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Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #470837 > unrolled thread

Time Dilation as I understand it

Started byEd Lake <detect@newsguy.com>
First post2018-09-07 09:57 -0700
Last post2018-09-28 20:20 +0000
Articles 20 on this page of 617 — 34 participants

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Contents

  Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-07 09:57 -0700
    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-07 12:54 -0700
      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@notmail.com> - 2018-09-07 23:40 +0200
        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-07 15:38 -0700
        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-09-07 21:40 -0700
        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Lorent Regoire <euar@ewghwpq.gr> - 2018-09-08 11:33 +0000
    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-09-08 14:26 -0500
      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-08 12:47 -0700
        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-09-08 20:06 +0000
        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-08 22:11 +0200
        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-08 20:33 +0000
          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-08 14:09 -0700
            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-08 23:47 +0200
            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-09-08 14:47 -0700
            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-08 21:59 +0000
              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2018-09-08 18:21 -0700
              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-09 10:20 -0700
                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-09-09 11:46 -0700
                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-09 12:32 -0700
                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-09-09 13:37 -0700
                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-09-09 14:49 -0700
                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-10 07:56 -0700
                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2018-09-09 13:26 -0700
                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-09 13:57 -0700
                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-09-09 21:11 +0000
                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2018-09-09 14:33 -0700
                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-09-11 12:39 -0700
                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-12 06:53 -0700
                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-09 20:33 +0000
                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-09 14:49 -0700
                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-10 03:40 +0000
                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-10 07:48 -0700
                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-10 16:06 +0000
                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-10 09:43 -0700
                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Wilbur Foley <boue@eywffl.uf> - 2018-09-10 16:45 +0000
                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-10 09:52 -0700
                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-10 17:50 +0000
                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-10 17:46 +0000
                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-10 13:29 -0700
                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-09-11 10:10 -0700
                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-11 14:05 -0700
                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-09-12 06:59 -0700
                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-12 09:22 -0700
                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-09-12 11:06 -0700
                                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Wilbur Foley <boue@eywffl.uf> - 2018-09-12 18:09 +0000
                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-12 14:40 -0700
                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Stakos Netakis <autp@wsalaw.oa> - 2018-09-18 22:04 +0000
                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-19 09:33 -0700
                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Stakos Netakis <autp@wsalaw.oa> - 2018-09-19 17:31 +0000
                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-19 12:16 -0700
                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-19 13:46 -0700
                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Stakos Netakis <autp@wsalaw.oa> - 2018-09-19 21:58 +0000
                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-20 07:11 -0700
                                                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Stakos Netakis <autp@wsalaws.np> - 2018-09-20 15:20 +0000
                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-19 23:36 +0000
                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Stakos Netakis <autp@wsalaws.np> - 2018-09-20 16:22 +0000
                                                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Jayson Durante <tug@wsedwsa.np> - 2018-09-20 17:40 +0000
                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-09-13 07:36 -0700
                                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-12 14:35 -0700
                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-12 15:10 -0700
                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2018-09-13 08:14 -0700
                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-09-13 08:36 -0700
                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2018-09-13 09:24 -0700
                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2018-09-13 10:42 -0700
                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-13 09:49 -0700
                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2018-09-13 12:55 -0700
                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-13 13:37 -0700
                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2018-09-15 11:36 -0700
                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2018-09-15 12:59 -0700
                                                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Stakos Netakis <autp@wsalaw.oa> - 2018-09-15 20:43 +0000
                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-15 12:54 -0700
                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-15 14:36 -0700
                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-16 08:34 -0700
                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-16 16:37 -0700
                                                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-09-16 23:06 -0700
                                                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-17 09:49 -0700
                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-15 12:34 -0700
                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-09-15 12:49 -0700
                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-15 22:52 +0200
                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Stakos Netakis <autp@wsalaw.oa> - 2018-09-15 21:03 +0000
                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-09-15 22:58 -0700
                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Stakos Netakis <autp@wsalaw.oa> - 2018-09-16 10:10 +0000
                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-15 14:31 -0700
                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Stakos Netakis <autp@wsalaw.oa> - 2018-09-15 21:42 +0000
                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-09-15 23:01 -0700
                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-16 08:22 -0700
                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-16 16:23 -0700
                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-09-13 07:56 -0700
                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-15 12:49 -0700
                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-15 23:43 +0000
                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-16 09:28 -0700
                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-16 17:08 +0000
                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-16 10:56 -0700
                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-09-15 19:03 -0700
                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-09-17 06:03 -0700
                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-11 19:19 +0000
                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-11 15:03 -0700
                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-09-11 16:37 -0700
                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-12 07:24 -0700
                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-12 07:50 +0200
                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-12 06:18 +0000
                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-12 08:44 -0700
                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-09-12 09:28 -0700
                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-12 09:29 -0700
                                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-12 09:52 -0700
                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-12 10:10 -0700
                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-12 10:18 -0700
                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Wilbur Foley <boue@eywffl.uf> - 2018-09-12 18:06 +0000
                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-12 14:16 -0700
                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-12 15:03 -0700
                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-15 12:22 -0700
                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-15 14:21 -0700
                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Stakos Netakis <autp@wsalaw.oa> - 2018-09-15 21:28 +0000
                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-16 08:13 -0700
                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-15 23:54 +0000
                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-16 09:37 -0700
                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-09-12 10:48 -0700
                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-09-12 10:58 -0700
                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-12 18:42 +0000
                                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-09-12 23:31 -0700
                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-09-11 23:41 -0700
                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-09-11 12:57 -0700
                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-11 13:24 -0700
                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-09-11 12:49 -0700
                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Wilbur Foley <boue@eywffl.uf> - 2018-09-11 20:10 +0000
                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-09-11 14:59 -0700
                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Wilbur Foley <boue@eywffl.uf> - 2018-09-11 22:28 +0000
                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-09-11 16:25 -0700
            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-09-08 22:43 +0000
            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-09-10 10:15 -0700
              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-10 12:59 -0700
                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-09-11 09:56 -0700
                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-11 13:55 -0700
                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-09-11 13:57 -0700
            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-09-11 12:29 -0700
              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-12 06:53 -0700
            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-09-17 13:48 -0500
              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Stakos Netakis <autp@wsalaw.oa> - 2018-09-17 20:05 +0000
              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-18 08:15 -0700
        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@notmail.com> - 2018-09-08 22:43 +0200
        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-09-11 12:21 -0700
          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-12 06:52 -0700
      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Lorent Regoires <ewab@ewgvpq.gn> - 2018-09-09 11:16 +0000
        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-09 13:56 +0200
          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Lorent Regoires <ewab@ewgvpq.gn> - 2018-09-09 12:01 +0000
            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-09 14:19 +0200
              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Lorent Regoires <ewab@ewgvpq.gn> - 2018-09-09 12:48 +0000
                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-09 14:24 +0000
                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-11 23:52 +0200
                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Wilbur Foley <boue@eywffl.uf> - 2018-09-11 22:26 +0000
                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-12 07:54 +0200
    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-13 10:02 -0700
      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Wilbur Foley <boue@eywffl.uf> - 2018-09-13 17:03 +0000
      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@notmail.com> - 2018-09-15 18:38 +0200
      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-15 12:56 -0700
        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-15 13:12 -0700
          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-09-15 13:35 -0700
          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-15 13:58 -0700
            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Stakos Netakis <autp@wsalaw.oa> - 2018-09-15 21:08 +0000
            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-16 07:29 -0700
              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-16 08:14 -0700
                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-16 09:51 -0700
                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-16 10:13 -0700
                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@notmail.com> - 2018-09-16 19:42 +0200
                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Stakos Netakis <autp@wsalaw.oa> - 2018-09-16 18:01 +0000
              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-16 10:02 -0700
                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-16 10:27 -0700
                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-16 10:55 -0700
                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-16 11:04 -0700
                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-16 12:59 -0700
                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-09-16 13:11 -0700
                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-09-16 13:28 -0700
                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-16 17:22 -0700
                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-16 16:46 -0700
                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-17 09:53 -0700
                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-17 10:06 -0700
                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-17 14:40 -0700
                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-17 14:44 -0700
                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Stakos Netakis <autp@wsalaw.oa> - 2018-09-17 21:45 +0000
                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-17 14:57 -0700
                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-18 08:53 -0700
                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-18 09:46 -0700
                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-18 09:55 -0700
                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@notmail.com> - 2018-09-18 19:41 +0200
                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Stakos Netakis <autp@wsalaw.oa> - 2018-09-18 22:09 +0000
                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-18 11:01 -0700
                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-09-18 11:24 -0700
                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-18 13:27 -0700
                                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-18 13:58 -0700
                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-09-18 14:10 -0700
                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@notmail.com> - 2018-09-18 23:19 +0200
                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-18 22:03 +0000
                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-19 09:21 -0700
                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-19 23:29 +0000
                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-20 07:53 -0700
                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@notmail.com> - 2018-09-20 17:47 +0200
                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Stakos Netakis <autp@wsalaws.np> - 2018-09-20 16:30 +0000
                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-20 09:34 -0700
                                                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2018-09-20 12:06 -0700
                                                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-20 13:08 -0700
                                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2018-09-20 17:19 -0700
                                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-20 18:30 -0700
                                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-20 23:33 +0000
                                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-21 11:55 -0700
                                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-21 10:52 -0700
                                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2018-09-21 23:08 -0700
                                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Rhett Joyner <udof@rsrrfirv.on> - 2018-09-22 08:17 +0000
                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-20 19:56 +0000
                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-09-21 06:26 -0700
                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2018-09-21 07:23 -0700
                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@notmail.com> - 2018-09-21 17:21 +0200
                                                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2018-09-21 11:32 -0700
                                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@notmail.com> - 2018-09-21 23:30 +0200
                                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2018-09-21 22:05 -0700
                                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-09-21 22:39 -0700
                                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2018-09-21 22:56 -0700
                                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-09-21 23:00 -0700
                                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2018-09-21 23:13 -0700
                                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-09-21 23:20 -0700
                                                                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2018-09-21 23:32 -0700
                                                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-09-22 07:13 -0700
                                                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2018-09-22 11:06 -0700
                                                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-09-22 11:11 -0700
                                                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Rhett Joyner <udof@rsrrfirwv.on> - 2018-09-22 20:39 +0000
                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-21 12:09 -0700
                                                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-21 12:56 -0700
                                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-21 13:24 -0700
                                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2018-09-21 14:41 -0700
                                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Rhett Joyner <udof@rsrrfirw.on> - 2018-09-21 21:51 +0000
                                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-22 08:29 -0700
                                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-22 08:49 -0700
                                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@notmail.com> - 2018-09-22 18:00 +0200
                                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-23 10:05 -0700
                                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-09-23 10:11 -0700
                                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2018-09-23 12:09 -0700
                                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-09-23 14:52 -0700
                                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2018-09-23 12:06 -0700
                                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-23 12:37 -0700
                                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-23 13:20 -0700
                                                                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-09-24 02:48 -0700
                                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-23 22:20 +0200
                                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-09-23 14:53 -0700
                                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2018-09-24 23:54 -0700
                                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-09-24 10:37 -0700
