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Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #478377 > unrolled thread

t' = t

Started byKeith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com>
First post2018-11-29 15:27 +0000
Last post2018-12-09 12:33 -0800
Articles 20 on this page of 246 — 18 participants

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Contents

  t' = t Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-11-29 15:27 +0000
    Wacko Keith Stein at work "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-11-29 07:37 -0800
      Re t' = t Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-11-29 16:09 +0000
        Imbecile Keith Stein perseveres "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-11-29 08:33 -0800
          Re: t' = t Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-11-29 17:35 +0000
        Re: Re t' = t kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2018-12-02 14:29 -0800
    Re: t' = t Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2018-11-29 11:56 -0800
      Re: t' = t kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2018-11-30 09:32 -0800
        Re: t' = t Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-11-30 18:43 +0100
          Re: t' = t kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2018-12-01 06:45 -0800
            Re: t' = t Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-12-01 15:10 +0000
            Re: t' = t Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-12-02 15:41 +0100
              Re: t' = t Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-12-02 10:26 -0600
                Re: t' = t Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-12-03 04:25 +0100
                  Re: t' = t Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-03 07:13 +0000
                    Re: t' = t Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2018-12-03 05:59 -0800
                      Re: t' = t Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-03 14:29 +0000
                        Re: t' = t moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-12-03 14:42 +0000
                          Re: t' = t Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-03 15:42 +0000
                            Re: t' = t Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2018-12-03 08:29 -0800
                              Re: t' = t Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-03 16:50 +0000
                                Re: t' = t Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2018-12-03 12:58 -0800
                                  Re: t' = t Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-04 03:05 +0000
                                    Re: t' = t Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2018-12-03 19:39 -0800
                                      Re: t' = t Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-04 04:35 +0000
                                        Re: t' = t Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2018-12-03 20:51 -0800
                                        Cretin Keith Stein perseveres in inserting foot in mouth "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-12-03 22:03 -0800
                            Re: t' = t moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-12-03 16:32 +0000
                              Re: t' = t Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-03 17:12 +0000
                        Re: t' = t Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-12-03 15:32 +0000
                          Re: t' = t Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-03 15:45 +0000
                        Re: t' = t Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2018-12-03 08:01 -0800
                          Re: t' = t Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-03 16:23 +0000
                            Re: t' = t Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-12-03 17:43 +0000
                    Re: t' = t Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-12-03 13:28 -0600
                  Re: t' = t Mole Santiago <msb@awwnuvs.an> - 2018-12-03 16:43 +0000
        Re: t' = t Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-11-30 19:56 +0000
        Re: t' = t Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-11-30 22:46 +0000
          Re: t' = t Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-11-30 23:03 +0000
            Re: t' = t JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-11-30 15:20 -0800
              Re: t' = t Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-11-30 23:40 +0000
                Re: t' = t Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-01 10:15 +0000
                  Re: t' = t Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2018-12-01 04:53 -0800
                    Re: t' = t Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-01 16:51 +0000
                      Re: t' = t Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-12-01 18:28 +0000
                      Re: t' = t Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-12-01 10:34 -0800
                      Re: t' = t Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2018-12-01 11:20 -0800
                  Re: t' = t Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-12-01 04:53 -0800
                    Re: t' = t kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2018-12-01 07:21 -0800
                      Re: t' = t Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-12-01 15:43 +0000
                        Re: t' = t kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2018-12-01 21:35 -0800
                          Re: t' = t moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-12-02 17:31 +0000
                      Re: t' = t Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-12-02 16:24 +0100
                        Re: t' = t kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2018-12-02 08:36 -0800
                          Re: t' = t kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2018-12-02 12:45 -0800
                          Re: t' = t Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-12-02 21:52 +0100
                            Re: t' = t moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-12-02 22:17 +0000
                              Re: t' = t Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-12-03 01:39 +0100
                                Re: t' = t moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-12-03 01:12 +0000
                                  Re: t' = t Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-12-03 03:53 +0100
                    Re: t' = t "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-12-04 11:07 -0800
                  Re: t' = t Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-12-01 15:05 +0000
                    Re: t' = t Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-01 17:46 +0000
                      Re: t' = t Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-12-01 18:28 +0000
                  Re: t' = t kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2018-12-01 07:45 -0800
                    Re: t' = t Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-12-01 18:30 +0100
                      Re: t' = t Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-12-01 16:06 -0600
                        Re: t' = t Mole Santiago <msb@awwnuvs.an> - 2018-12-01 22:34 +0000
                        Re: t' = t Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-12-02 12:13 +0100
                          Re: t' = t Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-12-03 13:26 -0600
                            Re: t' = t Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-12-03 21:57 +0100
                            Re: t' = t Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-12-03 22:41 +0100
                    Re: t' = t Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-01 17:49 +0000
                  Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (was Re: t' = t) Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-12-02 09:46 -0600
                    Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (was Re: t' = t) yeurohenry@gmail.com - 2018-12-02 09:29 -0800
                      Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (was Re: t' = t) Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-12-02 13:46 -0600
                        Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (was Re: t' = t) yeurohenry@gmail.com - 2018-12-02 12:59 -0800
                          Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (was Re: t' = t) Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-12-03 13:18 -0600
                            Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (was Re: t' = t) "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-12-03 11:27 -0800
                              Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (was Re: t' = t) Mole Santiago <msb@awwnuvs.an> - 2018-12-04 15:24 +0000
                              Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (was Re: t' = t) Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-12-04 21:33 -0600
                                Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (was Re: t' = t) "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-12-04 19:59 -0800
                                Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (was Re: t' = t) "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-12-04 20:01 -0800
                            Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (was Re: t' = t) yeurohenry@gmail.com - 2018-12-03 14:20 -0800
                              Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (was Re: t' = t) Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-12-04 12:27 -0600
                                Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (was Re: t' = t) yeurohenry@gmail.com - 2018-12-04 23:44 -0800
                                  Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (was Re: t' = t) Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-12-05 17:51 -0600
                                    Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (was Re: t' = t) yeurohenry@gmail.com - 2018-12-05 22:25 -0800
                                      Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (was Re: t' = t) Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-12-06 18:20 +0100
                                      Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (reboot) Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-12-07 12:11 -0600
                                        Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (reboot) yeurohenry@gmail.com - 2018-12-07 12:09 -0800
                                          Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (reboot) JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-12-07 12:49 -0800
                                            Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (reboot) alsor@interia.pl - 2018-12-07 13:33 -0800
                                            Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (reboot) yeurohenry@gmail.com - 2018-12-07 14:58 -0800
                                              Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (reboot) JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-12-07 15:56 -0800
                                              Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (reboot) Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-12-08 00:15 -0600
                                          Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (reboot) Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-12-08 00:21 -0600
                                            Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (reboot) yeurohenry@gmail.com - 2018-12-08 00:37 -0800
                                              Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (reboot) Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-12-13 21:16 -0600
                                                Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (reboot) JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-12-13 19:39 -0800
                                                Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (reboot) yeurohenry@gmail.com - 2018-12-13 22:18 -0800
                                                  Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (reboot) Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-12-14 10:58 -0600
                                                    Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (reboot) "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-12-14 09:30 -0800
                                                      Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (reboot) Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-12-14 21:30 -0600
                                                        Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (reboot) "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-12-14 21:32 -0800
                                                          Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (reboot) Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-12-15 10:59 -0600
                                                            Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (reboot) "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-12-15 09:22 -0800
                                                            Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (reboot) Scott Richman <sunn@idhnonow.iv> - 2018-12-15 18:35 +0000
                                                            Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (reboot) yeurohenry@gmail.com - 2018-12-15 12:15 -0800
                                                              Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (reboot) Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-12-15 16:45 -0600
                                                                Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (reboot) yeurohenry@gmail.com - 2018-12-15 16:21 -0800
                                                                  Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (reboot) JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-12-15 23:08 -0800
                                                                    Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (reboot) yeurohenry@gmail.com - 2018-12-16 11:01 -0800
                                                    Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (reboot) yeurohenry@gmail.com - 2018-12-14 10:20 -0800
                                                      Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (reboot) Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-12-14 22:52 -0600
                                                        Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (reboot) yeurohenry@gmail.com - 2018-12-14 23:51 -0800
                                                          Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (conclusion of the reboot) Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-12-15 17:20 -0600
                                                            Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (conclusion of the reboot) yeurohenry@gmail.com - 2018-12-15 17:25 -0800
                                                              Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (conclusion of the reboot) JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-12-15 23:14 -0800
                                                                Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (conclusion of the reboot) moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-12-16 13:47 +0000
                                                                  Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (conclusion of the reboot) Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-12-16 09:11 -0600
                                                                    Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (conclusion of the reboot) moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-12-16 15:28 +0000
