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*FREE POWER FROM THE SUN* ~~~~~~~~~~~~ perspex covered Lake at 75 oC

Started bygrahamcooper7@gmail.com
First post2016-12-25 17:47 -0800
Last post2016-12-26 18:30 -0800
Articles 8 — 3 participants

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Contents

  *FREE POWER FROM THE SUN*  ~~~~~~~~~~~~ perspex covered Lake at 75 oC grahamcooper7@gmail.com - 2016-12-25 17:47 -0800
    Re: *FREE POWER FROM THE SUN* ~~~~~~~~~~~~ perspex covered Lake at 75 oC Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-12-26 13:15 +1100
      Re: *FREE POWER FROM THE SUN* ~~~~~~~~~~~~ perspex covered Lake at 75 oC grahamcooper7@gmail.com - 2016-12-26 00:02 -0800
        Re: *FREE POWER FROM THE SUN* ~~~~~~~~~~~~ perspex covered Lake at 75 oC Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-12-26 23:16 +1100
          Re: *FREE POWER FROM THE SUN* ~~~~~~~~~~~~ perspex covered Lake at 75 oC benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-12-26 16:47 -0500
          Re: *FREE POWER FROM THE SUN* ~~~~~~~~~~~~ perspex covered Lake at 75 oC grahamcooper7@gmail.com - 2016-12-26 15:30 -0800
            Re: *FREE POWER FROM THE SUN* ~~~~~~~~~~~~ perspex covered Lake at 75 oC Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-12-27 11:58 +1100
              Re: *FREE POWER FROM THE SUN* ~~~~~~~~~~~~ perspex covered Lake at 75 oC grahamcooper7@gmail.com - 2016-12-26 18:30 -0800

#610371 — *FREE POWER FROM THE SUN* ~~~~~~~~~~~~ perspex covered Lake at 75 oC

Fromgrahamcooper7@gmail.com
Date2016-12-25 17:47 -0800
Subject*FREE POWER FROM THE SUN* ~~~~~~~~~~~~ perspex covered Lake at 75 oC
Message-ID<1b9f170e-5cbd-4ee0-82d6-dd2a76a2be60@googlegroups.com>
Water has a very high thermal capacity!

4.2 joules per degree per gram




Moving Hot Water across a large body of water is energy cheap!

==Tap
  |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
  |_______________________|===Tap
   <-----------X--------->

The mass of water moved doesn't matter, the entire body will self-organize into a lower equilibrium state, whether the Canal is 1 meter long or 10 kilometers long!




Pumping cooled water over a break in the Canal back into the Circuit is energy cheap!  You only need to pump a megaton of water 1 inch high over the Lip!





Sterling Engines convert Heat to Motion, and Generators convert Motion to Electricity!

Sterling Engines are simple and EFFICIENT!


 TEMP DIFFERENCE
___________________

 AVG. TEMP KELVIN



Or roughly 60/300 = 20% OF HEAT CONVERTED TO MOTION






Transferring HEAT from the HOT WATER BODY into the STERLINE ENGINE is easy!

 HOT STREAM >> HEAT SINK FINS >> COOL WATER >> PUMP
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
__________________________________________|__________






Cooling the STERLINE ENGINE is easy!   It has 1 COLD PISTON TOO!
Evaporation Water Tanks or MISTING FANS are IDEAL!







POWER STATION RUNS 24/7 FROM SOLAR! 

So what are you waiting for?  GET THOSE STERLINE ENGINES RUNNING ON BOILING AND ICY WATER!  DIG THOSE TRENCHES AND LINE THEM WITH PLASTIC!  THE FREE ENERGEY WORLD IS HERE!

