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How many Black Holes are there?

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  How many Black Holes are there? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-11-17 22:26 -0800
    Re: How many Black Holes are there? pnalsing@gmail.com - 2018-11-17 22:50 -0800
    Re: How many Black Holes are there? Whisper <beaver999@ozemail.com> - 2018-11-18 19:39 +1100
      Re: How many Black Holes are there? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-11-18 15:46 +0100
        Re: How many Black Holes are there? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-11-18 07:38 -0800
    Re: How many Black Holes are there? mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-11-18 11:12 -0800
      Re: How many Black Holes are there? pnalsing@gmail.com - 2018-11-19 17:11 -0800
    Re: How many Black Holes are there? "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-11-18 15:48 -0800
      Re: How many Black Holes are there? "reber G=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2018-11-19 13:32 -0800
        Re: How many Black Holes are there? "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-11-19 13:36 -0800
          Re: How many Black Holes are there? "reber G=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2018-11-19 16:06 -0800
    Re: How many Black Holes are there? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-11-20 10:20 -0800
      Re: How many Black Holes are there? "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-11-20 13:28 -0800
      Re: How many Black Holes are there? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-11-20 17:54 -0800
        Re: How many Black Holes are there? "reber G=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2018-11-20 19:18 -0800
        Re: How many Black Holes are there? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-11-21 10:28 -0800
          Re: How many Black Holes are there? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-11-21 23:46 -0800
            Re: How many Black Holes are there? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-11-24 14:01 -0800
    Re: How many Black Holes are there? "reber G=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2018-11-21 17:47 -0800
      Re: How many Black Holes are there? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-11-22 03:04 +0100

#713196 — How many Black Holes are there?

How many Black Holes are there?

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#713197

On Saturday, November 17, 2018 at 10:35:18 PM UTC-8, The Starmaker wrote:

> How many Black Holes are there?

How many would you like there to be?

http://hubblesite.org/explore_astronomy/black_holes/encyc_mod3_q7.html

'"There are so many black holes in the Universe that it is impossible to count them. It's like asking how many grains of sand are on the beach."

Here, read until you drop...

https://www.google.com/search?q=how+many+black+holes+are+there%3F&rlz=1C1ILPI_enUS745US745&oq=how+many+black+holes+are+there%3F&aqs=chrome..69i57j0j69i61j0l3.8890j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

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#713200

On 18/11/2018 5:26 PM, The Starmaker wrote:
> How many Black Holes are there?
> 

It doesn't matter.



---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

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#713207

Whisper wrote:
> On 18/11/2018 5:26 PM, The Starmaker wrote:
>> How many Black Holes are there?
> 
> It doesn't matter.

But it does.

F’up2 sci.physics.relativity

-- 
PointedEars

Twitter: @PointedEars2
Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.

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#713210

Pointed
“ It doesn't matter. 

But it does. ”
No- not even for an ODCer like you.
THIS is where you use ‘infinite’

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#713243

On Saturday, November 17, 2018 at 10:35:18 PM UTC-8, The Starmaker wrote:
> How many Black Holes are there?

None. There is something else...
Neutronium doesn't collapse.
There is no collapsar.

Mitchell Raemsch

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#713443

On Sunday, November 18, 2018 at 11:12:27 AM UTC-8, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:

> Neutronium doesn't collapse.

BZZZZT! Better do more research, Mitch, because you are definitely wrong about this...

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#713293

On 11/17/2018 10:26 PM, The Starmaker wrote:
> How many Black Holes are there?
> 

I don't know. If the universe is infinite, then there are an infinite 
amount. Well, how many stars are being tracked right now that are decent 
candidates to go supernova in less than 100 years? Some of them should 
end up creating black holes...

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#713402

On Sunday, November 18, 2018 at 3:48:46 PM UTC-8, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
> On 11/17/2018 10:26 PM, The Starmaker wrote:
> > How many Black Holes are there?
> > 
> 
> I don't know. If the universe is infinite, then there are an infinite 
> amount. Well, how many stars are being tracked right now that are decent 
> candidates to go supernova in less than 100 years? Some of them should 
> end up creating black holes...

