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Re: Convection is fiction

From Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com>
Newsgroups sci.physics
Subject Re: Convection is fiction
Date 2016-08-22 17:17 +0200
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <npf533$3iv$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References (2 earlier) <23764527.rf7BzDKH0Z@PointedEars.de> <npck4c$an1$1@dont-email.me> <3417480.EDgDQdayNf@PointedEars.de> <npcmfi$itb$1@dont-email.me> <7136384.FZu9sWqOn4@PointedEars.de>

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On 08/21/2016 07:09 PM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> Poutnik wrote:
>
>> Dne 21/08/2016 v 18:46 Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn napsal(a):
>>> Thank you.  The figures vary.  Danielson et al. say at average 20 km in
>>> the tropics, 17 km in mid latitudes, and 7 km in polar regions *in
>>> winter*.
>>>
>>> That explains why there are few hailstorms in the tropics.
>>>
>> Aside of that, Cumulonimbus has custom
>> to bulge the tropopause up, so it is locally higher.
>
> Please cite evidence.
>

E.g.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tropopause#Phenomena

"The tropopause is not a "hard" boundary. Vigorous thunderstorms, for 
example, particularly those of tropical origin, will overshoot into the 
lower stratosphere and undergo a brief (hour-order or less) 
low-frequency vertical oscillation.[11] ...."

Shenk, W. E. (1974). "Cloud top height variability of strong convective 
cells". Journal of Applied Meteorology. American Meteorological Society. 
13: 918–922. Bibcode:1974JApMe..13..917S.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convective_overshoot
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overshooting_top

"An overshooting top (or penetrating top) is a dome-like protrusion that 
shoots out of the top of the anvil of a thunderstorm. When an 
overshooting top is present for 10 minutes or longer, it is a strong 
indication that the thunderstorm may be severe.[1]"

"When a thunderstorm forms, clouds build vertically into the atmosphere 
until the storm's updraft (warm rising air) has reached an equilibrium 
level (EL); the point where the surrounding air is about the same 
temperature or even warmer.[2] This point of equilibrium is often marked 
by the tropopause. Rather than continuing to rise into the stratosphere, 
the vertical cloud growth abruptly stops, and instead clouds spread 
horizontally, forming an "anvil" shape on top of the thunderstorm.[1]

An overshooting top forms when a thunderstorm's updraft, due to momentum 
from rapid ascent and strength of lifting, protrudes its equilibrium 
level, forming a dome-like structure on top of the anvil.[3] This can 
occur with any cumulonimbus cloud when instability is high. Whereas 
anvils form at the equilibrium level, overshooting tops continue to the 
maximum parcel level (MPL)."

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Thread

Convection is fiction Claudius Denk <claudiusdenk@gmail.com> - 2016-08-13 09:44 -0700
  Re: Convection is fiction James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2016-08-13 15:14 -0700
  Re: Convection is fiction Michael J. Strickland <michael06582@comcast.net> - 2016-08-17 19:01 -0400
    Re: Convection is fiction James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2016-08-17 16:28 -0700
      Re: Convection is fiction James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2016-08-17 22:20 -0700
    Re: Convection is fiction Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-08-21 17:57 +0200
      Re: Convection is fiction Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-08-21 18:16 +0200
        Re: Convection is fiction Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-08-21 18:46 +0200
          Re: Convection is fiction Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-08-21 18:56 +0200
            Re: Convection is fiction Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-08-21 19:09 +0200
              Re: Convection is fiction Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-08-21 19:27 +0200
              Re: Convection is fiction Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-08-22 07:39 +0200
                Re: Convection is fiction James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2016-08-22 19:58 -0700
              Re: Convection is fiction Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-08-22 17:17 +0200
                Re: Convection is fiction James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2016-08-22 20:02 -0700
            Re: Convection is fiction James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2016-08-21 12:38 -0700
              Re: Convection is fiction Claudius Denk <claudiusdenk@gmail.com> - 2016-08-21 17:11 -0700
                Re: Convection is fiction James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2016-08-21 19:59 -0700
        Re: Re: Convection is fiction Michael J. Strickland <michael06582@comcast.net> - 2016-08-21 22:34 -0400
          Re: Convection is fiction Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-08-22 06:52 +0200
          Re: Re: Convection is fiction Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-08-22 19:02 +0200
            Re: Convection is fiction Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-08-22 19:17 +0200
              Re: Convection is fiction James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2016-08-22 20:05 -0700
              Re: Convection is fiction Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-08-24 01:16 +0200
                Re: Convection is fiction Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-08-24 05:53 +0200
                Re: Convection is fiction Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-08-24 18:47 +0200
                Re: Convection is fiction Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-08-24 21:04 +0200
                Re: Convection is fiction Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-08-24 06:09 +0200
                Re: Convection is fiction Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-08-24 19:03 +0200
                Re: Convection is fiction Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-08-24 12:16 -0500
                Re: Convection is fiction James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2016-08-24 11:11 -0700
                Re: Convection is fiction Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-08-24 21:36 +0200
                Re: Convection is fiction Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-08-25 06:20 +0200
                Re: Convection is fiction Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-08-25 08:13 +0200
                Re: Convection is fiction Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-08-25 09:40 -0500
      Re: Convection is fiction James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2016-08-21 12:14 -0700
      Re: Convection is fiction Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-08-22 17:45 +0200
        Re: Convection is fiction Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-08-22 18:56 +0200
          Re: Convection is fiction Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-08-22 19:14 +0200
            Re: Convection is fiction Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-08-22 20:54 +0200
              Re: Convection is fiction Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-08-24 01:56 +0200
                Re: Convection is fiction Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-08-24 06:02 +0200
                Re: Convection is fiction Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-08-24 06:14 +0200
                Re: Convection is fiction Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-08-24 19:07 +0200
                Re: Convection is fiction Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-08-24 21:15 +0200
                Re: Convection is fiction Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-08-24 06:31 +0200
                Re: Convection is fiction Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-08-24 06:54 +0200
            Re: Convection is fiction Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-08-24 01:10 +0200
              Re: Convection is fiction Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-08-24 05:53 +0200
              Re: Convection is fiction Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-08-24 07:32 +0200
                Re: Convection is fiction Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-08-24 19:15 +0200
                Re: Convection is fiction Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-08-24 21:11 +0200
                Re: Convection is fiction Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-08-24 21:26 +0200
                Re: Convection is fiction Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-08-24 15:07 -0500
        Re: Convection is fiction James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2016-08-22 20:04 -0700
  Re: Convection is fiction Claudius Denk <claudiusdenk@gmail.com> - 2016-08-21 19:31 -0700

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