                                                              Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (conclusion of the reboot) Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-12-16 09:21 -0600
                                                                Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (conclusion of the reboot) yeurohenry@gmail.com - 2018-12-16 12:29 -0800
                                                Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (reboot) Scott Richman <sunn@idhnonow.iv> - 2018-12-14 09:46 +0000
                                        Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (reboot) "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-12-07 22:40 -0800
                                          Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (side discussion) Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-12-08 09:56 -0600
                                            Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (side discussion) "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-12-08 08:16 -0800
                                              Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (side discussion) Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-12-12 19:22 -0600
                                                Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (side discussion) "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-12-13 22:09 -0800
                                                  Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (side discussion) Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-12-14 11:58 -0600
                                                    Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (side discussion) Scott Richman <sunn@idhnonow.iv> - 2018-12-14 18:10 +0000
                                                    Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (side discussion) "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-12-14 10:40 -0800
                                                      Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (side discussion) Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-12-14 22:25 -0600
                                        Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (reboot) yeurohenry@gmail.com - 2018-12-08 11:13 -0800
                                          Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (reboot) Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-12-08 22:01 +0100
                                            Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (reboot) yeurohenry@gmail.com - 2018-12-08 13:35 -0800
                                              Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (reboot) Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-12-08 23:26 +0100
                                                Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (reboot) yeurohenry@gmail.com - 2018-12-08 17:17 -0800
                                                  Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (reboot) Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-12-09 11:52 +0100
                                                    Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (reboot) yeurohenry@gmail.com - 2018-12-09 10:54 -0800
                                                      Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (reboot) Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-12-09 21:06 +0100
                                                        Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (reboot) yeurohenry@gmail.com - 2018-12-09 13:23 -0800
                                    Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (was Re: t' = t) kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2018-12-06 08:24 -0800
                                      Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (was Re: t' = t) Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-12-07 12:16 -0600
                                        Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (reboot) moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-12-08 21:56 +0000
                                          Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (reboot) yeurohenry@gmail.com - 2018-12-08 15:01 -0800
                                            Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (reboot) Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2018-12-08 15:14 -0800
                                              Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (reboot) yeurohenry@gmail.com - 2018-12-08 16:46 -0800
                                                Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (reboot) Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2018-12-08 19:54 -0800
                                                  Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (reboot) yeurohenry@gmail.com - 2018-12-08 21:12 -0800
                                                    Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (reboot) Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2018-12-09 05:37 -0800
                                                      Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (reboot) yeurohenry@gmail.com - 2018-12-09 12:29 -0800
                    Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (was Re: t' = t) moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-12-02 17:34 +0000
                      Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (was Re: t' = t) Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-12-02 12:33 -0600
                        Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (was Re: t' = t) Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-12-02 21:56 +0100
                          Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (was Re: t' = t) Mole Santiago <msb@awwnuvs.an> - 2018-12-03 17:04 +0000
                    Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (was Re: t' = t) kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2018-12-02 14:06 -0800
                      Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (was Re: t' = t) Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-12-02 16:29 -0600
                        Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (was Re: t' = t) moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-12-02 22:51 +0000
                          Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (was Re: t' = t) Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-12-02 22:25 -0600
                            Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (was Re: t' = t) Mole Santiago <msb@awwnuvs.an> - 2018-12-03 22:01 +0000
                              Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (was Re: t' = t) Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-12-04 12:28 -0600
                        Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (was Re: t' = t) yeurohenry@gmail.com - 2018-12-02 15:19 -0800
                          Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (was Re: t' = t) Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-12-03 11:30 -0600
                            Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (was Re: t' = t) yeurohenry@gmail.com - 2018-12-03 11:14 -0800
                              Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (was Re: t' = t) Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-12-04 21:09 -0600
                        Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (was Re: t' = t) kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2018-12-03 07:37 -0800
                          Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (was Re: t' = t) Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-12-03 17:07 +0000
                          Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (was Re: t' = t) Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-12-03 11:36 -0600
                            Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (was Re: t' = t) kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2018-12-03 12:41 -0800
                              Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (was Re: t' = t) Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-12-04 12:34 -0600
                                Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (was Re: t' = t) kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2018-12-05 07:25 -0800
                                  Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (was Re: t' = t) Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-12-07 00:46 +0100
                      Re: Measuring the Relativity of Simultaneity (was Re: t' = t) Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-12-03 02:52 +0000
    Re: t' = t Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2018-11-30 10:09 +1100
      Re: t' = t Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-11-30 04:14 +0000
        Re: t' = t Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2018-12-01 10:20 +1100
          Re: t' = t Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-01 05:31 +0000
            Re: t' = t Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2018-12-02 08:03 +1100
              Re: t' = t Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-01 22:10 +0000
                Re: t' = t Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2018-12-01 14:33 -0800
                Re: t' = t Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2018-12-02 09:50 +1100
                  Re: t' = t Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-03 00:55 +0000
                    Re: t' = t yeurohenry@gmail.com - 2018-12-02 18:08 -0800
                      Re: t' = t Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-03 04:38 +0000
                        Re: t' = t yeurohenry@gmail.com - 2018-12-02 22:38 -0800
                          Re: t' = t Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-03 07:58 +0000
                            Re: t' = t yeurohenry@gmail.com - 2018-12-03 08:37 -0800
                              Re: t' = t Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-03 18:22 +0000
                                Re: t' = t yeurohenry@gmail.com - 2018-12-03 12:37 -0800
                    Re: t' = t Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-12-03 02:52 +0000
                      haRe: t' = t Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-03 04:03 +0000
                        Re: haRe: t' = t Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2018-12-02 21:00 -0800
                    Re: t' = t Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2018-12-03 16:23 +1100
                    Re: t' = t Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2018-12-04 22:58 +1100
                      Re: t' = t Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2018-12-04 04:23 -0800
                        Re: t' = t Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-04 13:56 +0000
                          Keith Stein, piece of shit "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-12-04 07:02 -0800
                            Re: Dono Don't Know Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-04 16:25 +0000
                              Keith Stein, the village idiot "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-12-04 08:35 -0800
                                Re: Keith Stein, the village idiot Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-04 18:14 +0000
                          Re: t' = t Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2018-12-04 07:14 -0800
                          Re: t' = t Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-12-04 16:50 +0000
                            Re: t' = t Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-04 18:27 +0000
                              Re: t' = t Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-12-04 18:37 +0000
                          Re: t' = t Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2018-12-05 10:58 +1100
    Re: t' = t JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-11-29 15:18 -0800
      Re: t' = t Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-11-30 04:12 +0000
        Re: t' = t JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-11-29 20:39 -0800
          Re: t' = t Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-11-30 06:43 +0000
        Keith Stein, an ignorant piece of shit "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-11-29 23:06 -0800
          Re: Keith Stein, an ignorant piece of shit Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-11-30 07:30 +0000
            Re: Keith Stein, an ignorant piece of shit "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-11-29 23:36 -0800
              Re: c' = c + v Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-11-30 10:02 +0000
                Re: c' = c + v Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2018-11-30 04:47 -0800
                  Re: c' = c + v Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-11-30 13:30 +0000
                    Re: c' = c + v Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2018-11-30 05:40 -0800
                      Re: c' = c + v Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-11-30 14:05 +0000
                        Re: c' = c + v Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-11-30 14:15 +0000
                          Re: c' = c + v Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-11-30 14:37 +0000
                            Re: c' = c + v Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-11-30 15:24 +0000
                              Re: c' = c + v Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-11-30 16:17 +0000
                                Re: c' = c + v Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-11-30 16:27 +0000
                                  Re: c' = c + v Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-11-30 17:57 +0000
                                    Re: c' = c + v Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-11-30 10:43 -0800
                                    Cretin Keith Stein on the internet "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-11-30 10:59 -0800
                                    Re: c' = c + v Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-11-30 19:56 +0000
                                  Re: c' = c + v mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-11-30 10:33 -0800
                          Re: c' = c + v mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-11-30 10:21 -0800
                            Re: t' = t Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-11-30 23:10 +0000
                        Re: c' = c + v Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2018-11-30 06:48 -0800
                          Re: c' = c + v Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-11-30 16:01 +0000
                            Re: c' = c + v Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-11-30 16:18 +0000
                              Re: c' = c + v Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-11-30 18:18 +0000
                                Re: c' = c + v Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-11-30 19:56 +0000
                                  Re: c' = c + v kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2018-12-01 07:38 -0800
                                Re: c' = c + v rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2018-11-30 13:34 -0800
                            Re: c' = c + v Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2018-11-30 11:07 -0800
      Re: t' = t alsor@interia.pl - 2018-12-04 10:45 -0800
        Re: t' = t Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-06 17:33 +0000
    Re: t' = t Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-12-06 17:06 +0000
    Re: t' = t carleto4157990662@gmail.com - 2018-12-07 13:41 -0800
      Re: t' = t alsor@interia.pl - 2018-12-07 14:04 -0800
    Re: t' = t carleto4157990662@gmail.com - 2018-12-09 10:51 -0800
      Re: t' = t JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-12-09 12:33 -0800