                                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-24 13:45 -0700
                                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2018-09-24 14:04 -0700
                                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-09-24 15:48 -0700
                                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-09-24 16:09 -0700
                                                                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2018-09-24 16:53 -0700
                                                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-09-25 00:21 +0000
                                                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-09-25 05:29 -0700
                                                                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-25 07:31 -0700
                                                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-09-25 08:06 -0700
                                                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-25 08:21 -0700
                                                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@notmail.com> - 2018-09-25 18:13 +0200
                                                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-25 09:59 -0700
                                                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-09-25 10:56 -0700
                                                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-09-25 23:27 -0700
                                                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-09-25 23:31 -0700
                                                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-26 08:01 -0700
                                                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-09-26 08:22 -0700
                                                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-09-26 12:00 -0700
                                                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-26 14:03 -0700
                                                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-09-26 21:48 -0700
                                                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-25 20:53 +0200
                                                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-25 12:53 -0700
                                                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-09-25 23:33 -0700
                                                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-09-26 04:47 -0700
                                                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-26 08:34 -0700
                                                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-09-26 10:33 -0500
                                                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-26 10:00 -0700
                                                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-09-26 13:14 -0500
                                                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@notmail.com> - 2018-09-26 22:11 +0200
                                                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-26 13:34 -0700
                                                                                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-09-27 12:01 -0500
                                                                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-09-27 10:04 -0700
                                                                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-27 13:34 -0700
                                                                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Hilton Packett <wod@wcothr.ce> - 2018-09-27 22:20 +0000
                                                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Hilton Packett <wod@wcothr.ce> - 2018-09-27 22:49 +0000
                                                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2018-09-26 11:16 -0700
                                                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Hilton Packett <wod@wcothr.ce> - 2018-09-26 18:39 +0000
                                                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Hilton Packett <wod@wcothr.ce> - 2018-09-26 18:29 +0000
                                                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-26 13:40 -0700
                                                                                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Hilton Packett <wod@wcothr.ce> - 2018-09-27 22:53 +0000
                                                                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-28 07:22 -0700
                                                                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-28 17:19 +0000
                                                                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Hilton Packett <wod@wcothr.ce> - 2018-09-28 20:06 +0000
                                                                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-28 13:49 -0700
                                                                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Hilton Packett <wod@wcothr.ce> - 2018-09-28 20:10 +0000
                                                                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-28 14:21 -0700
                                                                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Hilton Packett <wod@wcothr.ce> - 2018-09-28 21:34 +0000
                                                                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-28 23:34 +0200
                                                                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Hilton Packett <wod@wcothr.ce> - 2018-09-28 21:50 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-29 05:25 +0200
                                                                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Hilton Packett <wod@wcothr.ce> - 2018-09-29 09:06 +0000
                                                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-09-25 10:16 -0700
                                                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-26 07:39 -0700
                                                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-09-26 11:52 -0700
                                                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-26 13:49 -0700
                                                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2018-09-26 14:45 -0700
                                                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-26 21:51 +0000
                                                                                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-27 08:11 -0700
                                                                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2018-09-27 09:22 -0700
                                                                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-09-27 10:01 -0700
                                                                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-27 16:52 +0000
                                                                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-09-27 10:03 -0700
                                                                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-27 10:23 -0700
                                                                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-09-27 10:34 -0700
                                                                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2018-09-27 10:38 -0700
                                                                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-27 18:33 +0000
                                                                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-27 14:26 -0700
                                                                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2018-09-27 14:56 -0700
                                                                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-28 04:40 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2018-09-28 05:42 -0700
                                                                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-09-28 06:12 -0700
                                                                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-28 07:55 -0700
                                                                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-28 17:32 +0000
                                                                                                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-28 13:56 -0700
                                                                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-09-27 21:55 -0700
                                                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-09-26 15:50 -0700
                                                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2018-09-27 12:00 -0700
                                                                                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-27 14:39 -0700
                                                                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2018-09-28 08:48 -0700
                                                                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-28 09:06 -0700
                                                                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-09-28 18:01 +0000
                                                                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@notmail.com> - 2018-09-28 20:35 +0200
                                                                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-09-28 11:49 -0700
                                                                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-09-28 15:47 -0700
                                                                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2018-09-28 13:47 -0700
                                                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-25 21:42 +0000
                                                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-26 09:16 -0700
                                                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-26 17:33 +0000
                                                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-26 13:06 -0700
                                                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-25 20:38 +0200
                                                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-25 21:32 +0200
                                                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-09-26 10:22 -0700
                                                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-09-25 10:00 -0700
                                                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-25 14:18 -0700
                                                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-25 21:23 +0000
                                                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-09-26 15:54 +0000
                                                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@notmail.com> - 2018-09-26 22:41 +0200
                                                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-26 21:44 +0000
                                                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-26 08:59 -0700
                                                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-26 17:10 +0000
                                                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-26 12:47 -0700
                                                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-26 21:14 +0000
                                                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-26 14:41 -0700
                                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2018-09-22 09:31 -0700
                                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-22 19:44 +0200
                                                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2018-09-21 13:11 -0700
                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-21 11:53 -0700
                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2018-09-21 12:52 -0700
                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-25 04:32 +0200
                                                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-09-25 00:12 -0500
                                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2018-09-24 22:59 -0700
                                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-09-25 07:28 -0700
                                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-09-25 11:52 -0500
                                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-09-25 23:25 -0700
                                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-25 05:36 -0700
                                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-09-25 07:05 -0700
                                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@notmail.com> - 2018-09-25 18:24 +0200
                                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-25 20:12 +0200
                                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-09-25 19:10 -0500
                                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-26 09:19 -0700
                                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-26 17:37 +0000
                                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-26 13:13 -0700
                                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-09-25 19:02 -0500
                                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2018-09-25 07:30 -0700
                                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Hilton Packett <wod@wcothr.ce> - 2018-09-25 15:07 +0000
                                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-09-25 12:01 -0500
                                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-25 08:02 -0700
                                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-09-25 12:05 -0500
                                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-26 07:14 -0700
                                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-26 09:54 -0700
                                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-26 10:04 -0700
                                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-26 10:18 -0700
                                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-26 12:58 -0700
                                                                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-26 15:09 -0700
                                                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-27 08:20 -0700
                                                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-27 09:57 -0700
                                                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-27 13:16 -0700
                                                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-27 14:41 -0700
                                                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-28 06:59 -0700
                                                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-28 07:42 -0700
                                                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-28 08:26 -0700
                                                                                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-28 09:05 -0700
                                                                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-28 09:36 -0700
                                                                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-28 09:58 -0700
                                                                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-28 13:30 -0700
                                                                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-09-28 13:52 -0700
                                                                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-28 23:20 +0200
                                                                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-09-28 14:27 -0700
                                                                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-28 15:03 -0700
                                                                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-29 08:29 -0700
                                                                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2018-09-29 09:33 -0700
                                                                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-29 10:16 -0700
                                                                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-29 10:52 -0700
                                                                                                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-29 11:00 -0700
                                                                                                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-29 11:04 -0700
                                                                                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-29 13:16 -0700
                                                                                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-29 13:43 -0700
                                                                                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-29 14:02 -0700
                                                                                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-09-29 14:09 -0700
                                                                                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-29 17:27 -0700
                                                                                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-30 04:39 +0200
                                                                                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-09-29 21:58 -0500
                                                                                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-30 03:49 +0000
                                                                                                                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-30 05:55 +0200
                                                                                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-30 06:40 -0700
                                                                                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-30 08:23 -0700
                                                                                                                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-30 10:21 -0700
                                                                                                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@notmail.com> - 2018-09-30 19:30 +0200
                                                                                                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-30 11:00 -0700
                                                                                                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-30 12:54 -0700
                                                                                                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-30 13:05 -0700
                                                                                                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-30 13:42 -0700
                                                                                                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-30 21:43 +0000
                                                                                                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-01 08:32 -0700
                                                                                                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-10-01 16:12 +0000
                                                                                                                                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-01 10:01 -0700
                                                                                                                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-10-01 17:23 +0000
                                                                                                                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-10-01 18:31 +0000
                                                                                                                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-01 13:57 -0700
                                                                                                                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it pnalsing@gmail.com - 2018-10-01 16:32 -0700
                                                                                                                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-10-02 02:28 +0000
