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There are two different electrons.

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  There are two different electrons. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-05-31 08:20 -0700
    There are two different electrons. HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-05-31 08:26 -0700
      There are two different electrons. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-05-31 08:38 -0700
        Re: There are two different electrons. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-31 10:50 -0500
        There are two different electrons. HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-05-31 08:51 -0700
          There are two different electrons. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-05-31 09:03 -0700
    Re: There are two different electrons. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-31 10:49 -0500
      Re: There are two different electrons. omnilobe@gmail.com - 2016-05-31 09:21 -0700
        Re: There are two different electrons. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-31 11:40 -0500
      Re: There are two different electrons. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-05-31 09:22 -0700
        Re: There are two different electrons. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-31 11:44 -0500
        Re: There are two different electrons. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-05-31 16:47 +0000
      Re: There are two different electrons. ClutterFreak <ClutterFreak@FakeAddress.com> - 2016-05-31 17:50 -0500
        Re: There are two different electrons. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-05-31 18:19 -0700
          Re: There are two different electrons. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-06-01 11:07 -0500
            Re: There are two different electrons. noTthaTguY <abu.kuanysh05@gmail.com> - 2016-06-02 20:37 -0700
    Re: There are two different electrons. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-05-31 16:25 +0000
      Re: There are two different electrons. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-05-31 09:40 -0700
        Re: There are two different electrons. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-31 11:52 -0500
        Re: There are two different electrons. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-05-31 16:54 +0000

#581868 — There are two different electrons.

There are two different electrons- matter
electrons and antimatter electrons.
They have opposite charge and spin.
Matter and antimatter each use each others' 
electrons in the 'down' position, which reverses
their charge and spin.

Sorry, just trying to see it really simple.
Starting to wonder if the nucleus isn't just
spin effect in space

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#581870

john
There are two different electrons- matter 
electrons and antimatter electrons. 
They have opposite charge and spin. 
Matter and antimatter each use each others' 
electrons in the 'down' position, which reverses 
their charge and spin. 

Sorry, just trying to see it really simple. 
Starting to wonder if the nucleus isn't just 
spin effect in space
----------

I think John was tripping balls this weekend

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#581874

Pearl.
HVAC.

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#581879

On 5/31/2016 10:38 AM, john wrote:
> Pearl.
> HVAC.
>

An idea that is completely counter to observations is not a pearl, John.
It might be one of those styrofoam beads that fell out of a hole in a 
beanbag chair, but to proclaim that it's a pearl would be foolishness, 
right?

-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#581880

john
Pearl. 
HVAC
------------

John, while I try and stay a hep cat with all the new lingo, I admit that I've never heard of a drug named 'pearl'.

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#581881

HVAC, you sure seem to reference everything 
to drugs and adultery

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#581878

On 5/31/2016 10:20 AM, john wrote:
> There are two different electrons- matter
> electrons and antimatter electrons.
> They have opposite charge and spin.

There are negative electrons that are spin up and negative electrons 
that are spin down.
There are positive positrons that are spin up and positive positrons 
that are spin down.

You can add two electrons to a double-plus ion and one can go spin up 
and the other spin down, and you'll end up with a neutral atom, which 
means that neither of the electrons changed charge in the middle.

Likewise you can assemble positronium from one electron and one 
positron. You can do it so that they are both spin up or you can do it 
so that one is spin up and the other is spin down. Either way, 
positronium is electrically neutral.

> Matter and antimatter each use each others'
> electrons in the 'down' position, which reverses
> their charge and spin.
>
> Sorry, just trying to see it really simple.
> Starting to wonder if the nucleus isn't just
> spin effect in space
>


-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#581890

On Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 5:49:01 AM UTC-10, Odd Bodkin wrote:
"Likewise you can assemble positronium from one electron and one 
positron. You can do it so that they are both spin up or you can do it 
so that one is spin up and the other is spin down. Either way, 
positronium is electrically neutral. "

When anti matter is present, a nucleus is nearby to participate. You will never find a positron not associated with a proton. It is fun to imagine an independent antimatter molecule of positronium floating in a vast vacuum with no proton involved. That is fun, wheeee ! Now back to reality:

Positrons are paired with a nearby proton that is in a nucleus that is in an excited state. (Page 213, Nuclear Radiation Interactions, Sidney Yip, 2015)

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#581901

On 5/31/2016 11:21 AM, omnilobe@gmail.com wrote:
> When anti matter is present, a nucleus is nearby to participate. You will never
> find a positron not associated with a proton.

