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Groups > sci.physics > #497347 > unrolled thread

Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science.

Started by"Malte Runz" <malte_runz@forgitit.dk>
First post2015-06-02 23:08 +0200
Last post2015-06-05 22:20 +0000
Articles 20 on this page of 88 — 12 participants

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  Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. "Malte Runz" <malte_runz@forgitit.dk> - 2015-06-02 23:08 +0200
    Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> - 2015-06-03 10:43 -0500
      Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. "Malte Runz" <malte_runz@forgitit.dk> - 2015-06-03 19:54 +0200
        Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> - 2015-06-03 13:31 -0500
          Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. "Malte Runz" <malte_runz@forgitit.dk> - 2015-06-03 23:31 +0200
            Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> - 2015-06-05 15:31 -0500
              Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. "Malte Runz" <malte_runz@forgitit.dk> - 2015-06-06 00:01 +0200
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> - 2015-06-06 11:37 -0500
                  Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. "Malte Runz" <malte_runz@forgitit.dk> - 2015-06-07 19:14 +0200
                    Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> - 2015-06-07 17:08 -0500
                      Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. HVAC <Mr.HVAC@gmail.com> - 2015-06-07 18:54 -0400
                        Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> - 2015-06-08 06:57 -0500
                          Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. HVAC <Mr.HVAC@gmail.com> - 2015-06-08 09:26 -0400
                            Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> - 2015-06-09 14:30 -0500
                              Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. HVAC <Mr.HVAC@gmail.com> - 2015-06-10 06:31 -0400
                                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. benj <nobody@gmail.com> - 2015-06-10 11:36 -0400
                                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> - 2015-06-10 11:47 -0500
                                  Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Sesiom <invalid@invalid.com> - 2015-06-10 14:43 -0500
                                    Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. benj <nobody@gmail.com> - 2015-06-11 00:54 -0400
                                      Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. bilgat@m.nu - 2015-06-11 06:46 -0500
                                  Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. HVAC <Mr.HVAC@gmail.com> - 2015-06-11 05:32 -0400
                                    Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. benj <nobody@gmail.com> - 2015-06-11 11:48 -0400
                          Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. talishi <talishi@example.net> - 2015-06-08 19:19 -0700
                      Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. "Malte Runz" <malte_runz@forgitit.dk> - 2015-06-08 19:59 +0200
                        Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-06-09 11:05 +0100
                          Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. "Malte Runz" <malte_runz@forgitit.dk> - 2015-06-09 12:22 +0200
                            Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-06-09 14:10 +0100
                        Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> - 2015-06-09 14:49 -0500
                          Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. "Malte Runz" <malte_runz@forgitit.dk> - 2015-06-10 00:19 +0200
                            Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> - 2015-06-10 11:55 -0500
                              Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. "Malte Runz" <malte_runz@forgitit.dk> - 2015-06-10 19:13 +0200
                                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> - 2015-06-11 14:50 -0500
                                  Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. "Malte Runz" <malte_runz@forgitit.dk> - 2015-06-11 22:44 +0200
                                    Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> - 2015-06-13 14:15 -0500
                    Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2015-06-07 18:27 -0700
                      Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> - 2015-06-08 06:58 -0500
                        Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. "Malte Runz" <malte_runz@forgitit.dk> - 2015-06-08 20:32 +0200
                          Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2015-06-08 16:02 -0700
          Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. HVAC <Mr.HVAC@gmail.com> - 2015-06-05 07:08 -0400
            Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. talishi <talishi@example.net> - 2015-06-05 06:08 -0700
              Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> - 2015-06-05 15:33 -0500
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. "Malte Runz" <malte_runz@forgitit.dk> - 2015-06-07 19:18 +0200
                  Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Christopher A. Lee <c.lee@fairpoint.net> - 2015-06-07 12:24 -0500
                    Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. "Malte Runz" <malte_runz@forgitit.dk> - 2015-06-07 20:25 +0200
                      Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Christopher A. Lee <c.lee@fairpoint.net> - 2015-06-07 13:29 -0500
                      Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> - 2015-06-07 17:15 -0500
                      Re: "duke" is a chronic child. duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> - 2015-06-07 18:07 -0500
                      Re: "duke" is a chronic child. benj <nobody@gmail.com> - 2015-06-08 02:01 -0400
                  Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> - 2015-06-07 17:13 -0500
            Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. "Malte Runz" <malte_runz@forgitit.dk> - 2015-06-05 20:45 +0200
              Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> - 2015-06-05 15:34 -0500
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. "Malte Runz" <malte_runz@forgitit.dk> - 2015-06-06 00:10 +0200
                  Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> - 2015-06-06 11:38 -0500
                    Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. "Malte Runz" <malte_runz@forgitit.dk> - 2015-06-07 19:32 +0200
                      Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> - 2015-06-07 17:22 -0500
                        Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. HVAC <Mr.HVAC@gmail.com> - 2015-06-07 19:02 -0400
                          Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> - 2015-06-08 07:11 -0500
                            Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. HVAC <Mr.HVAC@gmail.com> - 2015-06-08 11:16 -0400
                              Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> - 2015-06-09 14:54 -0500
                                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. HVAC <Mr.HVAC@gmail.com> - 2015-06-10 06:44 -0400
                                  Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. benj <nobody@gmail.com> - 2015-06-10 12:14 -0400
                                  Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> - 2015-06-10 11:59 -0500
                                    Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. bilgat@m.nu - 2015-06-10 14:29 -0500
                                      Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Sesiom <invalid@invalid.com> - 2015-06-10 14:45 -0500
                                        Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. bilgat@m.nu - 2015-06-10 17:33 -0500
                                          Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Sesiom <invalid@invalid.com> - 2015-06-10 18:51 -0500
                                            Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. bilgat@m.nu - 2015-06-10 21:18 -0500
                                            Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. HVAC <Mr.HVAC@gmail.com> - 2015-06-11 05:37 -0400
                                              Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. benj <nobody@gmail.com> - 2015-06-11 11:51 -0400
                                        Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> - 2015-06-11 14:55 -0500
                                      Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> - 2015-06-11 14:54 -0500
                                        Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2015-06-11 20:37 +0000
                                          Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> - 2015-06-13 14:19 -0500
                                            Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2015-06-13 22:33 +0000
              Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2015-06-05 17:42 -0400
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2015-06-05 21:02 -0700
                  Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> - 2015-06-07 09:18 -0500
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> - 2015-06-06 11:39 -0500
            Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> - 2015-06-05 15:33 -0500
              Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. HVAC <Mr.HVAC@gmail.com> - 2015-06-06 06:07 -0400
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> - 2015-06-06 11:39 -0500
                  Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. HVAC <Mr.HVAC@gmail.com> - 2015-06-07 05:49 -0400
                    Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. "Malte Runz" <malte_runz@forgitit.dk> - 2015-06-07 12:55 +0200
                      Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> - 2015-06-07 09:21 -0500
                    Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> - 2015-06-07 09:20 -0500
                      Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. HVAC <Mr.HVAC@gmail.com> - 2015-06-07 12:12 -0400
                        Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> - 2015-06-07 17:23 -0500
            Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2015-06-05 22:20 +0000

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#499362

FromHVAC <Mr.HVAC@gmail.com>
Date2015-06-11 05:32 -0400
Message-ID<mlbkh8$cmu$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#499214
On 6/10/2015 12:47 PM, duke wrote:
>
>>>> The time for honoring yourself will soon be at an end, Duke.
>>>
>>> Everybody dies.
 >
 >
>> Can't prove it by me.
>
> You are guaranteed to be your own proof.


Not necessarily. I plan to be the first person to live forever.
Call me Lazarus Long. The Senior.

