Re: How Does an Electric Motor Know How Much Electricity Is Needed

From	jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com
Newsgroups	sci.physics
Subject	Re: How Does an Electric Motor Know How Much Electricity Is Needed
Date	2016-04-27 16:44 +0000
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<cs67vc-vnr.ln1@mail.specsol.com> (permalink)
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benj <nobodyxx@gmail> wrote:
> On 04/27/2016 01:41 AM, Sylvia Else wrote:
>> On 27/04/2016 3:25 PM, benj wrote:
>>> On 04/26/2016 11:49 PM, Sylvia Else wrote:
>>>> On 27/04/2016 1:32 PM, Wally W. wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 27 Apr 2016 13:14:03 +1000, Sylvia Else wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 27/04/2016 12:58 PM, Wally W. wrote:
>>>>>>> On Wed, 27 Apr 2016 11:33:17 +1000, Sylvia Else wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 25/04/2016 2:39 AM, reber g=emc^2 wrote:
>>>>>>>>> It even pulls in more electrons when doing moire work
>>>>>>>>> automatically.WOW  I can see why the thickness of a wire obeys the
>>>>>>>>> inverse square law.  I love electric motors,and I'm big on electron
>>>>>>>>> flow. Trebert
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> With increasing load, it slows down. As it does, the current has to
>>>>>>>> increase so that the back EMF at the reduced speed still equals the
>>>>>>>> applied voltage.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's all describable, but it is still akin to magic.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It doesn't seem akin to magic to me.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sylvia.
>>>>>
>>>>> Lessee ... the generator in the next town knows just how many
>>>>> electrons it should send to my motor.
>>>>
>>>> Of course it doesn't. The electrons in the wire respond to the local
>>>> voltage gradient in the wire. Increasing the load on your motor slows it
>>>> down, and the reduced back EMF increases the voltage gradient at the
>>>> input to the motor. So more electrons at that point. That changes the
>>>> voltage gradient a bit upstream, and more electrons flow there. The
>>>> change propagates along the wire, at a good fraction of the speed of
>>>> light, until it eventually reaches the generator, which responds
>>>> accordingly.
>>>>
>>>> With an AC system, everything's cycling 50 or 60 times a second anyway,
>>>> and the effect of the motor load is superimposed on that.
>>>>
>>>> Sylvia.
>>>
>>> Nice theory Sylvia, but generally speaking motors don't slow down when
>>> delivering power. So how does your theory work with synchronous motors?
>>
>> In a synchronous motor, the current and the power factor, are a function
>> of the angle between the rotor and the rotating field. When you load a
>> synchronous motor there is indeed a temporary reduction in speed while
>> the angle increases, which leads to an increase in current and power
>> factor. The increased current, coupled with the angle, cause in increase
>> in torque, which prevents further increase in the angle, and the speed
>> returns to what it was originally.
>>
>> Again, nothing magical, just a straight forward application of
>> electromagnetism.
>>
>> Sylvia.
> 
> A change of angle isn't "slowing down" so now you've got a second theory 
> as to how motors know how much electricity to ask for!  So your first 
> claim of slowing and "back EMF reduction" clearly is suddenly different! 
> You can't have two different theories to explain the same events! That's 
> no better than saying it's magic.
 
Of course it is, otherwise how would the angle change?

 

