid.com> - 2017-02-13 18:42 -0600
        Re: Electron period noTthaTguY <abu.kuanysh05@gmail.com> - 2017-02-13 18:25 -0800
          Re: Electron period john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 02:35 -0800
            Re: Electron period Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 06:36 -0600
              Re: Electron period john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 07:10 -0800
                Re: Electron period Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 11:23 -0600
                  Re: Electron period Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 09:46 -0800
                    Re: Electron period john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 09:55 -0800
                      Re: Electron period edprochak@gmail.com - 2017-02-14 11:24 -0800
                      Re: Electron period Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 13:59 -0600
                        Re: Electron period benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2017-02-14 19:41 -0500
                          Re: Electron period Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-15 08:32 -0600
                            Re: Electron period noTthaTguY <abu.kuanysh05@gmail.com> - 2017-02-15 12:14 -0800
                              Re: Electron period john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-02-15 12:23 -0800
                                Re: Electron period Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-15 14:54 -0600
                    Re: Electron period HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 10:57 -0800
                      Re: Electron period Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 11:11 -0800
                        Re: Electron period HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 12:11 -0800
                          Re: Electron period Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 12:52 -0800
                            Re: Electron period HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 13:07 -0800
                              Re: Electron period Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 13:13 -0800
                                Re: Electron period benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2017-02-14 19:36 -0500
                                  Re: Electron period HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 17:02 -0800
                                    Re: Electron period benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2017-02-14 20:33 -0500
                                  Re: Electron period HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 17:02 -0800
                                    Re: Electron period benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2017-02-14 20:33 -0500
                              Re: Electron period benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2017-02-14 19:32 -0500
                          Re: Electron period benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2017-02-14 19:22 -0500
                        Re: Electron period benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2017-02-14 19:21 -0500
                      Re: Electron period benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2017-02-14 19:19 -0500
                  Re: Electron period benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2017-02-14 20:13 -0500
                    Re: Electron period noTthaTguY <abu.kuanysh05@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 18:25 -0800
                    Re: Electron period HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2017-02-15 05:04 -0800
                      Re: Electron period benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2017-02-16 17:08 -0500
                    Re: Electron period Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-15 08:31 -0600
                      Re: Electron period benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2017-02-16 17:29 -0500
            Re: Electron period noTthaTguY <abu.kuanysh05@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 10:01 -0800
          Re: Electron period poraty350@gmail.com - 2017-02-15 23:08 -0800
            Re: Electron period john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-02-16 04:00 -0800
    Re: Electron period dale <dale@dalekelly.org> - 2017-02-13 21:04 -0500
    Re: Electron period pcardinale@volcanomail.com - 2017-02-16 13:20 -0800
      Re: Electron period noTthaTguY <abu.kuanysh05@gmail.com> - 2017-02-16 16:05 -0800
    Re: Electron period Double-A <double-a3@hush.com> - 2017-02-16 14:04 -0800
      Re: Electron period benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2017-02-16 18:35 -0500

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#618425 — Electron period

From
 http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v419/n6909/full/419789a.html
 "Although femtosecond light pulses are still an important scientific tool, they cannot freeze every aspect of atomic motion that is relevant in the structure of matter, just as the photograph fails to capture the details of the baseball. The frontier in ultrafast spectroscopy is the study of the motion of electrons bound inside the atom, in orbits close to the nucleus. This new scale is defined by the time it takes the electron in the innermost orbit of the hydrogen atom to complete one turn around the proton nucleus. The period of this orbit — 24 times 10-18 s, or 24 attoseconds — is at least 100 times shorter than the duration of the shortest laser pulse."

Okay?
The electron goes AROUND the proton
and comes back.
In a repeating motion.
VERY quickly.
And does the electron carry momentum?
And does it take energy to change that
momentum?
So, how can the electron be travelling in
any path other than one that is
repeated exactly every time it goes around?

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#618427

Poor John says

Okay? 
The electron goes AROUND the proton 
and comes back. 
In a repeating motion. 
VERY quickly. 
And does the electron carry momentum? 
And does it take energy to change that 
momentum? 
So, how can the electron be travelling in 
any path other than one that is 
repeated exactly every time it goes around? 
------------

Again you're trying to visualize something that cannot be visualized. An atom and its constituent parts can be described and explained using quantum physics. Be even those who are doing the explaining cannot visualize that which they explain.