[toc] | [next] | [standalone]


#610375 — Re: *FREE POWER FROM THE SUN* ~~~~~~~~~~~~ perspex covered Lake at 75 oC

FromSylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address>
Date2016-12-26 13:15 +1100
SubjectRe: *FREE POWER FROM THE SUN* ~~~~~~~~~~~~ perspex covered Lake at 75 oC
Message-ID<ecbcpoFnug2U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#610371
On 26/12/2016 12:47 PM, grahamcooper7@gmail.com wrote:
> Water has a very high thermal capacity!
>
> 4.2 joules per degree per gram
>
>
>
>
> Moving Hot Water across a large body of water is energy cheap!
>
> ==Tap |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| |_______________________|===Tap
> <-----------X--------->
>
> The mass of water moved doesn't matter, the entire body will
> self-organize into a lower equilibrium state, whether the Canal is 1
> meter long or 10 kilometers long!
>
>
>
>
> Pumping cooled water over a break in the Canal back into the Circuit
> is energy cheap!  You only need to pump a megaton of water 1 inch
> high over the Lip!
>
>
>
>
>
> Sterling Engines convert Heat to Motion, and Generators convert
> Motion to Electricity!
>
> Sterling Engines are simple and EFFICIENT!
>
>
> TEMP DIFFERENCE ___________________
>
> AVG. TEMP KELVIN
>
>
>
> Or roughly 60/300 = 20% OF HEAT CONVERTED TO MOTION
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Transferring HEAT from the HOT WATER BODY into the STERLINE ENGINE is
> easy!
>
> HOT STREAM >> HEAT SINK FINS >> COOL WATER >> PUMP
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> __________________________________________|__________
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Cooling the STERLINE ENGINE is easy!   It has 1 COLD PISTON TOO!
> Evaporation Water Tanks or MISTING FANS are IDEAL!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> POWER STATION RUNS 24/7 FROM SOLAR!
>
> So what are you waiting for?  GET THOSE STERLINE ENGINES RUNNING ON
> BOILING AND ICY WATER!  DIG THOSE TRENCHES AND LINE THEM WITH
> PLASTIC!  THE FREE ENERGEY WORLD IS HERE!
>

This is no more free than any other source. Even coal in the ground is 
free. The costs relate to making use of one's energy source. Trenches 
cost money to dig. Stirling engines cost money to make and maintain. 
Until you have credible costings, you aren't offering anything.

Sylvia.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#610390 — Re: *FREE POWER FROM THE SUN* ~~~~~~~~~~~~ perspex covered Lake at 75 oC

Fromgrahamcooper7@gmail.com
Date2016-12-26 00:02 -0800
SubjectRe: *FREE POWER FROM THE SUN* ~~~~~~~~~~~~ perspex covered Lake at 75 oC
Message-ID<f063e4a1-f59d-4386-8be7-c49d096b06a7@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#610375
On Sunday, December 25, 2016 at 6:15:24 PM UTC-8, Sylvia Else wrote:
> On 26/12/2016 12:47 PM, grahamcooper7@gmail.com wrote:
> > Water has a very high thermal capacity!
> >
> > 4.2 joules per degree per gram
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Moving Hot Water across a large body of water is energy cheap!
> >
> > ==Tap |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| |_______________________|===Tap
> > <-----------X--------->
> >
> > The mass of water moved doesn't matter, the entire body will
> > self-organize into a lower equilibrium state, whether the Canal is 1
> > meter long or 10 kilometers long!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Pumping cooled water over a break in the Canal back into the Circuit
> > is energy cheap!  You only need to pump a megaton of water 1 inch
> > high over the Lip!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Sterling Engines convert Heat to Motion, and Generators convert
> > Motion to Electricity!
> >
> > Sterling Engines are simple and EFFICIENT!
> >
> >
> > TEMP DIFFERENCE ___________________
> >
> > AVG. TEMP KELVIN
> >
> >
> >
> > Or roughly 60/300 = 20% OF HEAT CONVERTED TO MOTION
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Transferring HEAT from the HOT WATER BODY into the STERLINE ENGINE is
> > easy!
> >
> > HOT STREAM >> HEAT SINK FINS >> COOL WATER >> PUMP
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > __________________________________________|__________
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Cooling the STERLINE ENGINE is easy!   It has 1 COLD PISTON TOO!
> > Evaporation Water Tanks or MISTING FANS are IDEAL!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > POWER STATION RUNS 24/7 FROM SOLAR!
> >
> > So what are you waiting for?  GET THOSE STERLINE ENGINES RUNNING ON
> > BOILING AND ICY WATER!  DIG THOSE TRENCHES AND LINE THEM WITH
> > PLASTIC!  THE FREE ENERGEY WORLD IS HERE!
> >
> 
> This is no more free than any other source. Even coal in the ground is 
> free. The costs relate to making use of one's energy source. Trenches 
> cost money to dig. Stirling engines cost money to make and maintain. 
> Until you have credible costings, you aren't offering anything.
> 
> Sylvia.

