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Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #460331 > unrolled thread

Apollo 11

Started bynumbernumber1964@gmail.com
First post2018-06-04 15:44 -0700
Last post2018-06-22 16:12 -0700
Articles 20 on this page of 187 — 21 participants

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  Apollo 11 numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2018-06-04 15:44 -0700
    Re: Apollo 11 Vaughn Fleck <guah@nhnw.nc> - 2018-06-04 23:09 +0000
    Re: Apollo 11 Steve BH <sbharris@gmail.com> - 2018-06-04 19:58 -0700
      Re: Apollo 11 intuitionist1@gmail.com - 2018-06-06 08:26 -0700
        Re: Apollo 11 Zandra Sobczak <acako@raswa.bo> - 2018-06-06 16:03 +0000
          Re: Apollo 11 dlzc <dlzc1@cox.net> - 2018-06-06 09:13 -0700
            Re: Apollo 11 Zandra Sobczak <acako@raswa.bo> - 2018-06-06 17:05 +0000
            Re: Apollo 11 intuitionist1@gmail.com - 2018-06-06 11:53 -0700
              Re: Apollo 11 Zandra Sobczak <acako@raswa.bo> - 2018-06-06 20:09 +0000
                Re: Apollo 11 intuitionist1@gmail.com - 2018-06-07 06:06 -0700
                  Re: Apollo 11 Steve BH <sbharris@gmail.com> - 2018-06-07 07:35 -0700
                    Re: Apollo 11 intuitionist1@gmail.com - 2018-06-08 05:56 -0700
                      Re: Apollo 11 Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-06-08 12:53 -0700
                        Re: Apollo 11 intuitionist1@gmail.com - 2018-06-09 15:36 -0700
    Re: Apollo 11 numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2018-06-07 10:12 -0700
      Re: Apollo 11 Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-06-07 17:39 +0000
      Re: Apollo 11 Volney <volney@volney.invalid> - 2018-06-07 13:40 -0400
      Re: Apollo 11 Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-06-07 10:46 -0700
        Re: Apollo 11 Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-06-07 13:29 -0700
      Re: Apollo 11 Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-06-07 13:23 -0700
        Re: Apollo 11 Steve BH <sbharris@gmail.com> - 2018-06-08 08:36 -0700
          Re: Apollo 11 Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-06-08 12:56 -0700
    Re: Apollo 11 numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2018-06-07 12:17 -0700
      Re: Apollo 11 Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-06-07 20:57 +0000
    Re: Apollo 11 numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2018-06-07 12:19 -0700
      Re: Apollo 11 Volney <volney@volney.invalid> - 2018-06-07 15:47 -0400
    Re: Apollo 11 numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2018-06-07 12:22 -0700
      Re: Apollo 11 Steve BH <sbharris@gmail.com> - 2018-06-07 12:51 -0700
      Re: Apollo 11 Steve BH <sbharris@gmail.com> - 2018-06-07 12:54 -0700
      Re: Apollo 11 Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-06-07 14:47 -0700
        Re: Apollo 11 Zandra Sobczak <acako@raswa.bo> - 2018-06-08 17:03 +0000
    Re: Apollo 11 furthermore7990662@gmail.com - 2018-06-08 09:40 -0700
    Re: Apollo 11 furthermore7990662@gmail.com - 2018-06-08 09:41 -0700
      Re: Apollo 11 Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-06-08 17:00 +0000
    Re: Apollo 11 furthermore7990662@gmail.com - 2018-06-08 09:45 -0700
      Re: Apollo 11 Steve BH <sbharris@gmail.com> - 2018-06-08 22:06 -0700
    Re: Apollo 11 furthermore7990662@gmail.com - 2018-06-08 10:37 -0700
      Re: Apollo 11 Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-06-08 17:48 +0000
      Re: Apollo 11 Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-06-08 12:59 -0700
    Re: Apollo 11 furthermore7990662@gmail.com - 2018-06-08 12:29 -0700
      Re: Apollo 11 Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-06-08 20:54 +0000
      Re: Apollo 11 Steve BH <sbharris@gmail.com> - 2018-06-08 22:14 -0700
        Re: Apollo 11 Zandra Sobczak <acako@raswa.bo> - 2018-06-09 15:10 +0000
          Re: Apollo 11 Steve BH <sbharris@gmail.com> - 2018-06-10 22:15 -0700
