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Do we have evidence that gravitation waves are faster than light ??

Started by	poraty149@gmail.com
First post	2018-08-17 02:50 -0700
Last post	2018-08-17 13:11 -0400
Articles	20 on this page of 46 — 10 participants

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#698842 — Do we have evidence that gravitation waves are faster than light ??

From	poraty149@gmail.com
Date	2018-08-17 02:50 -0700
Subject	Do we have evidence that gravitation waves are faster than light ??
Message-ID	<36e2876b-d59d-4799-a861-4571c8b61ab4@googlegroups.com>

Do we have evidence - that gravitational waves
are faster than light ??

TIA
Y.Porat
=====================

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#698843 — Re: Do we have evidence that gravitation waves are faster than light ??

From	Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address>
Date	2018-08-17 19:59 +1000
Subject	Re: Do we have evidence that gravitation waves are faster than light ??
Message-ID	<ftnkl0Frl7bU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#698842

On 17/08/2018 7:50 PM, poraty149@gmail.com wrote:
> Do we have evidence - that gravitational waves
> are faster than light ??
> 
> TIA
> Y.Porat
> =====================
> 

No.

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#698847 — Re: Do we have evidence that gravitation waves are faster than light ??

From	benj <benj.fake@gmail.com>
Date	2018-08-17 06:42 -0400
Subject	Re: Do we have evidence that gravitation waves are faster than light ??
Message-ID	<pl68r7$1slu$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to	#698843

On 8/17/2018 5:59 AM, Sylvia Else wrote:
> On 17/08/2018 7:50 PM, poraty149@gmail.com wrote:
>> Do we have evidence - that gravitational waves
>> are faster than light ??
>>
>> TIA
>> Y.Porat
>> =====================
>>
> 
> No.

Proof?

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#698848 — Re: Do we have evidence that gravitation waves are faster than light ??

From	Libor Striz <poutnik4REMOVEnntp@CAPITALSgmail.com>
Date	2018-08-17 13:23 +0200
Subject	Re: Do we have evidence that gravitation waves are faster than light ??
Message-ID	<pl6b81$blq$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to	#698847

benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> Wrote in message:
> On 8/17/2018 5:59 AM, Sylvia Else wrote:
>> On 17/08/2018 7:50 PM, poraty149@gmail.com wrote:
>>> Do we have evidence - that gravitational waves
>>> are faster than light ??
>>>
>>> TIA
>>> Y.Porat
>>> =====================
>>>
>> 
>> No.
> 
> Proof?
> 

There are no proofs in science,  only in mathematics.

There is no experimental evidence of what is not observed, only of
 what is observed. Like the textbook example, there is no evidence
 of nonexistence of a unicorn, only lot of evidence of observing
 no unicorn.

Btw,  the measurement is not advanced enough to measure the speed,
 we would need to know the source position a priori.

Currently, the position is determined a posteriori, by using the
 supposed wave speed.

-- 
Libor Striz aka Poutnik ( a pilgrim/wanderer/wayfarer)

"Humour is the only effective weapon against stupidity."
Miloš Forman

----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

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#698926 — Re: Do we have evidence that gravitation waves are faster than light ??

From	Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com>
Date	2018-08-17 10:54 -0700
Subject	Re: Do we have evidence that gravitation waves are faster than light ??
Message-ID	<0a1c1345-804b-497a-8b37-a8c18fbcaae0@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#698847

On Friday, August 17, 2018 at 6:42:51 AM UTC-4, benj wrote:
> On 8/17/2018 5:59 AM, Sylvia Else wrote:
> > On 17/08/2018 7:50 PM, poraty149@gmail.com wrote:
> >> Do we have evidence - that gravitational waves
> >> are faster than light ??
> >>
> >> TIA
> >> Y.Porat
> >> =====================
> >>
> > 
> > No.
> 
> Proof?

It's a straightforward question and straightforward
 answer, benj. But I'll spell it out for you:

We (humans on earth) as of this date/time
have NO evidence that gravitational waves
are faster than light.

