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Improved Schrodinger's Cat Experiment

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  Improved Schrodinger's Cat Experiment Mike Fontenot <mlfasf@comcast.net> - 2016-04-26 13:37 -0600
    Re: Improved Schrodinger's Cat Experiment "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2016-04-26 16:18 -0700
      Re: Improved Schrodinger's Cat Experiment Mike Fontenot <mlfasf@comcast.net> - 2016-04-27 07:38 -0600
      Re: The milk was obviously spoiled (or not) for some time. Double-A <double-a3@hush.com> - 2016-05-01 13:58 -0700
    Re: Improved Schrodinger's Cat Experiment Mike Fontenot <mlfasf@comcast.net> - 2016-04-27 07:28 -0600
    Re: Improved Schrodinger's Cat Experiment Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-04-27 11:48 -0500
      Re: Improved Schrodinger's Cat Experiment benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-27 16:56 -0400
    Re: Improved Schrodinger's Cat Experiment Timo <timo@physics.uq.edu.au> - 2016-04-28 14:31 -0700
      Re: Improved Schrodinger's Cat Experiment Mike Fontenot <mlfasf@comcast.net> - 2016-04-29 08:18 -0600
        Re: Improved Schrodinger's Cat Experiment Timo <timo@physics.uq.edu.au> - 2016-04-29 21:26 -0700
          Re: Improved Schrodinger's Cat Experiment Mike Fontenot <mlfasf@comcast.net> - 2016-04-30 08:00 -0600
    Re: Improved Schrodinger's Cat Experiment "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2016-04-29 12:56 -0700
      Re: Improved Schrodinger's Cat Experiment "hanson" <hanson@quick.net> - 2016-04-29 13:02 -0700
      Re: Improved Schrodinger's Cat Experiment Double-A <double-a3@hush.com> - 2016-04-29 13:59 -0700
        Re: Improved Schrodinger's Cat Experiment "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2016-04-29 14:27 -0700
          Re: Improved Schrodinger's Cat Experiment "hanson" <hanson@quick.net> - 2016-04-29 18:30 -0700
          Re: Improved Schrodinger's Cat Experiment Double-A <double-a3@hush.com> - 2016-05-01 14:03 -0700

#573514 — Improved Schrodinger's Cat Experiment

Schrodinger clearly believed that human consciousness was required
to collapse the wave function into either the "live cat" state or "dead cat"
state.  Penrose doesn't (see "Shadows of the Mind").  He suspects that
as the "measuring device" is made more complicated than a "quantum-sized"
object, at some degree of complexity, it would cause an actual physical
collapse of the wave function of the combined "radioactive atom plus
measuring device system".  I suspect Penrose, not Schrodinger, is correct.

It seems to me that this issue COULD have been easily resolved by
experiment in Schrodinger's time.  First, allow for the radioactive atom
to be removed from the box after the one-hour time interval that should
produce a 50/50 chance of a decay.  In addition, instead of putting a cat
in the box (which might have sufficient consciousness to itself cause the
collapse), just include a classical-sized "measurement device" that would,
upon a decay, turn off refrigeration of a bottle of milk in the box.  After
the one-hour interval, the experimenter removes and discards the
radioactive atom from the box (without examining it to determine if it
has decayed), and the leaves the box undisturbed for a week or so
(without determining in any way whether the refrigeration had been
turned off or not).  After a week or so, the experimenter opens the box.
If the milk is observed to be spoiled, then clearly the collapse happened
days ago, not just now by the conscious observation.

  -- Mike Fontenot

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#573560

On Tuesday, April 26, 2016 at 12:37:53 PM UTC-7, Mike Fontenot wrote:
> Schrodinger clearly believed that human consciousness was required
> to collapse the wave function into either the "live cat" state or "dead cat"
> state.  Penrose doesn't (see "Shadows of the Mind").  He suspects that
> as the "measuring device" is made more complicated than a "quantum-sized"
> object, at some degree of complexity, it would cause an actual physical
> collapse of the wave function of the combined "radioactive atom plus
> measuring device system".  I suspect Penrose, not Schrodinger, is correct.
> 
> It seems to me that this issue COULD have been easily resolved by
> experiment in Schrodinger's time.  First, allow for the radioactive atom
> to be removed from the box after the one-hour time interval that should
> produce a 50/50 chance of a decay.  In addition, instead of putting a cat
> in the box (which might have sufficient consciousness to itself cause the
> collapse), just include a classical-sized "measurement device" that would,
> upon a decay, turn off refrigeration of a bottle of milk in the box.  After
> the one-hour interval, the experimenter removes and discards the
> radioactive atom from the box (without examining it to determine if it
> has decayed), and the leaves the box undisturbed for a week or so
> (without determining in any way whether the refrigeration had been
> turned off or not).  After a week or so, the experimenter opens the box.
> If the milk is observed to be spoiled, then clearly the collapse happened
> days ago, not just now by the conscious observation.

  You miss the point. *Until you open the box* the milk is in a superposition of spoiled/not spoiled.


  Mark L. Fergerson

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#573684

On 4/26/16 5:18 PM, nuny@bid.nes wrote:

> On Tuesday, April 26, 2016 at 12:37:53 PM UTC-7, Mike Fontenot wrote:

>> Schrodinger clearly believed that human consciousness was required
>> to collapse the wave function into either the "live cat" state or "dead cat"
>> state.  Penrose doesn't (see "Shadows of the Mind").  He suspects that
>> as the "measuring device" is made more complicated than a "quantum-sized"
>> object, at some degree of complexity, it would cause an actual physical
>> collapse of the wave function of the combined "radioactive atom plus
>> measuring device system".  I suspect Penrose, not Schrodinger, is correct.
>>

>
>    You miss the point. *Until you open the box* the milk is in a superposition of spoiled/not spoiled.
>

No, the point IS that there is a difference of opinion (between Penrose 
and Schrodinger in this case) about WHEN collapse occurs in the cat 
experiment, and WHAT causes the collapse to occur.  (But I was wrong 
that my modified experiment would allow us to distinguish between the 
two alternative times of collapse ... it doesn't.)