Hi Sylvia!

The Costs are simple!

Massive Solar Array is 10X cost of Coal Power in the first 5 years.

A sheet of plastic 1m2 is 1/10,000 the cost of a solar panel!

the beauty is....  24 HOURS OPERATION... the water temp drops only 10 degrees overnite!  

NO BATTERY REQUIRED!




During Extended cloud cover use up Hydrogen Stores by Electrolysis of Water from the Sterling Generator.

MAKE HAY WHEN THE SUNSHINES!

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#610396 — Re: *FREE POWER FROM THE SUN* ~~~~~~~~~~~~ perspex covered Lake at 75 oC

FromSylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address>
Date2016-12-26 23:16 +1100
SubjectRe: *FREE POWER FROM THE SUN* ~~~~~~~~~~~~ perspex covered Lake at 75 oC
Message-ID<eccg0bF11haU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#610390
On 26/12/2016 7:02 PM, grahamcooper7@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, December 25, 2016 at 6:15:24 PM UTC-8, Sylvia Else wrote:
>> On 26/12/2016 12:47 PM, grahamcooper7@gmail.com wrote:
>>> Water has a very high thermal capacity!
>>>
>>> 4.2 joules per degree per gram
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Moving Hot Water across a large body of water is energy cheap!
>>>
>>> ==Tap |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| |_______________________|===Tap
>>> <-----------X--------->
>>>
>>> The mass of water moved doesn't matter, the entire body will
>>> self-organize into a lower equilibrium state, whether the Canal is 1
>>> meter long or 10 kilometers long!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Pumping cooled water over a break in the Canal back into the Circuit
>>> is energy cheap!  You only need to pump a megaton of water 1 inch
>>> high over the Lip!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sterling Engines convert Heat to Motion, and Generators convert
>>> Motion to Electricity!
>>>
>>> Sterling Engines are simple and EFFICIENT!
>>>
>>>
>>> TEMP DIFFERENCE ___________________
>>>
>>> AVG. TEMP KELVIN
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Or roughly 60/300 = 20% OF HEAT CONVERTED TO MOTION
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Transferring HEAT from the HOT WATER BODY into the STERLINE ENGINE is
>>> easy!
>>>
>>> HOT STREAM >> HEAT SINK FINS >> COOL WATER >> PUMP
>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>> __________________________________________|__________
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Cooling the STERLINE ENGINE is easy!   It has 1 COLD PISTON TOO!
>>> Evaporation Water Tanks or MISTING FANS are IDEAL!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> POWER STATION RUNS 24/7 FROM SOLAR!
>>>
>>> So what are you waiting for?  GET THOSE STERLINE ENGINES RUNNING ON
>>> BOILING AND ICY WATER!  DIG THOSE TRENCHES AND LINE THEM WITH
>>> PLASTIC!  THE FREE ENERGEY WORLD IS HERE!
>>>
>>
>> This is no more free than any other source. Even coal in the ground is
>> free. The costs relate to making use of one's energy source. Trenches
>> cost money to dig. Stirling engines cost money to make and maintain.
>> Until you have credible costings, you aren't offering anything.
>>
>> Sylvia.
>
> Hi Sylvia!
>
> The Costs are simple!
>
> Massive Solar Array is 10X cost of Coal Power in the first 5 years.
>
> A sheet of plastic 1m2 is 1/10,000 the cost of a solar panel!

But how much electricity to you get out of it?
>
> the beauty is....  24 HOURS OPERATION... the water temp drops only 10 degrees overnite!
>
> NO BATTERY REQUIRED!

>
>
>
>
> During Extended cloud cover use up Hydrogen Stores by Electrolysis of Water from the Sterling Generator.