There are 285 billion BHs in the Macro realm .There are 285 trillon in the micro. Bert

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#713404

On 11/19/2018 1:32 PM, reber G=emc^2 wrote:
> On Sunday, November 18, 2018 at 3:48:46 PM UTC-8, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
>> On 11/17/2018 10:26 PM, The Starmaker wrote:
>>> How many Black Holes are there?
>>>
>>
>> I don't know. If the universe is infinite, then there are an infinite
>> amount. Well, how many stars are being tracked right now that are decent
>> candidates to go supernova in less than 100 years? Some of them should
>> end up creating black holes...
> 
> There are 285 billion BHs in the Macro realm .There are 285 trillon in the micro. Bert
> 

285? Humm, I thought it would be a prime number. lol. :^)

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#713435

On Monday, November 19, 2018 at 1:37:00 PM UTC-8, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
> On 11/19/2018 1:32 PM, reber G=emc^2 wrote:
> > On Sunday, November 18, 2018 at 3:48:46 PM UTC-8, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
> >> On 11/17/2018 10:26 PM, The Starmaker wrote:
> >>> How many Black Holes are there?
> >>>
> >>
> >> I don't know. If the universe is infinite, then there are an infinite
> >> amount. Well, how many stars are being tracked right now that are decent
> >> candidates to go supernova in less than 100 years? Some of them should
> >> end up creating black holes...
> > 
> > There are 285 billion BHs in the Macro realm .There are 285 trillon in the micro. Bert
> > 
> 
> 285? Humm, I thought it would be a prime number. lol. :^)

Treb always went with 285.So be it Bert

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#713542

The Starmaker wrote:
> 
> How many Black Holes are there?



maybe yous people didn't understand the question...


How many Black Holes are there?  "are there?"

"are there" means...in a place or position.

"are there"

How many Black Holes ... *are there*?


Look, I understand yous numbers guys like to say 'billions and billions'...


'billions and billions of earths', and 'billions and billions of black holes'...


but the question is...How many Black Holes are there?


You know, confirmed..


is it 10... or around 20? maybe 25??

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#713583

On 11/20/2018 10:20 AM, The Starmaker wrote:
> The Starmaker wrote:
>>
>> How many Black Holes are there?
> 
> 
> 
> maybe yous people didn't understand the question...
> 
> 
> How many Black Holes are there?  "are there?"
> 
> "are there" means...in a place or position.
> 
> "are there"
> 
> How many Black Holes ... *are there*?
> 
> 
> Look, I understand yous numbers guys like to say 'billions and billions'...
> 
> 
> 'billions and billions of earths', and 'billions and billions of black holes'...
> 
> 
> but the question is...How many Black Holes are there?
> 
> 
> You know, confirmed..
> 
> 
> is it 10... or around 20? maybe 25??
> 

Imagine that most, if not all galaxies have super massive black holes 
nested within their cores. Are there more than 25 galaxies?

Also, there can be smaller black holes wandering the dust lanes of a galaxy.

I have a feeling that these small wandering bh's might be "connected" to 
the main super large giant bh in the center.

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#713658

palsing wrote:
> 
> On Tuesday, November 20, 2018 at 10:20:50 AM UTC-8, The Starmaker wrote:
> > The Starmaker wrote:
> > >
> > > How many Black Holes are there?
> >
> >
> >
> > maybe yous people didn't understand the question...
> >
> >
> > How many Black Holes are there?  "are there?"
> >
> > "are there" means...in a place or position.
> >
> > "are there"
> >
> > How many Black Holes ... *are there*?
> >
> >
> > Look, I understand yous numbers guys like to say 'billions and billions'...
> >
> >
> > 'billions and billions of earths', and 'billions and billions of black holes'...
> >
> >
> > but the question is...How many Black Holes are there?
> >
> >
> > You know, confirmed..
> >
> >
> > is it 10... or around 20? maybe 25??
> 
> Another guy who can't be bothered to look this up for himself, but would rather just make a wild-ass guess.
> 
> Here you go, Lazy...
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_black_holes
> 
> I count 139 on that page, including galaxies containing bit double and triple black holes.


That link you provided reads:



This is an ordered list of the most massive black holes so far discovered (and probable candidates),


You would have to omit (probable candidates) since "probable candidates" you cannot confirm that which you have no proof of.


I would estimate there are over 100 probable candidates.


