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Groups > sci.physics > #567488 > unrolled thread

Non-composites never seen before

Started byjohn <johnsefton288@gmail.com>
First post2016-04-02 09:27 -0700
Last post2016-04-04 11:58 -0500
Articles 20 on this page of 77 — 9 participants

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  Non-composites never seen before john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-02 09:27 -0700
    Re: Non-composites never seen before benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-04-02 13:33 -0400
    Re: Non-composites never seen before Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 10:19 -0500
      Re: Non-composites never seen before john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 09:20 -0700
        Re: Non-composites never seen before Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 11:54 -0500
        Re: Non-composites never seen before moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-04-04 16:58 +0000
          Re: Non-composites never seen before Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 13:52 -0500
            Re: Non-composites never seen before benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 21:33 -0400
              Re: Non-composites never seen before Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 06:54 -0500
                Re: Non-composites never seen before HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 05:26 -0700
                  Re: Non-composites never seen before benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 09:51 -0400
                Re: Non-composites never seen before john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 05:30 -0700
                  Re: Non-composites never seen before john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 05:55 -0700
                    Re: Non-composites never seen before Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 06:06 -0700
                      Re: Non-composites never seen before benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 09:53 -0400
                      Re: Non-composites never seen before john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 09:16 -0700
                        Re: Non-composites never seen before john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 10:28 -0700
                          Re: Non-composites never seen before Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 17:09 -0500
                        Re: Non-composites never seen before Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 10:28 -0700
                          Re: Non-composites never seen before HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 10:51 -0700
                            Re: Non-composites never seen before Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 11:23 -0700
                              Re: Non-composites never seen before benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 15:16 -0400
                            Re: Non-composites never seen before benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 15:06 -0400
                        Re: Non-composites never seen before benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 15:20 -0400
                          Re: Non-composites never seen before Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 15:56 -0500
                        Re: Non-composites never seen before Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 17:09 -0500
                  Re: Non-composites never seen before benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 09:56 -0400
                    Re: Non-composites never seen before Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 17:10 -0500
                      Re: Non-composites never seen before john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 15:36 -0700
                        Re: Non-composites never seen before john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 16:09 -0700
                          Re: Non-composites never seen before moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-04-06 02:17 +0000
                          Re: Non-composites never seen before Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 07:15 -0500
                            Re: Non-composites never seen before noTthaTguY <abu.kuanysh05@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 22:08 -0700
                        Re: Non-composites never seen before Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 07:13 -0500
                          Re: Non-composites never seen before john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 05:37 -0700
                            Re: Non-composites never seen before HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 05:48 -0700
                            Re: Non-composites never seen before Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 07:52 -0500
                              Re: Non-composites never seen before john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 06:03 -0700
                                Re: Non-composites never seen before john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 06:17 -0700
                                  Re: Non-composites never seen before HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 06:21 -0700
                                  Re: Non-composites never seen before Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 08:35 -0500
                                Re: Non-composites never seen before Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 08:32 -0500
                                Re: Non-composites never seen before john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 06:38 -0700
                                  Re: Non-composites never seen before Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 09:10 -0500
                                  Re: Non-composites never seen before HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 07:14 -0700
                                    Re: Non-composites never seen before HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 08:20 -0700
                                      Re: Non-composites never seen before john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 08:53 -0700
                                        Re: Non-composites never seen before Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 11:00 -0500
                                          Re: Non-composites never seen before Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 13:19 -0500
                                        Re: Non-composites never seen before "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 22:40 -0700
                                    Re: Non-composites never seen before moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-04-06 18:55 +0000
                                      Re: Non-composites never seen before HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 12:20 -0700
                                        Re: Non-composites never seen before benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 16:08 -0400
                              Re: Non-composites never seen before benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 10:28 -0400
                                Re: Non-composites never seen before Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 09:47 -0500
                      Re: Non-composites never seen before benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 22:14 -0400
                        Re: Non-composites never seen before Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 07:27 -0500
                          Re: Non-composites never seen before HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 05:47 -0700
                          Re: Non-composites never seen before benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 10:20 -0400
                            Re: Non-composites never seen before Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 09:45 -0500
                              Re: Non-composites never seen before benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 11:10 -0400
                                Re: Non-composites never seen before Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 10:56 -0500
                                  Re: Non-composites never seen before benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 15:17 -0400
                  Re: Non-composites never seen before Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 17:10 -0500
                Re: Non-composites never seen before benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 09:42 -0400
                  Re: Non-composites never seen before Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 17:10 -0500
                    Re: Non-composites never seen before benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 22:11 -0400
                      Re: Non-composites never seen before Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 07:25 -0500
                        Re: Non-composites never seen before benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 10:11 -0400
                          Re: Non-composites never seen before Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 09:41 -0500
                            Re: Non-composites never seen before benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 11:07 -0400
                              Re: Non-composites never seen before Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 10:55 -0500
                                Re: Non-composites never seen before benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 15:15 -0400
                                  Re: Non-composites never seen before Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-08 13:46 -0500
                                    Re: Non-composites never seen before benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-04-08 23:24 -0400
        Re: Non-composites never seen before Double-A <double-a3@hush.com> - 2016-04-04 12:11 -0700
    Re: Non-composites never seen before Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 11:58 -0500

