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What color water tank is best?

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  What color water tank is best? micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> - 2018-04-08 07:58 +0300
    Re: What color water tank is best? Libor 'Poutnik' Stříž <poutnik@privacy.net> - 2018-04-08 10:39 +0200
      Re: What color water tank is best? Libor 'Poutnik' Stříž <poutnik@privacy.net> - 2018-04-08 11:10 +0200
      Re: What color water tank is best? Gaston Levell <jno@itwjwg.tn> - 2018-04-08 10:53 +0000
        Re: What color water tank is best? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-04-08 17:28 +0200
        Re: What color water tank is best? Lofty Goat <rlwatkins@gmail.com> - 2018-04-08 20:12 -0500
          Re: What color water tank is best? Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-04-09 12:30 -0500
            Re: What color water tank is best? Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2018-04-13 22:59 -0700
              Re: What color water tank is best? benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2018-04-14 13:49 -0400
                Re: What color water tank is best? Libor P Striz <poutnik@privacy.net> - 2018-04-15 07:27 +0200

#680290 — What color water tank is best?

Assume a large metal tank of water is placed on top of a house to
provide hot water for the kithen sink and the bathroom sink and tub. 

Assume sundown is at 6.  What color should the tank be?

AIUI, white will not absord the heat as well, but it will keep the heat
it does absorb longer, so there will be hot water until 7,8,9 PM

But black will absorb the heat faster, will be able to absorb more heat
on grey days, and will have hot water ready by noon instead of 2PM.
However it will cool off sooner and the tank will be losing heat even
maybe before sundown and very likely the water will be almost cold by 7.


Which of my statements, clauses, adjectives, are incorrect?

What color should the tank be for best hot water?   The most hot water? 


Ignore the possibility of sometimes using a supplemental electric
heater, except that the solar heater is to be designed to make that as
little necessary as possible.. 

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#680304

Dne 08/04/2018 v 06:58 micky napsal(a):
> 
> Assume a large metal tank of water is placed on top of a house to
> provide hot water for the kithen sink and the bathroom sink and tub. 
> 
> Assume sundown is at 6.  What color should the tank be?
> 
> AIUI, white will not absord the heat as well, but it will keep the heat
> it does absorb longer, so there will be hot water until 7,8,9 PM
> 
> But black will absorb the heat faster, will be able to absorb more heat
> on grey days, and will have hot water ready by noon instead of 2PM.
> However it will cool off sooner and the tank will be losing heat even
> maybe before sundown and very likely the water will be almost cold by 7.
> 
> 
> Which of my statements, clauses, adjectives, are incorrect?
> 
> What color should the tank be for best hot water?   The most hot water? 
> 
> 
> Ignore the possibility of sometimes using a supplemental electric
> heater, except that the solar heater is to be designed to make that as
> little necessary as possible.. 

Why do you post the same question again,
when you have already got a lot of answers ?

The majority of absorbed energy is visible light, not heat,
as majority of incident power is in visible range.
The heat is created when the light is absorbed.

In thermal IR region, both black and white colours
are generally comparably "IR black or at least dark",
in sense of absorption and emission of thermal IR.

Therefore, heat loses difference is negligible.
( Blacking of electronic cooler radiators is
 because they are metallic, not light,
and difference is not drastic )

So, the solution is black. FIG 1

Optional, but with high advantage,
is to create a passive water circuit, FIG2
with the collector separated from a reservoir,
powered by water density difference.

The collector is best to have a low volume,
from set of black tubes,
surrounded by focusing reflecting surface,
like alufoil in half circle shape.
This would increase the water temperature

Separation of the collector and reservoir
has another reason for higher efficiency:

Until the reservoir is full,
the collector is still filled by cool water,
so water heating rate is not disturbed.


------------------------------------

Watch with a monospace font.

FIG 1

3
<-----o---------------------------o
      |                           |
      | water down                |  water up
      |                      ----------
      |                      |        |
      |                      |   2    |
      |                      |        |
..... |......................|........|.....
      |                      |        |
      |                      |        |
      |                      |        |
      |                      ----------
      |                           |
      |                           |           1
      \-------------------------- o---------<-

1 - a water supply
2 - a black reservoir
3 - to warm tap water
. - floating cold/warm water fuzzy boundary.