A simple statement of fact. the fact may change
in the future, but that would not change the
current state of knowledge.

Ed

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#699004 — Re: Do we have evidence that gravitation waves are faster than light ??

From	poraty149@gmail.com
Date	2018-08-17 17:06 -0700
Subject	Re: Do we have evidence that gravitation waves are faster than light ??
Message-ID	<e58fddff-7776-4dc1-986b-7e40b4b883f5@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#698926

On Friday, August 17, 2018 at 8:54:29 PM UTC+3, Edward Prochak wrote:
> On Friday, August 17, 2018 at 6:42:51 AM UTC-4, benj wrote:
> > On 8/17/2018 5:59 AM, Sylvia Else wrote:
> > > On 17/08/2018 7:50 PM, poraty149@gmail.com wrote:
> > >> Do we have evidence - that gravitational waves
> > >> are faster than light ??
> > >>
> > >> TIA
> > >> Y.Porat
> > >> =====================
> > >>
> > > 
> > > No.
> > 
> > Proof?
> 
> It's a straightforward question and straightforward
>  answer, benj. But I'll spell it out for you:
> 
> We (humans on earth) as of this date/time
> have NO evidence that gravitational waves
> are faster than light.
> 
> A simple statement of fact. the fact may change
> in the future, but that would not change the
> current state of knowledge.
> 
> Ed
=======================
please say it clrar
does' curved space'
can  do anything ???
2
is** space*as for itself --urved ??
TIA
Y.Porat
====================

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#699118 — Re: Do we have evidence that gravitation waves are faster than light ??

From	Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com>
Date	2018-08-18 15:50 -0700
Subject	Re: Do we have evidence that gravitation waves are faster than light ??
Message-ID	<e8480f83-1295-467e-be94-9a7fb3777fd8@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#699004

On Friday, August 17, 2018 at 8:06:17 PM UTC-4, pora...@gmail.com wrote:
[]
> please say it clrar
> does' curved space'
> can  do anything ???
> 2
> is** space*as for itself --urved ??
> TIA
> Y.Porat
> ====================

I think the LIGO measurements are clear proof of that.
'nuf said.
 Ed

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#699139 — Re: Do we have evidence that gravitation waves are faster than light ??

From	poraty149@gmail.com
Date	2018-08-18 18:07 -0700
Subject	Re: Do we have evidence that gravitation waves are faster than light ??
Message-ID	<1054a7fd-406d-4da9-a539-1d7e4c990914@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#699118

On Sunday, August 19, 2018 at 1:50:15 AM UTC+3, Edward Prochak wrote:
> On Friday, August 17, 2018 at 8:06:17 PM UTC-4, pora...@gmail.com wrote:
> []
> > please say it clrar
> > does' curved space'
> > can  do anything ???
> > 2
> > is** space*as for itself --urved ??
> > TIA
> > Y.Porat
> > ====================
> 
> I think the LIGO measurements are clear proof of that.
> 'nuf said.
>  Ed
====================================
sorry not clear for me what  lingo ...
2
and not  what is  'nuf ??
TIA
Y.P
================

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#699294 — Re: Do we have evidence that gravitation waves are faster than light ??

From	Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com>
Date	2018-08-19 20:53 -0700
Subject	Re: Do we have evidence that gravitation waves are faster than light ??
Message-ID	<ab7ee894-ed9f-429f-9f86-be6b9eb6fd8d@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#699139

On Saturday, August 18, 2018 at 9:07:47 PM UTC-4, pora...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, August 19, 2018 at 1:50:15 AM UTC+3, Edward Prochak wrote:
> > On Friday, August 17, 2018 at 8:06:17 PM UTC-4, pora...@gmail.com wrote:
> > []
> > > please say it clrar
> > > does' curved space'
> > > can  do anything ???
> > > 2
> > > is** space*as for itself --urved ??
> > > TIA
> > > Y.Porat
> > > ====================
> > 
> > I think the LIGO measurements are clear proof of that.
> > 'nuf said.
> >  Ed
> ====================================
> sorry not clear for me what  lingo ...
> 2
> and not  what is  'nuf ??
> TIA
> Y.P
> ================

 L I G O
Laser Interferometer Gravitational-Wave Observatory (LIGO) 
Do you read at least the science news?
Or are you playing dumb so you can get your post count up?
ed

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#698849 — Re: Do we have evidence that gravitation waves are faster than light ??

