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Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #422004 > unrolled thread

Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error.

Started by"HGW..." <hgw@....>
First post2017-06-09 10:02 +1000
Last post2017-06-12 11:35 +1000
Articles 20 on this page of 276 — 31 participants

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Contents

  Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-06-09 10:02 +1000
    Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2017-06-08 19:02 -0700
      Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-07-07 16:54 -0700
        Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-07-09 10:03 +1000
          Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-07-09 02:14 +0000
            Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Ursler Zilberschlag <ursler@zilbersch.org> - 2017-07-09 09:44 +0000
    Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-06-08 19:14 -0700
      Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-06-08 19:16 -0700
      Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-06-09 12:38 +1000
        Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-06-08 21:09 -0700
          Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-06-09 17:09 +1000
    Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. dancouriann@gmail.com - 2017-06-08 19:15 -0700
      Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-06-09 12:36 +1000
        Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2017-06-08 19:56 -0700
          Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Jim Limey <eeug@dnne.ri> - 2017-06-09 15:32 +0000
            Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2017-06-09 17:19 -0700
              Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Kitubu Nkyaku <akntuu@buwkau.kk> - 2017-06-10 10:46 +0000
                Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2017-06-10 10:38 -0700
                  Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Bilového Hlumu <zbuuz@nwtwzwz.lb> - 2017-06-10 18:18 +0000
                  Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Rhett Doucet <ttdh@etoe.ee> - 2017-06-19 13:42 +0000
        Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. dancouriann@gmail.com - 2017-06-08 21:28 -0700
          Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-06-09 17:06 +1000
            Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. dancouriann@gmail.com - 2017-06-09 06:25 -0700
              Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-06-09 06:34 -0700
                Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2017-06-09 17:20 -0700
                  Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-06-10 01:43 -0700
              Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-06-10 08:58 +1000
                Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-06-09 16:05 -0700
                  Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW, DSc." <HG@....> - 2017-06-10 20:17 +1000
                Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. dancouriann@gmail.com - 2017-06-09 17:15 -0700
                  Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2017-06-09 17:41 -0700
                    Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-06-10 01:44 -0700
                  Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-06-10 01:45 -0700
                  Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW, DSc." <HG@....> - 2017-06-10 20:44 +1000
                    Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. dancouriann@gmail.com - 2017-06-10 08:05 -0700
                      Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW, DSc." <HG@....> - 2017-06-11 05:56 +1000
                        Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. dancouriann@gmail.com - 2017-06-10 16:18 -0700
                    Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-10 12:45 -0500
                      Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW, DSc." <HG@....> - 2017-06-11 05:26 +1000
                        Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-11 00:44 +0000
                  Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. chanrasjid@gmail.com - 2017-06-23 01:58 -0700
                    Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-06-23 09:02 -0500
                      Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. chanrasjid@gmail.com - 2017-06-23 07:46 -0700
                        Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-06-25 09:27 +1000
                          Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-06-25 01:21 +0000
                Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-10 12:43 -0500
                  Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW, DSc." <HG@....> - 2017-06-11 06:08 +1000
                    Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-06-11 00:49 +0000
            Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-06-09 14:37 +0000
              Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-06-09 08:12 -0700
              Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-06-10 09:03 +1000
                Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-06-10 06:26 +0000
                  Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW, DSc." <HG@....> - 2017-06-10 20:30 +1000
                    Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-06-10 16:31 +0000
                      Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW, DSc." <HG@....> - 2017-06-11 06:09 +1000
                        Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-06-11 01:11 +0000
                          Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-06-11 14:18 +1000
                            Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-11 15:57 -0500
                              Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-06-12 01:45 +0200
                              Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-06-12 00:22 +0000
                                Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-06-12 11:37 +1000
                                  Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-06-12 03:39 +0000
                                    Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-06-12 20:22 +1000
                                      Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-06-12 15:38 +0000
                                        Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-12 13:45 -0500
                                        Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW, DSc." <HG@....> - 2017-06-13 05:00 +1000
              Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW, DSc." <HG@....> - 2017-06-10 20:28 +1000
                Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-06-10 22:56 -0500
                  Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-06-11 14:27 +1000
                    Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-11 11:38 +0000
                      Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-06-11 04:42 -0700
                      Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW, DSc." <HG@....> - 2017-06-13 05:01 +1000
                    Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-06-11 16:34 +0200
                      Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. xxein1x1@gmail.com - 2017-06-11 12:57 -0700
                        Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. xxein1x1@gmail.com - 2017-06-11 13:03 -0700
                          Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-06-11 22:41 +0200
                        Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-06-11 22:40 +0200
                          Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. xxein1x1@gmail.com - 2017-06-11 15:30 -0700
                            Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-06-12 01:38 +0200
                          Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-06-12 10:55 +1000
                            Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-06-12 10:45 +0200
