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Groups > sci.physics > #637497 > unrolled thread
| Started by | The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2017-06-23 14:17 -0700 |
| Last post | 2017-06-27 21:46 -0400 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 26 — 13 participants |
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The Big Bang and The Atomic Bomb The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2017-06-23 14:17 -0700
Re: The Big Bang and The Atomic Bomb The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2017-06-24 09:30 -0700
Re: The Big Bang and The Atomic Bomb The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2017-06-24 10:56 -0700
Re: The Big Bang and The Atomic Bomb Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2017-06-26 08:09 -0700
Re: The Big Bang and The Atomic Bomb Sегgi о <iinvalid@invalid.com> - 2017-06-26 10:17 -0500
Re: The Big Bang and The Atomic Bomb benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2017-06-26 18:16 -0400
Re: The Big Bang and The Atomic Bomb Hägar <hsahm@yahoo.com> - 2017-06-24 22:10 -0700
Re: The Big Bang and The Atomic Bomb The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2017-06-24 23:15 -0700
Re: The Big Bang and The Atomic Bomb Hägar <hsahm@yahoo.com> - 2017-06-25 07:48 -0700
Re: The Big Bang and The Atomic Bomb The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2017-06-25 10:29 -0700
Re: The Big Bang and The Atomic Bomb Whisper <beaver999@ozemail.com> - 2017-06-26 18:26 +1000
Re: The Big Bang and The Atomic Bomb Itu Ikosaku <tkiuu@iotkswwwswu.si> - 2017-06-25 09:45 +0000
Re: The Big Bang and The Atomic Bomb Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-06-25 12:24 +0200
Re: The Big Bang and The Atomic Bomb Sегgi о <iinvalid@invalid.com> - 2017-06-25 16:53 -0500
Re: The Big Bang and The Atomic Bomb Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-06-27 09:02 +0200
Re: The Big Bang and The Atomic Bomb "reber G=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2017-06-26 13:00 -0700
Re: The Big Bang and The Atomic Bomb "hanson" <hanson@quick.net> - 2017-06-26 16:45 -0700
The Big Bang and The Atomic Bomb fuller.david@hotmail.com - 2017-06-26 17:01 -0700
Re: The Big Bang and The Atomic Bomb Sегgi о <iinvalid@invalid.com> - 2017-06-26 19:14 -0500
Re: The Big Bang and The Atomic Bomb The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2017-06-26 18:16 -0700
Re: The Big Bang and The Atomic Bomb fuller.david@hotmail.com - 2017-06-26 18:30 -0700
Re: The Big Bang and The Atomic Bomb "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2017-06-27 00:26 -0700
Re: The Big Bang and The Atomic Bomb Sегgi о <iinvalid@invalid.com> - 2017-06-27 07:56 -0500
Re: The Big Bang and The Atomic Bomb "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2017-06-27 11:53 -0700
Re: The Big Bang and The Atomic Bomb Sегg io <innvalid@invalid.com> - 2017-06-27 19:56 -0500
Re: The Big Bang and The Atomic Bomb benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2017-06-27 21:46 -0400
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| From | The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-06-23 14:17 -0700 |
| Subject | The Big Bang and The Atomic Bomb |
| Message-ID | <594D8562.7057@ix.netcom.com> |
The Big Bang and The Atomic Bomb Do they have anything in common???? No way , right? Probably 100 percent nothing in common, right???? God forbid you would say the atomic bomb made a big bang! You're not allowed to ...think that, or say that! Not even wiki would dare to say the atomic bomb even made a noise... because it would sound like a big bang and we all know it is forbidden to associate a big bang with a atomic bomb. even though they both derive from the same...theory of ..relativity.. and the same author.. but any associatation with a big bang and the atomic bomb is...forbidden. but you know that already, right. Most men live lives of quite desperation...