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#618432

HVAC
"Again you're trying to visualize something that cannot be visualized. An atom and its constituent parts can be described and explained using quantum physics. Be even those who are doing the explaining cannot visualize that which they explain. "
Yes!
You got it!
The blind leading the blind!

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#618438

Poor John says
HVAC 
"Again you're trying to visualize something that cannot be visualized. An atom and its constituent parts can be described and explained using quantum physics. Be even those who are doing the explaining cannot visualize that which they explain." 

Yes! 
You got it! 
The blind leading the blind!
------------

Eyes are not the only way one can 'see'. However, some people (you and your buddy BJ) can see things that are not really there. God, ghosts, esp, etc.

Never, EVER, question me John 

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#618488

On 2/13/2017 10:05 AM, HVAC wrote:
> Poor John says HVAC "Again you're trying to visualize something that
> cannot be visualized. An atom and its constituent parts can be
> described and explained using quantum physics. Be even those who are
> doing the explaining cannot visualize that which they explain."
>
> Yes! You got it! The blind leading the blind! ------------
>
> Eyes are not the only way one can 'see'. However, some people (you
> and your buddy BJ) can see things that are not really there. God,
> ghosts, esp, etc.
>
> Never, EVER, question me John
>


McFly does this too, believe in things he tries to visualize, water atoms.

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#618480

On 2/13/2017 10:15 AM, HVAC wrote:
> Poor John says
>
> Okay?
> The electron goes AROUND the proton
> and comes back.
> In a repeating motion.
> VERY quickly.
> And does the electron carry momentum?
> And does it take energy to change that
> momentum?
> So, how can the electron be travelling in
> any path other than one that is
> repeated exactly every time it goes around?
> ------------
>
> Again you're trying to visualize something that cannot be visualized. An atom and its constituent parts can be described and explained using quantum physics. Be even those who are doing the explaining cannot visualize that which they explain.
>
John, HVAC can visualize anything. And once he fantasizes it, it then 
becomes truth! That is how his mind works. He has no idea what science 
is, but does know what fantasy is. That's called insane.

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#618430

On 2/13/2017 9:05 AM, john wrote:
> Okay?
> The electron goes AROUND the proton
> and comes back.
> In a repeating motion.
> VERY quickly.
> And does the electron carry momentum?
> And does it take energy to change that
> momentum?

No, it does not take energy to change something's momentum.
In fact, there's a simple theorem that proves that changing the 
direction of the momentum without changing its magnitude CANNOT require 
energy.

The energy exerted by a force is W = F*d*cos(theta)
where theta is the angle between the force F and the displacement d.
When that angle is 90 degrees, the cosine of that angle is zero. And so 
the force changes the direction of the momentum without a lick of energy 
being expended.

This is taught in high school science. Where were you? High on shrooms?

> So, how can the electron be travelling in
> any path other than one that is
> repeated exactly every time it goes around?


-- 
Odd Bodkin -- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#618434

attoboy, yes; all four of the quantum numbers are keplerian;
see Sommerville e.g

> The electron goes AROUND the proton
> and comes back.
> In a repeating motion.
> VERY quickly.
> And does the electron carry momentum?
> And does it take energy to change that
> momentum?
> So, how can the electron be travelling in
> any path other than one that is
> repeated exactly every time it goes around?

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#618437

john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> writes:

> http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v419/n6909/full/419789a.html

That whole article is about using a high energy pulse to kick an electron
out of an inner orbit and measuring the response time for another electron
to fall back into the hole generated, and in the process its energy kicks
out another (Auger) electron and timing that.

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#618486

On 2/13/2017 9:05 AM, john wrote:
"
>
> Okay? The electron goes AROUND the proton and comes back. In a
> repeating motion. VERY quickly. And does the electron carry
> momentum? And does it take energy to change that momentum? So, how
> can the electron be travelling in any path other than one that is
> repeated exactly every time it goes around?

more fundamental, how does the electron know where to go ?