God will be PISSED!


-- 
Cut off one head, two more shall take its place.
HAIL HYDRA!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZcG5UOY224

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#499400

Frombenj <nobody@gmail.com>
Date2015-06-11 11:48 -0400
Message-ID<E5iex.132225$Lj1.112403@fx07.iad>
In reply to#499362
On 06/11/2015 05:32 AM, HVAC wrote:
> On 6/10/2015 12:47 PM, duke wrote:
>>
>>>>> The time for honoring yourself will soon be at an end, Duke.
>>>>
>>>> Everybody dies.
>  >
>  >
>>> Can't prove it by me.
>>
>> You are guaranteed to be your own proof.
>
>
> Not necessarily. I plan to be the first person to live forever.
> Call me Lazarus Long. The Senior.
>
> God will be PISSED!
>
>
Nope. YOU will be pissed when you find yourself dead and notice that you 
are a ghost just like you always believed!

-- 
         ___           ___           ___            ___
        /\  \         /\  \         /\__\          /\  \
       /::\  \       /::\  \       /::|  |         \:\  \
      /:/\:\  \     /:/\:\  \     /:|:|  |     ___ /::\__\
     /::\~\:\__\   /::\~\:\  \   /:/|:|  |__  /\  /:/\/__/
    /:/\:\ \:|__| /:/\:\ \:\__\ /:/ |:| /\__\ \:\/:/  /
    \:\~\:\/:/  / \:\~\:\ \/__/ \/__|:|/:/  /  \::/  /
     \:\ \::/  /   \:\ \:\__\       |:/:/  /    \/__/
      \:\/:/  /     \:\ \/__/       |::/  /
       \_:/__/       \:\__\         /:/  /
                      \/__/         \/__/

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#498834

Fromtalishi <talishi@example.net>
Date2015-06-08 19:19 -0700
Message-ID<ml5ihc61pl5@news6.newsguy.com>
In reply to#498623
On 06/08/2015 04:57 AM, duke wrote:
> God made me in his image.  The image of Jesus and my image are very, very close.

Jesus is the Stay-Puft Marshmallow Man!

http://thecatholiccommentator.org/pages/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/wpid-WP_IM_1334689625925__0.jpg

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#498700

From"Malte Runz" <malte_runz@forgitit.dk>
Date2015-06-08 19:59 +0200
Message-ID<5575d7fe$0$23233$edfadb0f@dtext01.news.tele.dk>
In reply to#498493
"duke"  skrev i meddelelsen 
news:plf9nadto9cscdh07spgqj4vm8dig4oldd@4ax.com...
>
> On Sun, 7 Jun 2015 19:14:17 +0200, "Malte Runz" <malte_runz@forgitit.dk> 
> wrote:
>
> >"duke"  skrev i meddelelsen
> >news:2486na5u5ehmgt40boevdp8s17567oidbr@4ax.com...
> >>
> >> On Sat, 6 Jun 2015 00:01:31 +0200, "Malte Runz" 
> >> <malte_runz@forgitit.dk>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >"duke"  skrev i meddelelsen
> >> >news:3g14nalvj7vq6cv3pm5n1fqe50l315f08r@4ax.com...
> >> >>
> >> >> On Wed, 3 Jun 2015 23:31:45 +0200, "Malte Runz"
> >> >> <malte_runz@forgitit.dk>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >"duke"  skrev i meddelelsen
> >> >> >news:aohumada32jvdb12snvfhtrp22pq9tnlib@4ax.com...
> >> >> >>
> >(snip)
> >
> >> >> >> ... you are literally
> >> >> >> asking for the fires of hell. ...
> >> >>
> >> >> >No, not literally. Understand once and for all that nobody wants to 
> >> >> >go
> >> >> >to
> >> >> >Hell.
> >> >>
> >> >> Yes, you do. ...
> >> >
> >> >No, I don't. I repeat: I do not wish to go to Hell. You can quote me 
> >> >on
> >> >that.
> >>
> >> You say you do by the way you reject God in your life. ...
> >So, I didn't ask for the flames "literally". Moving on.
>
> Yet that is your fate for living contrary to God.

And God decided that burning forever is punishment for "living contrary to 
God". Being omnipotent he could have chosen a less sever punishment, right?

>
> >> ... You can quote God on
> >> that.
>
> >On what? Show me words there are, beyond any reasonable doubt, God's.
>
> there are 2.2 billion people min alive and well today that disagree with 
> you.

Argumentum ad populum. Dismissed.

>
> >> >> ... You know it's listen or the flames.  You deny listening.
> >> >I don't believe in God, Hell, Satan or Jesus Christ.
> >> You're still being judged by God.  You don't get a vote.
>
> >See why I keep calling you a fascist. You're against democracy, you're
> >voluntarily kau tau'ing to the brutal leader and you wish eternal torture 
> >on
> >those who dare to be different.
>
> God doesn't run a democracy.  You only get an invitation to his heavenly 
> kingdom
> for all eternity if you live his way.  Otherwise you get left behind for 
> use by
> satan.

QED, duce.

>
> >> >Why has God made the rules? Why is the punishment so harsh? Why is
> >> >torture
> >> >not evil?
>
> God created all things, and he made the rules for our participation.  If 
> you
> tell him ...

I don't talk to God. My choice are made as if there is no god to judge me. I 
am an atheist. I don't believe gods exist.

> ... to get lost as you do, you are the one relegating yourself to be left
> behind.

And your loving God leaves me to burn forever. Amen!

>
> >> God doesn't torture you. ...
> >He's the one sending me to Hell, right. That makes him responsible.
>
> No, YOU are the one sending youself to hell.

Bull. I live my life the way I want. I don't kill, rape or steal. I'm pretty 
much what you'd call 'a good guy, a decent fellow, a friendly person, who 
goes out of his way to help others'. My only 'sin' is that I don't believe 
that everything is created by the god in the Bible. Enter God, who says that 
that kind of life is evil, and the punishment he has chosen for me is 
eternal torture. Why does he do that? Why allow me to be torured when he 
could easily (he is after all the omnipotent creator of everything) prevent 
it?

>
> >> ... Satan does that after you are left behind.
>
> >Why doesn't God put an end to it? If he's omnipotent he could blow out 
> >the
> >flames of hell, and show love and mercy to all of us.
>
> Love and Mercy for one who rejects his own love and mercy to his fellow 
> man.

Come again? What am I doing? Be very specific, and expect follow-up 
questions.


> You're kidding.  Right??

No, I'm once again confused. Your words make no sense to me.

>
> > (And no, I do not want
> >to go to hell, I don't desire the flames, I haven't expressed a wish for
> >being tortured for all eternity.)
>
> It's an automatic ruling ...

No, it's God's ruling. Only God decides what the punishment for people like 
me is. Very much against all my wishes and expressed desires.

> ... based on how you choose to live out your life in the
> flesh.

And at no point do I choose to live my life in a certain way because I want 
to be tortured forever. We need to be very clear on this. Do you accept, 
that being tortured for all eternity is not something I desire? Yes or no, 
please. No need to tell me that the flames are a consequence of my choices.

>
> >> Not like your hatred for God gives you a hard on.
> >As you know, I don't believe in neither God nor Satan. Do you hate Santa?
>
> Nope.

But you don't believe he is real. I don't believe God is real, and you call 
that 'hate'. Classic case of double standard.
(I sense a case of special pleading coming up)

>
> >> >> ... It's all your choice.
> >> >If it were, I'd choose to not go to Hell.
> >> Then you better change your evil ways quickly
>
> >You keep saying I'm evil. I understand why you need to believe that, but
> >what is it that I do that makes me evil?
>
> God told you what evil is.  You refuse to listen.

