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| Started by | Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2016-01-20 16:58 -0600 |
| Last post | 2016-01-20 21:46 -0800 |
| Articles | 7 — 4 participants |
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Can three pigeons be in two pigeonholes with no two pigeons in the same hole? Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-01-20 16:58 -0600
Re: Can three pigeons be in two pigeonholes with no two pigeons in the same hole? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-01-20 16:58 -0800
Re: Can three pigeons be in two pigeonholes with no two pigeons in the same hole? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-01-20 21:27 -0800
Re: Can three pigeons be in two pigeonholes with no two pigeons in the same hole? GogoJF <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-20 17:24 -0800
Re: Can three pigeons be in two pigeonholes with no two pigeons in the same hole? Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-01-20 19:28 -0600
Re: Can three pigeons be in two pigeonholes with no two pigeons in the same hole? "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2016-01-20 21:36 -0800
Re: Can three pigeons be in two pigeonholes with no two pigeons in the same hole? "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2016-01-20 21:46 -0800
| From | Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-01-20 16:58 -0600 |
| Subject | Can three pigeons be in two pigeonholes with no two pigeons in the same hole? |
| Message-ID | <atednaowfrdmjT3LnZ2dnUU7-XkAAAAA@giganews.com> |
Can three pigeons be in two pigeonholes with no two pigeons in the same hole? > http://phys.org/news/2016-01-pigeons-pigeonholes-hole.html > Research published this month in the Proceedings of the National > Academy of Sciences (PNAS) introduced a new quantum phenomenon which > the authors called the "quantum pigeonhole principle." Prior to this > breakthrough, the pigeonhole principle was a basic tenet of > conventional wisdom. It states that if you put three pigeons in two > pigeonholes then at least two of the pigeons must end up in the same > hole. It is an obvious yet fundamental principle of nature as it > captures the very essence of counting. The research, conducted by > members of Chapman University's Institute for Quantum Studies (IQS), > violates this principle. The study demonstrates how to put an > arbitrarily large number of particles in two boxes without any two > particles ending up in the same box. > > "This discovery points to a very interesting structure of quantum > mechanics that was hitherto unnoticed," said Yakir Aharonov, Ph.D., > and co-director of Chapman's IQS. "This now requires us to revisit > some of the most basic notions of nature." > > The paper, called Quantum violation of the pigeonhole principle and > the nature of quantum correlations, discusses several possible > experiments which explore implications for the nature of interactions > between particles. -- sci.physics is an unmoderated newsgroup dedicated to the discussion of physics, news from the physics community, and physics-related social issues.
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| From | The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-01-20 16:58 -0800 |
| Subject | Re: Can three pigeons be in two pigeonholes with no two pigeons in the same hole? |
| Message-ID | <56A02D37.358@ix.netcom.com> |
| In reply to | #546836 |
Sam Wormley wrote:
>
> Can three pigeons be in two pigeonholes with no two pigeons in the same
> hole?
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| From | The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> |
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| Date | 2016-01-20 21:27 -0800 |
| Subject | Re: Can three pigeons be in two pigeonholes with no two pigeons in the same hole? |
| Message-ID | <56A06C31.5EDB@ix.netcom.com> |
| In reply to | #546853 |
The Starmaker wrote: > > Sam Wormley wrote: > > > > Can three pigeons be in two pigeonholes with no two pigeons in the same > > hole? > > ## # > ## # > ######################################### > ######################################### > ## ###### > ## ########## > ############ > ############## > ############# > ############# > ############## > ############# > ############## > ############# > ############## > ############# # > ############# # > ######################################### > ######################################### > # > > ######## > ############### > ################## > ##################### > #### #### > ## ## > ## ## > ## ## > ## ### > ## ## > #### #### > ##################### > ################## > ############### > ######## http://arxiv.org/abs/1407.3194
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| From | GogoJF <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-01-20 17:24 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <ee018d45-027e-41bd-80c8-24d73c99f9bc@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #546836 |
On Wednesday, January 20, 2016 at 4:58:06 PM UTC-6, Sam Wormley wrote: > Can three pigeons be in two pigeonholes with no two pigeons in the same > hole? > > http://phys.org/news/2016-01-pigeons-pigeonholes-hole.html > > > > Research published this month in the Proceedings of the National > > Academy of Sciences (PNAS) introduced a new quantum phenomenon which > > the authors called the "quantum pigeonhole principle." Prior to this > > breakthrough, the pigeonhole principle was a basic tenet of > > conventional wisdom. It states that if you put three pigeons in two > > pigeonholes then at least two of the pigeons must end up in the same > > hole. It is an obvious yet fundamental principle of nature as it > > captures the very essence of counting. The research, conducted by > > members of Chapman University's Institute for Quantum Studies (IQS), > > violates this principle. The study demonstrates how to put an > > arbitrarily large number of particles in two boxes without any two > > particles ending up in the same box. > > > > "This discovery points to a very interesting structure of quantum > > mechanics that was hitherto unnoticed," said Yakir Aharonov, Ph.D., > > and co-director of Chapman's IQS. "This now requires us to revisit > > some of the most basic notions of nature." > > > > The paper, called Quantum violation of the pigeonhole principle and > > the nature of quantum correlations, discusses several possible > > experiments which explore implications for the nature of interactions > > between particles. > > > -- > > sci.physics is an unmoderated newsgroup dedicated > to the discussion of physics, news from the physics > community, and physics-related social issues. Good post.
