Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > sci.physics > #697557

Re: Rub Odd's nose in it.

From Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address>
Newsgroups sci.physics, sci.physics.relativity
Subject Re: Rub Odd's nose in it.
Date 2018-08-08 17:14 +1000
Message-ID <fsvjj0FcqkhU1@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References <pk64iv$1hqt$1@gioia.aioe.org> <fssbkdFl26kU1@mid.individual.net> <pkbmlu$d5l$1@gioia.aioe.org> <7cudnSH91s0jWvTGnZ2dnUU7_83NnZ2d@giganews.com> <pkdc26$15qf$1@gioia.aioe.org>

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

Show all headers | View raw

On 8/08/2018 10:04 AM, benj wrote:
> On 8/7/2018 12:24 PM, Tom Roberts wrote:
>> On 8/7/18 3:53 AM, benj wrote:
>>> Are you talking mathematics or physics?
>>
>> Both -- the mathematical structure of current physical theories and 
>> models.
>>
>>> Do you agree that agree with Odd that empty space containing no 
>>> charges and hence produces no forces on test charges is not devoid of 
>>> fields but actually is filled with an electric (an other types) of 
>>> fields whose value is simply zero?
>>
>> Yes. Because if you believe Maxwell's equations apply, or if you 
>> believe that QED applies, then you are FORCED to conclude there is a 
>> corresponding electromagnetic field everywhere, including regions in 
>> which it is zero (which really never happens).
>>
>>      As I said before, this is INHERENT in what "field" means.
>>
>> Tom Roberts
> 
> What you mean is that it is INHERENT in the definition what a vector 
> field is, mathematically. (Note you must use the term vector field 
> because otherwise the term can be confused with an algebraic field which 
> is something else entirely, right?)
> 
> A vector field starts with a region of some mathematical space and a 
> vector quantity is assigned to each point (an infinite number of them)
> in that subspace. Therefore, by definition the vector field exists 
> (assuming I have chosen to define one) even though all vectors at every 
> point are zero. You and Odd win, right? Of course if I choose NOT to 
> define a field in that space (reality is determined by my imagination, 
> right?) then there is no field in that subspace only a coordinate 
> system, unless I choose not to define one of those either, in which case 
> there is no subspace existing at all and I win, right?
> 
> Wrong. Mathematics is not more real than reality. In reality and in 
> Maxwell theory in particular, the mathematics is only a model to 
> describe what seems to be force field like phenomena produced by 
> charges. People (Odd's textbooks) love to talk about "fields" as if they 
> were real physical things. They are NOT. Forces are real, models are 
> fantasy. Hence when charges are missing, there are no forces present in 
> the subspace. People use the terminology that there are no "fields" 
> there but as seen above that is mathematically wrong on several counts 
> if someone has defined a null vector field there. And if a charge is 
> suddenly placed in that subspace it is known that forces from it will 
> NOT be measured immediately at a distance from it (unless we are talking 
> ESP interactions) as the actions travel away from the source at velocity c.
> 
>

Forces are as much models as fields are. Can you grab a force, and take 
one home?

All we ever have are models. Reality, if it exists, is forever out of 
our reach. Even what we think we're perceiving through our senses is 
nothing but an extrapolation that the brain makes based on models.

Sylvia.