                              Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-06-12 20:24 +1000
                                Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Selina Dieter <uiueeits@wlwtwstd.ci> - 2017-06-12 11:01 +0000
                                  Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW, DSc." <HG@....> - 2017-06-13 03:58 +1000
                                    Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Selina Dieter <uiueeits@wlwtwstd.ci> - 2017-06-12 18:12 +0000
                                      Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW, DSc." <HG@....> - 2017-06-13 04:50 +1000
                                        Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Selina Dieter <uiueeits@wlwtwstd.ci> - 2017-06-12 18:55 +0000
                                          Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW, DSc." <HG@....> - 2017-06-13 05:20 +1000
                                Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-12 13:48 -0500
                                  Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-06-13 11:04 +1000
                                    Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-06-13 16:00 +0000
                                    Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-13 15:12 -0500
                        Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-06-13 16:08 -0500
                          Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Lolek Atoru <oitiruc@rwuca.oa> - 2017-06-13 21:16 +0000
                            Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-06-15 17:57 +0200
                              Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Lolek Atoru <oitiruc@rwuca.oa> - 2017-06-15 16:05 +0000
                          Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-06-13 21:38 +0000
                            Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-06-13 19:14 -0500
                              Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-06-14 02:34 +0000
                                Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-14 02:45 +0000
                                  Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-06-13 23:18 -0500
                                    Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-06-14 17:44 +0000
                                      Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-06-16 21:06 -0500
                                        Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-06-20 15:26 +0000
                                          Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-06-23 09:41 +1000
                          Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-06-13 21:54 +0000
                            Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-06-13 22:46 -0500
                    Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-06-12 09:28 -0500
                    Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-06-12 09:28 -0500
                      Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW, DSc." <HG@....> - 2017-06-13 04:04 +1000
                        Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2017-06-12 11:39 -0700
                          Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Selina Dieter <uiueeits@wlwtwstd.ci> - 2017-06-12 18:44 +0000
                        Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-12 13:51 -0500
                          Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW, DSc." <HG@....> - 2017-06-13 05:26 +1000
                            Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-06-12 19:51 +0000
                              Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-06-13 10:55 +1000
                                Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-06-13 15:49 +0000
                                  Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-06-14 13:12 +1000
                                    Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-06-14 04:47 +0000
                                    Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-14 11:32 -0500
                                      Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW, DSc." <HG@....> - 2017-06-15 06:09 +1000
                                        Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-06-15 02:05 +0000
                                        Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-06-15 02:24 +0000
                                          Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. xxein1x1@gmail.com - 2017-06-14 19:41 -0700
                                          Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW, DSc." <HG@....> - 2017-06-15 20:17 +1000
                                            Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-06-15 13:14 +0000
                            Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-13 15:13 -0500
                              Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-06-14 13:14 +1000
                                Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-06-14 04:52 +0000
                                Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-06-14 15:44 -0500
                                  Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW, DSc." <HG@....> - 2017-06-15 07:37 +1000
                                    Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2017-06-17 11:21 -0700
                                  Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. xxein1x1@gmail.com - 2017-06-14 15:32 -0700
                                    Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-06-15 09:16 +1000
                                      Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-06-15 16:12 -0500
                                        Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-06-16 15:30 +1000
            Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-06-10 00:33 -0500
              Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW, DSc." <HG@....> - 2017-06-10 20:36 +1000
    Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Helmut Wabnig <hwabnig@.- --- -.dotat> - 2017-06-09 08:28 +0200
    Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-09 07:51 -0500
      Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-06-10 09:14 +1000
        Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-06-10 00:50 -0500
          Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-06-10 17:23 +1000
          Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW, DSc." <HG@....> - 2017-06-10 20:58 +1000
            Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Kitubu Nkyaku <akntuu@buwkau.kk> - 2017-06-10 11:06 +0000
              Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW, DSc." <HG@....> - 2017-06-11 06:18 +1000
        Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-10 12:49 -0500
          Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-06-10 21:13 +0200
            Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-06-10 13:01 -0700
            Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW, DSc." <HG@....> - 2017-06-11 06:58 +1000
              Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-06-11 21:53 +0200
                Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. xxein1x1@gmail.com - 2017-06-11 14:39 -0700
                  Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-06-12 11:22 +1000
                Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-06-12 11:32 +1000
                  Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. xxein1x1@gmail.com - 2017-06-11 18:53 -0700
                    Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-06-12 20:28 +1000
                  Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-06-12 21:51 +0200
                    Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW, DSc." <HG@....> - 2017-06-14 21:57 +1000
                      Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-06-14 22:30 +0200
                        Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW, DSc." <HG@....> - 2017-06-15 07:31 +1000
