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Does a capital ship sinking actually SUCK a swimmer down to drown?

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  Does a capital ship sinking actually SUCK a swimmer down to drown? "M. Stradbury" <mstradbury@example.com> - 2015-12-22 00:04 +0000
    Re: Does a capital ship sinking actually SUCK a swimmer down to drown? Tony Hwang <dragon40@shaw.ca> - 2015-12-21 18:51 -0700
      Re: Does a capital ship sinking actually SUCK a swimmer down to drown? Micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> - 2015-12-21 20:58 -0500
      Re: Does a capital ship sinking actually SUCK a swimmer down to drown? Sam E <why.should.this@be.email.invalid> - 2015-12-21 22:10 -0600
      Re: Does a capital ship sinking actually SUCK a swimmer down to drown? "M. Stradbury" <mstradbury@example.com> - 2015-12-22 04:31 +0000
        Re: Does a capital ship sinking actually SUCK a swimmer down to drown? "Bob F" <bobnospam@gmail.com> - 2015-12-22 08:19 -0800
          Re: Does a capital ship sinking actually SUCK a swimmer down to drown? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-12-22 17:45 +0100
            Re: Does a capital ship sinking actually SUCK a swimmer down to drown? "taxed and spent" <pleasedonot@spamme.com> - 2015-12-22 09:39 -0800
          Re: Does a capital ship sinking actually SUCK a swimmer down to drown? Micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> - 2015-12-23 03:08 -0500
            Re: Does a capital ship sinking actually SUCK a swimmer down to drown? dvus <dven1@adelphia.net> - 2015-12-23 05:23 -0500
              Re: Does a capital ship sinking actually SUCK a swimmer down to drown? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-12-23 12:27 +0100
            Re: Does a capital ship sinking actually SUCK a swimmer down to drown? "Bob F" <bobnospam@gmail.com> - 2015-12-23 05:40 -0800
    Re: Does a capital ship sinking actually SUCK a swimmer down to drown? Micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> - 2015-12-21 20:56 -0500
      Re: Does a capital ship sinking actually SUCK a swimmer down to drown? Tony Hwang <dragon40@shaw.ca> - 2015-12-21 19:02 -0700
        Re: Does a capital ship sinking actually SUCK a swimmer down to drown? Micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> - 2015-12-21 22:13 -0500
          Re: Does a capital ship sinking actually SUCK a swimmer down to drown? Tony Hwang <dragon40@shaw.ca> - 2015-12-21 20:47 -0700
            Re: Does a capital ship sinking actually SUCK a swimmer down to drown? Micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> - 2015-12-21 23:00 -0500
        Re: Does a capital ship sinking actually SUCK a swimmer down to drown? pnalsing@gmail.com - 2015-12-21 19:38 -0800
      Re: Does a capital ship sinking actually SUCK a swimmer down to drown? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-12-22 10:18 +0100
        Re: Does a capital ship sinking actually SUCK a swimmer down to drown? Micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> - 2015-12-22 05:04 -0500
    Re: Does a capital ship sinking actually SUCK a swimmer down to drown? Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-12-22 14:51 +1100
      Re: Does a capital ship sinking actually SUCK a swimmer down to drown? Tony Hwang <dragon40@shaw.ca> - 2015-12-21 21:06 -0700
        Re: Does a capital ship sinking actually SUCK a swimmer down to drown? Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-12-22 16:13 +1100
          Re: Does a capital ship sinking actually SUCK a swimmer down to drown? Tony Hwang <dragon40@shaw.ca> - 2015-12-21 22:19 -0700
            Re: Does a capital ship sinking actually SUCK a swimmer down to drown? Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-12-22 18:58 +1100
              Re: Does a capital ship sinking actually SUCK a swimmer down to drown? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-12-22 11:06 +0100
                Re: Does a capital ship sinking actually SUCK a swimmer down to drown? Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-12-22 22:13 +1100
                  Re: Does a capital ship sinking actually SUCK a swimmer down to drown? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-12-22 12:45 +0100
                  Re: Does a capital ship sinking actually SUCK a swimmer down to drown? jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-12-22 19:05 +0000
                    Re: Does a capital ship sinking actually SUCK a swimmer down to drown? "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2015-12-22 13:19 -0800
      Re: Does a capital ship sinking actually SUCK a swimmer down to drown? "M. Stradbury" <mstradbury@example.com> - 2015-12-22 04:36 +0000
        Re: Does a capital ship sinking actually SUCK a swimmer down to drown? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-12-22 11:13 +0100
          Re: Does a capital ship sinking actually SUCK a swimmer down to drown? Micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> - 2015-12-22 06:07 -0500
      Re: Does a capital ship sinking actually SUCK a swimmer down to drown? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-12-22 10:36 +0100
      Re: Does a capital ship sinking actually SUCK a swimmer down to drown? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-12-22 14:04 +0100
      Re: Does a capital ship sinking actually SUCK a swimmer down to drown? "taxed and spent" <pleasedonot@spamme.com> - 2015-12-22 05:08 -0800
    Re: Does a capital ship sinking actually SUCK a swimmer down to drown? O <OG@AIOESPAM.COM> - 2015-12-21 22:06 -0800
      Re: Does a capital ship sinking actually SUCK a swimmer down to drown? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-12-22 11:18 +0100
    Re: Does a capital ship sinking actually SUCK a swimmer down to drown? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-12-22 10:10 +0100
    Re: Does a capital ship sinking actually SUCK a swimmer down to drown? "(PeteCresswell)" <x@y.Invalid> - 2015-12-22 08:53 -0500
      Re: Does a capital ship sinking actually SUCK a swimmer down to drown? "M. Stradbury" <mstradbury@example.com> - 2015-12-22 14:28 +0000
        Re: Does a capital ship sinking actually SUCK a swimmer down to drown? "(PeteCresswell)" <x@y.Invalid> - 2015-12-22 11:41 -0500
          Re: Does a capital ship sinking actually SUCK a swimmer down to drown? "M. Stradbury" <mstradbury@example.com> - 2015-12-22 21:50 +0000
            Re: Does a capital ship sinking actually SUCK a swimmer down to drown? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-12-22 23:06 +0100
              Re: Does a capital ship sinking actually SUCK a swimmer down to drown? MJC <gravity@mjcoon.plus.com> - 2015-12-22 23:07 +0000
                Re: Does a capital ship sinking actually SUCK a swimmer down to drown? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-12-23 07:35 +0100
                  Re: Does a capital ship sinking actually SUCK a swimmer down to drown? "Robert Green" <robert_green1963@yah00.com> - 2015-12-23 13:31 -0500
                    Re: Does a capital ship sinking actually SUCK a swimmer down to drown? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-12-23 19:51 +0100
            Re: Does a capital ship sinking actually SUCK a swimmer down to drown? Tony Hwang <dragon40@shaw.ca> - 2015-12-22 16:25 -0700
              Re: Does a capital ship sinking actually SUCK a swimmer down to drown? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-12-23 07:43 +0100
    Re: Does a capital ship sinking actually SUCK a swimmer down to drown? Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2015-12-22 10:52 -0500
    Re: Does a capital ship sinking actually SUCK a swimmer down to drown? "Bob F" <bobnospam@gmail.com> - 2015-12-22 08:16 -0800

