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Did LIGO Kill Quantum Mechanics?

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  Did LIGO Kill Quantum Mechanics? Pentcho Valev <pvalev@yahoo.com> - 2016-03-04 00:23 -0800
    Re: Did LIGO Kill Quantum Mechanics? Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-03-04 07:59 -0600
      Re: Did LIGO Kill Quantum Mechanics? "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2016-03-04 12:11 -0800
        Why does HVAC believe in ESP? benj <nobody@gmail.com> - 2016-03-05 01:16 -0500
          Why does HVAC believe in ESP? HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-03-04 22:44 -0800
            Re: Why does HVAC believe in ESP? benj <nobody@gmail.com> - 2016-03-05 02:32 -0500
              Re: Why does HVAC believe in ESP? HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-03-05 05:56 -0800
                Re: Why does HVAC believe in ESP? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-03-05 06:16 -0800
                  Re: Why does HVAC believe in ESP? HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-03-05 08:39 -0800
                    Re: Why does HVAC believe in ESP? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-03-05 08:48 -0800
                      Re: Why does HVAC believe in ESP? HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-03-05 09:01 -0800
                        Re: Why does HVAC believe in ESP? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-03-05 09:22 -0800
                          Re: Why does HVAC believe in ESP? benj <nobody@gmail.com> - 2016-03-05 14:44 -0500
                            Re: Why does HVAC believe in ESP? HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-03-06 07:11 -0800
                            Re: Why does HVAC believe in ESP? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-03-06 07:19 -0800
                              Re: Why does HVAC believe in ESP? HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-03-06 07:42 -0800
                                Re: Why does HVAC believe in ESP? benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-03-06 12:49 -0500
                          Re: Why does HVAC believe in ESP? HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-03-06 07:02 -0800
                            Re: Why does HVAC believe in ESP? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-03-06 07:12 -0800
                              Re: Why does HVAC believe in ESP? HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-03-06 07:32 -0800
                                Re: Why does HVAC believe in ESP? benj <nobody@gmail.com> - 2016-03-07 01:22 -0500
                              Re: Why does HVAC believe in ESP? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-03-07 08:40 -0600
                            Re: Why does HVAC believe in ESP? benj <nobody@gmail.com> - 2016-03-07 01:13 -0500
                        Re: Why does HVAC believe in ESP? benj <nobody@gmail.com> - 2016-03-05 14:40 -0500
                    Re: Why does HVAC believe in ESP? benj <nobody@gmail.com> - 2016-03-05 14:33 -0500
                      Re: Why does HVAC believe in ESP? HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-03-06 07:06 -0800
                        Re: Why does HVAC believe in ESP? benj <nobody@gmail.com> - 2016-03-07 01:08 -0500
                          Re: Why does HVAC believe in ESP? HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-03-07 07:17 -0800
                            Re: Why does HVAC believe in ESP? benj <nobody@gmail.com> - 2016-03-07 12:43 -0500
                              Re: Why does HVAC believe in ESP? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-03-07 10:04 -0800
                                Re: Why does HVAC believe in ESP? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-03-07 13:39 -0600
                                  Re: Why does HVAC believe in ESP? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-03-07 11:59 -0800
                                    Re: Why does HVAC believe in ESP? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-03-07 14:28 -0600
                                      Re: Why does HVAC believe in ESP? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-03-07 13:08 -0800
                                        Re: Why does HVAC believe in ESP? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-03-08 07:43 -0600
                                          Re: Why does HVAC believe in ESP? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-03-08 05:56 -0800
                                            Re: Why does HVAC believe in ESP? HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-03-08 06:06 -0800
                                            Re: Why does HVAC believe in ESP? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-03-08 09:34 -0600
                                          Re: Why does HVAC believe in ESP? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-03-08 06:31 -0800
                                            Re: Why does HVAC believe in ESP? HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-03-08 06:51 -0800
                                            Re: Why does HVAC believe in ESP? HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-03-08 06:51 -0800
                                              Re: Why does HVAC believe in ESP? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-03-08 07:16 -0800
                                                Re: Why does HVAC believe in ESP? HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-03-08 07:48 -0800
                                                  Re: Why does HVAC believe in ESP? benj <nobody@gmail.com> - 2016-03-08 14:21 -0500
                                                    Re: Why does HVAC believe in ESP? HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-03-10 03:32 -0800
                                                      Re: Why does HVAC believe in ESP? benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-03-11 00:10 -0500
                                              Re: Why does HVAC believe in ESP? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-03-08 07:19 -0800
                                                Re: Why does HVAC believe in ESP? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-03-09 07:30 -0600
                                            Re: Why does HVAC believe in ESP? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-03-08 09:47 -0600
                                              Re: Why does HVAC believe in ESP? benj <nobody@gmail.com> - 2016-03-08 14:40 -0500
                                  Re: Why does HVAC believe in ESP? benj <nobody@gmail.com> - 2016-03-07 18:42 -0500
                                    Re: Why does HVAC believe in ESP? HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-03-07 15:52 -0800
                                      Re: Why does HVAC believe in ESP? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-03-07 16:35 -0800
                                        Re: Why does HVAC believe in ESP? benj <nobody@gmail.com> - 2016-03-08 01:17 -0500
                                          Re: Why does HVAC believe in ESP? HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-03-08 04:05 -0800
                                            Re: Why does HVAC believe in ESP? benj <nobody@gmail.com> - 2016-03-08 13:55 -0500
                                      Re: Why does HVAC believe in ESP? benj <nobody@gmail.com> - 2016-03-08 01:09 -0500
                              Re: Why does HVAC believe in ESP? HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-03-07 10:56 -0800
                Re: Why does HVAC believe in ESP? benj <nobody@gmail.com> - 2016-03-05 14:25 -0500
                  Re: Why does HVAC believe in ESP? HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-03-06 07:03 -0800
                    Re: Why does HVAC believe in ESP? benj <nobody@gmail.com> - 2016-03-07 01:11 -0500
    Re: Did LIGO Kill Quantum Mechanics? Pentcho Valev <pvalev@yahoo.com> - 2016-03-04 23:16 -0800
      Re: Did LIGO Kill Quantum Mechanics? Pentcho Valev <pvalev@yahoo.com> - 2016-03-06 03:35 -0800
        Re: Did LIGO Kill Quantum Mechanics? Pentcho Valev <pvalev@yahoo.com> - 2016-03-09 22:59 -0800
          Re: Did LIGO Kill Quantum Mechanics? Pentcho Valev <pvalev@yahoo.com> - 2016-03-10 05:18 -0800
            Re: Did LIGO Kill Quantum Mechanics? Pentcho Valev <pvalev@yahoo.com> - 2016-03-11 03:49 -0800