Back to sci.physics | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread

Thread

Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-05 02:13 -0400
  Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. poraty6@gmail.com - 2018-08-05 00:19 -0700
  Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Tson Ylor <uo@srsysts.sd> - 2018-08-05 12:08 +0000
    Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. poraty6@gmail.com - 2018-08-05 10:08 -0700
  Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-05 13:06 +0000
    Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-05 12:10 -0400
      Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-05 18:57 +0000
        Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 13:33 -0400
          Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 18:07 +0000
            Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 17:23 -0400
              Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 22:43 +0000
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-07 04:39 -0400
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-07 13:45 +0000
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-07 08:38 -0700
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-07 16:56 +0000
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-07 20:11 -0400
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-08 15:24 +0000
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-08 08:42 -0700
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-08-08 11:49 -0500
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-08 13:07 -0400
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-08 17:02 +0000
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-08 12:51 -0400
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-07 13:06 -0400
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-07 17:27 +0000
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-07 12:50 -0400
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-08-07 10:32 -0700
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-07 17:58 +0000
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-07 12:11 -0700
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-08-08 09:43 -0700
  Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-08-05 08:27 -0500
    Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Tson Ylor <uo@srsysts.sg> - 2018-08-05 14:13 +0000
      Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-05 08:12 -0700
        Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-05 12:19 -0400
        Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 06:38 -0700
      Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-05 12:23 -0400
        Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Tson Ylor <uo@srsysts.sg> - 2018-08-05 17:47 +0000
          Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 13:32 -0400
            Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Owen Scharff <nehh@fenohw.hp> - 2018-08-06 18:05 +0000
              Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 17:15 -0400
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Owen Scharff <nehh@fenohw.hn> - 2018-08-07 09:21 +0000
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Volney <volney@volney.invalid> - 2018-08-07 08:36 -0400
    Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-05 12:17 -0400
      Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-05 18:57 +0000
        Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-05 13:31 -0700
          Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-05 20:40 +0000
            Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-05 16:19 -0700
              Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-08-06 04:29 +0000
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 13:55 +0000
            Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 13:43 -0400
              Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 18:17 +0000
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 17:25 -0400
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 22:43 +0000
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-07 04:42 -0400
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-07 13:45 +0000
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-07 12:52 -0400
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-07 17:23 +0000
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-07 20:18 -0400
          Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-08-06 04:27 +0000
            Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 06:13 -0700
              Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 13:55 +0000
              Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-08-06 15:17 +0000
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 11:59 -0700
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 13:09 -0700
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-08-06 15:31 -0500
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 13:47 -0700
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-08-06 16:01 -0500
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 14:11 -0700
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-08-06 16:22 -0500
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 17:29 -0400
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-08-06 21:29 +0000
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 14:34 -0700
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-08-06 16:48 -0500
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-08-06 21:49 +0000
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-08-06 18:01 -0500
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-07 04:46 -0400
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-07 13:49 +0000
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-07 12:54 -0400
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-07 17:23 +0000
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-07 20:18 -0400
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-08 15:55 +0000
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-08 13:00 -0400
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-08-08 09:53 -0700
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-08 09:57 -0700
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-08 17:23 +0000
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-08 18:00 -0400
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-08 22:22 +0000
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-08 17:54 -0400
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-08-08 15:05 -0700
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-08 15:24 -0700
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-08 19:53 -0400
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-08-09 11:49 -0500
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-09 18:27 -0400
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-09 22:47 +0000
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-09 19:11 -0400
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-10 15:08 +0000
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-10 12:30 -0400
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-10 16:43 +0000
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-08-10 15:05 -0700
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-10 18:30 -0400
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-10 23:05 +0000
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-11 03:12 -0400
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-11 03:15 -0700
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-11 13:55 +0000
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-08-13 10:25 -0700
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-08-10 06:52 -0700
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-08-10 09:36 -0500
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-08-07 01:58 +0000
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 21:45 -0700
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-08-07 09:48 -0700
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-08-07 17:29 +0000
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 21:29 +0000
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-08-07 09:46 -0700
          Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 06:44 -0700
          Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 13:41 -0400
        Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 13:39 -0400
          Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-08-06 19:22 -0500
            Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 18:14 -0700
              Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-07 01:49 +0000
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 18:55 -0700
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-07 04:54 -0400
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-08-06 22:17 -0500
      Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-08-05 18:41 -0500
        Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. poraty149@gmail.com - 2018-08-06 08:59 -0700
          Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 16:24 +0000
            Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. poraty149@gmail.com - 2018-08-06 11:20 -0700
      Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 06:40 -0700
        Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 14:27 +0000
    Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-08-05 22:50 -0500
      Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 13:51 -0400
        Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-08-06 13:08 -0500
  Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Double-A <double-a3@hush.com> - 2018-08-05 12:23 -0700
    Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-05 19:31 +0000
      Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Double-A <double-a3@hush.com> - 2018-08-05 13:09 -0700
  Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2018-08-07 11:40 +1000
    Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-07 01:49 +0000
    Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-07 04:53 -0400
      Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Owen Scharff <nehh@fenohw.hn> - 2018-08-07 10:02 +0000
        Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-08-07 08:55 -0500
          Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-07 13:05 -0400
      Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-08-07 11:24 -0500
        Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-07 16:56 +0000
        Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-07 20:04 -0400
          Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-08-08 09:05 +0200
          Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2018-08-08 17:14 +1000
            Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-08 10:34 -0400
              Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-08 07:45 -0700
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-08 11:18 -0400
              Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-08-08 20:16 +0200
              Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2018-08-09 09:15 +1000
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-08 19:57 -0400
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2018-08-09 11:48 +1000
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-09 11:02 -0400
          Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-08-08 11:08 -0500
            Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-08 13:23 -0400
              Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-08-08 20:26 +0200
              Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-08-08 14:52 -0700
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-08 20:06 -0400
              Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-08-09 10:15 -0500
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-09 12:48 -0400
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-08-11 23:37 -0500
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Owen Scharff <nehh@fenvhw.ho> - 2018-08-12 11:31 +0000
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Owen Scharff <nehh@fenvhw.ho> - 2018-08-12 11:34 +0000
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-12 10:09 -0400
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-08-12 21:29 -0500
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Lovu Biftek <ufeli@fupuks.cl> - 2018-08-13 10:53 +0000
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-13 11:41 -0400
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-08-15 18:56 -0500
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-15 17:24 -0700
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-16 14:32 +0000
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-16 13:22 -0400
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-16 18:59 +0000
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-16 20:19 -0400
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-17 00:59 +0000
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-17 06:33 -0400
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-17 11:33 +0000
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-17 08:53 -0700
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-17 16:00 +0000
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-17 09:19 -0700
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-17 16:46 +0000
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-17 10:30 -0700
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-17 20:54 +0000
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-17 14:13 -0400
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-17 13:43 -0400
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-17 20:54 +0000
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-17 13:37 -0400
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-17 10:52 -0700
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-17 20:54 +0000
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-08-17 11:17 -0700
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-17 12:09 -0700
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-17 20:58 +0000
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-17 15:19 -0700
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-17 22:33 +0000
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-17 15:55 -0700
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-18 14:11 +0000
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-18 07:22 -0700
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-18 15:56 +0000
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-18 11:03 -0700
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-18 18:32 +0000
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-18 14:21 -0700
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-19 00:15 +0000
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-18 17:35 -0700
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-19 02:38 +0000
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-19 02:54 -0700
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-18 19:15 -0700
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-19 14:01 +0000
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-08-19 22:20 -0500
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-20 14:29 -0400
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-18 16:31 -0400
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-08-18 15:44 -0700
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-18 21:57 -0400
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-08-19 20:02 -0700
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-20 14:21 -0400
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-19 00:15 +0000
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-18 22:03 -0400
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-08-19 20:05 -0700
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-20 14:39 +0000
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-20 14:22 -0400
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-20 19:44 +0000
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-18 16:30 -0400
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-19 00:15 +0000
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-18 22:01 -0400
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-19 14:01 +0000
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-19 12:39 -0400
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-19 18:35 +0000
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-20 14:12 -0400
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-20 19:44 +0000
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-08-19 20:15 -0700
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-20 05:43 -0700
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-08-20 07:23 -0700
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-20 14:25 -0400
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-08-18 15:38 -0700
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-18 16:06 -0700
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-19 02:38 +0000
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-17 20:54 +0000
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-08-16 15:24 -0700
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-16 20:01 -0400
          Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-08 23:55 +0000
            Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-09 10:58 -0400
              Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-09 15:26 +0000
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-09 12:36 -0400
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-09 17:53 +0000
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-09 12:21 -0700
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-09 21:49 +0000
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-09 19:28 -0400
                Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-10 15:08 +0000
              Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-08-10 07:01 -0700
        Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. Owen Scharff <nehh@fenohw.hn> - 2018-08-08 11:12 +0000
          Re: Rub Odd's nose in it. john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-08 05:44 -0700

csiph-web