                          Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. xxein1x1@gmail.com - 2017-06-14 16:19 -0700
                            Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-06-15 10:39 +1000
                              Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. xxein1x1@gmail.com - 2017-06-14 18:01 -0700
                                Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. xxein1x1@gmail.com - 2017-06-14 18:54 -0700
                              Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-06-15 00:04 -0500
                                Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW, DSc." <HG@....> - 2017-06-15 20:07 +1000
                                  Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-06-15 15:14 +0200
                                    Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW, DSc." <HG@....> - 2017-06-16 04:16 +1000
                                      Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-06-16 09:59 +0200
                                        Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-06-17 08:40 +1000
                                          Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-17 11:44 -0500
                                          Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-06-18 14:30 +0000
                                          Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-06-22 14:02 +0200
                                            Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-06-22 06:21 -0700
                                            Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-06-27 19:43 +0200
                                              Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-06-28 09:03 +1000
                                                Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-06-28 03:47 +0000
                                                Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-06-28 15:54 +0200
                                                  Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-06-29 09:43 +1000
                                                    Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-06-29 12:29 +0200
                                                      Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-07-01 09:47 +1000
                                                        Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-07-01 21:10 +0200
                                                          Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-07-02 11:58 +1000
                                                            Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-07-02 03:33 +0000
                                                              Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Buck Millard <uiidbm@apsuw.dl> - 2017-07-02 10:21 +0000
                                                            Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-07-02 14:31 +0200
                                                              Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-07-03 11:34 +1000
                                                                Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-07-03 20:59 +0200
                                                                  Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-07-04 09:39 +1000
                                                                    Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-07-04 15:10 +0200
                                                                      Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-07-05 09:28 +1000
                                                                        Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-07-05 00:04 +0000
                                                                          Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-07-05 12:22 +1000
                                                                            Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-07-04 20:45 -0700
                                                                            Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-07-05 03:57 +0000
                                                                            Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-07-05 12:37 -0500
                                                                              Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-07-06 10:27 +1000
                                                                                Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-07-06 00:44 +0000
                                                                                Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-07-06 03:03 +0000
                                                                            Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-07-05 12:38 -0500
                                                                        Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-07-05 02:59 +0000
                                        Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW, DSc." <HG@....> - 2017-07-04 04:08 +1000
                                          Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-07-03 22:11 +0200
                                            Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-07-04 08:32 +1000
                                              Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-07-04 14:40 +0200
                                                Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-07-05 09:36 +1000
                                                  Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-07-05 23:10 +0200
                                                    Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-07-06 10:39 +1000
                                                      Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-07-06 09:47 +0200
                                                        Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-07-06 20:09 +1000
                                                          Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-07-06 14:06 +0000
                                                            Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-07-06 22:20 +0200
                                                              Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-07-07 09:55 +1000
                                                                Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-07-07 16:16 +0200
                                                                  Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-07-08 09:28 +1000
                                                                Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-07-07 15:45 +0000
                                                                  Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-07-08 09:37 +1000
                                                                    Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-07-08 07:35 +0000
                                                                      Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-07-09 10:01 +1000
                                                                        Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-07-09 02:12 +0000
                                                                          Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Ursler Zilberschlag <ursler@zilbersch.org> - 2017-07-09 09:34 +0000
                                                                            Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-07-09 14:08 +0000
                                                                              Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Ursler Zilberschlag <ursler@zilbersch.org> - 2017-07-09 14:17 +0000
                                                                                Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-07-09 16:53 +0000
