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Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #470837 > unrolled thread

Time Dilation as I understand it

Started byEd Lake <detect@newsguy.com>
First post2018-09-07 09:57 -0700
Last post2018-09-28 20:20 +0000
Articles 20 on this page of 617 — 34 participants

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Contents

  Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-07 09:57 -0700
    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-07 12:54 -0700
      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@notmail.com> - 2018-09-07 23:40 +0200
        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-07 15:38 -0700
        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-09-07 21:40 -0700
        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Lorent Regoire <euar@ewghwpq.gr> - 2018-09-08 11:33 +0000
    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-09-08 14:26 -0500
      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-08 12:47 -0700
        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-09-08 20:06 +0000
        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-08 22:11 +0200
        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-08 20:33 +0000
          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-08 14:09 -0700
            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-08 23:47 +0200
            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-09-08 14:47 -0700
            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-08 21:59 +0000
              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2018-09-08 18:21 -0700
              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-09 10:20 -0700
                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-09-09 11:46 -0700
                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-09 12:32 -0700
                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-09-09 13:37 -0700
                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-09-09 14:49 -0700
                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-10 07:56 -0700
                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2018-09-09 13:26 -0700
                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-09 13:57 -0700
                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-09-09 21:11 +0000
                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2018-09-09 14:33 -0700
                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-09-11 12:39 -0700
                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-12 06:53 -0700
                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-09 20:33 +0000
                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-09 14:49 -0700
                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-10 03:40 +0000
                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-10 07:48 -0700
                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-10 16:06 +0000
                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-10 09:43 -0700
                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Wilbur Foley <boue@eywffl.uf> - 2018-09-10 16:45 +0000
                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-10 09:52 -0700
                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-10 17:50 +0000
                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-10 17:46 +0000
                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-10 13:29 -0700
                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-09-11 10:10 -0700
                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-11 14:05 -0700
                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-09-12 06:59 -0700
                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-12 09:22 -0700
                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-09-12 11:06 -0700
                                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Wilbur Foley <boue@eywffl.uf> - 2018-09-12 18:09 +0000
                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-12 14:40 -0700
                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Stakos Netakis <autp@wsalaw.oa> - 2018-09-18 22:04 +0000
                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-19 09:33 -0700
                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Stakos Netakis <autp@wsalaw.oa> - 2018-09-19 17:31 +0000
                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-19 12:16 -0700
                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-19 13:46 -0700
                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Stakos Netakis <autp@wsalaw.oa> - 2018-09-19 21:58 +0000
                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-20 07:11 -0700
                                                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Stakos Netakis <autp@wsalaws.np> - 2018-09-20 15:20 +0000
                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-19 23:36 +0000
                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Stakos Netakis <autp@wsalaws.np> - 2018-09-20 16:22 +0000
                                                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Jayson Durante <tug@wsedwsa.np> - 2018-09-20 17:40 +0000
                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-09-13 07:36 -0700
                                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-12 14:35 -0700
                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-12 15:10 -0700
                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2018-09-13 08:14 -0700
                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-09-13 08:36 -0700
                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2018-09-13 09:24 -0700
                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2018-09-13 10:42 -0700
                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-13 09:49 -0700
                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2018-09-13 12:55 -0700
                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-13 13:37 -0700
                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2018-09-15 11:36 -0700
                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2018-09-15 12:59 -0700
                                                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Stakos Netakis <autp@wsalaw.oa> - 2018-09-15 20:43 +0000
                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-15 12:54 -0700
                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-15 14:36 -0700
                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-16 08:34 -0700
                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-16 16:37 -0700
                                                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-09-16 23:06 -0700
                                                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-17 09:49 -0700
                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-15 12:34 -0700
                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-09-15 12:49 -0700
                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-15 22:52 +0200
                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Stakos Netakis <autp@wsalaw.oa> - 2018-09-15 21:03 +0000
                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-09-15 22:58 -0700
                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Stakos Netakis <autp@wsalaw.oa> - 2018-09-16 10:10 +0000
                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-15 14:31 -0700
                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Stakos Netakis <autp@wsalaw.oa> - 2018-09-15 21:42 +0000
                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-09-15 23:01 -0700
                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-16 08:22 -0700
                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-16 16:23 -0700
                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-09-13 07:56 -0700
                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-15 12:49 -0700
                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-15 23:43 +0000
                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-16 09:28 -0700
                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-16 17:08 +0000
                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-16 10:56 -0700
                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-09-15 19:03 -0700
                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-09-17 06:03 -0700
                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-11 19:19 +0000
                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-11 15:03 -0700
                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-09-11 16:37 -0700
                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-12 07:24 -0700
                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-12 07:50 +0200
                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-12 06:18 +0000
                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-12 08:44 -0700
                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-09-12 09:28 -0700
                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-12 09:29 -0700
                                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-12 09:52 -0700
                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-12 10:10 -0700
                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-12 10:18 -0700
                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Wilbur Foley <boue@eywffl.uf> - 2018-09-12 18:06 +0000
                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-12 14:16 -0700
                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-12 15:03 -0700
                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-15 12:22 -0700
                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-15 14:21 -0700
                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Stakos Netakis <autp@wsalaw.oa> - 2018-09-15 21:28 +0000
                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-16 08:13 -0700
                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-15 23:54 +0000
                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-16 09:37 -0700
                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-09-12 10:48 -0700
                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-09-12 10:58 -0700
                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-12 18:42 +0000
                                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-09-12 23:31 -0700
                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-09-11 23:41 -0700
                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-09-11 12:57 -0700
                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-11 13:24 -0700
                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-09-11 12:49 -0700
                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Wilbur Foley <boue@eywffl.uf> - 2018-09-11 20:10 +0000
                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-09-11 14:59 -0700
                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Wilbur Foley <boue@eywffl.uf> - 2018-09-11 22:28 +0000
                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-09-11 16:25 -0700
            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-09-08 22:43 +0000
            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-09-10 10:15 -0700
              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-10 12:59 -0700
                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-09-11 09:56 -0700
                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-11 13:55 -0700
                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-09-11 13:57 -0700
            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-09-11 12:29 -0700
              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-12 06:53 -0700
            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-09-17 13:48 -0500
              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Stakos Netakis <autp@wsalaw.oa> - 2018-09-17 20:05 +0000
              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-18 08:15 -0700
        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@notmail.com> - 2018-09-08 22:43 +0200
        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-09-11 12:21 -0700
          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-12 06:52 -0700
      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Lorent Regoires <ewab@ewgvpq.gn> - 2018-09-09 11:16 +0000
        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-09 13:56 +0200
          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Lorent Regoires <ewab@ewgvpq.gn> - 2018-09-09 12:01 +0000
            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-09 14:19 +0200
              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Lorent Regoires <ewab@ewgvpq.gn> - 2018-09-09 12:48 +0000
                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-09 14:24 +0000
                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-11 23:52 +0200
                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Wilbur Foley <boue@eywffl.uf> - 2018-09-11 22:26 +0000
                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-12 07:54 +0200
    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-13 10:02 -0700
      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Wilbur Foley <boue@eywffl.uf> - 2018-09-13 17:03 +0000
      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@notmail.com> - 2018-09-15 18:38 +0200
      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-15 12:56 -0700
        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-15 13:12 -0700
          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-09-15 13:35 -0700
          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-15 13:58 -0700
            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Stakos Netakis <autp@wsalaw.oa> - 2018-09-15 21:08 +0000
            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-16 07:29 -0700
              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-16 08:14 -0700
                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-16 09:51 -0700
                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-16 10:13 -0700
                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@notmail.com> - 2018-09-16 19:42 +0200
                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Stakos Netakis <autp@wsalaw.oa> - 2018-09-16 18:01 +0000
              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-16 10:02 -0700
                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-16 10:27 -0700
                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-16 10:55 -0700
                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-16 11:04 -0700
                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-16 12:59 -0700
                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-09-16 13:11 -0700
                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-09-16 13:28 -0700
                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-16 17:22 -0700
                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-16 16:46 -0700
                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-17 09:53 -0700
                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-17 10:06 -0700
                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-17 14:40 -0700
                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-17 14:44 -0700
                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Stakos Netakis <autp@wsalaw.oa> - 2018-09-17 21:45 +0000
                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-17 14:57 -0700
                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-18 08:53 -0700
                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-18 09:46 -0700
                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-18 09:55 -0700
                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@notmail.com> - 2018-09-18 19:41 +0200
                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Stakos Netakis <autp@wsalaw.oa> - 2018-09-18 22:09 +0000
                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-18 11:01 -0700
                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-09-18 11:24 -0700
                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-18 13:27 -0700
                                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-18 13:58 -0700
                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-09-18 14:10 -0700
                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@notmail.com> - 2018-09-18 23:19 +0200
                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-18 22:03 +0000
                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-19 09:21 -0700
                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-19 23:29 +0000
                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-20 07:53 -0700
                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@notmail.com> - 2018-09-20 17:47 +0200
                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Stakos Netakis <autp@wsalaws.np> - 2018-09-20 16:30 +0000
                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-20 09:34 -0700
                                                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2018-09-20 12:06 -0700
                                                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-20 13:08 -0700
                                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2018-09-20 17:19 -0700
                                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-20 18:30 -0700
                                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-20 23:33 +0000
                                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-21 11:55 -0700
                                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-21 10:52 -0700
                                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2018-09-21 23:08 -0700
                                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Rhett Joyner <udof@rsrrfirv.on> - 2018-09-22 08:17 +0000
                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-20 19:56 +0000
                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-09-21 06:26 -0700
                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2018-09-21 07:23 -0700
                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@notmail.com> - 2018-09-21 17:21 +0200
                                                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2018-09-21 11:32 -0700
                                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@notmail.com> - 2018-09-21 23:30 +0200
                                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2018-09-21 22:05 -0700
                                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-09-21 22:39 -0700
                                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2018-09-21 22:56 -0700
                                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-09-21 23:00 -0700
                                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2018-09-21 23:13 -0700
                                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-09-21 23:20 -0700
                                                                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2018-09-21 23:32 -0700
                                                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-09-22 07:13 -0700
                                                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2018-09-22 11:06 -0700
                                                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-09-22 11:11 -0700
                                                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Rhett Joyner <udof@rsrrfirwv.on> - 2018-09-22 20:39 +0000
                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-21 12:09 -0700
                                                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-21 12:56 -0700
                                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-21 13:24 -0700
                                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2018-09-21 14:41 -0700
                                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Rhett Joyner <udof@rsrrfirw.on> - 2018-09-21 21:51 +0000
                                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-22 08:29 -0700
                                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-22 08:49 -0700
                                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@notmail.com> - 2018-09-22 18:00 +0200
                                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-23 10:05 -0700
                                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-09-23 10:11 -0700
                                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2018-09-23 12:09 -0700
                                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-09-23 14:52 -0700
                                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2018-09-23 12:06 -0700
                                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-23 12:37 -0700
                                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-23 13:20 -0700
                                                                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-09-24 02:48 -0700
                                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-23 22:20 +0200
                                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-09-23 14:53 -0700
                                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2018-09-24 23:54 -0700
                                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-09-24 10:37 -0700
                                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-24 13:45 -0700