                                                                                                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-10-01 09:31 -0700
                                                                                                                                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-01 10:10 -0700
                                                                                                                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-10-01 10:46 -0700
                                                                                                                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-01 13:26 -0700
                                                                                                                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it pnalsing@gmail.com - 2018-10-01 13:32 -0700
                                                                                                                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-10-01 13:53 -0700
                                                                                                                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-01 14:09 -0700
                                                                                                                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-10-01 14:33 -0700
                                                                                                                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-01 14:04 -0700
                                                                                                                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2018-10-01 14:21 -0700
                                                                                                                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Hilton Packett <wod@wcotahr.ce> - 2018-10-01 22:23 +0000
                                                                                                                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it pnalsing@gmail.com - 2018-10-01 16:33 -0700
                                                                                                                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-10-02 03:21 +0000
                                                                                                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-30 15:27 -0700
                                                                                                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-01 08:45 -0700
                                                                                                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-10-01 04:10 +0200
                                                                                                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-09-30 11:18 -0700
                                                                                                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-30 13:12 -0700
                                                                                                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-30 13:37 -0700
                                                                                                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-30 14:26 -0700
                                                                                                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-30 15:30 -0700
                                                                                                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-10-01 09:10 -0700
                                                                                                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-10-01 17:39 -0700
                                                                                                                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-30 20:58 +0200
                                                                                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-30 20:52 +0200
                                                                                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-29 20:53 +0000
                                                                                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-29 14:20 -0700
                                                                                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-29 21:32 +0000
                                                                                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2018-10-02 17:14 -0700
                                                                                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-03 07:10 -0700
                                                                                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-03 07:28 -0700
                                                                                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-10-03 07:42 -0700
                                                                                                                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-03 08:21 -0700
                                                                                                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-10-03 08:52 -0700
                                                                                                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-10-03 09:14 -0700
                                                                                                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-03 09:29 -0700
                                                                                                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-10-03 17:13 +0000
                                                                                                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-03 12:15 -0700
                                                                                                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-10-03 12:50 -0700
                                                                                                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paul Gish <uop@uwrwuao.tt> - 2018-10-03 19:56 +0000
                                                                                                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-10-03 14:00 -0700
                                                                                                                                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paul Gish <uop@uwrwuao.tt> - 2018-10-03 21:33 +0000
                                                                                                                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-10-03 14:54 -0700
                                                                                                                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paul Gish <uop@uwrwuao.tt> - 2018-10-04 17:34 +0000
                                                                                                                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-10-04 14:26 -0700
                                                                                                                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paul Gish <uop@uwrwuao.tt> - 2018-10-04 21:41 +0000
                                                                                                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-10-03 20:02 +0000
                                                                                                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-10-03 10:22 -0700
                                                                                                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-03 12:50 -0700
                                                                                                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2018-10-06 07:41 -0700
                                                                                                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@notmail.com> - 2018-10-06 21:50 +0200
                                                                                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-10-03 15:38 +0000
                                                                                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2018-10-03 16:57 -0700
                                                                                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-10-01 13:13 -0700
                                                                                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-01 14:00 -0700
                                                                                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-10-01 14:30 -0700
                                                                                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Hilton Packett <wod@wcotahr.ce> - 2018-10-01 22:25 +0000
                                                                                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-10-01 22:53 -0500
                                                                                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-02 13:24 -0700
                                                                                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-10-02 13:31 -0700
                                                                                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-10-02 13:54 -0700
                                                                                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-10-02 14:31 -0700
                                                                                                                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-10-02 15:24 -0700
                                                                                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-10-02 13:55 -0700
                                                                                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-10-02 14:10 -0700
                                                                                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2018-10-02 14:26 -0700
                                                                                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Burton Callanan <uuu@uwrwuao.tt> - 2018-10-03 15:26 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-10-02 14:23 -0700
                                                                                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-10-03 12:51 -0400
                                                                                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-03 11:54 -0700
                                                                                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-10-03 19:08 +0000
                                                                                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-10-03 12:34 -0700
                                                                                                                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paul Gish <uop@uwrwuao.tt> - 2018-10-03 20:09 +0000
                                                                                                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-10-03 14:01 -0700
                                                                                                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paul Gish <uop@uwrwuao.tt> - 2018-10-04 17:38 +0000
                                                                                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-10-03 17:58 -0400
                                                                                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-28 17:50 +0000
                                                                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-28 14:17 -0700
                                                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-28 17:13 +0000
                                                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-28 13:37 -0700
                                                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-27 17:13 +0000
                                                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-27 13:45 -0700
                                                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-28 03:42 +0000
                                                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-09-27 21:57 -0700
                                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2018-09-26 11:23 -0700
                                                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-09-25 00:17 -0700
                                                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-09-25 07:11 -0700
                                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-25 20:14 +0200
                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2018-09-18 18:02 -0700
                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-18 18:31 -0700
                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-09-19 03:14 -0700
                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2018-09-17 10:39 -0700
                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2018-09-17 10:21 -0700
                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-17 10:31 -0700
                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2018-09-17 10:49 -0700
                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-09-17 18:35 +0000
                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2018-09-17 15:39 -0700
                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-09-17 23:28 +0000
                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2018-09-18 07:13 -0700
                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-09-18 14:30 +0000
                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Stakos Netakis <autp@wsalaw.oa> - 2018-09-17 18:02 +0000
              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2018-09-16 22:09 +0200
                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2018-09-16 22:15 +0200
                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-16 13:52 -0700
                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-16 17:26 -0700
                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-17 10:03 -0700
                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-17 10:11 -0700
                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-09-17 10:21 -0700
                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-17 10:24 -0700
                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-09-17 10:39 -0700
                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-17 14:57 -0700
                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-17 15:03 -0700
                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Stakos Netakis <autp@wsalaw.oa> - 2018-09-17 22:16 +0000
                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-17 15:38 -0700
                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Stakos Netakis <autp@wsalaw.oa> - 2018-09-18 22:10 +0000
                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-18 16:20 -0700
                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-09-17 17:27 +0000
                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2018-09-17 08:22 +0200
                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-09-16 23:58 -0700
                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-17 14:01 -0700
                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-17 14:45 -0700
                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-09-17 22:13 +0000
                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-17 17:10 -0700
                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-18 08:43 -0700
                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-18 09:39 -0700
                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-18 09:51 -0700
                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-18 10:59 -0700
                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-18 13:23 -0700
                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-18 13:36 -0700
                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@notmail.com> - 2018-09-18 22:42 +0200
                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-18 21:55 +0000
                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-19 09:14 -0700
                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-19 23:17 +0000
                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-20 07:28 -0700
                                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-20 19:36 +0000
                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-21 11:26 -0700
                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2018-09-21 12:46 -0700
                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2018-09-18 22:38 +0200
                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-18 14:23 -0700
                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-18 22:12 +0000
                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-19 09:45 -0700
                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-19 23:33 +0000
                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-20 07:59 -0700
                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-20 08:34 -0700
                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2018-09-20 12:11 -0700
                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-09-21 14:55 +0000
                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-09-21 09:48 -0700
                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-20 20:03 +0000
                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Stakos Netakis <autp@wsalaws.np> - 2018-09-20 20:44 +0000
                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-20 13:44 -0700
                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-20 23:23 +0000
                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Stakos Netakis <autp@wsalaws.np> - 2018-09-21 09:29 +0000
                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-21 06:57 -0700
                                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2018-09-21 07:28 -0700
                                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-21 10:54 -0700
                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2018-09-19 15:05 +0200
                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-09-19 07:04 -0700
                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-19 07:46 -0700
                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-09-19 09:42 -0700
                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-19 09:57 -0700
                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-17 16:35 +0000
                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-17 14:31 -0700
                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Stakos Netakis <autp@wsalaw.oa> - 2018-09-17 21:40 +0000
                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-18 08:18 -0700
                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Stakos Netakis <autp@wsalaw.oa> - 2018-09-18 22:15 +0000
                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-19 09:47 -0700
                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Stakos Netakis <autp@wsalaw.oa> - 2018-09-19 22:09 +0000
                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-09-17 15:37 -0700
                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-18 09:12 -0700
                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-18 17:26 +0000
                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-18 13:16 -0700
                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-18 21:47 +0000
                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-09-19 03:15 -0700
                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2018-09-18 17:57 -0700
                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-09-18 02:40 +0000
          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-15 23:34 +0000
            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Stakos Netakis <autp@wsalaw.oa> - 2018-09-16 10:09 +0000
            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-16 09:04 -0700
          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-09-17 06:19 -0700
            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-17 14:10 -0700
              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-09-17 15:23 -0700
                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-18 09:01 -0700
                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2018-09-18 11:58 -0700
                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-09-18 12:33 -0700
          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-09-20 01:09 -0700
    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-27 10:00 -0700
      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Hilton Packett <wod@wcothr.ce> - 2018-09-27 23:03 +0000
        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-28 07:29 -0700
          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-28 17:22 +0000
            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Hilton Packett <wod@wcothr.ce> - 2018-09-29 09:12 +0000
          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-09-28 10:33 -0700
          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Hilton Packett <wod@wcothr.ce> - 2018-09-28 20:20 +0000

