Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]


Groups > sci.physics > #607200 > unrolled thread

attosecond science

Started byjohn <johnsefton288@gmail.com>
First post2016-11-29 20:56 -0800
Last post2016-12-05 12:09 -0800
Articles 20 on this page of 87 — 10 participants

Back to article view | Back to sci.physics


Contents

  attosecond science john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-11-29 20:56 -0800
    attosecond science john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-11-29 21:33 -0800
      Re: attosecond science moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-11-30 15:45 +0000
        Re: attosecond science john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-11-30 08:09 -0800
          Re: attosecond science john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-11-30 09:53 -0800
            Re: attosecond science Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-11-30 12:13 -0600
            Re: attosecond science edprochak@gmail.com - 2016-11-30 15:50 -0800
              Re: attosecond science john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-11-30 18:59 -0800
                Re: attosecond science edprochak@gmail.com - 2016-11-30 21:10 -0800
                Re: attosecond science moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-12-01 12:47 +0000
                  Re: attosecond science edprochak@gmail.com - 2016-12-01 07:15 -0800
                  Re: attosecond science john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-12-01 07:24 -0800
                    Re: attosecond science HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-12-01 07:58 -0800
                    Re: attosecond science Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-12-01 10:57 -0600
                      Re: attosecond science john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-12-01 09:10 -0800
                        Re: attosecond science Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-12-01 11:54 -0600
                          Re: attosecond science john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-12-01 10:08 -0800
                            Re: attosecond science Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-12-01 12:40 -0600
                              Re: attosecond science john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-12-01 10:47 -0800
                                Re: attosecond science Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-12-01 13:28 -0600
                                  Re: attosecond science HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-12-01 11:40 -0800
                                Re: attosecond science edprochak@gmail.com - 2016-12-01 11:28 -0800
                                Re: attosecond science Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-12-01 13:32 -0600
                                  Re: attosecond science john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-12-01 12:55 -0800
                                    Re: attosecond science Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-12-01 15:26 -0600
                                      Re: attosecond science john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-12-01 13:36 -0800
                                        Re: attosecond science HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-12-01 13:42 -0800
                                        Re: attosecond science Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-12-01 15:48 -0600
                                          Re: attosecond science john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-12-01 14:19 -0800
                                            Re: attosecond science Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-12-01 16:22 -0600
                                              Re: attosecond science john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-12-01 15:23 -0800
                                                Re: attosecond science john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-12-01 15:47 -0800
                                                  Re: attosecond science john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-12-02 06:34 -0800
                                                    Re: attosecond science Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-12-02 09:43 -0600
                                                  Re: attosecond science Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-12-02 08:43 -0600
                                                    Re: attosecond science john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-12-02 06:53 -0800
                                                      Re: attosecond science moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-12-02 15:15 +0000
                                                      Re: attosecond science Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-12-02 09:44 -0600
                                                      Re: attosecond science HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-12-02 08:12 -0800
                                                        Re: attosecond science john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-12-02 08:56 -0800
                                                          Re: attosecond science Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-12-02 11:31 -0600
                                                            Re: attosecond science Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-12-02 12:09 -0600
                                                              Re: attosecond science john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-12-02 10:36 -0800
                                                                Re: attosecond science Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-12-02 12:42 -0600