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#567488 — Non-composites never seen before

Fromjohn <johnsefton288@gmail.com>
Date2016-04-02 09:27 -0700
SubjectNon-composites never seen before
Message-ID<c083e99f-0d2f-4910-9181-fb46dd2fd79c@googlegroups.com>
Even though no one has ever seen
anything that is a non-composite,
our (their) entire "science" is
based on their certain (?) existence!!!

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#567511

Frombenj <none@gmail.com>
Date2016-04-02 13:33 -0400
Message-ID<tnTLy.311$9C2.284@fx37.iad>
In reply to#567488
On 04/02/2016 12:27 PM, john wrote:
> Even though no one has ever seen
> anything that is a non-composite,
> our (their) entire "science" is
> based on their certain (?) existence!!!
>
Aether is a non-composite.

-- 

       ___           ___           ___            ___
      /\  \         /\  \         /\__\          /\  \
     /::\  \       /::\  \       /::|  |         \:\  \
    /:/\:\  \     /:/\:\  \     /:|:|  |     ___ /::\__\
   /::\~\:\__\   /::\~\:\  \   /:/|:|  |__  /\  /:/\/__/
  /:/\:\ \:|__| /:/\:\ \:\__\ /:/ |:| /\__\ \:\/:/  /
  \:\~\:\/:/  / \:\~\:\ \/__/ \/__|:|/:/  /  \::/  /
   \:\ \::/  /   \:\ \:\__\       |:/:/  /    \/__/
    \:\/:/  /     \:\ \/__/       |::/  /
     \::/__/       \:\__\         /:/  /
      ~~            \/__/         \/__/

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#567847

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2016-04-04 10:19 -0500
Message-ID<ndu0lu$st$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#567488
On 4/2/2016 11:27 AM, john wrote:
> Even though no one has ever seen
> anything that is a non-composite,
> our (their) entire "science" is
> based on their certain (?) existence!!!
>

A hypothesis in science can be in line with what's been seen before or 
be completely different from what's been seen before. There is 
absolutely no hurdle or extra barrier involved in a hypothesis that is 
different than common experience, as long as it poses no direct 
contradiction to current observations.

What matters is whether that hypothesis produces quantitative 
predictions that match observations. Period, end of story.

If for example the hypothesis is extra, previously unobserved 
dimensions, then there is NO need to respond to questions like, "But why 
propose extra dimensions if they weren't obvious in everyday life 
before?" All that's needed is that extra dimensions provides a testable 
prediction that can be compared to measurement.

If for example the hypothesis is fundamental particles with no 
structure, then there is NO need to respond to questions like, "But why 
propose fundamental particles if they weren't obvious in everyday life 
before?" All that's needed is that fundamental particles provides a 
testable prediction that can be compared to measurement.

If for example the hypothesis is a nonstatic and expanding universe, 
then there is NO need to respond to questions like, "But why propose an 
expanding universe if it wasn't obvious in everyday life before?" All 
that's needed is that an expanding universe provides a testable 
prediction that can be compared to measurement.

