Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > sci.physics > #571565 > unrolled thread

Eight things you might not know about light

Back to article view | Back to sci.physics

Contents

  Eight things you might not know about light Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-04-19 11:21 -0500
    Re: Eight things you might not know about light Helmut Wabnig <hwabnig@.- --- -.dotat> - 2016-04-19 18:31 +0200
      Re: Eight things you might not know about light Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-04-19 11:33 -0500
      Re: Eight things you might not know about light Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-04-19 18:42 +0200
      Re: Eight things you might not know about light Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-04-19 18:06 -0500
        Re: Eight things you might not know about light benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-20 00:08 -0400
          Re: Eight things you might not know about light HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-20 04:25 -0700
            Re: Eight things you might not know about light benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-20 13:23 -0400
          Re: Eight things you might not know about light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-20 08:12 -0500
            Re: Eight things you might not know about light benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-20 13:26 -0400
              Re: Eight things you might not know about light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-20 12:41 -0500
                Re: Eight things you might not know about light Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-04-20 12:53 -0500
                Re: Eight things you might not know about light benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-20 22:01 -0400
                  Re: Eight things you might not know about light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-21 08:51 -0500
                    Re: Eight things you might not know about light benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-21 12:07 -0400
                      Re: Eight things you might not know about light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-21 11:34 -0500
                        Re: Eight things you might not know about light benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-21 22:07 -0400
                          Re: Eight things you might not know about light Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-22 07:42 -0500
                  Re: Eight things you might not know about light Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-04-21 11:33 -0500
                    Re: Eight things you might not know about light benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-21 21:45 -0400
      Re: Eight things you might not know about light "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-04-20 01:43 -0700
    Re: Eight things you might not know about light "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2016-04-19 12:24 -0700
      Re: Eight things you might not know about light "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2016-04-19 15:32 -0700
      Re: Eight things you might not know about light benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-19 23:31 -0400
    Re: Eight things you might not know about light "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2016-04-19 17:08 -0700
      Re: Eight things you might not know about light Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-04-19 19:23 -0500
      Re: Eight things you might not know about light benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-20 00:09 -0400
        Re: Eight things you might not know about light "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2016-04-19 23:15 -0700
    Re: Eight things you might not know about light Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-04-20 12:07 +1000
      Re: Eight things you might not know about light benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-20 00:14 -0400
        Re: Eight things you might not know about light "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2016-04-20 06:38 -0700
      Re: Eight things you might not know about light Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-04-20 11:09 -0500
        Re: Eight things you might not know about light benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-20 13:46 -0400
          Re: Eight things you might not know about light Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-04-20 20:07 +0200
          Re: Eight things you might not know about light Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-04-22 11:50 +1000
            Re: Eight things you might not know about light benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-21 23:19 -0400
    Re: Eight things you might not know about light "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2016-04-21 09:19 -0700
      Re: Eight things you might not know about light Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-04-21 15:46 -0500

Page 1 of 2  [1] 2  Next page →

#571565 — Eight things you might not know about light

Eight things you might not know about light
> http://www.symmetrymagazine.org/article/eight-things-you-might-not-know-about-light


> 1. Photons can produce shock waves in water or air, similar to sonic
> booms.

> 2. Most types of light are invisible to our eyes.

> 3. Scientists can perform measurements on single photons.

> 4. Photons from particle accelerators are used in chemistry and
> biology.

> 5. Light is the manifestation of one of the four fundamental forces
> of nature.

> 6. Photons are easily created and destroyed.

> 7. When matter and antimatter annihilate, light is a byproduct.

> 8. You can collide photons to make particles.




-- 

sci.physics is an unmoderated newsgroup dedicated
to the discussion of physics, news from the physics
community, and physics-related social issues.

[toc] | [next] | [standalone]

#571568

On Tue, 19 Apr 2016 11:21:18 -0500, Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Eight things you might not know about light
>> http://www.symmetrymagazine.org/article/eight-things-you-might-not-know-about-light
>
>
>> 1. Photons can produce shock waves in water or air, similar to sonic
>> booms.
>
>> 2. Most types of light are invisible to our eyes.
>
>> 3. Scientists can perform measurements on single photons.
>
>> 4. Photons from particle accelerators are used in chemistry and
>> biology.
>
>> 5. Light is the manifestation of one of the four fundamental forces
>> of nature.
>
>> 6. Photons are easily created and destroyed.
>
>> 7. When matter and antimatter annihilate, light is a byproduct.
>
>> 8. You can collide photons to make particles.