So you need a way to store hydrogen in large quantities. Compressing it 
wastes energy, but storing it at atmospheric pressure raises other cost 
issues.

How will you recover the energy from the hydrogen later? Burning it and 
using the heat to run the sterling generator is one way, but it also 
wastes energy. Fuel cells are better, but they represent an additional cost.

It's an interesting idea, but so far it's just hand-waving.

You need to do the math - how do the economics actually work out?

Sylvia.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#610414 — Re: *FREE POWER FROM THE SUN* ~~~~~~~~~~~~ perspex covered Lake at 75 oC

Frombenj <benj@nobody.net>
Date2016-12-26 16:47 -0500
SubjectRe: *FREE POWER FROM THE SUN* ~~~~~~~~~~~~ perspex covered Lake at 75 oC
Message-ID<58619006$0$51688$c3e8da3$f6268168@news.astraweb.com>
In reply to#610396
On 12/26/2016 7:16 AM, Sylvia Else wrote:
> On 26/12/2016 7:02 PM, grahamcooper7@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Sunday, December 25, 2016 at 6:15:24 PM UTC-8, Sylvia Else wrote:
>>> On 26/12/2016 12:47 PM, grahamcooper7@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> Water has a very high thermal capacity!
>>>>
>>>> 4.2 joules per degree per gram
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Moving Hot Water across a large body of water is energy cheap!
>>>>
>>>> ==Tap |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| |_______________________|===Tap
>>>> <-----------X--------->
>>>>
>>>> The mass of water moved doesn't matter, the entire body will
>>>> self-organize into a lower equilibrium state, whether the Canal is 1
>>>> meter long or 10 kilometers long!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Pumping cooled water over a break in the Canal back into the Circuit
>>>> is energy cheap!  You only need to pump a megaton of water 1 inch
>>>> high over the Lip!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sterling Engines convert Heat to Motion, and Generators convert
>>>> Motion to Electricity!
>>>>
>>>> Sterling Engines are simple and EFFICIENT!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> TEMP DIFFERENCE ___________________
>>>>
>>>> AVG. TEMP KELVIN
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Or roughly 60/300 = 20% OF HEAT CONVERTED TO MOTION
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Transferring HEAT from the HOT WATER BODY into the STERLINE ENGINE is
>>>> easy!
>>>>
>>>> HOT STREAM >> HEAT SINK FINS >> COOL WATER >> PUMP
>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>> __________________________________________|__________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Cooling the STERLINE ENGINE is easy!   It has 1 COLD PISTON TOO!
>>>> Evaporation Water Tanks or MISTING FANS are IDEAL!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> POWER STATION RUNS 24/7 FROM SOLAR!
>>>>
>>>> So what are you waiting for?  GET THOSE STERLINE ENGINES RUNNING ON
>>>> BOILING AND ICY WATER!  DIG THOSE TRENCHES AND LINE THEM WITH
>>>> PLASTIC!  THE FREE ENERGEY WORLD IS HERE!
>>>>
>>>
>>> This is no more free than any other source. Even coal in the ground is
>>> free. The costs relate to making use of one's energy source. Trenches
>>> cost money to dig. Stirling engines cost money to make and maintain.
>>> Until you have credible costings, you aren't offering anything.
>>>
>>> Sylvia.
>>
>> Hi Sylvia!
>>
>> The Costs are simple!
>>
>> Massive Solar Array is 10X cost of Coal Power in the first 5 years.
>>
>> A sheet of plastic 1m2 is 1/10,000 the cost of a solar panel!
>
> But how much electricity to you get out of it?
>>
>> the beauty is....  24 HOURS OPERATION... the water temp drops only 10
>> degrees overnite!
>>
>> NO BATTERY REQUIRED!
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> During Extended cloud cover use up Hydrogen Stores by Electrolysis of
>> Water from the Sterling Generator.
>
> So you need a way to store hydrogen in large quantities. Compressing it
> wastes energy, but storing it at atmospheric pressure raises other cost
> issues.
>
> How will you recover the energy from the hydrogen later? Burning it and
> using the heat to run the sterling generator is one way, but it also
> wastes energy. Fuel cells are better, but they represent an additional
> cost.
>
> It's an interesting idea, but so far it's just hand-waving.
>
> You need to do the math - how do the economics actually work out?
>
> Sylvia.