                                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2018-09-24 14:04 -0700
                                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-09-24 15:48 -0700
                                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-09-24 16:09 -0700
                                                                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2018-09-24 16:53 -0700
                                                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-09-25 00:21 +0000
                                                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-09-25 05:29 -0700
                                                                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-25 07:31 -0700
                                                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-09-25 08:06 -0700
                                                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-25 08:21 -0700
                                                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@notmail.com> - 2018-09-25 18:13 +0200
                                                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-25 09:59 -0700
                                                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-09-25 10:56 -0700
                                                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-09-25 23:27 -0700
                                                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-09-25 23:31 -0700
                                                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-26 08:01 -0700
                                                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-09-26 08:22 -0700
                                                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-09-26 12:00 -0700
                                                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-26 14:03 -0700
                                                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-09-26 21:48 -0700
                                                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-25 20:53 +0200
                                                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-25 12:53 -0700
                                                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-09-25 23:33 -0700
                                                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-09-26 04:47 -0700
                                                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-26 08:34 -0700
                                                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-09-26 10:33 -0500
                                                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-26 10:00 -0700
                                                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-09-26 13:14 -0500
                                                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@notmail.com> - 2018-09-26 22:11 +0200
                                                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-26 13:34 -0700
                                                                                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-09-27 12:01 -0500
                                                                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-09-27 10:04 -0700
                                                                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-27 13:34 -0700
                                                                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Hilton Packett <wod@wcothr.ce> - 2018-09-27 22:20 +0000
                                                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Hilton Packett <wod@wcothr.ce> - 2018-09-27 22:49 +0000
                                                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2018-09-26 11:16 -0700
                                                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Hilton Packett <wod@wcothr.ce> - 2018-09-26 18:39 +0000
                                                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Hilton Packett <wod@wcothr.ce> - 2018-09-26 18:29 +0000
                                                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-26 13:40 -0700
                                                                                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Hilton Packett <wod@wcothr.ce> - 2018-09-27 22:53 +0000
                                                                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-28 07:22 -0700
                                                                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-28 17:19 +0000
                                                                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Hilton Packett <wod@wcothr.ce> - 2018-09-28 20:06 +0000
                                                                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-28 13:49 -0700
                                                                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Hilton Packett <wod@wcothr.ce> - 2018-09-28 20:10 +0000
                                                                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-28 14:21 -0700
                                                                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Hilton Packett <wod@wcothr.ce> - 2018-09-28 21:34 +0000
                                                                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-28 23:34 +0200
                                                                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Hilton Packett <wod@wcothr.ce> - 2018-09-28 21:50 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-29 05:25 +0200
                                                                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Hilton Packett <wod@wcothr.ce> - 2018-09-29 09:06 +0000
                                                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-09-25 10:16 -0700
                                                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-26 07:39 -0700
                                                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-09-26 11:52 -0700
                                                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-26 13:49 -0700
                                                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2018-09-26 14:45 -0700
                                                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-26 21:51 +0000
                                                                                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-27 08:11 -0700
                                                                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2018-09-27 09:22 -0700
                                                                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-09-27 10:01 -0700
                                                                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-27 16:52 +0000
                                                                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-09-27 10:03 -0700
                                                                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-27 10:23 -0700
                                                                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-09-27 10:34 -0700
                                                                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2018-09-27 10:38 -0700
                                                                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-27 18:33 +0000
                                                                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-27 14:26 -0700
                                                                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2018-09-27 14:56 -0700
                                                                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-28 04:40 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2018-09-28 05:42 -0700
                                                                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-09-28 06:12 -0700
                                                                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-28 07:55 -0700
                                                                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-28 17:32 +0000
                                                                                                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-28 13:56 -0700
                                                                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-09-27 21:55 -0700
                                                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-09-26 15:50 -0700
                                                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2018-09-27 12:00 -0700
                                                                                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-27 14:39 -0700
                                                                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2018-09-28 08:48 -0700
                                                                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-28 09:06 -0700
                                                                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-09-28 18:01 +0000
                                                                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@notmail.com> - 2018-09-28 20:35 +0200
                                                                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-09-28 11:49 -0700
                                                                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-09-28 15:47 -0700
                                                                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2018-09-28 13:47 -0700
                                                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-25 21:42 +0000
                                                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-26 09:16 -0700
                                                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-26 17:33 +0000
                                                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-26 13:06 -0700
                                                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-25 20:38 +0200
                                                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-25 21:32 +0200
                                                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-09-26 10:22 -0700
                                                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-09-25 10:00 -0700
                                                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-25 14:18 -0700
                                                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-25 21:23 +0000
                                                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-09-26 15:54 +0000
                                                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@notmail.com> - 2018-09-26 22:41 +0200
                                                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-26 21:44 +0000
                                                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-26 08:59 -0700
                                                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-26 17:10 +0000
                                                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-26 12:47 -0700
                                                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-26 21:14 +0000
                                                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-26 14:41 -0700
                                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2018-09-22 09:31 -0700
                                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-22 19:44 +0200
                                                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2018-09-21 13:11 -0700
                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-21 11:53 -0700
                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2018-09-21 12:52 -0700
                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-25 04:32 +0200
                                                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-09-25 00:12 -0500
                                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2018-09-24 22:59 -0700
                                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-09-25 07:28 -0700
                                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-09-25 11:52 -0500
                                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-09-25 23:25 -0700
                                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-25 05:36 -0700
                                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-09-25 07:05 -0700
                                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@notmail.com> - 2018-09-25 18:24 +0200
                                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-25 20:12 +0200
                                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-09-25 19:10 -0500
                                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-26 09:19 -0700
                                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-26 17:37 +0000
                                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-26 13:13 -0700
                                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-09-25 19:02 -0500
                                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2018-09-25 07:30 -0700
                                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Hilton Packett <wod@wcothr.ce> - 2018-09-25 15:07 +0000
                                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-09-25 12:01 -0500
                                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-25 08:02 -0700
                                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-09-25 12:05 -0500
                                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-26 07:14 -0700
                                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-26 09:54 -0700
                                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-26 10:04 -0700
                                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-26 10:18 -0700
                                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-26 12:58 -0700
                                                                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-26 15:09 -0700
                                                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-27 08:20 -0700
                                                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-27 09:57 -0700
                                                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-27 13:16 -0700
                                                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-27 14:41 -0700
                                                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-28 06:59 -0700
                                                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-28 07:42 -0700
                                                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-28 08:26 -0700
                                                                                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-28 09:05 -0700
                                                                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-28 09:36 -0700
                                                                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-28 09:58 -0700
                                                                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-28 13:30 -0700
                                                                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-09-28 13:52 -0700
                                                                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-28 23:20 +0200
                                                                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-09-28 14:27 -0700
                                                                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-28 15:03 -0700
                                                                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-29 08:29 -0700
                                                                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2018-09-29 09:33 -0700
                                                                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-29 10:16 -0700
                                                                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-29 10:52 -0700
                                                                                                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-29 11:00 -0700
                                                                                                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-29 11:04 -0700
                                                                                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-29 13:16 -0700
                                                                                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-29 13:43 -0700
                                                                                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-29 14:02 -0700
                                                                                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-09-29 14:09 -0700
                                                                                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-29 17:27 -0700
                                                                                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-30 04:39 +0200
                                                                                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-09-29 21:58 -0500
                                                                                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-30 03:49 +0000
                                                                                                                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-30 05:55 +0200
                                                                                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-30 06:40 -0700
                                                                                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-30 08:23 -0700
                                                                                                                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-30 10:21 -0700
                                                                                                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@notmail.com> - 2018-09-30 19:30 +0200
                                                                                                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-30 11:00 -0700
                                                                                                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-30 12:54 -0700
                                                                                                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-30 13:05 -0700
                                                                                                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-30 13:42 -0700
                                                                                                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-30 21:43 +0000
                                                                                                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-01 08:32 -0700
                                                                                                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-10-01 16:12 +0000
                                                                                                                                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-01 10:01 -0700
                                                                                                                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-10-01 17:23 +0000
                                                                                                                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-10-01 18:31 +0000
                                                                                                                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-01 13:57 -0700
                                                                                                                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it pnalsing@gmail.com - 2018-10-01 16:32 -0700
                                                                                                                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-10-02 02:28 +0000
                                                                                                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-10-01 09:31 -0700
                                                                                                                                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-01 10:10 -0700