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| From | The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-06-24 09:30 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <594E93B3.B4A@ix.netcom.com> |
| In reply to | #637497 |
The Starmaker wrote: > > The Big Bang and The Atomic Bomb > > Do they have anything in common???? > > No way , right? > > Probably 100 percent nothing in common, right???? > > God forbid you would say the atomic bomb made a big bang! You're not allowed to ...think that, or say that! > > Not even wiki would dare to say the atomic bomb even made a noise... > > because it would sound like a big bang and we all know it is forbidden to associate a big bang with a atomic bomb. > > even though they both derive from the same...theory of ..relativity.. > > and the same author.. > > but any associatation with a big bang and the atomic bomb is...forbidden. > > but you know that already, right. > > Most men live lives of quite desperation... If you try to look up what was the loudiest noise or sound made by man/loudest man-made sound on Google... a volcano keeps popping up. Obvisouly, The people at Google don't want you to know about atomic bomb noise. It's forbidden to talk about... because you would then have to ask..did it make a big bang??? Was it a Big Bang? Do things go bang anymore??? Did they remove Bang from the internet also???? It's suppose to be a loud noise....like a big bang. I'm pretty sure you heard the expression..."Like a big bang?" (before the Big Bang was invented) In other words...Did the atomic bomb make a noise? And how big of a noise/sound was it?? Was it like a big bang??? http://img.timeinc.net/time/magazine/archive/covers/1946/1101460701_400.jpg
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| From | The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-06-24 10:56 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <594EA7C9.12B6@ix.netcom.com> |
| In reply to | #637549 |
Hey kids out there and yous adults...ask your science teacher and science proffersors "When they tested the atomic bomb, or dropped the bomb on japan, did it make a loud noise, ...like.. a... Big Bang?" and then listen to their response... and come back here and tell me what their response was.. inquiring minds want to know. The Starmaker wrote: > > The Starmaker wrote: > > > > The Big Bang and The Atomic Bomb > > > > Do they have anything in common???? > > > > No way , right? > > > > Probably 100 percent nothing in common, right???? > > > > God forbid you would say the atomic bomb made a big bang! You're not allowed to ...think that, or say that! > > > > Not even wiki would dare to say the atomic bomb even made a noise... > > > > because it would sound like a big bang and we all know it is forbidden to associate a big bang with a atomic bomb. > > > > even though they both derive from the same...theory of ..relativity.. > > > > and the same author.. > > > > but any associatation with a big bang and the atomic bomb is...forbidden. > > > > but you know that already, right. > > > > Most men live lives of quite desperation... > > If you try to look up > what was the loudiest noise or sound made by man/loudest man-made sound > > on Google... > > a volcano keeps popping up. Obvisouly, The people at Google don't want you to know about atomic bomb noise. > > It's forbidden to talk about... > > because you would then have to ask..did it make a big bang??? > > Was it a Big Bang? > > Do things go bang anymore??? > > Did they remove Bang from the internet also???? > > It's suppose to be a loud noise....like a big bang. > > I'm pretty sure you heard the expression..."Like a big bang?" (before the Big Bang was invented) > > In other words...Did the atomic bomb make a noise? And how big of a noise/sound was it?? Was it like a big bang??? > > http://img.timeinc.net/time/magazine/archive/covers/1946/1101460701_400.jpg
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| From | Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-06-26 08:09 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <9b8cd187-8b1d-4552-80d5-34c3e2a2e7f9@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #637552 |
On Saturday, June 24, 2017 at 1:56:29 PM UTC-4, The Starmaker wrote: > Hey kids out there and yous adults...ask your science teacher and science proffersors > > "When they tested the atomic bomb, or dropped the bomb on japan, did it make a loud noise, ...like.. a... Big Bang?" > [] > > > > In other words...Did the atomic bomb make a noise? And how big of a noise/sound was it?? Was it like a big bang??? > > yes it was a big bang, but not a Big Bang. ed
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| From | Sегgi о <iinvalid@invalid.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-06-26 10:17 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <oir8jl$18j9$2@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #637770 |
On 6/26/2017 10:09 AM, Edward Prochak wrote: > On Saturday, June 24, 2017 at 1:56:29 PM UTC-4, The Starmaker wrote: >> Hey kids out there and yous adults...ask your science teacher and science proffersors >> >> "When they tested the atomic bomb, or dropped the bomb on japan, did it make a loud noise, ...like.. a... Big Bang?" >> > [] >>> >>> In other words...Did the atomic bomb make a noise? And how big of a noise/sound was it?? Was it like a big bang??? >>> > > yes it was a big bang, but not a Big Bang. > > ed > seems like it would be the big boom. Bang is like a firecracker...
