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NASA proposes artificial magnetic field to make Mars a second home

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  NASA proposes artificial magnetic field to make Mars a second home Yousuf Khan <bbbl67@spammenot.yahoo.com> - 2017-03-08 07:42 -0500
    NASA proposes artificial magnetic field to make Mars a second home john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-03-08 05:09 -0800
    Re: NASA proposes artificial magnetic field to make Mars a second home S Ergio <invlid@invalid.com> - 2017-03-08 08:16 -0600
      Re: NASA proposes artificial magnetic field to make Mars a second home Yousuf Khan <bbbl67@spammenot.yahoo.com> - 2017-03-08 11:40 -0500
        Re: NASA proposes artificial magnetic field to make Mars a second home S Ergio <invlid@invalid.com> - 2017-03-08 11:51 -0600
          Re: NASA proposes artificial magnetic field to make Mars a second home Yousuf Khan <bbbl67@spammenot.yahoo.com> - 2017-03-08 22:44 -0500
            Re: NASA proposes artificial magnetic field to make Mars a second  home The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2017-03-08 23:36 -0800
              Re: NASA proposes artificial magnetic field to make Mars a second  home john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-03-09 00:37 -0800
                Re: NASA proposes artificial magnetic field to make Mars a second home Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-03-09 06:28 -0600
                  Re: NASA proposes artificial magnetic field to make Mars a second home john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-03-09 05:47 -0800
                    Re: NASA proposes artificial magnetic field to make Mars a second home Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-03-09 08:24 -0600
                  Re: NASA proposes artificial magnetic field to make Mars a second home benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2017-03-09 18:22 -0500
                Re: NASA proposes artificial magnetic field to make Mars a second  home The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2017-03-09 10:07 -0800
            Re: NASA proposes artificial magnetic field to make Mars a second home S Ergio <invlid@invalid.com> - 2017-03-09 08:47 -0600
              Re: NASA proposes artificial magnetic field to make Mars a second home "Rodney Pont" <mlist4@infohit.me.uk> - 2017-03-09 16:21 +0000
                Re: NASA proposes artificial magnetic field to make Mars a second home S Ergio <invlid@invalid.com> - 2017-03-09 10:50 -0600
                  Re: NASA proposes artificial magnetic field to make Mars a second home john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-03-09 09:13 -0800
                    Re: NASA proposes artificial magnetic field to make Mars a second home Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-03-09 13:17 -0600
                      Re: NASA proposes artificial magnetic field to make Mars a second home john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-03-09 12:08 -0800
                        Re: NASA proposes artificial magnetic field to make Mars a second home Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-03-09 14:24 -0600
                        Re: NASA proposes artificial magnetic field to make Mars a second home S Ergio <invlid@invalid.com> - 2017-03-09 15:45 -0600
                          Re: NASA proposes artificial magnetic field to make Mars a second home S Ergio <invlid@invalid.com> - 2017-03-09 15:47 -0600
                            Re: NASA proposes artificial magnetic field to make Mars a second home john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-03-09 14:24 -0800
                              Re: NASA proposes artificial magnetic field to make Mars a second home S Ergio <invlid@invalid.com> - 2017-03-09 17:14 -0600
                              Re: NASA proposes artificial magnetic field to make Mars a second home benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2017-03-09 18:42 -0500
                  Re: NASA proposes artificial magnetic field to make Mars a second home "Rodney Pont" <mlist4@infohit.me.uk> - 2017-03-09 19:04 +0000
                    Re: NASA proposes artificial magnetic field to make Mars a second home S Ergio <invlid@invalid.com> - 2017-03-09 15:31 -0600
                      Re: NASA proposes artificial magnetic field to make Mars a second home "Rodney Pont" <mlist4@infohit.me.uk> - 2017-03-10 05:43 +0000