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#559160 — Did LIGO Kill Quantum Mechanics?

Unless one is insane, one cannot believe in quantum mechanics and at the same time hail LIGO's "discovery" of gravitational waves. Simply because if gravitational waves, a manifestation of space-time bending caused by matter, do exist, quantum mechanics is just wrong:

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20727721.200-rethinking-einstein-the-end-of-spacetime.html 
 "Rethinking Einstein: The end of space-time (...) The stumbling block lies with their conflicting views of space and time. As seen by quantum theory, space and time are a static backdrop against which particles move. In Einstein's theories, by contrast, not only are space and time inextricably linked, but the resulting space-time is moulded by the bodies within it. (...) Something has to give in this tussle between general relativity and quantum mechanics, and the smart money says that it's relativity that will be the loser."

http://www.sciencemag.org/content/early/2015/08/05/science.aac6498 
 "In Einstein's general theory of relativity, time depends locally on gravity; in standard quantum theory, time is global - all clocks "tick" uniformly."

http://fqxi.org/community/articles/display/205 
 "If you'd asked Einstein, he would have told you that time is another dimension, much like the three dimensions of space. Together they knit together to create a spacetime fabric that pervades the universe. This notion of time as a dynamic, flexible dimension forms the basis of his immensely successful general theory of relativity, which explains how gravity manifests on cosmic scales as matter warps spacetime. On the other hand, however, the equally celebrated theory of quantum mechanics, which governs the nanoscale behavior of atoms and subatomic particles, says that time is unaffected by the presence of matter, serving as an absolute background reference clock against which motion can be measured."

Pentcho Valev

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#559177

On 3/4/16 2:23 AM, Pentcho Valev wrote:
> Unless one is insane, one cannot believe in quantum mechanics and at
> the same time hail LIGO's "discovery" of gravitational waves.


   Insanity just might be the case.

   Mother nature appears to follow the rules of quantum mechanics *and*
   relativity. The LIGO results do not contradict predictions of either
   theory, but, in fact, supports both.  QED



-- 

sci.physics is an unmoderated newsgroup dedicated
to the discussion of physics, news from the physics
community, and physics-related social issues.

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#559308

On Friday, March 4, 2016 at 5:59:40 AM UTC-8, Sam Wormley wrote:
> On 3/4/16 2:23 AM, Pentcho Valev wrote:
> > Unless one is insane, one cannot believe in quantum mechanics and at
> > the same time hail LIGO's "discovery" of gravitational waves.
> 
> 
>    Insanity just might be the case.
> 
>    Mother nature appears to follow the rules of quantum mechanics *and*
>    relativity. The LIGO results do not contradict predictions of either
>    theory, but, in fact, supports both.  QED
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> sci.physics is an unmoderated newsgroup dedicated
> to the discussion of physics, news from the physics
> community, and physics-related social issues.