            Re: Apollo 11 Zandra Sobczak <acako@raswa.bo> - 2018-06-12 18:38 +0000
              Re: Apollo 11 Steve BH <sbharris@gmail.com> - 2018-06-16 16:33 -0700
              Re: Apollo 11 Steve BH <sbharris@gmail.com> - 2018-06-16 21:33 -0700
                Re: Apollo 11 Werner Ballard <db@ocoak.bn> - 2018-06-17 11:36 +0000
                  Re: Apollo 11 Steve BH <sbharris@gmail.com> - 2018-06-17 10:29 -0700
                    Re: Apollo 11 John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2018-06-20 18:08 -0700
    Re: Apollo 11 furthermore7990662@gmail.com - 2018-06-08 12:29 -0700
      Re: Apollo 11 Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-06-08 15:26 -0700
        Re: Apollo 11 Zandra Sobczak <acako@raswa.bo> - 2018-06-09 15:13 +0000
          Re: Apollo 11 Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-06-10 17:26 -0700
            Re: Apollo 11 Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-06-10 17:41 -0700
              Re: Apollo 11 Zandra Sobczak <acako@raswa.bo> - 2018-06-12 18:50 +0000
            Re: Apollo 11 Zandra Sobczak <acako@raswa.bo> - 2018-06-12 18:48 +0000
              Re: Apollo 11 Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-06-13 09:27 -0700
                Re: Apollo 11 Pasquale Broman <lqs@basq.ce> - 2018-06-13 20:36 +0000
    Re: Apollo 11 furthermore7990662@gmail.com - 2018-06-11 09:21 -0700
      Re: Apollo 11 Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-06-11 16:36 +0000
    Re: Apollo 11 furthermore7990662@gmail.com - 2018-06-11 09:23 -0700
    Re: Apollo 11 furthermore7990662@gmail.com - 2018-06-11 09:25 -0700
      Re: Apollo 11 Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-06-11 16:36 +0000
    Re: Apollo 11 furthermore7990662@gmail.com - 2018-06-11 09:27 -0700
    Re: Apollo 11 furthermore7990662@gmail.com - 2018-06-11 09:34 -0700
      Re: Apollo 11 Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-06-11 10:37 -0700
    Re: Apollo 11 furthermore7990662@gmail.com - 2018-06-11 09:40 -0700
      Re: Apollo 11 Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-06-11 16:56 +0000
    Re: Apollo 11 furthermore7990662@gmail.com - 2018-06-11 09:42 -0700
      Re: Apollo 11 Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-06-11 16:56 +0000
    Re: Apollo 11 furthermore7990662@gmail.com - 2018-06-11 12:23 -0700
      Re: Apollo 11 Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-06-11 14:45 -0700
    Re: Apollo 11 furthermore7990662@gmail.com - 2018-06-11 12:25 -0700
      Re: Apollo 11 Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-06-11 19:57 +0000
    Re: Apollo 11 numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2018-06-11 12:50 -0700
    Re: Apollo 11 numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2018-06-11 12:51 -0700
    Re: Apollo 11 numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2018-06-11 12:55 -0700
    Re: Apollo 11 numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2018-06-11 13:29 -0700
      Re: Apollo 11 Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-06-11 20:45 +0000
    Re: Apollo 11 numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2018-06-11 13:36 -0700
      Re: Apollo 11 Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-06-11 20:49 +0000
    Re: Apollo 11 numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2018-06-11 14:31 -0700
    Re: Apollo 11 numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2018-06-11 15:00 -0700
    Re: Apollo 11 numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2018-06-12 09:35 -0700
    Re: Apollo 11 numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2018-06-12 09:36 -0700
      Re: Apollo 11 Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-06-13 09:17 -0700
        Re: Apollo 11 Steve BH <sbharris@gmail.com> - 2018-06-13 19:47 -0700
    Re: Apollo 11 numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2018-06-12 09:37 -0700
      Re: Apollo 11 Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-06-13 09:19 -0700