                                                                Re: attosecond science Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-12-02 12:55 -0600
                                                                  Re: attosecond science Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-12-02 16:56 -0600
                                                                    Re: attosecond science john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-12-02 15:40 -0800
                                                                      Re: attosecond science HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-12-03 05:35 -0800
                                                                        Re: attosecond science john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-12-03 10:19 -0800
                                                                          Re: attosecond science HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-12-03 13:35 -0800
                                                                            Re: attosecond science john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-12-03 18:24 -0800
                                                                              Re: attosecond science HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-12-03 18:41 -0800
                                                                                Re: attosecond science benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-12-03 22:30 -0500
                                                                          Re: attosecond science moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-12-04 05:36 +0000
                                                                          Re: attosecond science noTthaTguY <abu.kuanysh05@gmail.com> - 2016-12-05 17:50 -0800
                                                                      Re: attosecond science Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-12-05 08:08 -0600
                                                                        Re: attosecond science john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-12-05 08:09 -0800
                                                                          Re: attosecond science Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-12-05 10:24 -0600
                                                                            Re: attosecond science john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-12-05 09:21 -0800
                                                                              Re: attosecond science Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-12-05 11:40 -0600
                                                                                Re: attosecond science john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-12-05 10:01 -0800
                                                                                  Re: attosecond science Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-12-05 12:10 -0600
                                                                                  Re: attosecond science HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-12-05 11:17 -0800
                                                          Re: attosecond science HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-12-02 12:00 -0800
                                                      Re: attosecond science edprochak@gmail.com - 2016-12-02 12:27 -0800
                                                        Re: attosecond science Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-12-02 14:54 -0600
                                                          Re: attosecond science john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-12-02 13:12 -0800
                                                            Re: attosecond science Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-12-02 16:49 -0600
                                                Re: attosecond science Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-12-02 08:40 -0600
                                        Re: attosecond science edprochak@gmail.com - 2016-12-01 14:16 -0800
                            Re: attosecond science edprochak@gmail.com - 2016-12-01 11:25 -0800
                              Re: attosecond science john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-12-01 11:29 -0800
                                Re: attosecond science Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-12-01 13:34 -0600
                                Re: attosecond science edprochak@gmail.com - 2016-12-01 14:13 -0800
                    Re: attosecond science moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-12-01 17:08 +0000
                    Re: attosecond science edprochak@gmail.com - 2016-12-01 11:19 -0800
                  Re: attosecond science Alan Folmsbee <omnilobe@gmail.com> - 2016-12-01 08:31 -0800
              b0s0n is what ... b0s0ns d00 noTthaTguY <abu.kuanysh05@gmail.com> - 2016-12-01 12:15 -0800
                just cahnge the variables, such that b0s0ny is what ... b0s0ns d00 noTthaTguY <abu.kuanysh05@gmail.com> - 2016-12-02 14:02 -0800
          Re: attosecond science moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-11-30 18:07 +0000
            Re: attosecond science noTthaTguY <abu.kuanysh05@gmail.com> - 2016-11-30 12:06 -0800
    attosecond science HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-12-01 11:05 -0800
    Re: attosecond science "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2016-12-05 09:31 -0800
      Re: attosecond science "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2016-12-05 10:02 -0800
        Re: attosecond science "hanson" <hanson@quick.net> - 2016-12-05 12:02 -0800
    Re: attosecond science "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2016-12-05 09:55 -0800
      Re: attosecond science "hanson" <hanson@quick.net> - 2016-12-05 12:09 -0800

