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Einstein wrong, God does play dice and information can travel faster than light

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  Einstein wrong, God does play dice and information can travel faster than light habshi@anony.net - 2015-10-27 21:49 +0000
    Re: Einstein wrong, God does play dice and information can travel faster than light jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-10-27 22:12 +0000
      Re: Einstein wrong, God does play dice and information can travel faster than light "Bob F" <bobnospam@gmail.com> - 2015-10-27 17:20 -0700
    Re: Einstein wrong, God does play dice and information can travel faster than light benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-10-27 23:22 -0400
    Re: Einstein wrong, God does play dice and information can travel faster than light "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2015-10-27 20:26 -0700
    Einstein wrong, God does play dice and information can travel faster than light jay moseley <jaymoseley@hotmail.com> - 2015-10-28 06:47 -0700

#528584 — Einstein wrong, God does play dice and information can travel faster than light

 maybe the electrons are communicating through another dimension we
can travel through

excerpt

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/10/151021161040.htm

Experiment tests Einstein's 'God does not play dice' with quantum
'dice'
Date:October 21, 2015
Source:ICFO-The Institute of Photonic Sciences
Summary:Random number generators played a critical role in an historic
experiment. The experiment gives the strongest refutation to date of
Albert Einstein's principle of 'local realism,' which says that the
universe obeys laws, not chance, and that there is no communication
faster than light.

This is an artistic impression of the entanglement between electrons.
ICFORandom number generators developed at ICFO -- The Institute of
Photonic Sciences, by the groups of ICREA Professors Morgan W.
Mitchell and Valerio Pruneri, played a critical role in the historic
experiment was published online today in Nature by the group of Ronald
Hanson at TU Delft. The experiment gives the strongest refutation to
date of Albert Einstein's principle of "local realism," which says
that the universe obeys laws, not chance, and that there is no
communication faster than light.

As described in Hanson's group web the Delft experiment first
"entangled" two electrons trapped inside two different diamond
crystals, and then measured the electrons' orientations. In quantum
theory entanglement is powerful and mysterious: mathematically the two
electrons are described by a single "wave-function" that only
specifies whether they agree or disagree, not which direction either
spin points. In a mathematical sense, they lose their identities.
"Local realism" attempts to explain the same phenomena with less
mystery, saying that the particles must be pointing somewhere, we just
don't know their directions until we measure them.

When measured, the Delft electrons did indeed appear individually
random while agreeing very well. So well, in fact, that they cannot
have had pre-existing orientations, as realism claims. This behaviour
is only possible if the electrons communicate with each other,
something that is very surprising for electrons trapped in different
crystals. But here's the amazing part: in the Delft experiment, the
diamonds were in different buildings, 1.3 km away from each other.
Moreover, the measurements were made so quickly that there wasn't time
for the electrons to communicate, not even with signals traveling at
the speed of light. This puts "local realism" in a very tight spot: if
the electron orientations are real, the electrons must have
communicated. But if they communicated, they must have done so faster
than the speed of light. There's no way out, and local realism is
disproven. Either God does play "dice" with the universe, or electron
spins can talk to each other faster than the speed of light.

This amazing experiment called for extremely fast, unpredictable
decisions about how to measure the electron orientations. If the
measurements had been predictable, the electrons could have agreed in
advance which way to point, simulating communications where there
wasn't really any, a gap in the experimental proof known as a
"loophole." To close this loophole, the Delft team turned to ICFO, who
hold the record for the fastest quantum random number generators. ICFO
designed a pair of "quantum dice" for the experiment: a special
version of their patented random number generation technology,
including very fast "randomness extraction" electronics. This produced
one extremely pure random bit for each measurement made in the Delft
experiment. The bits were produced in about 100 ns, the time it takes
light to travel just 30 meters, not nearly enough time for the
electrons to communicate. "Delft asked us to go beyond the state of
the art in random number generation. Never before has an experiment
required such good random numbers in such a short time." Says Carlos
Abellán, a PhD student at ICFO and a co-author of the Delft study.

