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Groups > sci.physics > #533137 > unrolled thread

Do we need a new theory of gravity?

Started bySam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com>
First post2015-11-14 16:18 -0600
Last post2015-11-17 15:36 -0800
Articles 20 on this page of 77 — 16 participants

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  Do we need a new theory of gravity? Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-11-14 16:18 -0600
    Re: Do we need a new theory of gravity? Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-11-14 22:44 +0000
      Re: Do we need a new theory of gravity? Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-11-14 17:03 -0600
        Re: Do we need a new theory of gravity? Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-11-14 23:24 +0000
          Re: Do we need a new theory of gravity? Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-11-14 17:26 -0600
            Re: Do we need a new theory of gravity? Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-11-15 00:08 +0000
              Re: Do we need a new theory of gravity? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-11-14 17:56 -0800
                Re: Do we need a new theory of gravity? HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2015-11-14 18:28 -0800
                  Re: Do we need a new theory of gravity? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-11-14 22:18 -0800
                    Why won't HVAC admit his NAMBLA membership? benj <nobody@gmail.com> - 2015-11-15 03:58 -0500
                  Re: Do we need a new theory of gravity? benj <nobody@gmail.com> - 2015-11-15 04:17 -0500
                Re: Do we need a new theory of gravity? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2015-11-15 02:32 +0000
                  Re: Do we need a new theory of gravity? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-11-14 22:15 -0800
                    Re: Do we need a new theory of gravity? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2015-11-15 15:24 +0000
                      Re: Do we need a new theory of gravity? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-11-15 09:24 -0800
                        Re: Do we need a new theory of gravity? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2015-11-16 01:08 +0000
                          Re: Do we need a new theory of gravity? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-11-15 17:13 -0800
                            Re: Do we need a new theory of gravity? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2015-11-16 16:14 +0000
                              Re: Do we need a new theory of gravity? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-11-16 08:20 -0800
                                Re: Do we need a new theory of gravity? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2015-11-16 16:59 +0000
                                Re: Do we need a new theory of gravity? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-11-16 11:25 -0600
                                  Re: Do we need a new theory of gravity? benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-16 13:11 -0500
                                    Re: Do we need a new theory of gravity? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-11-16 12:13 -0600
                                      Re: Do we need a new theory of gravity? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-11-16 10:47 -0800
                                        Re: Do we need a new theory of gravity? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-11-16 13:08 -0600
                                        Re: Do we need a new theory of gravity? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-11-16 13:10 -0600
                                          Re: Do we need a new theory of gravity? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-11-16 11:21 -0800
                                            Re: Do we need a new theory of gravity? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-11-16 15:19 -0600
                                              Re: Do we need a new theory of gravity? "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2015-11-16 15:42 -0800
                                    Re: Do we need a new theory of gravity? "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2015-11-16 23:59 -0800
                            Re: Do we need a new theory of gravity? HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2015-11-16 15:48 -0800
                              Re: Do we need a new theory of gravity? Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2015-11-16 16:19 -0800
                                Re: Do we need a new theory of gravity? "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2015-11-17 00:05 -0800
                        Re: Do we need a new theory of gravity? "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2015-11-16 23:55 -0800
                  Re: Do we need a new theory of gravity? "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2015-11-15 00:54 -0800
                  Re: Do we need a new theory of gravity? "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2015-11-15 10:21 -0800
