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Groups > sci.physics > #510247 > unrolled thread
| Started by | john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2015-07-29 12:55 -0700 |
| Last post | 2015-08-02 16:44 -0500 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 153 — 11 participants |
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Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-07-29 12:55 -0700
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2015-07-30 15:01 +0000
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-07-30 14:23 -0500
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Enomis Skating <anomis.edenomis@libero.it> - 2015-08-02 23:38 -0700
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-03 06:53 -0700
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-08-03 16:06 +0200
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-03 09:13 -0500
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-03 14:18 -0700
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-03 16:58 -0500
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-03 16:10 -0700
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-04 07:39 -0500
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-05 08:33 -0700
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-05 10:41 -0500
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-05 10:38 -0700
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-05 13:36 -0500
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" noTthaTguY <abu.kuanysh05@gmail.com> - 2015-08-05 13:11 -0700
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-05 13:24 -0700
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-05 15:35 -0500
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-05 15:50 -0700
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-05 20:05 -0500
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-05 20:04 -0700
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-05 20:22 -0700
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" HVAC <Mr.HVAC@gmail.com> - 2015-08-06 06:52 -0400
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-06 09:32 -0500
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" HVAC <Mr.HVAC@gmail.com> - 2015-08-06 12:37 -0400
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-06 12:21 -0500
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" HVAC <Mr.HVAC@gmail.com> - 2015-08-06 13:35 -0400
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-06 13:29 -0700
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-06 17:13 -0500
curvature of Universe manifest; time is not a dimesnion per se noTthaTguY <abu.kuanysh05@gmail.com> - 2015-08-06 11:06 -0700
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Enomis Skating <anomis.edenomis@libero.it> - 2015-08-05 22:59 -0700
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-06 06:32 -0700
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-06 09:36 -0500
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-06 07:51 -0700
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-06 07:51 -0700
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-06 10:22 -0500
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-06 08:34 -0700
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-06 12:17 -0500
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-06 14:35 -0700
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-06 14:51 -0700
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-06 17:22 -0500
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-06 16:47 -0700
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-07 07:38 -0500
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-07 06:27 -0700
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-07 08:49 -0500
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-07 10:11 -0700
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-07 12:47 -0500
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-07 14:40 -0500
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-07 18:56 -0700
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-08 04:59 -0700
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-08 11:23 -0700
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-08 15:33 -0500
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-08 14:23 -0700
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-09 12:36 -0700
"de- noTthaTguY <abu.kuanysh05@gmail.com> - 2015-08-09 15:45 -0700
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-10 09:00 -0500
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" HVAC <Mr.HVAC@gmail.com> - 2015-08-10 10:17 -0400
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-10 09:54 -0500
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" HVAC <Mr.HVAC@gmail.com> - 2015-08-10 13:55 -0400
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-10 11:38 -0700
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-10 13:49 -0500
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" benj <nobody@gmail.com> - 2015-08-10 18:27 -0400
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" HVAC <Mr.HVAC@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 06:41 -0400
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 05:50 -0700
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" HVAC <Mr.HVAC@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 09:16 -0400
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 06:41 -0700
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" HVAC <Mr.HVAC@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 13:38 -0400
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 10:52 -0700
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" BDK <Control@Worldcontrol.com> - 2015-08-11 14:49 -0400
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" "K Wills (Shill #3)" <compuelf@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 14:51 -0500
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" HVAC <Mr.HVAC@gmail.com> - 2015-08-12 05:30 -0400
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-10 07:56 -0700
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" "K Wills (Shill #3)" <compuelf@gmail.com> - 2015-08-10 16:28 -0500
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" benj <nobody@gmail.com> - 2015-08-10 18:21 -0400
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" HVAC <Mr.HVAC@gmail.com> - 2015-08-12 08:15 -0400
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-10 08:55 -0500
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-08 15:30 -0500
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-08 15:28 -0500
from there noTthaTguY <abu.kuanysh05@gmail.com> - 2015-08-08 13:21 -0700
to noTthaTguY <abu.kuanysh05@gmail.com> - 2015-08-07 10:16 -0700
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-06 17:20 -0500
mister Franz (sp.? noTthaTguY <abu.kuanysh05@gmail.com> - 2015-08-06 11:10 -0700
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-06 07:42 -0700
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-06 09:34 -0500
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Enomis Skating <anomis.edenomis@libero.it> - 2015-08-06 07:56 -0700
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-06 08:16 -0700
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-06 10:39 -0500
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" HVAC <Mr.HVAC@gmail.com> - 2015-08-04 09:30 -0400
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-04 12:15 -0700
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" HVAC <Mr.HVAC@gmail.com> - 2015-08-05 06:26 -0400
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-05 05:49 -0700
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2015-08-10 19:20 +0000
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-10 12:50 -0700
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-10 15:53 -0500
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-10 14:46 -0700
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-10 17:27 -0500
