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Re: CH4 for Odd

From moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)
Newsgroups sci.physics
Subject Re: CH4 for Odd
Date 2017-06-15 12:39 +0000
Organization The World : www.TheWorld.com : Since 1989
Message-ID <ohtv5o$n3c$1@pcls7.std.com> (permalink)
References <0ee2d640-af96-4f4d-8832-e37f34492f5f@googlegroups.com> <ohs314$1u7u$1@gioia.aioe.org> <ohs4bl$5pv$1@pcls7.std.com> <5af60f62-1c85-4da8-843f-ae4f4fb73f25@googlegroups.com>

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john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> writes:

>MM
>"another direction.  This is different from real methane, where there 
>is no way to tell any one hydrogen from any other, like an unlabeled 
>regular tetrahedron. "
>Michael, if you can't tell one from another in the
>first place, because you don't have the
>picture, how does being able to do that now,
>because you do have the picture, invalidate
>having the picture? 

Simple.  It is known that in a real methane molecule it is 100% perfectly
symmetrical.  Imagine a perfect tetrahedron.  All faces, edges and
vertices are identical.  Now, while you are not looking, someone either
rotates the tetrahedron on its base, places it on another face, or does
nothing.  How can you tell what, or if anything, was done to the 
tetrahedron?  Simple. You can't.  And methane is exactly like that.

However, with what you came up with, all you would have to do is to
examine the retardedness of the precessing spinny things.  Namely the
direction of the axis of retardedness.  There are multiple possibilities,
multiple directions.  Therefore, you broke the symmetry of thetetrahedron,
and predict stuff for methane that simply does not exist in real life.


>Plus, I'm not sure the axis of precession 
>need be fixed.

Sure, you don't, but chemists and physicists would consider this a deal
breaker.