                Re: Do we need a new theory of gravity? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-11-16 11:09 -0600
                  Re: Do we need a new theory of gravity? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-11-16 11:46 -0800
                    Re: Do we need a new theory of gravity? "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2015-11-16 12:32 -0800
                    Re: Do we need a new theory of gravity? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-11-16 15:28 -0600
                      Re: Do we need a new theory of gravity? Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2015-11-16 13:41 -0800
                        Re: Do we need a new theory of gravity? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-11-16 14:48 -0800
                          Re: Do we need a new theory of gravity? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-11-16 17:24 -0600
                            Re: Do we need a new theory of gravity? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-11-16 16:53 -0800
                              Re: Do we need a new theory of gravity? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-11-17 10:07 -0600
                            Re: Do we need a new theory of gravity? "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2015-11-17 00:27 -0800
                              Re: Do we need a new theory of gravity? "Dave Smith" <invalid@exampll.com> - 2015-11-17 18:01 -0800
                      Re: Do we need a new theory of gravity? "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2015-11-17 00:24 -0800
                    Re: Do we need a new theory of gravity? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2015-11-17 17:07 +0000
                      Re: Do we need a new theory of gravity? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-11-17 11:11 -0800
                        Re: Do we need a new theory of gravity? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-11-17 11:28 -0800
                          Re: Do we need a new theory of gravity? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-11-17 14:00 -0600
                            Re: Do we need a new theory of gravity? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-11-17 12:11 -0800
                              Re: Do we need a new theory of gravity? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-11-17 14:45 -0600
                                Re: Do we need a new theory of gravity? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-11-17 14:51 -0600
                                  Re: Do we need a new theory of gravity? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-11-17 15:00 -0600
                          Re: Do we need a new theory of gravity? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2015-11-17 20:30 +0000
                        Re: Do we need a new theory of gravity? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-11-17 13:44 -0600
                        Re: Do we need a new theory of gravity? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2015-11-17 20:23 +0000
                          Re: Do we need a new theory of gravity? "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2015-11-17 12:46 -0800
                      Re: Do we need a new theory of gravity? "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2015-11-17 14:00 -0800
              Re: Do we need a new theory of gravity? xxein1@att.net - 2015-11-14 22:36 -0800
                Re: Do we need a new theory of gravity? Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-11-15 06:58 +0000
                  Re: Do we need a new theory of gravity? xxein1@att.net - 2015-11-14 23:21 -0800
                    Re: Do we need a new theory of gravity? Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-11-15 07:26 +0000
                      Re: Do we need a new theory of gravity? Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-11-15 07:40 +0000
                        Re: Do we need a new theory of gravity? xxein1@att.net - 2015-11-15 00:10 -0800
                          Re: Do we need a new theory of gravity? Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-11-15 21:54 +0000
                            Re: Do we need a new theory of gravity? xxein1@att.net - 2015-11-17 11:35 -0800
    Re: Do we need a new theory of gravity? jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-11-14 22:47 +0000
    Re: Do we need a new theory of gravity? "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2015-11-15 01:02 -0800
    Re: Do we need a new theory of gravity? gilber34 <fafa@invalid.com> - 2015-11-15 14:13 -0600
      Re: Do we need a new theory of gravity? "Y.Porat" <y.y.porat@gmail.com> - 2015-11-16 00:00 -0800
    Re: Do we need a new theory of gravity? xxein1@att.net - 2015-11-17 11:28 -0800
      Re: Do we need a new theory of gravity? Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-11-17 13:46 -0600
        Re: Do we need a new theory of gravity? xxein1@att.net - 2015-11-17 15:06 -0800
        Re: Do we need a new theory of gravity? xxein1@att.net - 2015-11-17 15:36 -0800