Page 3 of 13 — ← Prev page 1 2 [3] 4 5 … 13  Next page →


#478639

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2018-11-30 23:40 +0000
Message-ID<ptshqa$faj$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#478635
JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Friday, November 30, 2018 at 3:03:28 PM UTC-8, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>> Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 30/11/2018 17:32, kenseto wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ....forcing time and space to be flexible to get constant light speed is
>>>> a waste of a brain.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Very good Ken, and plenty of evidence of the wastage of brains
>>> caused by flexible time and space on this very thread eh!  So
>>> well said, Mr.Seto.
>>> 
>>> keith stein
>>> 
>> 
>> Well, see? When it comes to the data, you lose interest and revert to what
>> makes sense to you. 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Odd Bodkin — Maker of fine toys, tools, tables
> 
> Those guys are not interested in science on reality, it's all about
> feeding the ego.

Well, since he just applauded Wozniak, it’s clear that he isn’t interested
in a world that defies his common sense. 

> 
> --
> Jan
> 



-- 
Odd Bodkin — Maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#478660

FromKeith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com>
Date2018-12-01 10:15 +0000
Message-ID<kbtMD.306675$8m2.210167@fx28.am4>
In reply to#478639
>>  Odd Bodkin wrote:
>>> Keith Stein wrote:

 >>>> So what you are telling us Odd, is that is we resynchronize
 >>>> the clocks by assuming the speed of light is constant, then
 >>>> the clocks readings will indicate that the speed of light is
 >>>> constant.

 >>> No. What I am telling you that two clocks spaced by some distance
 >>> and synchronized in one reference frame are found EXPERIMENTALLY
 >>> to not be synchronized in a different reference frame.