Page 1 of 5  [1] 2 3 4 5  Next page →


#607200 — attosecond science

Fromjohn <johnsefton288@gmail.com>
Date2016-11-29 20:56 -0800
Subjectattosecond science
Message-ID<4a382010-eb25-4b10-a7ac-fc060e8e12f2@googlegroups.com>
http://jaslab.ca/atto6_e.html

[toc] | [next] | [standalone]


#607203

Fromjohn <johnsefton288@gmail.com>
Date2016-11-29 21:33 -0800
Message-ID<2d26b7a1-ca94-4144-9b68-29ae167cef0b@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#607200
Only a matter of time before we
find out the real dimensions of
the electron cloud- a disc stretching
to the atoms edge

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#607239

Frommoroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)
Date2016-11-30 15:45 +0000
Message-ID<o1ms7m$8di$1@pcls7.std.com>
In reply to#607203
john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> writes:

>Only a matter of time before we
>find out the real dimensions of
>the electron cloud- a disc stretching
>to the atoms edge

From the shapes of molecules, we already know the shapes electronic
orbitals take.  They aren't discs.  Methane, CH4, for example, has
the central C with a tetrahedral configuration.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#607241

Fromjohn <johnsefton288@gmail.com>
Date2016-11-30 08:09 -0800
Message-ID<6d2d9173-bfca-43a9-9e77-22e07933a1a2@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#607239
Michael
"
From the shapes of molecules, we already know the shapes electronic 
orbitals take.  They aren't discs.  Methane, CH4, for example, has 
the central C with a tetrahedral configuration. "

Yes, I
tried and tried to find a
tetrahedron in the 1:2 pattern-
couldn't do it.
Perhaps it's in a more esoteric
standing wave, like 6:13- I don't know-
I don't have computing power like that.
The model of an electron as a galactic
arm - looking at all the shapes galactic
arms can take- the electron would seem
to be extremely labile.

But it still holds together as an individual 
unit- or does it? Do electrons trade
materials?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#607262

Fromjohn <johnsefton288@gmail.com>
Date2016-11-30 09:53 -0800
Message-ID<ecefa2e8-62d6-492c-ad52-26f9c23803ad@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#607241
Whatever.
The electron has to be travelling at
a significant percentage of the speed of light 
to have periods in the 100 to 1000
attoseconds range.
If it possesses momentum, it must be
like a motorcycle in a barrel- following 
a very specific pathway.
If Michael can show that quantum 
orbitals reflect that, there's no reason
they couldn't be right!

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#607264

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2016-11-30 12:13 -0600
Message-ID<o1n4rp$iln$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#607262
On 11/30/2016 11:53 AM, john wrote:
> Whatever.
> The electron has to be travelling at
> a significant percentage of the speed of light
> to have periods in the 100 to 1000
> attoseconds range.

0.7% of the speed of light, for the electron in a hydrogen atom.
For outer electrons in heavier atoms, it's a lower speed than that. So 
you tell me if 0.7% is "significant" percentage.

> If it possesses momentum, it must be
> like a motorcycle in a barrel- following
> a very specific pathway.

Electrons in bound states in atoms do not have momentum as a measurable 
quantity. In unbound states (outside the atom), they do. No, electrons 
in atoms do not follow a very specific pathway.

> If Michael can show that quantum
> orbitals reflect that, there's no reason
> they couldn't be right!
>


-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#607286

Fromedprochak@gmail.com
Date2016-11-30 15:50 -0800
Message-ID<2315f2c5-d5cb-4ca5-8440-391e884618d2@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#607262
On Wednesday, November 30, 2016 at 12:53:14 PM UTC-5, john wrote:
> Whatever.
> The electron has to be travelling at
> a significant percentage of the speed of light 
> to have periods in the 100 to 1000
> attoseconds range.

Time to put this claim to the test.
Lets take hydrogen
Diameter about 0.106 nanometer (0.106E-10 meter)

Lets take the shorter end of the time range you mentioned
100 attoseconds = 100 * 1E-18 seconds = 1E-16 seconds

lets even give the electron a circular path Circumference=Pi*D
Pathlength = 3.14*0.106E-10 = 0.333E-10 meter

Assume classical macro mechanics V=d/t
first approximation then is
 V= 0.333E-10 meter / 1E-16 seconds
 V= 0.333E+6 m/s

Compare to speed of light C = 3.E+8

V/C = 0.333E+6/3.0E+8 = 0.111E-2
V/C = 0.111%

So even using a classical approximations of
electron orbital motion, the speed is
ONLY little over on tenth of one percent
 of the speed of light.

That's not exactly what I would call
> a significant percentage

> If it possesses momentum, it must be
> like a motorcycle in a barrel- following 
> a very specific pathway.

Here you are still thinking in classical physics terms,
that the electron is a little ball at the end of a string.

> If Michael can show that quantum 
> orbitals reflect that, there's no reason
> they couldn't be right!