-- Mike Fontenot

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#574661 — Re: The milk was obviously spoiled (or not) for some time.

On Sunday, May 1, 2016 at 1:39:09 AM UTC-7, Jeff-Relf.Me wrote:
>  
> Re: Improved Schrodinger's Cat Experiment
> 
> MarkFergerson wrote:
> > *Until you open the box* the milk is in a superposition of spoiled/not spoiled.
> 
> No, the milk was obviously spoiled (or not) for some time,
> you just didn't know it.


How sensible for you to conclude that, Jeff.

Double-A

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#573683

On 4/26/16 1:37 PM, Mike Fontenot wrote:
>
> It seems to me that this issue COULD have been easily resolved by
> experiment in Schrodinger's time.
> [...]
>  After a week or so, the experimenter opens the box.
> If the milk is observed to be spoiled, then clearly the collapse happened
> days ago, not just now by the conscious observation.
>

I've just realized that my modified experiment DOESN'T allow the 
observer to determine the time of collapse. Regardless of whether the 
collapse occurs immediately after the decay, or a week later when the 
observer opens the box, the process of milk spoilage begins (if it ever 
happens at all) when the atom decays and causes the refrigeration to be 
turned off. When the undecayed atom is placed in the box, the state of 
the atom is "undecayed". But immediately the state becomes a 
superposition of "decayed" and "undecayed", with the complex weighing 
factor for the "decayed" component starting out small, but growing as 
time passes. And for the "decayed" component, the spoiling process 
begins its progression immediately. Whenever the collapse occurs, if the 
resulting state is "decayed", the progression of the spoilage of the 
milk will smoothly continue on, uninterrupted by the collapse. If the 
state after the collapse is "undecayed", the decayed component of the 
superposition ceases to exist at the collapse, and the spoilage of milk 
in that component ceases to progress because it no longer exists.

-- Mike Fontenot

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#573719

On 4/26/16 2:37 PM, Mike Fontenot wrote:
>
> Schrodinger clearly believed that human consciousness was required
> to collapse the wave function into either the "live cat" state or "dead
> cat"
> state.  Penrose doesn't (see "Shadows of the Mind").  He suspects that
> as the "measuring device" is made more complicated than a "quantum-sized"
> object, at some degree of complexity, it would cause an actual physical
> collapse of the wave function of the combined "radioactive atom plus
> measuring device system".  I suspect Penrose, not Schrodinger, is correct.
>
> It seems to me that this issue COULD have been easily resolved by
> experiment in Schrodinger's time.  First, allow for the radioactive atom
> to be removed from the box after the one-hour time interval that should
> produce a 50/50 chance of a decay.  In addition, instead of putting a cat
> in the box (which might have sufficient consciousness to itself cause the
> collapse), just include a classical-sized "measurement device" that would,
> upon a decay, turn off refrigeration of a bottle of milk in the box.  After
> the one-hour interval, the experimenter removes and discards the
> radioactive atom from the box (without examining it to determine if it
> has decayed), and the leaves the box undisturbed for a week or so
> (without determining in any way whether the refrigeration had been
> turned off or not).  After a week or so, the experimenter opens the box.
> If the milk is observed to be spoiled, then clearly the collapse happened
> days ago, not just now by the conscious observation.
>
>   -- Mike Fontenot
>

   Wave function collapse
 > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave_function_collapse

 > In quantum mechanics, wave function collapse[1] or
 > reduction,[2][3][4][5] as a result of a measurement
 > intervention,[6][7] is said to occur when an instance of a quantum
 > system, with a particular initial wave function, is detected as
 > having a different final wave function. Measurement intervention is
 > one of the two accounts of change in quantum systems; the other is
 > continuous evolution via the Schrödinger equation.[6] The detected
 > wave function is a vector projection of the initial wave function.
 > Projection is a non-invertible operation. The initial wave function
 > is thus in a superposition of several eigenstates, only one of which
 > is actually finally detected. Measurement in quantum mechanics
 > connects the wave function with classical quantities such as position
 > and momentum.
 >
 > In 1927, Werner Heisenberg used the idea of wave function reduction
 > to explain quantum measurement.[2] A physical process of measurement
 > can be described in two distinct ways. In the first way it can be
 > described as occurring in an isolated system, described by a single
 > quantum state that remains coherent and obeys the Schrödinger
 > equation throughout the process. There is no reduction of the wave
 > function in this description. It does not exhibit a definite result,
 > because the Schrödinger equation describes only the unbroken and
 > reversible evolution of probabilities. In the second way the process
 > can be described as a transient interaction between a measured system
 > and a measuring system, macroscopically and quantally distinct, and
 > mutually incoherent. This description is the one that exhibits
 > reduction of the wave function. Each of the systems respectively has
 > two wave functions, one before, and one after, the interaction. The
 > actual course of the interaction is not described by wave functions
 > with a Schrödinger equation. This second way allows exhibition of a
 > definite observational outcome. But that outcome is not predictable,
 > being accounted for only by probabilities encoded in the wave
 > functions. The unpredictability is the price necessarily paid for the
 > definiteness. The definiteness of observational outcome is the
 > physical result of an apparently irreversible amplification in the
 > observing detector. The appearance of irreversibility in the second
 > description is due to incoherence between the several macroscopic
 > devices of the experiment, in contrast with the coherence of the
 > first description. In practice, the definiteness of an outcome is not
 > absolute, because quantum detectors in general have background noise
 > (for example, dark current) and less than perfect detection
 > efficiency.
 >
 > Modern calculations of quantum decoherence describe the process in
 > terms of the combined wave function of the observed and observing
 > systems that continues to obey the Schrödinger equation, accounting
 > precisely for the appearance of irreversibility.[8]

-- 

sci.physics is an unmoderated newsgroup dedicated
to the discussion of physics, news from the physics
community, and physics-related social issues.

