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Groups > sci.physics > #697062 > unrolled thread

Rub Odd's nose in it.

Started bybenj <benj.fake@gmail.com>
First post2018-08-05 02:13 -0400
Last post2018-08-08 05:44 -0700
Articles 20 on this page of 248 — 19 participants

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Contents

  Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-05 02:13 -0400
    Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. poraty6@gmail.com - 2018-08-05 00:19 -0700
    Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Tson Ylor <uo@srsysts.sd> - 2018-08-05 12:08 +0000
      Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. poraty6@gmail.com - 2018-08-05 10:08 -0700
    Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-05 13:06 +0000
      Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-05 12:10 -0400
        Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-05 18:57 +0000
          Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 13:33 -0400
            Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 18:07 +0000
              Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 17:23 -0400
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 22:43 +0000
                  Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-07 04:39 -0400
                    Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-07 13:45 +0000
                      Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-07 08:38 -0700
                        Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-07 16:56 +0000
                          Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-07 20:11 -0400
                            Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-08 15:24 +0000
                              Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-08 08:42 -0700
                                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-08-08 11:49 -0500
                                  Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-08 13:07 -0400
                                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-08 17:02 +0000
                              Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-08 12:51 -0400
                        Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-07 13:06 -0400
                          Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-07 17:27 +0000
                      Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-07 12:50 -0400
                        Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-08-07 10:32 -0700
                          Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-07 17:58 +0000
                          Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-07 12:11 -0700
                            Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-08-08 09:43 -0700
    Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-08-05 08:27 -0500
      Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Tson Ylor <uo@srsysts.sg> - 2018-08-05 14:13 +0000
        Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-05 08:12 -0700
          Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-05 12:19 -0400
          Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 06:38 -0700
        Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-05 12:23 -0400
          Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Tson Ylor <uo@srsysts.sg> - 2018-08-05 17:47 +0000
            Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 13:32 -0400
              Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Owen Scharff <nehh@fenohw.hp> - 2018-08-06 18:05 +0000
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 17:15 -0400
                  Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Owen Scharff <nehh@fenohw.hn> - 2018-08-07 09:21 +0000
                    Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Volney <volney@volney.invalid> - 2018-08-07 08:36 -0400
      Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-05 12:17 -0400
        Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-05 18:57 +0000
          Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-05 13:31 -0700
            Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-05 20:40 +0000
              Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-05 16:19 -0700
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-08-06 04:29 +0000
                  Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 13:55 +0000
              Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 13:43 -0400
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 18:17 +0000
                  Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 17:25 -0400
                    Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 22:43 +0000
                      Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-07 04:42 -0400
                        Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-07 13:45 +0000
                          Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-07 12:52 -0400
                            Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-07 17:23 +0000
                              Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-07 20:18 -0400
            Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-08-06 04:27 +0000
              Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 06:13 -0700
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 13:55 +0000
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-08-06 15:17 +0000
                  Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 11:59 -0700
                    Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 13:09 -0700
                      Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-08-06 15:31 -0500
                        Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 13:47 -0700
                          Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-08-06 16:01 -0500
                            Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 14:11 -0700
                              Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-08-06 16:22 -0500
                        Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 17:29 -0400
                      Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-08-06 21:29 +0000
                        Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 14:34 -0700
                          Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-08-06 16:48 -0500
                          Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-08-06 21:49 +0000
                            Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-08-06 18:01 -0500
                              Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-07 04:46 -0400
                                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-07 13:49 +0000
                                  Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-07 12:54 -0400
                                    Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-07 17:23 +0000
                                      Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-07 20:18 -0400
                                        Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-08 15:55 +0000
                                          Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-08 13:00 -0400
                                        Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-08-08 09:53 -0700
                                          Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-08 09:57 -0700
                                            Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-08 17:23 +0000
                                              Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-08 18:00 -0400
                                                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-08 22:22 +0000
                                          Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-08 17:54 -0400
                                            Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-08-08 15:05 -0700
                                              Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-08 15:24 -0700
                                              Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-08 19:53 -0400
                                                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-08-09 11:49 -0500
                                                  Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-09 18:27 -0400
                                                    Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-09 22:47 +0000
                                                      Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-09 19:11 -0400
                                                        Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-10 15:08 +0000
                                                          Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-10 12:30 -0400
                                                            Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-10 16:43 +0000
                                                            Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-08-10 15:05 -0700
                                                              Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-10 18:30 -0400
                                                                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-10 23:05 +0000
                                                                  Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-11 03:12 -0400
                                                                    Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-11 03:15 -0700
                                                                    Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-11 13:55 +0000
                                                                    Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-08-13 10:25 -0700
                                                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-08-10 06:52 -0700
                                                  Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-08-10 09:36 -0500
                            Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-08-07 01:58 +0000
                              Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 21:45 -0700
                      Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-08-07 09:48 -0700
                        Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-08-07 17:29 +0000
                    Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 21:29 +0000
                    Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-08-07 09:46 -0700
            Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 06:44 -0700
            Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 13:41 -0400
          Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 13:39 -0400
            Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-08-06 19:22 -0500
              Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 18:14 -0700
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-07 01:49 +0000
                  Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 18:55 -0700
                    Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-07 04:54 -0400
                  Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-08-06 22:17 -0500
        Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-08-05 18:41 -0500
          Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. poraty149@gmail.com - 2018-08-06 08:59 -0700
            Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 16:24 +0000
              Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. poraty149@gmail.com - 2018-08-06 11:20 -0700
        Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 06:40 -0700
          Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 14:27 +0000
      Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-08-05 22:50 -0500
        Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 13:51 -0400
          Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-08-06 13:08 -0500
    Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Double-A <double-a3@hush.com> - 2018-08-05 12:23 -0700
      Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-05 19:31 +0000
        Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Double-A <double-a3@hush.com> - 2018-08-05 13:09 -0700
    Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2018-08-07 11:40 +1000
      Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-07 01:49 +0000
      Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-07 04:53 -0400
        Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Owen Scharff <nehh@fenohw.hn> - 2018-08-07 10:02 +0000
          Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-08-07 08:55 -0500
            Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-07 13:05 -0400
        Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-08-07 11:24 -0500
          Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-07 16:56 +0000
          Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-07 20:04 -0400
            Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-08-08 09:05 +0200
            Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2018-08-08 17:14 +1000
              Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-08 10:34 -0400
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-08 07:45 -0700
                  Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-08 11:18 -0400
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-08-08 20:16 +0200
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2018-08-09 09:15 +1000
                  Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-08 19:57 -0400
                    Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2018-08-09 11:48 +1000
                      Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-09 11:02 -0400
            Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-08-08 11:08 -0500
              Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-08 13:23 -0400
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-08-08 20:26 +0200
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-08-08 14:52 -0700
                  Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-08 20:06 -0400
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-08-09 10:15 -0500
                  Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-09 12:48 -0400
                    Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-08-11 23:37 -0500
                      Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Owen Scharff <nehh@fenvhw.ho> - 2018-08-12 11:31 +0000
                        Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Owen Scharff <nehh@fenvhw.ho> - 2018-08-12 11:34 +0000
                      Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-12 10:09 -0400
                        Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-08-12 21:29 -0500
                          Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Lovu Biftek <ufeli@fupuks.cl> - 2018-08-13 10:53 +0000
                          Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-13 11:41 -0400
                            Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-08-15 18:56 -0500
                              Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-15 17:24 -0700
                                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-16 14:32 +0000
                                  Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-16 13:22 -0400
                                    Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-16 18:59 +0000
                                      Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-16 20:19 -0400
                                        Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-17 00:59 +0000
                                          Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-17 06:33 -0400
                                            Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-17 11:33 +0000
                                              Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-17 08:53 -0700
                                                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-17 16:00 +0000
                                                  Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-17 09:19 -0700
                                                    Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-17 16:46 +0000
                                                      Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-17 10:30 -0700
                                                        Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-17 20:54 +0000
                                                      Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-17 14:13 -0400
                                                  Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-17 13:43 -0400
                                                    Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-17 20:54 +0000
                                                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-17 13:37 -0400
                                                  Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-17 10:52 -0700
                                                    Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-17 20:54 +0000
                                                  Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-08-17 11:17 -0700
                                                    Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-17 12:09 -0700
                                                      Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-17 20:58 +0000
                                                        Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-17 15:19 -0700
                                                          Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-17 22:33 +0000
                                                            Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-17 15:55 -0700
                                                              Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-18 14:11 +0000
                                                                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-18 07:22 -0700
                                                                  Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-18 15:56 +0000
                                                                    Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-18 11:03 -0700
                                                                      Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-18 18:32 +0000
                                                                        Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-18 14:21 -0700
                                                                          Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-19 00:15 +0000
                                                                            Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-18 17:35 -0700
                                                                              Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-19 02:38 +0000
                                                                                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-19 02:54 -0700
                                                                            Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-18 19:15 -0700
                                                                              Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-19 14:01 +0000
                                                                                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-08-19 22:20 -0500
                                                                                  Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-20 14:29 -0400
                                                                    Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-18 16:31 -0400
                                                                      Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-08-18 15:44 -0700
                                                                        Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-18 21:57 -0400
                                                                          Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-08-19 20:02 -0700
                                                                            Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-20 14:21 -0400
                                                                      Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-19 00:15 +0000
                                                                        Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-18 22:03 -0400
                                                                          Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-08-19 20:05 -0700
                                                                            Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-20 14:39 +0000
                                                                            Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-20 14:22 -0400
                                                                              Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-20 19:44 +0000
                                                                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-18 16:30 -0400
                                                                  Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-19 00:15 +0000
                                                                    Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-18 22:01 -0400
                                                                      Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-19 14:01 +0000
                                                                        Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-19 12:39 -0400
                                                                          Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-19 18:35 +0000
                                                                            Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-20 14:12 -0400
                                                                              Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-20 19:44 +0000
                                                                          Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-08-19 20:15 -0700
                                                                            Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-20 05:43 -0700
                                                                              Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-08-20 07:23 -0700
                                                                            Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-20 14:25 -0400
                                                      Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-08-18 15:38 -0700
                                                        Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-18 16:06 -0700
                                                          Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-19 02:38 +0000
                                                  Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-17 20:54 +0000
                                    Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-08-16 15:24 -0700
                                      Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-16 20:01 -0400
            Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-08 23:55 +0000
              Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-09 10:58 -0400
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-09 15:26 +0000
                  Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-09 12:36 -0400
                    Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-09 17:53 +0000
                      Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-09 12:21 -0700
                        Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-09 21:49 +0000
                          Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-09 19:28 -0400
                            Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-10 15:08 +0000
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-08-10 07:01 -0700
          Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Owen Scharff <nehh@fenohw.hn> - 2018-08-08 11:12 +0000
            Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-08 05:44 -0700