                      Re: NASA proposes artificial magnetic field to make Mars a second home Yousuf Khan <bbbl67@spammenot.yahoo.com> - 2017-03-10 01:42 -0500
              Re: NASA proposes artificial magnetic field to make Mars a second home Yousuf Khan <bbbl67@spammenot.yahoo.com> - 2017-03-09 21:37 -0500
                Re: NASA proposes artificial magnetic field to make Mars a second home "Rodney Pont" <mlist4@infohit.me.uk> - 2017-03-10 05:38 +0000
                  Re: NASA proposes artificial magnetic field to make Mars a second home Yousuf Khan <bbbl67@spammenot.yahoo.com> - 2017-03-10 01:51 -0500
                    Re: NASA proposes artificial magnetic field to make Mars a second home "Rodney Pont" <mlist4@infohit.me.uk> - 2017-03-10 07:21 +0000
                      Re: NASA proposes artificial magnetic field to make Mars a second home Yousuf Khan <bbbl67@spammenot.yahoo.com> - 2017-03-10 08:24 -0500
                        Re: NASA proposes artificial magnetic field to make Mars a second home john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-03-10 07:25 -0800
                          Re: NASA proposes artificial magnetic field to make Mars a second home Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-03-10 09:29 -0600
                            Re: NASA proposes artificial magnetic field to make Mars a second home Serg io <invalid@invalid.com> - 2017-03-10 14:57 -0600
                            Re: NASA proposes artificial magnetic field to make Mars a second home benj <nobody@gmail.com> - 2017-03-10 21:12 -0500
                              Re: NASA proposes artificial magnetic field to make Mars a second home Serg io <invalid@invalid.com> - 2017-03-10 20:33 -0600
                                Re: NASA proposes artificial magnetic field to make Mars a second home john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-03-11 05:19 -0800
                                  Re: NASA proposes artificial magnetic field to make Mars a second home Serg io <invalid@invalid.com> - 2017-03-11 07:50 -0600
                                    Re: NASA proposes artificial magnetic field to make Mars a second home john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-03-11 07:08 -0800
                                      Re: NASA proposes artificial magnetic field to make Mars a second home Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-03-11 13:54 -0600
            Re: NASA proposes artificial magnetic field to make Mars a second home noTthaTguY <abu.kuanysh05@gmail.com> - 2017-03-12 18:05 -0700
              Re: NASA proposes artificial magnetic field to make Mars a second home Alan Folmsbee <omnilobe@gmail.com> - 2017-03-12 22:52 -0700
      Re: NASA proposes artificial magnetic field to make Mars a second home Dr J R Stockton <reply1700@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2017-03-11 21:54 +0000
        Re: NASA proposes artificial magnetic field to make Mars a second home john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-03-11 22:43 -0800
        Re: NASA proposes artificial magnetic field to make Mars a second home Serg io <invalid@invalid.com> - 2017-03-12 11:52 -0500
          Re: NASA proposes artificial magnetic field to make Mars a second home Alan Folmsbee <omnilobe@gmail.com> - 2017-03-12 10:20 -0700
            Re: NASA proposes artificial magnetic field to make Mars a second home Serg io <invalid@invalid.com> - 2017-03-12 13:33 -0500
              Re: NASA proposes artificial magnetic field to make Mars a second home Alan Folmsbee <omnilobe@gmail.com> - 2017-03-12 13:30 -0700
                Re: NASA proposes artificial magnetic field to make Mars a second home Serg io <invalid@invalid.com> - 2017-03-12 18:22 -0500
    Re: NASA proposes artificial magnetic field to make Mars a second home Otplate Yuugaku <yu@yotwaglwt.pa> - 2017-03-08 15:32 +0000
    Re: NASA proposes artificial magnetic field to make Mars a second home Otplate Yuugaku <yu@yotwaglwt.pa> - 2017-03-08 15:52 +0000
    Re: NASA proposes artificial magnetic field to make Mars a second home "reber G=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2017-03-08 09:17 -0800
      Re: NASA proposes artificial magnetic field to make Mars a second home "hanson" <hanson@quick.net> - 2017-03-08 12:43 -0800
    Re: NASA proposes artificial magnetic field to make Mars a second home The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2017-03-08 10:38 -0800