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#573791

On 04/27/2016 12:48 PM, Sam Wormley wrote:
> On 4/26/16 2:37 PM, Mike Fontenot wrote:
>>
>> Schrodinger clearly believed that human consciousness was required
>> to collapse the wave function into either the "live cat" state or "dead
>> cat"
>> state.  Penrose doesn't (see "Shadows of the Mind").  He suspects that
>> as the "measuring device" is made more complicated than a "quantum-sized"
>> object, at some degree of complexity, it would cause an actual physical
>> collapse of the wave function of the combined "radioactive atom plus
>> measuring device system".  I suspect Penrose, not Schrodinger, is
>> correct.
>>
>> It seems to me that this issue COULD have been easily resolved by
>> experiment in Schrodinger's time.  First, allow for the radioactive atom
>> to be removed from the box after the one-hour time interval that should
>> produce a 50/50 chance of a decay.  In addition, instead of putting a cat
>> in the box (which might have sufficient consciousness to itself cause the
>> collapse), just include a classical-sized "measurement device" that
>> would,
>> upon a decay, turn off refrigeration of a bottle of milk in the box.
>> After
>> the one-hour interval, the experimenter removes and discards the
>> radioactive atom from the box (without examining it to determine if it
>> has decayed), and the leaves the box undisturbed for a week or so
>> (without determining in any way whether the refrigeration had been
>> turned off or not).  After a week or so, the experimenter opens the box.
>> If the milk is observed to be spoiled, then clearly the collapse happened
>> days ago, not just now by the conscious observation.
>>
>>   -- Mike Fontenot
>>
>
>    Wave function collapse
>  > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave_function_collapse
>
>  > In quantum mechanics, wave function collapse[1] or
>  > reduction,[2][3][4][5] as a result of a measurement
>  > intervention,[6][7] is said to occur when an instance of a quantum
>  > system, with a particular initial wave function, is detected as
>  > having a different final wave function. Measurement intervention is
>  > one of the two accounts of change in quantum systems; the other is
>  > continuous evolution via the Schrödinger equation.[6] The detected
>  > wave function is a vector projection of the initial wave function.
>  > Projection is a non-invertible operation. The initial wave function
>  > is thus in a superposition of several eigenstates, only one of which
>  > is actually finally detected. Measurement in quantum mechanics
>  > connects the wave function with classical quantities such as position
>  > and momentum.
>  >
>  > In 1927, Werner Heisenberg used the idea of wave function reduction
>  > to explain quantum measurement.[2] A physical process of measurement
>  > can be described in two distinct ways. In the first way it can be
>  > described as occurring in an isolated system, described by a single
>  > quantum state that remains coherent and obeys the Schrödinger
>  > equation throughout the process. There is no reduction of the wave
>  > function in this description. It does not exhibit a definite result,
>  > because the Schrödinger equation describes only the unbroken and
>  > reversible evolution of probabilities. In the second way the process
>  > can be described as a transient interaction between a measured system
>  > and a measuring system, macroscopically and quantally distinct, and
>  > mutually incoherent. This description is the one that exhibits
>  > reduction of the wave function. Each of the systems respectively has
>  > two wave functions, one before, and one after, the interaction. The
>  > actual course of the interaction is not described by wave functions
>  > with a Schrödinger equation. This second way allows exhibition of a
>  > definite observational outcome. But that outcome is not predictable,
>  > being accounted for only by probabilities encoded in the wave
>  > functions. The unpredictability is the price necessarily paid for the
>  > definiteness. The definiteness of observational outcome is the
>  > physical result of an apparently irreversible amplification in the
>  > observing detector. The appearance of irreversibility in the second
>  > description is due to incoherence between the several macroscopic
>  > devices of the experiment, in contrast with the coherence of the
>  > first description. In practice, the definiteness of an outcome is not
>  > absolute, because quantum detectors in general have background noise
>  > (for example, dark current) and less than perfect detection
>  > efficiency.
>  >
>  > Modern calculations of quantum decoherence describe the process in
>  > terms of the combined wave function of the observed and observing
>  > systems that continues to obey the Schrödinger equation, accounting
>  > precisely for the appearance of irreversibility.[8]

Sam, nobody used the term "collapse" anymore. Get with the modern 
jargon! See Oddball for help with jargon.

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#574032

On Wednesday, April 27, 2016 at 5:37:53 AM UTC+10, Mike Fontenot wrote:
> Schrodinger clearly believed that human consciousness was required
> to collapse the wave function into either the "live cat" state or "dead cat"
> state.

Schroedinger didn't believe in collapse of the wavefunction, so why would he have believed that human consciousness was required?

He invented the cat to argue against collapse of the wavefunction.

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#574156

On 4/28/16 3:31 PM, Timo wrote:
> On Wednesday, April 27, 2016 at 5:37:53 AM UTC+10, Mike Fontenot wrote:
>> Schrodinger clearly believed that human consciousness was required
>> to collapse the wave function into either the "live cat" state or "dead cat"
>> state.
>
> Schroedinger didn't believe in collapse of the wavefunction, so why would he
> have believed that human consciousness was required?
>

"The collapse of the wave function" simply refers to the fact that we 
humans never directly observe superpositions of different states of a 
single object ... we never observe a simultaneously live and dead cat, 
or a single photon that ends up simultaneously in two different spots on 
a photographic plate.  Yet many experimental outcomes demand that a 
superposition of states has existed before the observation.  The only 
"there IS no collapse" interpretation is the "many worlds" 
interpretation (which Schrodinger didn't endorse, at least at the time 
he wrote the "cat" paper), which says that we humans never observe a 
superposition because when we make an observation, we ourselves become 
part of the superposition (and each instance of ourselves sees only one 
state of the cat).