                                                                                  Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Ursler Zilberschlag <ursler@zilbersch.org> - 2017-07-09 17:23 +0000
                                                                                  Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Ursler Zilberschlag <ursler@zilbersch.org> - 2017-07-09 17:31 +0000
                                                                                  Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Vern Garriott <verg@entweoe.te> - 2017-07-09 19:44 +0000
                                                                                    Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-07-10 02:24 +0000
                                                                                      Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-07-11 10:44 +1000
                                                                                        Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. pnalsing@gmail.com - 2017-07-10 20:09 -0700
                                                                                          Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-07-11 19:25 +1000
                                                                                            Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Laverne Chandler <unvnh@ednawe.ee> - 2017-07-13 13:24 +0000
                                                                                          Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-07-11 14:11 +0000
                                                                                        Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-07-11 14:39 +0000
                                                                                          Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-07-12 08:16 +1000
                                                                                            Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-07-12 03:17 +0000
                                                                                              Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-07-11 23:43 -0700
                                                                                            Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-07-15 11:04 +0200
                                                                                              Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-07-16 03:45 +0000
                                                                                                Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-07-16 13:55 +0200
                                                                                                  Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-07-17 08:42 +1000
                                                                                                    Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-07-17 14:49 +0200
                                                                                                      Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-07-18 08:56 +1000
                                                                                                        Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-07-18 05:08 +0000
                                                                                                          Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-07-19 09:33 +1000
                                                                                                        Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-07-18 20:18 +0200
                                                                                                          Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-07-19 10:25 +1000
                                                                                              Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-07-17 08:40 +1000
                                                                                                Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-07-17 02:28 +0000
                                                                                                  Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-07-18 08:58 +1000
                                                                                                Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-07-17 09:53 +0200
                                                                                                  Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-07-18 09:01 +1000
                                                                                                    Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-07-18 16:25 +0200
                                                                                                      Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-07-18 15:18 +0000
                                                                                                        Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-07-18 21:14 +0200
                                                                                                      Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-07-19 09:45 +1000
                                                                                                        Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-07-19 15:05 +0200
                                                                                                          Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-07-20 08:51 +1000
                                                                                                            Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-07-20 22:22 +0200
                                                                                                              Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-07-21 14:30 +1000
                                                                                                                Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-07-21 15:04 +0200
                                                                                                                  Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-07-22 08:53 +1000
                                                                                                                    Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-07-22 14:47 +0200
                                                                                                                      Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-07-23 16:51 +1000
                                                                                                                        Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-07-23 14:46 +0200
                                                                                                                          Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-07-24 12:04 +1000
                                                                                      Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Vern Garriott <verg@entweoe.te> - 2017-07-12 17:04 +0000
                                  Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-15 08:57 -0500
                                  Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-06-15 17:56 +0200
                                    Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Lolek Atoru <oitiruc@rwuca.oa> - 2017-06-15 16:01 +0000
                                    Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-06-17 08:46 +1000
                                      Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-06-17 11:41 -0500
                                Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. Nými Icelulózy <ejienm@wzsfwe.ul> - 2017-06-15 21:59 +0000
          Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW, DSc." <HG@....> - 2017-06-11 06:14 +1000
    Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. khrapko_ri@hotmail.com - 2017-06-11 05:24 -0700
      Re: Equivalence Principle Exemplifies Einstein's Error. "HGW..." <hgw@....> - 2017-06-12 11:35 +1000