I don't hear voices in my heart. I need something a bit more tangible than 
hearsay and a translation of a translation of a copy of translation of an 
old book full of ancient myths.


-- 
Malte Runz 

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#498873

From"Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk>
Date2015-06-09 11:05 +0100
Message-ID<hcnt9wqpi1x3$.ae9khndrmc4n$.dlg@40tude.net>
In reply to#498700
On Mon, 8 Jun 2015 19:59:26 +0200, Malte Runz wrote:

> "duke"  skrev i meddelelsen 
> news:plf9nadto9cscdh07spgqj4vm8dig4oldd@4ax.com...
>>
>> On Sun, 7 Jun 2015 19:14:17 +0200, "Malte Runz" <malte_runz@forgitit.dk> 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>"duke"  skrev i meddelelsen
>>>news:2486na5u5ehmgt40boevdp8s17567oidbr@4ax.com...
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, 6 Jun 2015 00:01:31 +0200, "Malte Runz" 
>>>> <malte_runz@forgitit.dk>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >"duke"  skrev i meddelelsen
>>>> >news:3g14nalvj7vq6cv3pm5n1fqe50l315f08r@4ax.com...
>>>> >>
>>>> >> On Wed, 3 Jun 2015 23:31:45 +0200, "Malte Runz"
>>>> >> <malte_runz@forgitit.dk>
>>>> >> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> >"duke"  skrev i meddelelsen
>>>> >> >news:aohumada32jvdb12snvfhtrp22pq9tnlib@4ax.com...
>>>> >> >>
>>>(snip)
>>>
>>>> >> >> ... you are literally
>>>> >> >> asking for the fires of hell. ...
>>>> >>
>>>> >> >No, not literally. Understand once and for all that nobody wants to 
>>>> >> >go
>>>> >> >to
>>>> >> >Hell.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Yes, you do. ...
>>>> >
>>>> >No, I don't. I repeat: I do not wish to go to Hell. You can quote me 
>>>> >on
>>>> >that.
>>>>
>>>> You say you do by the way you reject God in your life. ...
>>>So, I didn't ask for the flames "literally". Moving on.
>>
>> Yet that is your fate for living contrary to God.
> 
> And God decided that burning forever is punishment for "living contrary to 
> God". Being omnipotent he could have chosen a less sever punishment, right?

Being forced to live forever worshipping god 24/7 is the
lesser punishment...


> 
>>
>>>> ... You can quote God on
>>>> that.
>>
>>>On what? Show me words there are, beyond any reasonable doubt, God's.
>>
>> there are 2.2 billion people min alive and well today that disagree with 
>> you.
> 
> Argumentum ad populum. Dismissed.

Why do they always think this is a beauty contest or an
internet poll?


> 
>>
>>>> God doesn't torture you. ...
>>>He's the one sending me to Hell, right. That makes him responsible.
>>
>> No, YOU are the one sending youself to hell.
> 
> Bull. I live my life the way I want. I don't kill, rape or steal. I'm pretty 
> much what you'd call 'a good guy, a decent fellow, a friendly person, who 
> goes out of his way to help others'. My only 'sin' is that I don't believe 
> that everything is created by the god in the Bible. Enter God, who says that 
> that kind of life is evil, and the punishment he has chosen for me is 
> eternal torture. Why does he do that? Why allow me to be torured when he 
> could easily (he is after all the omnipotent creator of everything) prevent 
> it?

Imagine separating your garbage, driving an electric car,
installing solar panels on your roof and donating both your
time and significant portions of your income to social
causes ... and then being condemned by Enhedslisten – De
Rød-Grønne because you're not a party member.  

Or, in American terms, being shouted at as an Un-American
liberal foreigner-loving socialist because you support guns
and the explusion of migrants without being a Tea Party
affiliate....

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#498875

From"Malte Runz" <malte_runz@forgitit.dk>
Date2015-06-09 12:22 +0200
Message-ID<5576be53$0$23236$edfadb0f@dtext01.news.tele.dk>
In reply to#498873
"Alex W."  skrev i meddelelsen 
news:hcnt9wqpi1x3$.ae9khndrmc4n$.dlg@40tude.net...
>
> On Mon, 8 Jun 2015 19:59:26 +0200, Malte Runz wrote:
>

(snip)

> > And God decided that burning forever is punishment for "living contrary 
> > to
> > God". Being omnipotent he could have chosen a less sever punishment, 
> > right?
>
> Being forced to live forever worshipping god 24/7 is the
> lesser punishment...

"Forever" is the scary part in either case.

> >>>> ... You can quote God on
> >>>> that.
> >>
> >>>On what? Show me words there are, beyond any reasonable doubt, God's.
> >>
> >> there are 2.2 billion people min alive and well today that disagree 
> >> with
> >> you.
> >
> > Argumentum ad populum. Dismissed.
>
> Why do they always think this is a beauty contest or an
> internet poll?

10 trillion flies... I wonder if that kind of argument is what convinced 
them in the first place, or if it is merely used to justify their beliefs.


> >>>> God doesn't torture you. ...
> >>>He's the one sending me to Hell, right. That makes him responsible.
> >>
> >> No, YOU are the one sending youself to hell.
> >
> > Bull. I live my life the way I want. I don't kill, rape or steal. I'm 
> > pretty
> > much what you'd call 'a good guy, a decent fellow, a friendly person, 
> > who
> > goes out of his way to help others'. My only 'sin' is that I don't 
> > believe
> > that everything is created by the god in the Bible. Enter God, who says 
> > that
> > that kind of life is evil, and the punishment he has chosen for me is
> > eternal torture. Why does he do that? Why allow me to be torured when he
> > could easily (he is after all the omnipotent creator of everything) 
> > prevent
> > it?
>
> Imagine separating your garbage, driving an electric car,
> installing solar panels on your roof and donating both your
> time and significant portions of your income to social
> causes ... and then being condemned by Enhedslisten – De
> Rød-Grønne because you're not a party member.

How do you know about Enhedslisten? Er du dansk?

>
> Or, in American terms, being shouted at as an Un-American
> liberal foreigner-loving socialist because you support guns
> and the explusion of migrants without being a Tea Party
> affiliate....

It's 'you're either with us or against us' all over again.

-- 
Malte Runz 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#498888

From"Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk>
Date2015-06-09 14:10 +0100
Message-ID<japn75egku84.gv648n5ghxj7.dlg@40tude.net>
In reply to#498875
On Tue, 9 Jun 2015 12:22:11 +0200, Malte Runz wrote:

> "Alex W."  skrev i meddelelsen 
> news:hcnt9wqpi1x3$.ae9khndrmc4n$.dlg@40tude.net...
>>
>> On Mon, 8 Jun 2015 19:59:26 +0200, Malte Runz wrote:
>>
> 
> (snip)
> 
>>> And God decided that burning forever is punishment for "living contrary 
>>> to
>>> God". Being omnipotent he could have chosen a less sever punishment, 
>>> right?
>>
>> Being forced to live forever worshipping god 24/7 is the
>> lesser punishment...
> 
> "Forever" is the scary part in either case.
> 
>>>>>> ... You can quote God on
>>>>>> that.
>>>>
>>>>>On what? Show me words there are, beyond any reasonable doubt, God's.
>>>>
>>>> there are 2.2 billion people min alive and well today that disagree 
>>>> with
>>>> you.
>>>
>>> Argumentum ad populum. Dismissed.
>>
>> Why do they always think this is a beauty contest or an
>> internet poll?
> 
> 10 trillion flies... I wonder if that kind of argument is what convinced 
> them in the first place, or if it is merely used to justify their beliefs.