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#540745

On 22/12/2015 11:04 AM, M. Stradbury wrote:
> Is it true (or an urban myth) that a swimmer would be sucked
> under (presumably to drown) when a capital ship sinks?
>

Mythbusters tried it, and concluded that there was no significant 
sucking sown.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvU_dkKdZ0U

Sylvia.

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#540748

Sylvia Else wrote:
> On 22/12/2015 11:04 AM, M. Stradbury wrote:
>> Is it true (or an urban myth) that a swimmer would be sucked
>> under (presumably to drown) when a capital ship sinks?
>>
>
> Mythbusters tried it, and concluded that there was no significant
> sucking sown.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvU_dkKdZ0U
>
> Sylvia.

So when ship is abandoned, crews jump off the ship, they hang around the 
sinking ship, right? They always swim away from the ship as much as
they can.  Ask any sailors.

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#540761

On 22/12/2015 3:06 PM, Tony Hwang wrote:
> Sylvia Else wrote:
>> On 22/12/2015 11:04 AM, M. Stradbury wrote:
>>> Is it true (or an urban myth) that a swimmer would be sucked
>>> under (presumably to drown) when a capital ship sinks?
>>>
>>
>> Mythbusters tried it, and concluded that there was no significant
>> sucking sown.
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvU_dkKdZ0U
>>
>> Sylvia.
>
> So when ship is abandoned, crews jump off the ship, they hang around the
> sinking ship, right? They always swim away from the ship as much as
> they can.  Ask any sailors.

