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What Causes the Hubble Redshift (in a Static Universe)

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  What Causes the Hubble Redshift (in a Static Universe) Pentcho Valev <pvalev@yahoo.com> - 2017-02-08 12:09 -0800
    Re: What Causes the Hubble Redshift (in a Static Universe) "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2017-02-08 12:36 -0800
      Re: What Causes the Hubble Redshift (in a Static Universe) benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2017-02-08 17:10 -0500
      Re: What Causes the Hubble Redshift (in a Static Universe) "hanson" <hanson@quick.net> - 2017-02-08 16:08 -0800
    Re: What Causes the Hubble Redshift (in a Static Universe) Alan Folmsbee <omnilobe@gmail.com> - 2017-02-08 15:30 -0800
      Re: What Causes the Hubble Redshift (in a Static Universe) Serg Io <invliad@invalid.com> - 2017-02-08 19:04 -0600
        Re: What Causes the Hubble Redshift (in a Static Universe) noTthaTguY <abu.kuanysh05@gmail.com> - 2017-02-08 21:55 -0800
      Re: What Causes the Hubble Redshift (in a Static Universe) benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2017-02-08 20:05 -0500
        Re: What Causes the Hubble Redshift (in a Static Universe) HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2017-02-10 09:09 -0800
          Re: What Causes the Hubble Redshift (in a Static Universe) benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2017-02-10 17:07 -0500
    Re: What Causes the Hubble Redshift (in a Static Universe) Pentcho Valev <pvalev@yahoo.com> - 2017-02-09 01:17 -0800
      Re: What Causes the Hubble Redshift (in a Static Universe) Pentcho Valev <pvalev@yahoo.com> - 2017-02-10 11:45 -0800
        Re: What Causes the Hubble Redshift (in a Static Universe) noTthaTguY <abu.kuanysh05@gmail.com> - 2017-02-11 11:02 -0800
        Re: What Causes the Hubble Redshift (in a Static Universe) Pentcho Valev <pvalev@yahoo.com> - 2017-02-13 13:35 -0800

#617608 — What Causes the Hubble Redshift (in a Static Universe)

https://asunow.asu.edu/20170208-finding-nothing-conversation-frank-wilczek 
 "Indeed, Wilczek began his lecture by speaking of the profound analogy between materials and vacuum. What our naked senses perceive as empty space turns out to be a riotous environment of virtual particles fluorescing and dying away on extremely small scales of space and time, as well as fog-like fields and condensates, which permeate all space and dictate the properties of elementary particles. To give an analogy for this perplexing new picture of reality, Wilczek asks us to imagine intelligent fish in a world surrounded by water. Such creatures would perceive the water surrounding them as their version of empty space or a vacuum. "The big idea I want to convey is simply this: We're like those fish," he said. What our senses perceive as empty space is better understood as a substance, a material."

http://philpapers.org/rec/DAVQVN 
 Paul Davies: "This leads to the prediction of vacuum friction: The quantum vacuum can act in a manner reminiscent of a viscous fluid." 

https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20927994.100-vacuum-has-friction-after-all 
 New Scientist: "Vacuum has friction after all."

The Hubble redshift is due to the property of vacuum to slow down light - an effect analogous to slowing down moving objects by friction. The idea that vacuum constituents can slow down light is largely discussed, but only in a quantum gravity context: 

http://backreaction.blogspot.fr/2017/01/what-burst-fresh-attempt-to-see-space.html 
 Sabine Hossenfelder: "It's an old story: Quantum fluctuations of space-time might change the travel-time of light. Light of higher frequencies would be a little faster than that of lower frequencies. Or slower, depending on the sign of an unknown constant. Either way, the spectral colors of light would run apart, or 'disperse' as they say if they don't want you to understand what they say. Such quantum gravitational effects are miniscule, but added up over long distances they can become observable. Gamma ray bursts are therefore ideal to search for evidence of such an energy-dependent speed of light." 