Page 7 of 13 — ← Prev page 1 … 5 6 [7] 8 9 … 13  Next page →


#697374

FromSergio <invalid@invalid.com>
Date2018-08-06 22:17 -0500
Message-ID<pkb300$1guj$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#697363
On 8/6/2018 8:49 PM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Tom
>> “The discovery of 0 as a valid number by the ancients is now an essential ”
>> Is one of the main reasons your science is so fucked right now.
>> No such thing as nothing. Space is FULL of energy at a smaller gauge. If
>> there were ANY true vacuum anywhere, the pressure of Space would smack it
>> shut like a nuclear bomb.
>> You guys are SO lost.
>> Poor little bean counters that can’t figure out what a bean plant is. :(
>>
> 
> John sez zero is not a number. 
> 

oh no! We is DOOMED !  actually the ancients forgot 0 for a long time,
then started using it to indicate nothing (left over from accounting )

      $1.00  is totally centsless!

if you have nothing, that's something.

space is *not* full of energy, that is only theoretical, and you cannot
extract any energy out of it.

wiki says
"According to quantum field theory, the universe *can be thought of* not
as isolated particles but continuous fluctuating fields:.. "

"can be thought of" is not "is"   Theory, but not real.

ZPE is fake news.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#697152

FromTom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net>
Date2018-08-05 18:41 -0500
Message-ID<h6qdnR6bduCtFvrGnZ2dnUU7_8zNnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#697105
On 8/5/18 11:17 AM, benj wrote:
> On 8/5/2018 9:27 AM, Tom Roberts wrote:
>> On 8/5/18 1:13 AM, benj wrote:
>>> Odd Boinker says that electric fields do not travel that the speed c. 
>>> (the speed of light) He says only field disturbances travel at that 
>>> speed.
>>> [... nonsense]
>>
>> He is correct: fields do not "propagate", but changes in fields can 
>> and do. To see this, all one has to do is examine a) what "field" 
>> means, and b) the form of the Lienard-Wiechert potentials of classical 
>> electrodynamics.
>>
>> Your discussion violates basic conservation laws and is therefore 
>> useless. Modifying it to obey the conservation of charge forces the 
>> two charges to be introduced at the same point and then separated, and 
>> that destroys what you think is an argument.
>>
>> But it is true that if you have a charge present, and then wiggle it, 
>> locations a distance L away won't observe the wiggling until a delay 
>> of L/c.
> 
> So your argument is that all fields already exist throughout all space 
> and then when a charge is created only the disturbances travel down 
> these already existing fields at the speed of c?  You know that is 
> nonsense.

The nonsense is YOURS, not mine. That is NOT my argument.

	Hint: charge cannot be "created".

My point is that your original discussion violated the conservation of 
charge, and is therefore useless. Fix that, and your "argument" 
disappears. That is, create a +/- pair of charges at one point, and then 
separate them -- as they separate each one continually and continuously 
"feels" the force from the other. Work out the details using the L-W 
potential and it is quite clear that the value of the field at one 
charge's location depends on the RETARDED position of the other (here 
"retarded" means the position a time L/c before the time of the 
measurement [#]).

	[#] One must use a single inertial frame for all
	measurements and the time coordinate.

> Even if you introduce two charges and separate them, this still creates 
> a dipole field traveling away at c. It will not be instantaneously 
> sensed by a test charge somewhere.

Hmmmm. That's basically what I said using different words AND SPEAKING 
LOOSELY. It is not the "dipole field" that is propagating, but rather 
changes to the field in the form of an outward-expanding dipole. The 
field itself has a value everywhere and everywhen throughout the 
universe; it may well have a value indistinguishable from 0 in many/most 
places.

	This is in classical electrodynamics. It is hopeless to
	attempt a discussion in the context of QED around here.

Tom Roberts

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#697247

Fromporaty149@gmail.com
Date2018-08-06 08:59 -0700
Message-ID<8840b604-f051-4940-a714-e546c976787d@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#697152
On Monday, August 6, 2018 at 2:41:43 AM UTC+3, Tom Roberts wrote:
> On 8/5/18 11:17 AM, benj wrote:
> > On 8/5/2018 9:27 AM, Tom Roberts wrote:
> >> On 8/5/18 1:13 AM, benj wrote:
> >>> Odd Boinker says that electric fields do not travel that the speed c. 
> >>> (the speed of light) He says only field disturbances travel at that 
> >>> speed.
> >>> [... nonsense]
> >>
> >> He is correct: fields do not "propagate", but changes in fields can 
> >> and do. To see this, all one has to do is examine a) what "field" 
> >> means, and b) the form of the Lienard-Wiechert potentials of classical 
> >> electrodynamics.
> >>
> >> Your discussion violates basic conservation laws and is therefore 
> >> useless. Modifying it to obey the conservation of charge forces the 
> >> two charges to be introduced at the same point and then separated, and 
> >> that destroys what you think is an argument.
> >>
> >> But it is true that if you have a charge present, and then wiggle it, 
> >> locations a distance L away won't observe the wiggling until a delay 
> >> of L/c.
> > 
> > So your argument is that all fields already exist throughout all space 
> > and then when a charge is created only the disturbances travel down 
> > these already existing fields at the speed of c?  You know that is 
> > nonsense.
> 
> The nonsense is YOURS, not mine. That is NOT my argument.
> 
> 	Hint: charge cannot be "created".
> 
> My point is that your original discussion violated the conservation of 
> charge, and is therefore useless. Fix that, and your "argument" 
> disappears. That is, create a +/- pair of charges at one point, and then 
> separate them -- as they separate each one continually and continuously 
> "feels" the force from the other. Work out the details using the L-W 
> potential and it is quite clear that the value of the field at one 
> charge's location depends on the RETARDED position of the other (here 
> "retarded" means the position a time L/c before the time of the 
> measurement [#]).
> 
> 	[#] One must use a single inertial frame for all
> 	measurements and the time coordinate.
> 
> > Even if you introduce two charges and separate them, this still creates 
> > a dipole field traveling away at c. It will not be instantaneously 
> > sensed by a test charge somewhere.
> 
> Hmmmm. That's basically what I said using different words AND SPEAKING 
> LOOSELY. It is not the "dipole field" that is propagating, but rather 
> changes to the field in the form of an outward-expanding dipole. The 
> field itself has a value everywhere and everywhen throughout the 
> universe; it may well have a value indistinguishable from 0 in many/most 
> places.
> 
> 	This is in classical electrodynamics. It is hopeless to
> 	attempt a discussion in the context of QED around here.
> 
> Tom Roberts
==========================
fields exist only were  **mass exist *
just as simple as that 
===========================================
mass * is the creator of all forces 
including gravity !!
==========================================
new copyright 
Y.Porat
============================