    Re: Apollo 11 numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2018-06-12 13:50 -0700
      Re: Apollo 11 Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-06-12 22:06 +0000
      Re: Apollo 11 Steve BH <sbharris@gmail.com> - 2018-06-12 15:45 -0700
    Re: Apollo 11 numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2018-06-12 15:29 -0700
      Re: Apollo 11 Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-06-12 23:21 +0000
    Re: Apollo 11 furthermore7990662@gmail.com - 2018-06-12 15:55 -0700
    Re: Apollo 11 furthermore7990662@gmail.com - 2018-06-12 15:58 -0700
      Re: Apollo 11 Steve BH <sbharris@gmail.com> - 2018-06-12 17:09 -0700
    Re: Apollo 11 furthermore7990662@gmail.com - 2018-06-12 17:12 -0700
      Re: Apollo 11 Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-06-13 00:50 +0000
      Re: Apollo 11 Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-06-13 09:31 -0700
    Re: Apollo 11 furthermore7990662@gmail.com - 2018-06-12 17:15 -0700
    Re: Apollo 11 furthermore7990662@gmail.com - 2018-06-12 17:20 -0700
      Re: Apollo 11 Steve BH <sbharris@gmail.com> - 2018-06-12 19:03 -0700
    Re: Apollo 11 numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2018-06-12 18:17 -0700
      Re: Apollo 11 Steve BH <sbharris@gmail.com> - 2018-06-12 20:17 -0700
    Re: Apollo 11 furthermore7990662@gmail.com - 2018-06-13 11:02 -0700
      Re: Apollo 11 Steve BH <sbharris@gmail.com> - 2018-06-13 20:07 -0700
    Re: Apollo 11 furthermore7990662@gmail.com - 2018-06-13 11:03 -0700
    Re: Apollo 11 furthermore7990662@gmail.com - 2018-06-13 11:05 -0700
      Re: Apollo 11 Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-06-14 07:02 -0700
        Re: Apollo 11 Werner Ballard <db@ocowak.br> - 2018-06-14 15:58 +0000
          Re: Apollo 11 Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-06-14 11:01 -0700
            Re: Apollo 11 Werner Ballard <db@ocoak.bn> - 2018-06-14 21:10 +0000
              Re: Apollo 11 Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-06-14 23:39 +0200
              Re: Apollo 11 Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-06-15 08:48 -0700
    Re: Apollo 11 numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2018-06-13 13:44 -0700
    Re: Apollo 11 numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2018-06-14 11:19 -0700
      Re: Apollo 11 Steve BH <sbharris@gmail.com> - 2018-06-14 16:55 -0700
        Re: Apollo 11 Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-06-14 19:21 -0500
          Re: Apollo 11 Steve BH <sbharris@gmail.com> - 2018-06-14 17:31 -0700
            Re: Apollo 11 Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-06-15 11:58 -0500
        Re: Apollo 11 Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2018-06-14 18:23 -0700
          Re: Apollo 11 Volney <volney@volney.invalid> - 2018-06-14 22:48 -0400
            Re: Apollo 11 Steve BH <sbharris@gmail.com> - 2018-06-14 22:23 -0700
          Re: Apollo 11 Steve BH <sbharris@gmail.com> - 2018-06-14 22:25 -0700
    Re: Apollo 11 numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2018-06-14 11:22 -0700
    Re: Apollo 11 numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2018-06-14 11:29 -0700
      Re: Apollo 11 Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-06-15 08:45 -0700
    Re: Apollo 11 numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2018-06-14 13:36 -0700
    Re: Apollo 11 furthermore7990662@gmail.com - 2018-06-14 15:45 -0700
      Re: Apollo 11 Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-06-15 08:50 -0700
    Re: Apollo 11 numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2018-06-14 17:13 -0700
      Re: Apollo 11 Steve BH <sbharris@gmail.com> - 2018-06-14 17:46 -0700
    Re: Apollo 11 numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2018-06-14 17:21 -0700
    Re: Apollo 11 numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2018-06-14 17:28 -0700
    Re: Apollo 11 furthermore7990662@gmail.com - 2018-06-15 11:24 -0700
      Re: Apollo 11 Steve BH <sbharris@gmail.com> - 2018-06-15 12:42 -0700