 >> There has certainly never been, and indeed never will be, any
 >> experiment which shows that clocks which are synchronized in one
 >> frame are not synchronized in a different reference frame. What
 >> experiment of you thinking of Odd?

 >>> This means that it is not a matter of what assumption you make
 >>> to be consistent with other assumptions.  It is instead a matter
 >>> of OBSERVATIONAL FACT, which you seem not to want to consider.

 >> There is no such OBSERVATIONAL FACT.

 > Yes there is. This has been discussed before. And in fact Tom Roberts
 > has an elegant experimental proposal in play for a simple and direct,
 > rather than indirect, measurement.

Don't hold out on us Odd. Do tell us how Tom Roberts proposes to
demonstrate that clocks which are synchronized in the laboratory
frame are not synchronized in some other frame.

 >>> Why assume something that is negated by OBSERVATIONAL FACT?

 >> Tell us what OBSERVATIONAL FACT you are thinking of Odd.

So for the second time of asking, Odd, WHAT OBSERVATIONAL FACT
demonstrates that clocks which are synchronized in one frame,
are not synchronized in all frames ?

keith stein

-- 
Odd Bodkin — Maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#478667

FromGary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com>
Date2018-12-01 04:53 -0800
Message-ID<98c00fc4-88b8-4d2f-9434-7e2189685662@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#478660
On Saturday, December 1, 2018 at 3:15:47 AM UTC-7, Keith Stein wrote:
>
> So for the second time of asking, Odd, WHAT OBSERVATIONAL FACT
> demonstrates that clocks which are synchronized in one frame,
> are not synchronized in all frames ?
> 
> keith stein

Relativistic time dilation ensures that moving clocks will not remain
synchronized, and tests of this effect have been performed MANY times
over the past 80 years.  I'm surprised that you're not aware of these.

One type of test uses elementary particles as clocks.  For example,
muons at rest decay in 2.2 microseconds but when moving near the speed
of light, they take MUCH longer to decay:

https://www.nature.com/articles/268301a0

This experiment was reported over FORTY years ago.  The GPS provides
another example:

http://www.phys.lsu.edu/mog/mog9/node9.html

"At the time of launch of the first NTS-2 satellite (June 1977), which contained the first Cesium clock to be placed in orbit, there were some who doubted that relativistic effects were real. A frequency synthesizer was built into the satellite clock system so that after launch, if in fact the rate of the clock in its final orbit was that predicted by GR, then the synthesizer could be turned on bringing the clock to the coordinate rate necessary for operation. The atomic clock was first operated for about 20 days to measure its clock rate before turning on the synthesizer. The frequency measured during that interval was  parts in  faster than clocks on the ground; if left uncorrected this would have resulted in timing errors of about 38,000 nanoseconds per day." 

Forty years ago there were a few doubters like you, but they got their
heads handed to them by EVIDENCE.  It's AMAZING that ANYONE with a rational
mind could be a doubter today.

And the fact that gravitational time dilation has been measured in the lab
confirms that clocks do not remain in synchronization, so it is the final
nail in the coffin for Newton's t' = t:

https://www.nist.gov/news-events/news/2010/09/nist-pair-aluminum-atomic-clocks-reveal-einsteins-relativity-personal-scale

Only dishonest crackpots deny time dilation.

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#478692

FromKeith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com>
Date2018-12-01 16:51 +0000
Message-ID<WZyMD.99446$mL.72508@fx30.am4>
In reply to#478667
On 01/12/2018 12:53, Gary Harnagel wrote:
> On Saturday, December 1, 2018 at 3:15:47 AM UTC-7, Keith Stein wrote:

Thank you for your attempt to help Mr.Bodkin out Gary. Unfortunately
all your arguments and references are totally irrelevant. I rather
think you have lost sight of what the discussion was about,so let me
remind you eh!
_____________________________________________________________________
We were considering two clocks, BOTH of which remain stationary in
the laboratory throughout.

 >>                A                  B
 >>    light-----><--------L---------->         <--YOU v m/s
 >>               tA                  tBs
 >>
 >> Now walk towards B from the right at v m/s
 >> Note that in your frame of reference the point B is moving,
 >> and therefore the light travels an extra distance = v(tB-tA) m,
 >> which is the distance traveled by B as the light travels from A to B
 >>
 >> Speed of light relative to YOU = (L + v(tB-tA)) / (tB-tA) = c + v
_____________________________________________________________________

Consideration of this result led to the following discussion
between myself and Mr.Bodkin:-

 >>>> So what you are telling us Odd, is that is we resynchronize
 >>>> the clocks by assuming the speed of light is constant, then
 >>>> the clocks readings will indicate that the speed of light is
 >>>> constant.

 >>> No. What I am telling you that two clocks spaced by some distance
 >>> and synchronized in one reference frame are found EXPERIMENTALLY
 >>> to not be synchronized in a different reference frame.

 >> There has certainly never been, and indeed never will be, any
 >> experiment which shows that clocks which are synchronized in one
 >> frame are not synchronized in a different reference frame. What
 >> experiment of you thinking of Odd?

>> So for the second time of asking, Odd, WHAT OBSERVATIONAL FACT
>> demonstrates that clocks which are synchronized in one frame,
>> are not synchronized in all frames ?
>>
>> keith stein__________________________________________________________________


You should note Gary that even if clocks flown around the world
indicate a different time to the clocks at A and B which have remained
stationary in the laboratory, this would certainly NOT prove that
the clocks at A and B are not synchronized when you walk towards them.

Similarly nothing done by muons, or GPS clocks in orbit, can
prove that the two clocks which have both remained stationary in
the laboratory are out of sync. when you walk towards the clocks.

So Gary let us remind ourselves once more just what it was that
Odd was claiming:

 >>> No. What I am telling you that two clocks spaced by some distance
 >>> and synchronized in one reference frame are found EXPERIMENTALLY
 >>> to not be synchronized in a different reference frame.