From	poraty149@gmail.com
Date	2018-08-17 04:25 -0700
Subject	Re: Do we have evidence that gravitation waves are faster than light ??
Message-ID	<33267814-ce85-4272-9cdd-7bfefa7e4e13@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#698843

On Friday, August 17, 2018 at 1:00:05 PM UTC+3, Sylvia Else wrote:
> On 17/08/2018 7:50 PM, poraty149@gmail.com wrote:
> > Do we have evidence - that gravitational waves
> > are faster than light ??
> > 
> > TIA
> > Y.Porat
> > =====================
> > 
> 
> No.
====

do you say that from memory ?
2
another way to ask 

are there proves that
gravitation  waves move exactly
with  the velocity of c ?? 
====
TIA
Y.P
================

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#698851 — Re: Do we have evidence that gravitation waves are faster than light ??

From	Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date	2018-08-17 11:35 +0000
Subject	Re: Do we have evidence that gravitation waves are faster than light ??
Message-ID	<pl6bts$2j9$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to	#698849

<poraty149@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Friday, August 17, 2018 at 1:00:05 PM UTC+3, Sylvia Else wrote:
>> On 17/08/2018 7:50 PM, poraty149@gmail.com wrote:
>>> Do we have evidence - that gravitational waves
>>> are faster than light ??
>>> 
>>> TIA
>>> Y.Porat
>>> =====================
>>> 
>> 
>> No.
> ====
> 
> do you say that from memory ?
> 2
> another way to ask 
> 
> are there proves that
> gravitation  waves move exactly
> with  the velocity of c ?? 

No. Once again, proofs do not come in science. 

> ====
> TIA
> Y.P
> ================
> 
> 



-- 
Odd Bodkin — Maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#698852 — Re: Do we have evidence that gravitation waves are faster than light ??

From	poraty149@gmail.com
Date	2018-08-17 04:40 -0700
Subject	Re: Do we have evidence that gravitation waves are faster than light ??
Message-ID	<56aafcf4-2b07-44fa-949b-955d6c2f3d2f@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#698851

On Friday, August 17, 2018 at 2:35:28 PM UTC+3, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> <poraty149@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Friday, August 17, 2018 at 1:00:05 PM UTC+3, Sylvia Else wrote:
> >> On 17/08/2018 7:50 PM, poraty149@gmail.com wrote:
> >>> Do we have evidence - that gravitational waves
> >>> are faster than light ??
> >>> 
> >>> TIA
> >>> Y.Porat
> >>> =====================
> >>> 
> >> 
> >> No.
> > ====
> > 
> > do you say that from memory ?
> > 2
> > another way to ask 
> > 
> > are there proves that
> > gravitation  waves move exactly
> > with  the velocity of c ?? 
> 
> No. Once again, proofs do not come in science. 
> 
> > ====
> > TIA
> > Y.P
> > ================
 
 ok
let my ask it a the opposite  way :

 do we have evidence that
gravitation  waves
move
slower than c ?
===
TIA
Y.P
=======================

 
> 
> -- 
> Odd Bodkin — Maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#698857 — Re: Do we have evidence that gravitation waves are faster than light ??