      Re: Apollo 11 Steve BH <sbharris@gmail.com> - 2018-06-15 13:26 -0700
    Re: Apollo 11 furthermore7990662@gmail.com - 2018-06-15 12:54 -0700
      Re: Apollo 11 Steve BH <sbharris@gmail.com> - 2018-06-15 13:21 -0700
      Re: Apollo 11 Steve BH <sbharris@gmail.com> - 2018-06-15 13:29 -0700
    Re: Apollo 11 furthermore7990662@gmail.com - 2018-06-15 13:36 -0700
      Re: Apollo 11 Steve BH <sbharris@gmail.com> - 2018-06-15 14:30 -0700
        Re: Apollo 11 Werner Ballard <db@ocoak.bn> - 2018-06-16 14:51 +0000
    Re: Apollo 11 numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2018-06-18 14:53 -0700
      Re: Apollo 11 Steve BH <sbharris@gmail.com> - 2018-06-18 21:11 -0700
        Re: Apollo 11 Zprávn Udoucih <zpnvn@nwinst.ce> - 2018-06-19 17:55 +0000
          Re: Apollo 11 Steve BH <sbharris@gmail.com> - 2018-06-19 16:25 -0700
            Re: Apollo 11 Zprávn Udoucih <zpnvn@nwinst.ce> - 2018-06-20 10:37 +0000
              Re: Apollo 11 Steve BH <sbharris@gmail.com> - 2018-06-20 15:33 -0700
                Re: Apollo 11 Oren Woodcock <uw@osiweoq.lp> - 2018-06-29 23:04 +0000
                  Re: Apollo 11 Steve BH <sbharris@gmail.com> - 2018-06-29 20:26 -0700
                    Re: Apollo 11 Oren Woodcock <uw@osiweoq.lp> - 2018-06-30 13:08 +0000
                      Re: Apollo 11 Steve BH <sbharris@gmail.com> - 2018-06-30 18:33 -0700
                        Re: Apollo 11 Volney <volney@volney.invalid> - 2018-06-30 22:00 -0400
                          Re: Apollo 11 Oren Woodcock <uw@osiweoq.lp> - 2018-07-01 10:57 +0000
                        Re: Apollo 11 Oren Woodcock <uw@osiweoq.lp> - 2018-07-01 11:00 +0000
          Re: Apollo 11 Steve BH <sbharris@gmail.com> - 2018-06-20 20:39 -0700
            Re: Apollo 11 Oren Woodcock <uw@woswiw.lw> - 2018-06-27 10:51 +0000
              Re: Apollo 11 Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-06-27 11:35 -0700
              Re: Apollo 11 Steve BH <sbharris@gmail.com> - 2018-06-27 14:18 -0700
                Re: Apollo 11 Oren Woodcock <uw@woswiw.lw> - 2018-06-28 09:09 +0000
    Re: Apollo 11 numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2018-06-18 15:05 -0700
      Re: Apollo 11 Steve BH <sbharris@gmail.com> - 2018-06-18 21:12 -0700
    Re: Apollo 11 furthermore7990662@gmail.com - 2018-06-19 14:17 -0700
      Re: Apollo 11 Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-06-19 22:44 +0000
      Re: Apollo 11 Steve BH <sbharris@gmail.com> - 2018-06-19 16:29 -0700
      Re: Apollo 11 Steve BH <sbharris@gmail.com> - 2018-06-19 16:37 -0700
      Re: Apollo 11 Steve BH <sbharris@gmail.com> - 2018-06-19 19:39 -0700
    Re: Apollo 11 furthermore7990662@gmail.com - 2018-06-19 15:53 -0700
      Re: Apollo 11 Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-06-19 23:21 +0000
    Re: Apollo 11 furthermore7990662@gmail.com - 2018-06-19 15:58 -0700
      Re: Apollo 11 Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-06-20 07:31 +0200
        Re: Apollo 11 Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-06-20 09:31 -0500
          Re: Apollo 11 Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-06-20 19:21 +0200
          Re: Apollo 11 Zprávn Udoucih <zpnvn@nwinst.ce> - 2018-06-20 18:37 +0000
            Re: Apollo 11 Steve BH <sbharris@gmail.com> - 2018-06-20 15:35 -0700
    Re: Apollo 11 carleto4157990662@gmail.com - 2018-06-19 16:47 -0700
    Re: Apollo 11 carleto4157990662@gmail.com - 2018-06-19 16:50 -0700
      Re: Apollo 11 Steve BH <sbharris@gmail.com> - 2018-06-19 19:42 -0700
    Re: Apollo 11 numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2018-06-20 08:57 -0700
      Re: Apollo 11 Steve BH <sbharris@gmail.com> - 2018-06-20 15:40 -0700
    Re: Apollo 11 numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2018-06-21 09:48 -0700
      Re: Apollo 11 Steve BH <sbharris@gmail.com> - 2018-06-21 13:21 -0700
      Re: Apollo 11 Steve BH <sbharris@gmail.com> - 2018-06-22 06:08 -0700
      Re: Apollo 11 Steve BH <sbharris@gmail.com> - 2018-06-22 16:12 -0700

