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Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #473779 > unrolled thread

Why the *Medium* Matters.

Started byKeith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com>
First post2018-10-02 09:47 +0100
Last post2018-10-16 19:13 +0100
Articles 15 on this page of 155 — 14 participants

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Contents

  Why the *Medium* Matters. Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-10-02 09:47 +0100
    Why the *Medium* Matters. "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-10-02 04:20 -0700
      Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-10-02 13:21 +0100
        Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-10-02 06:02 -0700
          Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-10-02 14:12 +0100
    Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-10-02 12:39 +0000
      Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-10-02 14:08 +0100
        Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-10-07 08:40 -0500
          Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2018-10-07 07:22 -0700
            Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. Paul Gish <uop@uwrwuao.tt> - 2018-10-07 14:42 +0000
              Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2018-10-07 17:41 -0700
    Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-10-02 13:19 +0000
      Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2018-10-02 06:56 -0700
        Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-10-02 14:00 +0000
          Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-10-02 07:12 -0700
            Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-10-02 07:14 -0700
          Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2018-10-02 07:12 -0700
            Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-10-02 14:15 +0000
              Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-10-02 08:49 -0700
              Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2018-10-02 13:31 -0700
              Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2018-10-03 06:06 -0700
                Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-10-03 06:09 -0700
                Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-10-03 14:05 +0000
                  Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2018-10-03 07:14 -0700
                    Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-10-03 15:38 +0000
                    Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-10-03 16:43 +0000
                  Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2018-10-03 08:51 -0700
                    Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-10-03 16:06 +0000
                      Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-10-03 09:17 -0700
                      Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2018-10-04 07:24 -0700
                        Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-10-04 15:25 +0000
                          Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2018-10-04 08:53 -0700
                            Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-10-04 19:22 +0000
                              Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2018-10-04 14:38 -0700
                                Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. Paul Gish <uop@uwrwuao.tt> - 2018-10-04 21:47 +0000
                                Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-10-04 22:03 +0000
                                  Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-10-05 08:30 +0100
                                  Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2018-10-05 04:26 -0700
                                    Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-10-06 15:01 +0000
                                      Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-10-06 08:11 -0700
                                      Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2018-10-06 08:32 -0700
                                        Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-10-06 20:20 +0000
                                          Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2018-10-07 07:19 -0700
                                            Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-10-07 19:19 +0000
                                Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-10-05 01:00 +0000
                              Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-10-04 21:40 -0700
                    Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-10-03 16:45 +0000
            Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-10-02 17:10 +0100
              Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-10-02 09:15 -0700
              Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-10-02 09:18 -0700
              Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2018-10-03 06:41 -0700
                Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-10-03 19:06 +0100
                  Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2018-10-04 07:52 -0700
        Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. Hilton Packett <wod@wcotahr.ce> - 2018-10-02 20:28 +0000
          Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. Libor Striz <poutnik4REMOVEnntp@CAPITALSgmail.com> - 2018-10-03 03:32 +0200
            Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-10-03 05:18 +0100
              Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-10-03 05:06 +0000
                Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-10-03 10:51 +0100
                  Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-10-03 09:58 +0000
                    Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-10-03 03:19 -0700
                    Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-10-03 12:28 +0100
                      Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-10-03 12:44 +0000
                        Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-10-03 05:57 -0700
                      Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-10-03 14:05 +0000
                        Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-10-03 09:16 -0700
                    Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-10-03 19:36 +0100
                      Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-10-03 18:59 +0000
                      Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-10-03 19:53 +0000
                        Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-10-03 21:56 +0100
                          Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-10-04 04:45 +0000
                            Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-10-04 00:06 -0700
                            Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-10-04 09:58 +0100
                              Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-10-04 02:46 -0700
                              Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-10-04 10:03 +0000
                                Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-10-04 03:31 -0700
                                Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-10-04 12:21 +0100
                                  Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-10-04 11:49 +0000
                                    Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-10-04 05:42 -0700
                                      Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-10-04 14:46 +0100