                                                                                                                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-10-01 10:46 -0700
                                                                                                                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-01 13:26 -0700
                                                                                                                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it pnalsing@gmail.com - 2018-10-01 13:32 -0700
                                                                                                                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-10-01 13:53 -0700
                                                                                                                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-01 14:09 -0700
                                                                                                                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-10-01 14:33 -0700
                                                                                                                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-01 14:04 -0700
                                                                                                                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2018-10-01 14:21 -0700
                                                                                                                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Hilton Packett <wod@wcotahr.ce> - 2018-10-01 22:23 +0000
                                                                                                                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it pnalsing@gmail.com - 2018-10-01 16:33 -0700
                                                                                                                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-10-02 03:21 +0000
                                                                                                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-30 15:27 -0700
                                                                                                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-01 08:45 -0700
                                                                                                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-10-01 04:10 +0200
                                                                                                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-09-30 11:18 -0700
                                                                                                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-30 13:12 -0700
                                                                                                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-30 13:37 -0700
                                                                                                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-30 14:26 -0700
                                                                                                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-30 15:30 -0700
                                                                                                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-10-01 09:10 -0700
                                                                                                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-10-01 17:39 -0700
                                                                                                                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-30 20:58 +0200
                                                                                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-30 20:52 +0200
                                                                                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-29 20:53 +0000
                                                                                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-29 14:20 -0700
                                                                                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-29 21:32 +0000
                                                                                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2018-10-02 17:14 -0700
                                                                                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-03 07:10 -0700
                                                                                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-03 07:28 -0700
                                                                                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-10-03 07:42 -0700
                                                                                                                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-03 08:21 -0700
                                                                                                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-10-03 08:52 -0700
                                                                                                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-10-03 09:14 -0700
                                                                                                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-03 09:29 -0700
                                                                                                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-10-03 17:13 +0000
                                                                                                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-03 12:15 -0700
                                                                                                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-10-03 12:50 -0700
                                                                                                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paul Gish <uop@uwrwuao.tt> - 2018-10-03 19:56 +0000
                                                                                                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-10-03 14:00 -0700
                                                                                                                                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paul Gish <uop@uwrwuao.tt> - 2018-10-03 21:33 +0000
                                                                                                                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-10-03 14:54 -0700
                                                                                                                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paul Gish <uop@uwrwuao.tt> - 2018-10-04 17:34 +0000
                                                                                                                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-10-04 14:26 -0700
                                                                                                                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paul Gish <uop@uwrwuao.tt> - 2018-10-04 21:41 +0000
                                                                                                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-10-03 20:02 +0000
                                                                                                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-10-03 10:22 -0700
                                                                                                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-03 12:50 -0700
                                                                                                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2018-10-06 07:41 -0700
                                                                                                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@notmail.com> - 2018-10-06 21:50 +0200
                                                                                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-10-03 15:38 +0000
                                                                                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2018-10-03 16:57 -0700
                                                                                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-10-01 13:13 -0700
                                                                                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-01 14:00 -0700
                                                                                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-10-01 14:30 -0700
                                                                                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Hilton Packett <wod@wcotahr.ce> - 2018-10-01 22:25 +0000
                                                                                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-10-01 22:53 -0500
                                                                                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-02 13:24 -0700
                                                                                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-10-02 13:31 -0700
                                                                                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-10-02 13:54 -0700
                                                                                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-10-02 14:31 -0700
                                                                                                                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-10-02 15:24 -0700
                                                                                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-10-02 13:55 -0700
                                                                                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-10-02 14:10 -0700
                                                                                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2018-10-02 14:26 -0700
                                                                                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Burton Callanan <uuu@uwrwuao.tt> - 2018-10-03 15:26 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-10-02 14:23 -0700
                                                                                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-10-03 12:51 -0400
                                                                                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-10-03 11:54 -0700
                                                                                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-10-03 19:08 +0000
                                                                                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-10-03 12:34 -0700
                                                                                                                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paul Gish <uop@uwrwuao.tt> - 2018-10-03 20:09 +0000
                                                                                                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-10-03 14:01 -0700
                                                                                                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paul Gish <uop@uwrwuao.tt> - 2018-10-04 17:38 +0000
                                                                                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-10-03 17:58 -0400
                                                                                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-28 17:50 +0000
                                                                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-28 14:17 -0700
                                                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-28 17:13 +0000
                                                                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-28 13:37 -0700
                                                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-27 17:13 +0000
                                                                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-27 13:45 -0700
                                                                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-28 03:42 +0000
                                                                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-09-27 21:57 -0700
                                                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2018-09-26 11:23 -0700
                                                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-09-25 00:17 -0700
                                                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-09-25 07:11 -0700
                                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-25 20:14 +0200
                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2018-09-18 18:02 -0700
                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-18 18:31 -0700
                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-09-19 03:14 -0700
                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2018-09-17 10:39 -0700
                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2018-09-17 10:21 -0700
                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-17 10:31 -0700
                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2018-09-17 10:49 -0700
                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-09-17 18:35 +0000
                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2018-09-17 15:39 -0700
                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-09-17 23:28 +0000
                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2018-09-18 07:13 -0700
                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-09-18 14:30 +0000
                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Stakos Netakis <autp@wsalaw.oa> - 2018-09-17 18:02 +0000
              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2018-09-16 22:09 +0200
                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2018-09-16 22:15 +0200
                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-16 13:52 -0700
                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-16 17:26 -0700
                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-17 10:03 -0700
                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-17 10:11 -0700
                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-09-17 10:21 -0700
                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-17 10:24 -0700
                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-09-17 10:39 -0700
                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-17 14:57 -0700
                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-17 15:03 -0700
                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Stakos Netakis <autp@wsalaw.oa> - 2018-09-17 22:16 +0000
                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-17 15:38 -0700
                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Stakos Netakis <autp@wsalaw.oa> - 2018-09-18 22:10 +0000
                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-09-18 16:20 -0700
                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-09-17 17:27 +0000
                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2018-09-17 08:22 +0200
                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-09-16 23:58 -0700
                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-17 14:01 -0700
                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-17 14:45 -0700
                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-09-17 22:13 +0000
                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-17 17:10 -0700
                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-18 08:43 -0700
                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-18 09:39 -0700
                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-18 09:51 -0700
                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-18 10:59 -0700
                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-18 13:23 -0700
                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-18 13:36 -0700
                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@notmail.com> - 2018-09-18 22:42 +0200
                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-18 21:55 +0000
                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-19 09:14 -0700
                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-19 23:17 +0000
                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-20 07:28 -0700
                                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-20 19:36 +0000
                                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-21 11:26 -0700
                                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2018-09-21 12:46 -0700
                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2018-09-18 22:38 +0200
                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-18 14:23 -0700
                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-18 22:12 +0000
                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-19 09:45 -0700
                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-19 23:33 +0000
                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-20 07:59 -0700
                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-20 08:34 -0700
                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2018-09-20 12:11 -0700
                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-09-21 14:55 +0000
                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-09-21 09:48 -0700
                                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-20 20:03 +0000
                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Stakos Netakis <autp@wsalaws.np> - 2018-09-20 20:44 +0000
                                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-20 13:44 -0700
                                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-20 23:23 +0000
                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Stakos Netakis <autp@wsalaws.np> - 2018-09-21 09:29 +0000
                                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-21 06:57 -0700
                                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2018-09-21 07:28 -0700
                                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-21 10:54 -0700
                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2018-09-19 15:05 +0200
                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-09-19 07:04 -0700
                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-09-19 07:46 -0700
                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-09-19 09:42 -0700
                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-19 09:57 -0700
                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-17 16:35 +0000
                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-17 14:31 -0700
                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Stakos Netakis <autp@wsalaw.oa> - 2018-09-17 21:40 +0000
                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-18 08:18 -0700
                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Stakos Netakis <autp@wsalaw.oa> - 2018-09-18 22:15 +0000
                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-19 09:47 -0700
                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Stakos Netakis <autp@wsalaw.oa> - 2018-09-19 22:09 +0000
                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-09-17 15:37 -0700
                        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-18 09:12 -0700
                          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-18 17:26 +0000
                            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-18 13:16 -0700
                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-18 21:47 +0000
                                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-09-19 03:15 -0700
                              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2018-09-18 17:57 -0700
                      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-09-18 02:40 +0000
          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-15 23:34 +0000
            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Stakos Netakis <autp@wsalaw.oa> - 2018-09-16 10:09 +0000
            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-16 09:04 -0700
          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-09-17 06:19 -0700
            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-17 14:10 -0700
              Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-09-17 15:23 -0700
                Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-18 09:01 -0700
                  Re: Time Dilation as I understand it rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2018-09-18 11:58 -0700
                    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-09-18 12:33 -0700
          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-09-20 01:09 -0700
    Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-27 10:00 -0700
      Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Hilton Packett <wod@wcothr.ce> - 2018-09-27 23:03 +0000
        Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2018-09-28 07:29 -0700
          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-09-28 17:22 +0000
            Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Hilton Packett <wod@wcothr.ce> - 2018-09-29 09:12 +0000
          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-09-28 10:33 -0700
          Re: Time Dilation as I understand it Hilton Packett <wod@wcothr.ce> - 2018-09-28 20:20 +0000