How do "scientists" create ONE SINGLE PHOTON?

w.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#571570

On 4/19/16 11:31 AM, Helmut Wabnig wrote:
> How do "scientists" create ONE SINGLE PHOTON?


Using nanotubes to create single photons for quantum communication
 > https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/04/160412160549.htm


 > Researchers demonstrated a new material, made from tiny carbon tubes,
 > that emits the desired single photons (of interest for data
 > encryption) at room temperature.


 > Journal Reference:
 >
 > Xuedan Ma, Nicolai F. Hartmann, Jon K. S. Baldwin, Stephen K. Doorn,
 > Han Htoon. Room-temperature single-photon generation from solitary
 > dopants of carbon nanotubes. Nature Nanotechnology, 2015; 10 (8): 671
 > DOI: 10.1038/nnano.2015.136


-- 

sci.physics is an unmoderated newsgroup dedicated
to the discussion of physics, news from the physics
community, and physics-related social issues.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#571575

Dne 19/04/2016 v 18:31 Helmut Wabnig napsal(a):
> 
> How do "scientists" create ONE SINGLE PHOTON?
> 

If you wanted and not "wanted" to know it,
you would already know it by now.

-- 
Poutnik ( The Pilgrim, Der Wanderer )
Knowledge makes great men humble, but small men arrogant.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#571704

On 4/19/2016 11:31 AM, Helmut Wabnig wrote:
> On Tue, 19 Apr 2016 11:21:18 -0500, Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Eight things you might not know about light
>>> http://www.symmetrymagazine.org/article/eight-things-you-might-not-know-about-light
>>
>>
>>> 1. Photons can produce shock waves in water or air, similar to sonic
>>> booms.
>>
>>> 2. Most types of light are invisible to our eyes.
>>
>>> 3. Scientists can perform measurements on single photons.
>>
>>> 4. Photons from particle accelerators are used in chemistry and
>>> biology.
>>
>>> 5. Light is the manifestation of one of the four fundamental forces
>>> of nature.
>>
>>> 6. Photons are easily created and destroyed.
>>
>>> 7. When matter and antimatter annihilate, light is a byproduct.
>>
>>> 8. You can collide photons to make particles.
>
>
> How do "scientists" create ONE SINGLE PHOTON?
>
> w.
>

not hard, I do that using a small very dim light in a garage at night 
and detect single photons with a photomultiplier tube with a pin hole 
and pointed at a darker place.

so I use a source, and block all of the photons except one at a time, 
and yes the time is variable.

so the pmt puts out a string of single pulses as each photon hit the face.

haven't you guys done this ?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#571737

On 04/19/2016 07:06 PM, Sergio wrote:
> On 4/19/2016 11:31 AM, Helmut Wabnig wrote:
>> On Tue, 19 Apr 2016 11:21:18 -0500, Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Eight things you might not know about light
>>>> http://www.symmetrymagazine.org/article/eight-things-you-might-not-know-about-light
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> 1. Photons can produce shock waves in water or air, similar to sonic
>>>> booms.
>>>
>>>> 2. Most types of light are invisible to our eyes.
>>>
>>>> 3. Scientists can perform measurements on single photons.
>>>
>>>> 4. Photons from particle accelerators are used in chemistry and
>>>> biology.
>>>
>>>> 5. Light is the manifestation of one of the four fundamental forces
>>>> of nature.
>>>
>>>> 6. Photons are easily created and destroyed.
>>>
>>>> 7. When matter and antimatter annihilate, light is a byproduct.
>>>
>>>> 8. You can collide photons to make particles.
>>
>>
>> How do "scientists" create ONE SINGLE PHOTON?
>>
>> w.
>>
>
> not hard, I do that using a small very dim light in a garage at night
> and detect single photons with a photomultiplier tube with a pin hole
> and pointed at a darker place.
>
> so I use a source, and block all of the photons except one at a time,
> and yes the time is variable.
>
> so the pmt puts out a string of single pulses as each photon hit the face.
>
> haven't you guys done this ?