It is time to start discussing the parallel idea: that slowing down light by vacuum constituents produces the Hubble redshift (in a STATIC universe): 

http://www.nature.com/news/superfluid-spacetime-points-to-unification-of-physics-1.15437 
 Nature: "As waves travel through a medium, they lose energy over time. This dampening effect would also happen to photons traveling through spacetime, the researchers found." 

For not so distant stars the slowing down of light is expressed as Hubble redshift but beyond a certain distance the star light does not reach us at all (Olbers' paradox).

Pentcho Valev

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#617615

On Wednesday, February 8, 2017 at 12:09:56 PM UTC-8, Pentcho Valev wrote:
> https://asunow.asu.edu/20170208-finding-nothing-conversation-frank-wilczek 
>  "Indeed, Wilczek began his lecture by speaking of the profound analogy between materials and vacuum. What our naked senses perceive as empty space turns out to be a riotous environment of virtual particles fluorescing and dying away on extremely small scales of space and time, as well as fog-like fields and condensates, which permeate all space and dictate the properties of elementary particles. To give an analogy for this perplexing new picture of reality, Wilczek asks us to imagine intelligent fish in a world surrounded by water. Such creatures would perceive the water surrounding them as their version of empty space or a vacuum. "The big idea I want to convey is simply this: We're like those fish," he said. What our senses perceive as empty space is better understood as a substance, a material."
> 
> http://philpapers.org/rec/DAVQVN 
>  Paul Davies: "This leads to the prediction of vacuum friction: The quantum vacuum can act in a manner reminiscent of a viscous fluid." 
> 
> https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20927994.100-vacuum-has-friction-after-all 
>  New Scientist: "Vacuum has friction after all."
> 
> The Hubble redshift is due to the property of vacuum to slow down light - an effect analogous to slowing down moving objects by friction. The idea that vacuum constituents can slow down light is largely discussed, but only in a quantum gravity context: 
> 
> http://backreaction.blogspot.fr/2017/01/what-burst-fresh-attempt-to-see-space.html 
>  Sabine Hossenfelder: "It's an old story: Quantum fluctuations of space-time might change the travel-time of light. Light of higher frequencies would be a little faster than that of lower frequencies. Or slower, depending on the sign of an unknown constant. Either way, the spectral colors of light would run apart, or 'disperse' as they say if they don't want you to understand what they say. Such quantum gravitational effects are miniscule, but added up over long distances they can become observable. Gamma ray bursts are therefore ideal to search for evidence of such an energy-dependent speed of light." 
> 
> It is time to start discussing the parallel idea: that slowing down light by vacuum constituents produces the Hubble redshift (in a STATIC universe): 
> 
> http://www.nature.com/news/superfluid-spacetime-points-to-unification-of-physics-1.15437 
>  Nature: "As waves travel through a medium, they lose energy over time. This dampening effect would also happen to photons traveling through spacetime, the researchers found." 
> 
> For not so distant stars the slowing down of light is expressed as Hubble redshift but beyond a certain distance the star light does not reach us at all (Olbers' paradox).
> 
> Pentcho Valev

Universe is bot static,nor is all that is static.Time goes forward as I type,and spacetime is a curve force. Trebert

