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Groups > sci.physics > #701094 > unrolled thread

Going Up!

Started byThe Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com>
First post2018-09-04 10:27 -0700
Last post2018-09-04 23:08 +0000
Articles 6 on this page of 46 — 9 participants

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  Going Up! The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-09-04 10:27 -0700
    Re: Going Up! Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-09-04 13:14 -0700
      Re: Going Up! Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-09-04 19:09 -0500
        Re: Going Up! Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-09-14 06:26 -0700
          Re: Going Up! john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-09-14 07:25 -0700
            Re: Going Up! Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-09-14 09:38 -0500
              Re: Going Up! john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-09-14 07:43 -0700
              Re: Going Up! benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-09-14 11:26 -0400
            Re: Going Up! Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-09-17 10:01 -0700
              Re: Going Up! john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-09-17 12:10 -0700
                Re: Going Up! Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-09-17 21:24 +0000
                  Re: Going Up! mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-17 14:34 -0700
                  Re: Going Up! john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-09-17 16:12 -0700
                    Re: Going Up! Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-09-17 23:22 +0000
                      Re: Going Up! john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-09-18 06:29 -0700
                        Re: Going Up! Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-09-18 14:30 +0000
                          Re: Going Up! john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-09-18 08:13 -0700
                            Re: Going Up! Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-09-18 16:22 +0000
                              Re: Going Up! john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-09-18 10:28 -0700
                                Re: Going Up! Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-09-18 18:52 +0000
                                  Re: Going Up! john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-09-18 11:55 -0700
                                    Re: Going Up! Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-09-18 20:04 +0000
                                      Re: Going Up! john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-09-18 13:11 -0700
                                        Re: Going Up! Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-09-18 21:27 +0000
                                          Re: Going Up! john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-09-18 14:30 -0700
                                            Re: Going Up! Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-09-19 00:02 +0000
                                              Re: Going Up! john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-09-18 17:20 -0700
                                                Re: Going Up! Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-09-19 00:42 +0000
                                    Re: Going Up! Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-09-18 13:29 -0700
                                      Re: Going Up! Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-09-18 18:51 -0500
                                        Re: Going Up! benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-09-18 21:06 -0400
                                          Re: Going Up! Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-09-18 21:26 -0500
                                            Re: Going Up! mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-18 19:38 -0700
                                              Re: Going Up! Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-09-18 21:48 -0500
                                                Re: Going Up! mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-18 19:51 -0700
                                            Re: Going Up! john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-09-19 07:01 -0700
                                              Re: Going Up! Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-09-19 13:31 -0700
                                            Re: Going Up! Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-09-19 13:29 -0700
                                              Re: Going Up! Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-09-19 21:00 -0500
                                        Re: Going Up! Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-09-19 13:14 -0700
                                          Re: Going Up! Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-09-19 21:08 -0500
                      Re: Going Up! john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-09-18 06:34 -0700
                        Re: Going Up! Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-09-18 14:30 +0000
        Re: Going Up! "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-09-19 22:37 -0700
          Re: Going Up! Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-09-20 10:09 -0500
    Re: Going Up! Haných Ltskáš <lnni@yawlucla.ha> - 2018-09-04 23:08 +0000

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#703587

FromSergio <invalid@invalid.com>
Date2018-09-19 21:08 -0500
Message-ID<pnuvf3$14j8$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#703535
On 9/19/2018 3:14 PM, Edward Prochak wrote:
> On Tuesday, September 18, 2018 at 7:51:36 PM UTC-4, Sergio wrote:
>> On 9/18/2018 3:29 PM, Edward Prochak wrote:
>>>
>>> A tower does not work as well as a tether design. With the center
>>> of mass slightly above geosynchronous orbit, a cable reaching down
>>> to earth's surface provides everything that is needed.
>>>
>>> No danger of collapse.
>>> deployment is achievable, especially with today's rockets.
>>>
>>> Only the cable is the tough part. material having consistent
>>> Tensile strength for a length over 35,000 km (21,000 miles)
>>> is a challenge.
>>>
> []
>>> It would have to be based at an equatorial country, one of
>>> 13 countries: Ecuador, Colombia, Brazil, Sao Tome & Principe,
>>> Gabon, Republic of the Congo, Democratic Republic of the Congo,
>>> Uganda, Kenya, Somalia, Maldives, Indonesia and Kiribati.
>>>
>>> Really, at this point it is only an engineering problem
>>> of building the cables and getting them in place.
>>>
>>> Enjoy,
>>> ed
>>>
>>
>> open questions;
>>
>> if not a tower, what is holding the cable up ?
>> is it a counterweight above geosync ?
> 
> yes
> 
>> would one still have to fix cable to the ground ?
> 
> Interesting question. I don't know the answer.
> 
>> how to keep the counterweight in position ?
> 
> It is geosynchronous. it orbits at the same angular speed
> that the earth turns. 