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| From | Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-01-20 19:28 -0600 |
| Message-ID | <atednaEwfreoqT3LnZ2dnUU7-XmdnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #546863 |
On 1/20/16 7:24 PM, GogoJF wrote: > On Wednesday, January 20, 2016 at 4:58:06 PM UTC-6, Sam Wormley wrote: >> Can three pigeons be in two pigeonholes with no two pigeons in the same >> hole? >>> http://phys.org/news/2016-01-pigeons-pigeonholes-hole.html >> >> >>> Research published this month in the Proceedings of the National >>> Academy of Sciences (PNAS) introduced a new quantum phenomenon which >>> the authors called the "quantum pigeonhole principle." Prior to this >>> breakthrough, the pigeonhole principle was a basic tenet of >>> conventional wisdom. It states that if you put three pigeons in two >>> pigeonholes then at least two of the pigeons must end up in the same >>> hole. It is an obvious yet fundamental principle of nature as it >>> captures the very essence of counting. The research, conducted by >>> members of Chapman University's Institute for Quantum Studies (IQS), >>> violates this principle. The study demonstrates how to put an >>> arbitrarily large number of particles in two boxes without any two >>> particles ending up in the same box. >>> >>> "This discovery points to a very interesting structure of quantum >>> mechanics that was hitherto unnoticed," said Yakir Aharonov, Ph.D., >>> and co-director of Chapman's IQS. "This now requires us to revisit >>> some of the most basic notions of nature." >>> >>> The paper, called Quantum violation of the pigeonhole principle and >>> the nature of quantum correlations, discusses several possible >>> experiments which explore implications for the nature of interactions >>> between particles. >> >> >> -- >> >> sci.physics is an unmoderated newsgroup dedicated >> to the discussion of physics, news from the physics >> community, and physics-related social issues. > > Good post. > Glad you enjoyed it Gogo. -- sci.physics is an unmoderated newsgroup dedicated to the discussion of physics, news from the physics community, and physics-related social issues.