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#622125 — NASA proposes artificial magnetic field to make Mars a second home

http://www.zdnet.com/article/nasa-proposes-artificial-magnetic-field-to-make-mars-a-second-home/

> However, researchers have proposed a way to make Mars more habitable -- by creating an artificial magnetic field to reduce radiation levels.
>
> To combat some of the main barriers to sending humans to Mars, as reported by Universe Today, last week, NASA hosted a discussion and presentation group called the Planetary Science Vision 2050 Workshop.
>
> At the event, scientists and researchers discussed the future possibilities of space exploration, and during one talk, NASA Planetary Science Division Director Dr. Jim Green proposed ways to deploy a magnetic shield around the planet which could act as a barrier to radiation and reduce the need for extreme protective equipment.
>
> The proposal (.PDF) relies on the theory that over four billion years ago, the planet's magnetic field vanished, turning the planet from a warm, wet environment to a dry husk. Without returning some kind of magnetic field to Mars, this situation will not change.
>
> Green proposes that by placing a magnetic dipole shield at the Mars L1 Lagrange Point, a man-made magnetosphere sphere would cradle the entire planet.
>
> The team says that previous tests in lab conditions suggest that inflatable structures could potentially generate a magnetic dipole field at a level of perhaps 1 or 2 Tesla, protecting against both radiation and solar winds.
>
> In addition, such a field could result in Mars' atmosphere thickening over time, creating a greenhouse effect which could increase the planet's surface temperature by up to four degrees and melt northern polar ice caps.
>
> While Green admits the idea is somewhat "fanciful," the scientists insist that it is not outside the realm of possibility, and could assist in the future exploration of the planet.

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#622127

Stupid. Like mud.

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#622134

On 3/8/2017 6:42 AM, Yousuf Khan wrote:
> http://www.zdnet.com/article/nasa-proposes-artificial-magnetic-field-to-make-mars-a-second-home/
>
>
>> However, researchers have proposed a way to make Mars more habitable
>> -- by creating an artificial magnetic field to reduce radiation levels.
>>
>> To combat some of the main barriers to sending humans to Mars, as
>> reported by Universe Today, last week, NASA hosted a discussion and
>> presentation group called the Planetary Science Vision 2050 Workshop.

>> At the event, scientists and researchers discussed the future
>> possibilities of space exploration, and during one talk, NASA
>> Planetary Science Division Director Dr. Jim Green proposed ways to
>> deploy a magnetic shield around the planet which could act as a
>> barrier to radiation and reduce the need for extreme protective
>> equipment.
>>
>> The proposal (.PDF) relies on the theory that over four billion years
>> ago, the planet's magnetic field vanished, turning the planet from a
>> warm, wet environment to a dry husk. Without returning some kind of
>> magnetic field to Mars, this situation will not change.
>>
>> Green proposes that by placing a magnetic dipole shield at the Mars L1
>> Lagrange Point, a man-made magnetosphere sphere would cradle the
>> entire planet.

how far away is Mars L1 Lagrange Point from Mars ?

about 141,000,000 miles.

how does magnetic field strength decline with distance ?

1/d^2  ?

so you need a magnet of at least 2*10^16 telsa ? ?


why not just put it on the surface ? by the way, you will have to water 
cool it too.

extra credit questions;

1. how much water is needed to cool magnet that generates a 1 T field 
100,000 miles away. (how is this water stored?)

2. how much electricity in megawatts is required to run magnet, then to 
pump water.

3. what % of partials will be deflected away and outside a 100 mile zone 
on the surface around the magnet? (assume 98% speed of light)

4. What type of partials will be hardly by magnet ?




>>
>> While Green admits the idea is somewhat "fanciful,"

this dude works at NASA ???

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#622154

On 3/8/2017 9:16 AM, S Ergio wrote:
> On 3/8/2017 6:42 AM, Yousuf Khan wrote:
>> http://www.zdnet.com/article/nasa-proposes-artificial-magnetic-field-to-make-mars-a-second-home/
>>
>
> how far away is Mars L1 Lagrange Point from Mars ?
>
> about 141,000,000 miles.