Page 23 of 31 — ← Prev page 1 … 21 22 [23] 24 25 … 31  Next page →


#473643

FromThomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de>
Date2018-10-01 04:10 +0200
Message-ID<4ae30e9c-6b0c-c45a-a22c-a59f9783bcaa@PointedEars.de>
In reply to#473615
Ed Lake wrote:
> On Sunday, September 30, 2018 at 3:05:46 PM UTC-5, Paparios wrote:
>> El domingo, 30 de septiembre de 2018, 16:54:04 (UTC-3), Ed Lake  escribió:
>>> We're talking about what college textbooks use as Einstein's postulates..
>> No, we are talking about what are Einstein's two postulates/principles and
>> you, Edward Lake, are the one expressing that those definitions at section 2
>> of his On the Electrodynamics of Moving Bodies, are not the definitions of
>> those two  Einstein postulates/principles.
>>
>> You are proving every and each day you understand nothing of this. You are
>> full of smoke!!!!
> 
> Just to show who is "full of smoke," I looked at those principles which you 
> BELIEVE 

You are projecting.  *You* are the believer here.  Most other people,
including “Paparios” and me, *know* what they are talking about.

> are Einstein's postulates and noted that the first one contains an 
> unusual phrase: "translatory motion."

Argument from ignorance.  It is only unusual to someone who does not know
what it means.  Einstein wrote this paper with fellow physicists as his
intended audience, not the general public.

”translatory” is the adjective to the noun *translation*, which in physics
means shifting position along a straight line.

This is contrasted with *rotation*, which is shifting position around a
point, called the center, so that the distance from that point remains
constant (r = const.), but the angle between the position and the center,
and another straight line through the center, does not (α → β, α ≠ β).


        (1)---------->(2)

           Translation


               (1)
            .  ':'  .
         '      :      `
       '      r          `
      '         :--.      '
     .          : α :      .
     : β        +-------------
     v          :\	   '
      .         : center  .
       .      r :        .
         .      :      .   __
            '  .:.  '     |PE
               (2)

             Rotation


IOW, “translatory motion” simply means “motion in a straight line”.

> So I did a search through the 13 text books I listed above looking for that 
> phrase.  IT DOES NOT APPEAR IN ANY OF THE BOOKS.  

There are different ways to say the same thing, that is why it does not occur.

> It is OBVIOUS from looking at those items that they are NOT Einstein's 
> postulates. 

No, that is _not_ obvious.  You have to read *comprehensively*, you have to
obtain the *meaning* of a statement; not compare statements word-by-word.

> This argument has gone beyond absurd.

Indeed it has.  You are now claiming that if a person says something else
than another, it cannot possibly be that they *mean* the same thing.

Do you need an example that shows why your claim is wrong, or can you find
it out for yourself?

-- 
PointedEars

Twitter: @PointedEars2
Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.

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#473594

From"Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net>
Date2018-09-30 11:18 -0700
Message-ID<fb4ef2ca-72db-4146-b22d-8f88bfe262c8@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#473584
On Sunday, September 30, 2018 at 10:21:46 AM UTC-7, Ed Lake wrote:
> You guys are just plain loony. 

Talking to your mirror again, Ed? 

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#473607

FromEd Lake <detect@newsguy.com>
Date2018-09-30 13:12 -0700
Message-ID<3afdd117-d81f-426c-ab78-310a13708061@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#473584
On Sunday, September 30, 2018 at 12:21:46 PM UTC-5, Ed Lake wrote:
> You guys are just plain loony.  You are making stuff up as you go along.  
> 
> Paparios absurdly argues that Einstein’s postulates are at the top of page 4 
> of Einstein’s 1905 paper “On The Electrodynamics of Moving Bodies,” and 
> everyone suddenly agrees with him, even though the word “postulate” is never 
> used on that page.  It is only used on page 1.  The paper is here: https://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/einstein/specrel/specrel.pdf
> 
> What do college text books use as Einstein’s Postulates?  I have dozens in my 
> library.  
> 
> This is from page 1218 of an MIT text book, “University Physics with Modern 
> Physics - 14th ed” by Hugh D. Young & Roger A. Freedman:
> 
> "Einstein’s first postulate, called the principle of relativity, states: The laws of physics are the same in every inertial frame of reference."
> 
> ---
> 
> This is from page 957 of the 4th edition of “Physics for Scientists & Engineers 
> with Modern Physics” by Douglas C. Giancoli:
> 
> "First postulate (the relativity principle): The laws of physics have the same 
> form in all inertial reference frames.
> "The first postulate can also be stated as: There is no experiment you can do 
> in an inertial reference frame to tell if you are at rest or moving uniformly 
> at constant velocity."
> 
> ---
> 
> This is from page 1220 of volume 2 of the 3rd edition of “Physics for Engineers 
> and Scientists” by Hans C. Ohanian, John T. Markert:
> 
> 36.2 EINSTEIN’S PRINCIPLE OF RELATIVITY
> Neither the laws of mechanics nor the laws for the propagation of light reveal 
> any intrinsic distinction between different inertial reference frames. This 
> motivated Einstein to take a bold step and to propose a general hypothesis 
> concerning all the laws of physics. This hypothesis is the Principle of 
> Relativity:
> 
> All the laws of physics are the same in all inertial reference frames. 
> 
> ---
> 
> This is from page 888 of the 9th edition of “College Physics” by Raymond A. 
> Serway & Chris Vuille:
> 
> 1. The principle of relativity: All the laws of physics are the same in all 
> inertial frames. 
> 
> ----
> 
> This is from page 1117 of the 10th edition of “Fundamentals of Physics” by 
> Jearl Walker:
> 
> "We now examine the two postulates of relativity, on which Einstein’s theory 
> is based:
> "1. The Relativity Postulate: The laws of physics are the same for observers 
> in all inertial reference frames. No one frame is preferred over any other.
> 
> ----
> 
> Tom Roberts once recommended a book to me.  It was “Spacetime Physics: An 
> Introduction to Special Relativity” by Edwin F. Taylor & John Archibald 
> Wheeler.  I have the 2nd edition.  On page 55 it has this as Einstein’s...


Here are a few more quotes from textbooks on what Einstein's postulates are:

This is from page 11 of the 6th edition of “Modern Physics,” by Paul A. Tipler and Ralph A. Llewellyn:

"The theory of special relativity was derived from two postulates proposed by
Einstein in his 1905 paper:

Postulate 1. The laws of physics are the same in all inertial reference
frames.

---

This is from page 900 of the 9th edition of “College Physics” by Hugh D. Young:

"Einstein’s principle of relativity is as follows:

"Fundamental Postulate of Special Relativity:

"All the laws of physics, including mechanics and electromagnetism, are the
same in all inertial frames of reference."

-----

This is from page 1-22 of “Fundamentals of Modern Physics” by Peter J. Nolan:

"In 1905, Albert Einstein (1879-1955) formulated his Special or Restricted
Theory of Relativity in terms of two postulates.

"Postulate 1: The laws of physics have the same form in all frames of reference
moving at a constant velocity with respect to one another. This first postulate
is sometimes also stated in the more succinct form: The laws of physics are
invariant to a transformation between all inertial frames."

----

This is from page 510 of “Introduction to Classical Mechanics – with Problems and Solutions” by David Morin:

"There is one more postulate in the Special Relativity theory, namely the 
“relativity” postulate (also called the Principle of Relativity). It is much more
believable than the speed-of-light postulate, so you might just take it for granted
and forget to consider it. But like any postulate, of course, it is crucial. It can be
stated in various ways, but we’ll simply word it as:
• All inertial frames are “equivalent.”

---

This is from pages 1250 and 1251 of the 6th edition of Physics for Scientists 
& Engineers” by  Raymond A. Serway & John W. Jewett:

"Einstein proposed a theory that boldly removed these difficulties and at the 
same time completely altered our notion of space and time.  He based his 
special theory of relativity on two postulates:

1.	The principle of relativity: The laws of physics must be the same in all inertial reference frames."

----

This is from page 17 of “A Prime of Special Relativity” by P. L. Sardesai:

L.T. can be derived on the basis of two postulates or Principles viz. (1) Laws 
of Physics are of the same form in all inertial frames (Principle of Relativity) 

---

This is from page 1113 of “Understanding Physics” by Karen Cummings, Priscilla W. Laws, Edward F. Redish and Patrick J. Cooney:

"He [Einstein] started from a clean assertion that he called the Principle of 
Relativity. Think of an automobile or train either at rest or moving at 
constant velocity. Define each of these enclosures as a reference frame.
Then the Principle of Relativity says:

All the laws of physics are the same in every reference frame.