From	Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date	2018-08-17 13:22 +0000
Subject	Re: Do we have evidence that gravitation waves are faster than light ??
Message-ID	<pl6i66$dl5$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to	#698852

<poraty149@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Friday, August 17, 2018 at 2:35:28 PM UTC+3, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>> <poraty149@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Friday, August 17, 2018 at 1:00:05 PM UTC+3, Sylvia Else wrote:
>>>> On 17/08/2018 7:50 PM, poraty149@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>> Do we have evidence - that gravitational waves
>>>>> are faster than light ??
>>>>> 
>>>>> TIA
>>>>> Y.Porat
>>>>> ====================> >>> 
>>>> 
>>>> No.
>>> ===> > 
>>> do you say that from memory ?
>>> 2
>>> another way to ask 
>>> 
>>> are there proves that
>>> gravitation  waves move exactly
>>> with  the velocity of c ?? 
>> 
>> No. Once again, proofs do not come in science. 
>> 
>>> ===> > TIA
>>> Y.P
>>> =============== 
>  ok
> let my ask it a the opposite  way :
> 
>  do we have evidence that
> gravitation  waves
> move
> slower than c ?

No. 

We do have clear evidence that gravity waves arrive here at the same time
as optical signals from the same astronomical event. 

> ==TIA
> Y.P
> ======================
>  
>> 
>> -- 
>> Odd Bodkin  Maker of fine toys, tools, tables
> 
> 



-- 
Odd Bodkin — Maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#698861 — Re: Do we have evidence that gravitation waves are faster than light ??

From	poraty149@gmail.com
Date	2018-08-17 07:39 -0700
Subject	Re: Do we have evidence that gravitation waves are faster than light ??
Message-ID	<e3e4b5f7-05e9-4e4c-8765-72c0ca03f6fb@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#698857

On Friday, August 17, 2018 at 4:22:20 PM UTC+3, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> <poraty149@gmail.com> wrote: >> On Friday, August 17, 2018 at 1:00:05 PM UTC+3, Sylvia Else wrote:
> >>>> On 17/08/2018 7:50 PM, poraty149@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>>> Do we have evidence - that gravitational waves
> >>>>> are faster than light ??
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> TIA
> >>>>> Y.Porat
> >>>>> ====================> >>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> No.
> >>> ===> > 
> >>> do you say that from memory ?
> >>> 2
> >>> another way to ask 
> >>> 
> >>> are there proves that
> >>> gravitation  waves move exactly
> >>> with  the velocity of c ?? 
> >> 
> >> No. Once again, proofs do not come in science. 
> >> 
> >>> ===> > TIA
> >>> Y.P
> >>> =============== 
> >  ok
> > let my ask it a the opposite  way :
> > 
> >  do we have evidence that
> > gravitation  waves
> > move
> > slower than c ?
> 
> No. 
> 
> We do have clear evidence that gravity waves arrive here at the same time
> as optical signals from the same astronomical event. 

==========================
thank you OD  even that is an information !!

while  investigating a new or may be(unfortunately 
not new  issue
-any piece  of information
might  be important ~
until this point
we can reffer   that
GRAVITATION waves   AND LIGHT-

=ARE DIFFERENT ENTITIES..
may be even 
completely different entities 
  and that for Itself is interesting !

TIA
Y.P
====================

> 
> 
> >> 
> >> -- 
> >> Odd Bodkin   Maker of fine toys, tools, tables
> > 
> --

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#698864 — Re: Do we have evidence that gravitation waves are faster than light ??

From	poraty149@gmail.com
Date	2018-08-17 07:49 -0700
Subject	Re: Do we have evidence that gravitation waves are faster than light ??
Message-ID	<7a6a6ae8-e95b-43f4-a349-3bdc8af581bc@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#698861