-- Mike Fontenot

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#574303

On Saturday, April 30, 2016 at 12:18:54 AM UTC+10, Mike Fontenot wrote:
> On 4/28/16 3:31 PM, Timo wrote:
> > On Wednesday, April 27, 2016 at 5:37:53 AM UTC+10, Mike Fontenot wrote:
> >> Schrodinger clearly believed that human consciousness was required
> >> to collapse the wave function into either the "live cat" state or "dead cat"
> >> state.
> >
> > Schroedinger didn't believe in collapse of the wavefunction, so why would he
> > have believed that human consciousness was required?
> 
> "The collapse of the wave function" simply refers to the fact that we 
> humans never directly observe superpositions of different states of a 
> single object ... we never observe a simultaneously live and dead cat, 
> or a single photon that ends up simultaneously in two different spots on 
> a photographic plate.

That isn't the usual meaning of the term. If you re-invent new meanings for technical terms, it doesn't help communication. Why not stick to the standard meaning?

> The only 
> "there IS no collapse" interpretation is the "many worlds" 
> interpretation

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpretations_of_quantum_mechanics lists 10 others. (It's generally accepted that Schroedinger's interpretation of QM was wrong, so it isn't on the list.)

But that's all beside the point. You made an incorrect statement about Schroedinger's beliefs, which is contradicted by what Schroedinger wrote. For some stuff about what Schroedinger's ideas:
http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.shpsb.2005.09.007

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#574369

On 4/29/16 10:26 PM, Timo wrote:
>
> But that's all beside the point. You made an incorrect statement about
>Schroedinger's beliefs, which is contradicted by what Schroedinger wrote.
>For some stuff about what Schroedinger's ideas:
> http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.shpsb.2005.09.007
>


Thanks for those links.  I'll take a look.

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#574221

On Tuesday, April 26, 2016 at 12:37:53 PM UTC-7, Mike Fontenot wrote:
> Schrodinger clearly believed that human consciousness was required
> to collapse the wave function into either the "live cat" state or "dead cat"
> state.  Penrose doesn't (see "Shadows of the Mind").  He suspects that
> as the "measuring device" is made more complicated than a "quantum-sized"
> object, at some degree of complexity, it would cause an actual physical
> collapse of the wave function of the combined "radioactive atom plus
> measuring device system".  I suspect Penrose, not Schrodinger, is correct.
> 
> It seems to me that this issue COULD have been easily resolved by
> experiment in Schrodinger's time.  First, allow for the radioactive atom
> to be removed from the box after the one-hour time interval that should
> produce a 50/50 chance of a decay.  In addition, instead of putting a cat
> in the box (which might have sufficient consciousness to itself cause the
> collapse), just include a classical-sized "measurement device" that would,
> upon a decay, turn off refrigeration of a bottle of milk in the box.  After
> the one-hour interval, the experimenter removes and discards the
> radioactive atom from the box (without examining it to determine if it
> has decayed), and the leaves the box undisturbed for a week or so
> (without determining in any way whether the refrigeration had been
> turned off or not).  After a week or so, the experimenter opens the box.
> If the milk is observed to be spoiled, then clearly the collapse happened
> days ago, not just now by the conscious observation.
> 
>   -- Mike Fontenot