Come on Sylvia, Lib greens don't do science and especially not math. In 
fact they don't even to quantity. They are a "idea men". They give you 
the BIG ideas as to how to solve the world's problems and it's up to you 
nerds to work out the practical details. Got it?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#610435 — Re: *FREE POWER FROM THE SUN* ~~~~~~~~~~~~ perspex covered Lake at 75 oC

Fromgrahamcooper7@gmail.com
Date2016-12-26 15:30 -0800
SubjectRe: *FREE POWER FROM THE SUN* ~~~~~~~~~~~~ perspex covered Lake at 75 oC
Message-ID<cba83dfc-1d4e-453f-8b78-0921af9a6010@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#610396
On Monday, December 26, 2016 at 4:16:15 AM UTC-8, Sylvia Else wrote:
> On 26/12/2016 7:02 PM, grahamcooper7@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Sunday, December 25, 2016 at 6:15:24 PM UTC-8, Sylvia Else wrote:
> >> On 26/12/2016 12:47 PM, grahamcooper7@gmail.com wrote:
> >>> Water has a very high thermal capacity!
> >>>
> >>> 4.2 joules per degree per gram
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Moving Hot Water across a large body of water is energy cheap!
> >>>
> >>> ==Tap |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| |_______________________|===Tap
> >>> <-----------X--------->
> >>>
> >>> The mass of water moved doesn't matter, the entire body will
> >>> self-organize into a lower equilibrium state, whether the Canal is 1
> >>> meter long or 10 kilometers long!
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Pumping cooled water over a break in the Canal back into the Circuit
> >>> is energy cheap!  You only need to pump a megaton of water 1 inch
> >>> high over the Lip!
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Sterling Engines convert Heat to Motion, and Generators convert
> >>> Motion to Electricity!
> >>>
> >>> Sterling Engines are simple and EFFICIENT!
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> TEMP DIFFERENCE ___________________
> >>>
> >>> AVG. TEMP KELVIN
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Or roughly 60/300 = 20% OF HEAT CONVERTED TO MOTION
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Transferring HEAT from the HOT WATER BODY into the STERLINE ENGINE is
> >>> easy!
> >>>
> >>> HOT STREAM >> HEAT SINK FINS >> COOL WATER >> PUMP
> >>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >>> __________________________________________|__________
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Cooling the STERLINE ENGINE is easy!   It has 1 COLD PISTON TOO!
> >>> Evaporation Water Tanks or MISTING FANS are IDEAL!
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> POWER STATION RUNS 24/7 FROM SOLAR!
> >>>
> >>> So what are you waiting for?  GET THOSE STERLINE ENGINES RUNNING ON
> >>> BOILING AND ICY WATER!  DIG THOSE TRENCHES AND LINE THEM WITH
> >>> PLASTIC!  THE FREE ENERGEY WORLD IS HERE!
> >>>
> >>
> >> This is no more free than any other source. Even coal in the ground is
> >> free. The costs relate to making use of one's energy source. Trenches
> >> cost money to dig. Stirling engines cost money to make and maintain.
> >> Until you have credible costings, you aren't offering anything.
> >>
> >> Sylvia.
> >
> > Hi Sylvia!
> >
> > The Costs are simple!
> >
> > Massive Solar Array is 10X cost of Coal Power in the first 5 years.
> >
> > A sheet of plastic 1m2 is 1/10,000 the cost of a solar panel!
> 
> But how much electricity to you get out of it?
> >
> > the beauty is....  24 HOURS OPERATION... the water temp drops only 10 degrees overnite!
> >
> > NO BATTERY REQUIRED!
> 
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > During Extended cloud cover use up Hydrogen Stores by Electrolysis of Water from the Sterling Generator.
> 
> So you need a way to store hydrogen in large quantities. Compressing it 
> wastes energy, but storing it at atmospheric pressure raises other cost 
> issues.
> 
> How will you recover the energy from the hydrogen later? Burning it and 
> using the heat to run the sterling generator is one way, but it also 
> wastes energy. Fuel cells are better, but they represent an additional cost.
> 
> It's an interesting idea, but so far it's just hand-waving.
> 
> You need to do the math - how do the economics actually work out?
> 
> Sylvia.