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#533137 — Do we need a new theory of gravity?

FromSam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com>
Date2015-11-14 16:18 -0600
SubjectDo we need a new theory of gravity?
Message-ID<w-mdnVDcJbvSLtrLnZ2dnUU7-U-dnZ2d@giganews.com>
Do we need a new theory of gravity?
> http://phys.org/news/2015-11-theory-gravity.html

> One of the real challenges in building theories of gravity is that
> you need to make sure that your theory makes sense at the very large
> cosmological scales, without predicting ludicrous things for the
> solar system, such as the moon spiralling into the earth. I don't
> think enough of that kind of synoptic analysis gets done.
> Cosmologists tend to focus on the cosmological properties and they
> don't always check: does my theory even allow stable stars and black
> holes to exist? Because if it doesn't, then you need to throw it out
> straight away.
>
> Over the past decade hundreds of researchers have come up with all
> sorts of ways to change gravity. Part of the problem now is that
> there are so many different theories that if you were to test each
> one individually it would take forever. I've done a lot of work on
> trying to come up with unified descriptions of these theories. If you
> can map them all onto a single mathematical formalism, all you have
> to do is test that one thing and you know what it means for all the
> different theories.
>
> In doing this mapping process we've discovered that a lot of the
> theories look very different to start with, but at the mathematical
> level they're moving along the same lines. It suggests to me that
> people are stuck in one way of thinking at the moment when they build
> these gravity theories, and that there's still room to do something
> completely different.
>
> More recently I've moved on to developing ways to actually test the
> mathematics – to constrain it with data. For example, we can use
> gravitational lensing. If you have a massive object like a galaxy
> cluster, the light from objects behind it is bent by the gravity of
> the cluster. If you change your theory of gravity, you change the
> amount of bending that occurs. Basically we throw every piece of data
> we can get our hands on into constraining these frameworks and
> testing what works.
>
> At this precise moment the data we have is not quite good enough to
> distinguish between all the different gravity models.


-- 

sci.physics is an unmoderated newsgroup dedicated
to the discussion of physics, news from the physics
community, and physics-related social issues.

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#533145

FromFabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain>
Date2015-11-14 22:44 +0000
Message-ID<pan.2015.11.14.22.43.16@localhost.localdomain>
In reply to#533137
On Sat, 14 Nov 2015 16:18:55 -0600, Sam Wormley wrote:

> Do we need a new theory of gravity?
>> http://phys.org/news/2015-11-theory-gravity.html
> 

So, Sammy, in your learned opinion, does this constitute an attack
on the theoretical primacy of General Relativity?

 

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#533149

FromSam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com>
Date2015-11-14 17:03 -0600
Message-ID<MYydnQg-Lt5cINrLnZ2dnUU7-R-dnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#533145
On 11/14/15 4:44 PM, Fabian Russell wrote:
> On Sat, 14 Nov 2015 16:18:55 -0600, Sam Wormley wrote:
>
>> Do we need a new theory of gravity?
>>> http://phys.org/news/2015-11-theory-gravity.html
>>
>
> So, Sammy, in your learned opinion, does this constitute an attack
> on the theoretical primacy of General Relativity?
>

   In my learned opinion, it is normal for researchers to continue to
   challenge the status quo of established scientific theories. That's
   how we advance our understanding of the universe. GR may be correct
   as it is or there may be something even better.

   Those little nagging discrepancies!

   I really appreciate the men and women who further our knowledge.


-- 

sci.physics is an unmoderated newsgroup dedicated
to the discussion of physics, news from the physics
community, and physics-related social issues.

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#533153

FromFabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain>
Date2015-11-14 23:24 +0000
Message-ID<pan.2015.11.14.23.24.28@localhost.localdomain>
In reply to#533149
On Sat, 14 Nov 2015 17:03:29 -0600, Sam Wormley wrote:

> 
>    In my learned opinion, it is normal for researchers to continue to
>    challenge the status quo of established scientific theories. That's
>    how we advance our understanding of the universe. GR may be correct
>    as it is or there may be something even better.
> 

So, then, while Special Relativity can be accorded the status
of physical law, General Relativity yet cannot.

Would this be a correct statement?

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#533155

FromSam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com>
Date2015-11-14 17:26 -0600
Message-ID<5_OdncEOX4zfXtrLnZ2dnUU7-VednZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#533153
On 11/14/15 5:24 PM, Fabian Russell wrote:
> On Sat, 14 Nov 2015 17:03:29 -0600, Sam Wormley wrote:
>
>>
>>     In my learned opinion, it is normal for researchers to continue to
>>     challenge the status quo of established scientific theories. That's
>>     how we advance our understanding of the universe. GR may be correct
>>     as it is or there may be something even better.
>>
>
> So, then, while Special Relativity can be accorded the status
> of physical law, General Relativity yet cannot.
>
> Would this be a correct statement?
>

   Neither have been falsified by experiment or observation.

-- 

sci.physics is an unmoderated newsgroup dedicated
to the discussion of physics, news from the physics
community, and physics-related social issues.