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#617628

On 2/8/2017 3:36 PM, reber g=emc^2 wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 8, 2017 at 12:09:56 PM UTC-8, Pentcho Valev wrote:
>> https://asunow.asu.edu/20170208-finding-nothing-conversation-frank-wilczek
>>  "Indeed, Wilczek began his lecture by speaking of the profound analogy between materials and vacuum. What our naked senses perceive as empty space turns out to be a riotous environment of virtual particles fluorescing and dying away on extremely small scales of space and time, as well as fog-like fields and condensates, which permeate all space and dictate the properties of elementary particles. To give an analogy for this perplexing new picture of reality, Wilczek asks us to imagine intelligent fish in a world surrounded by water. Such creatures would perceive the water surrounding them as their version of empty space or a vacuum. "The big idea I want to convey is simply this: We're like those fish," he said. What our senses perceive as empty space is better understood as a substance, a material."
>>
>> http://philpapers.org/rec/DAVQVN
>>  Paul Davies: "This leads to the prediction of vacuum friction: The quantum vacuum can act in a manner reminiscent of a viscous fluid."
>>
>> https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20927994.100-vacuum-has-friction-after-all
>>  New Scientist: "Vacuum has friction after all."
>>
>> The Hubble redshift is due to the property of vacuum to slow down light - an effect analogous to slowing down moving objects by friction. The idea that vacuum constituents can slow down light is largely discussed, but only in a quantum gravity context:
>>
>> http://backreaction.blogspot.fr/2017/01/what-burst-fresh-attempt-to-see-space.html
>>  Sabine Hossenfelder: "It's an old story: Quantum fluctuations of space-time might change the travel-time of light. Light of higher frequencies would be a little faster than that of lower frequencies. Or slower, depending on the sign of an unknown constant. Either way, the spectral colors of light would run apart, or 'disperse' as they say if they don't want you to understand what they say. Such quantum gravitational effects are miniscule, but added up over long distances they can become observable. Gamma ray bursts are therefore ideal to search for evidence of such an energy-dependent speed of light."
>>
>> It is time to start discussing the parallel idea: that slowing down light by vacuum constituents produces the Hubble redshift (in a STATIC universe):
>>
>> http://www.nature.com/news/superfluid-spacetime-points-to-unification-of-physics-1.15437
>>  Nature: "As waves travel through a medium, they lose energy over time. This dampening effect would also happen to photons traveling through spacetime, the researchers found."
>>
>> For not so distant stars the slowing down of light is expressed as Hubble redshift but beyond a certain distance the star light does not reach us at all (Olbers' paradox).
>>
>> Pentcho Valev
>
> Universe is bot static,nor is all that is static.Time goes forward as I type,and spacetime is a curve force. Trebert
>
Treeb you need to learn my BBB theory. It explains it all. Oh Yeah!

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#617648

The <http://tinyurl.com/Recalcitrant-Swine-Glazier> aka
"reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> wrote:
 as I type, spacetime is a curve force of g=emc^2 which
means: 
_"Glazier Exhibits Micro Cephalic Cretinism"_, "O ya"

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#617644

On Wednesday, February 8, 2017 at 10:09:56 AM UTC-10, Pentcho Valev wrote:
> https://asunow.asu.edu/20170208-finding-nothing-conversation-frank-wilczek 
>  "Indeed, Wilczek began his lecture by speaking of the profound analogy between materials and vacuum. What our naked senses perceive as empty space turns out to be a riotous environment of virtual particles fluorescing and dying away on extremely small scales of space and time, as well as fog-like fields and condensates, which permeate all space and dictate the properties of elementary particles. To give an analogy for this perplexing new picture of reality, Wilczek asks us to imagine intelligent fish in a world surrounded by water. Such creatures would perceive the water surrounding them as their version of empty space or a vacuum. "The big idea I want to convey is simply this: We're like those fish," he said. What our senses perceive as empty space is better understood as a substance, a material."
> 
> http://philpapers.org/rec/DAVQVN 
>  Paul Davies: "This leads to the prediction of vacuum friction: The quantum vacuum can act in a manner reminiscent of a viscous fluid." 
> 
> https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20927994.100-vacuum-has-friction-after-all 
>  New Scientist: "Vacuum has friction after all."
> 
> The Hubble redshift is due to the property of vacuum to slow down light - an effect analogous to slowing down moving objects by friction. The idea that vacuum constituents can slow down light is largely discussed, but only in a quantum gravity context: 
> 
> http://backreaction.blogspot.fr/2017/01/what-burst-fresh-attempt-to-see-space.html 
>  Sabine Hossenfelder: "It's an old story: Quantum fluctuations of space-time might change the travel-time of light. Light of higher frequencies would be a little faster than that of lower frequencies. Or slower, depending on the sign of an unknown constant. Either way, the spectral colors of light would run apart, or 'disperse' as they say if they don't want you to understand what they say. Such quantum gravitational effects are miniscule, but added up over long distances they can become observable. Gamma ray bursts are therefore ideal to search for evidence of such an energy-dependent speed of light." 
> 
> It is time to start discussing the parallel idea: that slowing down light by vacuum constituents produces the Hubble redshift (in a STATIC universe): 
> 
> http://www.nature.com/news/superfluid-spacetime-points-to-unification-of-physics-1.15437 
>  Nature: "As waves travel through a medium, they lose energy over time. This dampening effect would also happen to photons traveling through spacetime, the researchers found." 
> 
> For not so distant stars the slowing down of light is expressed as Hubble redshift but beyond a certain distance the star light does not reach us at all (Olbers' paradox).
> 
> Pentcho Valev