So i suggest that we all wait patiently to see what experiment Mr.Bodkin 
offers to back up this claim eh!

keith stein

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#478700

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2018-12-01 18:28 +0000
Message-ID<ptujs3$1kk2$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#478692
Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 01/12/2018 12:53, Gary Harnagel wrote:
>> On Saturday, December 1, 2018 at 3:15:47 AM UTC-7, Keith Stein wrote:
> 
> Thank you for your attempt to help Mr.Bodkin out Gary. Unfortunately
> all your arguments and references are totally irrelevant. I rather
> think you have lost sight of what the discussion was about,so let me
> remind you eh!
> _____________________________________________________________________
> We were considering two clocks, BOTH of which remain stationary in
> the laboratory throughout.
> 
>>> A                  B
>>> light-----><--------L---------->         <--YOU v m/s
>>> tA                  tBs
>>> 
>>> Now walk towards B from the right at v m/s
>>> Note that in your frame of reference the point B is moving,
>>> and therefore the light travels an extra distance = v(tB-tA) m,
>>> which is the distance traveled by B as the light travels from A to B
>>> 
>>> Speed of light relative to YOU = (L + v(tB-tA)) / (tB-tA) = c + v
> _____________________________________________________________________
> 
> Consideration of this result led to the following discussion
> between myself and Mr.Bodkin:-
> 
>>>>> So what you are telling us Odd, is that is we resynchronize
>>>>> the clocks by assuming the speed of light is constant, then
>>>>> the clocks readings will indicate that the speed of light is
>>>>> constant.
> 
>>>> No. What I am telling you that two clocks spaced by some distance
>>>> and synchronized in one reference frame are found EXPERIMENTALLY
>>>> to not be synchronized in a different reference frame.
> 
>>> There has certainly never been, and indeed never will be, any
>>> experiment which shows that clocks which are synchronized in one
>>> frame are not synchronized in a different reference frame. What
>>> experiment of you thinking of Odd?
> 
>>> So for the second time of asking, Odd, WHAT OBSERVATIONAL FACT
>>> demonstrates that clocks which are synchronized in one frame,
>>> are not synchronized in all frames ?
>>> 
>>> keith stein__________________________________________________________________
> 
> 
> You should note Gary that even if clocks flown around the world
> indicate a different time to the clocks at A and B which have remained
> stationary in the laboratory, this would certainly NOT prove that
> the clocks at A and B are not synchronized when you walk towards them.
> 
> Similarly nothing done by muons, or GPS clocks in orbit, can
> prove that the two clocks which have both remained stationary in
> the laboratory are out of sync. when you walk towards the clocks.
> 
> So Gary let us remind ourselves once more just what it was that
> Odd was claiming:
> 
>>>> No. What I am telling you that two clocks spaced by some distance
>>>> and synchronized in one reference frame are found EXPERIMENTALLY
>>>> to not be synchronized in a different reference frame.
> 
> So i suggest that we all wait patiently to see what experiment Mr.Bodkin 
> offers to back up this claim eh!

Already done. 
Terrell rotation of electron bunches etc. 

> 
> keith stein
> 
> 
> 



-- 
Odd Bodkin -- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#478702

FromPaparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl>
Date2018-12-01 10:34 -0800
Message-ID<5b5b2530-c592-4035-b954-62e88339b4f7@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#478692
El sábado, 1 de diciembre de 2018, 13:51:04 (UTC-3), Keith Stein  escribió:

> 
>  >> There has certainly never been, and indeed never will be, any
>  >> experiment which shows that clocks which are synchronized in one
>  >> frame are not synchronized in a different reference frame. What
>  >> experiment of you thinking of Odd?
> 
> You should note Gary that even if clocks flown around the world
> indicate a different time to the clocks at A and B which have remained
> stationary in the laboratory, this would certainly NOT prove that
> the clocks at A and B are not synchronized when you walk towards them.
>

You clearly don't know what synchronizing clocks means. Read Einstein 1905
paper to learn that.

Clearly, if I have two atomic clocks in my lab I can synchronize them (meaning
their readings will be the same). It is obvious that a moving observer can't
affect those two synchronized clocks, but his readings of those clocks will
not be the same reading I have, by being next to the clocks.

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#478704

FromGary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com>
Date2018-12-01 11:20 -0800
Message-ID<c9a1643b-0a37-484e-9801-3575a88264c9@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#478692
On Saturday, December 1, 2018 at 9:51:04 AM UTC-7, Keith Stein wrote:
>
> On 01/12/2018 12:53, Gary Harnagel wrote:
> >
> > On Saturday, December 1, 2018 at 3:15:47 AM UTC-7, Keith Stein wrote:
> 
> Thank you for your attempt to help Mr.Bodkin out Gary. Unfortunately
> all your arguments and references are totally irrelevant. I rather
> think you have lost sight of what the discussion was about,so let me
> remind you eh!

You are an ignorant liar, Keith.  YOU are the one who asked:

"Don't hold out on us Odd. Do tell us how Tom Roberts proposes to
demonstrate that clocks which are synchronized in the laboratory
frame are not synchronized in some other frame."

Which is EXACTLY what I replied to.  Your dishonesty is getting more
and more rampant.

> [Irrelevant CRAP deleted]
>
> Consideration of this result led to the following discussion
> between myself and Mr.Bodkin:-

There was no "result" except for a dishonest attempt to prove by sophistry
that use of assumptions of the Galilean transform leads to results of the
Galilean transform.

> You should note Gary that even if clocks flown around the world
> indicate a different time to the clocks at A and B which have remained
> stationary in the laboratory, this would certainly NOT prove that
> the clocks at A and B are not synchronized when you walk towards them.

I never mentioned clocks flown around the world.  I didn't do that
because I knew that your feeble mind was incapable of understanding
such a world-spanning experiment.

> Similarly nothing done by muons, or GPS clocks in orbit, can
> prove that the two clocks which have both remained stationary in
> the laboratory are out of sync. when you walk towards the clocks.

So your mind is too feeble to understand that principles valid in one
situation have universal validity.  How parochial of you!

> So Gary let us remind ourselves once more just what it was that
> Odd was claiming:

Let me remind you that YOU asked Odd:

"Don't hold out on us Odd. Do tell us how Tom Roberts proposes to 
demonstrate that clocks which are synchronized in the laboratory 
frame are not synchronized in some other frame."

Your dishonesty is beyond belief!

> So i suggest that we all wait patiently to see what experiment Mr.Bodkin 
> offers to back up this claim eh!
> 
> keith stein

The fact that time is observed to be different in different frames is
DIRECTLY applicable to the problem you presented and then passed sophist
gas about claiming that "moving toward clocks does't affect them" as if
ANYONE believes that.  It has been explained to you that it's the
MEASUREMENT of time from different frames that's the cause, yet you
still wallow in sophistry trying to dishonestly claim that we're saying
the clocks themselves are affected.

