Groups > sci.physics > #585254 > unrolled thread

Gravity just "in" mass

Started by	john <johnsefton288@gmail.com>
First post	2016-06-17 01:10 -0700
Last post	2016-06-21 00:51 -0700
Articles	20 on this page of 54 — 14 participants

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  Gravity just "in" mass john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-06-17 01:10 -0700
    Re: Gravity just "in" mass "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-06-17 03:46 -0700
    Re: Gravity just "in" mass moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-06-17 11:12 +0000
      Re: Gravity just "in" mass john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-06-17 05:28 -0700
        Re: Gravity just "in" mass Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2016-06-17 05:53 -0700
          Re: Gravity just "in" mass Double-A <double-a3@hush.com> - 2016-06-17 10:38 -0700
            Re: Gravity just "in" mass Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2016-06-17 19:53 -0700
            Re: Gravity just "in" mass "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-06-17 23:21 -0700
            Re: Gravity just "in" mass HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-06-18 02:52 -0700
              Re: Gravity just "in" mass john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-06-18 05:08 -0700
                Re: Gravity just "in" mass HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-06-18 05:14 -0700
        Re: Gravity just "in" mass moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-06-17 14:54 +0000
          Re: Gravity just "in" mass Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2016-06-17 10:19 -0700
            Re: Gravity just "in" mass moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-06-17 17:37 +0000
              Re: Gravity just "in" mass Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2016-06-18 05:26 -0700
                Re: Gravity just "in" mass moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-06-18 13:59 +0000
                  Re: Gravity just "in" mass Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2016-06-18 07:15 -0700
                    Re: Gravity just "in" mass moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-06-18 14:57 +0000
                      Re: Gravity just "in" mass john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-06-18 08:57 -0700
                        Re: Gravity just "in" mass moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-06-18 19:15 +0000
                          Re: Gravity just "in" mass john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-06-18 12:24 -0700
                            Re: Gravity just "in" mass moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-06-18 19:39 +0000
                              Re: Gravity just "in" mass HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-06-18 13:14 -0700
                                Re: Gravity just "in" mass john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-06-18 16:12 -0700
                                  Re: Gravity just "in" mass john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-06-18 16:22 -0700
                                    Re: Gravity just "in" mass HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-06-18 17:39 -0700
                  Re: Gravity just "in" mass HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-06-18 07:30 -0700
                    Re: Gravity just "in" mass Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2016-06-18 07:55 -0700
                    Re: Gravity just "in" mass "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2016-06-18 18:00 -0700
                      Re: Gravity just "in" mass HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-06-18 18:10 -0700
                Re: Gravity just "in" mass HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-06-18 07:23 -0700
          Re: Gravity just "in" mass "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-06-17 23:25 -0700
            Re: Gravity just "in" mass john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-06-18 00:04 -0700
        Re: Gravity just "in" mass "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-06-17 23:18 -0700
        Re: Gravity just "in" mass jay moseley <jaymoseley@hotmail.com> - 2016-06-18 05:33 -0700
          Re: Gravity just "in" mass HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-06-18 07:26 -0700
    Re: Gravity just "in" mass ClutterFreak <ClutterFreak@FakeAddress.com> - 2016-06-17 09:32 -0500
    Re: Gravity just "in" mass omnilobe@gmail.com - 2016-06-18 06:56 -0700
      Re: Gravity just "in" mass HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-06-18 07:27 -0700
      Re: Gravity just "in" mass noTthaTguY <abu.kuanysh05@gmail.com> - 2016-06-20 18:46 -0700
        onion\newt (how high is the index of refraction, 1.00003, 1.000003 etc. noTthaTguY <abu.kuanysh05@gmail.com> - 2016-06-21 14:16 -0700
    Re: Gravity just "in" mass "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2016-06-18 09:07 -0700
      Re: Gravity just "in" mass HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-06-18 09:27 -0700
      Re: Gravity just "in" mass "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2016-06-21 13:11 -0700
        Re: Gravity just "in" mass "hanson" <hanson@quick.net> - 2016-06-21 15:35 -0700
          Re: Gravity just "in" mass benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-06-21 19:58 -0400
            Re: Gravity just "in" mass "hanson" <hanson@quick.net> - 2016-06-21 22:50 -0700
    Re: Gravity just "in" mass "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2016-06-18 18:27 -0700
      Re: Gravity just "in" mass "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-06-19 00:11 -0700
        Re: Gravity just "in" mass john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-06-19 01:11 -0700
          Re: Gravity just "in" mass moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-06-19 14:44 +0000
            Re: Gravity just "in" mass john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-06-19 07:57 -0700
              Re: Gravity just "in" mass Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2016-06-19 08:56 -0700
          Re: Gravity just "in" mass "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-06-21 00:51 -0700