On Friday, August 17, 2018 at 5:39:35 PM UTC+3, pora...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, August 17, 2018 at 4:22:20 PM UTC+3, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> > <poraty149@gmail.com> wrote: >> On Friday, August 17, 2018 at 1:00:05 PM UTC+3, Sylvia Else wrote:
> > >>>> On 17/08/2018 7:50 PM, poraty149@gmail.com wrote:
> > >>>>> Do we have evidence - that gravitational waves
> > >>>>> are faster than light ??
> > >>>>> 
> > >>>>> TIA
> > >>>>> Y.Porat
> > >>>>> ====================> >>> 
> > >>>> 
> > >>>> No.
> > >>> ===> > 
> > >>> do you say that from memory ?
> > >>> 2
> > >>> another way to ask 
> > >>> 
> > >>> are there proves that
> > >>> gravitation  waves move exactly
> > >>> with  the velocity of c ?? 
> > >> 
> > >> No. Once again, proofs do not come in science. 
> > >> 
> > >>> ===> > TIA
> > >>> Y.P
> > >>> =============== 
> > >  ok
> > > let my ask it a the opposite  way :
> > > 
> > >  do we have evidence that
> > > gravitation  waves
> > > move
> > > slower than c ?
> > 
> > No. 
> > 
> > We do have clear evidence that gravity waves arrive here at the same time
> > as optical signals from the same astronomical event. 
> 
> ==========================
> thank you OD  even that is an information !!
> 
> while  investigating a new or may be(unfortunately 
> not new  issue
> -any piece  of information
> might  be important ~
> until this point
> we can reffer   that
> GRAVITATION waves   AND LIGHT-
> 
> =ARE DIFFERENT ENTITIES..
> may be even 
> completely different entities 
>   and that for Itself is interesting !
> 
> TIA
> Y.P
> ====================
now
can we guess
that gravity waves 
ARE RECYCLED ??!!
 or else 
the orriginal   mass that is emitting  them
 might be  depleted ???!!

TIA
Y.POrat
======================

> 
> 
> > > 
> > --

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#699172 — Re: Do we have evidence that gravitation waves are faster than light ??

From	Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address>
Date	2018-08-19 16:10 +1000
Subject	Re: Do we have evidence that gravitation waves are faster than light ??
Message-ID	<ftsfu7Fd9jU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#698864

On 18/08/2018 12:49 AM, poraty149@gmail.com wrote:

>> ====================
> now
> can we guess
> that gravity waves
> ARE RECYCLED ??!!
>   or else
> the orriginal   mass that is emitting  them
>   might be  depleted ???!!
> 

No, the energy for the waves does not come from the mass itself, and is 
no depleting it.

Consider for example, two neutron stars in orbit around each other. The 
energy for the waves they emit comes from their kinetic and potential 
energy, and the two neutron stars get closer and closer are a result 
(eventually colliding).

Sylvia.

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#698883 — Re: Do we have evidence that gravitation waves are faster than light ??

From	Libor Striz <poutnik4REMOVEnntp@CAPITALSgmail.com>
Date	2018-08-17 18:31 +0200
Subject	Re: Do we have evidence that gravitation waves are faster than light ??
Message-ID	<pl6t9d$ssm$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to	#698861

poraty149@gmail.com Wrote in message:

> 
> while  investigating a new or may be(unfortunately 
> not new  issue
> -any piece  of information
> might  be important ~
> until this point
> we can reffer   that
> GRAVITATION waves   AND LIGHT-
> 
> =ARE DIFFERENT ENTITIES..
> may be even 
> completely different entities 
>   and that for Itself is interesting !
> 

Something completely different has nothing in common, otherwise it
 is not completely different.

As light has wave-like behaviour, they have something in common
and therefore they are not completely different.



-- 
Libor Striz aka Poutnik ( a pilgrim/wanderer/wayfarer)

"Humour is the only effective weapon against stupidity."
Miloš Forman


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

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#698888 — Re: Do we have evidence that gravitation waves are faster than light ??