Does this story have a happy ending?  TreBert

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#574223

<herbertglazier0@gmail.com> "reber g=emc^2" Full Swine Glazier wrote:
 > Does this story have a happy ending?  
>  which is a given that can be seen as soon as...
>
<herbertglazier0@gmail.com> Glazier, the loud mouth
the Jewish Jailbird, the Hatemonger, Liar, schizoid mental 
cripple, Pervert Face-Shitter,  criminal Graveyard vandal,
Bigot, Racist, War-monger & Communist in the persona of 
:B::ert Glazier introduces himself with/as....
>
:B:: "I am a proud Jew with a Superiority complex &
:B:: an IQ of 122", & "I do know how everything works,.."
:B:: "My Grandfathers had tails". -- Trebert
:B:: "Being Jewish I know this is so very true" -- Bert.
:B:: "I'm a non-bible(torra) Jew. I'm the only Jew that
:B:: got 2 form letters from two Popes". Bert
:B:: __** "Why am I not loved by all?" --- Bert **__.
 >
:B:: "I'll be sitting on Benj's, Saul Levi's & HVAC's face
:B:: to take a shit & say: "Open your mouth wide".
:B:: "Hanson, I will piss on your grave. And laugh".
:B:: __** "Why am I not loved by all?" --- Bert **__.
>
:B:: "I'm M&M's Clueless Fuck-faced turd".Bert.
:B:: I'm "Siegman Fraud", "Bert, the Bowel Movement".
:B:: "I gave G=EMC^2 (wrong & stolen) to the world"
:B:: "Israel will drop its first H-bomb 'David' ". TreBert
:B:: __"I'm glad when war breaks out"__ Bert
:B:: __** "Why am I not loved by all?" --- Bert **__.
 >
:B:: "Even the FBI has me as a trouble maker and
:B:: the FBI blocks my phone from calling them. "....
:B:: cuz "I was mixing sulfur, carbon & iron together
:B:: to make gun powder" ... & "while I was in custody
:B:: of Osceola Sheriff Bob Hansel, for thieving, his
:B:: deputies beat the shit out of me. So I bought a
:B:: 357 magnum for death threats by Sheriff Bob.
:B:: __** "Why am I not loved by all?" --- Bert **__.
 >
about which ....
Moderator General "HVAC" <Mr.HVAC@gmail.com> aka
"Richard A." aka Harlow Campbell wrote:
>
"Bert, your opinion doesn't count"
"a trained cockroach is smarter than Bert"
"Bert, you are a clueless cocksucker"....
"Bert you are senile, dazed & confused"
"Bert, you are Fucked in the head.
>
"Bert is a racist. (And he's stupid too)"
"TreBert, you are one stupid cocksucker".
"Bert, Seriously. You are the stupidest cocksucking
moron who ever came down the Mass Pike."
"Bert, does your stupidity know no bounds?"
>
"Bert, you really are a pathetic excuse for a human
fucking being". "Bert you are an idiot."
"Bert, are the stupidest cocksucker on the planet."
"Spin THIS, Glazier, you fucking idiot." "Bert get
some spelling lessons, you feeble-minded fuck".
>
"Bert, you should be arrested"
"Bert, I will call the police and tell them that your
van seems to be a center for drug activity in the
Wal-Mart parking lot"... .... .... about which....
 >
Glazier's ex-tutor Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> wrote:
>
"Glazier, do not post in a science newsgroup."
"Glazier, quit posting __ your Gutter Science__."
"Glazier, exit USENET. -- IOW Glazier, beat it!."
>
"Glazier, your science is far worse than the man's on the street."
"Glazier, your postings are old man's garbage."
"Glazier, your brain is entangled with a used garbage can."
>
"reber, take your 'you know it all thinking' to your grave" .
"reber, your horseshit gets old. Say hi to Allah for me.:
"reber, you don't believe in science."
>
Jim Pennino jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
Glazier, you are a spamming piece of shit...
Your Cocaine usage explains a lot of your posts.
You are drunk again. Give up and kill yourself.
 >
Astrophysicist "Saul Levy" <saullevy1@cox.net> wrote:
GLAZIER YOU ARE A LAMEbrain PIECE OF SHIT!
Saul Levy
 >
Rocket Scientist Virdy "Mahipal" <mahipal7638@gmail.com> wrote:
I know, you reber are an idiot. Glazier, you are babbling
desperately. Is it sympathy or pity you're grasping for?
Stop it, either way.
 >
benj" <nobody@gmail.com> wrote:
One only has to read Glazier's posts to see when Bert was lobotomized.
But Herb found poster "Double-A" who likes to be like Glazier,
but "Alkie-Alkie" is another kook who is as dumb as Bert is!
Now they party and frolic!...still waiting "to be loved by all"...
 >
hanson wrote:
So Glazier, given your Jewish Superiority complex and
your IQ of 122 and you knowing how how everything works,
... how come ended up shitting into a bucket in a 25 year
old Minnie Mouse van that you use as your residence
on Wal-Mart's Parking Lot? ..... .... What went wrong, Glazier?
 >
 "What are they gonna say when Swine Glazier dies? Are
they gonna say he was a kind man? He was a wise man?
He had plans? He has wisdom? .... BULLSHIT, MAN!"...
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TAixFYnDh4> [D]
BULLSHIT,... because Swine Glazier DOES have plans
which Glazier, the Full-Swine, announced and posted at
the ripe age of eighty (80) when Glazier became a criminal
Graveyard Vandal who wrote:
>
(1)
On 25Mar2008 Swine Glazier wrote in:
https://groups.google.com/group/sci.physics/msg/3ffe7b2257cf8a9a
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/sci.physics/uYtpFTRnW4k/morPVyJ7_j8J
Hanson, I will piss on your grave. And have a good laugh
when it seeps down on your face. -- Bert.
 >
Glazier's geriatric decay worsened, along with Glazier's chronic
alcoholism and Glazier, the Olde Kacker, became a Coprophile
IOW Glazier became a filthy Face Shitter at his age of 86, which
Glazier proudly announced & posted...
 >
(2)
On 06Dec2014, when the Christian-Hater, Jew-Swine Glazier
said to "benj" <nobody@gmail.com>: Reality is you always
post under me for you are an ass kisser.
For Christmas I'll shit on your kisser.
<http://pbs.twimg.com/media/A8MGOU-CQAEaZw4.jpg>
Benj, you can thank me in advance. - TreBert. ... after
which...
 >
Glazier, the Criminal Graveyard Vandal & Face Shitter got even
worse over the next year and at Glazier's age of 87, Glazier
widened his piggish Face-shitting habit, as seen when Glazier
threatened...
 >
(3)
On 07Feb 2015 & on 08Feb2015, as Swine Glazier wrote:
Harlow HVAC, Mr.HVAC@gmail.com, Saul Levy <saullevy1@cox.net
& Jacoby Benj, <nobody@gmail.com>:
"I'll be sitting on your face to take a shit & say: "Open wide".
<http://pbs.twimg.com/media/A8MGOU-CQAEaZw4.jpg>
after...
>
(4)
The Criminal Swine Glazier refused to stop his practices & rejected
to be taken down, because Glazier at his age of 87+, Swine Glazier
labeled himself as "Siegman Fraud" which is synonym with "Bowel-
movement, actually saying that __ "Glazier is a piece of shit"__.
who, to boot, also announced that Glazier is a Transvestite who dons
female dresses and a Sarah Palin mask, saying that he has "nice
legs"...
 >
hanson wrote:
Now Glazier, since you are a curse and an embarrassment, day-in
and day-out, to every Jew everywhere, has it dawned on you
sorry, geriatric Transie-Swine, that as soon as you have been
"put away and under" Google will remove ALL YOUR posts from
the USENET and the only thing that will remain and show your
legacy, is because:
 >
Glazier the Swine fortunately posted:
.... "hanson made me famous"....
 >
hanson wrote
So, Glazier you Swine, you should be grateful to me & not wish
me ill like you did above, in your sick hate mongering, since
it is only because of hanson, that Web searches show for:
>
--- Swine Glazier G=EMC^2 Cretin ----            27'833 hits & rising
--- reber g=emc^2 Face-shitter & Vandal ----   27'953 hits & rising
>
which is why  the mental cripple <http://tinyurl.com/Swine-Glazier>
badly needs to be administered to with
<http://tinyurl.com/G-EMC2-Recall-Therapy> ...
>
Now Glazier, you filthy Swine, "you will never be loved by all"
but incredibly, Glazier you have a few groupies who love you,
like:
>
"AA" <double-a3@hush.com> the "Alcoholic Addict" alias
<nobody@home.invalid> "Anon E. Mouse" the Yiddle pig,
plus restroom attendant kike Bodaisky, etc., including 
>
Halbmutt Wabnigger, <hwabnig@.- --- -.dotat> who said:
  "Jews are a residue of failed evolution"
>
& Islamist Mehram Maleki <clutterfreakincarnate@gmail.com>
who said: " 'Jews' lineage and law must be accounted as filth."
>
All of those are personal slaves of Faceshitter Glazier, who
demonstrate their worship & their devotion to their master
Glazier, by lying under & literally shit-eating Glazier's turd:
<http://pbs.twimg.com/media/A8MGOU-CQAEaZw4.jpg>
>
This bizarre perversion is well documented as seen here in:
<http://tinyurl.com/magnum-opus-the-rectal-jew>
<https://theendofzion.com/the-fecal-fixation-of-the-chosen-ones/>
<https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=jewish+coprophilia