Page 2 of 10 — ← Prev page 1 [2] 3 4 … 10  Next page →

#460681

FromSteve BH <sbharris@gmail.com>
Date2018-06-08 08:36 -0700
Message-ID<a52156ae-8535-4995-8235-bb7107dbd6b4@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#460631
The omnidirectional Moon antennas of course all compensated for with highly directional dish receivers. on Earth.

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#460714

FromEdward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com>
Date2018-06-08 12:56 -0700
Message-ID<dd35cd6a-533f-4260-9189-1ca636e61b2b@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#460681
On Friday, June 8, 2018 at 11:36:06 AM UTC-4, Steve BH wrote:
> The omnidirectional Moon antennas of course all compensated
> for with highly directional dish receivers. on Earth.

Steve, the omni antennas were for local communications.
Astronaut - lander on the moon
LEM - Command Module in orbit

I already posted the link for the NASA presentation about
all the antennas on the LEM and CM. Here it is again

https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20090015392.pdf 

HTH,
Ed

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#460617

Fromnumbernumber1964@gmail.com
Date2018-06-07 12:17 -0700
Message-ID<27f74ccd-11d8-4449-aa16-dc5849c3aa92@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#460331
Wrong formula to use for a focused dish transmitter. The formula you’re 
using is for a pole transmitter that an FM radio station might use. 

________________________________________________________


So what is the dispersion rate of a radio wave?

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#460641

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2018-06-07 20:57 +0000
Message-ID<pfc68f$5ef$3@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#460617
<numbernumber1964@gmail.com> wrote:
> Wrong formula to use for a focused dish transmitter. The formula you’re 
> using is for a pole transmitter that an FM radio station might use. 
> 
> ________________________________________________________
> 
> 
> So what is the dispersion rate of a radio wave?
> 

Depends on the shape of the transmitter, obviously. 
Note also that the dispersion rate of a 10W light bulb is different than
the dispersion rate of a 10W flashlight, which is different than the
dispersion rate of a 10W laser. 

-- 
Odd Bodkin — Maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#460618

Fromnumbernumber1964@gmail.com
Date2018-06-07 12:19 -0700
Message-ID<50b14cd6-1bf0-45df-89f5-dd8ad444872c@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#460331
1kW? Why would NASA, with access to super dish antennas, use such a 
wimpy ERP?

_________________________________________________________


https://www.google.com/search?q=apollo+11+radio+communication+system&rlz=1C1GCEA_enUS800US800&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjn9fCrosLbAhV1OX0KHSfmAqUQ_AUICigB&biw=1600&bih=769#imgrc=Js_C60xzJzeOYM:


This looks like about 1 k W?