It's the "safety in numbers" approach.
And of course, humans are intensely tribal creatures.  So
being able to say "my tribe is bigger than yours" has a
natural attraction....

How this fits in with the assertion that "god does not run a
democracy" and by direct implication that numbers do not
matter at all, I cannot figure out...


> 
> 
>>>>>> God doesn't torture you. ...
>>>>>He's the one sending me to Hell, right. That makes him responsible.
>>>>
>>>> No, YOU are the one sending youself to hell.
>>>
>>> Bull. I live my life the way I want. I don't kill, rape or steal. I'm 
>>> pretty
>>> much what you'd call 'a good guy, a decent fellow, a friendly person, 
>>> who
>>> goes out of his way to help others'. My only 'sin' is that I don't 
>>> believe
>>> that everything is created by the god in the Bible. Enter God, who says 
>>> that
>>> that kind of life is evil, and the punishment he has chosen for me is
>>> eternal torture. Why does he do that? Why allow me to be torured when he
>>> could easily (he is after all the omnipotent creator of everything) 
>>> prevent
>>> it?
>>
>> Imagine separating your garbage, driving an electric car,
>> installing solar panels on your roof and donating both your
>> time and significant portions of your income to social
>> causes ... and then being condemned by Enhedslisten – De
>> Rød-Grønne because you're not a party member.
> 
> How do you know about Enhedslisten? Er du dansk?

Nah.
I am a lifetime reader of the Economist.  I like to read up
on all sorts of stuff.  Plus, they have been mentioned in
the press, often in connection with the DF as examples of
newer more extreme parties in Europe as well as a
Europe-wide Eurosceptic movement.

Oh, and I have spent many a pleasant summer sailing
there....  


> 
>>
>> Or, in American terms, being shouted at as an Un-American
>> liberal foreigner-loving socialist because you support guns
>> and the explusion of migrants without being a Tea Party
>> affiliate....
> 
> It's 'you're either with us or against us' all over again.

It's worse than that.
It's "if you're with us but do not carry the correct party
membership, you are not really with us".

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#498999

Fromduke <duckgumbo32@cox.net>
Date2015-06-09 14:49 -0500
Message-ID<jqfena9p4heh3joiimqr9lc8pulc7cv8p6@4ax.com>
In reply to#498700
On Mon, 8 Jun 2015 19:59:26 +0200, "Malte Runz" <malte_runz@forgitit.dk> wrote:

>> >> You say you do by the way you reject God in your life. ...
>> >So, I didn't ask for the flames "literally". Moving on.
>>
>> Yet that is your fate for living contrary to God.

>And God decided that burning forever is punishment for "living contrary to 
>God". Being omnipotent he could have chosen a less sever punishment, right?

God calls for the love and goodness to come out of your heart.  If it can't,
your fated is determined,

>> >> >> ... You know it's listen or the flames.  You deny listening.
>> >> >I don't believe in God, Hell, Satan or Jesus Christ.
>> >> You're still being judged by God.  You don't get a vote.
>>
>> >See why I keep calling you a fascist. You're against democracy, you're
>> >voluntarily kau tau'ing to the brutal leader and you wish eternal torture 
>> >on
>> >those who dare to be different.

>> God doesn't run a democracy.  You only get an invitation to his heavenly 
>> kingdom for all eternity if you live his way.  Otherwise you get left behind for 
>> use by  satan.
>QED, duce.

All of us face that.  That's why I spend so much of my time living as he calls
me.  You live as satan calls you.

>> >> >Why has God made the rules? Why is the punishment so harsh? Why is
>> >> >torture
>> >> >not evil?

>> God created all things, and he made the rules for our participation.  If 
>> you  tell him ...

>I don't talk to God. My choice are made as if there is no god to judge me. I 
>am an atheist. I don't believe gods exist.

He's all powerful.  He well knows what is in your heart.

>> ... to get lost as you do, you are the one relegating yourself to be left
>> behind.
>And your loving God leaves me to burn forever. Amen!

It's your announced choice if that's your eternal fate.


>> >> God doesn't torture you. ...
>> >He's the one sending me to Hell, right. That makes him responsible.
>>
>> No, YOU are the one sending youself to hell.

>Bull. I live my life the way I want. 

Exactly, and you free deviate form our call of God if you wish.

>I don't kill, rape or steal. I'm pretty 
>much what you'd call 'a good guy, a decent fellow, a friendly person, who 
>goes out of his way to help others'. My only 'sin' is that I don't believe 
>that everything is created by the god in the Bible. Enter God, who says that 
>that kind of life is evil, and the punishment he has chosen for me is 
>eternal torture. Why does he do that? Why allow me to be torured when he 
>could easily (he is after all the omnipotent creator of everything) prevent 
>it?

Are you trying to blame God for your bad actions?

>> >> ... Satan does that after you are left behind.
>>
>> >Why doesn't God put an end to it? If he's omnipotent he could blow out 
>> >the
>> >flames of hell, and show love and mercy to all of us.

>> Love and Mercy for one who rejects his own love and mercy to his fellow 
>> man.
>Come again? What am I doing? Be very specific, and expect follow-up 
>questions.

I have no idea what you're guilty of.  You're the confused one that believes
you're a good guy that will be tortured forever.  If that's true, you're dealing
with satan and not God.

>> You're kidding.  Right??
>No, I'm once again confused. Your words make no sense to me.

The feeling is mutual.

>> > (And no, I do not want
>> >to go to hell, I don't desire the flames, I haven't expressed a wish for
>> >being tortured for all eternity.)
>>
>> It's an automatic ruling ...

>No, it's God's ruling. Only God decides what the punishment for people like 
>me is. Very much against all my wishes and expressed desires.

Then change your ways and follow God for salvation

>> ... based on how you choose to live out your life in the
>> flesh.

>And at no point do I choose to live my life in a certain way because I want 
>to be tortured forever. We need to be very clear on this. Do you accept, 
>that being tortured for all eternity is not something I desire? Yes or no, 
>please. No need to tell me that the flames are a consequence of my choices.

Your choices are what counts.

>> >> Not like your hatred for God gives you a hard on.
>> >As you know, I don't believe in neither God nor Satan. Do you hate Santa?
>>
>> Nope.

>But you don't believe he is real. I don't believe God is real, and you call 
>that 'hate'. Classic case of double standard.
>(I sense a case of special pleading coming up)

It doesn't matter if you believe God is real or not.  It's your actions that set
you free or condemn you - God's decision.  So if you make bad choices, you are
condemning yourself.

>> >> >> ... It's all your choice.
>> >> >If it were, I'd choose to not go to Hell.
>> >> Then you better change your evil ways quickly
>>
>> >You keep saying I'm evil. I understand why you need to believe that, but
>> >what is it that I do that makes me evil?

>> God told you what evil is.  You refuse to listen.

>I don't hear voices in my heart. I need something a bit more tangible than 
>hearsay and a translation of a translation of a copy of translation of an 
>old book full of ancient myths.