I guess you might not be dishonest, maybe you're just stupid.

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#478668

FromPaparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl>
Date2018-12-01 04:53 -0800
Message-ID<bd86b96d-753f-44e8-9fee-47a58ac5dc53@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#478660
El sábado, 1 de diciembre de 2018, 7:15:47 (UTC-3), Keith Stein  escribió:

> 
> So for the second time of asking, Odd, WHAT OBSERVATIONAL FACT
> demonstrates that clocks which are synchronized in one frame,
> are not synchronized in all frames ?
> 
> keith stein
> 

And for the second time, the GPS system shows how atomic clock signals do not
remain synchronized.

See http://webs.ftmc.uam.es/juancarlos.cuevas/Teaching/GPS_relativity.pdf

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#478681

Fromkenseto <setoken@att.net>
Date2018-12-01 07:21 -0800
Message-ID<1d5cceeb-2ad3-4f7f-b41e-5b823653fa64@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#478668
On Saturday, December 1, 2018 at 7:53:16 AM UTC-5, Paparios wrote:
> El sábado, 1 de diciembre de 2018, 7:15:47 (UTC-3), Keith Stein  escribió:
> 
> > 
> > So for the second time of asking, Odd, WHAT OBSERVATIONAL FACT
> > demonstrates that clocks which are synchronized in one frame,
> > are not synchronized in all frames ?
> > 
> > keith stein
> > 
> 
> And for the second time, the GPS system shows how atomic clock signals do not
> remain synchronized.
> 
> See http://webs.ftmc.uam.es/juancarlos.cuevas/Teaching/GPS_relativity.pdf

If you add 4.4647 more periods of Cs 133 radiation to two GPS clocks’ clock second then these clocks will be synchronized according to the earth observer.

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#478689

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2018-12-01 15:43 +0000
Message-ID<ptua7b$138n$2@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#478681
kenseto <setoken@att.net> wrote:
> On Saturday, December 1, 2018 at 7:53:16 AM UTC-5, Paparios wrote:
>> El sábado, 1 de diciembre de 2018, 7:15:47 (UTC-3), Keith Stein  escribió:
>> 
>>> 
>>> So for the second time of asking, Odd, WHAT OBSERVATIONAL FACT
>>> demonstrates that clocks which are synchronized in one frame,
>>> are not synchronized in all frames ?
>>> 
>>> keith stein
>>> 
>> 
>> And for the second time, the GPS system shows how atomic clock signals do not
>> remain synchronized.
>> 
>> See http://webs.ftmc.uam.es/juancarlos.cuevas/Teaching/GPS_relativity.pdf
> 
> If you add 4.4647 more periods of Cs 133 radiation to two GPS clocks’
> clock second then these clocks will be synchronized according to the earth observer.
> 

And not synchronized to any any other observer. 

-- 
Odd Bodkin -- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#478744

Fromkenseto <setoken@att.net>
Date2018-12-01 21:35 -0800
Message-ID<e7aa177f-2c7a-45e9-9f32-9324bdec7244@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#478689
On Saturday, December 1, 2018 at 10:43:42 AM UTC-5, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> kenseto <setoken@att.net> wrote:
> > On Saturday, December 1, 2018 at 7:53:16 AM UTC-5, Paparios wrote:
> >> El sábado, 1 de diciembre de 2018, 7:15:47 (UTC-3), Keith Stein  escribió:
> >> 
> >>> 
> >>> So for the second time of asking, Odd, WHAT OBSERVATIONAL FACT
> >>> demonstrates that clocks which are synchronized in one frame,
> >>> are not synchronized in all frames ?
> >>> 
> >>> keith stein
> >>> 
> >> 
> >> And for the second time, the GPS system shows how atomic clock signals do not
> >> remain synchronized.
> >> 
> >> See http://webs.ftmc.uam.es/juancarlos.cuevas/Teaching/GPS_relativity.pdf
> > 
> > If you add 4.4647 more periods of Cs 133 radiation to two GPS clocks’
> > clock second then these clocks will be synchronized according to the earth observer.
> > 
> 
> And not synchronized to any any other observer. 
 
Assertions are not a valid argument.

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#478774

Frommoroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)
Date2018-12-02 17:31 +0000
Message-ID<pu14tb$7el$3@pcls7.std.com>
In reply to#478744
kenseto <setoken@att.net> writes:

>Assertions are not a valid argument.

So why do you keep asserting things like "their clock seconds contains a
different amount of absolute time", "The GPS second is redefined to have
4.4647 more periods of Cs 133 radiation than the ground clock second" and
all your other assertions?

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#478759

FromThomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de>
Date2018-12-02 16:24 +0100
Message-ID<e144f0a9-84b4-3052-cc33-239263930415@PointedEars.de>
In reply to#478681
kenseto wrote:
> On Saturday, December 1, 2018 at 7:53:16 AM UTC-5, Paparios wrote:
>> El sábado, 1 de diciembre de 2018, 7:15:47 (UTC-3), Keith Stein  escribió:
>>> So for the second time of asking, Odd, WHAT OBSERVATIONAL FACT
>>> demonstrates that clocks which are synchronized in one frame,
>>> are not synchronized in all frames ?
>> And for the second time, the GPS system shows how atomic clock signals do not
>> remain synchronized.
>>
>> See http://webs.ftmc.uam.es/juancarlos.cuevas/Teaching/GPS_relativity.pdf
> 
> If you add 4.4647 more periods of Cs 133 radiation to two GPS clocks’
> clock second then these clocks will be synchronized according to
> the earth observer.

The offset that needs to be compensated is ca. ((56 − 7) µs)/d, so with
9'192'631'770 cycles per second (exact, defined) you would have to add

  48 µs × 9192631770/(86'400 s) ≈ 5.1070177

periods per standard day.

And not “Cs 133 radiation”, but “radiation corresponding to the hyperfine
transition of Cs-133”.

That aside, that is precisely what is done (GPS *satellite* seconds are
*counted* this way; which is precisely what we meant when we told you
repeatedly that “the GPS satellite clocks are made to tick slower than
normal” and the like).

But that means that *there is a need for this correction* in the first
place.  This *confirms* special and general relativity whose equations
*predict* that need:

<http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a058591.pdf#page=16> (9.8 MiB)

This also means that neither the TWSL nor the OWSL are variable.

The connections between these facts are so very simple.  Ask yourself: Why
are you apparently *unable* to understand it?  Is it sheer incompetence, or
more?