The quantum orbitals calculate the position probability.
And the shapes have been verified by experiment.

But it is good to see maybe you are learning something.

Ed

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#607299

Fromjohn <johnsefton288@gmail.com>
Date2016-11-30 18:59 -0800
Message-ID<1ebee0e4-bff1-430b-9e72-42b3dced2ce4@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#607286
Ed
"lets even give the electron a circular path Circumference=Pi*D "

That's the SHORTEST path it could
follow. Therefore the SLOWEST it
can go.
So what's the "lets even.."?
Plus- let's has an apostrophe. 
You English-a-second-language bunch!
Good for you, to try also!!

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#607309

Fromedprochak@gmail.com
Date2016-11-30 21:10 -0800
Message-ID<050c1ad2-1fd8-4667-9aa4-7c9339998379@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#607299
On Wednesday, November 30, 2016 at 9:59:26 PM UTC-5, john wrote:
> Ed
> "lets even give the electron a circular path Circumference=Pi*D "
> 
> That's the SHORTEST path it could
> follow. Therefore the SLOWEST it
> can go.
> So what's the "lets even.."?
> Plus- let's has an apostrophe. 
> You English-a-second-language bunch!
> Good for you, to try also!!

Once again presented with contrary evidence
you follow JM's model and reply with insults.
Please at least try to pretend you are an adult.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#607320

Frommoroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)
Date2016-12-01 12:47 +0000
Message-ID<o1p65a$hm$1@pcls7.std.com>
In reply to#607299
john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> writes:

>Ed
>"lets even give the electron a circular path Circumference=Pi*D "

>That's the SHORTEST path it could
>follow. Therefore the SLOWEST it
>can go.
>So what's the "lets even.."?

So let it take a path three times as long. So now it's moving at .003c 
now. Yawn.

Of course picturing the electron as a little ball moving in a certain
path at .003c still violates Heisenberg and the acceleration/radiation
issue so without good reason there's no use wasting time with that.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#607329

Fromedprochak@gmail.com
Date2016-12-01 07:15 -0800
Message-ID<8a0f9ce5-046d-4cd1-84aa-047859c76aaa@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#607320
On Thursday, December 1, 2016 at 7:47:46 AM UTC-5, Michael Moroney wrote:
> john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> writes:
> 
> >Ed
> >"lets even give the electron a circular path Circumference=Pi*D "
> 
> >That's the SHORTEST path it could
> >follow. Therefore the SLOWEST it
> >can go.
> >So what's the "lets even.."?
> 
> So let it take a path three times as long. So now it's moving at .003c 
> now. Yawn.
> 
> Of course picturing the electron as a little ball moving in a certain
> path at .003c still violates Heisenberg and the acceleration/radiation
> issue so without good reason there's no use wasting time with that.

Yes, John does not recognize quantum mechanics, so I didn't bother
to bring it up again.

Have a good day Michael.

   ed

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#607330

Fromjohn <johnsefton288@gmail.com>
Date2016-12-01 07:24 -0800
Message-ID<e0f63591-6c91-49fa-bb31-f504f7cdb93b@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#607320
Michael"

Of course picturing the electron as a little ball moving in a certain 
path at .003c still violates Heisenberg and the acceleration/radiation 
issue so without good reason there's no use wasting time with that. "

You know electrons don't radiate because...?
You know you can NEVER know because...?

Michael be like, "I know electron can't be
MOVING because then they would
RADIATE and CRASH and STOP moving,
and they DON'T- they KEEP moving,
but we don't know WHERE they're moving TO,
unless we don't know where they're coming
FROM."

Wow. Talking to tards 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#607332

FromHVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com>
Date2016-12-01 07:58 -0800
Message-ID<5c0572fd-7e79-42ad-9a67-f0ba8c5f08d3@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#607330
Johnny boy said
You know electrons don't radiate because...? 
You know you can NEVER know because...? 

