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Groups > sci.physics > #509512 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2015-07-25 20:23 -0600 |
| Last post | 2015-08-03 09:34 -0700 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 93 — 17 participants |
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Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-07-25 20:23 -0600
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System kefischer <emoneyjoe@iglou.com> - 2015-07-26 15:40 -0400
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System wobbly <wobbly@dont-email.me> - 2015-07-28 22:14 +0000
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-07-26 23:20 +0000
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Lofty Goat <rlwatkins@gmail.com> - 2015-07-26 23:46 -0500
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Lofty Goat <rlwatkins@gmail.com> - 2015-07-26 23:44 -0500
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-07-27 22:52 +0000
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Jackpol11@hotmail.com - 2015-07-28 16:41 -0400
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-01 12:32 +0200
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Jackpol11@hotmail.com - 2015-08-02 15:51 -0400
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-08-02 20:29 +0000
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-03 01:12 +0200
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-08-03 00:07 +0000
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Jackpol11@hotmail.com - 2015-08-03 12:17 -0400
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2015-08-03 09:36 -0700
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-08-03 19:00 +0200
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Bohuš Matuška <bohu@paranetnet.net> - 2015-08-03 18:01 +0000
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-08-03 20:31 +0200
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Bohuš Matuška <bohu@paranetnet.net> - 2015-08-03 19:28 +0000
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-08-03 18:01 +0000
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Jackpol11@hotmail.com - 2015-08-03 14:52 -0400
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-03 23:00 +0200
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Jackpol11@hotmail.com - 2015-08-06 10:36 -0400
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-07 07:58 +0200
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-07 08:35 +0200
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Jackpol11@hotmail.com - 2015-08-07 10:13 -0400
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-08 00:26 +0200
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Jackpol11@hotmail.com - 2015-08-07 22:25 -0400
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-08 07:14 +0200
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-08-08 05:44 +0000
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Emmerich Schultheiß <emme@noemail.thx> - 2015-08-08 13:23 +0000
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Jackpol11@hotmail.com - 2015-08-08 10:16 -0400
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Jackpol11@hotmail.com - 2015-08-08 10:34 -0400
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-09 10:47 +0200
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-08-09 17:09 +0000
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Emmerich Schultheiß <emme@noemail.thx> - 2015-08-09 17:24 +0000
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-08-09 17:56 +0000
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-09 20:05 +0200
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-08-09 18:44 +0000
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Emmerich Schultheiß <emme@noemail.thx> - 2015-08-09 19:08 +0000
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-08-10 10:49 +0200
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-09 19:53 +0200
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-08-09 18:47 +0000
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Jackpol11@hotmail.com - 2015-08-09 17:52 -0400
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-10 00:07 +0200
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-08-09 22:33 +0000
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Felipe Delgado <fd@spreadspectrum.org> - 2015-08-09 22:55 +0000
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Felipe Delgado <fd@spreadspectrum.org> - 2015-08-09 22:58 +0000
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-08-10 10:54 +0200
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-08-10 17:38 +0000
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Felipe Delgado <fd@spreadspectrum.org> - 2015-08-10 18:07 +0000
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 01:11 +0200
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-08-10 23:28 +0000
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Jackpol11@hotmail.com - 2015-08-09 20:43 -0400
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-08-10 10:55 +0200
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-08-10 11:01 +0200
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Jackpol11@hotmail.com - 2015-08-10 09:32 -0400
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-08-10 17:42 +0000
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Jackpol11@hotmail.com - 2015-08-11 11:38 -0400
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 23:00 +0200
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-08-11 22:27 +0000
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Jackpol11@hotmail.com - 2015-08-11 22:12 -0400
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-08-12 23:32 -0500
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-13 07:32 +0200