Depends what you mean by "associated with". If you mean there's likely 
to be a proton within a few meters of the antimatter particle, yes, 
that's true. But that's not saying much. That's kind of like saying that 
an Asian person in Wyoming will always be associated with a Caucasian 
person.


-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#581892

On 5/31/2016 10:20 AM, john wrote: 
> There are two different electrons- matter 
> electrons and antimatter electrons. 
> They have opposite charge and spin. 

Odd"There are negative electrons that are spin up and negative electrons 
that are spin down. "

Me- yes- the negative spin down is an
antimatter positive spin up. I just said that.

Odd"There are positive positrons that are spin up and positive positrons 
that are spin down. "

Me- yes- the positive spin down positron is
a negative spin up matter electron in the down
position. Which makes it positive. Just said that.

Odd"You can add two electrons to a double-plus ion and one can go spin up 
and the other spin down, and you'll end up with a neutral atom, which 
means that neither of the electrons changed charge in the middle. "

Me- ???? No electrons change anything.
There are 'right side up', 'right charge' electrons
for both matter and antimatter. If you
use either in the down position, you also
reverse the charge.

Likewise you can assemble positronium from one electron and one 
positron. You can do it so that they are both spin up or you can do it 
so that one is spin up and the other is spin down. Either way,
positronium is electrically neutral. "

Me- I don't know where you got that idea

> Matter and antimatter each use each others' 
> electrons in the 'down' position, which reverses 
> their charge and spin. 
> 
John
Maker of Fine Ideas

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#581903

On 5/31/2016 11:22 AM, john wrote:
> On 5/31/2016 10:20 AM, john wrote:
>> There are two different electrons- matter
>> electrons and antimatter electrons.
>> They have opposite charge and spin.
>
> Odd"There are negative electrons that are spin up and negative electrons
> that are spin down. "
>
> Me- yes- the negative spin down is an
> antimatter positive spin up. I just said that.
>
> Odd"There are positive positrons that are spin up and positive positrons
> that are spin down. "
>
> Me- yes- the positive spin down positron is
> a negative spin up matter electron in the down
> position. Which makes it positive. Just said that.

If it were positive, John, the atom would not be electrically neutral.
If you had a +1 ion, with one open slot for an electron, and you find an 
electron and it goes in, spin-down, this does not turn that negatively 
charged electron into a positively charged positron. If it did, adding 
the electron would turn the ion into a +2 charge object. But it's not, 
it's a zero-charge object.

>
> Odd"You can add two electrons to a double-plus ion and one can go spin up
> and the other spin down, and you'll end up with a neutral atom, which
> means that neither of the electrons changed charge in the middle. "
>
> Me- ???? No electrons change anything.

But they do, John. That's how electrically charged positive ions become 
electrically neutral -- by adding electrons.
Don't you remember high school chemistry?

> There are 'right side up', 'right charge' electrons
> for both matter and antimatter. If you
> use either in the down position, you also
> reverse the charge.
>
> Likewise you can assemble positronium from one electron and one
> positron. You can do it so that they are both spin up or you can do it
> so that one is spin up and the other is spin down. Either way,
> positronium is electrically neutral. "
>
> Me- I don't know where you got that idea

Observational fact, John. Look up positronium in Google.

>
>> Matter and antimatter each use each others'
>> electrons in the 'down' position, which reverses
>> their charge and spin.
>>
> John
> Maker of Fine Ideas

Whether they are fine or not is going to take the estimation of your 
consumers. So far, how many of your "fine ideas" have you sold?


-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#581904

john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> writes:

>On 5/31/2016 10:20 AM, john wrote: 
>> There are two different electrons- matter 
>> electrons and antimatter electrons. 
>> They have opposite charge and spin. 

>Odd"There are negative electrons that are spin up and negative electrons 
>that are spin down. "

>Me- yes- the negative spin down is an
>antimatter positive spin up. I just said that.

That's not what Odd said.  He said that a negative spin-down electron is
still negative.

>Odd"There are positive positrons that are spin up and positive positrons 
>that are spin down. "

>Me- yes- the positive spin down positron is
>a negative spin up matter electron in the down
>position. Which makes it positive. Just said that.

Again no. A positive spin-down positron is still positive.

>Odd"You can add two electrons to a double-plus ion and one can go spin up 
>and the other spin down, and you'll end up with a neutral atom, which 
>means that neither of the electrons changed charge in the middle. "

>Me- ???? No electrons change anything.