                                        Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-10-04 15:25 +0000
                                          Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-10-04 09:41 -0700
                                            Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-10-04 18:26 +0100
                                              Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-10-04 11:45 -0700
                                                Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-10-05 07:15 +0100
                                                  Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-10-05 06:39 +0000
                                                    Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-10-05 00:31 -0700
                                                  Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-10-05 06:53 +0000
                                                    Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-10-05 08:51 +0100
                                                      Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-10-05 00:58 -0700
                                                        Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-10-05 12:17 +0100
                                                      Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-10-06 14:54 +0000
                                                        Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-10-06 08:10 -0700
                                                        Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-10-06 19:17 +0100
                                                          Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-10-06 20:20 +0000
                                                            Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-10-07 05:37 +0100
                                                              Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-10-07 09:17 +0100
                                                                Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-10-07 04:57 -0700
                                                                  Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-10-07 04:59 -0700
                                                                    Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-10-07 05:39 -0700
                                                              Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-10-07 20:36 +0000
                                                            Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-10-06 22:59 -0700
                                Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2018-10-04 07:13 -0700
                                  Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-10-04 15:25 +0000
                                    Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2018-10-04 09:00 -0700
                  Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-10-03 12:33 +0000
                    Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-10-03 05:38 -0700
              Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-10-04 11:30 +0100
            Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2018-10-03 06:18 -0700
              Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-10-03 13:41 +0000
              Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. Paul Gish <uop@uwrwuao.tt> - 2018-10-03 20:01 +0000
            Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. Paul Gish <uop@uwrwuao.tt> - 2018-10-03 20:00 +0000
    Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-10-04 14:28 -0400
      Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-10-05 06:32 +0100
        Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-10-05 06:44 +0000
          Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-10-05 09:03 +0100
        Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-10-07 08:59 -0500
          Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2018-10-07 07:33 -0700
          Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-10-07 16:37 +0200
            Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-10-08 12:30 -0500
              Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. Paul Gish <uop@uwrwuao.tc> - 2018-10-08 17:41 +0000
              Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-10-08 20:00 +0200
                Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-10-08 22:12 -0500
                  Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-10-08 23:39 -0400
                    Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-10-08 20:46 -0700
                    Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-10-09 13:30 -0500
                  Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-10-15 22:21 +0200
                    Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-10-15 21:14 +0000
                      Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-10-15 22:10 -0500
                        Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-10-16 08:50 +0200
                          Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-10-16 18:43 -0500
                            Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-10-17 03:30 +0200
                      Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-10-16 22:47 -0400
                    Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-10-15 22:07 -0500
                      Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-10-15 22:14 -0700
                      Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-10-16 08:39 +0200
                        Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-10-16 05:03 -0700
                          Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-10-16 21:08 +0100
                            Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-10-16 18:50 -0500
                              Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-10-17 03:31 +0200
                              Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-10-17 06:28 +0100
                                Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-10-17 13:02 -0400
                                  Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-10-17 18:47 +0100
                            Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-10-19 19:15 +0000
                            Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-10-22 11:44 -0500
                          Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-10-16 23:11 +0200
                        Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-10-16 18:41 -0500
                          Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2018-10-22 13:04 -0700
              Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2018-10-09 06:06 -0700
                Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-10-09 08:45 -0500
                  Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-10-09 07:27 -0700
                    Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-10-09 07:40 -0700
                      Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-10-09 07:43 -0700
                  Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2018-10-10 07:08 -0700
                Re: Why the *Medium* Matters. Paul Gish <uop@uwrwuao.tc> - 2018-10-09 14:04 +0000
    Another Reason "Why the *Medium* Matters." Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-10-16 19:13 +0100