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-13 07:30 -0500
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2015-08-13 05:50 -0700
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Felipe Delgado <fd@spreadspectrum.org> - 2015-08-13 13:11 +0000
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-13 08:23 -0500
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Felipe Delgado <fd@spreadspectrum.org> - 2015-08-13 13:28 +0000
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-08-13 15:20 +0200
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Felipe Delgado <fd@spreadspectrum.org> - 2015-08-13 13:22 +0000
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-13 07:24 -0500
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-08-13 15:10 +0200
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Felipe Delgado <fd@spreadspectrum.org> - 2015-08-13 13:15 +0000
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-08-13 15:21 +0200
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Jackpol11@hotmail.com - 2015-08-13 16:26 -0400
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-13 16:35 -0500
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Jackpol11@hotmail.com - 2015-08-13 21:52 -0400
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-14 07:42 -0500
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Jackpol11@hotmail.com - 2015-08-14 14:04 -0400
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System dsr@mail.lns.cornell.edu (Daniel S. Riley) - 2015-08-13 12:27 -0400
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Jackpol11@hotmail.com - 2015-08-11 22:20 -0400
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-09 11:39 +0200
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-09 12:42 +0200
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Jackpol11@hotmail.com - 2015-08-11 14:40 -0400
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 22:35 +0200
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Jackpol11@hotmail.com - 2015-08-12 21:56 -0400
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-08-03 17:57 +0000
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Yousuf Khan <bbbl67@spammenot.yahoo.com> - 2015-07-30 11:03 -0400
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System Yousuf Khan <bbbl67@spammenot.yahoo.com> - 2015-08-04 03:10 -0400
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-08-04 17:24 +0000
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System wobbly <wobbly@dont-email.me> - 2015-07-28 22:01 +0000
Re: Sensors in Motion Launches MEMS-Based Inertial Nav System "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2015-08-03 09:34 -0700
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| From | Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-10 10:49 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <mq9ogf$i5h$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #512170 |
On 08/09/2015 09:08 PM, Emmerich Schultheiß wrote: > Poutnik wrote: > > >>> and inexperienced. There are no velocity vectors present anywhere, but >>> acceleration vectors only. >> >> Coriolis force of vibrating structure gyroscopes depends on angular >> velocity. > > Angular velocity is not a velocity in the spirit of the above discussion. Angular velocity is not linear velocity and vice versa. above discussions was about gyroscopes, that are together with accelerators part of Inertial navigation systems. > > Learn this, I say it one time. Any motion unpacks into two kind, rotation Again, keep this mantra of Usenet Id chameleons fo yourself. > Any motion unpacks into two kind, rotation > and translation. Rotation is not directly a motion, but a change of an > angle. The velocity in this discussion here is about translation. Rotation is motion, but anguler, not linear one. Learn the basics of mechanics. > >> Yes, accelerometers do measure acceleration, >> but they are different devices, used for linear, not angular motion. > > There is no angular motion. You don't get it. I was all too indulgent by > saying that you are irrelevant and inexperienced. Larnt the basics of mechanics. -- Poutnik ( the Czech word for a wanderer )
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| From | Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-09 19:53 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <mq8403$bkg$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #512134 |
Dne 09/08/2015 v 19:09 jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com napsal(a): > > You appear clueless as to how inertial navigation systems work > mathematically. Wrong observation, as pointed below. > > The sensors, no matter what they are or how they are constructed or > what technology is used to build them, provide an acceleration vector. > > Cartesian coordinates have nothing to do with that. > > The acceleration vector is integrated into a velocity vector. > > Cartesian coordinates have nothing to do with that. > > The velocity vector is integrated into a position change vector. > > Cartesian coordinates have nothing to do with that. > > The position change vector is then added to the last known postion. > Exactly. But what you have missed is, this applies to accelerometers, not gyroscopes we were talking about. Vibration structure gyroscopes alias Coriolis gyroscopes, either macro size or MEMS size, detects angular speed, not angular acceleration via Coriolis force acting on vibrating structures, when they rotate. Good inertial navigation systems have both accelerometers and gyroscopes. 3 accelerometres for 3D linear acceleration 3 gyroscopes for 3D angular speed and optionally also 3 Hall sensors for magnetic field orientation. -- Poutnik ( the Czech word for a wanderer )