From	poraty149@gmail.com
Date	2018-08-17 09:46 -0700
Subject	Re: Do we have evidence that gravitation waves are faster than light ??
Message-ID	<32fa81d0-3209-43d2-b152-515c3c09bcdc@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#698883

On Friday, August 17, 2018 at 7:31:45 PM UTC+3, Libor Striz wrote:
> poraty149@gmail.com Wrote in message:
> 
> > 
> > while  investigating a new or may be(unfortunately 
> > not new  issue
> > -any piece  of information
> > might  be important ~
> > until this point
> > we can reffer   that
> > GRAVITATION waves   AND LIGHT-
> > 
> > =ARE DIFFERENT ENTITIES..
> > may be even 
> > completely different entities 
> >   and that for Itself is interesting !
> > 
> 
> Something completely different has nothing in common, otherwise it
>  is not completely different.
> 
> As light has wave-like behaviour, they have something in common
> and therefore they are not completely different.
>=============================
and how about that they have something in common
and other things -
  not   in  common at  all ??
 ???
=====
Y.P
========================

 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>

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#698938 — Re: Do we have evidence that gravitation waves are faster than light ??

From	Libor Striz <poutnik4REMOVEnntp@CAPITALSgmail.com>
Date	2018-08-17 20:12 +0200
Subject	Re: Do we have evidence that gravitation waves are faster than light ??
Message-ID	<pl736f$2b1$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to	#698888

poraty149@gmail.com Wrote in message:
> On Friday, August 17, 2018 at 7:31:45 PM UTC+3, Libor Striz wrote:
>> poraty149@gmail.com Wrote in message:
>> 
>> > 
>> > while  investigating a new or may be(unfortunately 
>> > not new  issue
>> > -any piece  of information
>> > might  be important ~
>> > until this point
>> > we can reffer   that
>> > GRAVITATION waves   AND LIGHT-
>> > 
>> > =ARE DIFFERENT ENTITIES..
>> > may be even 
>> > completely different entities 
>> >   and that for Itself is interesting !
>> > 
>> 
>> Something completely different has nothing in common, otherwise it
>>  is not completely different.
>> 
>> As light has wave-like behaviour, they have something in common
>> and therefore they are not completely different.
>>=============================
> and how about that they have something in common
> and other things -
>   not   in  common at  all ??

It does not matter.

Completely different things have nothing common. Different is enough.

It is like if you said you had completely emptied the bottle,
 while there was still visible some volume of liquid at the
 bottom.

That is the danger of using generalisms: not realising they are
 used incorrectly.




-- 
Libor Striz aka Poutnik ( a pilgrim/wanderer/wayfarer)

"Humour is the only effective weapon against stupidity."
Miloš Forman


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

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#699297 — Re: Do we have evidence that gravitation waves are faster than light ??

From	"Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com>
Date	2018-08-19 22:33 -0700
Subject	Re: Do we have evidence that gravitation waves are faster than light ??
Message-ID	<c6e1b4e9-b407-44c8-8ed7-891e80788e29@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#698857

On Friday, August 17, 2018 at 6:22:20 AM UTC-7, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> <poraty149@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Friday, August 17, 2018 at 2:35:28 PM UTC+3, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> >  ok
> > let my ask it a the opposite  way :
> > 
> >  do we have evidence that
> > gravitation  waves
> > move
> > slower than c ?
> 
> No. 
> 
> We do have clear evidence that gravity waves arrive here at the same time
> as optical signals from the same astronomical event. 
> 
> > ==TIA
> > Y.P

If gravitational waves had no speed limit, 
the event arriving with the light from the 
event, would just be the rebound as the lattice 
of space equilibriated itself.

You can look to van Flandern and since Laplace 
who have "gravity's speed" as at least 10^6 times c.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parameterized_post-Newtonian_formalism

Gravity always points at the object or source, 
not the image.  At any instant, the vector 
of the field of force of gravity is on a line 
connecting the centers of any two massy bodies.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_of_gravity

"In 1998 Van Flandern wrote a paper[37] asserting that 
astronomical observations imply that gravity propagates 
at least twenty billion times faster than light, or even 
infinitely fast. These claims were dismissed by mainstream 
physicists.[38][39]"
  -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Van_Flandern#Le_Sage's_theory_of_gravitation_and_the_speed_of_gravity

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Do we have evidence that gravitation waves are faster than light ??

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#698842 — Do we have evidence that gravitation waves are faster than light ??

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