You think HVAC or Wormley or Odd have the slightest clue what a 
photomultiplier is, let alone how to wire one up? Gimme a break.

The most you can hope for is HVAC looking through a third generation 
night vision scope on a dark night watching the sparkles. Looking in a 
dark hole is the limit of his technical expertise.

One question: Did you verify Bert's "all photons travel in pairs" theory?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#571795

BJ quacked
You think HVAC or Wormley or Odd have the slightest clue what a 
photomultiplier is, let alone how to wire one up? Gimme a break. 
--------------

"Wiring things up" is a job I delegate to junior lab assistants.

You know, like the job you used to have before you were fired. Check that...Terminated.

Right right?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#571877

On 04/20/2016 07:25 AM, HVAC wrote:
> BJ quacked
> You think HVAC or Wormley or Odd have the slightest clue what a
> photomultiplier is, let alone how to wire one up? Gimme a break.
> --------------
>
> "Wiring things up" is a job I delegate to junior lab assistants.
>
> You know, like the job you used to have before you were fired. Check that...Terminated.
>
> Right right?
>
No revelation here, HVAC. It is obvious to all of us that you are an 
"idea man" like Herb who couldn't do any productive work if your life 
depended on it. Which is why the only jobs you ever held were for the 
government. There being incompetent isn't noticed, in fact it's rewarded.

Overlord double-secret handshake?
right right?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#571806

On 4/19/2016 11:08 PM, benj wrote:
>
> You think HVAC or Wormley or Odd have the slightest clue what a
> photomultiplier is, let alone how to wire one up?

I know what a PMT is, and I've wired one up before.

-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#571881

On 04/20/2016 09:12 AM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> On 4/19/2016 11:08 PM, benj wrote:
>>
>> You think HVAC or Wormley or Odd have the slightest clue what a
>> photomultiplier is, let alone how to wire one up?
>
> I know what a PMT is, and I've wired one up before.

Oh wait. You are an amateur scientist, so that makes the difference!

Ever see any "photons"?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#571892

On 4/20/2016 12:26 PM, benj wrote:
> On 04/20/2016 09:12 AM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>> On 4/19/2016 11:08 PM, benj wrote:
>>>
>>> You think HVAC or Wormley or Odd have the slightest clue what a
>>> photomultiplier is, let alone how to wire one up?
>>
>> I know what a PMT is, and I've wired one up before.
>
> Oh wait. You are an amateur scientist, so that makes the difference!

PMTs are pretty commonplace.

>
> Ever see any "photons"?
>

Sure seen signals from PMTs.
Also have seen clicks from Geiger counters. Gamma rays, you know.


-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#571899

On 4/20/2016 12:41 PM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> On 4/20/2016 12:26 PM, benj wrote:
>> On 04/20/2016 09:12 AM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>>> On 4/19/2016 11:08 PM, benj wrote:
>>>>
>>>> You think HVAC or Wormley or Odd have the slightest clue what a
>>>> photomultiplier is, let alone how to wire one up?
>>>
>>> I know what a PMT is, and I've wired one up before.
>>
>> Oh wait. You are an amateur scientist, so that makes the difference!
>
> PMTs are pretty commonplace.
>
>>
>> Ever see any "photons"?
>>
>
> Sure seen signals from PMTs.
> Also have seen clicks from Geiger counters. Gamma rays, you know.
>
>

eBay has PMTs cheap, you can put some scintillation plastic in front of 
it and detect gamma and cosmic rays easily, background radiation. Having 
an O scope makes it easy.  You can also detect xrays, and radioactive 
materials, and things like your granet kitchen counter. (make sure the 
wife is not around, unless shes physicist)

you can also get another type of crystal NaTil (expensive) and with it 
you can resolve radioactive products, software is free on line, and 
there is a unit you can buy for $250 with the electronics on ebay, and 
hookup your pmt and computer.

and PMTs take very little power, you can make it all portable.  One dude 
used a paint bucket size scintillation plastic to detect fossilized 
bones in the ground.

Only problem is when you try to take on an airplane, trying to explain 
that you are only trying to detect radioactive products...