That's rather circular.

There is a wide spread belief that one can get sucked down, and there's 
no reason to think sailors have any better knowledge of this than anyone 
else - it's hardly something most will ever experience - consequently 
one would expect them to swim away.

Anyway, sucking people down is not the only possible hazard represented 
by a sinking ship.

Sylvia.

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#540762

Sylvia Else wrote:
> On 22/12/2015 3:06 PM, Tony Hwang wrote:
>> Sylvia Else wrote:
>>> On 22/12/2015 11:04 AM, M. Stradbury wrote:
>>>> Is it true (or an urban myth) that a swimmer would be sucked
>>>> under (presumably to drown) when a capital ship sinks?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Mythbusters tried it, and concluded that there was no significant
>>> sucking sown.
>>>
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvU_dkKdZ0U
>>>
>>> Sylvia.
>>
>> So when ship is abandoned, crews jump off the ship, they hang around the
>> sinking ship, right? They always swim away from the ship as much as
>> they can.  Ask any sailors.
>
> That's rather circular.
>
> There is a wide spread belief that one can get sucked down, and there's
> no reason to think sailors have any better knowledge of this than anyone
> else - it's hardly something most will ever experience - consequently
> one would expect them to swim away.
>
> Anyway, sucking people down is not the only possible hazard represented
> by a sinking ship.
>
> Sylvia.

Do you have any maritime experience? Worked on any kind of ocean going 
vessel(s)? Possess any knowledge gained from real life experience?

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#540769

On 22/12/2015 4:19 PM, Tony Hwang wrote:
>
> Do you have any maritime experience? Worked on any kind of ocean
> going vessel(s)? Possess any knowledge gained from real life
> experience?

Experience of ships? No. How would any of that help in deciding whether 
the vessel would suck me down if it sank?

Or do you think there's some sort of mechanism that allows enlightenment 
by osmosis?

Sylvia.

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#540777

Dne 22/12/2015 v 08:58 Sylvia Else napsal(a):
> On 22/12/2015 4:19 PM, Tony Hwang wrote:
>>
>> Do you have any maritime experience? Worked on any kind of ocean
>> going vessel(s)? Possess any knowledge gained from real life
>> experience?
> 
> Experience of ships? No. How would any of that help in deciding whether 
> the vessel would suck me down if it sank?
> 
> Or do you think there's some sort of mechanism that allows enlightenment 
> by osmosis?
> 

Nautical society has advantage of collective experience
of huge number of people, surviving the ship sinking.

Even if I had been Nobel laureate for physics,
sailors would know more about surviving on sea than me.

If personalizing,
Sea has already laughed to many theoretical thoughts.

-- 
Poutnik ( the Czech word for a wanderer )

Knowledge makes great men humble, but small men arrogant.

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#540783

On 22/12/2015 9:06 PM, Poutnik wrote:
> Dne 22/12/2015 v 08:58 Sylvia Else napsal(a):
>> On 22/12/2015 4:19 PM, Tony Hwang wrote:
>>>
>>> Do you have any maritime experience? Worked on any kind of ocean
>>> going vessel(s)? Possess any knowledge gained from real life
>>> experience?
>>
>> Experience of ships? No. How would any of that help in deciding whether
>> the vessel would suck me down if it sank?
>>
>> Or do you think there's some sort of mechanism that allows enlightenment
>> by osmosis?
>>
>
> Nautical society has advantage of collective experience
> of huge number of people, surviving the ship sinking.
>
> Even if I had been Nobel laureate for physics,
> sailors would know more about surviving on sea than me.

For most things, perhaps. But how many sailors have experience of a 
sinking, much less such experience from the the immediate vicinity of 
the ship. Those who got sucked down, if any, won't be around to tell the 
tale. Those who didn't get sucked down, and survived, would be 
counter-examples.

Sylvia.

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#540787

Dne 22/12/2015 v 12:13 Sylvia Else napsal(a):
> On 22/12/2015 9:06 PM, Poutnik wrote:

> 
> For most things, perhaps. But how many sailors have experience of a 
> sinking, much less such experience from the the immediate vicinity of 
> the ship. Those who got sucked down, if any, won't be around to tell the 
> tale. Those who didn't get sucked down, and survived, would be 
> counter-examples.