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CH4 for Odd john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-06-14 11:46 -0700
  Re: CH4 for Odd "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2017-06-14 12:32 -0700
  Re: CH4 for Odd Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-14 14:32 -0500
    Re: CH4 for Odd Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-14 14:42 -0500
      Re: CH4 for Odd john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-06-14 14:27 -0700
        Re: CH4 for Odd john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-06-14 15:13 -0700
          Re: CH4 for Odd Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-15 08:38 -0500
        Re: CH4 for Odd Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-15 08:33 -0500
          Re: CH4 for Odd poraty350@gmail.com - 2017-06-15 09:35 -0700
            Re: CH4 for Odd HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2017-06-15 11:14 -0700
        Re: CH4 for Odd Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-15 08:50 -0500
          Re: CH4 for Odd john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-06-15 07:08 -0700
            Re: CH4 for Odd john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-06-15 07:40 -0700
              Re: CH4 for Odd Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-15 10:46 -0500
              Re: CH4 for Odd moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-06-15 16:05 +0000
            Re: CH4 for Odd Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-15 10:41 -0500
    Re: CH4 for Odd moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-06-14 19:55 +0000
      Re: CH4 for Odd Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-14 15:55 -0500
      Re: CH4 for Odd john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-06-14 14:16 -0700
        Re: CH4 for Odd moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-06-15 12:39 +0000
          Re: CH4 for Odd poraty350@gmail.com - 2017-06-15 09:33 -0700
            Re: CH4 for Odd Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-15 16:40 -0500
              Re: CH4 for Odd poraty350@gmail.com - 2017-06-16 00:30 -0700
                Re: CH4 for Odd Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-16 15:53 -0500
                Re: CH4 for Odd poraty350@gmail.com - 2017-06-16 21:50 -0700
      Re: CH4 for Odd john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-06-14 20:29 -0700
        Re: CH4 for Odd poraty350@gmail.com - 2017-06-14 21:26 -0700
        Re: CH4 for Odd moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-06-15 12:48 +0000
          Re: CH4 for Odd john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-06-15 08:22 -0700
            Re: CH4 for Odd Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-15 10:49 -0500
            Re: CH4 for Odd moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-06-15 16:12 +0000
              Re: CH4 for Odd john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-06-15 18:24 -0700
                Re: CH4 for Odd moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-06-16 07:17 +0000
                Re: CH4 for Odd john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-06-16 04:22 -0700
                Re: CH4 for Odd Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-16 08:16 -0500
                Re: CH4 for Odd john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-06-16 06:49 -0700
                Re: CH4 for Odd Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-16 15:10 -0500
                Re: CH4 for Odd poraty350@gmail.com - 2017-06-16 21:37 -0700
                Re: CH4 for Odd moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-06-16 15:03 +0000
                Re: CH4 for Odd john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-06-16 08:50 -0700
                Re: CH4 for Odd moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-06-16 19:44 +0000
                Re: CH4 for Odd Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-16 15:07 -0500
                Re: CH4 for Odd john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-06-17 06:14 -0700
                Re: CH4 for Odd moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-06-17 14:10 +0000
                Re: CH4 for Odd Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-17 21:24 +0000
                Re: CH4 for Odd poraty350@gmail.com - 2017-06-17 15:52 -0700
                Re: CH4 for Odd john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-06-17 16:44 -0700
                Re: CH4 for Odd moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-06-18 00:09 +0000
                Re: CH4 for Odd poraty350@gmail.com - 2017-06-17 21:50 -0700
                Re: CH4 for Odd Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-18 02:50 +0000
                Re: CH4 for Odd poraty350@gmail.com - 2017-06-17 21:57 -0700
                Re: CH4 for Odd Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-19 12:40 -0500
                Re: CH4 for Odd john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-06-18 08:42 -0700
                Re: CH4 for Odd john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-06-18 08:51 -0700
                Re: CH4 for Odd john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-06-18 09:03 -0700
                Re: CH4 for Odd moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-06-19 01:04 +0000
                Re: CH4 for Odd Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-19 12:51 -0500
                Re: CH4 for Odd moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-06-19 01:03 +0000
                Re: CH4 for Odd poraty350@gmail.com - 2017-06-18 21:33 -0700
                Re: CH4 for Odd Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-19 12:52 -0500
                Re: CH4 for Odd poraty350@gmail.com - 2017-06-20 04:49 -0700
                Re: CH4 for Odd Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-20 08:36 -0500
                Re: CH4 for Odd poraty350@gmail.com - 2017-06-18 21:31 -0700
                Re: CH4 for Odd Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-19 12:48 -0500
                Re: CH4 for Odd john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-06-20 04:53 -0700
                Re: CH4 for Odd Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-20 08:38 -0500
                Re: CH4 for Odd moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-06-20 14:45 +0000
                Re: CH4 for Odd john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-06-21 08:09 -0700
                Re: CH4 for Odd Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-21 10:57 -0500
                Re: CH4 for Odd john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-06-21 09:41 -0700
                Re: CH4 for Odd john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-06-21 09:48 -0700
                Re: CH4 for Odd Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-21 15:00 -0500
                Re: CH4 for Odd poraty350@gmail.com - 2017-06-21 09:51 -0700