For the ICFO team, the participation in the Delft experiment was more
than a chance to contribute to fundamental physics. Prof. Morgan
Mitchell comments: "Working on this experiment pushed us to develop
technologies that we can now apply to improve communications security
and high-performance computing, other areas that require high-speed
and high-quality random numbers."

With the help of ICFO's quantum random number generators, the Delft
experiment gives a nearly perfect disproof of Einstein's world-view,
in which "nothing travels faster than light" and "God does not play
dice." At least one of these statements must be wrong. The laws that
govern the Universe may indeed be a throw of the dice.

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#528602

In sci.physics habshi@anony.net wrote:
>  maybe the electrons are communicating through another dimension we
> can travel through

Let's squeeze you to the size of an electron and find out.


-- 
Jim Pennino

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#528616

jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
> In sci.physics habshi@anony.net wrote:
>>  maybe the electrons are communicating through another dimension we
>> can travel through
>
> Let's squeeze you to the size of an electron and find out.

He'd be the same size as your contribution to this group.

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#528655

On 10/27/2015 05:49 PM, habshi@anony.net wrote:
>   maybe the electrons are communicating through another dimension we
> can travel through

Maybe you are right Habshi.

The light speed limit is really only for information (energy) in our 3 
dimensions. There are things that travel faster than light but do not 
provide communications. However, Science shows that ESP not only travels 
faster than light but also is flexible in time (in other words can bring 
information from the future). This indicated that ESP is due to 
dimensions beyond the 3 with which we are familiar.




-- 

       ___           ___           ___            ___
      /\  \         /\  \         /\__\          /\  \
     /::\  \       /::\  \       /::|  |         \:\  \
    /:/\:\  \     /:/\:\  \     /:|:|  |     ___ /::\__\
   /::\~\:\__\   /::\~\:\  \   /:/|:|  |__  /\  /:/\/__/
  /:/\:\ \:|__| /:/\:\ \:\__\ /:/ |:| /\__\ \:\/:/  /
  \:\~\:\/:/  / \:\~\:\ \/__/ \/__|:|/:/  /  \::/  /
   \:\ \::/  /   \:\ \:\__\       |:/:/  /    \/__/
    \:\/:/  /     \:\ \/__/       |::/  /
     \::/__/       \:\__\         /:/  /
      ~~            \/__/         \/__/