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#422337

FromThomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de>
Date2017-06-12 10:45 +0200
Message-ID<2566960.e9J7NaK4W3@PointedEars.de>
In reply to#422292
 wrote:

> On 12/06/17 06:40, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>> Experiments are _not_ set up to verify, but to *falsify* theories.
> 
> I would not agree with that.

Since you do not know what you are talking about, your opinion on that is 
irrelevant.

> I someone gets a novel idea, the first thing they want to do is test it.

Testing still is different from verification.

>> As a result, your scenario that an experimental physicist has to ask a
>> theoretical physicist for permission to test their theory never ever
>> occurs. In fact, very likely you will have the theoretical physicist to
>> be a very strong supporter of the experiment so that they can know
>> whether they are on the right track with their theory or only wasting
>> their precious time with it.
> 
> correct...but I doubt if the number of new ideas from theoreticians has
> been anywhere near the number from experimentalists.

You are missing the point.

> Maybe new concepts emerging from pure theory are the more sensational but
> no matter where they come from or how credible they are, the immediate
> goal will be to test them.

That is still _not_ verification.  We have been over this /ad nauseam/ now.

-- 
PointedEars

Twitter: @PointedEars2
Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.

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#422346

From"HGW..." <hgw@....>
Date2017-06-12 20:24 +1000
Message-ID<ohlq50$1fkc$2@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#422337
On 12/06/17 18:45, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:

>> I someone gets a novel idea, the first thing they want to do is test it.
> 
> Testing still is different from verification.
> 
>>> As a result, your scenario that an experimental physicist has to ask a
>>> theoretical physicist for permission to test their theory never ever
>>> occurs. In fact, very likely you will have the theoretical physicist to
>>> be a very strong supporter of the experiment so that they can know
>>> whether they are on the right track with their theory or only wasting
>>> their precious time with it.
>>
>> correct...but I doubt if the number of new ideas from theoreticians has
>> been anywhere near the number from experimentalists.
> 
> You are missing the point.
> 
>> Maybe new concepts emerging from pure theory are the more sensational but
>> no matter where they come from or how credible they are, the immediate
>> goal will be to test them.
> 
> That is still _not_ verification.  We have been over this /ad nauseam/ now.

You don't know what you are talking about. In physics, most ideas either 
work or they don't work....no statistics, error bars or measurements are 
  needed.



-- 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#422348

FromSelina Dieter <uiueeits@wlwtwstd.ci>
Date2017-06-12 11:01 +0000
Message-ID<ohlsa2$1gn7$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#422346
HGW... wrote:
> On 12/06/17 18:45, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>> That is still _not_ verification.  We have been over this /ad nauseam/
>> now.
> 
> You don't know what you are talking about. In physics, most ideas either
> work or they don't work....no statistics, error bars or measurements are
>   needed.

Please ignore the fool. For instance, he can't even make a car without 
lying, cheating and provoke environmental catastrophes.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#422381

From"HGW, DSc." <HG@....>
Date2017-06-13 03:58 +1000
Message-ID<ohmkle$127p$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#422348
On 12/06/17 21:01, Selina Dieter wrote:
> HGW... wrote:
>> On 12/06/17 18:45, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>>> That is still _not_ verification.  We have been over this /ad nauseam/
>>> now.
>>
>> You don't know what you are talking about. In physics, most ideas either
>> work or they don't work....no statistics, error bars or measurements are
>>   needed.
>
> Please ignore the fool. For instance, he can't even make a car without
> lying, cheating and provoke environmental catastrophes.

Idiot! You're obviously confusing technology with physics.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#422384

FromSelina Dieter <uiueeits@wlwtwstd.ci>
Date2017-06-12 18:12 +0000
Message-ID<ohmlii$10mj$3@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#422381
HGW, DSc. wrote:

> On 12/06/17 21:01, Selina Dieter wrote:
>> HGW... wrote:
>>> On 12/06/17 18:45, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>>>> That is still _not_ verification.  We have been over this /ad
>>>> nauseam/
>>>> now.
>>>
>>> You don't know what you are talking about. In physics, most ideas
>>> either work or they don't work....no statistics, error bars or
>>> measurements are
>>>   needed.
>>
>> Please ignore the fool. For instance, he can't even make a car without
>> lying, cheating and provoke environmental catastrophes.
> 
> Idiot! You're obviously confusing technology with physics.

You fool yourself. You are not going to pretend, that a one unable to put 
a car together one place, would be capable in Physics? In which case you 
would be more uneducated than he is. Take care.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#422397

From"HGW, DSc." <HG@....>
Date2017-06-13 04:50 +1000
Message-ID<ohmnm5$17pa$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#422384
On 13/06/17 04:12, Selina Dieter wrote:
> HGW, DSc. wrote:
>
>> On 12/06/17 21:01, Selina Dieter wrote:

>>>
>>> Please ignore the fool. For instance, he can't even make a car without
>>> lying, cheating and provoke environmental catastrophes.
>>
>> Idiot! You're obviously confusing technology with physics.
>
> You fool yourself. You are not going to pretend, that a one unable to put
> a car together one place, would be capable in Physics? In which case you
> would be more uneducated than he is. Take care.