You have the same thing the rest of us have.  Why are you so bad?

the dukester, American-American

*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#499074

From"Malte Runz" <malte_runz@forgitit.dk>
Date2015-06-10 00:19 +0200
Message-ID<55776658$0$23222$edfadb0f@dtext01.news.tele.dk>
In reply to#498999
"duke"  skrev i meddelelsen 
news:jqfena9p4heh3joiimqr9lc8pulc7cv8p6@4ax.com...
>
> On Mon, 8 Jun 2015 19:59:26 +0200, "Malte Runz" <malte_runz@forgitit.dk> 
> wrote:
>
> >> >> You say you do by the way you reject God in your life. ...
> >> >So, I didn't ask for the flames "literally". Moving on.
> >>
> >> Yet that is your fate for living contrary to God.
>
> >And God decided that burning forever is punishment for "living contrary 
> >to
> >God". Being omnipotent he could have chosen a less sever punishment, 
> >right?
>
> God calls for the love and goodness to come out of your heart.  If it 
> can't,
> your fated is determined,

But why did he decide that the punishment should be eternal torture? I've 
asked many times but you never answer.

>
> >> >> >> ... You know it's listen or the flames.  You deny listening.
> >> >> >I don't believe in God, Hell, Satan or Jesus Christ.
> >> >> You're still being judged by God.  You don't get a vote.
> >>
> >> >See why I keep calling you a fascist. You're against democracy, you're
> >> >voluntarily kau tau'ing to the brutal leader and you wish eternal 
> >> >torture
> >> >on
> >> >those who dare to be different.
>
> >> God doesn't run a democracy.  You only get an invitation to his 
> >> heavenly
> >> kingdom for all eternity if you live his way.  Otherwise you get left 
> >> behind for
> >> use by  satan.
> >QED, duce.
>
> All of us face that.  That's why I spend so much of my time living as he 
> calls
> me.  You live as satan calls you.

I don't believe that satan exists and can therefor not heed his call.

>
> >> >> >Why has God made the rules? Why is the punishment so harsh? Why is
> >> >> >torture
> >> >> >not evil?
>
> >> God created all things, and he made the rules for our participation. 
> >> If
> >> you  tell him ...
>
> >I don't talk to God. My choice are made as if there is no god to judge 
> >me. I
> >am an atheist. I don't believe gods exist.
>
> He's all powerful.  He well knows what is in your heart.

And all he sees is evil, right.

>
> >> ... to get lost as you do, you are the one relegating yourself to be 
> >> left
> >> behind.
> >And your loving God leaves me to burn forever. Amen!
>
> It's your announced choice if that's your eternal fate.

I never chose eternal torture. The torture is the consequence of my choices 
you say. You also say God made the rules. He decided what are good choices 
and decided what the punishment for not following him should be.


> >> >> God doesn't torture you. ...
> >> >He's the one sending me to Hell, right. That makes him responsible.
> >>
> >> No, YOU are the one sending youself to hell.
>
> >Bull. I live my life the way I want.
>
> Exactly, and you free deviate form our call of God if you wish.
>
> >I don't kill, rape or steal. I'm pretty
> >much what you'd call 'a good guy, a decent fellow, a friendly person, who
> >goes out of his way to help others'. My only 'sin' is that I don't 
> >believe
> >that everything is created by the god in the Bible. Enter God, who says 
> >that
> >that kind of life is evil, and the punishment he has chosen for me is
> >eternal torture. Why does he do that? Why allow me to be torured when he
> >could easily (he is after all the omnipotent creator of everything) 
> >prevent
> >it?
>
> Are you trying to blame God for your bad actions?

Which bad actions? You really need to answer that question.

>
> >> >> ... Satan does that after you are left behind.
> >>
> >> >Why doesn't God put an end to it? If he's omnipotent he could blow out
> >> >the
> >> >flames of hell, and show love and mercy to all of us.
>
> >> Love and Mercy for one who rejects his own love and mercy to his fellow
> >> man.
> >Come again? What am I doing? Be very specific, and expect follow-up
> >questions.
>
> I have no idea what you're guilty of. ...

But you keep telling me that I am evil, and deserve to be tortured for all 
eternity. You must have some idea what is I do.

> ... You're the confused one that believes
> you're a good guy that will be tortured forever. ...

Of course I don't believe I'll be tortured, silly man. We talking about that 
horrible fate you think I deserve, and what kind of person that makes you.

(snip)

> >And at no point do I choose to live my life in a certain way because I 
> >want
> >to be tortured forever. We need to be very clear on this. Do you accept,
> >that being tortured for all eternity is not something I desire? Yes or 
> >no,
> >please. No need to tell me that the flames are a consequence of my 
> >choices.
>
> Your choices are what counts.

I know you believe that my choices are so bad, that poor God has no choice 
but to leave me. That is not what I am asking about. So I try again: Do you 
accept that it is not my wish burned forever?


> >> >> Not like your hatred for God gives you a hard on.
> >> >As you know, I don't believe in neither God nor Satan. Do you hate 
> >> >Santa?
> >>
> >> Nope.
>
> >But you don't believe he is real. I don't believe God is real, and you 
> >call
> >that 'hate'. Classic case of double standard.
> >(I sense a case of special pleading coming up)
>
> It doesn't matter if you believe God is real or not. ...

It sure does when you accuse me of harboruing "hatred for God". If I don't 
believe he exists I cannot hate him. Even you should be able to get that.

(snip)


> >> God told you what evil is.  You refuse to listen.
>
> >I don't hear voices in my heart. I need something a bit more tangible 
> >than
> >hearsay and a translation of a translation of a copy of translation of an
> >old book full of ancient myths.
>
> You have the same thing the rest of us have. ...

I hope not. Is there are cure out there?

> ... Why are you so bad?

Okay... I've had it with you calling me bad and evil without telling me 
exactly what is I do. I've asked you many times, but you have failed to 
reply. Last chance. Why do you say I am "so bad"?



-- 
Malte Runz 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#499217

Fromduke <duckgumbo32@cox.net>
Date2015-06-10 11:55 -0500
Message-ID<ejqgnat6ogcncss1j4t4muv6jvb2t8rqk8@4ax.com>
In reply to#499074
On Wed, 10 Jun 2015 00:19:05 +0200, "Malte Runz" <malte_runz@forgitit.dk> wrote:

>"duke"  skrev i meddelelsen 
>news:jqfena9p4heh3joiimqr9lc8pulc7cv8p6@4ax.com...
>>
>> On Mon, 8 Jun 2015 19:59:26 +0200, "Malte Runz" <malte_runz@forgitit.dk> 
>> wrote:
>>
>> >> >> You say you do by the way you reject God in your life. ...
>> >> >So, I didn't ask for the flames "literally". Moving on.
>> >>
>> >> Yet that is your fate for living contrary to God.
>>
>> >And God decided that burning forever is punishment for "living contrary 
>> >to
>> >God". Being omnipotent he could have chosen a less sever punishment, 
>> >right?
>>
>> God calls for the love and goodness to come out of your heart.  If it 
>> can't,
>> your fated is determined,
>
>But why did he decide that the punishment should be eternal torture? I've 
>asked many times but you never answer.

I don't know.  "Eternal torture" is an atheist term.  I never heard God use it.

>> >> >> >> ... You know it's listen or the flames.  You deny listening.
>> >> >> >I don't believe in God, Hell, Satan or Jesus Christ.
>> >> >> You're still being judged by God.  You don't get a vote.
>> >>
>> >> >See why I keep calling you a fascist. You're against democracy, you're
>> >> >voluntarily kau tau'ing to the brutal leader and you wish eternal 
>> >> >torture
>> >> >on
>> >> >those who dare to be different.
>>
>> >> God doesn't run a democracy.  You only get an invitation to his 
>> >> heavenly
>> >> kingdom for all eternity if you live his way.  Otherwise you get left 
>> >> behind for
>> >> use by  satan.
>> >QED, duce.
>
>> All of us face that.  That's why I spend so much of my time living as he 
>> calls
>> me.  You live as satan calls you.