That leaves 10 balck holes... or around 20? or maybe even  25?? But certaintly not 130 since you didn't omit  probable candidates.


There you go, Lazy...

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#713684

On Tuesday, November 20, 2018 at 5:54:08 PM UTC-8, The Starmaker wrote:
> palsing wrote:
> > 
> > On Tuesday, November 20, 2018 at 10:20:50 AM UTC-8, The Starmaker wrote:
> > > The Starmaker wrote:
> > > >
> > > > How many Black Holes are there?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > maybe yous people didn't understand the question...
> > >
> > >
> > > How many Black Holes are there?  "are there?"
> > >
> > > "are there" means...in a place or position.
> > >
> > > "are there"
> > >
> > > How many Black Holes ... *are there*?
> > >
> > >
> > > Look, I understand yous numbers guys like to say 'billions and billions'...
> > >
> > >
> > > 'billions and billions of earths', and 'billions and billions of black holes'...
> > >
> > >
> > > but the question is...How many Black Holes are there?
> > >
> > >
> > > You know, confirmed..
> > >
> > >
> > > is it 10... or around 20? maybe 25??
> > 
> > Another guy who can't be bothered to look this up for himself, but would rather just make a wild-ass guess.
> > 
> > Here you go, Lazy...
> > 
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_black_holes
> > 
> > I count 139 on that page, including galaxies containing bit double and triple black holes.
> 
> 
> That link you provided reads:
> 
> 
> 
> This is an ordered list of the most massive black holes so far discovered (and probable candidates),
> 
> 
> You would have to omit (probable candidates) since "probable candidates" you cannot confirm that which you have no proof of.
> 
> 
> I would estimate there are over 100 probable candidates.
> 
> 
> That leaves 10 balck holes... or around 20? or maybe even  25?? But certaintly not 130 since you didn't omit  probable candidates.
> 
> 
> There you go, Lazy...

One BH makes for one universe.BHs come and go over an infinite time scale.Thus there are more universes in the cosmos than all the flakes of snow that has ever fallen. Best to keep in mind BHs come in every mass density.Trillion and trillions in the quantum realm alone.My critical mass density theory gives the reason they become big bangs,and ooops goes an other universe  Bert

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#713772

palsing wrote:
> 
> On Tuesday, November 20, 2018 at 5:54:06 PM UTC-8, The Starmaker wrote:
> > palsing wrote:
> > >
> > > On Tuesday, November 20, 2018 at 10:20:50 AM UTC-8, The Starmaker wrote:
> > > > The Starmaker wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > How many Black Holes are there?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > maybe yous people didn't understand the question...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > How many Black Holes are there?  "are there?"
> > > >
> > > > "are there" means...in a place or position.
> > > >
> > > > "are there"
> > > >
> > > > How many Black Holes ... *are there*?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Look, I understand yous numbers guys like to say 'billions and billions'...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 'billions and billions of earths', and 'billions and billions of black holes'...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > but the question is...How many Black Holes are there?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > You know, confirmed..
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > is it 10... or around 20? maybe 25??
> > >
> > > Another guy who can't be bothered to look this up for himself, but would rather just make a wild-ass guess.
> > >
> > > Here you go, Lazy...
> > >
> > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_black_holes
> > >
> > > I count 139 on that page, including galaxies containing bit double and triple black holes.
> >
> >
> > That link you provided reads:
> >
> >
> >
> > This is an ordered list of the most massive black holes so far discovered (and probable candidates),
> >
> >
> > You would have to omit (probable candidates) since "probable candidates" you cannot confirm that which you have no proof of.
> >
> >
> > I would estimate there are over 100 probable candidates.
> >
> >
> > That leaves 10 balck holes... or around 20? or maybe even  25?? But certaintly not 130 since you didn't omit  probable candidates.
> >
> >
> > There you go, Lazy...
> 
> In the interest of accuracy, the page says "This is a list of black holes (and stars considered probable candidates)". Note it says "stars" and not Supermassive black holes, which are definitely not individual stars.


Okay Lazy, here it is on the line you provided:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_black_holes


Supermassive black holes and candidates

(then under it it reads: See also: List of most massive black holes and List of quasars)

Then, you put your mouse on the highlighted link:


List of most massive black holes


The link pop-up reads: This is an ordered list of the most massive black holes so far discovered (and probable candidates)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_massive_black_holes



Here you go, Lazy...