that is only at one point on the cable, no gravity

take a section of cable at a lower orbit, it has gravity (vector has
vertical component downward)

Above a section of cable has negitive gravity, thrown outward.

interesting problem, worth a look using velocity vector and
accelleration vector, on small segment of cable, then integrate over
parts of cable,  and sum the 'weight of cable due to gravity' from
ground up, etc...  (double that for stress on cable at Geosync)

> 
>> is the cable cutting lines of magnetic field?
> 
> The only significant magnetic field would be the earth's field.
> I am pretty sure that field turns with the earth and so the
> tether would not be moving relative to that field. So no induced
> currents AFAIK.
> 
> Great questions.
> Ed
>

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#703326

Fromjohn <johnsefton288@gmail.com>
Date2018-09-18 06:34 -0700
Message-ID<8af7c7d8-1f29-44f9-876a-0a983a39f6da@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#703245
Odd
“
I notice you seem unable to explain your rationale. 
“

Let me make this plainer. So you understand.

The things YOU believe show that you have distanced yourself from Logic. So the only logical thing to do is to ignore you- you’re just contrary.
Do you understand that?

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#703332

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2018-09-18 14:30 +0000
Message-ID<pnr26g$o1n$4@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#703326
john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> wrote:
> Odd
> “
> I notice you seem unable to explain your rationale. 
> “
> 
> Let me make this plainer. So you understand.
> 
> The things YOU believe show that you have distanced yourself from Logic.
> So the only logical thing to do is to ignore you- you’re just contrary.
> Do you understand that?
> 

Uh huh. So you are dodging and for some reason I’m to blame for your dodge.


-- 
Odd Bodkin — Maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#703617

From"Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid>
Date2018-09-19 22:37 -0700
Message-ID<pnvbmj$7hd$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#701151
On 9/4/2018 5:09 PM, Sergio wrote:
> On 9/4/2018 3:14 PM, Edward Prochak wrote:
>> On Tuesday, September 4, 2018 at 1:27:54 PM UTC-4, The Starmaker wrote:
>>> I thought someone here said taking an elevator to the Moon was not possible...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> https://phys.org/news/2018-09-japan-mini-space-elevator.html
>>>
>>>
>>> maybe your eyes are off slant.
>>
>> Maybe you cannot read. A "space elevator" only raises up to
>> a geosynchronous orbit. That is still a long way short of
>> the moon.
>>
>> Ed
>>
> 
> link outta above link; (still no engineering specifics on it, still in
> dreamland)
> 
> https://phys.org/news/2012-02-japan-builder-eyes-space-elevator.html
> 
>   A Japanese construction firm claimed Wednesday it could execute an
> out-of-this-world plan to put tourists in space within 40 years by
> building an elevator that stretches a quarter of the way to the moon.

https://youtu.be/vYdtNhtu0FQ

;^)

[...]

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#703647

FromSergio <invalid@invalid.com>
Date2018-09-20 10:09 -0500
Message-ID<po0d77$1gk0$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#703617
On 9/20/2018 12:37 AM, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
> On 9/4/2018 5:09 PM, Sergio wrote:
>> On 9/4/2018 3:14 PM, Edward Prochak wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, September 4, 2018 at 1:27:54 PM UTC-4, The Starmaker wrote:
>>>> I thought someone here said taking an elevator to the Moon was not
>>>> possible...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://phys.org/news/2018-09-japan-mini-space-elevator.html
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> maybe your eyes are off slant.
>>>
>>> Maybe you cannot read. A "space elevator" only raises up to
>>> a geosynchronous orbit. That is still a long way short of
>>> the moon.
>>>
>>> Ed
>>>
>>
>> link outta above link; (still no engineering specifics on it, still in
>> dreamland)
>>
>> https://phys.org/news/2012-02-japan-builder-eyes-space-elevator.html
>>
>>   A Japanese construction firm claimed Wednesday it could execute an
>> out-of-this-world plan to put tourists in space within 40 years by
>> building an elevator that stretches a quarter of the way to the moon.
> 
> https://youtu.be/vYdtNhtu0FQ
> 
> ;^)
> 
> [...]
> 

So, Japan is building space elevator !  that link was not fake news.

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#701144

FromHaných Ltskáš <lnni@yawlucla.ha>
Date2018-09-04 23:08 +0000
Message-ID<pmn38s$89d$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#701094
The Starmaker wrote:

> I thought someone here said taking an elevator to the Moon was not
> possible... https://phys.org/news/2018-09-japan-mini-space-elevator.html 
> maybe your eyes are off slant.

You have to balance the strain/stress tensor. The task is sort of 
impossible. And if possible to chain the two, then earth might be pulled 
out of the solar system. Or accelerate directly into the sun.

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