You're completely wrong. You can be sure that you're completely wrong 
because that distance is greater than the distance between the Earth and 
the Sun! The distance you came up with is the distance between the Sun 
and Mars.

The L1 point for Mars is actually about 655,000 miles, or about 1 
million kilometers.

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=lagrange+point+Mars+Sun

> how does magnetic field strength decline with distance ?
>
> 1/d^2  ?
>
> so you need a magnet of at least 2*10^16 telsa ? ?

Earth's magnetic field at the surface is only 54 microteslas. The 
devices they are talking about are about 1 or 2 teslas, which should be 
enough to protect Mars.

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=strength+of+Earth%27s+magnetic+field

> why not just put it on the surface ? by the way, you will have to water
> cool it too.

On the surface, you'd need multiple devices. In orbit, only need the one.

The power source is likely to be the Sun, through solar panels. Cooling 
through radiators into space.

>>> While Green admits the idea is somewhat "fanciful,"
>
> this dude works at NASA ???

Why not? You've certainly shown that you don't know what you're talking 
about.

	Yousuf Khan

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#622162

On 3/8/2017 10:40 AM, Yousuf Khan wrote:
> On 3/8/2017 9:16 AM, S Ergio wrote:
>> On 3/8/2017 6:42 AM, Yousuf Khan wrote:
>>> http://www.zdnet.com/article/nasa-proposes-artificial-magnetic-field-to-make-mars-a-second-home/
>>>
>>>
>>
>> how far away is Mars L1 Lagrange Point from Mars ?
>>
>> about 141,000,000 miles.
>
> You're completely wrong. You can be sure that you're completely wrong
> because that distance is greater than the distance between the Earth and
> the Sun! The distance you came up with is the distance between the Sun
> and Mars.
>
> The L1 point for Mars is actually about 655,000 miles, or about 1
> million kilometers.
>
> http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=lagrange+point+Mars+Sun
>
>> how does magnetic field strength decline with distance ?
>>
>> 1/d^2  ?
>>
>> so you need a magnet of at least 2*10^16 telsa ? ?
>
> Earth's magnetic field at the surface is only 54 microteslas. The
> devices they are talking about are about 1 or 2 teslas, which should be
> enough to protect Mars.
>
> http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=strength+of+Earth%27s+magnetic+field
>
>> why not just put it on the surface ? by the way, you will have to water
>> cool it too.
>
> On the surface, you'd need multiple devices. In orbit, only need the one.
>
> The power source is likely to be the Sun, through solar panels. Cooling
> through radiators into space.

for small energy useage.

>
>>>> While Green admits the idea is somewhat "fanciful,"
>>
>> this dude works at NASA ???
>
> Why not? You've certainly shown that you don't know what you're talking
> about.
>
>     Yousuf Khan

thanks for the info,

that dude should have provided the numbers to back himself up, back of 
the envelope should do.


so how much is the field 655,000 miles away from a one T source ?

how much fuel on board with the sattilite need to compensate for pushing 
particals around?

Gamma rays are not deflected and come in at full strength to the ground, 
on earth the atmosphere protects us from 95% of them. so how much gamma 
can a crew take ? a year or two ?

and again, to cosmic rays, at what angle can they be deflected  from 
orgional their path, using a magnetic field, is it only 1 or 2 degrees ?

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#622223

On 3/8/2017 12:51 PM, S Ergio wrote:
> thanks for the info,
>
> that dude should have provided the numbers to back himself up, back of
> the envelope should do.

I'm sure he has, this is just a popular science article which summarizes 
his proposal, and gives you an idea about what some scientists have come 
up with. It's up to you to go see his original proposal paper, if you 
want more details.

> so how much is the field 655,000 miles away from a one T source ?

Actually the magnetic field strength drops away by a factor of inverse 
cubed not inverse squared. But it really doesn't matter how strong the 
magnetic field is at the surface of Mars, just so long as it's ahead of 
Mars and it produces a large enough bow shock pattern, similar to how 
the bow shock pattern is produced ahead of Earth, diverting the solar 
wind away from Earth.