I do not say current sailors, but history
of survival records and withnesses.

There are 2 other options.

Those surviving seeing others being sucked down,
Those being sucked down not enough to die.

-- 
Poutnik ( the Czech word for a wanderer )

Knowledge makes great men humble, but small men arrogant.

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#540855

In sci.physics Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote:
> On 22/12/2015 9:06 PM, Poutnik wrote:
>> Dne 22/12/2015 v 08:58 Sylvia Else napsal(a):
>>> On 22/12/2015 4:19 PM, Tony Hwang wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Do you have any maritime experience? Worked on any kind of ocean
>>>> going vessel(s)? Possess any knowledge gained from real life
>>>> experience?
>>>
>>> Experience of ships? No. How would any of that help in deciding whether
>>> the vessel would suck me down if it sank?
>>>
>>> Or do you think there's some sort of mechanism that allows enlightenment
>>> by osmosis?
>>>
>>
>> Nautical society has advantage of collective experience
>> of huge number of people, surviving the ship sinking.
>>
>> Even if I had been Nobel laureate for physics,
>> sailors would know more about surviving on sea than me.
> 
> For most things, perhaps. But how many sailors have experience of a 
> sinking, much less such experience from the the immediate vicinity of 
> the ship. Those who got sucked down, if any, won't be around to tell the 
> tale. Those who didn't get sucked down, and survived, would be 
> counter-examples.
> 
> Sylvia.

Ever heard of WWI and WWII?

Lots of ships sunk and lots of detailed records.
 

-- 
Jim Pennino

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#540882

On Tuesday, December 22, 2015 at 11:16:06 AM UTC-8, ji...@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
> In sci.physics Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote:
> > On 22/12/2015 9:06 PM, Poutnik wrote:
> >> Dne 22/12/2015 v 08:58 Sylvia Else napsal(a):
> >>> On 22/12/2015 4:19 PM, Tony Hwang wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Do you have any maritime experience? Worked on any kind of ocean
> >>>> going vessel(s)? Possess any knowledge gained from real life
> >>>> experience?
> >>>
> >>> Experience of ships? No. How would any of that help in deciding whether
> >>> the vessel would suck me down if it sank?
> >>>
> >>> Or do you think there's some sort of mechanism that allows enlightenment
> >>> by osmosis?
> >>>
> >>
> >> Nautical society has advantage of collective experience
> >> of huge number of people, surviving the ship sinking.
> >>
> >> Even if I had been Nobel laureate for physics,
> >> sailors would know more about surviving on sea than me.
> > 
> > For most things, perhaps. But how many sailors have experience of a 
> > sinking, much less such experience from the the immediate vicinity of 
> > the ship. Those who got sucked down, if any, won't be around to tell the 
> > tale. Those who didn't get sucked down, and survived, would be 
> > counter-examples.
> > 
> > Sylvia.
> 
> Ever heard of WWI and WWII?
> 
> Lots of ships sunk and lots of detailed records.
>  
> 
> -- 
> Jim Pennino

The deeper your under the less bouyant you are.Think pressure.Every scuba diver knowe this.TreBert 

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#540756

On Tue, 22 Dec 2015 14:51:47 +1100, Sylvia Else wrote:

> Mythbusters tried it, and concluded that there was no significant 
> sucking sown.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvU_dkKdZ0U
> 
> Sylvia.

Nice find!
 
Will a Sinking Ship Suck You Down with It? | MythBusters
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvU_dkKdZ0U

Theory 1:
 Air mixes with water makes the water less dense, hence
 sucking you down.
Theory 2: 
 Cavities in ship causes water to rush into the ship, hence
 sucking you down.
Theory 3: 
 Ship falling down creates a vortex above it, hence
 sucking you down.

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#540778

Dne 22/12/2015 v 05:36 M. Stradbury napsal(a):

> Theory 1:
>  Air mixes with water makes the water less dense, hence
>  sucking you down.

I have seen a video where a boat was in a lab sinked by this way,

in document about the Bermuda triangle,
following the hypothesis
about sudden huge gas release
from the sea bad or underwater vulcanos.

Sinking a swimmer with density close to water
is much easier than sinking a boat.

-- 
Poutnik ( the Czech word for a wanderer )

Knowledge makes great men humble, but small men arrogant.