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#585254 — Gravity just "in" mass

From	john <johnsefton288@gmail.com>
Date	2016-06-17 01:10 -0700
Subject	Gravity just "in" mass
Message-ID	<cafcc521-8bbb-4d9a-ab46-61900b33fa17@googlegroups.com>

What a serious logical disconnect!
How can gravity just be "in" things,
and if you get enough things together,
they all crush each other?

Children!!!!! 
Where do you think that energy
comes from?

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#585260

From	"Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com>
Date	2016-06-17 03:46 -0700
Message-ID	<c37d53b8-25ab-4bf0-a8ab-ce74e11f0156@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#585254

On Friday, June 17, 2016 at 11:10:55 AM UTC+3, john wrote:
> What a serious logical disconnect!
> How can gravity just be "in" things,
> and if you get enough things together,
> they all crush each other?
> 
> Children!!!!! 
> Where do you think that energy
> comes from?
========================================
MASS IN THEMOTHER OF ALL FORCES *INCLUDING GRAVITY !!
=====================================================
=Y.Porat
========================================================

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#585262

From	moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)
Date	2016-06-17 11:12 +0000
Message-ID	<nk0lvp$6ks$2@pcls7.std.com>
In reply to	#585254

john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> writes:

>What a serious logical disconnect!
>How can gravity just be "in" things,
>and if you get enough things together,
>they all crush each other?

>Children!!!!! 
>Where do you think that energy
>comes from?

Get the energy by integrating F.x with the limits of integration being
infinity and the event horizon, to see what *all that energy* is.
Show us the math!

We know the force is inversely proportional to the square of the
distance, as I just pointed out.  If you believe there is a force that
can resist even that (when even nuclear degeneracy pressure has failed),
Show us the physics!

Real physics, too.  Don't just pull fractal spinny things out of your
ass.

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#585269

From	john <johnsefton288@gmail.com>
Date	2016-06-17 05:28 -0700
Message-ID	<c4d28071-9248-452a-a91f-b5ac0d0b5c6e@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#585262

The question- where does the energy
come from?

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#585273

From	Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com>
Date	2016-06-17 05:53 -0700
Message-ID	<1997a989-405f-4a0b-805f-7dc949b9e4a6@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#585269

On Friday, June 17, 2016 at 8:28:13 AM UTC-4, john wrote:
> The question- where does the energy come from?

Good Morning JohnJi.

Energy can neither be created nor destroyed, per the First Law of
Thermodynamics (FLTD). How useful is the FLTD? Right?!...

My favourite TD professor at UMCP used to start and end most of his
lectures with: You can forget your name but never forget the FLTD!

Ergo, energy has always been and will forever be.

-- Mahipal “IPMM... माहिपाल ७६३८: d(me) != 0 ... me alwa(y)s changes...”