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#460624

FromVolney <volney@volney.invalid>
Date2018-06-07 15:47 -0400
Message-ID<pfc24p$1ef$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#460618
On 6/7/2018 3:19 PM, numbernumber1964@gmail.com wrote:
> 1kW? Why would NASA, with access to super dish antennas, use such a
> wimpy ERP?
> 
> _________________________________________________________
> 
> 
> https://www.google.com/search?q=apollo+11+radio+communication+system&rlz=1C1GCEA_enUS800US800&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjn9fCrosLbAhV1OX0KHSfmAqUQ_AUICigB&biw=1600&bih=769#imgrc=Js_C60xzJzeOYM:
> 
> 
> This looks like about 1 k W?

With those nice dishes on the lunar rover and next to the lander? Those 
will produce a wonderful ERP if fed with any nontrivial power!

(since you seem to have highlighted what's apparently a transmitter, I 
assume you have no clue what I mean by the ERP and only care about the 
transmitter power. So, go back and reread the post where antenna gain is 
discussed)

(and you deleted the part about hams bouncing radio signals off the moon 
with a 1 kW transmitter [actual input power, not ERP]. I have seen that 
done _in person_. US law for amateur radio restricted transmitter power 
to 1kW input, meaning even less than that actual output power. But no US 
restriction on ERP! Just the laws of physics!)

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#460619

Fromnumbernumber1964@gmail.com
Date2018-06-07 12:22 -0700
Message-ID<35c7c9fe-1db3-458e-a59e-07f24b534a31@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#460331
Then if the Apollo transmitted at Pt = 10 W (10 dBW), the received power 
was Pr = Pt + Gt - FSPL + Gr = 10+21.8-148.28+48.9 = -67.6 dBW, 
which is easily detected. 

___________________________________


10 W is going to give you 100 mile range and microwaves does not increase the range.

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#460625

FromSteve BH <sbharris@gmail.com>
Date2018-06-07 12:51 -0700
Message-ID<5eeb4f0a-47b6-4411-b2bc-f774308ff336@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#460619
On Thursday, June 7, 2018 at 12:22:21 PM UTC-7, numbernu...@gmail.com wrote:
> Then if the Apollo transmitted at Pt = 10 W (10 dBW), the received power 
> was Pr = Pt + Gt - FSPL + Gr = 10+21.8-148.28+48.9 = -67.6 dBW, 
> which is easily detected. 
> 
> ___________________________________
> 
> 
> 10 W is going to give you 100 mile range and microwaves does not increase the range.


How far away can you see a 10 watt (not milliwatt) green laser pointed at you, vs. a standard 100 W bulb that radiates 10 watts of vivible light (in all directions). 10 watts directed vs. 10 watts not.

It's the same question. Ten watts directed and focused is not all the same thing as 10 watts radiated in all directions. 

Microwaves help because the focusing power of a dish antenna is in terns of number of wavelengths across the dish is.

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#460626

FromSteve BH <sbharris@gmail.com>
Date2018-06-07 12:54 -0700
Message-ID<8be70be8-6d55-4a42-b096-e823bd546a1f@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#460619
On Thursday, June 7, 2018 at 12:22:21 PM UTC-7, numbernu...@gmail.com wrote:
> Then if the Apollo transmitted at Pt = 10 W (10 dBW), the received power 
> was Pr = Pt + Gt - FSPL + Gr = 10+21.8-148.28+48.9 = -67.6 dBW, 
> which is easily detected. 
> 
> ___________________________________
> 
> 
> 10 W is going to give you 100 mile range and microwaves does not increase the range.


No, a camera on the moon can see a 10 watt laser directed at it from the dark side of the Earth. That experiment was done with a Surveyor in the 1960's.