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| From | benj <benj@nobody.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-06-26 18:16 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <595187b6$0$22659$c3e8da3$33881b6a@news.astraweb.com> |
| In reply to | #637770 |
On 6/26/2017 11:09 AM, Edward Prochak wrote: > On Saturday, June 24, 2017 at 1:56:29 PM UTC-4, The Starmaker wrote: >> Hey kids out there and yous adults...ask your science teacher and science proffersors >> >> "When they tested the atomic bomb, or dropped the bomb on japan, did it make a loud noise, ...like.. a... Big Bang?" >> > [] >>> >>> In other words...Did the atomic bomb make a noise? And how big of a noise/sound was it?? Was it like a big bang??? >>> > > yes it was a big bang, but not a Big Bang. > > ed > :-)
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| From | Hägar <hsahm@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-06-24 22:10 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <OICdnZYzbYNL2NLEnZ2dnUU7-K3NnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #637497 |
"The Starmaker" wrote in message news:594D8562.7057@ix.netcom.com... The Big Bang and The Atomic Bomb Do they have anything in common???? No way , right? Probably 100 percent nothing in common, right???? God forbid you would say the atomic bomb made a big bang! You're not allowed to ...think that, or say that! Not even wiki would dare to say the atomic bomb even made a noise... because it would sound like a big bang and we all know it is forbidden to associate a big bang with a atomic bomb. even though they both derive from the same...theory of ..relativity.. and the same author.. but any associatation with a big bang and the atomic bomb is...forbidden. but you know that already, right. Most men live lives of quite desperation... ***First off, it is "quiet desperation". Secondly, the phrase was plagiarized from the song "Time" of the Dark Side album... ... Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way ... You're welcome ... not as original as you thought you were ...
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| From | The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-06-24 23:15 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <594F54FF.1D4E@ix.netcom.com> |
| In reply to | #637636 |
Hägar wrote: > > "The Starmaker" wrote in message news:594D8562.7057@ix.netcom.com... > > The Big Bang and The Atomic Bomb > > Do they have anything in common???? > > No way , right? > > Probably 100 percent nothing in common, right???? > > God forbid you would say the atomic bomb made a big bang! You're not allowed > to ...think that, or say that! > > Not even wiki would dare to say the atomic bomb even made a noise... > > because it would sound like a big bang and we all know it is forbidden to > associate a big bang with a atomic bomb. > > even though they both derive from the same...theory of ..relativity.. > > and the same author.. > > but any associatation with a big bang and the atomic bomb is...forbidden. > > but you know that already, right. > > Most men live lives of quite desperation... > > ***First off, it is "quiet desperation". Secondly, the phrase was > plagiarized from the song "Time" of the Dark Side album... > ... Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way ... > You're welcome ... not as original as you thought you were ... Be yourself; everyone else is already taken.
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| From | Hägar <hsahm@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-06-25 07:48 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <yvKdnZLj8q3_UNLEnZ2dnUU7-KnNnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #637637 |
"The Starmaker" wrote in message news:594F54FF.1D4E@ix.netcom.com... Hägar wrote: > > "The Starmaker" wrote in message news:594D8562.7057@ix.netcom.com... > > The Big Bang and The Atomic Bomb > > Do they have anything in common???? > > No way , right? > > Probably 100 percent nothing in common, right???? > > God forbid you would say the atomic bomb made a big bang! You're not > allowed > to ...think that, or say that! > > Not even wiki would dare to say the atomic bomb even made a noise... > > because it would sound like a big bang and we all know it is forbidden to > associate a big bang with a atomic bomb. > > even though they both derive from the same...theory of ..relativity.. > > and the same author.. > > but any associatation with a big bang and the atomic bomb is...forbidden. > > but you know that already, right. > > Most men live lives of quite desperation... > > ***First off, it is "quiet desperation". Secondly, the phrase was > plagiarized from the song "Time" of the Dark Side album... > ... Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way ... > You're welcome ... not as original as you thought you were ... Be yourself; everyone else is already taken. *** yet another of your enigmatic pearls od wisdom ???