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#697256

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2018-08-06 16:24 +0000
Message-ID<pk9snb$1n38$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#697247
<poraty149@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Monday, August 6, 2018 at 2:41:43 AM UTC+3, Tom Roberts wrote:
>> On 8/5/18 11:17 AM, benj wrote:
>>> On 8/5/2018 9:27 AM, Tom Roberts wrote:
>>>> On 8/5/18 1:13 AM, benj wrote:
>>>>> Odd Boinker says that electric fields do not travel that the speed c. 
>>>>> (the speed of light) He says only field disturbances travel at that 
>>>>> speed.
>>>>> [... nonsense]
>>>> 
>>>> He is correct: fields do not "propagate", but changes in fields can 
>>>> and do. To see this, all one has to do is examine a) what "field" 
>>>> means, and b) the form of the Lienard-Wiechert potentials of classical 
>>>> electrodynamics.
>>>> 
>>>> Your discussion violates basic conservation laws and is therefore 
>>>> useless. Modifying it to obey the conservation of charge forces the 
>>>> two charges to be introduced at the same point and then separated, and 
>>>> that destroys what you think is an argument.
>>>> 
>>>> But it is true that if you have a charge present, and then wiggle it, 
>>>> locations a distance L away won't observe the wiggling until a delay 
>>>> of L/c.
>>> 
>>> So your argument is that all fields already exist throughout all space 
>>> and then when a charge is created only the disturbances travel down 
>>> these already existing fields at the speed of c?  You know that is 
>>> nonsense.
>> 
>> The nonsense is YOURS, not mine. That is NOT my argument.
>> 
>> Hint: charge cannot be "created".
>> 
>> My point is that your original discussion violated the conservation of 
>> charge, and is therefore useless. Fix that, and your "argument" 
>> disappears. That is, create a +/- pair of charges at one point, and then 
>> separate them -- as they separate each one continually and continuously 
>> "feels" the force from the other. Work out the details using the L-W 
>> potential and it is quite clear that the value of the field at one 
>> charge's location depends on the RETARDED position of the other (here 
>> "retarded" means the position a time L/c before the time of the 
>> measurement [#]).
>> 
>> [#] One must use a single inertial frame for all
>> measurements and the time coordinate.
>> 
>>> Even if you introduce two charges and separate them, this still creates 
>>> a dipole field traveling away at c. It will not be instantaneously 
>>> sensed by a test charge somewhere.
>> 
>> Hmmmm. That's basically what I said using different words AND SPEAKING 
>> LOOSELY. It is not the "dipole field" that is propagating, but rather 
>> changes to the field in the form of an outward-expanding dipole. The 
>> field itself has a value everywhere and everywhen throughout the 
>> universe; it may well have a value indistinguishable from 0 in many/most 
>> places.
>> 
>> This is in classical electrodynamics. It is hopeless to
>> attempt a discussion in the context of QED around here.
>> 
>> Tom Roberts
> ==========================
> fields exist only were  **mass exist *
> just as simple as that 

Even if that mass is a million miles away. 

> ===========================================
> mass * is the creator of all forces 
> including gravity !!
> ==========================================
> new copyright 
> Y.Porat
> ============================
> 
> 



