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Asymmetry of Galactic Rotation Curves

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  Asymmetry of Galactic Rotation Curves john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-01-26 07:03 -0800
    Re: Asymmetry of Galactic Rotation Curves Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-01-26 09:06 -0600
    Re: Asymmetry of Galactic Rotation Curves Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-26 09:34 -0600
      Re: Asymmetry of Galactic Rotation Curves john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-01-26 08:28 -0800
        Re: Asymmetry of Galactic Rotation Curves Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-26 11:04 -0600
          Re: Asymmetry of Galactic Rotation Curves john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-01-26 09:31 -0800
            Re: Asymmetry of Galactic Rotation Curves Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-26 12:06 -0600
    Re: Asymmetry of Galactic Rotation Curves moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-01-26 15:38 +0000
      Re: Asymmetry of Galactic Rotation Curves john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-01-26 08:21 -0800
        Re: Asymmetry of Galactic Rotation Curves moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-01-26 18:33 +0000
          Re: Asymmetry of Galactic Rotation Curves john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-01-26 11:15 -0800
            Re: Asymmetry of Galactic Rotation Curves moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-01-26 20:07 +0000
              Re: Asymmetry of Galactic Rotation Curves john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-01-26 15:33 -0800
                Re: Asymmetry of Galactic Rotation Curves moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-01-27 07:14 +0000
                  Re: Asymmetry of Galactic Rotation Curves john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-01-27 05:27 -0800
                    Re: Asymmetry of Galactic Rotation Curves moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-01-27 15:47 +0000
                    Re: Asymmetry of Galactic Rotation Curves HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-01-27 08:04 -0800
                      Re: Asymmetry of Galactic Rotation Curves benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-01-27 13:12 -0500
                  Re: Asymmetry of Galactic Rotation Curves john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-01-27 08:08 -0800
                    Re: Asymmetry of Galactic Rotation Curves moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-01-27 18:42 +0000
                  Re: Asymmetry of Galactic Rotation Curves benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-01-27 13:12 -0500
                Re: Asymmetry of Galactic Rotation Curves Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-27 07:29 -0600
                  Re: Asymmetry of Galactic Rotation Curves john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-01-27 06:28 -0800
                    Re: Asymmetry of Galactic Rotation Curves Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-27 10:31 -0600
                      Re: Asymmetry of Galactic Rotation Curves john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-01-27 09:06 -0800
                        Re: Asymmetry of Galactic Rotation Curves Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-01-27 11:40 -0600
                        Re: Asymmetry of Galactic Rotation Curves moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-01-27 19:00 +0000

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#548578

On 01/27/2016 02:14 AM, Michael Moroney wrote:
> john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Michael
>> "It can be.  But it requires a force (torque) to do so.  WHERE DOES IT COME
>> FROM??????  Magic? "
>
>> Comes from?
>> Is that Physics?
>> The same place atoms get all THEIR energy.
>> Some huge event.
>> Once the energy is invested
>> in this wave, it takes MORE for the wave
>> to break up, so it is permanent.
>
> Dance, dance, dance.  All you can do is dance and toss word salad.  You
> have no answer and no evidence.  I keep asking you for evidence galaxies
> precess like you claim, and you either ignore it or dance.  WHERE IS THE
> EVIDENCE?
>
> You didn't answer my question, so I'll ask again: WHERE DOES THE TORQUE
> NECESSARY TO CAUSE THE PRECESSION COME FROM?  A spinning object doesn't
> precess without being forced to, and because of conservation of angular
> momentum, it actually actively resists precession!

When God gets "torqued" galaxies precess!