-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#567863

Fromjohn <johnsefton288@gmail.com>
Date2016-04-04 09:20 -0700
Message-ID<ba8e9a61-fbc3-4a5d-b0c6-85268221ddaa@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#567847
Odd, if redshift is equal in all directions,
and it is caused by expansion
then we have to be at the Center.
If redshift is tired light,
then the same thing would be seen from any
point in Space.

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#567866

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2016-04-04 11:54 -0500
Message-ID<ndu679$b00$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#567863
On 4/4/2016 11:20 AM, john wrote:
> Odd, if redshift is equal in all directions,
> and it is caused by expansion
> then we have to be at the Center.

No, John, this is simply not right. If there is no edge and there is 
uniform expansion, then no matter where you are in that expanding space, 
the redshift will be equal in all directions.

> If redshift is tired light,
> then the same thing would be seen from any
> point in Space.
>

That's true, but then you would have no explanation for blueshift, which 
also happens.



-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#567868

Frommoroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)
Date2016-04-04 16:58 +0000
Message-ID<ndu6fa$sr7$2@pcls7.std.com>
In reply to#567863
john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> writes:

>Odd, if redshift is equal in all directions,
>and it is caused by expansion
>then we have to be at the Center.

Nope. Where is the center of the surface of an expanding spherical
balloon? (Not the point at the center of the inside of a balloon, the
center of the SURFACE)

If you paint dots on the balloon and inflate it, you'll see that all 
dots move away from each other, despite the fact no dot is considered 
the center.

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#567889

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2016-04-04 13:52 -0500
Message-ID<ndud50$n69$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#567868
On 4/4/2016 11:58 AM, Michael Moroney wrote:
> john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Odd, if redshift is equal in all directions,
>> and it is caused by expansion
>> then we have to be at the Center.
>
> Nope. Where is the center of the surface of an expanding spherical
> balloon? (Not the point at the center of the inside of a balloon, the
> center of the SURFACE)
>
> If you paint dots on the balloon and inflate it, you'll see that all
> dots move away from each other, despite the fact no dot is considered
> the center.
>

John is happy with the idea of an infinite universe.
So I gave him the notion of an infinitely long rod in that infinite 
universe, which is expanding uniformly, and he acknowledges that there 
is no center to that. I think he has a hard time reconciling an infinite 
universe with something that is expanding, because to him expansion 
means finding the edges. To him, something that is infinite has to be 
static.

-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#567979

Frombenj <none@gmail.com>
Date2016-04-04 21:33 -0400
Message-ID<0CEMy.8$kQ1.1@fx39.iad>
In reply to#567889
On 04/04/2016 02:52 PM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> On 4/4/2016 11:58 AM, Michael Moroney wrote:
>> john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> Odd, if redshift is equal in all directions,
>>> and it is caused by expansion
>>> then we have to be at the Center.
>>
>> Nope. Where is the center of the surface of an expanding spherical
>> balloon? (Not the point at the center of the inside of a balloon, the
>> center of the SURFACE)
>>
>> If you paint dots on the balloon and inflate it, you'll see that all
>> dots move away from each other, despite the fact no dot is considered
>> the center.
>>
>
> John is happy with the idea of an infinite universe.
> So I gave him the notion of an infinitely long rod in that infinite
> universe, which is expanding uniformly, and he acknowledges that there
> is no center to that. I think he has a hard time reconciling an infinite
> universe with something that is expanding, because to him expansion
> means finding the edges. To him, something that is infinite has to be
> static.

Boinker there is nothing "infinite" except human stupidity.

You are talking prue fantasy again. Note that an expanding balloon takes 
an EXTRA dimension, yet science accepts "no center" and denies "extra 
dimensions". This is typical of Lib logic.