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#574239

On Friday, April 29, 2016 at 12:56:05 PM UTC-7, reber g=emc^2 wrote:
> On Tuesday, April 26, 2016 at 12:37:53 PM UTC-7, Mike Fontenot wrote:
> > Schrodinger clearly believed that human consciousness was required
> > to collapse the wave function into either the "live cat" state or "dead cat"
> > state.  Penrose doesn't (see "Shadows of the Mind").  He suspects that
> > as the "measuring device" is made more complicated than a "quantum-sized"
> > object, at some degree of complexity, it would cause an actual physical
> > collapse of the wave function of the combined "radioactive atom plus
> > measuring device system".  I suspect Penrose, not Schrodinger, is correct.
> > 
> > It seems to me that this issue COULD have been easily resolved by
> > experiment in Schrodinger's time.  First, allow for the radioactive atom
> > to be removed from the box after the one-hour time interval that should
> > produce a 50/50 chance of a decay.  In addition, instead of putting a cat
> > in the box (which might have sufficient consciousness to itself cause the
> > collapse), just include a classical-sized "measurement device" that would,
> > upon a decay, turn off refrigeration of a bottle of milk in the box.  After
> > the one-hour interval, the experimenter removes and discards the
> > radioactive atom from the box (without examining it to determine if it
> > has decayed), and the leaves the box undisturbed for a week or so
> > (without determining in any way whether the refrigeration had been
> > turned off or not).  After a week or so, the experimenter opens the box.
> > If the milk is observed to be spoiled, then clearly the collapse happened
> > days ago, not just now by the conscious observation.
> > 
> >   -- Mike Fontenot
> 
> Does this story have a happy ending?  TreBert


I still say they should use a rat rather than a cat.  Nobody will care about a dead rat!

Double-A

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#574248

On Friday, April 29, 2016 at 1:59:54 PM UTC-7, Double-A wrote:
> On Friday, April 29, 2016 at 12:56:05 PM UTC-7, reber g=emc^2 wrote:
> > On Tuesday, April 26, 2016 at 12:37:53 PM UTC-7, Mike Fontenot wrote:
> > > Schrodinger clearly believed that human consciousness was required
> > > to collapse the wave function into either the "live cat" state or "dead cat"
> > > state.  Penrose doesn't (see "Shadows of the Mind").  He suspects that
> > > as the "measuring device" is made more complicated than a "quantum-sized"
> > > object, at some degree of complexity, it would cause an actual physical
> > > collapse of the wave function of the combined "radioactive atom plus
> > > measuring device system".  I suspect Penrose, not Schrodinger, is correct.
> > > 
> > > It seems to me that this issue COULD have been easily resolved by
> > > experiment in Schrodinger's time.  First, allow for the radioactive atom
> > > to be removed from the box after the one-hour time interval that should
> > > produce a 50/50 chance of a decay.  In addition, instead of putting a cat
> > > in the box (which might have sufficient consciousness to itself cause the
> > > collapse), just include a classical-sized "measurement device" that would,
> > > upon a decay, turn off refrigeration of a bottle of milk in the box.  After
> > > the one-hour interval, the experimenter removes and discards the
> > > radioactive atom from the box (without examining it to determine if it
> > > has decayed), and the leaves the box undisturbed for a week or so
> > > (without determining in any way whether the refrigeration had been
> > > turned off or not).  After a week or so, the experimenter opens the box.
> > > If the milk is observed to be spoiled, then clearly the collapse happened
> > > days ago, not just now by the conscious observation.
> > > 
> > >   -- Mike Fontenot
> > 
> > Does this story have a happy ending?  TreBert
> 
> 
> I still say they should use a rat rather than a cat.  Nobody will care about a dead rat!
> 
> Double-A

I hate rats also.Never had a cat.If they used dog they would have big problems.Edison used elephant to turn people off DC. Red Cross killed the most people without a care in USA.Hitler world wide. Indirectly Bush must have killed 5 million,and Rick Scott about 130,000.   TreBert