Odd's example: A +2 charged ion.  Add one spin-up electron (minus charge)
and one spin-down electron (minus charge) and you get a neutral atom.
+2 +(-1) +(-1) = 0, unlike the +2 you would claim.

>There are 'right side up', 'right charge' electrons
>for both matter and antimatter. If you
>use either in the down position, you also
>reverse the charge.

Obviously false.

>Likewise you can assemble positronium from one electron and one 
>positron. You can do it so that they are both spin up or you can do it 
>so that one is spin up and the other is spin down. Either way,
>positronium is electrically neutral. "

>Me- I don't know where you got that idea

Positronium is well known in particle physics.  Have you heard of this 
wonderful new website called "Google"? Type 'positronium' in the box
and it can find all kinds of cool stuff about it.

>John
>Maker of Fine Ideas

John - Converter of "Little Pharma's" latest offering "Pearl" into some
Truly Bizarre Ideas.

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#581991

On Tue, 31 May 2016 10:49:07 -0500, Odd Bodkin wrote:

> There are negative electrons that are spin up and negative electrons 
> that are spin down.

You sure of that? So if you turn an electron upside
down its spin won't change direction?
--
     "I wouldn't join any club that would take me as a
      member. "
     
                        - Groucho Marx

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

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#582029

Clutter said:
>You sure of that? So if you turn an electron upside 
>down its spin won't change direction? 

You'd have to play with it .
Here's Benzene using the precessing disc-
the red are 'up' and the yellow are 'down'-
do they go the same direction upside down?
http://users.accesscomm.ca/john/BenzeneE.GIF

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#582144

On 5/31/2016 8:19 PM, john wrote:
> Clutter said:
>> You sure of that? So if you turn an electron upside
>> down its spin won't change direction?
>
> You'd have to play with it .
> Here's Benzene using the precessing disc-
> the red are 'up' and the yellow are 'down'-
> do they go the same direction upside down?
> http://users.accesscomm.ca/john/BenzeneE.GIF
>

You see, John, there's playing with your animation, which doesn't have 
anything really to do with benzene (any more than a picture that looks 
like a planetary system has to do with beryllium), and then there's 
playing with an idea and comparing it to observational results. Like 
your idea of flipping matter to make antimatter, and comparing that to 
positronium, not to an animation.

-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#582497

there are at least no, different electrons (also,
no, different poisitrons, over yonder

> You see, John, there's playing with your animation, which doesn't have 
> anything really to do with benzene (any more than a picture that looks 
> like a planetary system has to do with beryllium), and then there's 
> playing with an idea and comparing it to observational results. Like 
> your idea of flipping matter to make antimatter, and comparing that to 
> positronium, not to an animation.
> 
> -- 
> Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#581896

john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> writes:

>There are two different electrons- matter
>electrons and antimatter electrons.
>They have opposite charge and spin.
>Matter and antimatter each use each others' 
>electrons in the 'down' position, which reverses
>their charge and spin.

Fail on so many fronts.  A spin up electron never annihilates with a spin
down electron, as you propose. A spin up electron annihilates with a spin
up positron to produce 3 (or, rarely, 5 or an odd #) of photons.  A spin up 
electron annihilates with a spin down positron (or vice versa) to produce
2 (or 4 or other even number) of photons.  Google positronium.

All reactions conserve charge.  You cannot change the charge by changing 
spin.  (you are still obsessed with spin.  Little Pharma will probably only
make that worse, they won't help you with that)

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#581902

Michael said 
"Fail on so many fronts.  A spin up electron never annihilates with a spin 
down electron, as you propose."

I never proposed anything about annihilation 

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#581907

On 5/31/2016 11:40 AM, john wrote:
> Michael said
> "Fail on so many fronts.  A spin up electron never annihilates with a spin
> down electron, as you propose."
>
> I never proposed anything about annihilation
>

But you did say that a spin-up electron is completely equivalent to a 
flipped positron. But that is not so, because a positron CAN annihilate 
with an electron, and an electron will NEVER annihilate with an 
electron. So the two are not equivalent at all.

-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#581908

john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> writes:

>Michael said 
>"Fail on so many fronts.  A spin up electron never annihilates with a spin 
>down electron, as you propose."

>I never proposed anything about annihilation 

You claimed a spin down electron was a positron.  A positron will annihilate
with an electron.  Following your logic, a spin down electron (a.k.a. a 
positron) will annihilate with a spin up electron.

Of course, trying to apply logic when dealing with "Pearl" isn't going to
work out.

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