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-10 15:55 -0700
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2015-08-10 23:15 +0000
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-10 18:40 -0700
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-10 22:07 -0700
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 07:53 -0500
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 06:12 -0700
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 09:00 -0500
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 07:22 -0700
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 09:33 -0500
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 07:44 -0700
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 10:22 -0500
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 09:53 -0700
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 13:05 -0500
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 11:19 -0700
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 13:25 -0500
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 11:42 -0700
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 13:54 -0500
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 12:29 -0700
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 15:05 -0500
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 13:24 -0700
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 15:32 -0500
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 13:55 -0700
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 17:15 -0500
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 15:40 -0700
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-12 08:55 -0500
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-12 08:31 -0700
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-12 10:41 -0500
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-12 09:10 -0700
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-12 11:27 -0500
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-12 11:04 -0700
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2015-08-12 18:26 +0000
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-12 13:28 -0500
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-12 12:49 -0700
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-12 15:35 -0500
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2015-08-12 14:58 -0700
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-12 16:18 -0700
:=4 noTthaTguY <abu.kuanysh05@gmail.com> - 2015-08-12 16:58 -0700
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" noTthaTguY <abu.kuanysh05@gmail.com> - 2015-08-12 15:57 -0700
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" HVAC <Mr.HVAC@gmail.com> - 2015-08-12 05:32 -0400
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2015-08-11 15:13 +0000
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 07:47 -0500
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2015-08-11 15:04 +0000
ratio, aspect noTthaTguY <abu.kuanysh05@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 12:23 -0700
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-07-31 20:35 -0500
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-07-31 19:00 -0700
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-01 05:25 -0700
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2015-08-01 21:02 +0000
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" HVAC <Mr.HVAC@gmail.com> - 2015-08-02 06:50 -0400
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2015-08-01 14:05 -0700
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Enomis Skating <anomis.edenomis@libero.it> - 2015-08-02 02:28 -0700
zene o'Ben noTthaTguY <abu.kuanysh05@gmail.com> - 2015-08-02 14:14 -0700
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-02 17:01 -0500
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2015-08-01 22:48 +0000
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Enomis Skating <anomis.edenomis@libero.it> - 2015-08-02 02:21 -0700
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-02 16:57 -0500
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-02 16:59 -0500
Re: Benzene ring- nothing has to magically "delocalize" Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-02 16:44 -0500
Page 6 of 8 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 4 5 [6] 7 8 Next page →
| From | Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-11 07:53 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <mqcr8c$1c4$6@speranza.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #512602 |
On 8/10/2015 8:40 PM, john wrote: > Michael > Everything is standing waves. > But everything is particles, too. Actually, no, they're neither particles nor waves. They are quantum fields, which behave a little like particles and a little like waves and a little like something other than either one. > > How does that work? Quantum mechanics, John. Try a book. It's an interesting subject. -- Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-11 06:12 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <1b983947-b7cb-4a61-b241-9ce9947a22ec@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #512659 |
No such thing as "fields", Michael, except as a mathematical summation. In the real world there are REAL things. There ARE standing waves, but a wave is similar to a field in that it is produced by a large number of small things all doing a coordinated action. Math is not reality, Michael. Trees fall in forests with no one to see or hear them. Cats die in boxes whether you look or not. Math is a helpful tool, but not when you start thinking it's more than a description of what is or can be happening. That's part of your problem, Mochael
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| From | Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-11 09:00 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <mqcv4v$dmj$1@speranza.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #512664 |
On 8/11/2015 8:12 AM, john wrote: > No such thing as "fields", Michael, > except as a mathematical summation. Don't think that's right, John. Physicists have been saying for some time that the basis for reality of just about everything is fields. Physicists regard fields as real things, not mathematical descriptions, John. Maybe you should consider reading up on it. > In the real world there are REAL things. > There ARE standing waves, but a wave > is similar to a field in that it is produced > by a large number of small things all > doing a coordinated action. > > Math is not reality, Michael. > Trees fall in forests with no one to > see or hear them. Cats die in boxes > whether you look or not. Math is a > helpful tool, but not when you start > thinking it's more than a description of > what is or can be happening. > That's part of your problem, Mochael > -- Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-11 07:22 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <3cc70248-2a46-4233-970b-31c92bdd3a1f@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #512682 |
Odd You have math and reality mixed together.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-11 09:33 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <mqd136$j90$1@speranza.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #512689 |
On 8/11/2015 9:22 AM, john wrote: > Odd > You have math and reality mixed together. > Well, I guess that's true of physicists, then, because they are the ones saying fields are real. Now, YOU may think that fields are nothing but mathematics and are not real. But then again, you know precious little about mathematics and even less about physics, and so it's hard to take you seriously on your position, aintzatso? -- Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-11 07:44 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <f92ae058-48e4-4a1d-b3cf-de8f9dadff3c@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #512693 |
What is it that shapes a magnetic field's lines, Odd?