In other words: Pull down the shades in your room or vehicle.  Then carry 
out as many experiments as you need to create the laws of physics. Someone 
who carries out the same experiments inside another vehicle will discover 
the same laws, as long as this new vehicle moves at a constant velocity 
relative to yours."

-------------------

That is over a dozen textbooks which say that what Einstein wrote on page 1 
of his paper is his postulates.  

I can find NO mention of what he wrote on page 4 as being his postulates. If 
I had the time I'd search for what the books DO say about what's on page 4.

There are probably more books which say the same things as above.  

So, the EVIDENCE says your beliefs about the material on page 4 being 
Einstein's postulates is CONFIRMED to be NONSENSE. 

Ed

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#473613

FromPaparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl>
Date2018-09-30 13:37 -0700
Message-ID<51aada42-371b-4e91-9d9a-6c612fa6e5ef@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#473607
El domingo, 30 de septiembre de 2018, 17:12:09 (UTC-3), Ed Lake  escribió:
> On Sunday, September 30, 2018 at 12:21:46 PM UTC-5, Ed Lake wrote:
 
> > What do college text books use as Einstein’s Postulates?  I have dozens in my 
> > library.  
> > 
> > This is from page 1218 of an MIT text book, “University Physics with Modern 
> > Physics - 14th ed” by Hugh D. Young & Roger A. Freedman:
> > 
> > "Einstein’s first postulate, called the principle of relativity, states: The laws of physics are the same in every inertial frame of reference."
> >
What is the difference with:
 
1. The laws governing the changes of the state of any physical system
   do not depend on which one of two coordinate systems in uniform
   translational motion relative to each other these changes of
   the state are referred to.

> > 
> > This is from page 957 of the 4th edition of “Physics for Scientists & Engineers 
> > with Modern Physics” by Douglas C. Giancoli:
> > 
> > "First postulate (the relativity principle): The laws of physics have the
same form in all inertial reference frames.
> > "The first postulate can also be stated as: There is no experiment you can do 
> > in an inertial reference frame to tell if you are at rest or moving uniformly 
> > at constant velocity."
> > 
What is the difference with:
 
1. The laws governing the changes of the state of any physical system
   do not depend on which one of two coordinate systems in uniform
   translational motion relative to each other these changes of
   the state are referred to.

> > 
> > This is from page 1220 of volume 2 of the 3rd edition of “Physics for Engineers 
> > and Scientists” by Hans C. Ohanian, John T. Markert:
> > 
> > 36.2 EINSTEIN’S PRINCIPLE OF RELATIVITY
> > Neither the laws of mechanics nor the laws for the propagation of light reveal 
> > any intrinsic distinction between different inertial reference frames. This 
> > motivated Einstein to take a bold step and to propose a general hypothesis 
> > concerning all the laws of physics. This hypothesis is the Principle of 
> > Relativity:
> > 
> > All the laws of physics are the same in all inertial reference frames. 
> > 
What is the difference with:
 
1. The laws governing the changes of the state of any physical system
   do not depend on which one of two coordinate systems in uniform
   translational motion relative to each other these changes of
   the state are referred to.

> > 
> > This is from page 888 of the 9th edition of “College Physics” by Raymond A. 
> > Serway & Chris Vuille:
> > 
> > 1. The principle of relativity: All the laws of physics are the same in all 
> > inertial frames. 
> > 
What is the difference with:
 
1. The laws governing the changes of the state of any physical system
   do not depend on which one of two coordinate systems in uniform
   translational motion relative to each other these changes of
   the state are referred to.

> > 
> > This is from page 1117 of the 10th edition of “Fundamentals of Physics” by 
> > Jearl Walker:
> > 
> > "We now examine the two postulates of relativity, on which Einstein’s theory 
> > is based:
> > "1. The Relativity Postulate: The laws of physics are the same for observers 
> > in all inertial reference frames. No one frame is preferred over any other.
> > 
What is the difference with:
 
1. The laws governing the changes of the state of any physical system
   do not depend on which one of two coordinate systems in uniform
   translational motion relative to each other these changes of
   the state are referred to.

 
> Here are a few more quotes from textbooks on what Einstein's postulates are:
> 
> This is from page 11 of the 6th edition of “Modern Physics,” by Paul A. Tipler and Ralph A. Llewellyn:
> 
> "The theory of special relativity was derived from two postulates proposed by
> Einstein in his 1905 paper:
> 
> Postulate 1. The laws of physics are the same in all inertial reference
> frames.
> 
What is the difference with:
 
1. The laws governing the changes of the state of any physical system
   do not depend on which one of two coordinate systems in uniform
   translational motion relative to each other these changes of
   the state are referred to.

> 
> This is from page 900 of the 9th edition of “College Physics” by Hugh D. Young:
> 
> "Einstein’s principle of relativity is as follows:
> 
> "Fundamental Postulate of Special Relativity:
> 
> "All the laws of physics, including mechanics and electromagnetism, are the
> same in all inertial frames of reference."
> 
What is the difference with:
 
1. The laws governing the changes of the state of any physical system
   do not depend on which one of two coordinate systems in uniform
   translational motion relative to each other these changes of
   the state are referred to.

> 
> This is from page 1-22 of “Fundamentals of Modern Physics” by Peter J. Nolan:
> 
> "In 1905, Albert Einstein (1879-1955) formulated his Special or Restricted
> Theory of Relativity in terms of two postulates.
> 
> "Postulate 1: The laws of physics have the same form in all frames of
reference moving at a constant velocity with respect to one another. This first
postulate is sometimes also stated in the more succinct form: The laws of
physics are invariant to a transformation between all inertial frames."
> 
What is the difference with:
 
1. The laws governing the changes of the state of any physical system
   do not depend on which one of two coordinate systems in uniform
   translational motion relative to each other these changes of
   the state are referred to.

> 
> This is from page 510 of “Introduction to Classical Mechanics – with Problems and Solutions” by David Morin:
> 
> "There is one more postulate in the Special Relativity theory, namely the 
> “relativity” postulate (also called the Principle of Relativity). It is much more
> believable than the speed-of-light postulate, so you might just take it for granted
> and forget to consider it. But like any postulate, of course, it is crucial. It can be
> stated in various ways, but we’ll simply word it as:
> • All inertial frames are “equivalent.”
> 
What is the difference with:
 
1. The laws governing the changes of the state of any physical system
   do not depend on which one of two coordinate systems in uniform
   translational motion relative to each other these changes of
   the state are referred to.

> 
> This is from pages 1250 and 1251 of the 6th edition of Physics for Scientists 
> & Engineers” by  Raymond A. Serway & John W. Jewett:
> 
> "Einstein proposed a theory that boldly removed these difficulties and at the 
> same time completely altered our notion of space and time.  He based his 
> special theory of relativity on two postulates:
> 
> 1.	The principle of relativity: The laws of physics must be the same in all inertial reference frames."
> 
What is the difference with:
 
1. The laws governing the changes of the state of any physical system
   do not depend on which one of two coordinate systems in uniform
   translational motion relative to each other these changes of
   the state are referred to.

> 
> This is from page 17 of “A Prime of Special Relativity” by P. L. Sardesai:
> 
> L.T. can be derived on the basis of two postulates or Principles viz. (1) Laws 
> of Physics are of the same form in all inertial frames (Principle of Relativity) 
> 
> ---
> 
> This is from page 1113 of “Understanding Physics” by Karen Cummings, Priscilla W. Laws, Edward F. Redish and Patrick J. Cooney:
> 
> "He [Einstein] started from a clean assertion that he called the Principle of 
> Relativity. Think of an automobile or train either at rest or moving at 
> constant velocity. Define each of these enclosures as a reference frame.
> Then the Principle of Relativity says:
> 
> All the laws of physics are the same in ...

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#473620

FromEd Lake <detect@newsguy.com>
Date2018-09-30 14:26 -0700
Message-ID<fdb9ef43-10eb-4089-8429-e4f7d1316dcb@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#473613
On Sunday, September 30, 2018 at 3:37:22 PM UTC-5, Paparios wrote:
> El domingo, 30 de septiembre de 2018, 17:12:09 (UTC-3), Ed Lake  escribió:
> > On Sunday, September 30, 2018 at 12:21:46 PM UTC-5, Ed Lake wrote:
>  
> > > What do college text books use as Einstein’s Postulates?  I have dozens in my 
> > > library.  
> > > 
> > > This is from page 1218 of an MIT text book, “University Physics with Modern 
> > > Physics - 14th ed” by Hugh D. Young & Roger A. Freedman:
> > > 
> > > "Einstein’s first postulate, called the principle of relativity, states: The laws of physics are the same in every inertial frame of reference."
> > >
> What is the difference with:
>  
> 1. The laws governing the changes of the state of any physical system
>    do not depend on which one of two coordinate systems in uniform
>    translational motion relative to each other these changes of
>    the state are referred to.

Where did that version come from?  It looks like some kind of screwball 
translation.