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#713959

palsing wrote:
> 
> On Wednesday, November 21, 2018 at 10:26:49 AM UTC-8, The Starmaker wrote:
> > palsing wrote:
> > >
> > > On Tuesday, November 20, 2018 at 5:54:06 PM UTC-8, The Starmaker wrote:
> > > > palsing wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > On Tuesday, November 20, 2018 at 10:20:50 AM UTC-8, The Starmaker wrote:
> > > > > > The Starmaker wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > How many Black Holes are there?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > maybe yous people didn't understand the question...
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > How many Black Holes are there?  "are there?"
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "are there" means...in a place or position.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "are there"
> > > > > >
> > > > > > How many Black Holes ... *are there*?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Look, I understand yous numbers guys like to say 'billions and billions'...
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 'billions and billions of earths', and 'billions and billions of black holes'...
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > but the question is...How many Black Holes are there?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You know, confirmed..
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > is it 10... or around 20? maybe 25??
> > > > >
> > > > > Another guy who can't be bothered to look this up for himself, but would rather just make a wild-ass guess.
> > > > >
> > > > > Here you go, Lazy...
> > > > >
> > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_black_holes
> > > > >
> > > > > I count 139 on that page, including galaxies containing bit double and triple black holes.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > That link you provided reads:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > This is an ordered list of the most massive black holes so far discovered (and probable candidates),
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > You would have to omit (probable candidates) since "probable candidates" you cannot confirm that which you have no proof of.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I would estimate there are over 100 probable candidates.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > That leaves 10 balck holes... or around 20? or maybe even  25?? But certaintly not 130 since you didn't omit  probable candidates.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > There you go, Lazy...
> > >
> > > In the interest of accuracy, the page says "This is a list of black holes (and stars considered probable candidates)". Note it says "stars" and not Supermassive black holes, which are definitely not individual stars.
> >
> >
> > Okay Lazy, here it is on the line you provided:
> >
> >
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_black_holes
> >
> >
> > Supermassive black holes and candidates
> >
> > (then under it it reads: See also: List of most massive black holes and List of quasars)
> >
> > Then, you put your mouse on the highlighted link:
> >
> >
> > List of most massive black holes
> >
> >
> > The link pop-up reads: This is an ordered list of the most massive black holes so far discovered (and probable candidates)
> >
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_massive_black_holes
> >
> >
> >
> > Here you go, Lazy...
> 
> So, what's your point? 'Probable candidates' is a strong statement, 

Maybe you don't know what the word "Probable" means...it means no proof. How can you confirm something without proof?





>and I see where casually dismissed my question about how you 'estimated' that there were over 100 'probable candidates'?


The math is simple, you counted 139 black holes and I took away the  'probable candidates', 

 139  Supermassive black holes and candidates
- 25  confirmed
_________
114  'probable candidates'


There are over 100  'probable candidates' (they don't count).









and i didn't say two dozen...Here you go, Lazy...