FIG 2
<-----o-<-/------------------\
  3   |   |      4           |
      |   \------------------/--<-\
      |                           |
      |                           |
      |                           |
      |  water down               | water up
      |                           |
..............................................
      |                           |
      |                           |
      |                           |
      |                      ----------
      |                      |  |  |  |
      |                      |  |  |  |
      |                      |  |  |  |
      |                      |  | 2|  |
      |                      |  |  |  |
      |                      |  |  |  |
      |                      ----------
      |                           |
      |                           |       1
      \-------------------------- o-----<---

1 - a water supply
2 - a black collectors with reflective focusing alufoil.
3 - to warm tap water
4 - insulated warm water reservoir ( any colour )
. - floating cold/warm water fuzzy boundary.



-- 
Poutnik ( The Pilgrim, Der Wanderer )

A wise man guards words he says,
as they say about him more,
than he says about the subject.

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#680307

Dne 08/04/2018 v 10:39 Libor 'Poutnik' Stříž napsal(a):
> 

> 
> Optional, but with high advantage,
> is to create a passive water circuit, FIG2
> with the collector separated from a reservoir,
> powered by water density difference.
> 
> The collector is best to have a low volume,
> from set of black tubes,
> surrounded by focusing reflecting surface,
> like alufoil in half circle shape.
> This would increase the water temperature
> 
Note: For such closed systems, important thing is
to include an expansion tube to eliminate
water thermal dilation.


-- 
Poutnik ( The Pilgrim, Der Wanderer )

A wise man guards words he says,
as they say about him more,
than he says about the subject.

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#680308

Libor 'Poutnik' Stříž wrote:

> The majority of absorbed energy is visible light, not heat,
> as majority of incident power is in visible range.
> The heat is created when the light is absorbed.

Light is not energy, you uneducated moron. You are a shame for your 
country, and for the in the past excellent education system.

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#680320

The ’nym-shifting troll trolled as "Gaston Levell" <jno@itwjwg.tn> wrote:
                                                        ^^^^^^^^^
> Libor 'Poutnik' Stříž wrote:
>> The majority of absorbed energy is visible light, not heat,
>> as majority of incident power is in visible range.
>> The heat is created when the light is absorbed.
>  
> Light is not energy,

More precisely, it _has_ energy: it transports energy from one body to 
another.  The energy of a photon, the quantum of light/EM radiation/the EM 
field, is precisely E = ℎ f, with ℎ the Planck constant and f the frequency 
of the radiation.  This is known since more than a hundred years now 
(Planck, 1900; Einstein, 1905).

From where do you get your energy to live?
How can you see (light)?
What is a solar cell?
What is a cathode-ray tube?
What is a laser?
What is a solar sail?

First read, then think, then post.

> [I am an] uneducated moron […]

That much is obvious.

*PLONK*


PointedEars
-- 
Q: How many theoretical physicists specializing in general relativity
   does it take to change a light bulb?  
A: Two: one to hold the bulb and one to rotate the universe.
(from: WolframAlpha)

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#680394

On Sun, 8 Apr 2018 10:53:52 +0000 (UTC), Gaston Levell wrote:

>Libor 'Poutnik' St?íž wrote:
>
>> The majority of absorbed energy is visible light, not heat,
>> as majority of incident power is in visible range.
>> The heat is created when the light is absorbed.
>
> Light is not energy, you uneducated moron. You are a shame for your 
> country, and for the in the past excellent education system.

Wow.  Four factual errors in two sentences.  You're going for the
record, right?  You've some fierce competition here.

-- 
Goat

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#680466

On 4/8/2018 8:12 PM, Lofty Goat wrote:
> On Sun, 8 Apr 2018 10:53:52 +0000 (UTC), Gaston Levell wrote:
> 
>> Libor 'Poutnik' St?íž wrote:
>>
>>> The majority of absorbed energy is visible light, not heat,
>>> as majority of incident power is in visible range.
>>> The heat is created when the light is absorbed.
>>
>> Light is not energy, you uneducated moron. You are a shame for your 
>> country, and for the in the past excellent education system.
> 
> Wow.  Four factual errors in two sentences.  You're going for the
> record, right?  You've some fierce competition here.
> 

>Light is not energy, you uneducated moron.

1.  https://www.teachengineering.org/lessons/view/cub_energy2_lesson03

2. many morons are educated, how can you determine this one is not ?

3. "Moron" was coined in 1910 by psychologist Henry H. Goddard[3] from
the Ancient Greek word μωρός (moros), which meant "dull"[4] and used to
describe a person with a mental age in adulthood of between 8 and 12 on
the Binet scale.[5] It was once applied to people with an IQ of 51–70,
being superior in one degree to "imbecile" (IQ of 26–50) and superior in
two degrees to "idiot" (IQ of 0–25). The word moron, along with others
including, "idiotic", "imbecilic", "stupid", and "feeble-minded", was
formerly considered a valid descriptor in the psychological community,
but it is now deprecated in use by psychologists.[6]

Question: is Moron the correct word to use here ?