-- 

       ___           ___           ___            ___
      /\  \         /\  \         /\__\          /\  \
     /::\  \       /::\  \       /::|  |         \:\  \
    /:/\:\  \     /:/\:\  \     /:|:|  |     ___ /::\__\
   /::\~\:\__\   /::\~\:\  \   /:/|:|  |__  /\  /:/\/__/
  /:/\:\ \:|__| /:/\:\ \:\__\ /:/ |:| /\__\ \:\/:/  /
  \:\~\:\/:/  / \:\~\:\ \/__/ \/__|:|/:/  /  \::/  /
   \:\ \::/  /   \:\ \:\__\       |:/:/  /    \/__/
    \:\/:/  /     \:\ \/__/       |::/  /
     \::/__/       \:\__\         /:/  /
      ~~            \/__/         \/__/

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#568017

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2016-04-05 06:54 -0500
Message-ID<ne091c$1beo$3@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#567979
On 4/4/2016 8:33 PM, benj wrote:
> On 04/04/2016 02:52 PM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>> On 4/4/2016 11:58 AM, Michael Moroney wrote:
>>> john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> Odd, if redshift is equal in all directions,
>>>> and it is caused by expansion
>>>> then we have to be at the Center.
>>>
>>> Nope. Where is the center of the surface of an expanding spherical
>>> balloon? (Not the point at the center of the inside of a balloon, the
>>> center of the SURFACE)
>>>
>>> If you paint dots on the balloon and inflate it, you'll see that all
>>> dots move away from each other, despite the fact no dot is considered
>>> the center.
>>>
>>
>> John is happy with the idea of an infinite universe.
>> So I gave him the notion of an infinitely long rod in that infinite
>> universe, which is expanding uniformly, and he acknowledges that there
>> is no center to that. I think he has a hard time reconciling an infinite
>> universe with something that is expanding, because to him expansion
>> means finding the edges. To him, something that is infinite has to be
>> static.
>
> Boinker there is nothing "infinite" except human stupidity.

Then have that discussion with John, who believes in an infinite universe.

>
> You are talking prue fantasy again. Note that an expanding balloon takes
> an EXTRA dimension,

I didn't mention an expanding balloon, nor is it necessary to explain it.

So Ben, let's get down to it. Since the universe cannot be infinite, 
according to you, it must be finite. If it is finite, do you think it 
has a boundary?

> yet science accepts "no center" and denies "extra
> dimensions". This is typical of Lib logic.
>
>
>


-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#568020

FromHVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com>
Date2016-04-05 05:26 -0700
Message-ID<c2a69539-4bcb-4110-b7ed-81db44074243@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#568017
Odd Bodkin
So Ben, let's get down to it. Since the universe cannot be infinite, 
according to you, it must be finite. If it is finite, do you think it 
has a boundary? 
----------------

Poor BJ has a problem with abstract thought. He simply cannot imagine an infinite set. The funny part is that many of his kooky notions require it.

Plus, he's still got that chip on his shoulder because of being terminated from his job.

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#568032

Frombenj <none@gmail.com>
Date2016-04-05 09:51 -0400
Message-ID<xpPMy.665$JM6.284@fx44.iad>
In reply to#568020
On 04/05/2016 08:26 AM, HVAC wrote:
> Odd Bodkin So Ben, let's get down to it. Since the universe cannot be
> infinite, according to you, it must be finite. If it is finite, do
> you think it has a boundary? ----------------
>
> Poor BJ has a problem with abstract thought. He simply cannot imagine
> an infinite set. The funny part is that many of his kooky notions
> require it.

Yes, poor BJ he actually can separate reality from fantasy. HVAC's world 
is 100% fantasy. And he has no problem with that. HVAC can imagine 
ANYTHING and then assure everyone gullible enough to listen that his 
fantasies are all true. Must be the drugs.

> Plus, he's still got that chip on his shoulder because of being
> terminated from his job.

Sorry, HVAC, I've never been Terminated from a job even after trying as 
hard as I could to make it so. If you get let go you can collect 
unemployment for a while. If you resign, you can't.

I'll bet you've collected unemployment MANY times! Except, of course, 
for the time you got fired for getting caught having gay sex on the job. 
Firing for cause means you can't collect. Boo hoo.