> And to answer your question "Is that Physics?", yes! A claim has been
> made.  Claims are evaluated against the laws of physics to see if the
> claims are realistic.  The law of conservation of angular momentum
> immediately rules out magically precessing galaxies as absurd.
>
> C'mon, you are always whining about dark matter and zero volume particles
> because, well, who knows why you whine about them, yet you come up with
> stupid crap like precessing galaxies that require magic to happen? WTF??
>


-- 

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      /\  \         /\  \         /\__\          /\  \
     /::\  \       /::\  \       /::|  |         \:\  \
    /:/\:\  \     /:/\:\  \     /:|:|  |     ___ /::\__\
   /::\~\:\__\   /::\~\:\  \   /:/|:|  |__  /\  /:/\/__/
  /:/\:\ \:|__| /:/\:\ \:\__\ /:/ |:| /\__\ \:\/:/  /
  \:\~\:\/:/  / \:\~\:\ \/__/ \/__|:|/:/  /  \::/  /
   \:\ \::/  /   \:\ \:\__\       |:/:/  /    \/__/
    \:\/:/  /     \:\ \/__/       |::/  /
     \::/__/       \:\__\         /:/  /
      ~~            \/__/         \/__/

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#548523

On 1/26/2016 5:33 PM, john wrote:
>
> Michael
> "It can be.  But it requires a force (torque) to do so.  WHERE DOES IT COME
> FROM??????  Magic? "
>
> Comes from?
> Is that Physics?
> The same place atoms get all THEIR energy.
> Some huge event.
> Once the energy is invested
> in this wave, it takes MORE for the wave
> to break up, so it is permanent.
>

I'm just going to point out something from high school physics, John.
Conservation of angular momentum and conservation of energy are 
independent laws. Those two quantities are conserved separately. You 
can't get angular momentum from energy, and you can't get energy from 
angular momentum.

-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#548532

Odd said:
"I'm just going to point out something from high school physics, John. 
Conservation of angular momentum and conservation of energy are 
independent laws. Those two quantities are conserved separately. You 
can't get angular momentum from energy, and you can't get energy from 
angular momentum."

So, a spin-within-a-spin would be difficult to
create, but once created, would be difficult 
to stop? Like atoms?

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#548557

On 1/27/2016 8:28 AM, john wrote:
> Odd said:
> "I'm just going to point out something from high school physics, John.
> Conservation of angular momentum and conservation of energy are
> independent laws. Those two quantities are conserved separately. You
> can't get angular momentum from energy, and you can't get energy from
> angular momentum."
>
> So, a spin-within-a-spin would be difficult to
> create, but once created, would be difficult
> to stop? Like atoms?
>

??? No, I didn't say anything like that. Why are you making things up?

-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#548562

A spin-within-a-spin:
the 1:2 rotation I'm talking about-
can't be done?
Can't be done fast?
Can be done but will slow down quickly?
What? Michael? Odd?
Wheels within wheels

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#548568

On 1/27/2016 11:06 AM, john wrote:
> A spin-within-a-spin:
> the 1:2 rotation I'm talking about-
> can't be done?
> Can't be done fast?
> Can be done but will slow down quickly?
> What? Michael? Odd?
> Wheels within wheels
>

Look at a plate sitting on the countertop.
It is not spinning. You can look at it all day and it will not 
spontaneously start spinning.
Now, you can get it to spin. To do this, you will have to grab it with 
your hand and exert a torque to it for it now to have spin. Now you can 
look at the spinning plate and you know two things: a) it is spinning, 
b) something was done to it to get it spinning, and it had to do it in a 
certain way.
Now, you can also get it spinning and precessing. To do this, you will 
have to grab it again and exert a torque on it in a different way. Now 
you can look at the spinning and precessing plate, and you will be able 
to explain to someone who asks what exactly was done to the plate to get 
it to behave that way, because dropping it, throwing it, heating it up, 
putting it in the dishwasher, or piling six pounds of hamburger on it 
would not produce the spinning and precessing that you see.

So when you say you have a model where you envisage an assembly of 
things where everything in there is spinning and precessing, it's going 
to be like the dinner plate. Someone is going to ask, "What exactly was 
done to get it to move like that?"

-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#548607

john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> writes:

>A spin-within-a-spin:
>the 1:2 rotation I'm talking about-
>can't be done?
>Can't be done fast?
>Can be done but will slow down quickly?
>What? Michael? Odd?
>Wheels within wheels

What does the law of conservation of angular momentum tell you?

Do this exercise: Consider a spinny thing rotating about the x axis with 1 
unit of angular momentum.  Its angular momentum vector is along the x 
axis.  Now precess it about the y axis 1/4 turn, 1/2 turn, 3/4 turn, 1 
full turn.  What is the angular momentum vector (magnitude and direction)
at each step?

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