Page 8 of 8 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 [8]


#475111

Frombenj <benj.fake@gmail.com>
Date2018-10-17 13:02 -0400
Message-ID<pq7pug$1hjh$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#475078
On 10/17/2018 1:28 AM, Keith Stein wrote:
> On 17/10/2018 00:50, Tom Roberts wrote:
>> On 10/16/18 3:08 PM, Keith Stein wrote:
> 
>>> At the macroscopic level we know what it is.
>>> LIGHT IS AN ELECTROMAGNETIC WAVE
>>
>> No. We only MODEL it as an EM wave, and only in certain physical 
>> situations. Underlying that model is a better one in which a light ray 
>> consists of myriad photons.
>>
>>>   There are many experiments that
>>>   cannot be explained with any sort of wave model,
>>>
>>> Not at the macroscopic level there aren't.
>>
>> Lasers are certainly macroscopic objects,
> 
> Yes macroscopic objects with resonant chambers in which
> the ELECTROMAGNETIC WAVE is amplified as it bounces between
> the mirrors, which are an integral number of *WAVELENGTHS* apart.
> 
>> as are the light beams they generate. But their light cannot be 
>> modeled as a wave.
> 
> On the contrary Mr.Roberts, laser light is modeled as an almost 
> MONOCHROMATIC, COHERENT, *WAVE*, 'cos that's what it IS eh!
> 
>   For instance,
>> coherence length makes no sense for a wave.
> Strange you would say that Mr.Roberts, because i would say
> that "coherence length" ONLY MAKES SENSE for a *WAVE*.
> 
> keith stein

Mr. Roberts as usual has no clue, but then you have failed to explain 
the nature of laser light when the intensity is reduced to VERY low 
levels. If Light is a wave, then you need a wave theory to explain those 
effects. OK? (phlogiston theory)

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#475120

FromKeith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com>
Date2018-10-17 18:47 +0100
Message-ID<2BKxD.126203$wF4.64823@fx27.am4>
In reply to#475111
On 17/10/2018 18:02, benj wrote:
> On 10/17/2018 1:28 AM, Keith Stein wrote:
>> On 17/10/2018 00:50, Tom Roberts wrote:
>>> On 10/16/18 3:08 PM, Keith Stein wrote:
>>
>>>> At the macroscopic level we know what it is.
>>>> LIGHT IS AN ELECTROMAGNETIC WAVE
>>>
>>> No. We only MODEL it as an EM wave, and only in certain physical 
>>> situations. Underlying that model is a better one in which a light 
>>> ray consists of myriad photons.
>>>
>>>>   There are many experiments that
>>>>   cannot be explained with any sort of wave model,
>>>>
>>>> Not at the macroscopic level there aren't.
>>>
>>> Lasers are certainly macroscopic objects,
>>
>> Yes macroscopic objects with resonant chambers in which
>> the ELECTROMAGNETIC WAVE is amplified as it bounces between
>> the mirrors, which are an integral number of *WAVELENGTHS* apart.
>>
>>> as are the light beams they generate. But their light cannot be 
>>> modeled as a wave.
>>
>> On the contrary Mr.Roberts, laser light is modeled as an almost 
>> MONOCHROMATIC, COHERENT, *WAVE*, 'cos that's what it IS eh!
>>
>>   For instance,
>>> coherence length makes no sense for a wave.
>> Strange you would say that Mr.Roberts, because i would say
>> that "coherence length" ONLY MAKES SENSE for a *WAVE*.
>>
>> keith stein
> 
> Mr. Roberts as usual has no clue, but then you have failed to explain 
> the nature of laser light when the intensity is reduced to VERY low 
> levels. If Light is a wave, then you need a wave theory to explain those 
> effects. OK? (phlogiston theory)


Well i don't know much phlogiston theory myself Benj, but at the
macroscopic level light is an electromagnetic wave in a medium,
i.e. Maxwell's Theory rather than phlogiston theory, i think,
but i thank you for the response.

keith stein

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#475263

Frommoroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)
Date2018-10-19 19:15 +0000
Message-ID<pqdagd$947$1@pcls7.std.com>
In reply to#475046
Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> writes:

>On 16/10/2018 13:03, Paparios wrote:

>>>>> Tom Roberts wrote:
>>>>>> I agree that we do not know what light actually is.

>At the macroscopic level we know what it is.
>LIGHT IS AN ELECTROMAGNETIC WAVE

No, it resembles a wave in many ways. In many other ways, it does not.

>at the macroscopic level it surely IS.


Not for very short wavelength photons such as gamma rays in interstellar
space, where the spacing between atoms is very large, and the photons/
"waves" spend most of their time in a perfect vacuum.