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#585297

From	Double-A <double-a3@hush.com>
Date	2016-06-17 10:38 -0700
Message-ID	<8eea14d2-7e95-46a8-ab8c-554a7fc95193@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#585273

On Friday, June 17, 2016 at 5:53:48 AM UTC-7, Mahipal wrote:
> On Friday, June 17, 2016 at 8:28:13 AM UTC-4, john wrote:
> > The question- where does the energy come from?
> 
> Good Morning JohnJi.
> 
> Energy can neither be created nor destroyed, per the First Law of
> Thermodynamics (FLTD). How useful is the FLTD? Right?!...
> 
> My favourite TD professor at UMCP used to start and end most of his
> lectures with: You can forget your name but never forget the FLTD!
> 
> Ergo, energy has always been and will forever be.
> 
> -- Mahipal “IPMM... माहिपाल ७६३८: d(me) != 0 ... me alwa(y)s changes...”


If you believe that the universe is expanding, then gravitational energy is being created!

Double-A

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#585374

From	Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com>
Date	2016-06-17 19:53 -0700
Message-ID	<e41996b6-c326-46c1-be49-e763403f3297@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#585297

On Friday, June 17, 2016 at 1:38:06 PM UTC-4, Double-A wrote:
> On Friday, June 17, 2016 at 5:53:48 AM UTC-7, Mahipal wrote:
> > On Friday, June 17, 2016 at 8:28:13 AM UTC-4, john wrote:
> > > The question- where does the energy come from?
> > 
> > Good Morning JohnJi.
> > 
> > Energy can neither be created nor destroyed, per the First Law of
> > Thermodynamics (FLTD). How useful is the FLTD? Right?!...
> > 
> > My favourite TD professor at UMCP used to start and end most of his
> > lectures with: You can forget your name but never forget the FLTD!
> > 
> > Ergo, energy has always been and will forever be.
> > 
> > -- Mahipal “IPMM... माहिपाल ७६३८: d(me) != 0 ... me alwa(y)s changes...”
> 
> If you believe that the universe is expanding, then gravitational energy is being created!
> 
> Double-A

I recall this idea that the total energy in the Universe is zero==0. 
Always has been, and always will be. It would take me a long time to
cite the source. Back in college, I read it. Still, great thought that.

Energy is conserved, 0 or 1 or some other number. Neat Vodka, Idea.

On the lighter side of a fun and better actual human day's life...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PCxTGZynpo Voice of R.D. Burman.
Listen to the flute/strings/tabla/... The sex(y) dancer is Helen.

Sholay means Sparks. To me R.D. Burman is the Hindu Mozart. Anyhoo...
RDB has over 786 great songs, what a composer! RDB died around 1994,
at age 52 or so. Young. I cried. If my heros keep dying, I swear...

Not that anyone asked, that character in the green shirt is Khan, and is
the proverbial evil stalking our Earth. Star Trek... Captain Kirk, Khan?!
Actually his name was Gabbar Singh, not Khan, in the movie. Same idea.

-- Mahipal “IPMM... माहिपाल ७६३८: d(me) != 0 ... me alwa(y)s changes...”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMylx20IoxY spies guns jokes...
Sholay is considered to be one the greatest classics of Indian cinema
... Watch Amjad Khan doing Gabbar Singh's Dialogue...
I shall try find a version with subtitles, English, Urdu, or ...youKnow.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfm0Y5RR8P0 The Hitler Jokes here... 
Nein minutes with English subtitles... Nein=Nine=9... Tough crowd...

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#585394

From	"Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com>
Date	2016-06-17 23:21 -0700
Message-ID	<8bbe4597-46a5-48c1-b422-25486eda9661@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#585297

On Friday, June 17, 2016 at 8:38:06 PM UTC+3, Double-A wrote:
> On Friday, June 17, 2016 at 5:53:48 AM UTC-7, Mahipal wrote:
> > On Friday, June 17, 2016 at 8:28:13 AM UTC-4, john wrote:
> > > The question- where does the energy come from?
> > 
> > Good Morning JohnJi.
> > 
> > Energy can neither be created nor destroyed, per the First Law of
> > Thermodynamics (FLTD). How useful is the FLTD? Right?!...
> > 
> > My favourite TD professor at UMCP used to start and end most of his
> > lectures with: You can forget your name but never forget the FLTD!
> > 
> > Ergo, energy has always been and will forever be.
> > 
> > -- Mahipal “IPMM... माहिपाल ७६३८: d(me) != 0 ... me alwa(y)s changes...”
> 
> 
> If you believe that the universe is expanding, then gravitational energy is being created!
----------------------------------------------
==============================================
why didn't you add the ? !!!   mark at the end of your sentence (:)
==============================
Y.Porat
================================================