Yes, the red shift is due to viscosity of free space.
That viscosity affects masses of protons,
the size limit of a galaxy, and the end of the visible
universe. After 13.8 billion light years, space cannot
be replenished as it is drained for gravity in galaxies.
The space is getting stretched as the universe ages.
Dimension swapping in protons turns space into time. So
the reduced space here looks like a red shift in our
spectrometers that are calibrated to local stretched distances.

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#617660

On 2/8/2017 5:30 PM, Alan Folmsbee wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 8, 2017 at 10:09:56 AM UTC-10, Pentcho Valev wrote:

>
> Yes, the red shift is due to viscosity of free space.
> That viscosity affects masses of protons,
> the size limit of a galaxy, and the end of the visible
> universe. After 13.8 billion light years, space cannot
> be replenished as it is drained for gravity in galaxies.
> The space is getting stretched as the universe ages.
> Dimension swapping in protons turns space into time. So
> the reduced space here looks like a red shift in our
> spectrometers that are calibrated to local stretched distances.
>

  free space is not pizza dough.

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#617705

he's trailblazing the pyschometer ... p.H?

> > Dimension swapping in protons turns space into time. So
> > the reduced space here looks like a red shift in our
> > spectrometers that are calibrated to local stretched distances.
> >
> 
>   free space is not pizza dough.

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#617661

On 2/8/2017 6:30 PM, Alan Folmsbee wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 8, 2017 at 10:09:56 AM UTC-10, Pentcho Valev wrote:
>> https://asunow.asu.edu/20170208-finding-nothing-conversation-frank-wilczek
>>  "Indeed, Wilczek began his lecture by speaking of the profound analogy between materials and vacuum. What our naked senses perceive as empty space turns out to be a riotous environment of virtual particles fluorescing and dying away on extremely small scales of space and time, as well as fog-like fields and condensates, which permeate all space and dictate the properties of elementary particles. To give an analogy for this perplexing new picture of reality, Wilczek asks us to imagine intelligent fish in a world surrounded by water. Such creatures would perceive the water surrounding them as their version of empty space or a vacuum. "The big idea I want to convey is simply this: We're like those fish," he said. What our senses perceive as empty space is better understood as a substance, a material."
>>
>> http://philpapers.org/rec/DAVQVN
>>  Paul Davies: "This leads to the prediction of vacuum friction: The quantum vacuum can act in a manner reminiscent of a viscous fluid."
>>
>> https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20927994.100-vacuum-has-friction-after-all
>>  New Scientist: "Vacuum has friction after all."
>>
>> The Hubble redshift is due to the property of vacuum to slow down light - an effect analogous to slowing down moving objects by friction. The idea that vacuum constituents can slow down light is largely discussed, but only in a quantum gravity context:
>>
>> http://backreaction.blogspot.fr/2017/01/what-burst-fresh-attempt-to-see-space.html
>>  Sabine Hossenfelder: "It's an old story: Quantum fluctuations of space-time might change the travel-time of light. Light of higher frequencies would be a little faster than that of lower frequencies. Or slower, depending on the sign of an unknown constant. Either way, the spectral colors of light would run apart, or 'disperse' as they say if they don't want you to understand what they say. Such quantum gravitational effects are miniscule, but added up over long distances they can become observable. Gamma ray bursts are therefore ideal to search for evidence of such an energy-dependent speed of light."
>>
>> It is time to start discussing the parallel idea: that slowing down light by vacuum constituents produces the Hubble redshift (in a STATIC universe):
>>
>> http://www.nature.com/news/superfluid-spacetime-points-to-unification-of-physics-1.15437
>>  Nature: "As waves travel through a medium, they lose energy over time. This dampening effect would also happen to photons traveling through spacetime, the researchers found."
>>
>> For not so distant stars the slowing down of light is expressed as Hubble redshift but beyond a certain distance the star light does not reach us at all (Olbers' paradox).
>>
>> Pentcho Valev
>
> Yes, the red shift is due to viscosity of free space.
> That viscosity affects masses of protons,
> the size limit of a galaxy, and the end of the visible
> universe. After 13.8 billion light years, space cannot
> be replenished as it is drained for gravity in galaxies.
> The space is getting stretched as the universe ages.
> Dimension swapping in protons turns space into time. So
> the reduced space here looks like a red shift in our
> spectrometers that are calibrated to local stretched distances.
>
Wrong. My BBB theory explains it all. Tried light is wrong. Big Bang is 
Bullshit. (wrong)