Page 29 of 31 — ← Prev page 1 … 27 28 [29] 30 31  Next page →


#472609

FromEd Lake <detect@newsguy.com>
Date2018-09-21 11:26 -0700
Message-ID<d1cfa945-4ab5-4d55-9e1c-028a809f6269@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#472564
On Friday, September 21, 2018 at 1:34:51 AM UTC-5, Michael Moroney wrote:
> Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> writes:
> 
> >On Wednesday, September 19, 2018 at 6:17:57 PM UTC-5, Michael Moroney wrote:
> >> Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> writes:
> 
> >> >It predicts things that may be close to reality or miles off, but you 
> >> >need to do actual experiments to determine reality.
> >> 
> >> Models need to be validated, but once that is done you can use it to make
> >> predictions.  That includes the math in the model, it is part of the
> >> model.
> 
> >These arguments over words are going nowhere and accomplishing nothing.
> 
> That's because you insist on using your own definitions and not the ones
> science uses.

Not true.  I use definitions that scientists use, not definitions that 
mathematicians use.  

> 
> >H&K's experiment was mainly about velocity time dilation (VTD), i.e., special 
> >relativity.  They could have done gravity time dilation experiments at home.
> 
> They could NOT disregard the gravitational effects. They were using
> airliners flying at ~30,000 feet and the gravitational effect from doing
> so were significant.  If they were doing the experiment using a sea level
> train, car or ship route they could ignore the gravitational effects. (but
> the velocity effects would be that much less....)

Yes, everyone understands that.  Plus they understand that you cannot go 
very far by train or car without going up and down hills,  And you can't go 
very fast via a ship.  So a pure SR time dilation experiment involving clocks 
is extremely difficult to set up. 

> 
> >By flying eastward with the spin of the earth and then westward against the 
> >spin of the earth they showed that VTD is NOT RECIPROCAL, and they showed 
> >that the earth's spin causes VTD.  AND they showed that the amount of VTD 
> >can be changed by traveling with or against the spin of the earth.
> 
> The experiment was NOT reciprocal. Not only the gravitational effects, but
> the net speed relative to an inertial point was the three clocks went 
> around the center of the earth fast, faster and fastest IN THE SAME 
> DIRECTION! The planes were all slower than the earth's rotation so the
> clocks ALL moved in the same direction relative to the inertial reference
> point. For the H-K experiment, the rotation of the surface of the earth
> could NOT be ignored, it was a major component of the velocity, so they
> had to use an inertial reference.

So, when is SR reciprocal?  Can you cite ANY time dilation experiment that 
was pure SR and confirmed SR is reciprocal?  You seem to be saying what I 
am saying: SR time dilation is NOT reciprocal in our real universe.  It is 
ONLY reciprocal in mathematical equations.

> 
> >Yet, somehow, people here believe that VTD is reciprocal.
> 
> If it wasn't, then the first postulate of relativity would be false, and
> Einstein's 1905 SR paper would have no basis, so no SR at all. We'd be
> here arguing about some other odd high velocity motion theory that some
> Alternate-Universe Einstein came up with.

As I've stated many times, you misunderstand Einstein's First Postulate. 
And you misunderstand Relativity.  

Einstein's First Postulate just says that "the same laws of electrodynamics 
and optics will be valid for all frames of reference for which the equations 
of mechanics hold good."  What it doesn't spell out is that the laws can be 
the same in two frames of reference while time ticks at different rates, 
because time is a VARIABLE in the laws of electrodynamics and optics.

Relativity says that even though I measure the speed of light in my frame of 
reference to be 299,792,458 meters PER SECOND, and you get the same result 
in your frame of reference, BECAUSE SECONDS CAN BE OF DIFFERENT LENGTHS 
your speed of light can be faster or slower than mine.

> 
> >I keep asking people here to name an experiment which shows that velocity 
> >time dilation is reciprocal.  Or that motion is reciprocal.
> 
> Motion reciprocal is easy. Experiments done in motion vs. "stationary"
> having the same results. Experiments on the ISS do not require
> compensation for the fact it orbits the earth at 17,000 miles per hour,
> unless part of the experiment takes place on earth's surface or elsewhere
> (then SR/GR time dilation compensation is needed).  You yourself seem to
> be fine with the fact the "stationary" earth orbits the sun which orbits
> the Milky Way, which moves..." yet you have problems using some other
> object which moves relative to the earth as a reference. That's a weird
> double standard!

You make no sense.  I keep saying that NOTHING IS STATIONARY.  Mathematicians 
just FANTASIZE that things are "stationary" in a "frame of reference."  That 
has NOTHING TO DO WITH REALITY.  It just makes the math easier.

> 
> Of course one "experiment" which is completely consistent with SR length
> contraction and time dilation is ordinary magnetism from electric currents
> in wires. Magnetism can be completely explained as electric fields
> modified by SR effects of the electrons moving relative to the nuclei of
> the metal of a wire. Even though the electrons move quite slowly at
> ordinary currents! (I find this quite cool!)

Yes, and we all know that high speed muons exist longer than low speed muons.
But no one has ever confirmed "length contraction."  And your experiment 
says nothing about any reciprocal motion or time dilation.

> 
> 
> >  I list that 
> >belief as the #1 DUMBEST belief in physics: http://oldguynewissues.blogspot.com/2018/02/the-10-dumbest-ideas-in-physics.html
> 
> Can you PROVE that it is 'dumb' with actual experiments? That is, actually
> disprove SR time dilation? If you can actually do that, I'll personally
> pay for your airline ticket to Sweden to pick up your Nobel Prize.

Don't you understand ANYTHING!!??!!??  I TOTALLY ACCEPT SR time dilation! 
I've been using H&K as an example.  I have written papers on the subject.
I constantly quote from articles which say that moving clocks run slower.
It is people here (such as Tom Roberts) who argue that moving clocks do NOT 
run slower. 

YOU are the one who denies SR time dilation.  YOU claim it is all GR time 
dilation.  Read your own posts!!

> 
> >People here seem to believe that time dilation is reciprocal even though 
> >ALL experiments say it is NOT.
> 
> No, that is your dumb claim. All experiments are consistent with SR as
> proposed by Einstein, within the domain of SR. Including reciprocal
> time dilation.
> 
> >  How can they justify their beliefs???
> 
> Because they have actually done the experiments?

And yet you cannot name ANY experiment which shows that SR time dilation 
is reciprocal!!!

Ed

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#472617

Fromrotchm <rotchm@gmail.com>
Date2018-09-21 12:46 -0700
Message-ID<52b1f83b-4981-4a06-bcd7-c39874143c0f@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#472609
On Friday, September 21, 2018 at 2:26:08 PM UTC-4, Ed Lake wrote:
> On Friday, September 21, 2018 at 1:34:51 AM UTC-5, Michael Moroney wrote:

> Mathematicians just FANTASIZE that things are "stationary" in a 
> "frame of reference." 

Depends on the definition of 'stationary'. Do you ed, know what 'stationary' means? Dont be afraid to answer this. If not to me, then to all, as a general comment. 

> That has NOTHING TO DO WITH REALITY. 

Mathematically, or physically, 'stationary' has the same definition. 