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#618505

Sara
"
more fundamental, how does the electron know where to go ? "

All the electrons turn in the same plane- as
a disc- because they all tell the others
where to be; generating the same
magnetic pole.

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#618511

On 2/13/2017 5:54 PM, john wrote:
> Sara
> "
> more fundamental, how does the electron know where to go ? "
>
> All the electrons turn in the same plane- as
> a disc- because they all tell the others
> where to be; generating the same
> magnetic pole.
>

...spinning pole dancers, got it

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#618526

why should they be planar,
like planets; no reason?

> All the electrons turn in the same plane- as
> a disc- because they all tell the others
> where to be; generating the same
> magnetic pole.

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#618567

Not
"why should they be planar, 
like planets; no reason? 
"
If you have two electrons at any
one instant rotating in a different 
plane, the magnetic fields being
generated will conflict, and they 
will influence each other to come
into line

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#618569

On 2/14/2017 4:35 AM, john wrote:
> Not
> "why should they be planar,
> like planets; no reason?
> "
> If you have two electrons at any
> one instant rotating in a different
> plane, the magnetic fields being
> generated will conflict, and they
> will influence each other to come
> into line
>

This does not translate into "one person's idea is as good as any other 
person's idea".

-- 
Odd Bodkin -- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#618576

Odd
"..babble....idea...babble.."
Odd, electrons create magnetism when they turn.
The atom is on the order of 10^/09m.
The electrons are travelling 30 million meters
per second.
At some point they will have to turn.

Are these the ideas you speak of?

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#618597

On 2/14/2017 9:10 AM, john wrote:
> Odd
> "..babble....idea...babble.."
> Odd, electrons create magnetism when they turn.
> The atom is on the order of 10^/09m.
> The electrons are travelling 30 million meters
> per second.
> At some point they will have to turn.

No they don't. That's the problem. You can only imagine an electron that 
has a fixed trajectory that is either curved or straight. No other 
thinking allowed.

>
> Are these the ideas you speak of?
>

Or lack of them, in your case.


-- 
Odd Bodkin -- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#618606

On Tuesday, February 14, 2017 at 12:23:36 PM UTC-5, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> On 2/14/2017 9:10 AM, john wrote:
> > Odd
> > "..babble....idea...babble.."
> > Odd, electrons create magnetism when they turn.
> > The atom is on the order of 10^/09m.
> > The electrons are travelling 30 million meters
> > per second.
> > At some point they will have to turn.
> 
> No they don't. That's the problem. You can only imagine an electron that 
> has a fixed trajectory that is either curved or straight. No other 
> thinking allowed.
> 
> > Are these the ideas you speak of?
> 
> Or lack of them, in your case.

Besides insulting and discouraging others for free thinking, what ideas 
have you of your own, Odd? No, none of us here are holding our breath.

Somebody repost this question to Odd so his black dark mind might hear it.

> -- 
> Odd Bodkin -- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

-- Mahipal, pronounced "My Pal" or "Maple"... as in Loops, Syrup, Wood. 

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#618608

Yes, Odd, how do your electrons 
behave in order to exhibit the
observed behaviour?

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#618639

On Tuesday, February 14, 2017 at 12:55:09 PM UTC-5, john wrote:
> Yes, Odd, how do your electrons 
> behave in order to exhibit the
> observed behaviour?

Since you were talking about electron spin:
No one electron does not force another to be in line with it.
Two electrons can happily exist in opposite SPIN states.
Remember SPIN is a quantum mechanical property, and
it does NOT imply rotation of the electron.

An external magnetic field can influence the orientation of
the electrons.

As far as orbits, we talk about them like planetary orbits,
but in reality, electrons move in such a way that it is better
to speak of the electron cloud, or electron orbitals. We cannot
observe the path of the electrons moving around the atom. That's
because the photons used to make such an image would change
the path the electron takes. But we can both calculate (via
Quantum Mechanics) and measure the shape of the orbitals.
[The QM calculation and the measurements come up with the
 same shapes.]

Is there some other specific behavior you think modern physics
fails to explain about electrons?

Ed

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