-- 
Odd Bodkin — Maker of fine toys, tools, tables

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#697288

Fromporaty149@gmail.com
Date2018-08-06 11:20 -0700
Message-ID<36298b97-b031-4fa4-a9ba-d6ebcbc91492@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#697256
On Monday, August 6, 2018 at 7:24:16 PM UTC+3, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> <poraty149@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Monday, August 6, 2018 at 2:41:43 AM UTC+3, Tom Roberts wrote:
> >> On 8/5/18 11:17 AM, benj wrote:
> >>> On 8/5/2018 9:27 AM, Tom Roberts wrote:
> >>>> On 8/5/18 1:13 AM, benj wrote:
> >>>>> Odd Boinker says that electric fields do not travel that the speed c. 
> >>>>> (the speed of light) He says only field disturbances travel at that 
> >>>>> speed.
> >>>>> [... nonsense]
> >>>> 
> >>>> He is correct: fields do not "propagate", but changes in fields can 
> >>>> and do. To see this, all one has to do is examine a) what "field" 
> >>>> means, and b) the form of the Lienard-Wiechert potentials of classical 
> >>>> electrodynamics.
> >>>> 
> >>>> Your discussion violates basic conservation laws and is therefore 
> >>>> useless. Modifying it to obey the conservation of charge forces the 
> >>>> two charges to be introduced at the same point and then separated, and 
> >>>> that destroys what you think is an argument.
> >>>> 
> >>>> But it is true that if you have a charge present, and then wiggle it, 
> >>>> locations a distance L away won't observe the wiggling until a delay 
> >>>> of L/c.
> >>> 
> >>> So your argument is that all fields already exist throughout all space 
> >>> and then when a charge is created only the disturbances travel down 
> >>> these already existing fields at the speed of c?  You know that is 
> >>> nonsense.
> >> 
> >> The nonsense is YOURS, not mine. That is NOT my argument.
> >> 
> >> Hint: charge cannot be "created".
> >> 
> >> My point is that your original discussion violated the conservation of 
> >> charge, and is therefore useless. Fix that, and your "argument" 
> >> disappears. That is, create a +/- pair of charges at one point, and then 
> >> separate them -- as they separate each one continually and continuously 
> >> "feels" the force from the other. Work out the details using the L-W 
> >> potential and it is quite clear that the value of the field at one 
> >> charge's location depends on the RETARDED position of the other (here 
> >> "retarded" means the position a time L/c before the time of the 
> >> measurement [#]).
> >> 
> >> [#] One must use a single inertial frame for all
> >> measurements and the time coordinate.
> >> 
> >>> Even if you introduce two charges and separate them, this still creates 
> >>> a dipole field traveling away at c. It will not be instantaneously 
> >>> sensed by a test charge somewhere.
> >> 
> >> Hmmmm. That's basically what I said using different words AND SPEAKING 
> >> LOOSELY. It is not the "dipole field" that is propagating, but rather 
> >> changes to the field in the form of an outward-expanding dipole. The 
> >> field itself has a value everywhere and everywhen throughout the 
> >> universe; it may well have a value indistinguishable from 0 in many/most 
> >> places.
> >> 
> >> This is in classical electrodynamics. It is hopeless to
> >> attempt a discussion in the context of QED around here.
> >> 
> >> Tom Roberts
> > ==========================
> > fields exist only were  **mass exist *
> > just as simple as that 
> 
> Even if that mass is a million miles away.
==================
good question !
yet the residuals of mass 
for instance
photons .....
can travel   ..may be you say
how long ??
2
have you a better suggestion ??
may be ''curves space''  (:-)as a creator of forces ??
--
Y.Porat
============================

> > ===========================================
> > mass * is the creator of all forces 
> > including gravity !!
> > ==========================================
> > new copyright 
> > Y.Porat
> > ============================

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#697223

FromEdward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com>
Date2018-08-06 06:40 -0700
Message-ID<f8e289fb-34f4-4e6a-8d6c-09adf3e930c3@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#697105
On Sunday, August 5, 2018 at 12:17:22 PM UTC-4, benj wrote:
> On 8/5/2018 9:27 AM, Tom Roberts wrote:
> > On 8/5/18 1:13 AM, benj wrote:
> >> Odd Boinker says that electric fields do not travel that the speed c. 
> >> (the speed of light) He says only field disturbances travel at that 
> >> speed.
> >> [... nonsense]
> > 
> > He is correct: fields do not "propagate", but changes in fields can and 
> > do. To see this, all one has to do is examine a) what "field" means, and 
> > b) the form of the Lienard-Wiechert potentials of classical 
> > electrodynamics.
> > 
> > Your discussion violates basic conservation laws and is therefore 
> > useless. Modifying it to obey the conservation of charge forces the two 
> > charges to be introduced at the same point and then separated, and that 
> > destroys what you think is an argument.
> > 
> > But it is true that if you have a charge present, and then wiggle it, 
> > locations a distance L away won't observe the wiggling until a delay of 
> > L/c.
> > 
> > Tom Roberts
> 
> So your argument is that all fields already exist throughout all space 
> and then when a charge is created only the disturbances travel down 
> these already existing fields at the speed of c?  You know that is 
> nonsense.
> 
> Even if you introduce two charges and separate them, this still creates 
> a dipole field traveling away at c. It will not be instantaneously 
> sensed by a test charge somewhere.

benj,
Which is EXACTLY what Odd was describing, which is exactly what happens.
Stop arguing just for argument's sake.