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#617908

BJ quacked
Wrong. My BBB theory explains it all. Tried light is wrong. Big Bang is 
Bullshit. (wrong) 
-----------

BJ is joking and making fun of Bert, but he believes that God made the universe as is. 

... And he believes in ghosts

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#617963

On 2/10/2017 12:09 PM, HVAC drooled:
> BJ quacked
> Wrong. My BBB theory explains it all. Tried light is wrong. Big Bang is
> Bullshit. (wrong)
> -----------
>
> BJ is joking and making fun of Bert, but he believes that God made the universe as is.
>
> ... And he believes in ghosts
>
Pathological liar.


And there is a typo that wordsmith HVAC missed: It is "Tired light" not 
"Tried Light". HardBlow is all mouth and no ability. Obviously HVAC does 
not know enough science to have any clue what "tired light" is. Bet Bert 
knows, though! :-)

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#617729

Theoretical physics should be deductive, which means that theoreticians should regularly try to draw conclusions from premises (postulates) that are not certain to be true. In my view, it makes sense to see what cosmology can be deduced from the following two simple postulates (additional premises will be needed of course):

Postulate 1. Once emitted, light never changes its wavelength.

Postulate 2. The following relation is always valid for any observer:

(frequency) = (speed of light)/(wavelength)

The two postulates establish a universal proportionality between measured frequency and (difficult to measure) speed of light.

A few years ago I tried to develop the idea for a FQXi essay contest. Now I don't find my essay well written, and there is a mistake in it concerning Einstein's interpretation of the variability of the speed of light in a gravitational field, but still some arguments could be useful:

http://fqxi.org/data/essay-contest-files/Valev_Shift_in_Frequency_Im.pdf 
 Pentcho Valev, Shift in Frequency Implies Shift in Speed of Light, FQXi essay contest, 2012 − Questioning the Foundations: Which of our basic physical assumptions are wrong?

Pentcho Valev

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#617941

http://www.nature.com/news/superfluid-spacetime-points-to-unification-of-physics-1.15437 
 Nature: "As waves travel through a medium, they lose energy over time. This dampening effect would also happen to photons traveling through spacetime, the researchers found."  x

http://www.eleceng.adelaide.edu.au/thz/documents/davies_2001_cha.pdf 
 Paul Davies: "As pointed out by DeWitt, the quantum vacuum is in some respects reminiscent of the aether, and in what follows it may be helpful to think of space-time as filled with a type of invisible fluid medium, representing a seething background of vacuum fluctuations. Although the mechanical properties of this medium can be strange, and the image should not be pushed too far, it is sometimes helpful to envisage this "quantum aether" as possessing a type of viscosity."

HYPOTHESIS: As the photon travels through the viscous vacuum (in a STATIC universe), it loses speed analogously to a golf ball losing speed due to the resistance of the air. 