There is only 1 Variable left, how much COOLER the hot stream becomes after passing through the HEAT SINK FINS (working in reverse)

I think a low pitch Engine Cylinder, wide as a circular Spa and only 1 meter movement, with a smaller flywheel, a lot faster than a long cylinder.

the Cold piston pumps low pressure cool air into the hot pistons cylinder (and Visa Versa)
so the heating fins should remain about 50oC.


STREAMS ENTER HEAT SINKS

COLD WATER  ....... HOT WATER
  10oC                70oc

COOLING FINS ... HEATING FINS
    20oC               50oC


So if you can cool the hot stream by 20 degrees you get

1KM CANAL CIRCUIT X 10M X 1M DEEP
10,000 TONNES X 20DEGREES X 4.2 X 1000000GRAMS X 10% EFFICIENCY X 50% ELECTRICAL EFFICIENCY

5% x 20 CANCEL OUT!

42,000,000,000 JOULES (per canal full circle pump)


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#610448 — Re: *FREE POWER FROM THE SUN* ~~~~~~~~~~~~ perspex covered Lake at 75 oC

FromSylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address>
Date2016-12-27 11:58 +1100
SubjectRe: *FREE POWER FROM THE SUN* ~~~~~~~~~~~~ perspex covered Lake at 75 oC
Message-ID<ecdslgFb9ucU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#610435
On 27/12/2016 10:30 AM, grahamcooper7@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, December 26, 2016 at 4:16:15 AM UTC-8, Sylvia Else wrote:
>> On 26/12/2016 7:02 PM, grahamcooper7@gmail.com wrote:
>>> On Sunday, December 25, 2016 at 6:15:24 PM UTC-8, Sylvia Else wrote:
>>>> On 26/12/2016 12:47 PM, grahamcooper7@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>> Water has a very high thermal capacity!
>>>>>
>>>>> 4.2 joules per degree per gram
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Moving Hot Water across a large body of water is energy cheap!
>>>>>
>>>>> ==Tap |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| |_______________________|===Tap
>>>>> <-----------X--------->
>>>>>
>>>>> The mass of water moved doesn't matter, the entire body will
>>>>> self-organize into a lower equilibrium state, whether the Canal is 1
>>>>> meter long or 10 kilometers long!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Pumping cooled water over a break in the Canal back into the Circuit
>>>>> is energy cheap!  You only need to pump a megaton of water 1 inch
>>>>> high over the Lip!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sterling Engines convert Heat to Motion, and Generators convert
>>>>> Motion to Electricity!
>>>>>
>>>>> Sterling Engines are simple and EFFICIENT!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> TEMP DIFFERENCE ___________________
>>>>>
>>>>> AVG. TEMP KELVIN
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Or roughly 60/300 = 20% OF HEAT CONVERTED TO MOTION
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Transferring HEAT from the HOT WATER BODY into the STERLINE ENGINE is
>>>>> easy!
>>>>>