> how much fuel on board with the sattilite need to compensate for pushing
> particals around?

Don't know, perhaps they'll find a clever way to use the magnetic field 
itself as a propulsion tool to keep it stable in the L1?

> Gamma rays are not deflected and come in at full strength to the ground,
> on earth the atmosphere protects us from 95% of them. so how much gamma
> can a crew take ? a year or two ?

The magnetic field doesn't protect against any kind of EM radiation, no 
matter what. All it protects against is the solar winds. This in turn 
creates a shield of the upper atmosphere to protect against the high 
energy photons from penetrating into the lower atmosphere.

Fortunately, gamma rays are usually an uncommon type of photons in the 
universe, as most of the gamma rays occur inside the cores of stars 
during nuclear fusion, and they all get diffused into lower energy 
photons by the time they exit the star's photosphere. Most sources of 
raw gamma rays are things such as supernovas and quasars, and those are 
very directional in their nature. Another advantage is that these 
sources of gamma rays are also pretty distant.

> and again, to cosmic rays, at what angle can they be deflected  from
> orgional their path, using a magnetic field, is it only 1 or 2 degrees ?

Earth's magnetic field doesn't stop cosmic rays either, they tend to hit 
the Earth relatively unopposed. Again fortunately due to the fact that 
cosmic rays are high energy particles produced by supernovas and active 
galactic nuclei, they are relatively rare. Most of the cosmic rays are 
diverted by the Sun's magnetic field rather than any single planet's 
(though Jupiter's might be strong enough to divert some too).

Most cosmic rays are travelling at relativistic speeds, so no puny 
magnetic field short of a magnetar is going to do much to divert any 
cosmic rays. We used to use cosmic ray showers in the atmosphere to 
detect new particles, prior to the advent of supercolliders.

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#622244 — Re: NASA proposes artificial magnetic field to make Mars a second home

Yousuf Khan wrote:
> 
> On 3/8/2017 12:51 PM, S Ergio wrote:
> > thanks for the info,
> >
> > that dude should have provided the numbers to back himself up, back of
> > the envelope should do.
> 
> I'm sure he has, this is just a popular science article which summarizes
> his proposal, and gives you an idea about what some scientists have come
> up with. It's up to you to go see his original proposal paper, if you
> want more details.
> 
> > so how much is the field 655,000 miles away from a one T source ?
> 
> Actually the magnetic field strength drops away by a factor of inverse
> cubed not inverse squared. But it really doesn't matter how strong the
> magnetic field is at the surface of Mars, just so long as it's ahead of
> Mars and it produces a large enough bow shock pattern, similar to how
> the bow shock pattern is produced ahead of Earth, diverting the solar
> wind away from Earth.
> 
> > how much fuel on board with the sattilite need to compensate for pushing
> > particals around?
> 
> Don't know, perhaps they'll find a clever way to use the magnetic field
> itself as a propulsion tool to keep it stable in the L1?
> 
> > Gamma rays are not deflected and come in at full strength to the ground,
> > on earth the atmosphere protects us from 95% of them. so how much gamma
> > can a crew take ? a year or two ?
> 
> The magnetic field doesn't protect against any kind of EM radiation, no
> matter what. All it protects against is the solar winds. This in turn
> creates a shield of the upper atmosphere to protect against the high
> energy photons from penetrating into the lower atmosphere.
> 
> Fortunately, gamma rays are usually an uncommon type of photons in the
> universe, as most of the gamma rays occur inside the cores of stars
> during nuclear fusion, and they all get diffused into lower energy
> photons by the time they exit the star's photosphere. Most sources of
> raw gamma rays are things such as supernovas and quasars, and those are
> very directional in their nature. Another advantage is that these
> sources of gamma rays are also pretty distant.
> 
> > and again, to cosmic rays, at what angle can they be deflected  from
> > orgional their path, using a magnetic field, is it only 1 or 2 degrees ?
> 
> Earth's magnetic field doesn't stop cosmic rays either, they tend to hit
> the Earth relatively unopposed. Again fortunately due to the fact that
> cosmic rays are high energy particles produced by supernovas and active
> galactic nuclei, they are relatively rare. Most of the cosmic rays are
> diverted by the Sun's magnetic field rather than any single planet's
> (though Jupiter's might be strong enough to divert some too).
> 
> Most cosmic rays are travelling at relativistic speeds, so no puny
> magnetic field short of a magnetar is going to do much to divert any
> cosmic rays. We used to use cosmic ray showers in the atmosphere to
> detect new particles, prior to the advent of supercolliders.