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#540782

On Tue, 22 Dec 2015 11:13:47 +0100, Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com>
wrote:

>
>Dne 22/12/2015 v 05:36 M. Stradbury napsal(a):
>
>> Theory 1:
>>  Air mixes with water makes the water less dense, hence
>>  sucking you down.
>
>I have seen a video where a boat was in a lab sinked by this way,

I knew a guy who drowned in club soda.  

I think there was a lot of scotch, too. 

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#540775

Dne 22/12/2015 v 04:51 Sylvia Else napsal(a):
> On 22/12/2015 11:04 AM, M. Stradbury wrote:
>> Is it true (or an urban myth) that a swimmer would be sucked
>> under (presumably to drown) when a capital ship sinks?
>>
> 
> Mythbusters tried it, and concluded that there was no significant 
> sucking sown.
> 
I have often the impression their experiments are designed
in the first place rather for the effect,
than to really investigate the nature of phenomena.

E.g. I watched their investigation of economic effect
of frequent switching on/off
the incandescent, fluorescent and LED lights.

They were over focused to refute the obvious nonsense
the light at switching consume more power
than saved by being off, and were successful there.

OTOH, experiment part about saving power
versus shortening device life was very poorly designed
and result had no statistical value.

-- 
Poutnik ( the Czech word for a wanderer )

Knowledge makes great men humble, but small men arrogant.

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#540790

Dne 22/12/2015 v 04:51 Sylvia Else napsal(a):
> On 22/12/2015 11:04 AM, M. Stradbury wrote:
>> Is it true (or an urban myth) that a swimmer would be sucked
>> under (presumably to drown) when a capital ship sinks?
>>
> 
> Mythbusters tried it, and concluded that there was no significant 
> sucking sown.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvU_dkKdZ0U

But the did not make any attempt
to maintain geometrical similarity.

IF a sailor size was  1/4 of a ship size,
he would not be sucked either.

I am not sure, if the viscosity has to be scaled
as well for that matter, but I guess it has.

As I mentioned in my other post
the Mythbusters do not care much
about reliability of their experiments and interpretations.

-- 
Poutnik ( the Czech word for a wanderer )

Knowledge makes great men humble, but small men arrogant.

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#540791

"Sylvia Else" <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in message 
news:ddrvmlF4vpjU1@mid.individual.net...
> On 22/12/2015 11:04 AM, M. Stradbury wrote:
>> Is it true (or an urban myth) that a swimmer would be sucked
>> under (presumably to drown) when a capital ship sinks?
>>
>
> Mythbusters tried it, and concluded that there was no significant sucking 
> sown.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvU_dkKdZ0U
>
> Sylvia.

mythbusters is a crock. 

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#540764

Back then, the reason to get away from the sinking ships was not the 
suction but the boilers exploding.

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#540779

Dne 22/12/2015 v 07:06 O napsal(a):
> Back then, the reason to get away from the sinking ships was not the 
> suction but the boilers exploding.
> 
I agree it is the best to get far from a wreck
independently on if whirl sucking is a danger or not.

-- 
Poutnik ( the Czech word for a wanderer )

Knowledge makes great men humble, but small men arrogant.

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#540772

Dne 22/12/2015 v 01:04 M. Stradbury napsal(a):
> Is it true (or an urban myth) that a swimmer would be sucked
> under (presumably to drown) when a capital ship sinks?
> 
I suppose there are many eye witnesses.

My not confirmed idea is,

that for very most time
is sinking too slow to be dangerous in this way.

But in final stage,
the one ship end is often submersed
and the ship is sliding down fast,
or the ships turns upside down,
or horizontally positioned ship accelerates
sinking toward the bottom.

In such scenario the motion is fast,
causing vertical streams and vertigos.

-- 
Poutnik ( the Czech word for a wanderer )

Knowledge makes great men humble, but small men arrogant.

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#540795

Per M. Stradbury:
>Is it true (or an urban myth) that a swimmer would be sucked
>under (presumably to drown) when a capital ship sinks?

Dunno what a capital ship is but am guessing it's big.

I saw an interview clip in which Lord Louis Mountbatten told of
surviving his destroyer's sinking - along with a senior NCO who said at
the time something like "Well sir, the scum always rises to the surface"
so I am guessing that both were in the water when the ship went down
under them.

-- 
Pete Cresswell

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