>>>>> HOT STREAM >> HEAT SINK FINS >> COOL WATER >> PUMP
>>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>>> __________________________________________|__________
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Cooling the STERLINE ENGINE is easy!   It has 1 COLD PISTON TOO!
>>>>> Evaporation Water Tanks or MISTING FANS are IDEAL!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> POWER STATION RUNS 24/7 FROM SOLAR!
>>>>>
>>>>> So what are you waiting for?  GET THOSE STERLINE ENGINES RUNNING ON
>>>>> BOILING AND ICY WATER!  DIG THOSE TRENCHES AND LINE THEM WITH
>>>>> PLASTIC!  THE FREE ENERGEY WORLD IS HERE!
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This is no more free than any other source. Even coal in the ground is
>>>> free. The costs relate to making use of one's energy source. Trenches
>>>> cost money to dig. Stirling engines cost money to make and maintain.
>>>> Until you have credible costings, you aren't offering anything.
>>>>
>>>> Sylvia.
>>>
>>> Hi Sylvia!
>>>
>>> The Costs are simple!
>>>
>>> Massive Solar Array is 10X cost of Coal Power in the first 5 years.
>>>
>>> A sheet of plastic 1m2 is 1/10,000 the cost of a solar panel!
>>
>> But how much electricity to you get out of it?
>>>
>>> the beauty is....  24 HOURS OPERATION... the water temp drops only 10 degrees overnite!
>>>
>>> NO BATTERY REQUIRED!
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> During Extended cloud cover use up Hydrogen Stores by Electrolysis of Water from the Sterling Generator.
>>
>> So you need a way to store hydrogen in large quantities. Compressing it
>> wastes energy, but storing it at atmospheric pressure raises other cost
>> issues.
>>
>> How will you recover the energy from the hydrogen later? Burning it and
>> using the heat to run the sterling generator is one way, but it also
>> wastes energy. Fuel cells are better, but they represent an additional cost.
>>
>> It's an interesting idea, but so far it's just hand-waving.
>>
>> You need to do the math - how do the economics actually work out?
>>
>> Sylvia.
>
>
>
> There is only 1 Variable left, how much COOLER the hot stream becomes after passing through the HEAT SINK FINS (working in reverse)
>
> I think a low pitch Engine Cylinder, wide as a circular Spa and only 1 meter movement, with a smaller flywheel, a lot faster than a long cylinder.
>
> the Cold piston pumps low pressure cool air into the hot pistons cylinder (and Visa Versa)
> so the heating fins should remain about 50oC.
>
>
> STREAMS ENTER HEAT SINKS
>
> COLD WATER  ....... HOT WATER
>    10oC                70oc
>
> COOLING FINS ... HEATING FINS
>      20oC               50oC
>
>
> So if you can cool the hot stream by 20 degrees you get
>
> 1KM CANAL CIRCUIT X 10M X 1M DEEP
> 10,000 TONNES X 20DEGREES X 4.2 X 1000000GRAMS X 10% EFFICIENCY X 50% ELECTRICAL EFFICIENCY
>
> 5% x 20 CANCEL OUT!
>
> 42,000,000,000 JOULES (per canal full circle pump)
>
>