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-11 10:22 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <mqd404$rid$1@speranza.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #512696 |
On 8/11/2015 9:44 AM, john wrote: > What is it that shapes a magnetic field's > lines, Odd? > A magnetic field doesn't have lines, John. There are no lines on a hill either, though there are on a topographical map of a hill. A magnetic field line is a way to represent the field visually, that's all, just like a topo map is a way to represent a hill. On a field line kind of map, the spacing between adjacent lines at any point tells you how big the field is at that point, and the tangent to the line at any point tells you the direction of the field. Now, you may have seen a 3rd grade demonstration of sprinkling iron filings in a magnetic field, and somebody may have said, "See? Those are the field lines." And they would have been lying to you. What you saw is due to the tendencies of iron filings to 1) orient themselves so that their longest dimension is in the direction of the magnetic field, 2) touch each other so that the magnetic domains at the tips are reinforced by the field of a neighboring filing. This results in a pattern of iron filings that would be similar to what a magnetic field line kind of map would look like. But the iron filings are not showing you where magnetic fields lines are, because there are no such things in real life. The fact that your 3rd-grade exposure to magnetic fields is not an accurate representation may come as a huge disappointment to you. You may not want to believe that you were fooled. But if you bothered to look at an introductory physics text and READ THE WORDS and not just look at the pictures, you'd see that you were in fact fooled. -- Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables
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| From | john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-11 09:53 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <8f6aec9b-bb7f-4f5a-90c9-0f3836cc06c2@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #512710 |
Odd Exactly right. A field IS A MAP. It is not a real thing. You are making progress.
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| From | Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> |
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| Date | 2015-08-11 13:05 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <mqddhp$lmq$2@speranza.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #512731 |
On 8/11/2015 11:53 AM, john wrote: > Odd > Exactly right. > A field IS A MAP. It is not a real thing. Nope, it's a real thing, according to physicists. > You are making progress. > -- Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables
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| From | john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-11 11:19 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <f9106ce3-27c1-4e8b-a1f8-004ebec9689a@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #512761 |
It is a map of measured values at a point in space. If you are measuring magnetism, all you have to do is to move the magnet and the field moves, too, because the magnet is the source. Is the air movement around a fan a "field", Odd?
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| From | Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-11 13:25 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <mqdemh$o0t$1@speranza.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #512766 |
On 8/11/2015 1:19 PM, john wrote: > It is a map of measured values at a > point in space. Values of WHAT, John? > If you are measuring > magnetism, all you have to do is to > move the magnet and the field moves, too, because the magnet is the source. > Is the air movement around a fan > a "field", Odd? > Why, yes, John. The velocity vectors of the air at each location in space as a function of time forms a field, John. Very real thing. Atmospheric temperature maps are an example of a scalar field, as another example. Very real thing. -- Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables
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| From | john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-11 11:42 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <198121ec-7e45-46f0-8e1a-c638adc50fe7@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #512769 |
Odd It's not a thing. It's an effect. It has a source. Take away the source and there is no field. A "thing" exists on its own. Fields are not "things". They are remote effects of things.
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| From | Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-11 13:54 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <mqdgcp$slk$1@speranza.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #512774 |
On 8/11/2015 1:42 PM, john wrote: > Odd > > It's not a thing. > It's an effect. It has a source. Take > away the source and there is no > field. That's not so John. The electromagnetic field exists everywhere. Move a magnet, and all you do is change where a place of concentration is. But let's say you have a magnet in Des Moines. The field from that magnet stretches all the way to China. But let's say you take away the magnet and ship it far, far away -- all the way to China. Is there a magnetic field still there in Des Moines? Why yes, of course there is. So when you say "take it away", where are you taking it to? > A "thing" exists on its own. You say a thing exists on its own. So let's talk about a cloud. Is a cloud a thing or not? After all, depending on the collision of air masses, the cloud might appear where there wasn't one before and it might disappear an hour from now. And if a cloud disappears, has the water that makes it up disappeared? Wait, where did the water come from when the cloud appeared in the middle of the sky? You have this funny expression "thing" and a funny and vague definition of it. I wonder what you mean by it. > Fields are not "things". They are > remote effects of things. > -- Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables
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| From | john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-11 12:29 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <b6783d72-922a-484c-be20-05fdc399f2ed@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #512781 |
Odd You bob and weave like Cassius. Take the magnet away from under the paper and pour on your iron filings. Nothing. You say the field is still there? I don't understand what you're saying, Odd- do you?