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| From | jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-09 18:47 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <6rjk9c-apo.ln1@mail.specsol.com> |
| In reply to | #512149 |
In sci.physics Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> wrote: > Dne 09/08/2015 v 19:09 jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com napsal(a): > >> >> You appear clueless as to how inertial navigation systems work >> mathematically. > > Wrong observation, as pointed below. >> >> The sensors, no matter what they are or how they are constructed or >> what technology is used to build them, provide an acceleration vector. >> >> Cartesian coordinates have nothing to do with that. >> >> The acceleration vector is integrated into a velocity vector. >> >> Cartesian coordinates have nothing to do with that. >> >> The velocity vector is integrated into a position change vector. >> >> Cartesian coordinates have nothing to do with that. >> >> The position change vector is then added to the last known postion. >> > > Exactly. > > But what you have missed is, > this applies to accelerometers, > not gyroscopes we were talking about. What you have missed is that a gyroscope is a gyroscope. What one can sense with a gyroscope depends on what sensors have been put on the gyroscope. What information can be derived from a sensor depends on how the sensor data is processed. <snip babble> -- Jim Pennino
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| From | Jackpol11@hotmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-09 17:52 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <kehfsah4rnit0u3al1hura5kkjpdd16cbh@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #512063 |
On Sun, 9 Aug 2015 10:47:32 +0200, Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> wrote: >Dne 08/08/2015 v 16:34 Jackpol11@hotmail.com napsal(a): >>> >>> You semm do not know how they work until now yet, >>> as they measure the cosines. > >> (Taki osel!) > > > >> One more shot: signals are sent to the windings at 400 cps. The X coil >> gets the X signal component and the Y coil gets the Y signal component >> on the rotor. >> The stator also has an X and Y coil. which if the angle is 0 on the >> shaft, then X' and Y' equal X and Y. >> Clearly if the shaft is rotated by angle a, the transmitted opponents >> rearrange themselves exactly as if you had performed a 3 x 3 rotation >> matrix on the input. you get correct values of X' and Y'. >> You failed to see that the resolvers take all the work out of it and >> the required matrix transformations are taken care of by simply >> installing resolvers. Nobody gives a damn about the cosines. >> John Polasek >> >You still do not get the way >how the cosines are involved. > >They are involved where positions are determined by angles, >and where Cartesian coordinates are not used, >but cylindrical or spherical ones. (Taki snop!) What we have in an inertial guidance system is the purest example of analog computation, a topic with which you are probably not experienced, because you keep groping for these 9 direction cosines that you can stuff into a digital computer. The pure analog is this: picture a chart with the X and Y axis drawn horizontally and vertically called X and Y and by pure analog, a resolver with 2 coils called X and Y orthogonally situated. When currents enter the X and Y input coils, they create a magnetic vector V between the 2 coils. By transformer action, the X' and Y' coils, in the secondary, resolve V into their own components in their coordinate set. Everything required by the stable platform is delivered nicely to each of the axes. No one has to lift a finger-the tricky job is done and they let God do it. The signals that are resolved are error signals generated by the gyroscopes on the stable platform, because as the plane maneuvers, the gimbal axes have to turn against friction tending to tip the platform. The correct torques are automatically applied through the resolver chain to counter this. Consequently we have the ideal situation of an inertial platform Fixed in inertial space from which we can integrate on the East-West the north-south accelerometers, with no problem. The vertical axis of the stable platform needs to shift to keep a local vertical, which changes as we go, and therefore the gyros are torqued by current proportional to the integrated velocity = V/R. The result is as the plane goes along, the earth vector is changing and the platform keeps up. John Polasek
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| From | Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-10 00:07 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <mq8irl$868$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #512217 |
Dne 09/08/2015 v 23:52 Jackpol11@hotmail.com napsal(a): > What we have in an inertial guidance system is the purest example of > analog computation, a topic with which you are probably not > experienced, because you keep groping for these 9 direction cosines > that you can stuff into a digital computer. Why do you think trigonometric functions are not involved in analogue systems ? They are, and even better than in digital ones, as they are analogue continuous functions. You would know it, if you were more experienced in analogue systems... :-P -- Poutnik ( the Czech word for a wanderer )
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| From | jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-09 22:33 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <921l9c-tnb.ln1@mail.specsol.com> |
| In reply to | #512221 |