>  But we _DO_ know
>>>>>> what it is not: light is NOT a wave.

>You certainly can not explain the working of a diffraction grating,
>without modeling light AS a wave Mr.Roberts

And you cannot explain the photoelectric effect with light as a wave.

>  There are many experiments that
>>>>>> cannot be explained with any sort of wave model,

>Not at the macroscopic level there aren't.

Wrong. The photoelectric effect just mentioned.

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#475485

FromTom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net>
Date2018-10-22 11:44 -0500
Message-ID<-ZmdnWUWpJesY1DGnZ2dnUU7_83NnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#475046
On 10/16/18 3:08 PM, Keith Stein wrote:
> You certainly can not explain the working of a diffraction grating,
> without modeling light AS a wave Mr.Roberts

Sure I can: The probability of detecting a photon from a monochromatic 
source, after being diffracted by the grating, yields a pattern that is 
indistinguishable from an analysis using waves.

	Even though photons aren't waves, and don't posses a
	wavelength, the integral over all paths that determines
	detection amplitudes/probabilities is certainly capable
	of generating interference effects; for many optical
	situations this is indistinguishable from a wave analysis.
	After all, wave optics is an approximation to Maxwell's
	equations, which are an approximation to QED.

You need to come down off your high horse and recognize that physics has 
moved on without you, and the ONLY way you can catch up is to STUDY. 
Whatever it is that you think you are doing is not working, as you 
repeatedly display no insights, and no understanding, just IGNORANCE.

Tom Roberts

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#475054

FromThomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de>
Date2018-10-16 23:11 +0200
Message-ID<e2dfc36e-abe9-601e-8fdf-7eee2163504a@PointedEars.de>
In reply to#475024
Paparios wrote:

> Your arrogance, as a student, is showing here (as in many of your posts)!!

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem>

> Tom has a long history (since more than 20 years in this forum) of providing
> good and up to date insights into all these subjects. He was/is a working
> scientist while you are what??

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority>

-- 
PointedEars

Twitter: @PointedEars2
Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.

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#475060

FromTom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net>
Date2018-10-16 18:41 -0500
Message-ID<tIqdnU_usYXc6lvGnZ2dnUU7_83NnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#475015
On 10/16/18 1:39 AM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> [...]

I am not a lawyer quibbling over minutiae in the wording of a contract. 
Nor am I interested in a Talmudic analysis of such text.

The text you quoted CLEARLY envisions two different models for light. An 
astronomy textbook is NOT the place to look for accurate descriptions of 
the physical processes involved in light.

	BTW if light is modeled as quanta, then it IS NOT A WAVE.
	If there are experiments and observations that no conceivable
	wave model can explain, then light IS NOT A WAVE. Both apply.

Tom Roberts

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#475510

Fromkenseto <setoken@att.net>
Date2018-10-22 13:04 -0700
Message-ID<ffda8d09-d34b-4fa0-891d-da0c7d4f4a68@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#475060
On Tuesday, October 16, 2018 at 7:42:00 PM UTC-4, tjrob137 wrote:
> On 10/16/18 1:39 AM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> > [...]
> 
> I am not a lawyer quibbling over minutiae in the wording of a contract. 
> Nor am I interested in a Talmudic analysis of such text.
> 
> The text you quoted CLEARLY envisions two different models for light. An 
> astronomy textbook is NOT the place to look for accurate descriptions of 
> the physical processes involved in light.
> 
> 	BTW if light is modeled as quanta, then it IS NOT A WAVE.
> 	If there are experiments and observations that no conceivable
> 	wave model can explain, then light IS NOT A WAVE. Both apply.

Can you tell us what experiments and observations that no conceivable wave-packet model can explain?