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#585408

From	HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com>
Date	2016-06-18 02:52 -0700
Message-ID	<6faa7d4c-863b-4cad-81bb-c217de5c1bff@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#585297

Double-A
- show quoted text -
If you believe that the universe is expanding, then gravitational energy is being created! 
-------------

Hogwash. The expansion of the universe is simply a property of space. All the energy that will ever exist was present at the moment of the big bang

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#585413

From	john <johnsefton288@gmail.com>
Date	2016-06-18 05:08 -0700
Message-ID	<a45b1f4e-9789-41f1-86b8-e94112152f8f@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#585408

Oh, really?

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#585416

From	HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com>
Date	2016-06-18 05:14 -0700
Message-ID	<84190eb3-c18b-4b28-bf3c-0182dc6bf14c@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#585413

john
Oh, really? 
-------

Obviously

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#585282

From	moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)
Date	2016-06-17 14:54 +0000
Message-ID	<nk1300$o5p$1@pcls7.std.com>
In reply to	#585269

john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> writes:

>The question- where does the energy
>come from?

E=mc^2.

Some of the mass of everyday objects is its gravitational potential energy 
from the rest of the universe.

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#585294

From	Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com>
Date	2016-06-17 10:19 -0700
Message-ID	<943675f5-9e6f-4cdb-9c81-3ea3aceea262@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#585282

On Friday, June 17, 2016 at 10:55:41 AM UTC-4, Michael Moroney wrote:
> john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> writes:
> 
> >The question- where does the energy
> >come from?
> 
> E=mc^2.

Moron Michael Moroney, in a word, no No NO. I mean, No!

> Some of the mass of everyday objects is its gravitational potential energy 
> from the rest of the universe.

Say what MMM?! The Word Salad Group is left of right. Slight U-Turn. Be one there...

-- Mahipal “IPMM... माहिपाल ७६३८: d(me) != 0 ... me alwa(y)s changes...”

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#585296

From	moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)
Date	2016-06-17 17:37 +0000
Message-ID	<nk1cgg$ia6$1@pcls7.std.com>
In reply to	#585294

Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> writes:

>Say what MMM?! The Word Salad Group is left of right. Slight U-Turn. Be one
> there...

You are confused, Maple Loops.  John is the Word Salad expert, not I.
He can toss a mean one for you!

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#585419

From	Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com>
Date	2016-06-18 05:26 -0700
Message-ID	<64507ede-0f29-44ba-9a80-1c4948241c92@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#585296

On Friday, June 17, 2016 at 1:38:04 PM UTC-4, Michael Moroney wrote:
> Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> writes:
> 
> >Say what MMM?! The Word Salad Group is left of right. Slight U-Turn. Be one
> > there...
> 
> You are confused, Maple Loops.  John is the Word Salad expert, not I.
> He can toss a mean one for you!

Of course I am confused. I was born confused. I admit/remain being confused.

John presents neat unique ideas, you MMM just stomp on John. Let it go.

Maple Loops?! That name is going to be mine forever. Thanks Charlie!
https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=maple+loops+song Harper Sheen.
If I was going to lie I'd say I wrote Stairway To Heaven... maple- licious...

I like JohnJi! I like his fractals, his John's Limit. His wit/kindness.
JohnJi owes me a Molson or two. I swear, what I wouldn't do for a beer. 
Norm! Cheers... where everybody knows you're Sam Alone... Get it?!

