Re: SuperDeterminism is a better religion.

From	vallor <vallor@cultnix.org>
Newsgroups	comp.os.linux.advocacy, sci.physics, alt.checkmate
Subject	Re: SuperDeterminism is a better religion.
Date	2018-06-20 03:21 +0000
Message-ID	<fotvi6FrrctU1@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References	(2 earlier) <Jeff-Relf.Me@Jun.19--8.53am.Seattle.2018> <fosniaFkpalU1@mid.individual.net> <0ZdWC.286418$Hv4.283570@fx39.iad> <rY2dnfJ4nPcQ8rTGnZ2dnUU7-WXNnZ2d@giganews.com> <Jeff-Relf.Me@Jun.19--6.14pm.Seattle.2018>

Cross-posted to 3 groups.

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On Tue, 19 Jun 2018 18:14:26 -0700, Jeff-Relf.Me wrote:

>> whatever happened to slavery ?
> 
> It's alive and well, thank you very much.
> 
> General Relativity's four dimensional TimeScape is static, eternal,
> perfectly causal... it is, at once, everything _and_ nothing.
> All of history, every lesson ever, every advance, tells me:
> 
>   Randomness is ignorance, nothing more.
> 
> Everyone, from the serial killer to his executer, slave and master,
> are best viewed under this light (SuperDeterminism),
> instead of assuming free will, à la Christianity.
> 
> SuperDeterminism is a better religion;
> "God" is nature, nothing more, nothing less.
> 
> We simply prefer the LeastBad "option",
> and we can't change what we prefer.
> 
> The only difference between us and "stars/cars/monkeys"
> is how and what we consume... our nitch.

It is you, gentle sir, who is "appealing to the Pope" with your 
"religion".  (And indeed, that is exactly what you posit.)

Quote:
 _ _ _ _ _ _ _
The implications of superdeterminism, if it is true, would bring into 
question the value of science itself by destroying falsifiability, as 
Anton Zeilinger has commented:

[W]e always implicitly assume the freedom of the experimentalist... This 
fundamental assumption is essential to doing science. If this were not 
true, then, I suggest, it would make no sense at all to ask nature 
questions in an experiment, since then nature could determine what our 
questions are, and that could guide our questions such that we arrive at 
a false picture of nature.[5]
 _ _ _ _ _ _ _

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superdeterminism

5.  A. Zeilinger, Dance of the Photons, Farrar, Straus and Giroux, New 
York, 2010, p. 266. Abner Shimony, Michael Horne and John Clauser made a 
similar comment in replying to John Bell in their discussions in the 
Epistemological Letters: "In any scientific experiment in which two or 
more variables are supposed to be randomly selected, one can always 
conjecture that some factor in the overlap of the backward light cones 
has controlled the presumably random choices. But, we maintain, 
skepticism of this sort will essentially dismiss all results of 
scientific experimentation. Unless we proceed under the assumption that 
hidden conspiracies of this sort do not occur, we have abandoned in 
advance the whole enterprise of discovering the laws of nature by 
experimentation." (Shimony A, Horne M A and Clauser J F, "Comment on the 
theory of local beables", Epistemological Letters, 13 1 (1976), as quoted 
in Jan-Åke Larsson, "Loopholes in Bell inequality tests of local 
realism", J. Phys. A: Math. Theor. 47 (2014))