>I don't believe that satan exists and can therefor not heed his call.

Your funeral.

>> >> >> >Why has God made the rules? Why is the punishment so harsh? Why is
>> >> >> >torture
>> >> >> >not evil?
>>
>> >> God created all things, and he made the rules for our participation. 
>> >> If
>> >> you  tell him ...
>>
>> >I don't talk to God. My choice are made as if there is no god to judge 
>> >me. I
>> >am an atheist. I don't believe gods exist.
>>
>> He's all powerful.  He well knows what is in your heart.
>
>And all he sees is evil, right.

No, but he knows which one of us represents what.

>> >> ... to get lost as you do, you are the one relegating yourself to be 
>> >> left
>> >> behind.
>> >And your loving God leaves me to burn forever. Amen!
>>
>> It's your announced choice if that's your eternal fate.

>I never chose eternal torture. The torture is the consequence of my choices 
>you say. You also say God made the rules. He decided what are good choices 
>and decided what the punishment for not following him should be.

Pretty much.

>> >> >> God doesn't torture you. ...
>> >> >He's the one sending me to Hell, right. That makes him responsible.
>> >>
>> >> No, YOU are the one sending youself to hell.
>>
>> >Bull. I live my life the way I want.

>> Exactly, and you free deviate form our call of God if you wish.

Heeheehee.

>> >I don't kill, rape or steal. I'm pretty
>> >much what you'd call 'a good guy, a decent fellow, a friendly person, who
>> >goes out of his way to help others'. My only 'sin' is that I don't 
>> >believe
>> >that everything is created by the god in the Bible. Enter God, who says 
>> >that
>> >that kind of life is evil, and the punishment he has chosen for me is
>> >eternal torture. Why does he do that? Why allow me to be torured when he
>> >could easily (he is after all the omnipotent creator of everything) 
>> >prevent
>> >it?
>
>> Are you trying to blame God for your bad actions?
>Which bad actions? You really need to answer that question.

I don't know.   Only you and God know of them.

>>
>> >> >> ... Satan does that after you are left behind.
>> >>
>> >> >Why doesn't God put an end to it? If he's omnipotent he could blow out
>> >> >the
>> >> >flames of hell, and show love and mercy to all of us.
>>
>> >> Love and Mercy for one who rejects his own love and mercy to his fellow
>> >> man.
>> >Come again? What am I doing? Be very specific, and expect follow-up
>> >questions.
>>
>> I have no idea what you're guilty of. ...

>But you keep telling me that I am evil, and deserve to be tortured for all 
>eternity. You must have some idea what is I do.

No, because that is the image of yourself that you keep projecting.

>> ... You're the confused one that believes
>> you're a good guy that will be tortured forever. ...

>Of course I don't believe I'll be tortured, silly man. We talking about that 
>horrible fate you think I deserve, and what kind of person that makes you.

I don't know what you deserve.   It's not my call.

>(snip)
>
>> >And at no point do I choose to live my life in a certain way because I 
>> >want
>> >to be tortured forever. We need to be very clear on this. Do you accept,
>> >that being tortured for all eternity is not something I desire? Yes or 
>> >no,
>> >please. No need to tell me that the flames are a consequence of my 
>> >choices.
>>
>> Your choices are what counts.

>I know you believe that my choices are so bad, that poor God has no choice 
>but to leave me. That is not what I am asking about. So I try again: Do you 
>accept that it is not my wish burned forever?

I don't know. 

>> >> >> Not like your hatred for God gives you a hard on.
>> >> >As you know, I don't believe in neither God nor Satan. Do you hate 
>> >> >Santa?
>> >>
>> >> Nope.
>>
>> >But you don't believe he is real. I don't believe God is real, and you 
>> >call
>> >that 'hate'. Classic case of double standard.
>> >(I sense a case of special pleading coming up)
>>
>> It doesn't matter if you believe God is real or not. ...

>It sure does when you accuse me of harboruing "hatred for God". If I don't 
>believe he exists I cannot hate him. Even you should be able to get that.

That's right.  I don't know what you represent.

>(snip)

>> >> God told you what evil is.  You refuse to listen.
>> >I don't hear voices in my heart. I need something a bit more tangible 
>> >than
>> >hearsay and a translation of a translation of a copy of translation of an
>> >old book full of ancient myths.

>> You have the same thing the rest of us have. ...
>I hope not. Is there are cure out there?

For us, it doesn't mean hell.

>> ... Why are you so bad?

>Okay... I've had it with you calling me bad and evil without telling me 
>exactly what is I do. I've asked you many times, but you have failed to 
>reply. Last chance. Why do you say I am "so bad"?

I told you - that's the way you present yourself.

the dukester, American-American

*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#499225

From"Malte Runz" <malte_runz@forgitit.dk>
Date2015-06-10 19:13 +0200
Message-ID<55787043$0$23221$edfadb0f@dtext01.news.tele.dk>
In reply to#499217
"duke"  skrev i meddelelsen 
news:ejqgnat6ogcncss1j4t4muv6jvb2t8rqk8@4ax.com...
>
> On Wed, 10 Jun 2015 00:19:05 +0200, "Malte Runz" <malte_runz@forgitit.dk> 
> wrote:
>
> >"duke"  skrev i meddelelsen
> >news:jqfena9p4heh3joiimqr9lc8pulc7cv8p6@4ax.com...
> >>
> >> On Mon, 8 Jun 2015 19:59:26 +0200, "Malte Runz" 
> >> <malte_runz@forgitit.dk>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >> >> You say you do by the way you reject God in your life. ...
> >> >> >So, I didn't ask for the flames "literally". Moving on.
> >> >>
> >> >> Yet that is your fate for living contrary to God.
> >>
> >> >And God decided that burning forever is punishment for "living 
> >> >contrary
> >> >to
> >> >God". Being omnipotent he could have chosen a less sever punishment,
> >> >right?
> >>
> >> God calls for the love and goodness to come out of your heart.  If it
> >> can't,
> >> your fated is determined,
> >
> >But why did he decide that the punishment should be eternal torture? I've
> >asked many times but you never answer.
>
> I don't know.  "Eternal torture" is an atheist term.  I never heard God 
> use it.

What happens in Hell? You burn in the flames.
For how long? For all eternity.
Do the math.

(snip)


> >> He's all powerful.  He well knows what is in your heart.
> >
> >And all he sees is evil, right.
>
> No, ...

Sure?


> >I never chose eternal torture. The torture is the consequence of my 
> >choices
> >you say. You also say God made the rules. He decided what are good 
> >choices
> >and decided what the punishment for not following him should be.
>
> Pretty much.

Finally. Now, why is the punishment so harsh?


(snip)

> >> Are you trying to blame God for your bad actions?
> >Which bad actions? You really need to answer that question.
>
> I don't know. ...

You keep telling me that I'll end up in Hell because of my "bad actions", 
yet you don't know what they are. What does that make you?

> ...  Only you and God know of them.

I don't believe in any gods. I have had plenty of sex out of wedlock. I have 
taken mild drugs. I have shoplifted maybe ten times as a juvenile. I have 
been drunk. I tell my share of white lies. Now you know my sins too. Would 
you send me to Hell, based on what you know now, if you were in charge?