-- 
PointedEars

Twitter: @PointedEars2
Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.

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#478769

Fromkenseto <setoken@att.net>
Date2018-12-02 08:36 -0800
Message-ID<666726b5-5a4c-468b-a243-4979adb3d4d5@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#478759
On Sunday, December 2, 2018 at 10:24:04 AM UTC-5, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> kenseto wrote:
> > On Saturday, December 1, 2018 at 7:53:16 AM UTC-5, Paparios wrote:
> >> El sábado, 1 de diciembre de 2018, 7:15:47 (UTC-3), Keith Stein  escribió:
> >>> So for the second time of asking, Odd, WHAT OBSERVATIONAL FACT
> >>> demonstrates that clocks which are synchronized in one frame,
> >>> are not synchronized in all frames ?
> >> And for the second time, the GPS system shows how atomic clock signals do not
> >> remain synchronized.
> >>
> >> See http://webs.ftmc.uam.es/juancarlos.cuevas/Teaching/GPS_relativity.pdf
> > 
> > If you add 4.4647 more periods of Cs 133 radiation to two GPS clocks’
> > clock second then these clocks will be synchronized according to
> > the earth observer.
> 
> The offset that needs to be compensated is ca. ((56 − 7) µs)/d, so with
> 9'192'631'770 cycles per second (exact, defined) you would have to add
> 
>   48 µs × 9192631770/(86'400 s) ≈ 5.1070177
> 
> periods per standard day.

You are wrong.....

> 
> And not “Cs 133 radiation”, but “radiation corresponding to the hyperfine
> transition of Cs-133”.
> 
> That aside, that is precisely what is done (GPS *satellite* seconds are
> *counted* this way; which is precisely what we meant when we told you
> repeatedly that “the GPS satellite clocks are made to tick slower than
> normal” and the like).
> 
> But that means that *there is a need for this correction* in the first
> place.  This *confirms* special and general relativity whose equations
> *predict* that need:
> 
> <http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a058591.pdf#page=16> (9.8 MiB)
> 
> This also means that neither the TWSL nor the OWSL are variable.
> 
> The connections between these facts are so very simple.  Ask yourself: Why
> are you apparently *unable* to understand it?  Is it sheer incompetence, or
> more?
> 
> -- 
> PointedEars
> 
> Twitter: @PointedEars2
> Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#478795

Fromkenseto <setoken@att.net>
Date2018-12-02 12:45 -0800
Message-ID<9bf7fca7-b87e-4453-8073-519102bacc20@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#478769
On Sunday, December 2, 2018 at 11:36:30 AM UTC-5, kenseto wrote:
> On Sunday, December 2, 2018 at 10:24:04 AM UTC-5, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> > kenseto wrote:
> > > On Saturday, December 1, 2018 at 7:53:16 AM UTC-5, Paparios wrote:
> > >> El sábado, 1 de diciembre de 2018, 7:15:47 (UTC-3), Keith Stein  escribió:
> > >>> So for the second time of asking, Odd, WHAT OBSERVATIONAL FACT
> > >>> demonstrates that clocks which are synchronized in one frame,
> > >>> are not synchronized in all frames ?
> > >> And for the second time, the GPS system shows how atomic clock signals do not
> > >> remain synchronized.
> > >>
> > >> See http://webs.ftmc.uam.es/juancarlos.cuevas/Teaching/GPS_relativity.pdf
> > > 
> > > If you add 4.4647 more periods of Cs 133 radiation to two GPS clocks’
> > > clock second then these clocks will be synchronized according to
> > > the earth observer.
> > 
> > The offset that needs to be compensated is ca. ((56 − 7) µs)/d, so with
> > 9'192'631'770 cycles per second (exact, defined) you would have to add
> > 
> >   48 µs × 9192631770/(86'400 s) ≈ 5.1070177
> > 
> > periods per standard day.
> 
> You are wrong.....


> 
> > 
> > And not “Cs 133 radiation”, but “radiation corresponding to the hyperfine
> > transition of Cs-133”.
> > 
> > That aside, that is precisely what is done (GPS *satellite* seconds are
> > *counted* this way; which is precisely what we meant when we told you
> > repeatedly that “the GPS satellite clocks are made to tick slower than
> > normal” and the like).
> > 
> > But that means that *there is a need for this correction* in the first
> > place.  This *confirms* special and general relativity whose equations
> > *predict* that need:
> > 
> > <http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a058591.pdf#page=16> (9.8 MiB)
> > 
> > This also means that neither the TWSL nor the OWSL are variable.
> > 
> > The connections between these facts are so very simple.  Ask yourself: Why
> > are you apparently *unable* to understand it?  Is it sheer incompetence, or
> > more?
> > 
> > -- 
> > PointedEars
> > 
> > Twitter: @PointedEars2
> > Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.

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#478796

FromThomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de>
Date2018-12-02 21:52 +0100
Message-ID<aa6c1f05-28d4-26f1-26ef-a743b73b0021@PointedEars.de>
In reply to#478769
kenseto wrote:
> On Sunday, December 2, 2018 at 10:24:04 AM UTC-5, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>> kenseto wrote:
>>> If you add 4.4647 more periods of Cs 133 radiation to two GPS clocks’
>>> clock second then these clocks will be synchronized according to
>>> the earth observer.
>>
>> The offset that needs to be compensated is ca. ((56 − 7) µs)/d, so with
>> 9'192'631'770 cycles per second (exact, defined) you would have to add
>>
>>   48 µs × 9192631770/(86'400 s) ≈ 5.1070177
>>
>> periods per standard day.
> 
> You are wrong.....

Indeed, I miscalculated; but you have miscalculated, too.  f = 9'192'631'770
cycles per second (s⁻¹ = Hz) – as follows from the SI definition of the
second – is equivalent to a period of

  T = 1/f ≈ 1.0878278 × 10⁻¹⁰ s ≈ 0.109 ns.

If one multiplies that period with 4.4647 as you suggested, one gets only
ca. 0.485 *n*s = 4.8 × 10⁻¹⁰ s.

But AISB, correctly, the offset that needs to be compensated is ca.
48 *µ*s = 4.8 × 10⁻⁵ s. [1]

So your value is too small by 5 orders of magnitude.  It would have to be
more like 446'470 additional periods per standard day instead.