Good grief.
  Ed

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#697230

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2018-08-06 14:27 +0000
Message-ID<pk9ls5$1a9c$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#697223
Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sunday, August 5, 2018 at 12:17:22 PM UTC-4, benj wrote:
>> On 8/5/2018 9:27 AM, Tom Roberts wrote:
>>> On 8/5/18 1:13 AM, benj wrote:
>>>> Odd Boinker says that electric fields do not travel that the speed c. 
>>>> (the speed of light) He says only field disturbances travel at that 
>>>> speed.
>>>> [... nonsense]
>>> 
>>> He is correct: fields do not "propagate", but changes in fields can and 
>>> do. To see this, all one has to do is examine a) what "field" means, and 
>>> b) the form of the Lienard-Wiechert potentials of classical 
>>> electrodynamics.
>>> 
>>> Your discussion violates basic conservation laws and is therefore 
>>> useless. Modifying it to obey the conservation of charge forces the two 
>>> charges to be introduced at the same point and then separated, and that 
>>> destroys what you think is an argument.
>>> 
>>> But it is true that if you have a charge present, and then wiggle it, 
>>> locations a distance L away won't observe the wiggling until a delay of 
>>> L/c.
>>> 
>>> Tom Roberts
>> 
>> So your argument is that all fields already exist throughout all space 
>> and then when a charge is created only the disturbances travel down 
>> these already existing fields at the speed of c?  You know that is 
>> nonsense.
>> 
>> Even if you introduce two charges and separate them, this still creates 
>> a dipole field traveling away at c. It will not be instantaneously 
>> sensed by a test charge somewhere.
> 
> benj,
> Which is EXACTLY what Odd was describing, which is exactly what happens.
> Stop arguing just for argument's sake.
> 
> Good grief.
>   Ed
> 

Ben just likes to stir the pot when people like John are told they don’t
know what they’re talking about. He will root for the underdog even if that
entails saying things he KNOWS are not so. 

-- 
Odd Bodkin — Maker of fine toys, tools, tables

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#697192

FromSergio <invalid@invalid.com>
Date2018-08-05 22:50 -0500
Message-ID<pk8ght$1cmp$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#697089
On 8/5/2018 8:27 AM, Tom Roberts wrote:
> On 8/5/18 1:13 AM, benj wrote:
>> Odd Boinker says that electric fields do not travel that the speed c.
>> (the speed of light) He says only field disturbances travel at that
>> speed.
>> [... nonsense]
> 
> He is correct: fields do not "propagate", but changes in fields can and
> do. To see this, all one has to do is examine a) what "field" means, and
> b) the form of the Lienard-Wiechert potentials of classical
> electrodynamics.
> 
> Your discussion violates basic conservation laws and is therefore
> useless. Modifying it to obey the conservation of charge forces the two
> charges to be introduced at the same point and then separated, and that
> destroys what you think is an argument.
> 
> But it is true that if you have a charge present, and then wiggle it,
> locations a distance L away won't observe the wiggling until a delay of
> L/c.
> 
> Tom Roberts


E field on a Cat;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cat_demonstrating_static_cling_with_styrofoam_peanuts.jpg

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#697275

Frombenj <benj.fake@gmail.com>
Date2018-08-06 13:51 -0400
Message-ID<pka1rh$rl$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#697192
On 8/5/2018 11:50 PM, Sergio wrote:
> On 8/5/2018 8:27 AM, Tom Roberts wrote:
>> On 8/5/18 1:13 AM, benj wrote:
>>> Odd Boinker says that electric fields do not travel that the speed c.
>>> (the speed of light) He says only field disturbances travel at that
>>> speed.
>>> [... nonsense]
>>
>> He is correct: fields do not "propagate", but changes in fields can and
>> do. To see this, all one has to do is examine a) what "field" means, and
>> b) the form of the Lienard-Wiechert potentials of classical
>> electrodynamics.
>>
>> Your discussion violates basic conservation laws and is therefore
>> useless. Modifying it to obey the conservation of charge forces the two
>> charges to be introduced at the same point and then separated, and that
>> destroys what you think is an argument.
>>
>> But it is true that if you have a charge present, and then wiggle it,
>> locations a distance L away won't observe the wiggling until a delay of
>> L/c.
>>
>> Tom Roberts
> 
> 
> E field on a Cat;
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cat_demonstrating_static_cling_with_styrofoam_peanuts.jpg
> 
Save the Cat!

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Static-Guard-Spray-5-5-Ounces/21092566

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#697284

FromSergio <invalid@invalid.com>
Date2018-08-06 13:08 -0500
Message-ID<pka2r5$261$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#697275
On 8/6/2018 12:51 PM, benj wrote:
> On 8/5/2018 11:50 PM, Sergio wrote:
>> On 8/5/2018 8:27 AM, Tom Roberts wrote:
>>> On 8/5/18 1:13 AM, benj wrote:
>>>> Odd Boinker says that electric fields do not travel that the speed c.
>>>> (the speed of light) He says only field disturbances travel at that
>>>> speed.
>>>> [... nonsense]
>>>
>>> He is correct: fields do not "propagate", but changes in fields can and
>>> do. To see this, all one has to do is examine a) what "field" means, and
>>> b) the form of the Lienard-Wiechert potentials of classical
>>> electrodynamics.
>>>
>>> Your discussion violates basic conservation laws and is therefore
>>> useless. Modifying it to obey the conservation of charge forces the two
>>> charges to be introduced at the same point and then separated, and that
>>> destroys what you think is an argument.
>>>
>>> But it is true that if you have a charge present, and then wiggle it,
>>> locations a distance L away won't observe the wiggling until a delay of
>>> L/c.
>>>
>>> Tom Roberts
>>
>>
>> E field on a Cat;
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cat_demonstrating_static_cling_with_styrofoam_peanuts.jpg
>>
>>
> Save the Cat!
> 
> https://www.walmart.com/ip/Static-Guard-Spray-5-5-Ounces/21092566

Great find benj!

I got a few cans and I'm trying to spray the cats in the neighborhood
before they run into a static charged E field.