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#474534

Fromkenseto <setoken@att.net>
Date2018-10-09 06:06 -0700
Message-ID<8fb47bca-7675-4b1a-9118-ce8790bac8ac@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#474471
On Monday, October 8, 2018 at 1:30:48 PM UTC-4, tjrob137 wrote:
> On 10/7/18 9:37 AM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> > There can be no doubt that light can be *modeled* as an electromagnetic
> > wave, a self-propagating excitation of the electromagnetic field.  There
> > is a *wave* equation that describes that:
> > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_wave_equation>
> 
> Sure, IN CERTAIN PHYSICAL SITUATIONS. But this model is quite limited in domain, 
> and is completely useless for modeling a laser, or frequency-doubling crystals, 
> or many other aspects of quantum optics.

Photons as wave-packet can explain laser nicely. I don’t know what frequency-doubling crystals mean.

> 
> > That it can be *modeled* like a collection of _myriads of_ photons in
> > certain specific physical situations, as *elementary* excitations of that
> > field when that interacts with matter, does NOT mean that it actually "is
> > a collection of myriad photons" either.
> 
> Yeah. This is a MUCH better model, that includes the wave model, and all known 
> optical phenomena. But you're right, we don't really know what light actually 
> is, this is just a much better model of its behavior.

Photons as wave-packets can explain all 
phenomena....they include both particle and wave models of light.

> 
> > You can’t have your cake and eat it too.
> 
> Hmmm. I can have a better model, and it's QUITE CLEAR that light is not a wave, 
> for the simple reason that many observed phenomena involving light cannot be 
> modeled as a wave.

Wave-packet of light can explain all observed phenomena of light.

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#474536

FromTom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net>
Date2018-10-09 08:45 -0500
Message-ID<o4ednVKN8bRgLSHGnZ2dnUU7_81j4p2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#474534
On 10/9/18 8:06 AM, kenseto wrote:
> Wave-packet of light can explain all observed phenomena of light.

Not if it is a CLASSICAL wave packet.

Tom Roberts

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#474542

From"David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com>
Date2018-10-09 07:27 -0700
Message-ID<fca4970a-e97b-4694-84b7-adde825202cb@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#474536
tjrob137 escrito 

On 10/9/18 8:06 AM, kenseto wrote: 
> Wave-packet of light can explain all observed phenomena of light. 

Not if it is a CLASSICAL wave packet. 

Tom Roberts 

Wave packet = ((c^7) / (hbar * (G^2))) * (planck length^3) = 1.95611386e+9 joules


(((((c^7) / (hbar * (G^2))) * (planck length^3)) / (G / (c^2))) * hbar)^(1 / 3) = 6.5248935 m kg / s

https://photos.app.goo.gl/rN6DR4aPANaSXQGCA

https://photos.app.goo.gl/uAHcnqP3nd9TFd8y1

https://photos.app.goo.gl/dnYHeIu3criKWutK2

(Classical Friedmann Kinematic Viscosity) to (electron Compton Kinematic Viscosity) to (Planck Kinematic Viscosity)

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Ljusv5jFVIiNWHzOEejwQJyrToKbJkoq68XLLuOnEkk

Fluid Dynamics 







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#474545

From"David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com>
Date2018-10-09 07:40 -0700
Message-ID<4c468271-88ce-43aa-822e-4b64632edcb4@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#474542
tjrob137 escrito 

On 10/9/18 8:06 AM, kenseto wrote: 
> Wave-packet of light can explain all observed phenomena of light. 

Not if it is a CLASSICAL wave packet. 

Tom Roberts 

Wave packet = ((c^7) / (hbar * (G^2))) * (planck length^3) = 1.95611386e+9 joules 


(((((c^7) / (hbar * (G^2))) * (planck length^3)) / (G / (c^2))) * hbar)^(1 / 3) = 6.5248935 m kg / s 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/rN6DR4aPANaSXQGCA 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/uAHcnqP3nd9TFd8y1 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/dnYHeIu3criKWutK2 

(Classical Friedmann Kinematic Viscosity) to (electron Compton Kinematic Viscosity) to (Planck Kinematic Viscosity) 

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Ljusv5jFVIiNWHzOEejwQJyrToKbJkoq68XLLuOnEkk 

Fluid Dynamics 

(Combination of Bjerknes oscillating forces ) = https://photos.app.goo.gl/dimWxqM5DQGUcgVu9 = https://photos.app.goo.gl/ZTaLZhmBeTcemJMJ7

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#474546

From"David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com>
Date2018-10-09 07:43 -0700
Message-ID<334a4e38-7aba-4312-8f02-d28b0cdcd515@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#474545
tjrob137 escrito 

On 10/9/18 8:06 AM, kenseto wrote: 
> Wave-packet of light can explain all observed phenomena of light. 