Michael be like, "I know electron can't be 
MOVING because then they would 
RADIATE and CRASH and STOP moving, 
and they DON'T- they KEEP moving, 
but we don't know WHERE they're moving TO, 
unless we don't know where they're coming 
FROM." 

Wow. Talking to tards 
-----------

You talking to yourself again?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#607342

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2016-12-01 10:57 -0600
Message-ID<o1pkot$t9k$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#607330
On 12/1/2016 9:24 AM, john wrote:
> Michael"
>
> Of course picturing the electron as a little ball moving in a certain
> path at .003c still violates Heisenberg and the acceleration/radiation
> issue so without good reason there's no use wasting time with that. "
>
> You know electrons don't radiate because...?

Oh, I suppose it's possible that they radiate and then reabsorb energy 
in a way that is completely invisible to experimental observation. You 
can always speculate that something happens that cannot be discovered 
through observation. Like little fairies that preserve the constant 
motion of things, but who are also very good at hiding both themselves 
and their footprints.

But to suppose something that is happening that CANNOT BE TESTED is not 
a scientific hypothesis. An unfalsifiable hypothesis is not scientific. 
It's religious faith.

If you're going to start thinking scientifically, then for every single 
hypothesis you put out there, you have to come up with a way that this 
could be put to observational test, a result that cannot be explained a 
different way.

> You know you can NEVER know because...?
>
> Michael be like, "I know electron can't be
> MOVING because then they would
> RADIATE and CRASH and STOP moving,
> and they DON'T- they KEEP moving,
> but we don't know WHERE they're moving TO,
> unless we don't know where they're coming
> FROM."
>
> Wow. Talking to tards
>


-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#607345

Fromjohn <johnsefton288@gmail.com>
Date2016-12-01 09:10 -0800
Message-ID<7618314e-d5fe-4820-bf53-2d53ea21f4c3@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#607342
Odd
"

Oh, I suppose it's possible that they radiate and then reabsorb energy 
in a way that is completely invisible to experimental observation. You 
can always speculate that something happens that cannot be discovered 
through observation. Like little fairies that preserve the constant 
motion of things, but who are also very good at hiding both themselves 
and their footprints. 
"

Kinda like all the VIRTUAL photons?

Maybe the electrons all radiate something 
only detectable from its impact on
protons
and then the protons give it back?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#607362

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2016-12-01 11:54 -0600
Message-ID<o1po4e$135v$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#607345
On 12/1/2016 11:10 AM, john wrote:
> Odd
> "
>
> Oh, I suppose it's possible that they radiate and then reabsorb energy
> in a way that is completely invisible to experimental observation. You
> can always speculate that something happens that cannot be discovered
> through observation. Like little fairies that preserve the constant
> motion of things, but who are also very good at hiding both themselves
> and their footprints.
> "
>
> Kinda like all the VIRTUAL photons?

Oh, but John, those aren't invisible to experimental observation.
That would be the point. There are, for example, observations about 
scatterings that happen at certain rates at so-and-so distribution of 
angles that you can calculate TO TWELVE DECIMAL PLACES using virtual 
photons, and where if you leave out the virtual photos you can't get the 
answer anywhere close. Those are the footprints of virtual photons. They 
have definite and calculable effects, and the calculations come DIRECTLY 
FROM the model of virtual photons.

Contrast this with your invisible radiations, where you can't do one 
goldarn calculation of ANYTHING that can't be explained without them. 
It's like, "If they're there, they don't have any footprints."

>
> Maybe the electrons all radiate something
> only detectable from its impact on
> protons

WHAT IMPACT on protons? Where is the observation about protons that can 
only be explained by these invisible radiations?