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#472347

From"Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no>
Date2018-09-18 22:38 +0200
Message-ID<xndoD.299547$Vv.57678@fx20.am4>
In reply to#472227
Den 17.09.2018 23.01, skrev Ed Lake:
> On Monday, September 17, 2018 at 1:22:23 AM UTC-5, Paul B. Andersen wrote:
>> Den 16.09.2018 22.52, skrev Ed Lake:
>>> On Sunday, September 16, 2018 at 3:09:11 PM UTC-5, Paul B. Andersen wrote:
>>>> Den 16.09.2018 16.29, skrev Ed Lake:
>>>>>
>>>>> Good point.  Hafele and Keating DID compute their expected time dilation
>>>>> results BEFORE going on their trips.  So they DID use mathematical models.
>>>>>
>>>>> However, their mathematical models are evidently not the same mathematical
>>>>> models you use.  There was NOTHING AT REST in their mathematical models.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ed
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://paulba.no/paper/Hafele_Keating.pdf
>>>>
>>>> In Hafele's calculations, the non rotating Earth centred frame
>>>> is considered to be 'stationary', and the speed of the planes
>>>> in this frame is what matters.
>>>>
>>>> You can see this from the statement:
>>>>      <<
>>>>        A clock at the equator has a speed RΩ relative to nonrotaing space,
>>>>        and hence runs slow relative to hypothetical coordinate clocks
>>>>        of this space in the Ratio 1 - R²Ω²/2c², where R is the earth's
>>>>        radius and Ω its angular speed.
>>>>      >>
>>>>
>>>
>>> That's just a theoretical statement.  It doesn't refer to the center of the
>>> earth, since the center of the earth is also rotating.
>> The simple point is that you were wrong when you said:
>> "their mathematical models are evidently not the same mathematical
>>    models you use. There was NOTHING AT REST in their mathematical
>>    models."
>>
>> The mathematical model is GR, and the frame of reference used
>> by Hafele is the "ECI frame" where the centre of the Earth is stationary.
>>
>> These are facts, nothing more to discuss.
>>
>>> It says nothing about what their experiments actually compared.
>>
>> Since you are unable to read the paper, you have no idea
>> of what is says.
>>
>> https://paulba.no/paper/Hafele_Keating.pdf
>>
>> The experiment compared the proper times of the three clocks.
>> The result was that the predictions of the mathematical
>> model GR were in accordance with the real world measurements.
> 
> The experiment compared the proper times of two clocks, one at the U.S. Naval
> Observatory and one that Hafele & Keating took with them.  (Actually they took
> FOUR clocks, but that was just so they could use an average and avoid
> having the entire experiment depend upon one traveling clock.)

Quite.
But the clocks were flown around the Earth twice
in opposite directions.
So there are three clocks involved:
The ground clock, the eastward going clock and
the westward going clock.

But in any case, you were wrong when you said:
"It says nothing about what their experiments actually compared."

> 
> The result was that predictions of SR AND GR were in accordance with real
> world measurements.

It is really the prediction of GR only, SR doesn't apply
in the curved space in the vicinity of the Earth.
According to GR an approximated prediction will consist
of two terms, the gravitational term (due to difference in
gravitational potentials), and one kinematic term (due to
the difference in the speeds IN THE ECI FRAME).
It is quite common to call the former term the "GR term"
and the latter the "SR term", but it is really GR only.

So the result was that the predictions of GR were
in accordance with real world measurements.


> 
> Hafele wrote in his paper "PERFORMANCE AND RESULTS OF PORTABLE CLOCKS IN
> AIRCRAFT":
> 
> "The special theory of relativity predicts that a moving clock will run slow
> compared with similar clocks distributed at rest and suitably synchronized in
> an inertial reference system.  In addition, the general theory predicts that a
> clock in a stronger gravitational field will run slow compared with a similar
> clock in a weaker field."

As explained above it is GR that predicts both.

But it doesn't matter what you call it,
the mathematical used by Hafele is GR, and in
the frame he used is the centre of the Earth stationary.

> 
> The paper is at this link: http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a489971.pdf
> 
> Ed

That link doesn't work (may be temporary).
But I am sure it is the same paper as my reference above:
https://paulba.no/paper/Hafele_Keating.pdf

I now think that it is properly documented that you were wrong
when you said:
  <<
  However, their mathematical models are evidently not the same mathematical
  models you use.  There was NOTHING AT REST in their mathematical models.
  >>

The end.

-- 
Paul

https://paulba.no/

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#472359

FromEd Lake <detect@newsguy.com>
Date2018-09-18 14:23 -0700
Message-ID<8a1de865-c5de-4769-ab9a-55d61c6f70d4@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#472347
On Tuesday, September 18, 2018 at 3:38:55 PM UTC-5, Paul B. Andersen wrote:
> Den 17.09.2018 23.01, skrev Ed Lake:
> > On Monday, September 17, 2018 at 1:22:23 AM UTC-5, Paul B. Andersen wrote:
> >> Den 16.09.2018 22.52, skrev Ed Lake:
> >>> On Sunday, September 16, 2018 at 3:09:11 PM UTC-5, Paul B. Andersen wrote:
> >>>> Den 16.09.2018 16.29, skrev Ed Lake:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Good point.  Hafele and Keating DID compute their expected time dilation
> >>>>> results BEFORE going on their trips.  So they DID use mathematical models.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> However, their mathematical models are evidently not the same mathematical
> >>>>> models you use.  There was NOTHING AT REST in their mathematical models.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Ed
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> https://paulba.no/paper/Hafele_Keating.pdf
> >>>>
> >>>> In Hafele's calculations, the non rotating Earth centred frame
> >>>> is considered to be 'stationary', and the speed of the planes
> >>>> in this frame is what matters.
> >>>>
> >>>> You can see this from the statement:
> >>>>      <<
> >>>>        A clock at the equator has a speed RΩ relative to nonrotaing space,
> >>>>        and hence runs slow relative to hypothetical coordinate clocks
> >>>>        of this space in the Ratio 1 - R²Ω²/2c², where R is the earth's
> >>>>        radius and Ω its angular speed.
> >>>>      >>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> That's just a theoretical statement.  It doesn't refer to the center of the
> >>> earth, since the center of the earth is also rotating.
> >> The simple point is that you were wrong when you said:
> >> "their mathematical models are evidently not the same mathematical
> >>    models you use. There was NOTHING AT REST in their mathematical
> >>    models."
> >>
> >> The mathematical model is GR, and the frame of reference used
> >> by Hafele is the "ECI frame" where the centre of the Earth is stationary.
> >>
> >> These are facts, nothing more to discuss.
> >>
> >>> It says nothing about what their experiments actually compared.
> >>
> >> Since you are unable to read the paper, you have no idea
> >> of what is says.
> >>
> >> https://paulba.no/paper/Hafele_Keating.pdf
> >>
> >> The experiment compared the proper times of the three clocks.
> >> The result was that the predictions of the mathematical
> >> model GR were in accordance with the real world measurements.
> > 
> > The experiment compared the proper times of two clocks, one at the U.S. Naval
> > Observatory and one that Hafele & Keating took with them.  (Actually they took
> > FOUR clocks, but that was just so they could use an average and avoid
> > having the entire experiment depend upon one traveling clock.)
> 
> Quite.
> But the clocks were flown around the Earth twice
> in opposite directions.
> So there are three clocks involved:
> The ground clock, the eastward going clock and
> the westward going clock.

Okay.  I suppose that after the eastward trip they left the traveling clock
next to the first clock at the USNO and took a third clock with them on the 
westward trip.  My point was that you'd get the same results if you just had 
two clocks.  You could use the same clock for the westward trip that you 
used for the eastward trip.  You'd just have to reset it after comparing 
to the USNO clock after the first trip.
  
> 
> But in any case, you were wrong when you said:
> "It says nothing about what their experiments actually compared."

Just saying I'm wrong doesn't make me wrong.

> 
> > 
> > The result was that predictions of SR AND GR were in accordance with real
> > world measurements.
> 
> It is really the prediction of GR only, SR doesn't apply
> in the curved space in the vicinity of the Earth.

But the experiment was an SR AND GR experiment.  If all they did was a 
GR experiment, why go around the world?  Why go anywhere?  Why not just 
lift one clock higher and keep it there for a week?

> According to GR an approximated prediction will consist
> of two terms, the gravitational term (due to difference in
> gravitational potentials), and one kinematic term (due to
> the difference in the speeds IN THE ECI FRAME).

All "frames" are imaginary, including Earth Centered Inertial frames.  
They are a mathematicians way of visualizing things so he can do the math.
They evidently have little or nothing to do with reality. 

> It is quite common to call the former term the "GR term"
> and the latter the "SR term", but it is really GR only.

You are talking math, which means nothing to me.  The H&K experiment 
involved traveling with and against the rotation of the earth in order 
to travel at different speeds through space.  And by traveling at different 
speeds through space they demonstrated SPECIAL Relativity (SR).

> 
> So the result was that the predictions of GR were
> in accordance with real world measurements.

I think you are telling me that you can change SR to GR by playing 
around with the math.  Maybe so, but it has nothing to do with reality.