The version we've been talking about says:

"1. The laws by which the states of physical systems undergo change are not
affected, whether these changes of state be referred to the one or the other of
two systems of co-ordinates in uniform translatory motion."

I found a book that contains your version.  It is here: https://www.ilglifo.it/public/Einstein/Palazzi_Special_Relativity.pdf  
It is titled "Relativity from Lorentz to Einstein - A Guide for Beginners, 
Perplexed and Experimental Scientists" by Alberto Palazzi.

It doesn't look like a college textbook.  It was published in January of 
this year.  I've added it to my collection.  It has Einstein's First 
Postulate on page 100:

"Immediately after, Einstein announces the two hypotheses, or suppositions, or postulates, which he intends to develop. The first hypothesis is what has just been said, that is, “in all coordinate systems in which the mechanical equations are valid, also the same electrodynamic and optical laws are valid.” Einstein assumes it as a postulate."

Your version is on page 132, and is again about the relationship between 
length and time.

So, it shoots down your SCREWBALL BELIEF.

Ed

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#473631

FromPaparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl>
Date2018-09-30 15:30 -0700
Message-ID<8d197781-63d1-4078-9ee6-fb34ca5ed571@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#473620
El domingo, 30 de septiembre de 2018, 18:26:24 (UTC-3), Ed Lake  escribió:
> On Sunday, September 30, 2018 at 3:37:22 PM UTC-5, Paparios wrote:
> > El domingo, 30 de septiembre de 2018, 17:12:09 (UTC-3), Ed Lake  escribió:
> > > On Sunday, September 30, 2018 at 12:21:46 PM UTC-5, Ed Lake wrote:
> >  
> > > > What do college text books use as Einstein’s Postulates?  I have dozens in my 
> > > > library.  
> > > > 
> > > > This is from page 1218 of an MIT text book, “University Physics with Modern 
> > > > Physics - 14th ed” by Hugh D. Young & Roger A. Freedman:
> > > > 
> > > > "Einstein’s first postulate, called the principle of relativity, states: The laws of physics are the same in every inertial frame of reference."
> > > >
> > What is the difference with:
> >  
> > 1. The laws governing the changes of the state of any physical system
> >    do not depend on which one of two coordinate systems in uniform
> >    translational motion relative to each other these changes of
> >    the state are referred to.
> 
> Where did that version come from?  It looks like some kind of screwball 
> translation.
>

Once again you are unable to read the post here.

that is the oficial translation from the Princeton Einstein papers, available
at https://einsteinpapers.press.princeton.edu/vol2-trans/157

That you call this a "srewball translation" speaks volumes about your ignorance.

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#473674

From"Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net>
Date2018-10-01 09:10 -0700
Message-ID<5e2586c6-5353-4dcc-9702-e40063ee058d@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#473631
On Sunday, September 30, 2018 at 3:30:54 PM UTC-7, Paparios wrote:
> 
> That you call this a "srewball translation" speaks volumes about your ignorance.

You have better odds at explaining relativity to your door handle

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#473745

Frommitchrae3323@gmail.com
Date2018-10-01 17:39 -0700
Message-ID<1e5bf39e-8927-4d57-8384-deb8a264ec89@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#473674
On Monday, October 1, 2018 at 9:10:16 AM UTC-7, Dono, wrote:
> On Sunday, September 30, 2018 at 3:30:54 PM UTC-7, Paparios wrote:
> > 
> > That you call this a "srewball translation" speaks volumes about your ignorance.
> 
> You have better odds at explaining relativity to your door handle

The relative is just an opposite appearance made by real motion.
That opposite appearance of motion has no change of position energy.
You could make things heavier by relativity. Where then was Einstein
for motion making all things heavier...?

Mitchell Raemsch

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#473598

FromThomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de>
Date2018-09-30 20:58 +0200
Message-ID<989dc888-ae72-e277-d23b-cba7e9b414e3@PointedEars.de>
In reply to#473557
Paparios wrote:
> El domingo, 30 de septiembre de 2018, 10:40:29 (UTC-3), Paparios  escribió:
>> I have been using the translation published in Fourmilab
>>
>> https://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/einstein/specrel/specrel.pdf
>>
>> which is the first hit when you look in Google for "on the electrodynamics of
>> moving bodies pdf". This is also the source of Lake.
>>
>> Is it possible that the Fourmilab translated text predates the Princenton text?
> 
> Actually, I know the answer, It is right there in the Wikipedia page for
> Special Relativity!

Not only, see my other follow-up.

> The Fourmilab text is the English translation by George Barker Jeffery and
> Wilfrid Perrett (1923).

Probably yes, see my other follow-up.

> So this translation is one of the first translation of Zur Elektrodynamik
> bewegter Körper, predating the Princeton (now Caltech) texts, which were
> published in 2014.

“The Collected Papers of Albert Einstein” were finished, and presumably
first published, in 1989; see my other follow-up.

> They also cite there a previous translation by Megh Nad Saha (1920). […]

_Meghnad_ Saha was an Indian physicist; I have no confidence in the accuracy
of his translation.  See my other follow-up for details.

-- 
PointedEars

Twitter: @PointedEars2
Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.

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#473597

FromThomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de>
Date2018-09-30 20:52 +0200
Message-ID<265389da-fee7-11aa-6b0d-25468db453e0@PointedEars.de>
In reply to#473546
Paparios wrote:
> Thanks Thomas

You’re welcome.  Thank you in advance for not full-quoting again.

> I have been using the translation published in Fourmilab
> 
> https://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/einstein/specrel/specrel.pdf

Yes, I know that one.

> which is the first hit when you look in Google for "on the electrodynamics of
> moving bodies pdf".

And why have you used “pdf” as keyword in the first place?

> This is also the source of Lake.

Yes, unfortunately.  I have used this source before I found “The Collected
Papers of Albert Einstein”, original and translation, digitally available at

<https://einsteinpapers.press.princeton.edu> pp.

IMHO, only that should be used as reference.  Not only is the original
German text there and the translation into English is more accurate; it also
includes all the corrections of his papers, and refutations of criticisms of
relativity, that were published by Einstein.

Finally, it gives a more complete account of Einstein as a scientist *and* a
human being (including letters to fellow scientists), historical background
and commentary, how he arrived at his theories, his scientific convictions,
and how those changed over time.  I think that this helps greatly to reduce
the many misconceptions that many (lay)people, especially those subscribed
to this newsgroup, have (developed) about him.

> Is it possible that the Fourmilab translated text predates the Princenton text?

Yes, it says so in the description:

,-<https://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/einstein/specrel/www/>
|
| This edition of Einstein's On the Electrodynamics of Moving Bodies is
| based on the English translation of his original 1905 German-language
| paper (published as Zur Elektrodynamik bewegter Körper, in Annalen der
| Physik. 17:891, 1905) which appeared in the book The Principle of
| Relativity, published in 1923 by Methuen and Company, Ltd. of London. Most
| of the papers in that collection are English translations by W. Perrett
| and G.B. Jeffery from the German Das Relativatsprinzip, 4th ed., published
| by in 1922 by Tuebner.

vs.

<https://einsteinpapers.press.princeton.edu/vol2-trans/9>
|
| […]
| Princeton University Press
| September 1989

More importantly, though, the “Princeton text” was produced by a
professional, independent translator where there is indication in name and
work that she is a native German speaker (there is another, younger Anna
Beck who is a professional translator, too, and she is a native speaker of
German.  It might be her daughter.)

As a native German speaker, fluent in English, having completed a Stanford
online course on the basics of special relativity, and studying astrophysics
at a university, I think I am in a good position to vouch for the accuracy
of the Beck translation (at least of OEDoMB) with regard to the original
German text.

By contrast, it is obvious that other "translations" even change the meaning
of the Einstein’s words; for example Saha’s into English (that can be found
on Wikisource) does (despite what is claimed there).  I assume that Saha, as
he was an Indian physicist, while he had the professional knowledge, was
neither a native speaker of German nor of English.  Saha’s version also has
omissions compared to the German original (which are mentioned on Wikisource):

<https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/On_the_Electrodynamics_of_Moving_Bodies_(1920_edition)>

-- 
PointedEars

Twitter: @PointedEars2
Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.

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#473482

Frommoroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)
Date2018-09-29 20:53 +0000
Message-ID<poooo6$auh$1@pcls7.std.com>
In reply to#473474
Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> writes:

>On Saturday, September 29, 2018 at 1:04:37 PM UTC-5, Paparios wrote:

>The word "postulate" does NOT appear anywhere else in his paper.

>Einstein's First Postulate, therefore, is:

>"the same laws of electrodynamics and optics will be valid for all frames of
>reference for which the equations of mechanics hold good."

>And Einstein' Second Postulate is:

>"light is always propagated in empty space with a definite velocity c which
> is independent of the state of motion of the emitting body."

>Wild INTERPRETATIONS that those are NOT Einstein's postulates,

So when Einstein wrote "1. The laws by which the states of physical
systems undergo change are not affected, whether these changes of state be
referred to the one or the other of two systems of co-ordinates in uniform
translatory motion. 2. Any ray of light moves in the 'stationary' system
of co-ordinates with the determined velocity c, whether the ray be emitted
by a stationary or by a moving body.", you are claiming Einstein was
making WILD INTERPRETATIONS of what Einstein wrote?