> and then the protons give it back?
>


-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#607363

Fromjohn <johnsefton288@gmail.com>
Date2016-12-01 10:08 -0800
Message-ID<644b9236-3c8a-475d-bdbb-10917d5549e0@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#607362
Odd
"WHAT IMPACT on protons? Where is the observation about protons that can 
only be explained by these invisible radiations? "
Gravity.
Inertia.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#607372

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2016-12-01 12:40 -0600
Message-ID<o1pqr8$183v$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#607363
On 12/1/2016 12:08 PM, john wrote:
> Odd
> "WHAT IMPACT on protons? Where is the observation about protons that can
> only be explained by these invisible radiations? "
> Gravity.
> Inertia.
>

Well, John, let's look at this a couple of different ways.

First, conceptually. Surely you recognize that your "invisible 
radiations" that give rise to gravity and inertia are conceptually 
identical to gravitons. There's nothing you've offered that would 
distinguish yours from those, so in that case you've added nothing. But 
then the issue is that you seem to be blissfully unaware of the problems 
there are in trying to build a quantitative theory of gravitons, which 
would be the same problems with your relabeled Same Things.

Secondly, quantitatively. You say that proton gives back to the 
electrons what the electrons radiate in equal measure. This is so no 
energy is lost and the electrons can stay in their orbits (according to 
you). But the proton has 2000 times as much gravitation as the electron 
and 2000 times more inertia. So how do you explain such a quantitative 
disparity if these radiations account for the gravity of both electrons 
and protons. Secondly, let's compare neutral helium atom (2 protons vs 2 
electrons) and a helium ion (2 protons vs 1 electron). If the electron's 
radiations are responsible for the proton's gravity, wouldn't you expect 
the protons in the helium ion to have half the gravity of the protons in 
the helium atom?

Now, maybe your the kind of person that says, "That's just bookkeeping 
details. I don't worry about figuring out the numbers. I just the 
big-picture concept guy." But it's these kinds of obvious quantitative 
problems that cause physicists to ball up the piece of paper and say, 
"Well, that was an obviously bad idea."

-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#607374

Fromjohn <johnsefton288@gmail.com>
Date2016-12-01 10:47 -0800
Message-ID<64b1bd4a-4dd2-4c4c-a0e7-71c8dcdb7b76@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#607372
Odd
"First, conceptually. Surely you recognize that your "invisible 
radiations" that give rise to gravity and inertia are conceptually 
identical to gravitons. There's nothing you've offered that would 
distinguish yours from those..."

You're wrong.
Gravitons SUCK. They are produced in
INFINITE numbers by matter with NO
impact on the matters energy content-
supposedly. 
My radiations PUSH. 
I have no idea how you confuse
PULL with PUSH?????
How, PD?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#607386

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2016-12-01 13:28 -0600
Message-ID<o1ptku$1coq$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#607374
On 12/1/2016 12:47 PM, john wrote:
> Odd
> "First, conceptually. Surely you recognize that your "invisible
> radiations" that give rise to gravity and inertia are conceptually
> identical to gravitons. There's nothing you've offered that would
> distinguish yours from those..."
>
> You're wrong.
> Gravitons SUCK.

Hold on. What on earth did you read that told you that?

> They are produced in
> INFINITE numbers by matter with NO
> impact on the matters energy content-
> supposedly.

First of all, where are you getting the statement you think is 
"supposedly" true?

Secondly, again we're going to get back to the quantitative problem. 
Since you believe that an infinite number is nonsense, then you 
obviously believe there is a FINITE number of your particles being 
exchanged. Fine. What's that number? Secondly, how do you reconcile 
protons having 2000 times more gravitation and inertia than electrons, 
if protons and electrons swap EQUAL NUMBERS of your particles?

> My radiations PUSH.
> I have no idea how you confuse
> PULL with PUSH?????

See above. Perhaps you have misread something about gravitons. Was it a 
YouTube clip you watched?

> How, PD?

You are confused about whom you're talking with.


-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


Page 1 of 5  [1] 2 3 4 5  Next page →

Back to top | Article view | sci.physics


csiph-web