"This may sound “fanciful” but new research is starting 
to emerge revealing that a miniature magnetsphere can 
be used to protect humans
and spacecraft."



He could at least learn how to spel....magnetsphere.
http://www.hou.usra.edu/meetings/V2050/pdf/8250.pdf



fan·ci·ful
'fans?f?l/
adjective
adjective: fanciful

    (of a person or their thoughts and ideas) overimaginative and unrealistic.



At least he's honest about his thinking...unrealstic.



Put him in charge of ...NASA.

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#622247 — Re: NASA proposes artificial magnetic field to make Mars a second home

Just build the Space Elevator right
out to Mars and plug in.

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#622266

On 3/9/2017 2:37 AM, john wrote:
> Just build the Space Elevator right
> out to Mars and plug in.
>

LOL, John.
You might be interested in a small fact.
The distance between the Earth and Mars varies from 55 Gm to 401 Gm.
Kinda tricky to build a cable that stretches that much.

-- 
Odd Bodkin -- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#622270

Odd
"
Kinda tricky to build a cable that stretches that much. "

Just build it far enough to 
deliver payload when it gets to its closest
point.
You can do it Odd!

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#622273

On 3/9/2017 7:47 AM, john wrote:
> Odd
> "
> Kinda tricky to build a cable that stretches that much. "
>
> Just build it far enough to
> deliver payload when it gets to its closest
> point.
> You can do it Odd!
>

Then there's the problem that the space elevator has to swing around 
with the rotation of the earth, so that at a distance of 55 million 
kilometers (the distance of closest approach), the Mars end of the 
elevator is swinging by the drop point at 6300 km/hr. That's about Mach 5.

Also keep in mind that 6300 km/hr is not the natural orbital speed at 
that radius, so you'd have to fire rockets constantly to keep that 
terminus point in that orbit. So there's then the question of getting 
fuel piped up there.

The point of the space elevator is that the terminus is specifically at 
the geosynchronous orbit. The space elevator idea does not work for any 
other orbital radius. I'm surprised you didn't know that. Oh, maybe I'm 
not surprised.

-- 
Odd Bodkin -- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#622349

On 3/9/2017 7:28 AM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> On 3/9/2017 2:37 AM, john wrote:
>> Just build the Space Elevator right
>> out to Mars and plug in.
>>
>
> LOL, John.
> You might be interested in a small fact.
> The distance between the Earth and Mars varies from 55 Gm to 401 Gm.
> Kinda tricky to build a cable that stretches that much.
>
Odd, didn't you ever hear of a "wedgie"? Plenty of stretch in today's 
modern underwear technology.

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#622301 — Re: NASA proposes artificial magnetic field to make Mars a second home

john wrote:
> 
> Just build the Space Elevator right
> out to Mars and plug in.

That sounds like a great...proposes!


but don't you want to dig a hole first?

i proposes
to dig a hole
through the earth
to make an elevator
to China, then
keeping building 
to Mars.

would i end up upside down in China? or are they upside down??

how do i get to Mars right side up???

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#622276

On 3/8/2017 9:44 PM, Yousuf Khan wrote:
> On 3/8/2017 12:51 PM, S Ergio wrote:
>> thanks for the info,
>>
>> that dude should have provided the numbers to back himself up, back of
>> the envelope should do.
>
> I'm sure he has, this is just a popular science article which summarizes
> his proposal, and gives you an idea about what some scientists have come
> up with. It's up to you to go see his original proposal paper, if you
> want more details.
>
>> so how much is the field 655,000 miles away from a one T source ?
>
> Actually the magnetic field strength drops away by a factor of inverse
> cubed not inverse squared.

so it is far weaker than d^(-2),
for a rough order of magnitude, compair 1 mile out vs 655,000 miles out
1/(655000)^3  = 3.56 * 10^(-18)

so if the source could generate a 1 T field a mile away, then 655,000 
miles away the field is 3.56 E-18, so the generator has no field on Mars.