In sci.physics Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> wrote: > Dne 09/08/2015 v 23:52 Jackpol11@hotmail.com napsal(a): > >> What we have in an inertial guidance system is the purest example of >> analog computation, a topic with which you are probably not >> experienced, because you keep groping for these 9 direction cosines >> that you can stuff into a digital computer. > > Why do you think trigonometric functions > are not involved in analogue systems ? > They are, and even better than in digital ones, > as they are analogue continuous functions. Utter, babbling, ignorant, nonsense. No analog system has infinite resolution. The "better" depends on the resolution and accuracy of the computational elements. > You would know it, if you were more experienced > in analogue systems... :-P Like you have ever seen an analog computer. -- Jim Pennino
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| From | Felipe Delgado <fd@spreadspectrum.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-09 22:55 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <mq8lp6$fal$1@speranza.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #512231 |
jimp wrote: > In sci.physics Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> wrote: >> Dne 09/08/2015 v 23:52 Jackpol11@hotmail.com napsal(a): >> >>> What we have in an inertial guidance system is the purest example of >>> analog computation, a topic with which you are probably not >>> experienced, because you keep groping for these 9 direction cosines >>> that you can stuff into a digital computer. >> >> Why do you think trigonometric functions are not involved in analogue >> systems ? >> They are, and even better than in digital ones, >> as they are analogue continuous functions. > > Utter, babbling, ignorant, nonsense. Agree. > No analog system has infinite resolution. All sensors exploit a form of analogue physical/chemical effects or interaction. The DSP part may or may not be integrated, nevertheless present along the ulterior stages.
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| From | Felipe Delgado <fd@spreadspectrum.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-09 22:58 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <mq8lvd$fgg$1@speranza.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #512221 |
> Dne 09/08/2015 v 23:52 Jackpol11@hotmail.com napsal(a): > >> What we have in an inertial guidance system is the purest example of >> analog computation, a topic with which you are probably not >> experienced, >> because you keep groping for these 9 direction cosines that you can >> stuff into a digital computer. Actually cosines are not used, but arctangent > Why do you think trigonometric functions are not involved in analogue > systems ? They are, and even better than in digital ones, > as they are analogue continuous functions. > > You would know it, if you were more experienced in analogue systems... > :-P Me neither. How would you do calculations in "analogue systems"? What other systems out there?
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| From | Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-10 10:54 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <mq9ooo$j14$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #512241 |
On 08/10/2015 12:58 AM, Felipe Delgado wrote: >> Dne 09/08/2015 v 23:52 Jackpol11@hotmail.com napsal(a): >> > >> Why do you think trigonometric functions are not involved in analogue >> systems ? They are, and even better than in digital ones, >> as they are analogue continuous functions. >> >> You would know it, if you were more experienced in analogue systems... >> :-P > > Me neither. How would you do calculations in "analogue systems"? What > other systems out there? > Who spoke about calculations ? they are not needed. Do you really think that e.g. the radio receiver antenne calculates anything regarding its angle wrt to radio EM wave propagation ? -- Poutnik ( the Czech word for a wanderer )
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| From | jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-10 17:38 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <u44n9c-u0k.ln1@mail.specsol.com> |
| In reply to | #512355 |
In sci.physics Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> wrote: > On 08/10/2015 12:58 AM, Felipe Delgado wrote: >>> Dne 09/08/2015 v 23:52 Jackpol11@hotmail.com napsal(a): >>> >> >>> Why do you think trigonometric functions are not involved in analogue >>> systems ? They are, and even better than in digital ones, >>> as they are analogue continuous functions. >>> >>> You would know it, if you were more experienced in analogue systems... >>> :-P >> >> Me neither. How would you do calculations in "analogue systems"? What >> other systems out there? >> > > Who spoke about calculations ? they are not needed. If you are talking about inertial navigation systems, you certainly need to do a lot of calculations somehow. > Do you really think that > e.g. the radio receiver antenne calculates anything > regarding its angle wrt to radio EM wave propagation ? Irrelevant. -- Jim Pennino
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| From | Felipe Delgado <fd@spreadspectrum.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-10 18:07 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <mqap9c$54o$1@speranza.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #512441 |
jimp wrote: >>>> You would know it, if you were more experienced in analogue >>>> systems... >>>> :-P >>> >>> Me neither. How would you do calculations in "analogue systems"? What >>> other systems out there? >>> >>> >> Who spoke about calculations ? they are not needed. > > If you are talking about inertial navigation systems, you certainly need > to do a lot of calculations somehow. He won't need, he is an impertinent know-nothing idiot. A cretin.