Engineers have to painstakingly test and measure materials and working 
models in order to perfect their products. That is not what physicsist 
normally do.
Physicists main role is to use past knowledge to create new concepts and 
theories. Having done that and applied relevant maths to check the 
possibilities, the next step is to test their ideas with experiment.
The results will usually be complete success or absolute failure...but 
quite often it will be something in between that can be further 
investigated and remedied if possible. That may require lots of 
measurements that are carried out by technicians.


[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#422402

FromSelina Dieter <uiueeits@wlwtwstd.ci>
Date2017-06-12 18:55 +0000
Message-ID<ohmo2l$10mj$7@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#422397
HGW, DSc. wrote:

> Physicists main role is to use past knowledge to create new concepts and
> theories. Having done that and applied relevant maths to check the
> possibilities, the next step is to test their ideas with experiment. The
> results will usually be complete success or absolute failure...but quite
> often it will be something in between that can be further investigated
> and remedied if possible. That may require lots of measurements that are
> carried out by technicians.

I don't think those physicists are working that much. The most of the work 
is done by students. The students need work during projects and final 
theses.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#422410

From"HGW, DSc." <HG@....>
Date2017-06-13 05:20 +1000
Message-ID<ohmpeg$1aoq$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#422402
On 13/06/17 04:55, Selina Dieter wrote:
> HGW, DSc. wrote:
>
>> Physicists main role is to use past knowledge to create new concepts and
>> theories. Having done that and applied relevant maths to check the
>> possibilities, the next step is to test their ideas with experiment. The
>> results will usually be complete success or absolute failure...but quite
>> often it will be something in between that can be further investigated
>> and remedied if possible. That may require lots of measurements that are
>> carried out by technicians.
>
> I don't think those physicists are working that much. The most of the work
> is done by students. The students need work during projects and final
> theses.

I think Physics is in the doldrums right now largely because technology 
has been catching up with previous discoveries....Research is being 
carried out in the name of technology rather than physics.
However, the retrograde Einstein era should come to an end soon and 
physics might get off the ground again.
I predict that investigations relating to the physical nature of fields 
and other dimensions will start a whole new chapter in the history of 
physics.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#422396

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2017-06-12 13:48 -0500
Message-ID<ohmnl2$176d$2@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#422346
On 6/12/17 5:24 AM, HGW... wrote:
> You don't know what you are talking about. In physics, most ideas either 
> work or they don't work....no statistics, error bars or measurements are 
>   needed.
> 
> 

Ralph, what you want science to be about has absolutely nothing to do 
with what it really is about. You are not going to bend reality to 
conform to your fantasy of it.

-- 
Odd Bodkin -- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#422431

From"HGW..." <hgw@....>
Date2017-06-13 11:04 +1000
Message-ID<ohndmi$7ta$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#422396
On 13/06/17 04:48, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> On 6/12/17 5:24 AM, HGW... wrote:
>> You don't know what you are talking about. In physics, most ideas 
>> either work or they don't work....no statistics, error bars or 
>> measurements are   needed.
>>
>>
> 
> Ralph, what you want science to be about has absolutely nothing to do 
> with what it really is about. You are not going to bend reality to 
> conform to your fantasy of it.

Bodkin, do you know how most physicists spend their time? Many spend a 
lot of it reading the literature in the hope that will somehow encourage 
some of their own brain cells into actually producing something 
worthwhile. Others devote many hours to the building of all kinds of 
weird apparatus that might be used to test any novelty that randomly 
strays into their minds? Some drink coffee all day and talk to others 
who do the same, hoping to plagiarize some idea they accidentally divulge.
You really don't have  clue....
> 


-- 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#422457

Frommoroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)
Date2017-06-13 16:00 +0000
Message-ID<ohp266$rqm$2@pcls7.std.com>
In reply to#422431
"HGW..." <hgw@....> writes:

>On 13/06/17 04:48, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>> On 6/12/17 5:24 AM, HGW... wrote:
>>> You don't know what you are talking about. In physics, most ideas 
>>> either work or they don't work....no statistics, error bars or 
>>> measurements are   needed.
>>>
>>>
>> 
>> Ralph, what you want science to be about has absolutely nothing to do 
>> with what it really is about. You are not going to bend reality to 
>> conform to your fantasy of it.