-- 

       ___           ___           ___            ___
      /\  \         /\  \         /\__\          /\  \
     /::\  \       /::\  \       /::|  |         \:\  \
    /:/\:\  \     /:/\:\  \     /:|:|  |     ___ /::\__\
   /::\~\:\__\   /::\~\:\  \   /:/|:|  |__  /\  /:/\/__/
  /:/\:\ \:|__| /:/\:\ \:\__\ /:/ |:| /\__\ \:\/:/  /
  \:\~\:\/:/  / \:\~\:\ \/__/ \/__|:|/:/  /  \::/  /
   \:\ \::/  /   \:\ \:\__\       |:/:/  /    \/__/
    \:\/:/  /     \:\ \/__/       |::/  /
     \::/__/       \:\__\         /:/  /
      ~~            \/__/         \/__/

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#568022

Fromjohn <johnsefton288@gmail.com>
Date2016-04-05 05:30 -0700
Message-ID<22399dc5-87d5-4752-bd06-38e92659c5bd@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#568017
Ben was getting down to it, OdD;

Equal Universal expansion is an impossibility.
Think about it.
Your spots on the balloon's surface
retreat equally from each other. One
layer down, not so much.
Near the center, they barely move.
So.
How does EVERYTHING retreat equally
from each other?
I suggest that you actually try to model
this concept, Odd.
Logically.
This "universal expansion" concept.
It can be shown to be logically impossible.

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#568024

Fromjohn <johnsefton288@gmail.com>
Date2016-04-05 05:55 -0700
Message-ID<973449d5-1b1c-44db-ad2d-36aeed63fe35@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#568022
Put 10 people in a space.
Tell them, "Everyone move away from
each other."
New party game

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#568025

FromMahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com>
Date2016-04-05 06:06 -0700
Message-ID<4f611a4a-3474-40a6-9639-bc63797ed3fe@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#568024
On Tuesday, April 5, 2016 at 8:55:56 AM UTC-4, john wrote:
> Put 10 people in a space.
> Tell them, "Everyone move away from
> each other."
> New party game

That's not new! At my age 52+, you don't need tell or instruct them
anything. I walk into a room, a bar, then everyone just moves far Far
FAR away. Mention you're into Ph(y)sics... drop dead silence. God forbid.

-- Mahipal “IPMM... माहिपाल ७६३८: Trust me Me ME, I wish I was joking too.”

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#568033

Frombenj <none@gmail.com>
Date2016-04-05 09:53 -0400
Message-ID<JrPMy.666$JM6.596@fx44.iad>
In reply to#568025
On 04/05/2016 09:06 AM, Mahipal wrote:
> On Tuesday, April 5, 2016 at 8:55:56 AM UTC-4, john wrote:
>> Put 10 people in a space.
>> Tell them, "Everyone move away from
>> each other."
>> New party game
>
> That's not new! At my age 52+, you don't need tell or instruct them
> anything. I walk into a room, a bar, then everyone just moves far Far
> FAR away. Mention you're into Ph(y)sics... drop dead silence. God forbid.
>
> -- Mahipal “IPMM... माहिपाल ७६३८: Trust me Me ME, I wish I was joking too.”

Quit whining, Maple loops. Just walk into a bar and tell them you are 
for Trump. Immediately everyone will be your pal. HVAC will be your pal. 
Everyone born without a brain will love you. That's science.



-- 

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#568049

Fromjohn <johnsefton288@gmail.com>
Date2016-04-05 09:16 -0700
Message-ID<06eb173a-dbb0-4bf5-833d-069e90bd14f7@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#568025
Odd's "uniform expansion" is only
possible for a spherical wavefront,
And only at one particular radius-
smaller expand less, larger expand
more.
Yes, it works for dots on a balloon-
kind of- if you don't measure through 
the curvature too far, and if you only
consider the surface, and only
neighbouring dots.
It's amazing what some people will hold
out as evidence/explanation!
And it can't work for more than one
Center. Blow up another balloon and
record where your dots go, mr scientist

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#568055

Fromjohn <johnsefton288@gmail.com>
Date2016-04-05 10:28 -0700
Message-ID<6c848ca2-49d0-4923-a3c0-4c38197acafc@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#568049
Odd
Think about your "universal expansion",
which you so blithely accept.
The MOST uniform universal expansion you
can have is a spherical wave. And that
has a negative gradient back to a center.

If you have a random 3D selection of
bodies, how do you propose to have them
"universally expand" wrt the space between
them?

Please tell me this.
Pretend I am a barmaid.

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#568124

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2016-04-05 17:09 -0500
Message-ID<ne1d3a$1m6v$2@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#568055
On 4/5/2016 12:28 PM, john wrote:
> Odd
> Think about your "universal expansion",
> which you so blithely accept.
> The MOST uniform universal expansion you
> can have is a spherical wave.