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#533172

FromFabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain>
Date2015-11-15 00:08 +0000
Message-ID<pan.2015.11.15.00.06.28@localhost.localdomain>
In reply to#533155
On Sat, 14 Nov 2015 17:26:58 -0600, Sam Wormley wrote:

> 
>    Neither have been falsified by experiment or observation.
>

So, then, there are no physical laws.  There is only
the provisional status of being un-falsified.

Yes, I would agree.

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#533185

Fromjohn <johnsefton288@gmail.com>
Date2015-11-14 17:56 -0800
Message-ID<9d14e7e6-050e-4a9b-9d19-d8ac4e5ba28d@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#533172
Yes, we need a new theory of gravity.
Suck Gravity doesn't even make sense

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#533190

FromHVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com>
Date2015-11-14 18:28 -0800
Message-ID<46575732-a768-4071-92e5-3ce72e9c9526@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#533185
John strikes again with his homosexual pederasty fixation

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#533223

Fromjohn <johnsefton288@gmail.com>
Date2015-11-14 22:18 -0800
Message-ID<ebd2fb41-4ca0-4798-a7e1-35795e457a93@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#533190
Hmm.
HVAC, YOU'RE the guy always
speculating about sexual orientation-
Tesla and his bird, how much fun you
have in the backwoods "fishing" with
one of your "butties".
Give it a rest you closet homo

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#533242 — Why won't HVAC admit his NAMBLA membership?

Frombenj <nobody@gmail.com>
Date2015-11-15 03:58 -0500
SubjectWhy won't HVAC admit his NAMBLA membership?
Message-ID<wOX1y.65681$gK.49837@fx26.iad>
In reply to#533223
On 11/15/2015 01:18 AM, john wrote:
> Hmm.
> HVAC, YOU'RE the guy always
> speculating about sexual orientation-
> Tesla and his bird, how much fun you
> have in the backwoods "fishing" with
> one of your "butties".
> Give it a rest you closet homo

HVAC is "bi". HE loves underage foreign girls AND his "fishing" trips to 
Brokeback Mountain.

He accuses everyone else of being gay to cover that he's not out of the 
closet yet. Same goes for his NAMBLA membership.

-- 
         ___           ___           ___            ___
        /\  \         /\  \         /\__\          /\  \
       /::\  \       /::\  \       /::|  |         \:\  \
      /:/\:\  \     /:/\:\  \     /:|:|  |     ___ /::\__\
     /::\~\:\__\   /::\~\:\  \   /:/|:|  |__  /\  /:/\/__/
    /:/\:\ \:|__| /:/\:\ \:\__\ /:/ |:| /\__\ \:\/:/  /
    \:\~\:\/:/  / \:\~\:\ \/__/ \/__|:|/:/  /  \::/  /
     \:\ \::/  /   \:\ \:\__\       |:/:/  /    \/__/
      \:\/:/  /     \:\ \/__/       |::/  /
       \_:/__/       \:\__\         /:/  /
                      \/__/         \/__/

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#533248

Frombenj <nobody@gmail.com>
Date2015-11-15 04:17 -0500
Message-ID<D4Y1y.57951$dc2.41358@fx24.iad>
In reply to#533190
On 11/14/2015 09:28 PM, HVAC wrote:
> John strikes again with his homosexual pederasty fixation

Been on a "fishing trip" to Brokeback Mountain lately?

-- 
         ___           ___           ___            ___
        /\  \         /\  \         /\__\          /\  \
       /::\  \       /::\  \       /::|  |         \:\  \
      /:/\:\  \     /:/\:\  \     /:|:|  |     ___ /::\__\
     /::\~\:\__\   /::\~\:\  \   /:/|:|  |__  /\  /:/\/__/
    /:/\:\ \:|__| /:/\:\ \:\__\ /:/ |:| /\__\ \:\/:/  /
    \:\~\:\/:/  / \:\~\:\ \/__/ \/__|:|/:/  /  \::/  /
     \:\ \::/  /   \:\ \:\__\       |:/:/  /    \/__/
      \:\/:/  /     \:\ \/__/       |::/  /
       \_:/__/       \:\__\         /:/  /
                      \/__/         \/__/