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| From | The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-06-25 10:29 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <594FF317.F79@ix.netcom.com> |
| In reply to | #637655 |
Hägar wrote: > > "The Starmaker" wrote in message news:594F54FF.1D4E@ix.netcom.com... > > Hägar wrote: > > > > "The Starmaker" wrote in message news:594D8562.7057@ix.netcom.com... > > > > The Big Bang and The Atomic Bomb > > > > Do they have anything in common???? > > > > No way , right? > > > > Probably 100 percent nothing in common, right???? > > > > God forbid you would say the atomic bomb made a big bang! You're not > > allowed > > to ...think that, or say that! > > > > Not even wiki would dare to say the atomic bomb even made a noise... > > > > because it would sound like a big bang and we all know it is forbidden to > > associate a big bang with a atomic bomb. > > > > even though they both derive from the same...theory of ..relativity.. > > > > and the same author.. > > > > but any associatation with a big bang and the atomic bomb is...forbidden. > > > > but you know that already, right. > > > > Most men live lives of quite desperation... > > > > ***First off, it is "quiet desperation". Secondly, the phrase was > > plagiarized from the song "Time" of the Dark Side album... > > ... Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way ... > > You're welcome ... not as original as you thought you were ... > > Be yourself; everyone else is already taken. > > *** yet another of your enigmatic pearls od wisdom ??? what goe up must come down
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| From | Whisper <beaver999@ozemail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-06-26 18:26 +1000 |
| Message-ID | <cf-dnU1hiJy_WM3EnZ2dnUU7-XGdnZ2d@westnet.com.au> |
| In reply to | #637659 |
On 26/06/2017 3:29 AM, The Starmaker wrote: > Hägar wrote: > > > what goe up must come down > What is 'up'? --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. http://www.avg.com
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| From | Itu Ikosaku <tkiuu@iotkswwwswu.si> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-06-25 09:45 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <oio0nh$3if$2@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #637636 |
Hägar wrote: > God forbid you would say the atomic bomb made a big bang! You're not > allowed to ...think that, or say that! How about microscopic big bangs
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| From | Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-06-25 12:24 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <2865744.oiGErgHkdL@PointedEars.de> |
| In reply to | #637647 |
The ’nym-shifting troll wrote as "Itu Ikosaku": > Hägar wrote: >> God forbid you would say the atomic bomb made a big bang! >> You're not allowed to ...think that, or say that! > > How about microscopic big bangs Possible, but not caused by an atomic bomb. And contrary to common misconception, Big Bangs in cosmology are simply _not_ explosions. That has nothing to do with any permissions; it is simply *incorrect* to say otherwise, and those who say otherwise just demonstrate that they do not know what they are talking about. *PLONK* F'up2 .relativity -- PointedEars Twitter: @PointedEars2 Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.
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| From | Sегgi о <iinvalid@invalid.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-06-25 16:53 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <oipbda$brf$1@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #637636 |
On 6/25/2017 12:10 AM, Hägar wrote:
> "The Starmaker" wrote in message news:594D8562.7057@ix.netcom.com...
>
> The Big Bang and The Atomic Bomb
>
> Do they have anything in common????
yes, they were both very very loud.
>
>
> Most men live lives of quite desperation...
is that what you are feeling ?
Why are you being sexist about it?
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| From | Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-06-27 09:02 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <2838912.aV6nBDHxoP@PointedEars.de> |
| In reply to | #637693 |
Sегgi о amok-crossposted to 3 newsgroups: ^^^^^^^ Your real name belongs there. > On 6/25/2017 12:10 AM, Hägar wrote: >> The Big Bang and The Atomic Bomb >> >> Do they have anything in common???? > > > yes, they were both very very loud. No, “loud” is *precisely* what the Big Bang (BB) was definitely _not_. Contrary to an atomic bomb, the BB was *silent* because there was no medium to transport sound yet – gases could not form before 380'000 years *after* the BB, when the universal temperature was low enough for that – nor was anyone there to hear it anyway. And it was *dark* because photons did not exist until 10 seconds *after* the BB. (The only similarity between the BB and an atomic bomb is high temperature – but the temperature of the universe shortly after the BB was millions of orders of magnitude higher than that of an atomar explosion, at least 10³² K compared to at most only 300'000 K.) The BB was the *beginning* of an *expansion* of our *universe*, _not_ an explosion of something. The term was introduced by Fred Hoyle, an English astronomer, to *deride* the (now well-confirmed) theory of the expansion of our universe because he *doubted* it, and the term stuck. (Hoyle preferred his Steady State theory instead and kept defending it until his death, despite all observations to the contrary.) *Learn* what you are talking about *before* you are talking about it: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang> >> Most men live lives of quite desperation... > > is that what you are feeling ? > > Why are you being sexist about it? That assumption is unwarranted, probably based on your not being a native speaker of English (I am not either, but I speak it at near-native level). Although it is probably wiser to use the term “human” and “humankind” then, “men” can refer to the population of Homo sapiens that identifies themselves with the male gender, or to *the species as a whole*, and it did so historically. “mankind” is even universally understood to refer to the entire species – past, present, and future. For example: | We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, | […] —United States Declaration of Independence | That’s one small step for [a] man, one giant leap for mankind. —Neil Armstrong’s first public words on the Moon F'up2 sci.physics -- PointedEars Twitter: @PointedEars2 Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.