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#528656

On Tuesday, October 27, 2015 at 2:49:18 PM UTC-7, hab...@anony.net wrote:
> maybe the electrons are communicating through another dimension we
> can travel through
> 
> excerpt
> 
> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/10/151021161040.htm
> 
> Experiment tests Einstein's 'God does not play dice' with quantum
> 'dice'
> Date:October 21, 2015
> Source:ICFO-The Institute of Photonic Sciences
> Summary:Random number generators played a critical role in an historic
> experiment. The experiment gives the strongest refutation to date of
> Albert Einstein's principle of 'local realism,' which says that the
> universe obeys laws, not chance, and that there is no communication
> faster than light.
> 
> This is an artistic impression of the entanglement between electrons.
> ICFORandom number generators developed at ICFO -- The Institute of
> Photonic Sciences, by the groups of ICREA Professors Morgan W.
> Mitchell and Valerio Pruneri, played a critical role in the historic
> experiment was published online today in Nature by the group of Ronald
> Hanson at TU Delft. The experiment gives the strongest refutation to
> date of Albert Einstein's principle of "local realism," which says
> that the universe obeys laws, not chance, and that there is no
> communication faster than light.
> 
> As described in Hanson's group web the Delft experiment first
> "entangled" two electrons trapped inside two different diamond
> crystals, and then measured the electrons' orientations. In quantum
> theory entanglement is powerful and mysterious: mathematically the two
> electrons are described by a single "wave-function" that only
> specifies whether they agree or disagree, not which direction either
> spin points. In a mathematical sense, they lose their identities.
> "Local realism" attempts to explain the same phenomena with less
> mystery, saying that the particles must be pointing somewhere, we just
> don't know their directions until we measure them.
> 
> When measured, the Delft electrons did indeed appear individually
> random while agreeing very well. So well, in fact, that they cannot
> have had pre-existing orientations, as realism claims. This behaviour
> is only possible if the electrons communicate with each other,
> something that is very surprising for electrons trapped in different
> crystals. But here's the amazing part: in the Delft experiment, the
> diamonds were in different buildings, 1.3 km away from each other.
> Moreover, the measurements were made so quickly that there wasn't time
> for the electrons to communicate, not even with signals traveling at
> the speed of light. This puts "local realism" in a very tight spot: if
> the electron orientations are real, the electrons must have
> communicated. But if they communicated, they must have done so faster
> than the speed of light. There's no way out, and local realism is
> disproven. Either God does play "dice" with the universe, or electron
> spins can talk to each other faster than the speed of light.
> 
> This amazing experiment called for extremely fast, unpredictable
> decisions about how to measure the electron orientations. If the
> measurements had been predictable, the electrons could have agreed in
> advance which way to point, simulating communications where there
> wasn't really any, a gap in the experimental proof known as a
> "loophole." To close this loophole, the Delft team turned to ICFO, who
> hold the record for the fastest quantum random number generators. ICFO
> designed a pair of "quantum dice" for the experiment: a special
> version of their patented random number generation technology,
> including very fast "randomness extraction" electronics. This produced
> one extremely pure random bit for each measurement made in the Delft
> experiment. The bits were produced in about 100 ns, the time it takes
> light to travel just 30 meters, not nearly enough time for the
> electrons to communicate. "Delft asked us to go beyond the state of
> the art in random number generation. Never before has an experiment
> required such good random numbers in such a short time." Says Carlos
> Abellán, a PhD student at ICFO and a co-author of the Delft study.
> 
> For the ICFO team, the participation in the Delft experiment was more
> than a chance to contribute to fundamental physics. Prof. Morgan
> Mitchell comments: "Working on this experiment pushed us to develop
> technologies that we can now apply to improve communications security
> and high-performance computing, other areas that require high-speed
> and high-quality random numbers."
> 
> With the help of ICFO's quantum random number generators, the Delft
> experiment gives a nearly perfect disproof of Einstein's world-view,
> in which "nothing travels faster than light" and "God does not play
> dice." At least one of these statements must be wrong. The laws that
> govern the Universe may indeed be a throw of the dice.

(No.  Information propagation stops at c.)

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#528701

Habshi wrote on entanglement.
>
Entanglement seems such a bogus claim. The article in question is
paywalled but other versions of "entanglement" experiments are
available to study. Reference on these indicates that after the non 
linear crystal both paths have the *same* sequence of polarizations
in what can be described as a signature in the temporal axis.( each path
is orthoganally polarized to the other but as one is signal and one is
idler this orthogonality doesnt change the fact that the two paths have
Identical unique time based signatures)
This is mistakenly referred to as entanglement. Its not. It is a classical
effect that allows a coincidence counter to match up at a later date
identical events on both paths.

Take this analogy. Two sequences of numbers are the two identical
randomly sequenced polarized "entangled path" light pulses below...
path A 016846309671475...
path B 016846309671475...
Now send path A a million k in one direction and path B the same distance
in the opposite direction. Then detect them and get the coincidence counter
to match up those sequences by using time from emission for both
paths. They both match!!!! 

According to QT : By measuring one path earlier than the other it has 
magically effected the 'others' path, faster than light or even back into time.
But its not magic entanglement. Its just matching up identical
sequences that have identical t0 start times.

Im sure the same applies to this new dutch scam.

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