Not if it is a CLASSICAL wave packet. 

Tom Roberts 

Wave packet = ((c^7) / (hbar * (G^2))) * (planck length^3) = 1.95611386e+9 joules 


(((((c^7) / (hbar * (G^2))) * (planck length^3)) / (G / (c^2))) * hbar)^(1 / 3) = 6.5248935 m kg / s 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/rN6DR4aPANaSXQGCA 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/uAHcnqP3nd9TFd8y1 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/dnYHeIu3criKWutK2 

(Classical Friedmann Kinematic Viscosity) to (electron Compton Kinematic Viscosity) to (Planck Kinematic Viscosity) 

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Ljusv5jFVIiNWHzOEejwQJyrToKbJkoq68XLLuOnEkk 

Fluid Dynamics 

(Combination of Bjerknes oscillating forces ) = https://photos.app.goo.gl/dimWxqM5DQGUcgVu9 = https://photos.app.goo.gl/ZTaLZhmBeTcemJMJ7 

Also explains & gives justification for Einstein’s photoelectric effect = https://photos.app.goo.gl/ZTaLZhmBeTcemJMJ7

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#474588

Fromkenseto <setoken@att.net>
Date2018-10-10 07:08 -0700
Message-ID<bf7cc055-266f-410a-b141-b62bc908145a@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#474536
On Tuesday, October 9, 2018 at 9:45:40 AM UTC-4, tjrob137 wrote:
> On 10/9/18 8:06 AM, kenseto wrote:
> > Wave-packet of light can explain all observed phenomena of light.
> 
> Not if it is a CLASSICAL wave packet.
> 
> Tom Roberts

All the quantum properties of photons in the following past famous experiments are explained, by photons as wave-packets, in the following link: http://www.modelmechanics.org/2015experiment.pdf
1. The Photoelectric Experiment.
2. The Double-Slit Experiment.
3. The Compton Shift Experiment.

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#474539

FromPaul Gish <uop@uwrwuao.tc>
Date2018-10-09 14:04 +0000
Message-ID<ppici1$16e9$2@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#474534
kenseto wrote:

> On Monday, October 8, 2018 at 1:30:48 PM UTC-4, tjrob137 wrote:
>> Hmmm. I can have a better model, and it's QUITE CLEAR that light is not
>> a wave, for the simple reason that many observed phenomena involving
>> light cannot be modeled as a wave.
> 
> Wave-packet of light can explain all observed phenomena of light.

Not if the light is not observable. The phenomenon is still explainable. 
Nice try. You are testinging him.

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#475039 — Another Reason "Why the *Medium* Matters."

FromKeith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com>
Date2018-10-16 19:13 +0100
SubjectAnother Reason "Why the *Medium* Matters."
Message-ID<qTpxD.28166$VQ4.13276@fx20.am4>
In reply to#473779
	Another Reason Why the "Medium" Matters

It is the "medium" or average value, or rather variations of it,
that carry the information.
  Any one event, say the click of a photon detector, carries zero 
information.

Some of you are no doubt thinking "just like this post eh!"
                     B U T
If you wish to really understand the MUSIC, then study it at the
*atomic level*, and keep studying until either you or the atoms
go deaf and blind eh!


keith stein


On 02/10/2018 09:47, Keith Stein wrote:
> The 'medium' for any wave is just the matter through which
> the wave travels, and in all cases the wave velocity is
> relative to the medium.
> 
> Relativists ignore the medium, which is why they can't
> unambiguously synchronize two clocks.
> 
> I think so.
> 
> keith stein

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