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| From | Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-11 01:11 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <mqbav5$oa6$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #512450 |
Dne 10/08/2015 v 20:07 Felipe Delgado napsal(a): > jimp wrote: > >>>>> You would know it, if you were more experienced in analogue >>>>> systems... >>>>> :-P >>>> >>>> Me neither. How would you do calculations in "analogue systems"? What >>>> other systems out there? >>>> >>> Who spoke about calculations ? they are not needed. >> >> If you are talking about inertial navigation systems, you certainly need >> to do a lot of calculations somehow. > > He won't need, he is an impertinent know-nothing idiot. A cretin. > Intelligence of people is best observed in way how they speak about others. BTW, there was an era of analogue computers. -- Poutnik ( the Czech word for a wanderer )
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| From | jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-10 23:28 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <plon9c-mdm.ln1@mail.specsol.com> |
| In reply to | #512580 |
In sci.physics Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> wrote: > Dne 10/08/2015 v 20:07 Felipe Delgado napsal(a): >> jimp wrote: >> >>>>>> You would know it, if you were more experienced in analogue >>>>>> systems... >>>>>> :-P >>>>> >>>>> Me neither. How would you do calculations in "analogue systems"? What >>>>> other systems out there? >>>>> >>>> Who spoke about calculations ? they are not needed. >>> >>> If you are talking about inertial navigation systems, you certainly need >>> to do a lot of calculations somehow. >> >> He won't need, he is an impertinent know-nothing idiot. A cretin. >> > > Intelligence of people is best observed in way > how they speak about others. > > BTW, there was an era of analogue computers. No shit; that era being roughly 100 BC until the end of the 20th Century. Did you just learn that from a web search? Would it surprise you to learn analog computers are still used in some applications? -- Jim Pennino
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| From | Jackpol11@hotmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-09 20:43 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <bpsfsat6604dduda952ug3b228m03k61m4@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #512221 |
On Mon, 10 Aug 2015 00:07:19 +0200, Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> wrote: >Dne 09/08/2015 v 23:52 Jackpol11@hotmail.com napsal(a): > >> What we have in an inertial guidance system is the purest example of >> analog computation, a topic with which you are probably not >> experienced, because you keep groping for these 9 direction cosines >> that you can stuff into a digital computer. > >Why do you think trigonometric functions >are not involved in analogue systems ? >They are, and even better than in digital ones, >as they are analogue continuous functions. > >You would know it, if you were more experienced >in analogue systems... :-P I think my work here is done. John Polasek
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| From | Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-10 10:55 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <mq9orp$j14$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #512286 |
On 08/10/2015 02:43 AM, Jackpol11@hotmail.com wrote: >> >> Why do you think trigonometric functions >> are not involved in analogue systems ? >> They are, and even better than in digital ones, >> as they are analogue continuous functions. >> >> You would know it, if you were more experienced >> in analogue systems... :-P > I think my work here is done. > John Polasek Here maybe, but add the reference for your wikipedia article modification. -- Poutnik ( the Czech word for a wanderer )
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| From | Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-10 11:01 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <mq9p6s$kl0$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #512286 |
On 08/10/2015 02:43 AM, Jackpol11@hotmail.com wrote: >> >> Why do you think trigonometric functions >> are not involved in analogue systems ? >> They are, and even better than in digital ones, >> as they are analogue continuous functions. >> > I think my work here is done. > John Polasek I hope not. Do not get me wrong, John ( you would be Jan Polášek here ). I fully respect your big experience with gyroscope systems. I just wanted to point out that not all is like them today, in both high and low ends..... -- Poutnik ( the Czech word for a wanderer )
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| From | Jackpol11@hotmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-10 09:32 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <3u9hsa94c0m1gmq4git934d559kp0v5638@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #512357 |