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#697123

FromDouble-A <double-a3@hush.com>
Date2018-08-05 12:23 -0700
Message-ID<98bfcc91-ab84-4d92-8497-6051f16de2b5@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#697062
On Saturday, August 4, 2018 at 11:13:55 PM UTC-7, benj wrote:
> Odd Boinker says that electric fields do not travel that the speed c. 
> (the speed of light) He says only field disturbances travel at that speed.
> 
> So let's do an experiment. Start with an empty region of space with no 
> electric fields or forces in it.
> 
> Now suddenly introduce an electron and a positive "test charge" to 
> measure the field produced by the electron.
> 
> So at the instant the two charges are introduced what do they 
> experience? Do they experience each other's force fields or not?
> 
> The answer is clear. They do not. For if they did, if say the electric 
> fields appeared though space simultaneously, we would have "action at a 
> distance" and the method could be used for faster than light signalling 
> which would violate relativity.
> 
> Hence there MUST be a delay caused by a propagation time which can be no 
> shorter than that created by propagation at the speed of light.
> 
> It's as simple as that.


Now how do you propose to "introduce" the charged particles into a location in space without dragging them there from somewhere else, and their fields along with them?  

Double-A

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#697126

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2018-08-05 19:31 +0000
Message-ID<pk7j9t$15e$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#697123
Double-A <double-a3@hush.com> wrote:
> On Saturday, August 4, 2018 at 11:13:55 PM UTC-7, benj wrote:
>> Odd Boinker says that electric fields do not travel that the speed c. 
>> (the speed of light) He says only field disturbances travel at that speed.
>> 
>> So let's do an experiment. Start with an empty region of space with no 
>> electric fields or forces in it.
>> 
>> Now suddenly introduce an electron and a positive "test charge" to 
>> measure the field produced by the electron.
>> 
>> So at the instant the two charges are introduced what do they 
>> experience? Do they experience each other's force fields or not?
>> 
>> The answer is clear. They do not. For if they did, if say the electric 
>> fields appeared though space simultaneously, we would have "action at a 
>> distance" and the method could be used for faster than light signalling 
>> which would violate relativity.
>> 
>> Hence there MUST be a delay caused by a propagation time which can be no 
>> shorter than that created by propagation at the speed of light.
>> 
>> It's as simple as that.
> 
> 
> Now how do you propose to "introduce" the charged particles into a
> location in space without dragging them there from somewhere else, and
> their fields along with them?  
> 
> Double-A
> 
> 

Well you could do pair production, with a gamma passing nearby a charged
nucleus. Oh, photon is a an electromagnetic field quantum. And there’s an
existing electric field due to the nucleus. 

Oh well. :)

-- 
Odd Bodkin — Maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#697131

FromDouble-A <double-a3@hush.com>
Date2018-08-05 13:09 -0700
Message-ID<a66bdb1d-4375-4707-9f74-cfee1489091b@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#697126
On Sunday, August 5, 2018 at 12:31:15 PM UTC-7, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> Double-A <double-a3@hush.com> wrote:
> > On Saturday, August 4, 2018 at 11:13:55 PM UTC-7, benj wrote:
> >> Odd Boinker says that electric fields do not travel that the speed c. 
> >> (the speed of light) He says only field disturbances travel at that speed.
> >> 
> >> So let's do an experiment. Start with an empty region of space with no 
> >> electric fields or forces in it.
> >> 
> >> Now suddenly introduce an electron and a positive "test charge" to 
> >> measure the field produced by the electron.
> >> 
> >> So at the instant the two charges are introduced what do they 
> >> experience? Do they experience each other's force fields or not?
> >> 
> >> The answer is clear. They do not. For if they did, if say the electric 
> >> fields appeared though space simultaneously, we would have "action at a 
> >> distance" and the method could be used for faster than light signalling 
> >> which would violate relativity.
> >> 
> >> Hence there MUST be a delay caused by a propagation time which can be no 
> >> shorter than that created by propagation at the speed of light.
> >> 
> >> It's as simple as that.
> > 
> > 
> > Now how do you propose to "introduce" the charged particles into a
> > location in space without dragging them there from somewhere else, and
> > their fields along with them?  
> > 
> > Double-A
> > 
> > 
> 
> Well you could do pair production, with a gamma passing nearby a charged
> nucleus. Oh, photon is a an electromagnetic field quantum. And there’s an
> existing electric field due to the nucleus. 
> 
> Oh well. :)
> 
> -- 
> Odd Bodkin — Maker of fine toys, tools, tables


And pair production could not instantaneously produce two oppositely charged particles at separate locations.

Double-A

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#697361

FromSylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address>
Date2018-08-07 11:40 +1000
Message-ID<fssbkdFl26kU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#697062
On 5/08/2018 4:13 PM, benj wrote:
> Odd Boinker says that electric fields do not travel that the speed c. 
> (the speed of light) He says only field disturbances travel at that speed.
> 

What does it even mean to talk about the motion of a field?

Sylvia.

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#697362

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2018-08-07 01:49 +0000
Message-ID<pkatr9$1a7p$2@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#697361
Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote:
> On 5/08/2018 4:13 PM, benj wrote:
>> Odd Boinker says that electric fields do not travel that the speed c. 
>> (the speed of light) He says only field disturbances travel at that speed.
>> 
> 
> What does it even mean to talk about the motion of a field?
> 
> Sylvia.
> 

Well maybe one of Ben’s books can explain that. We shall see. 