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#460645

FromPaparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl>
Date2018-06-07 14:47 -0700
Message-ID<df64fbff-7a10-469a-89b6-60586e0195e2@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#460619
El jueves, 7 de junio de 2018, 15:22:21 (UTC-4), numbernu...@gmail.com  escribió:
> Then if the Apollo transmitted at Pt = 10 W (10 dBW), the received power 
> was Pr = Pt + Gt - FSPL + Gr = 10+21.8-148.28+48.9 = -67.6 dBW, 
> which is easily detected. 
> 
> ___________________________________
> 
> 
> 10 W is going to give you 100 mile range and microwaves does not increase the range.

Nonsense. You do not know what you are talking about!!

All long range radio (like the one of Cassini at Saturn) do operate at
relatively low power (43 dBm at the satellite in the Cassini case, that is 13
dBW or 20 Watts of transmitter power). 

See https://descanso.jpl.nasa.gov/DPSummary/Descanso3--Cassini2.pdf for details.

The Cassini antenna had a 47.2 dB gain, which together with all losses, gives an
EIRP of 88.1 dBm (see table 5-2).

The free space loss from Saturn orbit is a whooping 294.4 dB.

The gain of the receiver antennas (DSN) is 68.24 dB.

So the total receiver power is -137.87 dBm

And the final result is that the receiver Pt/No is 45.19 dB-Hz, and the received
pictures prove that the signals from Saturn are easily received!!!

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#460698

FromZandra Sobczak <acako@raswa.bo>
Date2018-06-08 17:03 +0000
Message-ID<pfecsh$1opl$3@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#460645
Paparios wrote:

>> 10 W is going to give you 100 mile range and microwaves does not
>> increase the range.
> 
> Nonsense. You do not know what you are talking about!!
> All long range radio (like the one of Cassini at Saturn) do operate at
> relatively low power (43 dBm at the satellite in the Cassini case, that
> is 13 dBW or 20 Watts of transmitter power).

my friendos, the radio amateurs are been using the moon as reference from 
the very beginning. No "mirror" is required. The Moon itself is the mirror.

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#460687

Fromfurthermore7990662@gmail.com
Date2018-06-08 09:40 -0700
Message-ID<a9c6a56c-b1c7-4287-9979-0a72a6668206@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#460331
With those nice dishes on the lunar rover and next to the lander? Those 
will produce a wonderful ERP if fed with any nontrivial power! ..

_____________________________________________________________________


A microwave is a radio wave. After leaving the dish a radio wave disperses  dependent on the inverse of the second order of the distance I = A cos2(kr)/r2 . After propagating the distance of 238,000 miles (3.83 x 10^8 m) the intensity of a 1 kW radio signal would be reduced to 10-13 W which is not detectable.

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#460688

Fromfurthermore7990662@gmail.com
Date2018-06-08 09:41 -0700
Message-ID<dafb3289-9feb-48ad-a842-7d1abcb1a9b0@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#460331
How far away can you see a 10 watt (not milliwatt) green laser pointed at you, vs. a standard 100 W bulb that radiates 10 watts of vivible light (in all directions)


_____________________________________________________


A laser does not produce a radio signal.

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#460697

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2018-06-08 17:00 +0000
Message-ID<pfecoa$1r3o$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#460688
<furthermore7990662@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> How far away can you see a 10 watt (not milliwatt) green laser pointed at
> you, vs. a standard 100 W bulb that radiates 10 watts of vivible light (in all directions)
> 
> 
> _____________________________________________________
> 
> 
> A laser does not produce a radio signal.
> 

Laser light and radio waves are both electromagnetic radiation. The
dispersion properties for both depend on the shape of the transmitter. A
radio dish has the same shape as the parabolic reflector in a household
flashlight for a reason. 

Is there some rational reason why everyday examples do not dissuade you
from repeating simple errors?

-- 
Odd Bodkin — Maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#460693

Fromfurthermore7990662@gmail.com
Date2018-06-08 09:45 -0700
Message-ID<db492526-9265-4eb0-9209-be161ab3ee66@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#460331
Depends on the shape of the transmitter, obviously. 
Note also that the dispersion rate of a 10W light bulb is different than 
the dispersion rate of a 10W flashlight, which is different than the 
dispersion rate of a 10W laser.....


