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Ripples in spacetime do exist but spacetime itself doesn't

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  Ripples in spacetime do exist but spacetime itself doesn't Pentcho Valev <pvalev@yahoo.com> - 2016-06-23 05:13 -0700
    Re: Ripples in spacetime do exist but spacetime itself doesn't edprochak@gmail.com - 2016-06-23 05:58 -0700
      Re: Ripples in spacetime do exist but spacetime itself doesn't john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-06-23 06:07 -0700
        Re: Ripples in spacetime do exist but spacetime itself doesn't ClutterFreak <ClutterFreak@FakeAddress.com> - 2016-06-23 11:43 -0500
          Re: Ripples in spacetime do exist but spacetime itself doesn't moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-06-23 17:33 +0000
            Re: Ripples in spacetime do exist but spacetime itself doesn't Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-06-23 13:04 -0500
              Re: Ripples in spacetime do exist but spacetime itself doesn't john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-06-23 21:36 -0700
              Re: Ripples in spacetime do exist but spacetime itself doesn't noTthaTguY <abu.kuanysh05@gmail.com> - 2016-06-26 21:31 -0700
            Re: Ripples in spacetime do exist but spacetime itself doesn't ClutterFreak <ClutterFreak@FakeAddress.com> - 2016-06-23 17:50 -0500
    Re: Ripples in spacetime do exist but spacetime itself doesn't Pentcho Valev <pvalev@yahoo.com> - 2016-06-25 04:29 -0700

#586304 — Ripples in spacetime do exist but spacetime itself doesn't

Scientists hail LIGO's discovery of ripples in spacetime and at the same time declare that spacetime does not exist and should be "retired":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U47kyV4TMnE 
 Nima Arkani-Hamed (06:11): "Almost all of us believe that space-time doesn't really exist, space-time is doomed and has to be replaced by some more primitive building blocks."

https://edge.org/response-detail/25477 
 What scientific idea is ready for retirement? Steve Giddings: "Spacetime. Physics has always been regarded as playing out on an underlying stage of space and time. Special relativity joined these into spacetime... [...] The apparent need to retire classical spacetime as a fundamental concept is profound..."

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20727721.200-rethinking-einstein-the-end-of-spacetime.html 
 "Rethinking Einstein: The end of space-time [...] The stumbling block lies with their conflicting views of space and time. As seen by quantum theory, space and time are a static backdrop against which particles move. In Einstein's theories, by contrast, not only are space and time inextricably linked, but the resulting space-time is moulded by the bodies within it. [...] Something has to give in this tussle between general relativity and quantum mechanics, and the smart money says that it's relativity that will be the loser."

https://indico.cern.ch/event/375104/page/7290-general-public-session 
 On Saturday July 2nd, 2016, a session for the General Public entitled "Cordes & Maths" ("Mathematics of Superstrings") is organized at Collège de France, in collaboration with the séminaire Poincaré and the Clay Mathematics Institute. 16h45: Nima Arkani-Hamed (IAS, Princeton): "Physics and Mathematics for the End of Spacetime"

Clearly the reality surpasses John Baez's 2008 prediction. Physics is not "deeply schizophrenic" - it is deeply oligophrenic:

https://edge.org/response-detail/11356 
 John Baez 2008: "One of the big problems in physics - perhaps the biggest! - is figuring out how our two current best theories fit together. On the one hand we have the Standard Model, which tries to explain all the forces except gravity, and takes quantum mechanics into account. On the other hand we have General Relativity, which tries to explain gravity, and does not take quantum mechanics into account. Both theories seem to be more or less on the right track - but until we somehow fit them together, or completely discard one or both, our picture of the world will be deeply schizophrenic."

Pentcho Valev

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#586309

On Thursday, June 23, 2016 at 8:14:00 AM UTC-4, Pentcho Valev wrote:
> Scientists hail LIGO's discovery of ripples in spacetime and at the
> same time declare that spacetime does not exist and should be "retired":
> 
Physicists are always looking for better theories.

You really don't understand how science works at all.

I appreciate the references though. If you just tone it down a little,
you might be viewed as less obnoxious than you are now.

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#586313

Atoms are galaxies and galaxies are atoms.
The structure of Space is the same
at each level; looking out from an atom 
one sees the same thing as looking
out from a galaxy.
Simple. Elegant. True.

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#586330

On Thu, 23 Jun 2016 06:07:49 -0700 (PDT), john wrote:

> Atoms are galaxies and galaxies are atoms.
> The structure of Space is the same
> at each level; looking out from an atom 
> one sees the same thing as looking
> out from a galaxy.
> Simple. Elegant. True.