> But it really doesn't matter how strong the
> magnetic field is at the surface of Mars, just so long as it's ahead of
> Mars and it produces a large enough bow shock pattern, similar to how
> the bow shock pattern is produced ahead of Earth, diverting the solar
> wind away from Earth.

but the L1 is not in the path of Sun to Mars, where particles go. It is 
at L1 way out of the way, 60 degrees off.
diagram here;
http://www.spaceacademy.net.au/library/notes/lagrangp.htm

>
>> how much fuel on board with the sattilite need to compensate for pushing
>> particals around?
>
> Don't know, perhaps they'll find a clever way to use the magnetic field
> itself as a propulsion tool to keep it stable in the L1?

nothing to push aginst.   one has to eject mass.

>
>> Gamma rays are not deflected and come in at full strength to the ground,
>> on earth the atmosphere protects us from 95% of them. so how much gamma
>> can a crew take ? a year or two ?
>
> The magnetic field doesn't protect against any kind of EM radiation, no
> matter what. All it protects against is the solar winds. This in turn
> creates a shield of the upper atmosphere to protect against the high
> energy photons from penetrating into the lower atmosphere.

No such shield on Mars, need a lot of atmosphere, on earth yes, [that is 
why we are able to live on the surface of earth, atmosphere blocks most 
gammas]

>
> Fortunately, gamma rays are usually an uncommon type of photons in the
> universe, as most of the gamma rays occur inside the cores of stars
> during nuclear fusion, and they all get diffused into lower energy
> photons by the time they exit the star's photosphere. Most sources of
> raw gamma rays are things such as supernovas and quasars, and those are
> very directional in their nature. Another advantage is that these
> sources of gamma rays are also pretty distant.

the sun emits gamma, and being distant does not make them weaker,

I havent found gamma ray radiation levels in space yet, there is a lot 
of data NASA has already but they make it very hard to find;

"Measuring Space Radiation Between the Earth
and Mars
As the Mars Odyssey spacecraft made its way to Mars between
April and October 2001, the Mars radiation environment
experiment (MARIE) measured the amounts and kinds of space
radiation the spacecraft encountered along the way. These data
are essential to understanding how much and what kinds of
radiation future space travelers might encounter on a long trip
to explore the red planet.
Now in orbit around Mars, MARIE continues to measure the
amount of harmful radiation at the planet itself. Unlike Earth,
Mars does not have a global magnetic field to shield it from
solar flares and cosmic rays. Mars’ atmosphere is also less
than one percent as thick as the Earth’s. These two factors
make Mars very vulnerable to space radiation.
Aboard the International Space Station and in our own solar
system, NASA researchers continue to quantify the amounts
of space radiation our explorers face every day and will face
in the future. Understanding space radiation will not only protect
the crew currently aboard the International Space Station, but
those first humans who will continue the exploration of our
solar system."

>
>> and again, to cosmic rays, at what angle can they be deflected  from
>> orgional their path, using a magnetic field, is it only 1 or 2 degrees ?
>
> Earth's magnetic field doesn't stop cosmic rays either, they tend to hit
> the Earth relatively unopposed.

they get changed, typically they smash into the atmosphere and cause 
partical showers, into thousands of less energetic particals, and hit 
the surface as a disk shape a few hundred meters across and about 1 or 2 
meters thick.

> Again fortunately due to the fact that
> cosmic rays are high energy particles produced by supernovas and active
> galactic nuclei, they are relatively rare.

sun makes a lot of them for local use, sun spots etc

> Most of the cosmic rays are
> diverted by the Sun's magnetic field rather than any single planet's
> (though Jupiter's might be strong enough to divert some too).