-- 
Jim Pennino

Thread

How Does an Electric Motor Know How Much Electricity Is Needed "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2016-04-24 09:39 -0700
  How Does an Electric Motor Know How Much Electricity Is Needed HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-24 09:56 -0700
    Re: How Does an Electric Motor Know How Much Electricity Is Needed benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-24 23:52 -0400
      Re: How Does an Electric Motor Know How Much Electricity Is Needed "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 11:49 -0700
        Re: How Does an Electric Motor Know How Much Electricity Is Needed Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 14:37 -0500
          Re: How Does an Electric Motor Know How Much Electricity Is Needed Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-04-25 21:14 -0500
  Re: How Does an Electric Motor Know How Much Electricity Is Needed Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-04-24 12:17 -0500
  Re: How Does an Electric Motor Know How Much Electricity Is Needed Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-04-24 14:14 -0500
  Re: How Does an Electric Motor Know How Much Electricity Is Needed Double-A <double-a3@hush.com> - 2016-04-24 13:41 -0700
    Re: How Does an Electric Motor Know How Much Electricity Is Needed "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2016-04-24 16:19 -0700
      Re: How Does an Electric Motor Know How Much Electricity Is Needed HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-24 16:45 -0700
      Re: How Does an Electric Motor Know How Much Electricity Is Needed "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 11:45 -0700
        Re: How Does an Electric Motor Know How Much Electricity Is Needed Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 14:25 -0500
          Re: How Does an Electric Motor Know How Much Electricity Is Needed jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-25 19:39 +0000
          Re: How Does an Electric Motor Know How Much Electricity Is Needed Double-A <double-a3@hush.com> - 2016-04-25 17:08 -0700
            Re: How Does an Electric Motor Know How Much Electricity Is Needed Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-04-25 19:16 -0500
              Re: How Does an Electric Motor Know How Much Electricity Is Needed jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-26 00:41 +0000
              Re: How Does an Electric Motor Know How Much Electricity Is Needed Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2016-04-25 23:05 -0400
                Re: How Does an Electric Motor Know How Much Electricity Is Needed benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-26 03:11 -0400
                Re: How Does an Electric Motor Know How Much Electricity Is Needed Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-04-26 17:29 -0500
                Re: How Does an Electric Motor Know How Much Electricity Is Needed Double-A <double-a3@hush.com> - 2016-04-26 13:11 -0700
                Re: How Does an Electric Motor Know How Much Electricity Is Needed Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-04-26 19:03 -0500
          Re: How Does an Electric Motor Know How Much Electricity Is Needed benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-25 21:59 -0400
  Re: How Does an Electric Motor Know How Much Electricity Is Needed Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-04-27 11:33 +1000
    Re: How Does an Electric Motor Know How Much Electricity Is Needed Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2016-04-26 22:58 -0400
      Re: How Does an Electric Motor Know How Much Electricity Is Needed Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-04-27 13:14 +1000
        Re: How Does an Electric Motor Know How Much Electricity Is Needed Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2016-04-26 23:32 -0400
          Re: How Does an Electric Motor Know How Much Electricity Is Needed Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-04-27 13:49 +1000
            Re: How Does an Electric Motor Know How Much Electricity Is Needed Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2016-04-26 23:53 -0400
              Re: How Does an Electric Motor Know How Much Electricity Is Needed Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2016-04-27 00:06 -0400
            Re: How Does an Electric Motor Know How Much Electricity Is Needed benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-27 01:25 -0400
              Re: How Does an Electric Motor Know How Much Electricity Is Needed Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-04-27 15:41 +1000
                Re: How Does an Electric Motor Know How Much Electricity Is Needed Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2016-04-27 07:06 -0400
                Re: How Does an Electric Motor Know How Much Electricity Is Needed edprochak@gmail.com - 2016-04-27 05:31 -0700
                Re: How Does an Electric Motor Know How Much Electricity Is Needed Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2016-04-27 09:21 -0400
                Re: How Does an Electric Motor Know How Much Electricity Is Needed edprochak@gmail.com - 2016-04-27 11:06 -0700
                Re: How Does an Electric Motor Know How Much Electricity Is Needed benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-27 11:22 -0400
                Re: How Does an Electric Motor Know How Much Electricity Is Needed jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-27 16:44 +0000
                Re: How Does an Electric Motor Know How Much Electricity Is Needed "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2016-04-27 11:35 -0700
                Re: How Does an Electric Motor Know How Much Electricity Is Needed benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-27 18:44 -0400
                Re: How Does an Electric Motor Know How Much Electricity Is Needed Wally W. <ww84wa@aim.com> - 2016-04-27 22:16 -0400
                Re: How Does an Electric Motor Know How Much Electricity Is Needed benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-27 23:09 -0400
      Re: How Does an Electric Motor Know How Much Electricity Is Needed benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-26 23:34 -0400
  Re: How Does an Electric Motor Know How Much Electricity Is Needed "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2016-04-27 11:44 -0700
    Re: How Does an Electric Motor Know How Much Electricity Is Needed Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2016-04-27 15:45 -0500
      Re: How Does an Electric Motor Know How Much Electricity Is Needed Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-04-27 22:30 -0500
        Re: How Does an Electric Motor Know How Much Electricity Is Needed benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-28 00:38 -0400
    Re: How Does an Electric Motor Know How Much Electricity Is Needed benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-04-27 18:43 -0400
  Re: How Does an Electric Motor Know How Much Electricity Is Needed gyansorova@gmail.com - 2016-04-27 11:58 -0700

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