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| From | "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-01-20 21:36 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <ad4b0e2a-6710-40ae-af24-b13822f16bb1@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #546836 |
On Wednesday, January 20, 2016 at 2:58:06 PM UTC-8, Sam Wormley wrote: > Can three pigeons be in two pigeonholes with no two pigeons in the same > hole? > > http://phys.org/news/2016-01-pigeons-pigeonholes-hole.html > > > > Research published this month in the Proceedings of the National > > Academy of Sciences (PNAS) introduced a new quantum phenomenon which > > the authors called the "quantum pigeonhole principle." Prior to this > > breakthrough, the pigeonhole principle was a basic tenet of > > conventional wisdom. It states that if you put three pigeons in two > > pigeonholes then at least two of the pigeons must end up in the same > > hole. It is an obvious yet fundamental principle of nature as it > > captures the very essence of counting. The research, conducted by > > members of Chapman University's Institute for Quantum Studies (IQS), > > violates this principle. The study demonstrates how to put an > > arbitrarily large number of particles in two boxes without any two > > particles ending up in the same box. > > > > "This discovery points to a very interesting structure of quantum > > mechanics that was hitherto unnoticed," said Yakir Aharonov, Ph.D., > > and co-director of Chapman's IQS. "This now requires us to revisit > > some of the most basic notions of nature." > > > > The paper, called Quantum violation of the pigeonhole principle and > > the nature of quantum correlations, discusses several possible > > experiments which explore implications for the nature of interactions > > between particles. > > From the article: "But if your only tool is a hammer, then you tend to treat everything as if it were a nail," says Tollaksen. "The problem was that the 'hammer-type' measurements usually are not the most useful in figuring out how the quantum world links the future with the present in subtle and significant ways." Aharonov and his team have worked for two decades on new types of gentle "weak measurements," which can see these linkages--"akin to tapping something softly with your finger rather than smashing it with that hammer, which forces each pigeon to be in a single box," Tollaksen says. Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2016-01-pigeons-pigeonholes-hole.html#jCp From the abstract: "We find instances when three quantum particles are put in two boxes, yet no two particles are in the same box." The article says there is a supporting experiment, the abstract only suggests an experimental course, says to refer to Phys. Rev. A, if you happen to have that handy. Wondering that they've figured out a way, to, look at each box, and it's always the other one, like "Monty Haul". After all, all the particles are in all the boxes.
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| From | "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-01-20 21:46 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <9740ed6d-6943-4e34-8cd5-01a85e01aad1@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #546914 |
On Wednesday, January 20, 2016 at 9:36:18 PM UTC-8, Ross A. Finlayson wrote: > On Wednesday, January 20, 2016 at 2:58:06 PM UTC-8, Sam Wormley wrote: > > Can three pigeons be in two pigeonholes with no two pigeons in the same > > hole? > > > http://phys.org/news/2016-01-pigeons-pigeonholes-hole.html > > > > > > > Research published this month in the Proceedings of the National > > > Academy of Sciences (PNAS) introduced a new quantum phenomenon which > > > the authors called the "quantum pigeonhole principle." Prior to this > > > breakthrough, the pigeonhole principle was a basic tenet of > > > conventional wisdom. It states that if you put three pigeons in two > > > pigeonholes then at least two of the pigeons must end up in the same > > > hole. It is an obvious yet fundamental principle of nature as it > > > captures the very essence of counting. The research, conducted by > > > members of Chapman University's Institute for Quantum Studies (IQS), > > > violates this principle. The study demonstrates how to put an > > > arbitrarily large number of particles in two boxes without any two > > > particles ending up in the same box. > > > > > > "This discovery points to a very interesting structure of quantum > > > mechanics that was hitherto unnoticed," said Yakir Aharonov, Ph.D., > > > and co-director of Chapman's IQS. "This now requires us to revisit > > > some of the most basic notions of nature." > > > > > > The paper, called Quantum violation of the pigeonhole principle and > > > the nature of quantum correlations, discusses several possible > > > experiments which explore implications for the nature of interactions > > > between particles. > > > > > > From the article: > > "But if your only tool is a hammer, > then you tend to treat everything > as if it were a nail," says Tollaksen. > "The problem was that the 'hammer-type' > measurements usually are not the most > useful in figuring out how the quantum > world links the future with the present > in subtle and significant ways." > > Aharonov and his team have worked for > two decades on new types of gentle > "weak measurements," which can see > these linkages--"akin to tapping something > softly with your finger rather than > smashing it with that hammer, which > forces each pigeon to be in a single box," > Tollaksen says. > > > > Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2016-01-pigeons-pigeonholes-hole.html#jCp > > > From the abstract: > > "We find instances when three quantum > particles are put in two boxes, yet no > two particles are in the same box." > > The article says there is a supporting > experiment, the abstract only suggests > an experimental course, says to refer to > Phys. Rev. A, if you happen to have that handy. > > > > Wondering that they've figured out a way, > to, look at each box, and it's always > the other one, like "Monty Haul". After > all, all the particles are in all the boxes. "Furthermore, both the preparation and the postselection are done independently, acting on each particle separately. " Uh, what's in the other box.
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