>> You are a shame for your
>> country, and for the in the past excellent education system.

Poutnik is ok, he shines the light of science into this newsgroup, his
country is proud (they record everything too, like FB and Google)

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#681011

On Monday, April 9, 2018 at 1:30:21 PM UTC-4, Sergio wrote:
> On 4/8/2018 8:12 PM, Lofty Goat wrote:
> > On Sun, 8 Apr 2018 10:53:52 +0000 (UTC), Gaston Levell wrote:
> > 
> >> Libor 'Poutnik' St?íž wrote:
> >>
> >>> The majority of absorbed energy is visible light, not heat,
> >>> as majority of incident power is in visible range.
> >>> The heat is created when the light is absorbed.
> >>
> >> Light is not energy, you uneducated moron. You are a shame for your 
> >> country, and for the in the past excellent education system.

It's a stretch to undermine an entire country based upon one person's
accomplishments or lack thereof. Whether you like him or not, not even
in the USA, all citizens are misbehaved like President TrumpET.

> > Wow.  Four factual errors in two sentences.  You're going for the
> > record, right?  You've some fierce competition here.
> 
> >Light is not energy, you uneducated moron.

Is there a echo in here, you two seem to be repeating each other.
Question, if light in not energy, then what is photosynthesis, why is
it warmer in the sunlight than under the shade, solar radiation
pressure, E=hf, etc...? In sum, what is light then if not energy?

> 1.  https://www.teachengineering.org/lessons/view/cub_energy2_lesson03
> 
> 2. many morons are educated, how can you determine this one is not ?

By bad behaviour mostly.

> 3. "Moron" was coined in 1910 by psychologist Henry H. Goddard[3] from
> the Ancient Greek word μωρός (moros), which meant "dull"[4] and used to
> describe a person with a mental age in adulthood of between 8 and 12 on
> the Binet scale.[5] It was once applied to people with an IQ of 51–70,
> being superior in one degree to "imbecile" (IQ of 26–50) and superior in
> two degrees to "idiot" (IQ of 0–25). The word moron, along with others
> including, "idiotic", "imbecilic", "stupid", and "feeble-minded", was
> formerly considered a valid descriptor in the psychological community,
> but it is now deprecated in use by psychologists.[6]
> 
> Question: is Moron the correct word to use here ?

Most posters come here to call others belittling names.

Sure, but why worry? Everytime I reflect upon me, pondering how my
life turned out, I inevitably call myself a moron Moron MORON.

> >> You are a shame for your
> >> country, and for the in the past excellent education system.> 
> 
> Poutnik is ok, he shines the light of science into this newsgroup, his
> country is proud (they record everything too, like FB and Google)

Poutnik is okay, tries hard to stay on topic. His country recorded all
human activity too, long before FB and Google. I suspect villagers
thousands+ years ago, the Earth over, knew each other's daily activites.

-- Mahipal == माहिपाल "My Pal" or "Maple" Loops, S(y)rup, Wood. IPMM ७६३८! 
Enjo(y)... Salute… Cheers... Open your M I N D… Time it is Is IS 3PM somePlace. 

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#681037

On 4/14/2018 1:59 AM, Mahipal wrote:
> On Monday, April 9, 2018 at 1:30:21 PM UTC-4, Sergio wrote:
>> On 4/8/2018 8:12 PM, Lofty Goat wrote:
>>> On Sun, 8 Apr 2018 10:53:52 +0000 (UTC), Gaston Levell wrote:
>>>
>>>> Libor 'Poutnik' St?íž wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The majority of absorbed energy is visible light, not heat,
>>>>> as majority of incident power is in visible range.
>>>>> The heat is created when the light is absorbed.
>>>>
>>>> Light is not energy, you uneducated moron. You are a shame for your
>>>> country, and for the in the past excellent education system.
> 
> It's a stretch to undermine an entire country based upon one person's
> accomplishments or lack thereof. Whether you like him or not, not even
> in the USA, all citizens are misbehaved like President TrumpET.
> 
>>> Wow.  Four factual errors in two sentences.  You're going for the
>>> record, right?  You've some fierce competition here.
>>
>>> Light is not energy, you uneducated moron.
> 
> Is there a echo in here, you two seem to be repeating each other.
> Question, if light in not energy, then what is photosynthesis, why is
> it warmer in the sunlight than under the shade, solar radiation
> pressure, E=hf, etc...? In sum, what is light then if not energy?