                Re: CH4 for Odd john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-06-21 10:10 -0700
                Re: CH4 for Odd Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-21 15:08 -0500
                Re: CH4 for Odd john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-06-21 13:27 -0700
                Re: CH4 for Odd Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-21 15:43 -0500
                Re: CH4 for Odd moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-06-21 20:49 +0000
                Re: CH4 for Odd poraty350@gmail.com - 2017-06-22 00:19 -0700
                Re: CH4 for Odd poraty350@gmail.com - 2017-06-22 03:58 -0700
                Re: CH4 for Odd Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-22 12:39 +0000
                Re: CH4 for Odd Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-22 12:38 +0000
                Re: CH4 for Odd john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-06-22 06:13 -0700
                Re: CH4 for Odd HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2017-06-22 06:22 -0700
                Re: CH4 for Odd john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-06-22 07:33 -0700
                Re: CH4 for Odd john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-06-22 07:55 -0700
                Re: CH4 for Odd moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-06-22 15:21 +0000
                Re: CH4 for Odd john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-06-22 08:40 -0700
                Re: CH4 for Odd moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-06-22 16:57 +0000
                Re: CH4 for Odd Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-22 12:36 -0500
                Re: CH4 for Odd john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-06-22 08:44 -0700
                Re: CH4 for Odd Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-22 12:38 -0500
                Re: CH4 for Odd Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-22 12:33 -0500
                Re: CH4 for Odd HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2017-06-21 10:10 -0700
                Re: CH4 for Odd moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-06-21 18:23 +0000
                Re: CH4 for Odd john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-06-21 08:21 -0700
                Re: CH4 for Odd Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-21 11:01 -0500
                Re: CH4 for Odd moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-06-21 18:37 +0000
                Re: CH4 for Odd john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-06-21 12:37 -0700
                Re: CH4 for Odd john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-06-21 13:02 -0700
                Re: CH4 for Odd moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-06-21 21:07 +0000
                Re: CH4 for Odd john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-06-21 17:46 -0700
                Re: CH4 for Odd benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2017-06-21 21:35 -0400
                Re: CH4 for Odd HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2017-06-22 04:01 -0700
                Re: CH4 for Odd john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-06-22 05:10 -0700
                Re: CH4 for Odd HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2017-06-22 08:53 -0700
                Re: CH4 for Odd Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-22 12:41 -0500
                Re: CH4 for Odd john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-06-22 11:19 -0700
                Re: CH4 for Odd HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2017-06-22 11:26 -0700
                Re: CH4 for Odd john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-06-22 11:51 -0700
                Re: CH4 for Odd Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-22 15:25 -0500
                Re: CH4 for Odd john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-06-22 15:24 -0700
                Re: CH4 for Odd HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2017-06-22 17:45 -0700
                Re: CH4 for Odd Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2017-06-22 19:30 -0700
                Re: CH4 for Odd moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-06-23 03:33 +0000
                Re: CH4 for Odd Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-23 07:25 -0500
                Re: CH4 for Odd john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-06-23 08:58 -0700
                Re: CH4 for Odd moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-06-23 17:40 +0000
                Re: CH4 for Odd Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-23 14:32 -0500
                Re: CH4 for Odd john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-06-24 05:28 -0700
                Re: CH4 for Odd moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-06-24 14:38 +0000
                Re: CH4 for Odd john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-06-24 13:02 -0700
                Re: CH4 for Odd moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-06-24 23:29 +0000
                Re: CH4 for Odd john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-06-24 17:45 -0700
                Re: CH4 for Odd Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-25 03:14 +0000
                Re: CH4 for Odd moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-06-25 03:16 +0000
                Re: CH4 for Odd john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-06-24 21:05 -0700
                Re: CH4 for Odd moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-06-27 00:04 +0000
                Re: CH4 for Odd john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-06-26 17:32 -0700
                Re: CH4 for Odd Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-27 01:32 +0000
                Re: CH4 for Odd moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-06-27 05:09 +0000
                Re: CH4 for Odd Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-24 15:46 -0500
                Re: CH4 for Odd john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-06-24 15:28 -0700
                Re: CH4 for Odd Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-25 03:14 +0000
                Re: CH4 for Odd poraty350@gmail.com - 2017-06-20 01:39 -0700
                Re: CH4 for Odd Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-20 08:34 -0500
                Re: CH4 for Odd Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-16 08:07 -0500
  Re: CH4 for Odd Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-14 16:00 -0500
  Re: CH4 for Odd Sегgi о <iinvalid@invalid.com> - 2017-06-14 17:40 -0500
  CH4 for Odd HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2017-06-14 17:51 -0700
    CH4 for Odd john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2017-06-14 20:22 -0700
      CH4 for Odd HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2017-06-15 02:54 -0700

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