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#571973

On 04/20/2016 01:41 PM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> On 4/20/2016 12:26 PM, benj wrote:
>> On 04/20/2016 09:12 AM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>>> On 4/19/2016 11:08 PM, benj wrote:
>>>>
>>>> You think HVAC or Wormley or Odd have the slightest clue what a
>>>> photomultiplier is, let alone how to wire one up?
>>>
>>> I know what a PMT is, and I've wired one up before.
>>
>> Oh wait. You are an amateur scientist, so that makes the difference!
>
> PMTs are pretty commonplace.

I used to use one to pickup sound on my old 35mm movie projector!

Remember film? Probably before your time.

>> Ever see any "photons"?
>>
>
> Sure seen signals from PMTs.
> Also have seen clicks from Geiger counters. Gamma rays, you know.

We can go with Geiger clicks as individual photons, but how do you know 
PMT signaks are not "waves"?  Not common to see individual photon with 
PMTs.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#572074

On 4/20/2016 9:01 PM, benj wrote:
> We can go with Geiger clicks as individual photons, but how do you know
> PMT signaks are not "waves"?  Not common to see individual photon with
> PMTs.

I don't believe that's an accurate statement. PMTs are used all the time 
in extremely low light scenarios.

-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#572118

On 04/21/2016 09:51 AM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> On 4/20/2016 9:01 PM, benj wrote:
>> We can go with Geiger clicks as individual photons, but how do you know
>> PMT signaks are not "waves"?  Not common to see individual photon with
>> PMTs.
>
> I don't believe that's an accurate statement. PMTs are used all the time
> in extremely low light scenarios.

Too much noise to easily distinguish single photons from noise.

Gen III Image tubes much better. I'm sure you know that, right?

Fist bump, bro?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#572133

On 4/21/2016 11:07 AM, benj wrote:
> On 04/21/2016 09:51 AM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>> On 4/20/2016 9:01 PM, benj wrote:
>>> We can go with Geiger clicks as individual photons, but how do you know
>>> PMT signaks are not "waves"?  Not common to see individual photon with
>>> PMTs.
>>
>> I don't believe that's an accurate statement. PMTs are used all the time
>> in extremely low light scenarios.
>
> Too much noise to easily distinguish single photons from noise.

I think not. Look up Ring Cerenkov counters.

Here's an installation that uses them to detect single photons:
http://www-sk.icrr.u-tokyo.ac.jp/sk/index-e.html

>
> Gen III Image tubes much better. I'm sure you know that, right?
>
> Fist bump, bro?
>
>


-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#572269

On 04/21/2016 12:34 PM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> On 4/21/2016 11:07 AM, benj wrote:
>> On 04/21/2016 09:51 AM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>>> On 4/20/2016 9:01 PM, benj wrote:
>>>> We can go with Geiger clicks as individual photons, but how do you know
>>>> PMT signaks are not "waves"?  Not common to see individual photon with
>>>> PMTs.
>>>
>>> I don't believe that's an accurate statement. PMTs are used all the time
>>> in extremely low light scenarios.
>>
>> Too much noise to easily distinguish single photons from noise.
>
> I think not. Look up Ring Cerenkov counters.
>
> Here's an installation that uses them to detect single photons:
> http://www-sk.icrr.u-tokyo.ac.jp/sk/index-e.html

Hey, I didn't say it was not possible I said it wasn't common, Mr. 
Debate team captain.

Nifty experiment though. Certainly much more worthwhile than LIGO.
You do know that I was there where the first Neutrinos were detected, 
right?  Only they looked for gamma rays from electron-positron 
annihilation. So the tank wasn't filled with water.

Oh, but hell, I forgot. You know all this stuff so why am I bothering to 
tell you. You'll just correct me anyway (even though you weren't there).

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#572335

On 4/21/2016 9:07 PM, benj wrote:
> On 04/21/2016 12:34 PM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>> On 4/21/2016 11:07 AM, benj wrote:
>>> On 04/21/2016 09:51 AM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>>>> On 4/20/2016 9:01 PM, benj wrote:
>>>>> We can go with Geiger clicks as individual photons, but how do you
>>>>> know
>>>>> PMT signaks are not "waves"?  Not common to see individual photon with
>>>>> PMTs.
>>>>
>>>> I don't believe that's an accurate statement. PMTs are used all the
>>>> time
>>>> in extremely low light scenarios.
>>>
>>> Too much noise to easily distinguish single photons from noise.
>>
>> I think not. Look up Ring Cerenkov counters.
>>
>> Here's an installation that uses them to detect single photons:
>> http://www-sk.icrr.u-tokyo.ac.jp/sk/index-e.html
>
> Hey, I didn't say it was not possible I said it wasn't common, Mr.
> Debate team captain.