     [That the GPS precision has to be in the *nano*second range, but
      satellite time would be off by tens of *micro*seconds, is the main
      reason why the compensation for relativistic effects is necessary.
      The other is, of course, exact timekeeping. [1]]

[1] <http://www.astronomy.ohio-state.edu/~pogge/Ast162/Unit5/gps.html>

-- 
PointedEars

Twitter: @PointedEars2
Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.

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#478809

Frommoroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)
Date2018-12-02 22:17 +0000
Message-ID<pu1lld$16c$1@pcls7.std.com>
In reply to#478796
Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> writes:

>kenseto wrote:
>> On Sunday, December 2, 2018 at 10:24:04 AM UTC-5, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>>> kenseto wrote:
>>>> If you add 4.4647 more periods of Cs 133 radiation to two GPS clocks’
>>>> clock second then these clocks will be synchronized according to
>>>> the earth observer.
>>>
>>> The offset that needs to be compensated is ca. ((56 − 7) µs)/d, so with
>>> 9'192'631'770 cycles per second (exact, defined) you would have to add
>>>
>>>   48 µs × 9192631770/(86'400 s) ≈ 5.1070177
>>>
>>> periods per standard day.
>> 
>> You are wrong.....

>Indeed, I miscalculated; but you have miscalculated, too.  f = 9'192'631'770
>cycles per second (s⁻¹ = Hz) – as follows from the SI definition of the
>second – is equivalent to a period of

>  T = 1/f ≈ 1.0878278 × 10⁻¹⁰ s ≈ 0.109 ns.

>If one multiplies that period with 4.4647 as you suggested, one gets only
>ca. 0.485 *n*s = 4.8 × 10⁻¹⁰ s.

>But AISB, correctly, the offset that needs to be compensated is ca.
>48 *µ*s = 4.8 × 10⁻⁵ s. [1]

>So your value is too small by 5 orders of magnitude.  It would have to be
>more like 446'470 additional periods per standard day instead.

The rate difference is 38 microseconds *per day". (38=45-7)

I get ((38 microseconds/day) / (86 400 seconds/day) * 9 192 631 770 Hz =
4.04305564 ticks/seconds to compensate.

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#478818

FromThomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de>
Date2018-12-03 01:39 +0100
Message-ID<2a54a89a-2289-ebe1-b2f8-f685967bd8f6@PointedEars.de>
In reply to#478809
</killfile>

Michael Moroney wrote:
> Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> writes:
>> Indeed, I miscalculated; but you have miscalculated, too.  f = 9'192'631'770
>> cycles per second (s⁻¹ = Hz) – as follows from the SI definition of the
>> second – is equivalent to a period of
> 
>>  T = 1/f ≈ 1.0878278 × 10⁻¹⁰ s ≈ 0.109 ns.
> 
>> If one multiplies that period with 4.4647 as you suggested, one gets only
>> ca. 0.485 *n*s = 4.8 × 10⁻¹⁰ s.
> 
>> But AISB, correctly, the offset that needs to be compensated is ca.
>> 48 *µ*s = 4.8 × 10⁻⁵ s. [1]
> 
>> So your value is too small by 5 orders of magnitude.  It would have to be
>> more like 446'470 additional periods per standard day instead.
> 
> The rate difference is 38 microseconds *per day". (38=45-7)

Correct (as obvious from my reference “[1]”).  For some reason I recalled
the wrong value.  38 µs equal only 349'320.01 periods of the mentioned
radiation instead: 1.0878278 × 10⁻¹⁰ s × 349'320.01 ≈ 0.000038 s = 38 µs.

> I get ((38 microseconds/day) / (86 400 seconds/day) * 9 192 631 770 Hz =
> 4.04305564 ticks/seconds to compensate.

Neither your numbers nor your units are correct (the latter should be
obvious).  Keep in mind that my original approach was wrong.


It is a pity that you chose to continue violating the rules:

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| In all cases, the "From:" field SHOULD NOT contain any mailbox that
| does not belong to the author(s) of the message.  See also section
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<killfile>

-- 
PointedEars

Twitter: @PointedEars2
Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.

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#478820

Frommoroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)
Date2018-12-03 01:12 +0000
Message-ID<pu1vu7$rgg$2@pcls7.std.com>
In reply to#478818
Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> writes:

></killfile>

>Michael Moroney wrote:

>> I get ((38 microseconds/day) / (86 400 seconds/day) * 9 192 631 770 Hz =
>> 4.04305564 ticks/seconds to compensate.

>Neither your numbers nor your units are correct (the latter should be
>obvious).  Keep in mind that my original approach was wrong.

Please explain:

>>I get ((38 microseconds/day) / (86 400 seconds/day)

Becomes a value in microseconds/second, or 4.398*10^-10 (unitless).

>> * 9 192 631 770 Hz 

(cycles/second) = 4.043055639583... cycles/second.



>It is a pity that you chose to continue violating the rules:


Nobody except you has complained in 15-20 years.

><killfile>

Amusing that you just happened to know to let me out of your killfile just
long enough for you to see my reply before putting me back in.  Twice.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#478826

FromThomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de>
Date2018-12-03 03:53 +0100
Message-ID<c76673e3-7844-ca64-d80f-5069ad086474@PointedEars.de>
In reply to#478820
</killfile>

Michael Moroney wrote:
> Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> writes:
>> </killfile>
>> Michael Moroney wrote:
>>> I get ((38 microseconds/day) / (86 400 seconds/day) * 9 192 631 770 Hz =
>>> 4.04305564 ticks/seconds to compensate.
>> Neither your numbers nor your units are correct (the latter should be
>> obvious).  Keep in mind that my original approach was wrong.
> 
> Please explain:
> 
>>> I get ((38 microseconds/day) / (86 400 seconds/day)
> 
> Becomes a value in microseconds/second, or 4.398*10^-10 (unitless).

_dimensionless_

>>> * 9 192 631 770 Hz 
> 
> (cycles/second) = 4.043055639583... cycles/second.

OK, that works.  Dividing my new value by 86400 s produces your value,
approximately.

>> It is a pity that you chose to continue violating the rules:
> 
> Nobody except you has complained in 15-20 years.

That does not make it right.

>> <killfile>
> 
> Amusing that you just happened to know to let me out of your killfile just
> long enough for you to see my reply before putting me back in.  Twice.

I use a smart killfile.

<killfile>

-- 
PointedEars

Twitter: @PointedEars2
Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.

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