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#533191

Frommoroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)
Date2015-11-15 02:32 +0000
Message-ID<n28qrr$ith$1@pcls7.std.com>
In reply to#533185
john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> writes:

>Yes, we need a new theory of gravity.
>Suck Gravity doesn't even make sense

So why do you keep advocating your Suck gravity?
(I agree that disproved LeSage gravity doesn't make sense)

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#533222

Fromjohn <johnsefton288@gmail.com>
Date2015-11-14 22:15 -0800
Message-ID<b4e967e6-6839-48de-8574-1bd157b7547b@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#533191
No, Michael, YOU were the one
advocating LeSage.

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#533277

Frommoroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)
Date2015-11-15 15:24 +0000
Message-ID<n2a82r$gg1$1@pcls7.std.com>
In reply to#533222
john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> writes:

>No, Michael, YOU were the one
>advocating LeSage.

Say what?  Your kooky idea of magical particles coming from eveerywhere/
nowhere with partial blockage "sucking" gravitating objects together 
sounds a lot like discredited Le Sage gravitation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Sage%27s_theory_of_gravitation

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#533289

Fromjohn <johnsefton288@gmail.com>
Date2015-11-15 09:24 -0800
Message-ID<122d7496-1152-4595-a243-cdac96e6b8c6@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#533277
Galactic arms of stars emit neutrinos.
They travel everywhere pushing
on galactic centers.
Electrons are the fractal equivalent of
galactic arms, and emit the fractal
equivalent of neutrinos. THEY travel
everywhere pushing on protons.

So...what was your problem?

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#533429

Frommoroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)
Date2015-11-16 01:08 +0000
Message-ID<n2baa5$o4a$1@pcls7.std.com>
In reply to#533289
john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> writes:

>So...what was your problem?

That you spew word salad babble on this group and expect everyone to 
accept it as being something actually meaningful.

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#533433

Fromjohn <johnsefton288@gmail.com>
Date2015-11-15 17:13 -0800
Message-ID<51317ce8-b0cb-4630-b6c5-2ecc3ea7407d@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#533429
No word salad, Michael.
Just exploring the premise that
atoms are little galaxies and put
out the same stuff, but smaller.
New food for thought to consider
whole other realms of matter and
emr that is far too small for us to
perceive.

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#533482

Frommoroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)
Date2015-11-16 16:14 +0000
Message-ID<n2cvdg$g1n$2@pcls7.std.com>
In reply to#533433
john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> writes:

>No word salad, Michael.

Yes, it's word salad.  You just don't realize it.

>Just exploring the premise that
>atoms are little galaxies

Except that your babbling presents that as an established fact, although 
everyone else knows it's babble.

<snip babble>

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#533483

Fromjohn <johnsefton288@gmail.com>
Date2015-11-16 08:20 -0800
Message-ID<3efda0f8-ba2b-4a98-8d5f-59c57f8fba85@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#533482
And?
Which of the absurdities in
Standard Model is "established fact"?
DM?
DE?
BH?
"Point particles"?
"Virtual particles"?
"Warped Spacetime"?
"Delocalized" electrons?
"Wormholes"?

Science of FOOLS, Michael.
And you're one of them

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#533497

Frommoroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)
Date2015-11-16 16:59 +0000
Message-ID<n2d20l$i60$1@pcls7.std.com>
In reply to#533483
john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> writes:

>And?
>Which of the absurdities in
>Standard Model is "established fact"?

It is you with the laughable "established facts", not science.  In 
science, a theory can only be disproved, not proved as an "established 
fact".

>DM?
>DE?
>BH?
>"Point particles"?
>"Virtual particles"?
>"Warped Spacetime"?
>"Delocalized" electrons?

These all have fair to substantial amounts of evidence that support them,
without any evidence that refutes them.

If you don't like these, disprove them.  Don't just pull some spinny
things out of your ass and claim that this is how the universe works.

>"Wormholes"?

Speculation.

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