MMM, at some point in life... you have to paint your own pictures, with
words or otherwise, than just attempt trash those of others. Capisce
(pronounced cah-PEESH)? In Hindi, Samjha? K(y)a Samjha, nahin Samjha...

-- Mahipal “IPMM... माहिपाल ७६३८: d(me) != 0 ... me alwa(y)s changes...”

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#585438

From	moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)
Date	2016-06-18 13:59 +0000
Message-ID	<nk3k3p$5hj$3@pcls7.std.com>
In reply to	#585419

Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> writes:

>John presents neat unique ideas, you MMM just stomp on John. Let it go.

John does have interesting ideas.  If he directed them properly it would
be great.  But they just aren't physics. In fact, John hates physics. I
still don't know why he hangs around in a group dedicated to something he
hates, much less "contribute" to it. Unless his contributions are an 
attempt to sabotage physics somehow.

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#585439

From	Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com>
Date	2016-06-18 07:15 -0700
Message-ID	<61f81d0f-5712-4e88-920b-0b48e20cc7f8@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#585438

On Saturday, June 18, 2016 at 10:00:06 AM UTC-4, Michael Moroney wrote:
> Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> writes:
> 
> >John presents neat unique ideas, you MMM just stomp on John. Let it go.
> 
> John does have interesting ideas.  If he directed them properly it would
> be great.  But they just aren't physics. In fact, John hates physics. I
> still don't know why he hangs around in a group dedicated to something he
> hates, much less "contribute" to it. Unless his contributions are an 
> attempt to sabotage physics somehow.

MMM you need a new perspective. Sir JohnJi loves Physics/Universe.
Physics/Science got sabotaged a long Long LONG time ago... be real.
Now... Was it politics or religion that hijacked Science/Physics?

-- Mahipal “IPMM... माहिपाल ७६३८: d(me) != 0 ... me alwa(y)s changes...”

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#585447

From	moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)
Date	2016-06-18 14:57 +0000
Message-ID	<nk3nge$j5n$2@pcls7.std.com>
In reply to	#585439

Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> writes:

>MMM you need a new perspective. Sir JohnJi loves Physics/Universe.

He most certainly does not.  Haven't you seen his rants/whines blaming
science for the misuse/abuse of technology such as oil pollution and such
things as Monsanto supposedly poisoning wells in Colombia causing birth
defects hundreds of miles away? It's not some mosquito's fault, it's evil
science at fault!

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#585458

From	john <johnsefton288@gmail.com>
Date	2016-06-18 08:57 -0700
Message-ID	<8a7ec07a-c46f-4f49-8f86-dba57a054fa3@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#585447

Michael
If Science thinks atoms are random (wrongly),
and therefore misses some key steps
in making chemicals, routinely ending
with toxic poisons,
whose fault is that?
And if idiots like you keep saying
everything is great,
and trying to shut everyone else up,
who is the enemy of Science?

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#585509

From	moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)
Date	2016-06-18 19:15 +0000
Message-ID	<nk46jm$1b7$2@pcls7.std.com>
In reply to	#585458

john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> writes:

>Michael
>If Science thinks atoms are random (wrongly),
>and therefore misses some key steps
>in making chemicals, routinely ending
>with toxic poisons,

WTF is that supposed to mean?  How atoms arrange themselves determine
whether the resulting compound is poisonous or a vital compound, or 
neither.

>whose fault is that?

How can that be anybody's fault?  Unless you believe in God and then blame
God for creating such stuff as cyanide and ricin and so forth.

>And if idiots like you keep saying
>everything is great,
>and trying to shut everyone else up,
>who is the enemy of Science?

What enemy of science?  I suppose the enemies of science would be the 
combination of kooks and the likes of luddites and creationists trying
to drag it down.  Hey John, you have two of three there!

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csiph-web

Gravity just "in" mass

Contents

#585254 — Gravity just "in" mass

#585260

#585262

#585269

#585273

#585297

#585374

#585394

#585408

#585413

#585416

#585282

#585294

#585296

#585419

#585438

#585439

#585447

#585458

#585509