QM is #1 a particle theory.My theory on the source of gravity is a particle theory. Gravity is particles all the way down.I will post it when it gets close to the bottom line. I want all my theories to do that. I never fudge.I search only for reality.I get some help from Treb. TreBert

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#559508 — Why does HVAC believe in ESP?

On 03/04/2016 03:11 PM, reber g=emc^2 wrote:

> QM is #1 a particle theory.My theory on the source of gravity is a
> particle theory. Gravity is particles all the way down.I will post it
> when it gets close to the bottom line. I want all my theories to do
> that. I never fudge.I search only for reality.I get some help from
> Treb. TreBert

I find it very interesting that while HVAC constantly goes on and on 
about all the people he thinks "believe in ESP" without any evidence 
whatsoever as to what they actually believe, yet here is his butt-buddy 
Bert talking about getting ESP messages from his imaginary friend "Treb" 
and there is not a peep from HVAC who apparently accepts that as "science".

Is HVAC really that messed up in the head?

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#559517 — Why does HVAC believe in ESP?

BJ quacked
I find it very interesting that while HVAC constantly goes on and on 
about all the people he thinks "believe in ESP" 
<Snip>
---------------

Here in this post, BJ presents and displays his persecution complex. Even to the point of offering up Bert to be his sacrificial lamb

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#559523 — Re: Why does HVAC believe in ESP?

On 03/05/2016 01:44 AM, HVAC wrote:
> BJ quacked
> I find it very interesting that while HVAC constantly goes on and on
> about all the people he thinks "believe in ESP"
> <Snip>
> ---------------
>
> Here in this post, BJ presents and displays his persecution complex. Even to the point of offering up Bert to be his sacrificial lamb
>
And just who is persecuting me? HVAC? ...that's funny! He's all mouth 
and no action. He's just another Treeb. There is no boat. There is no 
campaign for mayor. There is no daughter. There is no family. There is 
only assisted living and boredom. At least Treeb is on his own in a 
Walmart parking lot and is not anoymous. HVAC is the one who is 
anonymous and paranoid. What is HVAC scared of? Boinker is scared of 
trekies! (One apparently knocked on his door once) HVAC is scared of 
"gook ghosts" (tm). If I had his record with Satan, I'd be scared too.

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#559537 — Re: Why does HVAC believe in ESP?

BJ quacked
> 
> Here in this post, BJ presents and displays his persecution complex. Even to the point of offering up Bert to be his sacrificial lamb 
> 
And just who is persecuting me? HVAC? 
----------------

BJ, no one is persecuting you. That's the point. Your delusional paranoia has run wild. It seems that anyone who disagrees with your insane and kooky beliefs in ghosts and ESP is and MUST BE secret government disinformation agents, sent into newsgroups in order to squash the 'truth'. 

Now if you don't think that is a persecution complex, I don't know what to say. Perhaps you could ask some of your fellow travelers here like John or Maple Lips. I'm sure they will give you a satisfactory answer.

And please allow me to categorically deny currently working for any known government agency or organization

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#559550 — Re: Why does HVAC believe in ESP?

Then why, HVAC, do you
continually post about BJ?

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#559582 — Re: Why does HVAC believe in ESP?

john
Then why, HVAC, do you 
continually post about BJ? 
--------------

Because I still hold out hope for BJ. The shame he feels regarding his belief in ghosts is a GOOD thing. It shows that it's not too late for him. The shame he feels is the analytical side of his brain trying to beat down the reptilian part. It's the battle between logic and superstition. By creating this shame, I have made a chink in his kook armor. He had begun to doubt his own beliefs and superstitions.

This is a good thing and I will not stop trying to illuminate the dark recesses of his mind. You're welcome BTW.

Now, as regards YOU, John... Well, I think that for you it's too late.
You have adopted a new age way of thinking which actually works for you. That's fine. You have no way of affecting anything in my world, so you can hold any crazy ideas you want. You're wrong of course, but who cares? You honestly don't know enough about any branch of science to make a cogent argument and so I look upon you as one would look upon the feeble minded.

As always, no offense is intended

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#559587 — Re: Why does HVAC believe in ESP?

How can you see anything with your
head THAT far up your ass?
I call BS

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#559594 — Re: Why does HVAC believe in ESP?

John
How can you see anything with your 
head THAT far up your ass? 
I call BS 
--------------

You asked a question, I answered it. 

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#559604 — Re: Why does HVAC believe in ESP?

You're hallucinating, HVAC.
You have no light left, and
the darkness is giving you
delusions.
I really don't know how we can save you

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#559635 — Re: Why does HVAC believe in ESP?