Well, I suppose that depends on how you choose to use the PMT, doesn't it?

>
> Nifty experiment though. Certainly much more worthwhile than LIGO.
> You do know that I was there where the first Neutrinos were detected,
> right?  Only they looked for gamma rays from electron-positron
> annihilation. So the tank wasn't filled with water.

You were there at the Reines-Cowan experiments? Is your name on their 
papers?

>
> Oh, but hell, I forgot. You know all this stuff so why am I bothering to
> tell you. You'll just correct me anyway (even though you weren't there).
>


-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#572134

On 4/20/2016 9:01 PM, benj wrote:
> On 04/20/2016 01:41 PM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>> On 4/20/2016 12:26 PM, benj wrote:
>>> On 04/20/2016 09:12 AM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>>>> On 4/19/2016 11:08 PM, benj wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> You think HVAC or Wormley or Odd have the slightest clue what a
>>>>> photomultiplier is, let alone how to wire one up?

>>>> I know what a PMT is, and I've wired one up before.
>>>
>>> Oh wait. You are an amateur scientist, so that makes the difference!
>>
>> PMTs are pretty commonplace.
>
> I used to use one to pickup sound on my old 35mm movie projector!
>
> Remember film? Probably before your time.
>
>>> Ever see any "photons"?
>>>
>>
>> Sure seen signals from PMTs.
>> Also have seen clicks from Geiger counters. Gamma rays, you know.
>
> We can go with Geiger clicks as individual photons, but how do you know
> PMT signaks are not "waves"?  Not common to see individual photon with
> PMTs.
>
>

you can, there are photon counting PMTs by Hamamatsu.
and with most PMTS you can see the pulses on the scope.  At dark you 
have a few pulses, all have the same shape due to responce of the tube 
and circuit, as you add more photons, you get more pulses, and as you 
increase photons they add/merge together and the baseline drifts up, and 
if you add more light you can saturate the tube, signal goes to max and 
you fry tube because the current got too high.  Every tube is guarenteed 
that you can fry it once.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#572265

On 04/21/2016 12:33 PM, Sergio wrote:
> On 4/20/2016 9:01 PM, benj wrote:
>> On 04/20/2016 01:41 PM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>>> On 4/20/2016 12:26 PM, benj wrote:
>>>> On 04/20/2016 09:12 AM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>>>>> On 4/19/2016 11:08 PM, benj wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You think HVAC or Wormley or Odd have the slightest clue what a
>>>>>> photomultiplier is, let alone how to wire one up?
>
>>>>> I know what a PMT is, and I've wired one up before.
>>>>
>>>> Oh wait. You are an amateur scientist, so that makes the difference!
>>>
>>> PMTs are pretty commonplace.
>>
>> I used to use one to pickup sound on my old 35mm movie projector!
>>
>> Remember film? Probably before your time.
>>
>>>> Ever see any "photons"?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Sure seen signals from PMTs.
>>> Also have seen clicks from Geiger counters. Gamma rays, you know.
>>
>> We can go with Geiger clicks as individual photons, but how do you know
>> PMT signaks are not "waves"?  Not common to see individual photon with
>> PMTs.
>>
>>
>
> you can, there are photon counting PMTs by Hamamatsu.
> and with most PMTS you can see the pulses on the scope.  At dark you
> have a few pulses, all have the same shape due to responce of the tube
> and circuit, as you add more photons, you get more pulses, and as you
> increase photons they add/merge together and the baseline drifts up, and
> if you add more light you can saturate the tube, signal goes to max and
> you fry tube because the current got too high.  Every tube is guarenteed
> that you can fry it once.
>
Do you mean you can fry it once and it keeps working or they guarantee 
that EVERYONE fries it once? :-)

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

Page 1 of 2  [1] 2  Next page →

Back to top | Article view | sci.physics

csiph-web