That was my model when I was in 6th grade :) This far
is true: size is real, so we can easily imagine we are
so large that a galaxy would be as small as an atom to
us. Time would be like frozen but for us (the big
ones) it wouldn't matter because we'd be as slow and
used to it. The world around would be like air is to
us now. Then imagine we are magnified one more time so
what we were before is like atom to us. I doubt very
much the physics we know would apply to us there. It
would be immaterial and way too quick and transient to
bother with. Now imagine one more magnification... :)
This is true. Nobody says size as we know it will
change meaning. 
--
   "If you always optimize, you'll never be 
    happy." 
                       - Donald Knuth

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#586337

ClutterFreak <ClutterFreak@FakeAddress.com> writes:

>On Thu, 23 Jun 2016 06:07:49 -0700 (PDT), john wrote:

>> Atoms are galaxies and galaxies are atoms.
>> The structure of Space is the same
>> at each level; looking out from an atom 
>> one sees the same thing as looking
>> out from a galaxy.
>> Simple. Elegant. True.

>That was my model when I was in 6th grade :)

I thought like this as well back then.  Easy enough to do, see a Bohr
model atom in a book and then see a chart of the solar system and go
Hmmmm....

But the question is, why didn't John outgrow that about 55 years ago, like
I and you did?

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#586342

On 6/23/2016 12:33 PM, Michael Moroney wrote:
> ClutterFreak <ClutterFreak@FakeAddress.com> writes:
>
>> On Thu, 23 Jun 2016 06:07:49 -0700 (PDT), john wrote:
>
>>> Atoms are galaxies and galaxies are atoms.
>>> The structure of Space is the same
>>> at each level; looking out from an atom
>>> one sees the same thing as looking
>>> out from a galaxy.
>>> Simple. Elegant. True.
>
>> That was my model when I was in 6th grade :)
>
> I thought like this as well back then.  Easy enough to do, see a Bohr
> model atom in a book and then see a chart of the solar system and go
> Hmmmm....
>
> But the question is, why didn't John outgrow that about 55 years ago, like
> I and you did?
>

You'll probably notice that John doesn't like to read anything more 
involved than a 5th grade level.

-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#586438

Odd insulted and lied
Again

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#586876

yeah, but, now, they've got texting,
sexting and tings

> > I and you did?
> >
> 
> You'll probably notice that John doesn't like to read anything more 
> involved than a 5th grade level.
> 
> -- 
> Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#586356

On Thu, 23 Jun 2016 17:33:00 +0000 (UTC), Michael
Moroney wrote:

> ClutterFreak <ClutterFreak@FakeAddress.com> writes:
> 
>>On Thu, 23 Jun 2016 06:07:49 -0700 (PDT), john wrote:
> 
>>> Atoms are galaxies and galaxies are atoms.
>>> The structure of Space is the same
>>> at each level; looking out from an atom 
>>> one sees the same thing as looking
>>> out from a galaxy.
>>> Simple. Elegant. True.
> 
>>That was my model when I was in 6th grade :)
> 
> I thought like this as well back then.  Easy enough to do, see a Bohr
> model atom in a book and then see a chart of the solar system and go
> Hmmmm....
> 
> But the question is, why didn't John outgrow that about 55 years ago, like
> I and you did?

Yes things were simple until in 7th grade they told us
the shortest distance between two points is not the
straight line. Then cracks began to form. 
--
    "Only he who has learned early to spread 
     his soul out wide may later hold the entire 
     world within himself."

                            - Stefan Zweig

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#586559

Steve Giddings will retire spacetime and will only live for the ripples in the retired spacetime:

https://edge.org/response-detail/25477 
 What scientific idea is ready for retirement? Steve Giddings: "Spacetime. Physics has always been regarded as playing out on an underlying stage of space and time. Special relativity joined these into spacetime... [...] The apparent need to retire classical spacetime as a fundamental concept is profound..."  x

http://www.news.ucsb.edu/2016/016562/einstein-revolution 
 " In celebration of Einstein’s birthday, physicists reflect on the German-born scientist’s work and its impact on the field and on everyday life. “We have good reason to believe general relativity is not a complete theory and, in particular, that it’s going to break down in the context of describing black holes,” said UCSB physics professor Steve Giddings. “That’s very much an important problem in physics today. “The direct observation of gravitational waves from colliding black holes really constrains the possible departures from general relativity that we know are there and limits where modifications can be made,” he continued. “But the discovery is still spectacular and its announcement was one of those moments in science that you live for.” "

This is Einstein schizophrenic world isn't it?

Pentcho Valev

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