_________________________________________


Again, laser or flashlight does not produce a radio signal.

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#460760

FromSteve BH <sbharris@gmail.com>
Date2018-06-08 22:06 -0700
Message-ID<0e0ddc15-0acf-4413-b008-4b267f48c0a1@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#460693
On Friday, June 8, 2018 at 9:45:20 AM UTC-7, furthermo...@gmail.com wrote:
> Depends on the shape of the transmitter, obviously. 
> Note also that the dispersion rate of a 10W light bulb is different than 
> the dispersion rate of a 10W flashlight, which is different than the 
> dispersion rate of a 10W laser.....
> 
> 
> _________________________________________
> 
> 
> Again, laser or flashlight does not produce a radio signal.


But an antenna DOES produce coherent EM radiation, just like a laser, so the comparison is apt. What is difficult to do with visible light is the norm in radio and microwave generation. Like a laser, this longer wave EM radiation can then easily be focused into a tight beam, with divergence limited only by the width of the collector (actually a ratio of wavelength to antenna diameter).

With a big dish we can not only communicate with Voyager probes outside the solar system (which each have a small dish), but two radio dishes the size of Arecibo, with its 2.5 megawatt transmitter, it could in theory communicate with each other across the width of our galaxy. Closer to home, the Arecibo can hear amateur HAM messages bounced off the Moon. This doesn't even require an antenna on the Moon-- the radar is bounced off Lunar soil.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arecibo_Observatory

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth%E2%80%93Moon%E2%80%93Earth_communication

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#460701

Fromfurthermore7990662@gmail.com
Date2018-06-08 10:37 -0700
Message-ID<8b04fdf5-204d-4ccc-850e-1a4067188c92@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#460331
Laser light and radio waves are both electromagnetic radiation.. The 
dispersion properties for both depend on the shape of the transmitter.. A 
radio dish has the same shape as the parabolic reflector in a household 
flashlight for a reason.. 

_______________________________________________________


A parabolic reflector does not change the fact that a laser does not produce a radio signal.

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#460704

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2018-06-08 17:48 +0000
Message-ID<pfefhk$bs$3@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#460701
<furthermore7990662@gmail.com> wrote:
> Laser light and radio waves are both electromagnetic radiation.. The 
> dispersion properties for both depend on the shape of the transmitter.. A 
> radio dish has the same shape as the parabolic reflector in a household 
> flashlight for a reason.. 
> 
> _______________________________________________________
> 
> 
> A parabolic reflector does not change the fact that a laser does not
> produce a radio signal.
> 

Alright. But it is STILL true that the dispersion rate for a radio wave
depends on the shape of the transmitter, and you cited the wrong dispersion
rate for the shape of the transmitter used by NASA for Apollo. 

-- 
Odd Bodkin — Maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#460715

FromEdward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com>
Date2018-06-08 12:59 -0700
Message-ID<affd4a89-3797-4837-a721-290612524f0a@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#460701
On Friday, June 8, 2018 at 1:37:15 PM UTC-4, furthermo...@gmail.com wrote:
> Laser light and radio waves are both electromagnetic radiation.. The 
> dispersion properties for both depend on the shape of the transmitter.. A 
> radio dish has the same shape as the parabolic reflector in a household 
> flashlight for a reason.. 
> 
> _______________________________________________________
> 
> 
> A parabolic reflector does not change the fact that a laser
> does not produce a radio signal.

Which just shows you are incapable of understanding
the examples presented to you.
ed

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#460709

Fromfurthermore7990662@gmail.com
Date2018-06-08 12:29 -0700
Message-ID<46c9f880-0125-4938-abcd-862ee9efc313@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#460331
Alright. But it is STILL true that the dispersion. rate for a radio wave 
depends on the shape of the transmitter, and you .cited the wrong dispersion 
rate for the shape of the transmitter used by NASA. for Apollo. 


___________________________________


The shape of the dish concentrates the radio wave and does not change the inherent structure of a radio wave that is based on spherical waves.

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