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#714489

palsing wrote:
> 
> On Wednesday, November 21, 2018 at 11:44:17 PM UTC-8, The Starmaker wrote:
> > palsing wrote:
> > >
> > > On Wednesday, November 21, 2018 at 10:26:49 AM UTC-8, The Starmaker wrote:
> > > > palsing wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > On Tuesday, November 20, 2018 at 5:54:06 PM UTC-8, The Starmaker wrote:
> > > > > > palsing wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Tuesday, November 20, 2018 at 10:20:50 AM UTC-8, The Starmaker wrote:
> > > > > > > > The Starmaker wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > How many Black Holes are there?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > maybe yous people didn't understand the question...
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > How many Black Holes are there?  "are there?"
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "are there" means...in a place or position.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "are there"
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > How many Black Holes ... *are there*?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Look, I understand yous numbers guys like to say 'billions and billions'...
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 'billions and billions of earths', and 'billions and billions of black holes'...
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > but the question is...How many Black Holes are there?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > You know, confirmed..
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > is it 10... or around 20? maybe 25??
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Another guy who can't be bothered to look this up for himself, but would rather just make a wild-ass guess.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Here you go, Lazy...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_black_holes
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I count 139 on that page, including galaxies containing bit double and triple black holes.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > That link you provided reads:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This is an ordered list of the most massive black holes so far discovered (and probable candidates),
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You would have to omit (probable candidates) since "probable candidates" you cannot confirm that which you have no proof of.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I would estimate there are over 100 probable candidates.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > That leaves 10 balck holes... or around 20? or maybe even  25?? But certaintly not 130 since you didn't omit  probable candidates.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There you go, Lazy...
> > > > >
> > > > > In the interest of accuracy, the page says "This is a list of black holes (and stars considered probable candidates)". Note it says "stars" and not Supermassive black holes, which are definitely not individual stars.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Okay Lazy, here it is on the line you provided:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_black_holes
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Supermassive black holes and candidates
> > > >
> > > > (then under it it reads: See also: List of most massive black holes and List of quasars)
> > > >
> > > > Then, you put your mouse on the highlighted link:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > List of most massive black holes
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The link pop-up reads: This is an ordered list of the most massive black holes so far discovered (and probable candidates)
> > > >
> > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_massive_black_holes
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Here you go, Lazy...
> > >
> > > So, what's your point? 'Probable candidates' is a strong statement,
> >
> > Maybe you don't know what the word "Probable" means...it means no proof. How can you confirm something without proof?
> 
> Get a dictionary...
> 
> https://www.google.com/search?q=probable&rlz=1C1ILPI_enUS745US745&oq=probable&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l5.4949j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
> 
> prob·a·ble
> adjective
> 1.
> likely to be the case or to happen.
> "it is probable that the economic situation will deteriorate further"
> synonyms:       likely, most likely, odds-on, expected, anticipated, predictable, foreseeable, ten to one;
> 
> Besides, in science there is no such thing as "proof"...
> 
> https://www.google.com/search?q=is+there+proof+in+science%3F&rlz=1C1ILPI_enUS745US745&oq=is+there+proof+in+science%3F&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i64l3.6901j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
> 
> > >and I see where casually dismissed my question about how you 'estimated' that there were over 100 'probable candidates'?
> >
> >
> > The math is simple, you counted 139 black holes and I took away the  'probable candidates',
> 
> You cannot determine which ones are probable candidates... you are just making it up...


It's very easy to determined which ones are...confimed black holes from the canidate, ..unless if you're tooooo lazy.



> >
> >  139  Supermassive black holes and candidates
> > - 25  confirmed
> > _________
> > 114  'probable candidates'
> >
> >
> > There are over 100  'probable candidates' (they don't count).
> 
> Make it up as you go along...



Here you go, Lazy...find out how may are confirmed.


Separate the men from the boys...read a book.


laaaaazzzzzzzzzzeeeeeeey.


oh, i forgot...you get your 'specailized knowledge' from the...Internet. 


What do you call the rest of the 'billions and billions' of black holes????



garbage.

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#713899

On Saturday, November 17, 2018 at 10:35:18 PM UTC-8, The Starmaker wrote:
> How many Black Holes are there?

That is not a realistic question. Its like asking how many Earth type planets in the universe? Or how many universes are there in the cosmos? Get the picture Bert

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#713905

reber G=emc^2 wrote:
> On Saturday, November 17, 2018 at 10:35:18 PM UTC-8, The Starmaker wrote:
>> How many Black Holes are there?
> 
> That is not a realistic question.

“realistic” is not an adjective that fits the noun “question”.

The question is interesting because there is an answer that has a
more-than-average probability to be the correct one.

Rationale:

∙ There are at least 100 billion (short scale) galaxies in the observable
  universe.

∙ We assume (from our own galaxy and observation of nearby galaxies) that
  there is a supermassive black hole in the center of every spiral galaxy.

∙ We also know that there are stellar black holes in the observable
  universe.

∙ We must assume that the observable universe is only a fraction (some say
  10⁻¹⁰⁰) of our universe.

Conclusion: There are at least 100 billion black holes in our universe.

> Its like asking how many Earth type planets in the universe?

This can be estimated, too, given that we have found more than 3000
exoplanets in our galaxy, a percentage of them Earth-like.

> Or how many universes are there in the cosmos?

If by “cosmos” you mean the multiverse, if there is a multiverse and it is
infinite, then there are infinitely many universes.

-- 
PointedEars

Twitter: @PointedEars2
Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.

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