It's warmer in the sun than in the shade because of CO2 and global 
warming, you moron! Plants love CO2 which has nothing to do with light 
or the supposed "energy" in light! Bert has shown us all that SPACE is 
just like a huge THERMOS bottle so NO HEAT can travel to the Earth from 
the sun. YOU are an IDIOT!!!!!!!!!! ... er excuse me I meant YOU are a 
MORON!!!!!!!!!!!


>> 1.  https://www.teachengineering.org/lessons/view/cub_energy2_lesson03
>>
>> 2. many morons are educated, how can you determine this one is not ?
> 
> By bad behaviour mostly.

Hey, I'm educated and look at how many here call me a moron!

>> 3. "Moron" was coined in 1910 by psychologist Henry H. Goddard[3] from
>> the Ancient Greek word μωρός (moros), which meant "dull"[4] and used to
>> describe a person with a mental age in adulthood of between 8 and 12 on
>> the Binet scale.[5] It was once applied to people with an IQ of 51–70,
>> being superior in one degree to "imbecile" (IQ of 26–50) and superior in
>> two degrees to "idiot" (IQ of 0–25). The word moron, along with others
>> including, "idiotic", "imbecilic", "stupid", and "feeble-minded", was
>> formerly considered a valid descriptor in the psychological community,
>> but it is now deprecated in use by psychologists.[6]
>>
>> Question: is Moron the correct word to use here ?
> 
> Most posters come here to call others belittling names.

What else is there to do that fun? Certainly no intellectual discussions 
of science going one.

> Sure, but why worry? Everytime I reflect upon me, pondering how my
> life turned out, I inevitably call myself a moron Moron MORON.

Well, there you go moron! You've joined the fun here in calling you a 
moron!!!!!!  Calling you a kook is next.

>>>> You are a shame for your
>>>> country, and for the in the past excellent education system.>
>>
>> Poutnik is ok, he shines the light of science into this newsgroup, his
>> country is proud (they record everything too, like FB and Google)
> 
> Poutnik is okay, tries hard to stay on topic. His country recorded all
> human activity too, long before FB and Google. I suspect villagers
> thousands+ years ago, the Earth over, knew each other's daily activites.

Pooter is OK (for someone who is totally lost).

> -- Mahipal == माहिपाल "My Pal" or "Maple" Loops, S(y)rup, Wood. IPMM ७६३८!
> Enjo(y)... Salute… Cheers... Open your M I N D… Time it is Is IS 3PM somePlace.
> 

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#681102

Dne 14/04/2018 v 19:49 benj napsal(a):
> On 4/14/2018 1:59 AM, Mahipal wrote:
>> On Monday, April 9, 2018 at 1:30:21 PM UTC-4, Sergio wrote:
>>> On 4/8/2018 8:12 PM, Lofty Goat wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 8 Apr 2018 10:53:52 +0000 (UTC), Gaston Levell wrote:
>>>>> Libor 'Poutnik' St?íž wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Light is not energy, you uneducated moron. You are a shame for your
>>>>> country, and for the in the past excellent education system.
>>
>> It's a stretch to undermine an entire country based upon one person's
>> accomplishments or lack thereof. Whether you like him or not, not even
>> in the USA, all citizens are misbehaved like President TrumpET.

Of course light is not energy, but it just carries energy.
IT is a frequent shortcut, similarly as "the speed wrt the observer"
is the shortcut for "the speed wrt the coordinate system where the
observer is in rest". All physicists and most of scientists
do know what is meant by that.

But that is not case of our dear nymshifting troll, in that time Gaston,
who is not consistent even in his sex, told by his names.

When I was studying, there were jokes
about ignorance of typical American high school students.
But since we more or less adopted the American education system later,
the general level of the education outcome went downhill.

>>>>> You are a shame for your
>>>>> country, and for the in the past excellent education system.>
>>>
>>> Poutnik is ok, he shines the light of science into this newsgroup, his
>>> country is proud (they record everything too, like FB and Google)
>>
>> Poutnik is okay, tries hard to stay on topic. His country recorded all
>> human activity too, long before FB and Google. I suspect villagers
>> thousands+ years ago, the Earth over, knew each other's daily activites.
> 
> Pooter is OK (for someone who is totally lost).

Before marking others as totally lost,
learn first the proper usage of the word totally.
If you know it, then the next paragraph applies.

Keeping your typical conversational behaviour,
you manifest a questionable social intelligence
and do not wonder if many people call you a moron for a reason.

-- 
Poutnik ( The Pilgrim, Der Wanderer )

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