Speaking of WILD INTERPRETATIONS, you should quit making them yourself.

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#473488

FromEd Lake <detect@newsguy.com>
Date2018-09-29 14:20 -0700
Message-ID<6b9db257-72cb-4263-941c-a72586ed64d3@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#473482
On Saturday, September 29, 2018 at 3:53:28 PM UTC-5, Michael Moroney wrote:
> Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> writes:
> 
> >On Saturday, September 29, 2018 at 1:04:37 PM UTC-5, Paparios wrote:
> 
> >The word "postulate" does NOT appear anywhere else in his paper.
> 
> >Einstein's First Postulate, therefore, is:
> 
> >"the same laws of electrodynamics and optics will be valid for all frames of
> >reference for which the equations of mechanics hold good."
> 
> >And Einstein' Second Postulate is:
> 
> >"light is always propagated in empty space with a definite velocity c which
> > is independent of the state of motion of the emitting body."
> 
> >Wild INTERPRETATIONS that those are NOT Einstein's postulates,
> 
> So when Einstein wrote "1. The laws by which the states of physical
> systems undergo change are not affected, whether these changes of state be
> referred to the one or the other of two systems of co-ordinates in uniform
> translatory motion. 2. Any ray of light moves in the 'stationary' system
> of co-ordinates with the determined velocity c, whether the ray be emitted
> by a stationary or by a moving body.", you are claiming Einstein was
> making WILD INTERPRETATIONS of what Einstein wrote?
> 
> Speaking of WILD INTERPRETATIONS, you should quit making them yourself.

Einstein was trying to explain something.  So, he created two POSTULATES, 
which are things ASSUMED for the sake of discussion.  What he wanted to 
discuss was "a simple and consistent theory of the electrodynamics of moving 
bodies based on Maxwell’s theory for stationary bodies."

His new theory did "not require an 'absolutely stationary space' provided with special properties."  It's a theory based upon the movement of objects.  

It's a theory that says time moves at different rates for objects moving 
at different speeds.  So, you do not NEED any "absolutely stationary space" 
to measure movement from.  You can measure movement by the different rates 
at which time passes for different objects. 

What he says much later in his paper doesn't change anything.

Ed

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#473493

Frommoroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)
Date2018-09-29 21:32 +0000
Message-ID<poor1j$2op$1@pcls7.std.com>
In reply to#473488
Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> writes:

>On Saturday, September 29, 2018 at 3:53:28 PM UTC-5, Michael Moroney wrote:

>> So when Einstein wrote "1. The laws by which the states of physical
>> systems undergo change are not affected, whether these changes of state be
>> referred to the one or the other of two systems of co-ordinates in uniform
>> translatory motion. 2. Any ray of light moves in the 'stationary' system
>> of co-ordinates with the determined velocity c, whether the ray be emitted
>> by a stationary or by a moving body.", you are claiming Einstein was
>> making WILD INTERPRETATIONS of what Einstein wrote?

>> Speaking of WILD INTERPRETATIONS, you should quit making them yourself.

>It's a theory that says time moves at different rates for objects moving
>at different speeds.

Again: Speaking of WILD INTERPRETATIONS, you should quit making them yourself.

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#473870

FromRichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com>
Date2018-10-02 17:14 -0700
Message-ID<72b9ba66-d934-4180-a504-37168d73cd72@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#473488
On September 29, Ed Lake wrote:
> His new theory did "not require an 'absolutely stationary space' 
> provided with special properties."  It's a theory based upon the 
> movement of objects.   
> It's a theory that says time moves at different rates for objects 
> moving at different speeds.  So, you do not NEED any "absolutely 
> stationary space" to measure movement from.  You can measure 
> movement by the different rates at which time passes for different objects. 

Ed, pop quiz:

I)  You're aboard the International Space Station, a 
satellite, all jets off.  There are no windows.  In the 
weaker gravity, time has contracted, has it not?  So, how 
would you determine the faster rate of time, and your 
velocity, totally within the ship?  What tests?

II)  A rogue Klingon ship passes near earth.  Spitefully, 
he hits you with a phasor beam, stopping the Space 
Station in its tracks.  You free fall, straight toward 
earth's center.  You certainly feel the initial shock, 
but following that, how would you determine your 
velocity, and your altitude, and the time dilation? 

III)  A well opens in the ground, directly below 
(another dastardly Klingon trick).  It drills all 
the way through the earth, a complete vacuum.  As 
you traverse the surface, the force of gravity weakens, 
therefore time contracts, and you decelerate.  Again, 
how do you determine your velocity, and rate of time?

IV)  At the center, gravity force drops to zero, 
so you halt, hence time flies at its maximum.  How 
do you determine this, and your state of rest?


--
Rich

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#473935

FromEd Lake <detect@newsguy.com>
Date2018-10-03 07:10 -0700
Message-ID<c28c1c08-6297-44a8-aa07-2ab3822937d0@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#473870
On Tuesday, October 2, 2018 at 7:14:06 PM UTC-5, RichD wrote:
> On September 29, Ed Lake wrote:
> > His new theory did "not require an 'absolutely stationary space' 
> > provided with special properties."  It's a theory based upon the 
> > movement of objects.   
> > It's a theory that says time moves at different rates for objects 
> > moving at different speeds.  So, you do not NEED any "absolutely 
> > stationary space" to measure movement from.  You can measure 
> > movement by the different rates at which time passes for different objects. 
> 
> Ed, pop quiz:
> 
> I)  You're aboard the International Space Station, a 
> satellite, all jets off.  There are no windows.  In the 
> weaker gravity, time has contracted, has it not?  So, how 
> would you determine the faster rate of time, and your 
> velocity, totally within the ship?  What tests?

There is no test to determine your rate of time within a location.  You can 
only determine your rate of time by comparing it to the rate of time in 
another location (frame of reference).

> 
> II)  A rogue Klingon ship passes near earth.  Spitefully, 
> he hits you with a phasor beam, stopping the Space 
> Station in its tracks.  You free fall, straight toward 
> earth's center.  You certainly feel the initial shock, 
> but following that, how would you determine your 
> velocity, and your altitude, and the time dilation? 

There is no test to determine your rate of time within a location.  You can 
only determine your rate of time by comparing it to the rate of time in 
another location (frame of reference).

> 
> III)  A well opens in the ground, directly below 
> (another dastardly Klingon trick).  It drills all 
> the way through the earth, a complete vacuum.  As 
> you traverse the surface, the force of gravity weakens, 
> therefore time contracts, and you decelerate.  Again, 
> how do you determine your velocity, and rate of time?

There is no test to determine your rate of time within a location.  You can 
only determine your rate of time by comparing it to the rate of time in 
another location (frame of reference).

> 
> IV)  At the center, gravity force drops to zero, 
> so you halt, hence time flies at its maximum.  How 
> do you determine this, and your state of rest?

There is no test to determine your rate of time within a location.  You can 
only determine your rate of time by comparing it to the rate of time in 
another location (frame of reference).

The principle of relativity says that inside a frame of reference you cannot 
tell that your clock is running fast or slow. I.e., "the same laws of 
electrodynamics and optics will be valid for all frames of reference for which 
the equations of mechanics hold good."

BUT, if you compare your rate of time on the ISS to the the rate of time on 
the ground, you CAN tell that your clock is running at a different rate 
(a rate that depends upon your altitude and velocity).

Ed

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#473937

FromEd Lake <detect@newsguy.com>
Date2018-10-03 07:28 -0700
Message-ID<d5380745-0f86-4acc-b805-60cda13798ea@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#473935
On Wednesday, October 3, 2018 at 9:10:41 AM UTC-5, Ed Lake wrote:
> On Tuesday, October 2, 2018 at 7:14:06 PM UTC-5, RichD wrote:
> > On September 29, Ed Lake wrote:
> > > His new theory did "not require an 'absolutely stationary space' 
> > > provided with special properties."  It's a theory based upon the 
> > > movement of objects.   
> > > It's a theory that says time moves at different rates for objects 
> > > moving at different speeds.  So, you do not NEED any "absolutely 
> > > stationary space" to measure movement from.  You can measure 
> > > movement by the different rates at which time passes for different objects. 
> > 
> > Ed, pop quiz:
> > 
> > I)  You're aboard the International Space Station, a 
> > satellite, all jets off.  There are no windows.  In the 
> > weaker gravity, time has contracted, has it not?  So, how 
> > would you determine the faster rate of time, and your 
> > velocity, totally within the ship?  What tests?
> 
> There is no test to determine your rate of time within a location.  You can 
> only determine your rate of time by comparing it to the rate of time in 
> another location (frame of reference).
> 
> > 
> > II)  A rogue Klingon ship passes near earth.  Spitefully, 
> > he hits you with a phasor beam, stopping the Space 
> > Station in its tracks.  You free fall, straight toward 
> > earth's center.  You certainly feel the initial shock, 
> > but following that, how would you determine your 
> > velocity, and your altitude, and the time dilation? 
> 
> There is no test to determine your rate of time within a location.  You can 
> only determine your rate of time by comparing it to the rate of time in 
> another location (frame of reference).
> 
> > 
> > III)  A well opens in the ground, directly below 
> > (another dastardly Klingon trick).  It drills all 
> > the way through the earth, a complete vacuum.  As 
> > you traverse the surface, the force of gravity weakens, 
> > therefore time contracts, and you decelerate.  Again, 
> > how do you determine your velocity, and rate of time?
> 
> There is no test to determine your rate of time within a location.  You can 
> only determine your rate of time by comparing it to the rate of time in 
> another location (frame of reference).
> 
> > 
> > IV)  At the center, gravity force drops to zero, 
> > so you halt, hence time flies at its maximum.  How 
> > do you determine this, and your state of rest?
> 
> There is no test to determine your rate of time within a location.  You can 
> only determine your rate of time by comparing it to the rate of time in 
> another location (frame of reference).
> 
> The principle of relativity says that inside a frame of reference you cannot 
> tell that your clock is running fast or slow. I.e., "the same laws of 
> electrodynamics and optics will be valid for all frames of reference for which 
> the equations of mechanics hold good."
> 
> BUT, if you compare your rate of time on the ISS to the the rate of time on 
> the ground, you CAN tell that your clock is running at a different rate 
> (a rate that depends upon your altitude and velocity).
> 
> Ed

Here's a web site that explains the situation: https://ideonexus.com/2009/02/17/how-much-does-time-dilate-for-the-iss-astronauts/

It says "The ISS orbits 255 miles above the Earth at 8000 m/s, so time runs 
approximately 0.0000000014 percent slower" than on the surface of the earth.