"diverted" only means the ray's path was changed, not that the partical 
went away.
and the ray travels so fast a local magnetic field has little time to 
affect change

>
> Most cosmic rays are travelling at relativistic speeds, so no puny
> magnetic field short of a magnetar is going to do much to divert any
> cosmic rays. We used to use cosmic ray showers in the atmosphere to
> detect new particles, prior to the advent of supercolliders.

yep.  with a PMT, some plastic, and Oscope you can detect them coming 
in. (all bought off ebay)

so there are some questionable points that NASA guy's idea still has.
I think he moved it from the surface, because the path would not be long 
enough to effect change, and moving to L1 is good for stability of 
orbit, but not for diverting particals in path from sun, then the loss 
infield strength...

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#622291

On Thu, 9 Mar 2017 08:47:55 -0600, S Ergio wrote:

>but the L1 is not in the path of Sun to Mars, where particles go. It is 
>at L1 way out of the way, 60 degrees off.
>diagram here;
>http://www.spaceacademy.net.au/library/notes/lagrangp.htm

According to Wikipedia L1 is between Mars and the Sun;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_objects_at_Lagrangian_points

and I thought L1 was always the one between the two bodies.

-- 
Faster, cheaper, quieter than HS2
and built in 5 years;
UKUltraspeed <http://www.500kmh.com/>

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#622293

On 3/9/2017 10:21 AM, Rodney Pont wrote:
> On Thu, 9 Mar 2017 08:47:55 -0600, S Ergio wrote:
>
>> but the L1 is not in the path of Sun to Mars, where particles go. It is
>> at L1 way out of the way, 60 degrees off.
>> diagram here;
>> http://www.spaceacademy.net.au/library/notes/lagrangp.htm
>
> According to Wikipedia L1 is between Mars and the Sun;
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_objects_at_Lagrangian_points
>
> and I thought L1 was always the one between the two bodies.
>

you are right, guess I was thinking L4 or L5,

[I make mistake, first of the year, that I know of...]


L1 would be effective

mars is 92,900,000 miles from the sun and L1 was stated as 655,000 miles 
out, or 0.7% of the way.

if you double the effective radius from L1, the magnetic field, the 
partical would be exposed to the mag field for about 7 seconds from the sun.

I think the magnetic field drops off as d^(-3) nearby L1, but is d^(-2) 
after a ways out.

the other problem is a magnetic field generator at L1, will alter paths 
of sun generated cosmic rays, charged particals, but will they be 
deflected away from Mars, or focus them on mars, or have little effect. 
think of orentation of the field to incoming particals, seems like it 
would need to be like earths, NS out of the galactic plane



some information here too
https://www-spof.gsfc.nasa.gov/Education/FAQs6.html

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#622295

Odd
"Then there's the problem that the space elevator has to swing around "
Space elevator is and always has been
a joke. You have no sense of humor. This
may go hand in hand with your complete lack
of logical thinking skills. I suspect that
those who possess such give QM a wide berth.

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#622315

On 3/9/2017 11:13 AM, john wrote:
> Odd
> "Then there's the problem that the space elevator has to swing around "
> Space elevator is and always has been
> a joke. You have no sense of humor. This
> may go hand in hand with your complete lack
> of logical thinking skills. I suspect that
> those who possess such give QM a wide berth.
>

Why do you think the space elevator is a joke?
It's on track to be operational in 20 years, John. You may even be alive 
then.

-- 
Odd Bodkin -- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#622321

Odd
"Why do you think the space elevator is a joke? 
It's on...."
track to make money.
I think it's a joke because I think logically.
You don't because you don't.

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#622325

On 3/9/2017 2:08 PM, john wrote:
> Odd
> "Why do you think the space elevator is a joke?
> It's on...."
> track to make money.

Well of course. So is the SpaceX project to take tourists in orbit 
around the moon. So are all the solar energy companies. What's your point?

> I think it's a joke because I think logically.

So you think it's a joke, but you can't say why?

> You don't because you don't.
>


-- 
Odd Bodkin -- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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