(snip)

> >I know you believe that my choices are so bad, that poor God has no 
> >choice
> >but to leave me. That is not what I am asking about. So I try again: Do 
> >you
> >accept that it is not my wish burned forever?
>
> I don't know.

I think you do, but you just don't want the thought manifest itself in your 
mind.

(snip)

> >> ... Why are you so bad?
>
> >Okay... I've had it with you calling me bad and evil without telling me
> >exactly what is I do. I've asked you many times, but you have failed to
> >reply. Last chance. Why do you say I am "so bad"?
>
> I told you - that's the way you present yourself.

Examples, please.



-- 
Malte Runz 

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#499471

Fromduke <duckgumbo32@cox.net>
Date2015-06-11 14:50 -0500
Message-ID<83pjnaheh2fkd1nda72rpnjs02b1pr65pn@4ax.com>
In reply to#499225
On Wed, 10 Jun 2015 19:13:40 +0200, "Malte Runz" <malte_runz@forgitit.dk> wrote:

>"duke"  skrev i meddelelsen 
>news:ejqgnat6ogcncss1j4t4muv6jvb2t8rqk8@4ax.com...
>>
>> On Wed, 10 Jun 2015 00:19:05 +0200, "Malte Runz" <malte_runz@forgitit.dk> 
>> wrote:
>>
>> >"duke"  skrev i meddelelsen
>> >news:jqfena9p4heh3joiimqr9lc8pulc7cv8p6@4ax.com...
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, 8 Jun 2015 19:59:26 +0200, "Malte Runz" 
>> >> <malte_runz@forgitit.dk>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >> >> You say you do by the way you reject God in your life. ...
>> >> >> >So, I didn't ask for the flames "literally". Moving on.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Yet that is your fate for living contrary to God.
>> >>
>> >> >And God decided that burning forever is punishment for "living 
>> >> >contrary
>> >> >to
>> >> >God". Being omnipotent he could have chosen a less sever punishment,
>> >> >right?
>> >>
>> >> God calls for the love and goodness to come out of your heart.  If it
>> >> can't,
>> >> your fated is determined,
>> >
>> >But why did he decide that the punishment should be eternal torture? I've
>> >asked many times but you never answer.
>>
>> I don't know.  "Eternal torture" is an atheist term.  I never heard God 
>> use it.
>
>What happens in Hell? You burn in the flames.
>For how long? For all eternity.
>Do the math.

You can be left behind for all eternity.

>> >> He's all powerful.  He well knows what is in your heart.
>> >And all he sees is evil, right.
>> No, ...
>Sure?

Your guess.

>> >I never chose eternal torture. The torture is the consequence of my 
>> >choices
>> >you say. You also say God made the rules. He decided what are good 
>> >choices
>> >and decided what the punishment for not following him should be.
>> Pretty much.
>Finally. Now, why is the punishment so harsh?

My guess is that the punishment fits the crime.

>> >> Are you trying to blame God for your bad actions?
>> >Which bad actions? You really need to answer that question.

>> I don't know. ...

>You keep telling me that I'll end up in Hell because of my "bad actions", 
>yet you don't know what they are. What does that make you?

No, I keep telling you that God said you won't be happy with your plight for
violating his commandments.

>> ...  Only you and God know of them.

>I don't believe in any gods. I have had plenty of sex out of wedlock. I have 
>taken mild drugs. I have shoplifted maybe ten times as a juvenile. I have 
>been drunk. I tell my share of white lies. Now you know my sins too. Would 
>you send me to Hell, based on what you know now, if you were in charge?

Did you go to confession?

>(snip)
>
>> >I know you believe that my choices are so bad, that poor God has no 
>> >choice
>> >but to leave me. That is not what I am asking about. So I try again: Do 
>> >you
>> >accept that it is not my wish burned forever?
>>
>> I don't know.
>
>I think you do, but you just don't want the thought manifest itself in your 
>mind.

I've told you that you will be judged by God for the things you did while in the
flesh that were in violation of his standards for living as he calls us.  Either
you get it or you don't.

>> >> ... Why are you so bad?

>> >Okay... I've had it with you calling me bad and evil without telling me
>> >exactly what is I do. I've asked you many times, but you have failed to
>> >reply. Last chance. Why do you say I am "so bad"?

>> I told you - that's the way you present yourself.
>Examples, please.

It's your examples.  If you think God is not happy with your for the way you
are, it's up to you to change your ways.  God knows you, I don't.

the dukester, American-American

*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****

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#499503

From"Malte Runz" <malte_runz@forgitit.dk>
Date2015-06-11 22:44 +0200
Message-ID<5579f314$0$23227$edfadb0f@dtext01.news.tele.dk>
In reply to#499471
"duke"  skrev i meddelelsen 
news:83pjnaheh2fkd1nda72rpnjs02b1pr65pn@4ax.com...
>
> On Wed, 10 Jun 2015 19:13:40 +0200, "Malte Runz" <malte_runz@forgitit.dk> 
> wrote:

(snip)

> >I don't believe in any gods. I have had plenty of sex out of wedlock. I 
> >have
> >taken mild drugs. I have shoplifted maybe ten times as a juvenile. I have
> >been drunk. I tell my share of white lies. Now you know my sins too. 
> >Would
> >you send me to Hell, based on what you know now, if you were in charge?
>
> Did you go to confession?

Of course not. I'm a total non-believer. I want to know if you would send me 
to Hell for the 'sins' I listed?

(snip)



-- 
Malte Runz 

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#499846

Fromduke <duckgumbo32@cox.net>
Date2015-06-13 14:15 -0500
Message-ID<u60pnaphkup4k6bsu52bgh08q3hkn7gvuc@4ax.com>
In reply to#499503
On Thu, 11 Jun 2015 22:44:08 +0200, "Malte Runz" <malte_runz@forgitit.dk> wrote:

>"duke"  skrev i meddelelsen 
>news:83pjnaheh2fkd1nda72rpnjs02b1pr65pn@4ax.com...
>>
>> On Wed, 10 Jun 2015 19:13:40 +0200, "Malte Runz" <malte_runz@forgitit.dk> 
>> wrote:
>
>(snip)
>
>> >I don't believe in any gods. I have had plenty of sex out of wedlock. I 
>> >have
>> >taken mild drugs. I have shoplifted maybe ten times as a juvenile. I have
>> >been drunk. I tell my share of white lies. Now you know my sins too. 
>> >Would
>> >you send me to Hell, based on what you know now, if you were in charge?
>>
>> Did you go to confession?
>
>Of course not. I'm a total non-believer. 

I fully understand.  That makes you an agnostic, an unbeliever.  You're not
atheist.  To be an atheist, you need to provide evidence that there is NO God,
and you can't.

>I want to know if you would send me 
>to Hell for the 'sins' I listed?