On 03/05/2016 12:22 PM, john wrote:
> You're hallucinating, HVAC.
> You have no light left, and
> the darkness is giving you
> delusions.
> I really don't know how we can save you
>
Everyone gets to choose, John, and HVAC has made his choice. He is now 
truly lost so he gets his kicks trying to lead others astray.

Tell him again that ESP, Lasers, and Lightning actually are real. But I 
doubt it will do any good.

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#559757 — Re: Why does HVAC believe in ESP?

BJ quacked- 
 john wrote: 
> You're hallucinating, HVAC. 
> You have no light left, and 
> the darkness is giving you 
> delusions. 
> I really don't know how we can save you 
> 
Everyone gets to choose, John, and HVAC has made his choice. He is now 
truly lost so he gets his kicks trying to lead others astray. 
-------------

Religious freaks are so amusing!

In my best Dick Dastardly voice I say, "Nyuh uh uh!". As Mutley snickers

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#559760 — Re: Why does HVAC believe in ESP?

BJ said

Everyone gets to choose, John, and HVAC has made his choice. He is now 
truly lost so he gets his kicks trying to lead others astray. "

Yes, BJ, it is truly sad.
He's lost, so he thinks that's all there is!
OMG!!!

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#559764 — Re: Why does HVAC believe in ESP?

John said
Yes, BJ, it is truly sad. 
He's lost, so he thinks that's all there is! 
OMG!!! 
------------

"All there is"?

The universe and everything in it is "all there is". I have been privileged to be born into a universe of almost limitless natural beauty and complexity... Why would anyone not be satisfied with that? I truly don't get it.

To me it is the very height of hubris to believe that there is any existence beyond the physical world. It is the very height of arrogance to want more than one bite of the apple.

This is your life. Period. Make the best of it. Do acts of kindness without ANY hope of reward. Don't do bad things... Without fear of extra worldly punishments.

This is how a gentleman should live his life

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#559783 — Re: Why does HVAC believe in ESP?

On 03/06/2016 10:42 AM, HVAC wrote:
> John said
> Yes, BJ, it is truly sad.
> He's lost, so he thinks that's all there is!
> OMG!!!
> ------------
>
> "All there is"?
>
> The universe and everything in it is "all there is". I have been privileged to be born into a universe of almost limitless natural beauty and complexity... Why would anyone not be satisfied with that? I truly don't get it.
>
> To me it is the very height of hubris to believe that there is any existence beyond the physical world. It is the very height of arrogance to want more than one bite of the apple.
>
> This is your life. Period. Make the best of it. Do acts of kindness without ANY hope of reward. Don't do bad things... Without fear of extra worldly punishments.
>
> This is how a gentleman should live his life
>
John, HVAC believes that one does science by starting with what you 
believe, and then ignore any facts that don't fit your ideas. He says 
live your life as the animal he believes you are! IF you see something 
you want that another animal has, just TAKE IT! If they give you any 
resistance simply KILL THEM! That is his religion. This is history. Take 
that to the bank.

-- 

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  /:/\:\ \:|__| /:/\:\ \:\__\ /:/ |:| /\__\ \:\/:/  /
  \:\~\:\/:/  / \:\~\:\ \/__/ \/__|:|/:/  /  \::/  /
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    \:\/:/  /     \:\ \/__/       |::/  /
     \::/__/       \:\__\         /:/  /
      ~~            \/__/         \/__/

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#559754 — Re: Why does HVAC believe in ESP?

john
You're hallucinating, HVAC. 
You have no light left, and 
the darkness is giving you 
delusions. 
I really don't know how we can save you 
--------------

"We"?

Why do kooks like BJ and John call upon mythical people to join them in their battle against a reasoned argument?

Are they that weak?

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#559758 — Re: Why does HVAC believe in ESP?

I dunno HVAC-
do you believe in "particles with no volume"?
Do you believe that electrons use NO ENERGY
when in an orbital?
Do you believe that steel buildings just
fall down and disintegrate when impacted and
set on fire?
You're the KOOK, in my opinion.
No offense, of course, but are you potty-trained?

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#559763 — Re: Why does HVAC believe in ESP?

10:12 AMjohn
I dunno HVAC- 
do you believe in "particles with no volume"? 
-----------

I think your problem is that you do not understand what 'volume' means in this context.


Do you believe that electrons use NO ENERGY 
when in an orbital? 
--------------

The reasons electrons remain in their probability ascribed orbitals
is far too complex a topic to discuss with a layperson such as yourself. 


Do you believe that steel buildings just 
fall down and disintegrate when impacted and set on fire? 
-------------

Structural and mechanical systems follow rigid paths when acted upon by outside forces. There is no mystery.



You're the KOOK, in my opinion. 
No offense, of course, but are you potty-trained? 
--------------

John, don't resort to ad hominems.

Leave that to the experts... Me

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