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| From | Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-11 15:05 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <mqdki7$6qh$1@speranza.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #512797 |
On 8/11/2015 2:29 PM, john wrote: > Odd > You bob and weave like Cassius. > Take the magnet away from under the > paper and pour on your iron filings. > Nothing. Probably not. > You say the field is still there? Heck yes. Maybe not with enough strength to get the filings to overcome friction with the sheet of paper and to line up. > I don't understand what you're saying, > Odd- do you? > It's not surprising you don't understand what I'm saying. I'm saying that if you take a refrigerator magnet away from the refrigerator and carry it into the next room, there is still a field that is in the space between the magnet and the refrigerator, even if you can't FEEL it. On the other hand, you can't feel the earth's magnetic field (or for that matter, the sun's), but they're still there, aren't there. Note that you can't measure the earth's magnetic field by sprinkling iron filings on a sheet of paper, either, but you can find it with a Boy Scout Compass. That field is about 1/2 a gauss. Now if you want to find a field that is, say a hundredth of a gauss, then a Boy Scout compass isn't going to work either, but other devices will. John, you are completely wrapped around the axle with what you know from your common experience, which as it turns out is pretty danged limited. -- Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables
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| From | john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-11 13:24 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <8327c540-60db-4006-9d23-668fe26ad257@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #512821 |
Odd You're blowing smoke. Let's use an electromagnet. Pull the plug. Where's the field? A "field" doesn't have independent existence, Odd.
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| From | Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-11 15:32 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <mqdm3v$a7l$1@speranza.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #512825 |
On 8/11/2015 3:24 PM, john wrote: > Odd > You're blowing smoke. I really don't think so. > Let's use an electromagnet. > Pull the plug. OK. > Where's the field? Everywhere. It just doesn't have the value right here that it did before. > > A "field" doesn't have independent > existence, Odd. > Well, as we discussed, neither do clouds. Are clouds "things", John? Or are they just manifestations of temperature gradients and water vapor density? You seem to be hammering on an idea of "independent existence" that doesn't seem to have a lot of meaning. How about the word "smaller"? Does that word exist? Does it have independent existence? How about the suction from a vacuum cleaner? Does that have independent existence? -- Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables
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| From | john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-11 13:55 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <a19f7947-b371-4b40-891d-b0c54ea48c3f@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #512830 |
Odd The point is this: fields exist because of a source. something is either being actively contributed by the source which changes the space or is being actively blocked by the source which again changes the space. A "field" is a measurement of the change in the space because that "something" has been added to or subtracted from it. The question is, for each field, what is that "something"? That goes for Gravity, also.
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| From | Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-11 17:15 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <mqds5d$oe3$1@speranza.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #512841 |
On 8/11/2015 3:55 PM, john wrote: > Odd > The point is this: fields exist because > of a source. something is either being > actively contributed by the source > which changes the space or is > being actively blocked by the source > which again changes the space. There is certainly a connection between a source and a field. Likewise, Saturn's rings would not be there if you removed Saturn. The claim was, I recall, that a field is not a "thing" because it does not have independent existence. Are Saturn's rings a "thing" or not a "thing"? > > A "field" is a measurement of the > change in the space because that > "something" has been added to or > subtracted from it. > The question is, for each field, > what is that "something"? > That goes for Gravity, also. > Mass and energy are the sources for gravity. Electric charge is the source for electromagnetism. Chromodynamic color is the source for the strong nuclear field. Weak hypercharge is the source for the weak nuclear field. So what is the source for Saturn's rings, John? -- Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables
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| From | john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-11 15:40 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <272899aa-5a4c-465f-b25c-5598a41e082e@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #512861 |
Odd said "Mass and energy are the sources for gravity. " And how is that transmitted? "Electric charge is the source for electromagnetism." And how is that transmitted? " color is the source for the strong nuclear field. " And how is that transmitted? "Weak hypercharge is the source for the weak nuclear field. " And how is that transmitted? In other words- what is coming from those sources or being absorbed by those sources that changes the SPACE and creates the field, Odd? Any clues? Odd? Swarming things of some kind? Please tell me. Make it REAL simple- like Grade 3
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