> 
> 
> > 
> > Hafele wrote in his paper "PERFORMANCE AND RESULTS OF PORTABLE CLOCKS IN
> > AIRCRAFT":
> > 
> > "The special theory of relativity predicts that a moving clock will run slow
> > compared with similar clocks distributed at rest and suitably synchronized in
> > an inertial reference system.  In addition, the general theory predicts that a
> > clock in a stronger gravitational field will run slow compared with a similar
> > clock in a weaker field."
> 
> As explained above it is GR that predicts both.
> 
> But it doesn't matter what you call it,
> the mathematical used by Hafele is GR, and in
> the frame he used is the centre of the Earth stationary.

I think what you are saying once again is that you can change SR to GR 
by playing math games.

> 
> > 
> > The paper is at this link: http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a489971.pdf
> > 
> > Ed
> 
> That link doesn't work (may be temporary).
> But I am sure it is the same paper as my reference above:
> https://paulba.no/paper/Hafele_Keating.pdf

Then you are wrong.  Both links work for me, and the paper at my link was 
written by Hafele ONLY.  It contains the information about the routes they 
flew.  That information is not in the papers H&K wrote together.

> 
> I now think that it is properly documented that you were wrong
> when you said:
>   <<
>   However, their mathematical models are evidently not the same mathematical
>   models you use.  There was NOTHING AT REST in their mathematical models.

I repeat.  There was nothing at rest in their experiments (and presumably 
in their mathematical models).  The USNO clock was moving around the earth 
as the earth spun on its axis.  And the clocks H&K carried with them moved 
around the earth first eastward and then westward.

Ed

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#472376

Frommoroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)
Date2018-09-18 22:12 +0000
Message-ID<pnrt8g$4jq$4@pcls7.std.com>
In reply to#472359
Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> writes:

>On Tuesday, September 18, 2018 at 3:38:55 PM UTC-5, Paul B. Andersen wrote:

>> It is really the prediction of GR only, SR doesn't apply
>> in the curved space in the vicinity of the Earth.

>But the experiment was an SR AND GR experiment.  If all they did was a
>GR experiment, why go around the world?  Why go anywhere?  Why not just
>lift one clock higher and keep it there for a week?

As I stated before, SR is just a special case of GR, no gravity. Since
gravity is involved, yes it is a GR experiment. Plus there are subtle 
effects on the "SR" component due to the path being curved not straight
etc.

>> According to GR an approximated prediction will consist
>> of two terms, the gravitational term (due to difference in
>> gravitational potentials), and one kinematic term (due to
>> the difference in the speeds IN THE ECI FRAME).

>All "frames" are imaginary, including Earth Centered Inertial frames.

They are references from which to work from.

>They are a mathematicians way of visualizing things so he can do the math.
>They evidently have little or nothing to do with reality.

Nature does not use frames directly but the various laws act as if they
were real.

>> It is quite common to call the former term the "GR term"
>> and the latter the "SR term", but it is really GR only.

>You are talking math, which means nothing to me.

Then you are very misplaced, trying to argue relativity in a relativity
group. Physics is loaded with math.

>I think you are telling me that you can change SR to GR by playing
>around with the math.  Maybe so, but it has nothing to do with reality.

All SR is is GR with gravity=0 everywhere. Much simpler.

>> But it doesn't matter what you call it,
>> the mathematical used by Hafele is GR, and in
>> the frame he used is the centre of the Earth stationary.

>I think what you are saying once again is that you can change SR to GR
>by playing math games.

SR is a subset of GR. All it is is GR with no gravity.

>>   However, their mathematical models are evidently not the same mathematical
>>   models you use.  There was NOTHING AT REST in their mathematical models.

>I repeat.  There was nothing at rest in their experiments (and presumably
>in their mathematical models).  The USNO clock was moving around the earth
>as the earth spun on its axis.  And the clocks H&K carried with them moved=
>around the earth first eastward and then westward.

"At rest" refered to the center of the earth. They could not use a point
on the surface (the USNO clock) since the motion of the earth WAS 
significant and could not be ignored.

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#472438

FromEd Lake <detect@newsguy.com>
Date2018-09-19 09:45 -0700
Message-ID<b546b60f-171a-42e7-adbb-f875e15be46b@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#472376
On Tuesday, September 18, 2018 at 5:12:34 PM UTC-5, Michael Moroney wrote:
> Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> writes:
> 
> >On Tuesday, September 18, 2018 at 3:38:55 PM UTC-5, Paul B. Andersen wrote:
> 
> >> It is really the prediction of GR only, SR doesn't apply
> >> in the curved space in the vicinity of the Earth.
> 
> >But the experiment was an SR AND GR experiment.  If all they did was a
> >GR experiment, why go around the world?  Why go anywhere?  Why not just
> >lift one clock higher and keep it there for a week?
> 
> As I stated before, SR is just a special case of GR, no gravity. Since
> gravity is involved, yes it is a GR experiment. Plus there are subtle 
> effects on the "SR" component due to the path being curved not straight
> etc.
> 
> >> According to GR an approximated prediction will consist
> >> of two terms, the gravitational term (due to difference in
> >> gravitational potentials), and one kinematic term (due to
> >> the difference in the speeds IN THE ECI FRAME).
> 
> >All "frames" are imaginary, including Earth Centered Inertial frames.
> 
> They are references from which to work from.
> 
> >They are a mathematicians way of visualizing things so he can do the math.
> >They evidently have little or nothing to do with reality.
> 
> Nature does not use frames directly but the various laws act as if they
> were real.
> 
> >> It is quite common to call the former term the "GR term"
> >> and the latter the "SR term", but it is really GR only.
> 
> >You are talking math, which means nothing to me.
> 
> Then you are very misplaced, trying to argue relativity in a relativity
> group. Physics is loaded with math.
> 
> >I think you are telling me that you can change SR to GR by playing
> >around with the math.  Maybe so, but it has nothing to do with reality.
> 
> All SR is is GR with gravity=0 everywhere. Much simpler.
> 
> >> But it doesn't matter what you call it,
> >> the mathematical used by Hafele is GR, and in
> >> the frame he used is the centre of the Earth stationary.
> 
> >I think what you are saying once again is that you can change SR to GR
> >by playing math games.
> 
> SR is a subset of GR. All it is is GR with no gravity.
> 
> >>   However, their mathematical models are evidently not the same mathematical
> >>   models you use.  There was NOTHING AT REST in their mathematical models.
> 
> >I repeat.  There was nothing at rest in their experiments (and presumably
> >in their mathematical models).  The USNO clock was moving around the earth
> >as the earth spun on its axis.  And the clocks H&K carried with them moved=
> >around the earth first eastward and then westward.
> 
> "At rest" refered to the center of the earth. They could not use a point
> on the surface (the USNO clock) since the motion of the earth WAS 
> significant and could not be ignored.

For what it's worth, I just plotted the Hafele-Keating flights on a map.  
That map is here: https://i.imgur.com/SnUsg4I.jpg

I also put it on my web page along with a link to the Hafele paper: 
http://www.ed-lake.com/Time-Dilation-Experiments.html

What the map shows is that it would have been next to impossible for 
Hafele and Keating to have created an ACCURATE estimate of time dilation 
for their trips.  They were amazingly close, but they were using a model 
that did NOT represent reality, so they could not make perfectly accurate 
projections. 

Ed

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#472472

Frommoroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)
Date2018-09-19 23:33 +0000
Message-ID<pnumc8$fdc$3@pcls7.std.com>
In reply to#472438
Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> writes:

>What the map shows is that it would have been next to impossible for 
>Hafele and Keating to have created an ACCURATE estimate of time dilation 
>for their trips.  They were amazingly close, but they were using a model 
>that did NOT represent reality, so they could not make perfectly accurate 
>projections. 

It could be modeled as a series of segments of flights rather than
circling the earth at the equator. Each segment would have a speed
component and an altitude component. Add up the effects over the entire 
trip.

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#472502

FromEd Lake <detect@newsguy.com>
Date2018-09-20 07:59 -0700
Message-ID<02e9247a-d305-4482-8a0c-7d96f1811ca1@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#472472
On Wednesday, September 19, 2018 at 6:33:30 PM UTC-5, Michael Moroney wrote:
> Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> writes:
> 
> >What the map shows is that it would have been next to impossible for 
> >Hafele and Keating to have created an ACCURATE estimate of time dilation 
> >for their trips.  They were amazingly close, but they were using a model 
> >that did NOT represent reality, so they could not make perfectly accurate 
> >projections. 
> 
> It could be modeled as a series of segments of flights rather than
> circling the earth at the equator. Each segment would have a speed
> component and an altitude component. Add up the effects over the entire 
> trip.

Yes, but then you have to do the actual experiment.  And in the actual 
experiment the pilot might have to fly higher than planned due to storms 
in the area.  And a pilot may have to circle an airfield once or twice 
if there is some kind of air traffic control problem.

So, the math gives an IDEAL set of results. The objective is NOT to get the 
EXACT results predicted, the objective is to PROVE THE CONCEPT.  It does not 
matter that the mathematical "model" did not perfectly match reality.  What 
mattered was that the experiment CONFIRMED SR time dilation AND GR time 
dilation. 