-- 
-v

Thread

Does this sound familiar ? Jeff-Relf.Me  @. - 2018-06-19 04:48 -0700
  Re: Does this sound familiar ? Your Friendly Neighbourhood Puppy Whistle Holder Emeritus 🐶笛 <root@127.0.0.1> - 2018-06-19 09:19 -0500
    Karl Marx lived it. Jeff-Relf.Me  @. - 2018-06-19 08:08 -0700
      Re: Karl Marx lived it. Your Friendly Neighbourhood Puppy Whistle Holder Emeritus 🐶笛 <root@127.0.0.1> - 2018-06-19 10:23 -0500
        Marx lied. Jeff-Relf.Me  @. - 2018-06-19 08:53 -0700
          Re: Marx lied. Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-06-19 08:59 -0700
            Re: Marx lied. Your Friendly Neighbourhood Puppy Whistle Holder Emeritus 🐶笛 <root@127.0.0.1> - 2018-06-19 11:04 -0500
              Re: Marx lied. Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-06-19 09:11 -0700
                Re: Marx lied. Your Friendly Neighbourhood Puppy Whistle Holder Emeritus 🐶笛 <root@127.0.0.1> - 2018-06-19 11:24 -0500
                Re: Marx lied. chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2018-06-19 11:55 -0500
                Re: Marx lied. benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2018-06-19 17:06 -0400
                Re: Marx lied. chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2018-06-20 07:50 -0500
                Re: Marx lied. vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2018-06-21 03:11 +0000
                Somali pirates tax ships, as (para)governments do. Jeff-Relf.Me  @. - 2018-06-21 11:36 -0700
                Re: Somali pirates tax ships, as (para)governments do. benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2018-06-21 17:33 -0400
                It's my fault. Jeff-Relf.Me  @. - 2018-06-21 15:20 -0700
                Re: It's my fault. onion@anon.invalid (Mr On!on) - 2018-06-21 23:29 +0100
                Everything decays, even gravity; hence the arrow of time. Jeff-Relf.Me  @. - 2018-06-21 16:05 -0700
                Re: Everything decays, even gravity; hence the arrow of time. onion@anon.invalid (Mr On!on) - 2018-06-22 00:25 +0100
                The first goal of ThermoDynamics. Jeff-Relf.Me  @. - 2018-06-21 22:34 -0700
                Re: The first goal of ThermoDynamics. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-06-22 13:50 +0000
                Re: The first goal of ThermoDynamics. onion@anon.invalid (Mr On!on) - 2018-06-22 20:24 +0100
                Re: The first goal of ThermoDynamics. % <persent@gmail.com> - 2018-06-22 12:39 -0700
                Re: The first goal of ThermoDynamics. onion@anon.invalid (Mr On!on) - 2018-06-22 20:55 +0100
                Re: The first goal of ThermoDynamics. % <persent@gmail.com> - 2018-06-22 13:01 -0700
                Re: The first goal of ThermoDynamics. onion@anon.invalid (Mr On!on) - 2018-06-22 21:15 +0100
                Re: The first goal of ThermoDynamics. % <persent@gmail.com> - 2018-06-22 13:18 -0700
                Re: The first goal of ThermoDynamics. onion@anon.invalid (Mr On!on) - 2018-06-22 21:31 +0100
                Re: The first goal of ThermoDynamics. vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2018-06-22 22:13 +0000
                Re: The first goal of ThermoDynamics. Checkmate <ricksabian1@gmail.com> - 2018-06-22 15:25 -0700
                Re: The first goal of ThermoDynamics. vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2018-06-22 22:30 +0000
                Re: The first goal of ThermoDynamics. onion@anon.invalid (Mr On!on) - 2018-06-22 23:38 +0100
                Re: The first goal of ThermoDynamics. benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2018-06-22 21:01 -0400
                Re: The first goal of ThermoDynamics. onion@anon.invalid (Mr On!on) - 2018-06-22 23:33 +0100
                Re: The first goal of ThermoDynamics. benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2018-06-22 20:59 -0400
                Re: It's my fault. benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2018-06-21 21:24 -0400
                Re: It's my fault. benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2018-06-21 21:23 -0400
                Re: Marx lied. benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2018-06-19 16:54 -0400
                Re: Marx lied. Your Friendly Neighbourhood Puppy Whistle Holder Emeritus 🐶笛 <root@127.0.0.1> - 2018-06-19 16:04 -0500
                Re: Marx lied. benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2018-06-19 18:31 -0400
                Re: Marx lied. Your Friendly Neighbourhood Puppy Whistle Holder Emeritus 🐶笛 <root@127.0.0.1> - 2018-06-19 19:13 -0500
                Re: Marx lied. benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2018-06-19 16:52 -0400
              Marxism didn't work for Marx himself, nor anyone else. Jeff-Relf.Me  @. - 2018-06-19 17:36 -0700
                Re: Marxism didn't work for Marx himself, nor anyone else. Your Friendly Neighbourhood Puppy Whistle Holder Emeritus 🐶笛 <root@127.0.0.1> - 2018-06-19 20:07 -0500
            Re: Marx lied. benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2018-06-19 16:46 -0400
              Re: Marx lied. Your Friendly Neighbourhood Puppy Whistle Holder Emeritus 🐶笛 <root@127.0.0.1> - 2018-06-19 16:03 -0500
                SuperDeterminism is a better religion. Jeff-Relf.Me  @. - 2018-06-19 18:14 -0700
                Re: SuperDeterminism is a better religion. vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2018-06-20 03:21 +0000
                Does "Bell's Inequality" require perfect knowledge ? Jeff-Relf.Me  @. - 2018-06-19 23:35 -0700
                Re: Does "Bell's Inequality" require perfect knowledge ? benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2018-06-20 12:17 -0400
                Re: Does "Bell's Inequality" require perfect knowledge ? Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-06-20 21:13 -0700
                Re: SuperDeterminism is a better religion. benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2018-06-20 12:14 -0400
              Re: Marx lied. Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-06-19 14:15 -0700
                Re: Marx lied. benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2018-06-19 18:17 -0400
                Re: Marx lied. Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-06-19 15:29 -0700
          Re: Marx lied. Your Friendly Neighbourhood Puppy Whistle Holder Emeritus 🐶笛 <root@127.0.0.1> - 2018-06-19 11:00 -0500
            Not one of Karl Marx's 8 kids did well. Jeff-Relf.Me  @. - 2018-06-19 17:28 -0700
              Re: Not one of Karl Marx's 8 kids did well. Your Friendly Neighbourhood Puppy Whistle Holder Emeritus 🐶笛 <root@127.0.0.1> - 2018-06-19 19:34 -0500
                When sane, you prefer the LeastBad "option", not perfection. Jeff-Relf.Me  @. - 2018-06-20 01:40 -0700
                Re: When sane, you prefer the LeastBad "option", not perfection. Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-06-20 01:48 -0700
        Re: Karl Marx lived it. benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2018-06-19 11:58 -0400
          Re: Karl Marx lived it. Your Friendly Neighbourhood Puppy Whistle Holder Emeritus 🐶笛 <root@127.0.0.1> - 2018-06-19 11:09 -0500
  Re: Does this sound familiar ? benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2018-06-19 11:26 -0400
  Re: Does this sound familiar ? Double-A <double-a3@hush.com> - 2018-06-19 14:12 -0700
    "Marxism" is a euphemism for "Feudalism". Jeff-Relf.Me  @. - 2018-06-19 18:24 -0700
      Re: "Marxism" is a euphemism for "Feudalism". Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-06-20 01:32 -0700

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