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#574270

 <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> Glazier "reber" whose g=emc^2"
is short for "Glazier Exhibits Micro Cephalic Cretinism" (Zika),
wrote:
"I hate rats in USA. Hitler world wide & Bush killed 5 million."
>
hanson wrote:
Zika Glazier fashions himself to be the Pied Piper of the Parking
Lot of Anaheim's Wal-Mart, where he parked his Minnie Rat Van
illegally for over a year until he go kicked out... which, & why so,
can be seen as soon as...
>
<herbertglazier0@gmail.com> Glazier, the loud mouth
the Jewish Jailbird, the Hatemonger, Liar, schizoid mental 
cripple, Pervert Face-Shitter,  criminal Graveyard vandal,
Bigot, Racist, War-monger & Communist in the persona of 
:B::ert Glazier introduces himself with/as....
>
:B:: "I am a proud Jew with a Superiority complex &
:B:: an IQ of 122", & "I do know how everything works,.."
:B:: "My Grandfathers had tails". -- Trebert
:B:: "Being Jewish I know this is so very true" -- Bert.
:B:: "I'm a non-bible(torra) Jew. I'm the only Jew that
:B:: got 2 form letters from two Popes". Bert
:B:: __** "Why am I not loved by all?" --- Bert **__.
 >
:B:: "I'll be sitting on Benj's, Saul Levi's & HVAC's face
:B:: to take a shit & say: "Open your mouth wide".
:B:: "Hanson, I will piss on your grave. And laugh".
:B:: __** "Why am I not loved by all?" --- Bert **__.
>
:B:: "I'm M&M's Clueless Fuck-faced turd".Bert.
:B:: I'm "Siegman Fraud", "Bert, the Bowel Movement".
:B:: "I gave G=EMC^2 (wrong & stolen) to the world"
:B:: "Israel will drop its first H-bomb 'David' ". TreBert
:B:: __"I'm glad when war breaks out"__ Bert
:B:: __** "Why am I not loved by all?" --- Bert **__.
 >
:B:: "Even the FBI has me as a trouble maker and
:B:: the FBI blocks my phone from calling them. "....
:B:: cuz "I was mixing sulfur, carbon & iron together
:B:: to make gun powder" ... & "while I was in custody
:B:: of Osceola Sheriff Bob Hansel, for thieving, his
:B:: deputies beat the shit out of me. So I bought a
:B:: 357 magnum for death threats by Sheriff Bob.
:B:: __** "Why am I not loved by all?" --- Bert **__.
 >
about which ....
Moderator General "HVAC" <Mr.HVAC@gmail.com> aka
"Richard A." aka Harlow Campbell wrote:
>
"Bert, your opinion doesn't count"
"a trained cockroach is smarter than Bert"
"Bert, you are a clueless cocksucker"....
"Bert you are senile, dazed & confused"
"Bert, you are Fucked in the head.
>
"Bert is a racist. (And he's stupid too)"
"TreBert, you are one stupid cocksucker".
"Bert, Seriously. You are the stupidest cocksucking
moron who ever came down the Mass Pike."
"Bert, does your stupidity know no bounds?"
>
"Bert, you really are a pathetic excuse for a human
fucking being". "Bert you are an idiot."
"Bert, are the stupidest cocksucker on the planet."
"Spin THIS, Glazier, you fucking idiot." "Bert get
some spelling lessons, you feeble-minded fuck".
>
"Bert, you should be arrested"
"Bert, I will call the police and tell them that your
van seems to be a center for drug activity in the
Wal-Mart parking lot"... .... .... about which....
 >
Glazier's ex-tutor Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> wrote:
>
"Glazier, do not post in a science newsgroup."
"Glazier, quit posting __ your Gutter Science__."
"Glazier, exit USENET. -- IOW Glazier, beat it!."
>
"Glazier, your science is far worse than the man's on the street."
"Glazier, your postings are old man's garbage."
"Glazier, your brain is entangled with a used garbage can."
>
"reber, take your 'you know it all thinking' to your grave" .
"reber, your horseshit gets old. Say hi to Allah for me.:
"reber, you don't believe in science."
>
Jim Pennino jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
Glazier, you are a spamming piece of shit...
Your Cocaine usage explains a lot of your posts.
You are drunk again. Give up and kill yourself.
 >
Astrophysicist "Saul Levy" <saullevy1@cox.net> wrote:
GLAZIER YOU ARE A LAMEbrain PIECE OF SHIT!
Saul Levy
 >
Rocket Scientist Virdy "Mahipal" <mahipal7638@gmail.com> wrote:
I know, you reber are an idiot. Glazier, you are babbling
desperately. Is it sympathy or pity you're grasping for?
Stop it, either way.
 >
benj" <nobody@gmail.com> wrote:
One only has to read Glazier's posts to see when Bert was lobotomized.
But Herb found poster "Double-A" who likes to be like Glazier,
but "Alkie-Alkie" is another kook who is as dumb as Bert is!
Now they party and frolic!...still waiting "to be loved by all"...
 >
hanson wrote:
So Glazier, given your Jewish Superiority complex and
your IQ of 122 and you knowing how how everything works,
... how come ended up shitting into a bucket in a 25 year
old Minnie Mouse van that you use as your residence
on Wal-Mart's Parking Lot? ..... .... What went wrong, Glazier?
 >
 "What are they gonna say when Swine Glazier dies? Are
they gonna say he was a kind man? He was a wise man?
He had plans? He has wisdom? .... BULLSHIT, MAN!"...
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TAixFYnDh4> [D]
BULLSHIT,... because Swine Glazier DOES have plans
which Glazier, the Full-Swine, announced and posted at
the ripe age of eighty (80) when Glazier became a criminal
Graveyard Vandal who wrote:
>
(1)
On 25Mar2008 Swine Glazier wrote in:
https://groups.google.com/group/sci.physics/msg/3ffe7b2257cf8a9a
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/sci.physics/uYtpFTRnW4k/morPVyJ7_j8J
Hanson, I will piss on your grave. And have a good laugh
when it seeps down on your face. -- Bert.
 >
Glazier's geriatric decay worsened, along with Glazier's chronic
alcoholism and Glazier, the Olde Kacker, became a Coprophile
IOW Glazier became a filthy Face Shitter at his age of 86, which
Glazier proudly announced & posted...
 >
(2)
On 06Dec2014, when the Christian-Hater, Jew-Swine Glazier
said to "benj" <nobody@gmail.com>: Reality is you always
post under me for you are an ass kisser.
For Christmas I'll shit on your kisser.
<http://pbs.twimg.com/media/A8MGOU-CQAEaZw4.jpg>
Benj, you can thank me in advance. - TreBert. ... after
which...
 >
Glazier, the Criminal Graveyard Vandal & Face Shitter got even
worse over the next year and at Glazier's age of 87, Glazier
widened his piggish Face-shitting habit, as seen when Glazier
threatened...
 >
(3)
On 07Feb 2015 & on 08Feb2015, as Swine Glazier wrote:
Harlow HVAC, Mr.HVAC@gmail.com, Saul Levy <saullevy1@cox.net
& Jacoby Benj, <nobody@gmail.com>:
"I'll be sitting on your face to take a shit & say: "Open wide".
<http://pbs.twimg.com/media/A8MGOU-CQAEaZw4.jpg>
after...
>
(4)
The Criminal Swine Glazier refused to stop his practices & rejected
to be taken down, because Glazier at his age of 87+, Swine Glazier
labeled himself as "Siegman Fraud" which is synonym with "Bowel-
movement, actually saying that __ "Glazier is a piece of shit"__.
who, to boot, also announced that Glazier is a Transvestite who dons
female dresses and a Sarah Palin mask, saying that he has "nice
legs"...
 >
hanson wrote:
Now Glazier, since you are a curse and an embarrassment, day-in
and day-out, to every Jew everywhere, has it dawned on you
sorry, geriatric Transie-Swine, that as soon as you have been
"put away and under" Google will remove ALL YOUR posts from
the USENET and the only thing that will remain and show your
legacy, is because:
 >
Glazier the Swine fortunately posted:
.... "hanson made me famous"....
 >
hanson wrote
So, Glazier you Swine, you should be grateful to me & not wish
me ill like you did above, in your sick hate mongering, since
it is only because of hanson, that Web searches show for:
>
--- Swine Glazier G=EMC^2 Cretin ----            27'833 hits & rising
--- reber g=emc^2 Face-shitter & Vandal ----   27'953 hits & rising
>
which is why  the mental cripple <http://tinyurl.com/Swine-Glazier>
badly needs to be administered to with
<http://tinyurl.com/G-EMC2-Recall-Therapy> ...
>
Now Glazier, you filthy Swine, "you will never be loved by all"
but incredibly, Glazier you have a few groupies who love you,
like:
>
"AA" <double-a3@hush.com> the "Alcoholic Addict" alias
<nobody@home.invalid> "Anon E. Mouse" the Yiddle pig,
plus restroom attendant kike Bodaisky, etc., including 
>
Halbmutt Wabnigger, <hwabnig@.- --- -.dotat> who said:
  "Jews are a residue of failed evolution"
>
& Moslem Mehram Maleki <clutterfreakincarnate@gmail.com>
who said: " 'Jews' lineage and law must be accounted as filth."
>
All of those are personal slaves of Faceshitter Glazier, who
demonstrate their worship & their devotion to their master
Glazier, by lying under & literally shit-eating Glazier's turd:
<http://pbs.twimg.com/media/A8MGOU-CQAEaZw4.jpg>
>
This bizarre perversion is well documented as seen here in:
<http://tinyurl.com/magnum-opus-the-rectal-jew>
<https://theendofzion.com/the-fecal-fixation-of-the-chosen-ones/>
<https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=jewish+coprophilia