You snipped them.
>
>(snip)

the dukester, American-American

*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****

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#498545

FromJeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com>
Date2015-06-07 18:27 -0700
Message-ID<hlwdjsd2-B8CEA2.18271907062015@news.giganews.com>
In reply to#498451
In article <55747be9$0$23225$edfadb0f@dtext01.news.tele.dk>,
 "Malte Runz" <malte_runz@forgitit.dk> wrote:

> "duke"  skrev i meddelelsen 
> news:2486na5u5ehmgt40boevdp8s17567oidbr@4ax.com...
> >
> > On Sat, 6 Jun 2015 00:01:31 +0200, "Malte Runz" <malte_runz@forgitit.dk> 
> > wrote:
> >
> > >"duke"  skrev i meddelelsen
> > >news:3g14nalvj7vq6cv3pm5n1fqe50l315f08r@4ax.com...
> > >>
> > >> On Wed, 3 Jun 2015 23:31:45 +0200, "Malte Runz" 
> > >> <malte_runz@forgitit.dk>
> > >> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> >"duke"  skrev i meddelelsen
> > >> >news:aohumada32jvdb12snvfhtrp22pq9tnlib@4ax.com...
> > >> >>
> (snip)
> 
> > >> >> ... you are literally
> > >> >> asking for the fires of hell. ...
> > >>
> > >> >No, not literally. Understand once and for all that nobody wants to go 
> > >> >to
> > >> >Hell.
> > >>
> > >> Yes, you do. ...
> > >
> > >No, I don't. I repeat: I do not wish to go to Hell. You can quote me on
> > >that.
> >
> > You say you do by the way you reject God in your life. ...
> 
> So, I didn't ask for the flames "literally". Moving on.
> 
> 
> > ... You can quote God on
> > that.
> 
> On what? Show me words there are, beyond any reasonable doubt, God's.
> 
> >
> > >> ... You know it's listen or the flames.  You deny listening.
> >
> > >I don't believe in God, Hell, Satan or Jesus Christ.
> >
> > You're still being judged by God.  You don't get a vote.
> 
> See why I keep calling you a fascist. You're against democracy, you're 
> voluntarily kau tau'ing 

Ummm. kowtow

-- 

JD

Being open-minded is merely the willingness to consider
evidence, not the willingness to accept claims without any.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#498624

Fromduke <duckgumbo32@cox.net>
Date2015-06-08 06:58 -0500
Message-ID<5r0bnadbo68a7vbe5eak81901hc2k2298e@4ax.com>
In reply to#498545
On Sun, 07 Jun 2015 18:27:19 -0700, Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com>
wrote:

>In article <55747be9$0$23225$edfadb0f@dtext01.news.tele.dk>,
> "Malte Runz" <malte_runz@forgitit.dk> wrote:
>
>> "duke"  skrev i meddelelsen 
>> news:2486na5u5ehmgt40boevdp8s17567oidbr@4ax.com...
>> >
>> > On Sat, 6 Jun 2015 00:01:31 +0200, "Malte Runz" <malte_runz@forgitit.dk> 
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > >"duke"  skrev i meddelelsen
>> > >news:3g14nalvj7vq6cv3pm5n1fqe50l315f08r@4ax.com...
>> > >>
>> > >> On Wed, 3 Jun 2015 23:31:45 +0200, "Malte Runz" 
>> > >> <malte_runz@forgitit.dk>
>> > >> wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >> >"duke"  skrev i meddelelsen
>> > >> >news:aohumada32jvdb12snvfhtrp22pq9tnlib@4ax.com...
>> > >> >>
>> (snip)
>> 
>> > >> >> ... you are literally
>> > >> >> asking for the fires of hell. ...
>> > >>
>> > >> >No, not literally. Understand once and for all that nobody wants to go 
>> > >> >to
>> > >> >Hell.
>> > >>
>> > >> Yes, you do. ...
>> > >
>> > >No, I don't. I repeat: I do not wish to go to Hell. You can quote me on
>> > >that.
>> >
>> > You say you do by the way you reject God in your life. ...
>> 
>> So, I didn't ask for the flames "literally". Moving on.
>> 
>> 
>> > ... You can quote God on
>> > that.
>> 
>> On what? Show me words there are, beyond any reasonable doubt, God's.
>> 
>> >
>> > >> ... You know it's listen or the flames.  You deny listening.
>> >
>> > >I don't believe in God, Hell, Satan or Jesus Christ.
>> >
>> > You're still being judged by God.  You don't get a vote.
>> 
>> See why I keep calling you a fascist. You're against democracy, you're 
>> voluntarily kau tau'ing 
>
>Ummm. kowtow

Haahaahaa.

the dukester, American-American

*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****

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#498724

From"Malte Runz" <malte_runz@forgitit.dk>
Date2015-06-08 20:32 +0200
Message-ID<5575dfc9$0$23211$edfadb0f@dtext01.news.tele.dk>
In reply to#498624
> On Sun, 07 Jun 2015 18:27:19 -0700, Jeanne Douglas 
> <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >In article <55747be9$0$23225$edfadb0f@dtext01.news.tele.dk>,
> > "Malte Runz" <malte_runz@forgitit.dk> wrote:

(snip)

Piggybacking

> >> See why I keep calling you a fascist. You're against democracy, you're
> >> voluntarily kau tau'ing
> >
> >Ummm. kowtow

Well, well, well!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kowtow

"Kowtow, which is borrowed from kau tau in Cantonese ...".

I try to be original!



-- 
Malte Runz 

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#498782

FromJeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com>
Date2015-06-08 16:02 -0700
Message-ID<hlwdjsd2-286309.16021608062015@news.giganews.com>
In reply to#498724
In article <5575dfc9$0$23211$edfadb0f@dtext01.news.tele.dk>,
 "Malte Runz" <malte_runz@forgitit.dk> wrote:

> > On Sun, 07 Jun 2015 18:27:19 -0700, Jeanne Douglas 
> > <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >In article <55747be9$0$23225$edfadb0f@dtext01.news.tele.dk>,
> > > "Malte Runz" <malte_runz@forgitit.dk> wrote:
> 
> (snip)
> 
> Piggybacking
> 
> > >> See why I keep calling you a fascist. You're against democracy, you're
> > >> voluntarily kau tau'ing
> > >
> > >Ummm. kowtow
> 
> Well, well, well!
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kowtow
> 
> "Kowtow, which is borrowed from kau tau in Cantonese ...".
> 
> I try to be original!

Cool.

-- 

JD

Being open-minded is merely the willingness to consider
evidence, not the willingness to accept claims without any.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#497913

FromHVAC <Mr.HVAC@gmail.com>
Date2015-06-05 07:08 -0400
Message-ID<mkrvrl$1kj$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#497591
On 6/3/2015 2:31 PM, duke wrote:
>
> Have you ever asked yourself what you expect to happen when you tell God to "go
> to hell"?
>
>> This is where your diseased mind start to implode. Obviously
>> nobody wants to be torured forever in the flames.
>
> Then you better tell God he's the boss and not you.


So god is a spoiled child? I thought he was meant to be our father.
Could you imagine torturing your kids if they didn't say that YOU were 
the boss? I want you to think about that for a minute Duke.

Even tho I know you won't.



-- 
Cut off one head, two more shall take its place.
HAIL HYDRA!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZcG5UOY224

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#497923

Fromtalishi <talishi@example.net>
Date2015-06-05 06:08 -0700
Message-ID<mks70q04fi@news6.newsguy.com>
In reply to#497913
HVAC wrote:
> On 6/3/2015 2:31 PM, duke wrote:
>>
>> Have you ever asked yourself what you expect to happen when you tell
>> God to "go
>> to hell"?
>>
>>> This is where your diseased mind start to implode. Obviously
>>> nobody wants to be torured forever in the flames.
>>
>> Then you better tell God he's the boss and not you.
>
> Could you imagine torturing your kids if they didn't say that YOU were
> the boss? I want you to think about that for a minute Duke.

Duke is second only to the Bible as the greatest force for fostering 
unbelief here on alt.atheism.

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