No, John. NOTHING I described to you is a spherical wave.
It is an expansion EVERYWHERE, where any two adjacent markers recede 
from each other at the same rate.

Look at the long rod case. Where is this wave you speak of?
Look at the plate. Where is this wave you speak of?

> And that
> has a negative gradient back to a center.
>
> If you have a random 3D selection of
> bodies, how do you propose to have them
> "universally expand" wrt the space between
> them?

Those bodies don't have to be where the little marks are, where the 
little dots are, where the little balls are. If you have a body that 
lies 2/3 of the way between dots (3464,13785) and (3465,13784), then as 
those dots move away from each other then the body will be carried with 
them to stay there at 2/3 between them.

If you want to think about the plate, imagine that you have this plate 
with little spots, and then you throw some gravel on the plate. The 
gravel stones don't necessarily sit on the dots, and that's just fine. 
So you have irregularly spaced gravel stones and regularly spaced dots 
on the plate. Now the plate expands uniformly, so that any two adjacent 
dots increase their spacing the same way.

Does this help you picture it?

>
> Please tell me this.
> Pretend I am a barmaid.
>


-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#568056

FromMahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com>
Date2016-04-05 10:28 -0700
Message-ID<b4b8c479-f276-49ec-9b88-c5c8643b8a6d@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#568049
On Tuesday, April 5, 2016 at 12:16:52 PM UTC-4, john wrote:
> Odd's "uniform expansion" is only
> possible for a spherical wavefront,
> And only at one particular radius-
> smaller expand less, larger expand
> more.
> Yes, it works for dots on a balloon-
> kind of- if you don't measure through 
> the curvature too far, and if you only
> consider the surface, and only
> neighbouring dots.
> It's amazing what some people will hold
> out as evidence/explanation!
> And it can't work for more than one
> Center. Blow up another balloon and
> record where your dots go, mr scientist

That galaxies as points on an expanding balloon, spherical of course,
like the way all ideal cows are, always seemed like a magician's tool
to distract attention from what is really going on. It's also funny
weird, the(y)TheThemScientistPhysicists always return to that one
imagery. As it happens to be, magicians do use a lot of balloons too.
Coincidence? Me thinks not... Conspiracy? Me not allowed to thinks that.

Lecturing Prof Sam Worm Liars (Early Monday and Late Friday Classes):
Hey my pals, just because most galaxies are colliding with eachother,
here see our local galactic crowd, and see our latest fancy time fast
forwarded CGIs, wow what a nice shade of blue that, simulations of
there inevitable collisions... see all that. See The Show! That
doesn't mean that all galactic scale points are not expanding away
from one another like on a hot air balloon. Get real Real REAL!

-- Mahipal “IPMM... माहिपाल ७६३८: It's always a hot air balloon too. Pop!”

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#568060

FromHVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com>
Date2016-04-05 10:51 -0700
Message-ID<a00ac745-82a0-495b-b312-814b9a5ad540@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#568056
Maple Loops says
- show quoted text -
That galaxies as points on an expanding balloon, spherical of course, 
like the way all ideal cows are, always seemed like a magician's tool 
to distract attention from what is really going on. It's also funny 
weird, the(y)TheThemScientistPhysicists always return to that one 
imagery. As it happens to be, magicians do use a lot of balloons too. 
Coincidence? Me thinks not... Conspiracy? Me not allowed to thinks that. 

Lecturing Prof Sam Worm Liars (Early Monday and Late Friday Classes): 
Hey my pals, just because most galaxies are colliding with eachother, 
here see our local galactic crowd, and see our latest fancy time fast 
forwarded CGIs, wow what a nice shade of blue that, simulations of 
there inevitable collisions... see all that. See The Show! That 
doesn't mean that all galactic scale points are not expanding away 
from one another like on a hot air balloon. Get real Real REAL! 
---------------

The utter stupidity shown by Maple Lips, BJ and John on their failure to understand expansion of the universe is breathtaking.

Why do they find the concept of an expanding universe so difficult to comprehend?

There has to be some underlying kook notion at play here.

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