Ed

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#472508

FromEd Lake <detect@newsguy.com>
Date2018-09-20 08:34 -0700
Message-ID<eabd1f01-3c83-4564-91ad-e9e32eda900b@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#472502
I enjoy science.  Science uses the "Scientific Method."  The scientific method 
is a process for experimentation that is used to explore observations and 
answer questions.  The seven steps in the method are as follows:

Step 1. Make an observation.

Step 2. Do research to look for an explanation for the observation.

Step 3. Construct an hypothesis that seems to explain the observation.

Step 4. Test the hypothesis by doing an experiment.

Step 5. Evaluate the experimental results.  If the results are inconclusive, 
redesign the experiment and return to step 4.

Step 6. If the experimental results were conclusive in confirming the 
hypothesis, go to step 7.  If the experimental results were inconclusive 
or showed that the hypothesis was wrong, go back to step 3 and construct 
a new hypothesis.

Step 7.  Tell the world about your experimental results.  

Note that there are NO mathematics involved, although mathematics may 
definitely be needed to construct the experiment.

Einstein's theories began with an observation that events that appeared 
to occur simultaneously may NOT have ACTUALLY occurred simultaneously.

If you are moving and see two events occur simultaneously, there is a 
good chance that they did not actually happen simultaneously.  The speed
of light could cause you to see an event ahead of you at the same time as you see an event behind you, but they did not actually occur simultaneously. Due 
to your direction of movement, the light from ahead of you had less distance 
to travel to reach you than the light from behind you. 

If you are stationary and see two events occur simultaneously, there may 
also be reasons why they didn't actually occur simultaneously and just appeared
that way. One reason is that the speed of light might be different for the 
two events. 

Ed

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#472523

Fromrotchm <rotchm@gmail.com>
Date2018-09-20 12:11 -0700
Message-ID<78bc70f1-7197-4451-9b80-52d375eaa2e0@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#472508
On Thursday, September 20, 2018 at 11:34:08 AM UTC-4, Ed Lake wrote:

> If you are moving and see two events occur simultaneously, there is a 
> good chance that they did not actually happen simultaneously. 


Several errors or ambiguities in there...

First, you seem to be confounding "to see" with "to measure", or that you do not know the meaning of those expressions. 

Secondly, "actually happen simultaneously" ?? What does that  mean? 
Whats the difference between "happens simul" and "actually happens simul" ?

> The speed
> of light could cause you to see an event ahead of you 


No!! The SoL has NOTHINMG to do with the event, nor when you "see" it, because "to see" MEANS that you are located at the event in question, and that your detection devices re right there to note the time of occurence. Again, this shows that you do not know the meaningS of "to see".

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#472595

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2018-09-21 14:55 +0000
Message-ID<po30p9$1r8p$2@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#472508
Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> wrote:
> I enjoy science.  Science uses the "Scientific Method."  The scientific method 
> is a process for experimentation that is used to explore observations and 
> answer questions.  The seven steps in the method are as follows:
> 
> Step 1. Make an observation.
> 
> Step 2. Do research to look for an explanation for the observation.
> 
> Step 3. Construct an hypothesis that seems to explain the observation.
> 
> Step 4. Test the hypothesis by doing an experiment.

This step right here is where the math is. Do you understand why?
Maybe giving an example of a specific hypothesis to be tested and how it
would be tested would be instructive. Good lord! You know so little about
science. 

> 
> Step 5. Evaluate the experimental results.  If the results are inconclusive, 
> redesign the experiment and return to step 4.
> 
> Step 6. If the experimental results were conclusive in confirming the 
> hypothesis, go to step 7.  If the experimental results were inconclusive 
> or showed that the hypothesis was wrong, go back to step 3 and construct 
> a new hypothesis.
> 
> Step 7.  Tell the world about your experimental results.  
> 
> Note that there are NO mathematics involved, although mathematics may 
> definitely be needed to construct the experiment.
> 
> Einstein's theories began with an observation that events that appeared 
> to occur simultaneously may NOT have ACTUALLY occurred simultaneously.
> 
> If you are moving and see two events occur simultaneously, there is a 
> good chance that they did not actually happen simultaneously.  The speed
> of light could cause you to see an event ahead of you at the same time as
> you see an event behind you, but they did not actually occur simultaneously. Due 
> to your direction of movement, the light from ahead of you had less distance 
> to travel to reach you than the light from behind you. 
> 
> If you are stationary and see two events occur simultaneously, there may 
> also be reasons why they didn't actually occur simultaneously and just appeared
> that way. One reason is that the speed of light might be different for the 
> two events. 
> 
> Ed
> 



-- 
Odd Bodkin -- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#472601

Frommlwozniak@wp.pl
Date2018-09-21 09:48 -0700
Message-ID<5b100ed7-5dec-4e3b-9336-94edab511337@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#472595
On Friday, 21 September 2018 16:55:40 UTC+2, Odd Bodkin  wrote:

> This step right here is where the math is. Do you understand why?

Speaking of math, it's always good to remind 
that your idiot guru had to reject its oldest, very
important part, as it didn't want to cooperate
with his moronic mumble.

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#472527

Frommoroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)
Date2018-09-20 20:03 +0000
Message-ID<po0ue8$aiu$5@pcls7.std.com>
In reply to#472502
Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> writes:

>On Wednesday, September 19, 2018 at 6:33:30 PM UTC-5, Michael Moroney wrote:
>> Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> writes:
>> 
>> >What the map shows is that it would have been next to impossible for 
>> >Hafele and Keating to have created an ACCURATE estimate of time dilation 
>> >for their trips.  They were amazingly close, but they were using a model 
>> >that did NOT represent reality, so they could not make perfectly accurate 
>> >projections. 
>> 
>> It could be modeled as a series of segments of flights rather than
>> circling the earth at the equator. Each segment would have a speed
>> component and an altitude component. Add up the effects over the entire 
>> trip.

>Yes, but then you have to do the actual experiment.  And in the actual 
>experiment the pilot might have to fly higher than planned due to storms 
>in the area.  And a pilot may have to circle an airfield once or twice 
>if there is some kind of air traffic control problem.

Yes, so? You have to do the math for the segments actually flown, not the
path you originally wanted to fly.

>So, the math gives an IDEAL set of results.

No, you have to do the math for the actual path.
Just like if driving from A to B is 8 miles, but if a road is closed, and
you have to drive 12 miles, your odometer, gas usage, time etc. will 
correspond to the actual 12 mile route, not an ideal 8 mile route.

> The objective is NOT to get the 
>EXACT results predicted, the objective is to PROVE THE CONCEPT.

Well yes, the idea was to prove the GR prediction of the overall path.
But they had to do so for the actual routes flown, not any ideal route.

Getting as close as possible, accounting for measurement errors, validates
the models and says whether it can actually be used elsewhere.

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#472531

FromStakos Netakis <autp@wsalaws.np>
Date2018-09-20 20:44 +0000
Message-ID<po10r0$lq6$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#472527
the incontinence trouble stupid troll Michael Moroney wrote:

> Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> writes:
>>Yes, but then you have to do the actual experiment.  And in the actual
>>experiment the pilot might have to fly higher than planned due to storms
>>in the area.  And a pilot may have to circle an airfield once or twice
>>if there is some kind of air traffic control problem.
> 
> Yes, so? You have to do the math for the segments actually flown, not
> the path you originally wanted to fly.
> 
>>So, the math gives an IDEAL set of results.
> 
> No, you have to do the math for the actual path.
> Just like if driving from A to B is 8 miles, but if a road is closed,

it's "the road", not "a" road, cretin.

> and you have to drive 12 miles, your odometer, gas usage, time etc. will
> correspond to the actual 12 mile route, not an ideal 8 mile route.

Not in relativity. See it now, you are incompetent and stupid even in
small portions. You are a joke, in science and english.

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#472532

FromEd Lake <detect@newsguy.com>
Date2018-09-20 13:44 -0700
Message-ID<b2b824e5-97af-4f0d-a1da-d9f1f7e295df@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#472527
On Thursday, September 20, 2018 at 3:03:22 PM UTC-5, Michael Moroney wrote:
> Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> writes:
> 
> >On Wednesday, September 19, 2018 at 6:33:30 PM UTC-5, Michael Moroney wrote:
> >> Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> writes:
> >> 
> >> >What the map shows is that it would have been next to impossible for 
> >> >Hafele and Keating to have created an ACCURATE estimate of time dilation 
> >> >for their trips.  They were amazingly close, but they were using a model 
> >> >that did NOT represent reality, so they could not make perfectly accurate 
> >> >projections. 
> >> 
> >> It could be modeled as a series of segments of flights rather than
> >> circling the earth at the equator. Each segment would have a speed
> >> component and an altitude component. Add up the effects over the entire 
> >> trip.
> 
> >Yes, but then you have to do the actual experiment.  And in the actual 
> >experiment the pilot might have to fly higher than planned due to storms 
> >in the area.  And a pilot may have to circle an airfield once or twice 
> >if there is some kind of air traffic control problem.
> 
> Yes, so? You have to do the math for the segments actually flown, not the
> path you originally wanted to fly.