Here's another web site that explains the situation: https://www.businessinsider.com/do-astronauts-age-slower-than-people-on-earth-2015-8

It says,

"They're floating about 260 miles above, where Earth's gravitational pull is 
weaker than it is at the surface. That means time should speed up for them 
relative to people on the ground. But the space station is also whizzing around 
Earth at about nearly five miles per second: 

"That means time should also slow down for the astronauts relative to people on 
the surface.

"You'd think that might even out, but actually their velocity time dilation has 
a bigger effect than their gravitational time dilation, so astronauts end up 
aging slower than people on Earth.

"The difference isn't noticeable though — after spending six months on the ISS, 
astronauts have aged about 0.005 seconds less than the rest of us. That means 
when astronaut Scott Kelly gets back from his year-long stay on the ISS, he'll 
technically be 0.01 second younger than his twin brother Mark Kelly who stayed 
on Earth."

Ed 

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#473940

FromPaparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl>
Date2018-10-03 07:42 -0700
Message-ID<a505a86a-2e6f-4da1-ae0e-b5ae400b3e70@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#473937
El miércoles, 3 de octubre de 2018, 11:29:02 (UTC-3), Ed Lake  escribió:

> 
> Here's a web site that explains the situation: https://ideonexus.com/2009/02/17/how-much-does-time-dilate-for-the-iss-astronauts/
> 
> It says "The ISS orbits 255 miles above the Earth at 8000 m/s, so time runs 
> approximately 0.0000000014 percent slower" than on the surface of the earth.
> 

Notice the article correctly says "so TIME runs...slower". Nothing there about
a clock ticking slower!!!!

> Here's another web site that explains the situation: https://www.businessinsider.com/do-astronauts-age-slower-than-people-on-earth-2015-8
> 
> It says,
> 
> "They're floating about 260 miles above, where Earth's gravitational pull is 
> weaker than it is at the surface. That means time should speed up for them 
> relative to people on the ground. But the space station is also whizzing around 
> Earth at about nearly five miles per second: 
> 
> "That means time should also slow down for the astronauts relative to people on 
> the surface.
> 
> "You'd think that might even out, but actually their velocity time dilation has 
> a bigger effect than their gravitational time dilation, so astronauts end up 
> aging slower than people on Earth.
> 
> "The difference isn't noticeable though — after spending six months on the ISS, 
> astronauts have aged about 0.005 seconds less than the rest of us. That means 
> when astronaut Scott Kelly gets back from his year-long stay on the ISS, he'll 
> technically be 0.01 second younger than his twin brother Mark Kelly who stayed 
> on Earth."
> 
> Ed

Again, the article is correct: "astronauts have aged about 0.005 seconds less
than the rest of us". They are correctly expressing that TIME changes. There
is nothing related to the rates of clocks there.

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#473943

FromEd Lake <detect@newsguy.com>
Date2018-10-03 08:21 -0700
Message-ID<55671646-3297-43b1-a839-123852c722dc@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#473940
On Wednesday, October 3, 2018 at 9:42:36 AM UTC-5, Paparios wrote:
> El miércoles, 3 de octubre de 2018, 11:29:02 (UTC-3), Ed Lake  escribió:
> 
> > 
> > Here's a web site that explains the situation: https://ideonexus.com/2009/02/17/how-much-does-time-dilate-for-the-iss-astronauts/
> > 
> > It says "The ISS orbits 255 miles above the Earth at 8000 m/s, so time runs 
> > approximately 0.0000000014 percent slower" than on the surface of the earth.
> > 
> 
> Notice the article correctly says "so TIME runs...slower". Nothing there about
> a clock ticking slower!!!!

Clocks measure time.  When time runs slower, clocks run slower.

Here's another link for you: http://www.astronomy.ohio-state.edu/~pogge/Ast162/Unit5/gps.html

It says this about GPS satellites:

"Special Relativity predicts that the on-board atomic clocks on the satellites 
should fall behind clocks on the ground by about 7 microseconds per day because 
of the slower ticking rate due to the time dilation effect of their relative 
motion [2].

"Further, the satellites are in orbits high above the Earth, where the curvature 
of spacetime due to the Earth's mass is less than it is at the Earth's surface. 
A prediction of General Relativity is that clocks closer to a massive object 
will seem to tick more slowly than those located further away (see the Black 
Holes lecture). As such, when viewed from the surface of the Earth, the clocks 
on the satellites appear to be ticking faster than identical clocks on the 
ground. A calculation using General Relativity predicts that the clocks in each 
GPS satellite should get ahead of ground-based clocks by 45 microseconds per 
day.

"The combination of these two relativistic effects means that the clocks 
on-board each satellite should tick faster than identical clocks on the ground 
by about 38 microseconds per day (45-7=38)!"

Because GPS clocks would tick at a different rate than earth clocks,

"The engineers who designed the GPS system included these relativistic effects 
when they designed and deployed the system. For example, to counteract the 
General Relativistic effect once on orbit, the onboard clocks were designed to 
"tick" at a slower frequency than ground reference clocks, so that once they 
were in their proper orbit stations their clocks would appear to tick at about 
the correct rate as compared to the reference atomic clocks at the GPS ground 
stations."

In other words, when the GPS clocks were built, they were built to run 38 
microseconds slower than other clocks on earth.  That way, when they clocks 
are put into orbit, they tick at the SAME rate as clocks on Earth.

Ed

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#473955

FromPaparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl>
Date2018-10-03 08:52 -0700
Message-ID<98b44e19-060e-4004-8a52-b892b9edf83f@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#473943
El miércoles, 3 de octubre de 2018, 12:21:53 (UTC-3), Ed Lake  escribió:
> On Wednesday, October 3, 2018 at 9:42:36 AM UTC-5, Paparios wrote:
> > El miércoles, 3 de octubre de 2018, 11:29:02 (UTC-3), Ed Lake  escribió:
> > 
> > > 
> > > Here's a web site that explains the situation: https://ideonexus.com/2009/02/17/how-much-does-time-dilate-for-the-iss-astronauts/
> > > 
> > > It says "The ISS orbits 255 miles above the Earth at 8000 m/s, so time runs 
> > > approximately 0.0000000014 percent slower" than on the surface of the earth.
> > > 
> > 
> > Notice the article correctly says "so TIME runs...slower". Nothing there about
> > a clock ticking slower!!!!
> 
> Clocks measure time.  When time runs slower, clocks run slower.
>

Sure enough and you have it expressed correctly. You see Edward, you tend to
assign more relevance to the clock than what that clock is measuring, that is 
time. Einstein main contribution was to express that time, as well as space,
were all variables dependent on the frame of reference from where they are
measured.

If you can set aside that bias and adopt what you wrote above (When time runs
slower, clocks run slower), you will be much closer to understand what
relativity deals with.

So in the GPS system, the atomic clocks that are inside the satellites, are
measuring the elapsed time AT THE ORBIT of the satellites, and that time
effectively is changed both by the orbital speeds of the satellites and by
the gravity at their orbits so TIME runs 38 microseconds per sidereal day
faster than the atomic clocks at the ground.

It is time what it is affected and not the ticking of the clocks. The
accurate ticking of the atomic clocks is what allows to measure TIME with
the needed precission.

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#473963

Frommlwozniak@wp.pl
Date2018-10-03 09:14 -0700
Message-ID<1f19a2a3-3c29-4518-bb4a-d3c0ae46b6e0@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#473955
On Wednesday, 3 October 2018 17:53:02 UTC+2, Paparios  wrote:

> So in the GPS system, the atomic clocks that are inside the satellites, are
> measuring the elapsed time AT THE ORBIT of the satellites, and that time
> effectively is changed both by the orbital speeds of the satellites and by
> the gravity at their orbits so TIME runs 38 microseconds per sidereal day
> faster than the atomic clocks at the ground.


A lie, as expected from fanatic trash. Any
look in th docimmentation shows that in GPS
common time is elapsed for ground base and 
the satellites.

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