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#574663

On Friday, April 29, 2016 at 2:27:27 PM UTC-7, reber g=emc^2 wrote:
> On Friday, April 29, 2016 at 1:59:54 PM UTC-7, Double-A wrote:
> > On Friday, April 29, 2016 at 12:56:05 PM UTC-7, reber g=emc^2 wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, April 26, 2016 at 12:37:53 PM UTC-7, Mike Fontenot wrote:
> > > > Schrodinger clearly believed that human consciousness was required
> > > > to collapse the wave function into either the "live cat" state or "dead cat"
> > > > state.  Penrose doesn't (see "Shadows of the Mind").  He suspects that
> > > > as the "measuring device" is made more complicated than a "quantum-sized"
> > > > object, at some degree of complexity, it would cause an actual physical
> > > > collapse of the wave function of the combined "radioactive atom plus
> > > > measuring device system".  I suspect Penrose, not Schrodinger, is correct.
> > > > 
> > > > It seems to me that this issue COULD have been easily resolved by
> > > > experiment in Schrodinger's time.  First, allow for the radioactive atom
> > > > to be removed from the box after the one-hour time interval that should
> > > > produce a 50/50 chance of a decay.  In addition, instead of putting a cat
> > > > in the box (which might have sufficient consciousness to itself cause the
> > > > collapse), just include a classical-sized "measurement device" that would,
> > > > upon a decay, turn off refrigeration of a bottle of milk in the box.  After
> > > > the one-hour interval, the experimenter removes and discards the
> > > > radioactive atom from the box (without examining it to determine if it
> > > > has decayed), and the leaves the box undisturbed for a week or so
> > > > (without determining in any way whether the refrigeration had been
> > > > turned off or not).  After a week or so, the experimenter opens the box.
> > > > If the milk is observed to be spoiled, then clearly the collapse happened
> > > > days ago, not just now by the conscious observation.
> > > > 
> > > >   -- Mike Fontenot
> > > 
> > > Does this story have a happy ending?  TreBert
> > 
> > 
> > I still say they should use a rat rather than a cat.  Nobody will care about a dead rat!
> > 
> > Double-A
> 
> I hate rats also.Never had a cat.If they used dog they would have big problems.Edison used elephant to turn people off DC. Red Cross killed the most people without a care in USA.Hitler world wide. Indirectly Bush must have killed 5 million,and Rick Scott about 130,000.   TreBert


You know, in that Schrodinger experiment, didn't anybody ever notice whether there was a bad smell coming from that box?

Double-A

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