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| From | "reber G=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-06-26 13:00 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <0bde05d4-5c56-4890-aa20-83c1508b3979@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #637497 |
On Friday, June 23, 2017 at 2:16:46 PM UTC-7, The Starmaker wrote: > The Big Bang and The Atomic Bomb > > Do they have anything in common???? > > > > No way , right? > > > Probably 100 percent nothing in common, right???? > > > God forbid you would say the atomic bomb made a big bang! You're not allowed to ...think that, or say that! > > > Not even wiki would dare to say the atomic bomb even made a noise... > > > because it would sound like a big bang and we all know it is forbidden to associate a big bang with a atomic bomb. > > > even though they both derive from the same...theory of ..relativity.. > > and the same author.. > > > but any associatation with a big bang and the atomic bomb is...forbidden. > > > but you know that already, right. > > > Most men live lives of quite desperation... Both relate to QM TreBert
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| From | "hanson" <hanson@quick.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-06-26 16:45 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <ois65l$sej$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #637795 |
<"reber G=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> alias <http://tinyurl.com/Loudmouth-Glazier-8Feb2017> ranted against: "Annenberg" who didn't end up in a Minnie Mouse Van, like Bert is. "Kissenger" who did not shit into a bucket, like Bert does. "Nixon" who started the Space Shuttle program while Bert started the <http://tinyurl.com/Blog-of-2-fecal-kikes-Mar2017> to shows his Radical Extremism of Jewish Supremacy and bragged to be a Face Shitter & a criminal Graveyard Vandal. "reber G=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> wrote in message news:0bde05d4-5c56-4890-aa20-83c1508b3979@googlegroups.com... > On Friday, June 23, 2017 at 2:16:46 PM UTC-7, The Starmaker wrote: >> The Big Bang and The Atomic Bomb >> Do they have anything in common???? >> No way , right? >> Probably 100 percent nothing in common, right???? >> God forbid you would say the atomic bomb made a big bang! You're not >> allowed to ...think that, or say that! >> Not even wiki would dare to say the atomic bomb even made a noise... >> because it would sound like a big bang and we all know it is forbidden to >> associate a big bang with a atomic bomb. >> even though they both derive from the same...theory of ..relativity.. >> and the same author.. >> but any associatation with a big bang and the atomic bomb is...forbidden. >> but you know that already, right. >> Most men live lives of quite desperation... > <"reber G=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> alias <http://tinyurl.com/Loudmouth-Glazier-8Feb2017> wrote > "Both relate to Bert's _Quixotic Mentation_" (QM) TreBert
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| From | fuller.david@hotmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-06-26 17:01 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <559cecaa-c0ea-47f9-a778-9fbf41955739@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #637497 |
Jun 23The Starmaker The Big Bang and The Atomic Bomb Do they have anything in common???? What they have in common is ....... You understand Zero % of Either of them because it would sound like a big bang and we all know it is forbidden to associate a big bang with a atomic bomb.
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| From | Sегgi о <iinvalid@invalid.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-06-26 19:14 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <ois81h$11ee$1@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #637853 |
On 6/26/2017 7:01 PM, fuller.david@hotmail.com wrote: > Jun 23The Starmaker > The Big Bang and The Atomic Bomb > > Do they have anything in common???? > > What they have in common is ....... > You understand Zero % of Either of them > > > because it would sound like a big bang and we all know it is forbidden to associate a big bang with a atomic bomb. > it really depends upon how far away you are from where it went off. if you were within a 1/2 mile, both would have vaporized you, so you would not have been able to make a judgement. if you were 10 miles away, you would have called the atom bomb, #$@%^# @#%$&! BANG!!! if you were 100 miles away you would have called it a "big bang". but for the big bang, at any distance you would have vaporized, so no judgement. so, as usealle, Starfarter is wrong. (ma spelt checker is nuked)
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| From | The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-06-26 18:16 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <5951B1D0.21D@ix.netcom.com> |
| In reply to | #637853 |
fuller.david@hotmail.com wrote: > > Jun 23The Starmaker > The Big Bang and The Atomic Bomb > > Do they have anything in common???? > > What they have in common is ....... > You understand Zero % of Either of them > > because it would sound like a big bang and we all know it is forbidden to associate a big bang with a atomic bomb. can you hear...big numbers?
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