Or about 12MWh per circle.

But how much does this cost? There are many ways of generating 
electricity that work perfectly well from a physics point of view, but 
which are hopelessly uneconomic in practice.

Sylvia.

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#610457 — Re: *FREE POWER FROM THE SUN* ~~~~~~~~~~~~ perspex covered Lake at 75 oC

Fromgrahamcooper7@gmail.com
Date2016-12-26 18:30 -0800
SubjectRe: *FREE POWER FROM THE SUN* ~~~~~~~~~~~~ perspex covered Lake at 75 oC
Message-ID<d866f206-8d02-435a-9c75-2e8ad10bb90e@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#610448
On Monday, December 26, 2016 at 4:58:29 PM UTC-8, Sylvia Else wrote:
> On 27/12/2016 10:30 AM, grahamcooper7@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Monday, December 26, 2016 at 4:16:15 AM UTC-8, Sylvia Else wrote:
> >> On 26/12/2016 7:02 PM, grahamcooper7@gmail.com wrote:
> >>> On Sunday, December 25, 2016 at 6:15:24 PM UTC-8, Sylvia Else wrote:
> >>>> On 26/12/2016 12:47 PM, grahamcooper7@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>>> Water has a very high thermal capacity!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 4.2 joules per degree per gram
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Moving Hot Water across a large body of water is energy cheap!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ==Tap |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| |_______________________|===Tap
> >>>>> <-----------X--------->
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The mass of water moved doesn't matter, the entire body will
> >>>>> self-organize into a lower equilibrium state, whether the Canal is 1
> >>>>> meter long or 10 kilometers long!
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Pumping cooled water over a break in the Canal back into the Circuit
> >>>>> is energy cheap!  You only need to pump a megaton of water 1 inch
> >>>>> high over the Lip!
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Sterling Engines convert Heat to Motion, and Generators convert
> >>>>> Motion to Electricity!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Sterling Engines are simple and EFFICIENT!
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> TEMP DIFFERENCE ___________________
> >>>>>
> >>>>> AVG. TEMP KELVIN
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Or roughly 60/300 = 20% OF HEAT CONVERTED TO MOTION
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Transferring HEAT from the HOT WATER BODY into the STERLINE ENGINE is
> >>>>> easy!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> HOT STREAM >> HEAT SINK FINS >> COOL WATER >> PUMP
> >>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >>>>> __________________________________________|__________
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Cooling the STERLINE ENGINE is easy!   It has 1 COLD PISTON TOO!
> >>>>> Evaporation Water Tanks or MISTING FANS are IDEAL!
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> POWER STATION RUNS 24/7 FROM SOLAR!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> So what are you waiting for?  GET THOSE STERLINE ENGINES RUNNING ON
> >>>>> BOILING AND ICY WATER!  DIG THOSE TRENCHES AND LINE THEM WITH
> >>>>> PLASTIC!  THE FREE ENERGEY WORLD IS HERE!
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> This is no more free than any other source. Even coal in the ground is
> >>>> free. The costs relate to making use of one's energy source. Trenches
> >>>> cost money to dig. Stirling engines cost money to make and maintain.
> >>>> Until you have credible costings, you aren't offering anything.
> >>>>
> >>>> Sylvia.
> >>>
> >>> Hi Sylvia!
> >>>
> >>> The Costs are simple!
> >>>
> >>> Massive Solar Array is 10X cost of Coal Power in the first 5 years.
> >>>
> >>> A sheet of plastic 1m2 is 1/10,000 the cost of a solar panel!
> >>
> >> But how much electricity to you get out of it?
> >>>
> >>> the beauty is....  24 HOURS OPERATION... the water temp drops only 10 degrees overnite!
> >>>
> >>> NO BATTERY REQUIRED!
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> During Extended cloud cover use up Hydrogen Stores by Electrolysis of Water from the Sterling Generator.
> >>
> >> So you need a way to store hydrogen in large quantities. Compressing it
> >> wastes energy, but storing it at atmospheric pressure raises other cost
> >> issues.
> >>
> >> How will you recover the energy from the hydrogen later? Burning it and
> >> using the heat to run the sterling generator is one way, but it also
> >> wastes energy. Fuel cells are better, but they represent an additional cost.
> >>
> >> It's an interesting idea, but so far it's just hand-waving.
> >>
> >> You need to do the math - how do the economics actually work out?
> >>
> >> Sylvia.
> >
> >
> >
> > There is only 1 Variable left, how much COOLER the hot stream becomes after passing through the HEAT SINK FINS (working in reverse)
> >
> > I think a low pitch Engine Cylinder, wide as a circular Spa and only 1 meter movement, with a smaller flywheel, a lot faster than a long cylinder.
> >
> > the Cold piston pumps low pressure cool air into the hot pistons cylinder (and Visa Versa)
> > so the heating fins should remain about 50oC.
> >
> >
> > STREAMS ENTER HEAT SINKS
> >
> > COLD WATER  ....... HOT WATER
> >    10oC                70oc
> >
> > COOLING FINS ... HEATING FINS
> >      20oC               50oC
> >
> >
> > So if you can cool the hot stream by 20 degrees you get
> >
> > 1KM CANAL CIRCUIT X 10M X 1M DEEP
> > 10,000 TONNES X 20DEGREES X 4.2 X 1000000GRAMS X 10% EFFICIENCY X 50% ELECTRICAL EFFICIENCY
> >
> > 5% x 20 CANCEL OUT!
> >
> > 42,000,000,000 JOULES (per canal full circle pump)
> >
> >
> 
> 
> Or about 12MWh per circle.
> 
> But how much does this cost? There are many ways of generating 
> electricity that work perfectly well from a physics point of view, but 
> which are hopelessly uneconomic in practice.
> 
> Sylvia.



An off the Shelf Sterling engine wont run on hot water.

Plastic disc (cork) piston inside a short polished metal cylinder has fairly low friction

Here is one that runs on Body Heat!



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-mKP9E6a6I

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