On this hypothesis the resistive force (Fr) is proportional to the velocity of the photon (V): 

Fr = - KV 

That is, the speed of light decreases with time in accordance with the equation: 

dV/dt = - K'V 

Clearly, at the end of a very long journey of photons (coming from a very distant object), the contribution to the redshift is much smaller than the contribution at the beginning of the journey. Light coming from nearer objects is less subject to this effect, that is, the increase of the redshift with distance is closer to LINEAR for short distances. For distant light sources we have: 

f' = f(exp(-kt)) 

where f is the initial and f' the measured (redshifted) frequency. (It is assumed that the speed of light and the frequency vary while the wavelength remains unchanged.) For short distances the following approximations can be made: 

f' = f(exp(-kt)) ~ f(1-kt) ~ f - kd/λ 

where d is the distance between the light source and the observer and λ is the wavelength. The equation f'=f-kd/λ is only valid for short distances and corresponds to the Hubble law. The equation f'=f(exp(-kt)) shows that, at the end of a very long journey (in a STATIC universe), photons redshift much less vigorously than at the beginning of the journey. This provides an alternative explanation of the observations that brought the 2011 Nobel Prize for Physics to Saul Perlmutter, Adam Riess and Brian Schmidt. 

Pentcho Valev

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#618122

let's hear from p.v in his own a.s.c.i.i-dot; of course,
this downshifting of light is in concert
with the density of atoms in space, i.e within System soL, and
within Way milkY

> Clearly, at the end of a very long journey of photons (coming from a very distant object), the contribution to the redshift is much smaller than the contribution at the beginning of the journey. Light coming from nearer objects is less subject to this effect, that is, the increase of the redshift with distance is closer to LINEAR for short distances. For distant light sources we have: 
> 
> f' = f(exp(-kt)) 
> 
> where f is the initial and f' the measured (redshifted) frequency. (It is assumed that the speed of light and the frequency vary while the wavelength remains unchanged.) For short distances the following approximations can be made: 
> 
> f' = f(exp(-kt)) ~ f(1-kt) ~ f - kd/λ 
> 
> where d is the distance between the light source and the observer and λ is the wavelength. The equation f'=f-kd/λ is only valid for short distances and corresponds to the Hubble law. The equation f'=f(exp(-kt)) shows that, at the end of a very long journey (in a STATIC universe), photons redshift much less vigorously than at the beginning of the journey. This provides an alternative explanation of the observations that brought the 2011 Nobel Prize for Physics to Saul Perlmutter, Adam Riess and Brian Schmidt. 
> 
> Pentcho Valev

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#618482

Victorious Einsteinians:

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2001/06/tired-light-hypothesis-gets-re-tired 
 "Both the standard expanding-universe and the tired-light theory, they realized, agree that redshifted light should make distant galaxies look dimmer than they really are. In an expanding universe, however, time dilation and other relativistic distortions will also dim distant galaxies, making them appear much fainter than tired-light theory dictates. What's more, young stars - and thus young galaxies - tend to be considerably brighter than old ones. When that extra brightness is taken into account, the observations match expanding-universe predictions, as Lubin and Sandage will report in Astronomical Journal. For the tired-light theory to be correct, young galaxies would have to be dimmer, rather than brighter, than old ones. "The expansion is real. It's not due to an unknown physical process. That is the conclusion," says Sandage. Although not surprising in themselves, the results are useful for "tidying things up in our cosmology," says Michael Pahre, an astronomer at the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics in Cambridge, Massachusetts. Even so, "I don't think it's possible to convince people who are holding on to tired light," says Ned Wright, an astrophysicist at the University of California, Los Angeles. "I would say it is more a problem for a psychological journal than for Science."

The arguments are idiotic (not even wrong), and Einsteinians also suggest that any supporter of the tired-light hypothesis is a psychopath. Needless to say, in the end heretics would rather start believing the relativistic idiocies than see themselves kicked out of universities as psychopaths:

https://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/o/orwell/george/o79n/chapter1.7.html 
 "In the end the Party would announce that two and two made five, and you would have to believe it. It was inevitable that they should make that claim sooner or later: the logic of their position demanded it. Not merely the validity of experience, but the very existence of external reality, was tacitly denied by their philosophy. The heresy of heresies was common sense. And what was terrifying was not that they would kill you for thinking otherwise, but that they might be right. For, after all, how do we know that two and two make four? Or that the force of gravity works? Or that the past is unchangeable? If both the past and the external world exist only in the mind, and if the mind itself is controllable what then?" 

Pentcho Valev

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