Okay, I never paid that much attention to when and how they did the math.
Their first report used the data they collected DURING the trips, and 
then they did the calculations as to what the Gravitational and Kinematic 
Relativistic time differences SHOULD BE be based upon that flight data.

Then they wrote a second report about what the clocks actually showed.

Note that their calculations show Gravitational AND KINEMATIC differences.
So, they calculated SR AND GR differences.

The actual clock data, of course, cannot separate GR from SR.  

> 
> >So, the math gives an IDEAL set of results.

> 
> > The objective is NOT to get the 
> >EXACT results predicted, the objective is to PROVE THE CONCEPT.
> 
> Well yes, the idea was to prove the GR prediction of the overall path.
> But they had to do so for the actual routes flown, not any ideal route.

Yes, you are right about the math using actual routes flown, not any ideal 
route.  

But you are wrong about "idea was to prove the GR prediction" only.

Read the paper.  The "Predicted relativistic time differences" are in 
Table 1 at the bottom of page 166.  They show calculated numbers for 
Gravitational AND Kinematic effects.  That is GR AND SR.

I'm no mathematician, but I doubt there is any way to calculate the time 
differences using ONLY GR equations.
   
> 
> Getting as close as possible, accounting for measurement errors, validates
> the models and says whether it can actually be used elsewhere.

Right.  Ordinarily, a "model" is created before the actual experiment.  In the 
case of H&K, they collected flight data AS THEY DID the experiment.  So, 
their "model" was actually just the basic math using the collected data.

Then they compared the basic math to the actual results shown by the clocks.
The results were close enough to PROVE THE CONCEPT.  There could be no 
other explanation for the time differences shown by the traveling clocks 
versus the clock at the U.S. Naval Observatory.  The difference MUST have 
been caused by Gravitational AND Velocity time dilation. 

Ed

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#472551

Frommoroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)
Date2018-09-20 23:23 +0000
Message-ID<po1a4s$hkf$3@pcls7.std.com>
In reply to#472532
Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> writes:

>Note that their calculations show Gravitational AND KINEMATIC differences.
>So, they calculated SR AND GR differences.

As I already told you, it's all GR. It is a very common shortcut to make
the math simpler by TREATING IT as two separate effects, SR and 
gravity-only GR and adding them. H-K did use that shortcut, and why not,
it is accurate on/near the Earth.

All SR is is GR with gravity=0 everywhere, so all gravity terms are 0
and fall out.

>The actual clock data, of course, cannot separate GR from SR.  

Of course it's all GR.

>Yes, you are right about the math using actual routes flown, not any ideal 
>route.  

>But you are wrong about "idea was to prove the GR prediction" only.

>Read the paper.  The "Predicted relativistic time differences" are in 
>Table 1 at the bottom of page 166.  They show calculated numbers for 
>Gravitational AND Kinematic effects.  That is GR AND SR.

Once again they did use the mathematical shortcut. Why can't you 
understand that? Read Einstein's GR papers.

>I'm no mathematician, but I doubt there is any way to calculate the time 
>differences using ONLY GR equations.

Yet again, SR is just GR with no gravity, so "ONLY GR equations" work
just fine. The SR simplification is much easier to use than GR, of course.

>> Getting as close as possible, accounting for measurement errors, validates
>> the models and says whether it can actually be used elsewhere.

>Right.  Ordinarily, a "model" is created before the actual experiment.

Not necessarily. The results of an experiment can lead to a hypothesis
which has a new model associated with it.  Of course then science states
you need to verify the model with additional experiments.

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#472574

FromStakos Netakis <autp@wsalaws.np>
Date2018-09-21 09:29 +0000
Message-ID<po2dlc$kvb$2@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#472551
the impertinent and uneducated Michael Moroney regurgitates:

> Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> writes:
> 
>>Note that their calculations show Gravitational AND KINEMATIC
>>differences.
>>So, they calculated SR AND GR differences.
> 
> As I already told you, it's all GR. It is a very common shortcut to make
> the math simpler by TREATING IT as two separate effects, SR and
> gravity-only GR and adding them. H-K did use that shortcut, and why not,
> it is accurate on/near the Earth.

You can't speak english, you uneducated sack of garbage. The above just 
serves as another proof. Stop involving yourself in physics. Ed Lake is by 
far more initiated in the field, than you are. 

You are appeasing people to say, as for instance, that uo momma is so fat, 
I took a picture of her last Christmas and it's still printing. 

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#472589

FromEd Lake <detect@newsguy.com>
Date2018-09-21 06:57 -0700
Message-ID<8896432a-44d4-4c63-9cc5-b5a713227045@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#472551
On Thursday, September 20, 2018 at 6:23:10 PM UTC-5, Michael Moroney wrote:
> Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> writes:
> 
> >Note that their calculations show Gravitational AND KINEMATIC differences.
> >So, they calculated SR AND GR differences.
> 
> As I already told you, it's all GR. It is a very common shortcut to make
> the math simpler by TREATING IT as two separate effects, SR and 
> gravity-only GR and adding them. H-K did use that shortcut, and why not,
> it is accurate on/near the Earth.
> 
> All SR is is GR with gravity=0 everywhere, so all gravity terms are 0
> and fall out.

Yes, you told me that you believe "it's all GR."  But we're discussing the 
H&K experiment, and they calculated SR and GR separately.  Plus, there are 
people here who claim that SR time dilation is reciprocal but GR is not.

Plus when doing experiments EVERYONE seems to calculate SR separate from GR 
except you.

So arguing that "SR is just GR with no gravity" is a pointless argument 
when everyone else views them separately in experiments. We cannot discuss 
time dilation without distinguishing what kind of time dilation and the 
CAUSE of the time dilation.      

> >Right.  Ordinarily, a "model" is created before the actual experiment.
> 
> Not necessarily. The results of an experiment can lead to a hypothesis
> which has a new model associated with it.  Of course then science states
> you need to verify the model with additional experiments.

Okay, I can see that if I generalize, you will find some exception to use 
to create another tedious pointless argument.  I said "ordinarily," which 
MEANS there CAN BE exceptions.

Ed

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#472591

Fromrotchm <rotchm@gmail.com>
Date2018-09-21 07:28 -0700
Message-ID<a7b5c16d-5fd8-4a1a-b5de-b74ac302ea07@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#472589
On Friday, September 21, 2018 at 9:57:43 AM UTC-4, Ed Lake wrote:

> Plus, there are 
> people here who claim that SR time dilation is reciprocal but GR is not.

And they are correct. But the question is, do you understand what they mean when they say that? IOW, do u understand what u read?

> Plus when doing experiments EVERYONE seems to calculate SR 
> separate from GR  except you.

GR suffices; SR is not needed in that case. But yes, unfortunately, many people them separately thereby misleading the rookie into believing that both SR & GR are needed. 


> So arguing that "SR is just GR with no gravity" is a pointless argument 
> when everyone else views them separately in experiments.

No, not everyone. Idiots seperate them, and some sloppy authors seperate them. But as I said, just with GR, one gets the correct result. 

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#472607

FromPaparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl>
Date2018-09-21 10:54 -0700
Message-ID<959b76c9-0b8d-4334-9b63-3f67b3004599@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#472589
El viernes, 21 de septiembre de 2018, 10:57:43 (UTC-3), Ed Lake  escribió:
> On Thursday, September 20, 2018 at 6:23:10 PM UTC-5, Michael Moroney wrote:

> Yes, you told me that you believe "it's all GR."  But we're discussing the 
> H&K experiment, and they calculated SR and GR separately.  Plus, there are 
> people here who claim that SR time dilation is reciprocal but GR is not.
> 

Once more you show your total ignorance in relativity. General Relativity
deals with the more general cases, where gravitation and large speeds are
common. But General Relativity equations reduce (as a limit) to Special
Relativity when the effects of gravitation are minimum. Furthermore, Special
Relativity reduces (as a limit) to Newtonian Mechanics when the relative speeds
v<<c.

See the paper from Paul Andersen at

https://paulba.no/pdf/GPS_clock_rate.pdf

where he derives, starting from the Schwarzschild metric (a GR solution of the
GR Einstein equations), the gravitational time dilation (equation 10) and the
kinematic time dilation (equation 11) and, finally the combined effect (equation
12).

Therefore, Hafele and Keating did use General Relativity in their predictions.

> Plus when doing experiments EVERYONE seems to calculate SR separate from GR 
> except you.
> 

This is a figment of your very poor imagination.

> So arguing that "SR is just GR with no gravity" is a pointless argument 
> when everyone else views them separately in experiments. We cannot discuss 
> time dilation without distinguishing what kind of time dilation and the 
> CAUSE of the time dilation.      
> 

Nonsense, see above.

You should really stop publishing embarrasing posts and just study a little.

Since you dislike mathematics, try more up to your level books such as:

Stephen Hawking, "The Universe in a Nutshell" Bantam 2001

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