On Mon, 10 Aug 2015 11:01:50 +0200, Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> wrote: >On 08/10/2015 02:43 AM, Jackpol11@hotmail.com wrote: >>> >>> Why do you think trigonometric functions >>> are not involved in analogue systems ? >>> They are, and even better than in digital ones, >>> as they are analogue continuous functions. >>> > >> I think my work here is done. >> John Polasek > >I hope not. > >Do not get me wrong, John ( you would be Jan Polášek here ). > >I fully respect your big experience with gyroscope systems. > >I just wanted to point out that not all >is like them today, in both high and low ends..... To je leps^i, synko! John Polasek
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| From | jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-10 17:42 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <gc4n9c-u0k.ln1@mail.specsol.com> |
| In reply to | #512357 |
In sci.physics Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> wrote: > On 08/10/2015 02:43 AM, Jackpol11@hotmail.com wrote: >>> >>> Why do you think trigonometric functions >>> are not involved in analogue systems ? >>> They are, and even better than in digital ones, >>> as they are analogue continuous functions. >>> > >> I think my work here is done. >> John Polasek > > I hope not. > > Do not get me wrong, John ( you would be Jan Polášek here ). > > I fully respect your big experience with gyroscope systems. > > I just wanted to point out that not all > is like them today, in both high and low ends..... The underlying physics and mathematics is independant of the hardware implementation. -- Jim Pennino
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| From | Jackpol11@hotmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-11 11:38 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <dj5ksap8amodp05bens76j9bb3so90nfbl@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #512357 |
On Mon, 10 Aug 2015 11:01:50 +0200, Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> wrote: >On 08/10/2015 02:43 AM, Jackpol11@hotmail.com wrote: >>> >>> Why do you think trigonometric functions >>> are not involved in analogue systems ? >>> They are, and even better than in digital ones, >>> as they are analogue continuous functions. >>> > >> I think my work here is done. >> John Polasek > >I hope not. > >Do not get me wrong, John ( you would be Jan Polášek here ). > >I fully respect your big experience with gyroscope systems. > >I just wanted to point out that not all >is like them today, in both high and low ends..... That reminds me of the time (1972?) I was hired by a company to digitize their analog aircraft something simulator. There was a very large schematic with op-amp integrators (they may have used homemade op-amps). There were about a half-dozen resolvers and the guy explained to me they didn't know what to do with them. So I figured out the proper matrix equations for each resolver that could then be used in the digital version. But, notice, the thing was working before I wrote any equations. Just put a resolver wherever there's an axle that turns and the job is done. The originating resolver forms a magnetic vector V, from the inputs X and Y (like you would do with a straight edge on paper) and that same magnetic V is properly dissected by the secondary coils into the 2 true geometric components in the next coordinates set offset by that angle. (redundancy noted) John Polasek
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| From | Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-11 23:00 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <mqdnmp$9ut$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #512715 |
Dne 11/08/2015 v 17:38 Jackpol11@hotmail.com napsal(a): > That reminds me of the time (1972?) I was hired by a company to > digitize their analog aircraft something simulator. There was a very > large schematic with op-amp integrators (they may have used homemade > op-amps). There were about a half-dozen resolvers and the guy > explained to me they didn't know what to do with them. > So I figured out the proper matrix equations for each resolver that > could then be used in the digital version. > But, notice, the thing was working before I wrote any equations. Just > put a resolver wherever there's an axle that turns and the job is > done. > The originating resolver forms a magnetic vector V, from the inputs X > and Y (like you would do with a straight edge on paper) and that same > magnetic V is properly dissected by the secondary coils into the 2 > true geometric components in the next coordinates set offset by that > angle. > (redundancy noted) > John Polasek > I was 7 years old than.. http://www.ibiblio.org/kuphaldt/electricCircuits/AC/02253.png What I previously wanted to point out was, that resolver is an elementary segment of eventually more complex analog computer. It produces at stator coils voltage proportional to sinus, resp. cosinus of the angle, that can be processed by other analog modules. I think there could be previously misunderstanding that I was going to work with cosines in digital computer. I remember early 80s when I was on technical high school and 2 of our enthusiastic professors presented to our class a working analog computer: 2 big boxes, full of connectors and cables, with few osciloscope or TV screens. Wit op amps, some basic operations can be easily achieved. -- Poutnik ( the Czech word for a wanderer )
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