-- 
Odd Bodkin -- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#697404

Frombenj <benj.fake@gmail.com>
Date2018-08-07 04:53 -0400
Message-ID<pkbmlu$d5l$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#697361
On 8/6/2018 9:40 PM, Sylvia Else wrote:
> On 5/08/2018 4:13 PM, benj wrote:
>> Odd Boinker says that electric fields do not travel that the speed c. 
>> (the speed of light) He says only field disturbances travel at that 
>> speed.
>>
> 
> What does it even mean to talk about the motion of a field?
> 
> Sylvia.

Are you talking mathematics or physics?
Do you agree that agree with Odd that empty space containing no charges 
and hence produces no forces on test charges is not devoid of fields but 
actually is filled with an electric (an other types) of fields whose 
value is simply zero?

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#697411

FromOwen Scharff <nehh@fenohw.hn>
Date2018-08-07 10:02 +0000
Message-ID<pkbqn1$fl8$6@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#697404
benj wrote:

> On 8/6/2018 9:40 PM, Sylvia Else wrote:
>> On 5/08/2018 4:13 PM, benj wrote:
>>> Odd Boinker says that electric fields do not travel that the speed c.
>>> (the speed of light) He says only field disturbances travel at that
>>> speed.
>>
>> What does it even mean to talk about the motion of a field? Sylvia.
> 
> Are you talking mathematics or physics?
> Do you agree that agree with Odd that empty space containing no charges
> and hence produces no forces on test charges is not devoid of fields but
> actually is filled with an electric (an other types) of fields whose
> value is simply zero?

So you don't know that field induction is recursive redundant, mutual and 
reciprocal. Aan _almost half-engineer_ in computer science, I guess?

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#697425

FromSergio <invalid@invalid.com>
Date2018-08-07 08:55 -0500
Message-ID<pkc8bu$1bb8$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#697411
On 8/7/2018 5:02 AM, Owen Scharff wrote:
> benj wrote:
> 
>> On 8/6/2018 9:40 PM, Sylvia Else wrote:
>>> On 5/08/2018 4:13 PM, benj wrote:
>>>> Odd Boinker says that electric fields do not travel that the speed c.
>>>> (the speed of light) He says only field disturbances travel at that
>>>> speed.
>>>
>>> What does it even mean to talk about the motion of a field? Sylvia.
>>
>> Are you talking mathematics or physics?
>> Do you agree that agree with Odd that empty space containing no charges
>> and hence produces no forces on test charges is not devoid of fields but
>> actually is filled with an electric (an other types) of fields whose
>> value is simply zero?
> 
> So you don't know that field induction is recursive redundant, mutual and 
> reciprocal. Aan _almost half-engineer_ in computer science, I guess?
> 

that is how the Army gets new people in, field induction.

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#697447

Frombenj <benj.fake@gmail.com>
Date2018-08-07 13:05 -0400
Message-ID<pkcjh1$1vnf$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#697425
On 8/7/2018 9:55 AM, Sergio wrote:
> On 8/7/2018 5:02 AM, Owen Scharff wrote:
>> benj wrote:
>>
>>> On 8/6/2018 9:40 PM, Sylvia Else wrote:
>>>> On 5/08/2018 4:13 PM, benj wrote:
>>>>> Odd Boinker says that electric fields do not travel that the speed c.
>>>>> (the speed of light) He says only field disturbances travel at that
>>>>> speed.
>>>>
>>>> What does it even mean to talk about the motion of a field? Sylvia.
>>>
>>> Are you talking mathematics or physics?
>>> Do you agree that agree with Odd that empty space containing no charges
>>> and hence produces no forces on test charges is not devoid of fields but
>>> actually is filled with an electric (an other types) of fields whose
>>> value is simply zero?
>>
>> So you don't know that field induction is recursive redundant, mutual and
>> reciprocal. Aan _almost half-engineer_ in computer science, I guess?
>>
> 
> that is how the Army gets new people in, field induction.
> 
<snort>

Hey how come this post of Sylvia's  didn't appear on my server yet?

Wait a minute, Sylvia, if fields can be "induced" that implies they are 
created rather than Odd's theory that space is always filled with 
immovable fields of zero magnitude that suddenly get modulated.

And it is understood by real physicists and engineers that fields are 
defined starting in a reciprocal manner but that the final field is 
determined by an abstract fantasy limiting process eliminating the 
reciprocity. Right? (See Jackson) My question about mathematics or 
physics was highly relevant.

I take it you are one of those minority females studying IT hoping to 
graduate and try to compete with men one day.

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#697435

FromTom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net>
Date2018-08-07 11:24 -0500
Message-ID<7cudnSH91s0jWvTGnZ2dnUU7_83NnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#697404
On 8/7/18 3:53 AM, benj wrote:
> Are you talking mathematics or physics?

Both -- the mathematical structure of current physical theories and models.

> Do you agree that agree with Odd that empty space containing no charges and 
> hence produces no forces on test charges is not devoid of fields but actually is 
> filled with an electric (an other types) of fields whose value is simply zero?

Yes. Because if you believe Maxwell's equations apply, or if you believe that 
QED applies, then you are FORCED to conclude there is a corresponding 
electromagnetic field everywhere, including regions in which it is zero (which 
really never happens).

	As I said before, this is INHERENT in what "field" means.

Tom Roberts

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