>Bodkin, do you know how most physicists spend their time? Many spend a 
>lot of it reading the literature in the hope that will somehow encourage 
>some of their own brain cells into actually producing something 
>worthwhile. Others devote many hours to the building of all kinds of 
>weird apparatus that might be used to test any novelty that randomly 
>strays into their minds? Some drink coffee all day and talk to others 
>who do the same, hoping to plagiarize some idea they accidentally divulge.
>You really don't have  clue....

Hey Ralph, how do you know any of this? Do you even know any physicists?
Have you ever even met one?

Odd apparently reads lots of literature, while you won't even read any
of the papers Paul A. has pointed you to, since you are too afraid to
read anything that discredits DirtyBaThWater.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#422473

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2017-06-13 15:12 -0500
Message-ID<ohph03$1r63$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#422431
On 6/12/17 8:04 PM, HGW... wrote:
> On 13/06/17 04:48, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>> On 6/12/17 5:24 AM, HGW... wrote:
>>> You don't know what you are talking about. In physics, most ideas 
>>> either work or they don't work....no statistics, error bars or 
>>> measurements are   needed.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Ralph, what you want science to be about has absolutely nothing to do 
>> with what it really is about. You are not going to bend reality to 
>> conform to your fantasy of it.
> 
> Bodkin, do you know how most physicists spend their time? Many spend a 
> lot of it reading the literature in the hope that will somehow encourage 
> some of their own brain cells into actually producing something 
> worthwhile. Others devote many hours to the building of all kinds of 
> weird apparatus that might be used to test any novelty that randomly 
> strays into their minds? Some drink coffee all day and talk to others 
> who do the same, hoping to plagiarize some idea they accidentally divulge.
> You really don't have  clue....

In this fantasy world where you live, what color is the sky?


-- 
Odd Bodkin -- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#422483

FromTom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net>
Date2017-06-13 16:08 -0500
Message-ID<uqudnTK81IDVyd3EnZ2dnUU7_8zNnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#422269
On 6/11/17 6/11/17   2:57 PM, xxein1x1@gmail.com wrote:
> Let's call your two groups physicists theorists and experimentalists or the
> A team and the B team for short if we can.  I'd like to know what would
> happen [...]

This is hopelessly naive, and contrary to what actually happens. The physics 
community operates as a collection of teams, with different teams in each 
(sub)field. Each team includes both theorists and experimenters. The 
experimentalists are always seeking new ways to test theories, and the theorists 
seek experiments that inform new theories.

In my field of experimental particle physics, the prime motivations for the LHC 
and its experiments are to test the standard model and to look for phenomena 
that don't fit into its predictions and lead to new theories. So far, other than 
neutrino oscillations, no extensions to the standard model are needed to 
describe the totality of experimental data. There are, however, quite a few 
puzzles....

> Are you saying that science would jump at the chance to experiment and find
> out if it could be falsified? 

We _DO_ design and perform experiments in an attempt to falsify current 
theories, as often as possible.

For instance, the Mu2E experiment at Fermilab, of which I am a member, seeks to 
observe muon to electron conversion in the presence of an Al nucleus. We 
estimate our sensitivity will be about 10,000 times better than current limits. 
The standard model predicts the rate will be enormously smaller than our 
sensitivity, but most extensions to the standard model predict it should happen 
between the current limit and our predicted sensitivity. So we seek to either a) 
set a new upper limit, or b) observe some events. In either case that should 
inform us about which extensions to the standard model are viable, and which are 
not.

Certainly in particle physics, and I'm pretty sure also in most other fields of 
physics, that is typical of how science is pursued. Your fantasy of a "war" 
between theorists and experimenters is just plain wrong. There is a friendly 
rivalry to be sure, but both types are necessary, and know it.

Tom Roberts

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#422485

FromLolek Atoru <oitiruc@rwuca.oa>
Date2017-06-13 21:16 +0000
Message-ID<ohpknm$1v21$4@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#422483
Tom Roberts wrote:

> In my field of experimental particle physics, the prime motivations for
> the LHC and its experiments are to test the standard model and to look
> for phenomena that don't fit into its predictions and lead to new
> theories. 

I strongly believe it sticks much, much more deeper than that. It is 
something they don't want us to know. That big money are not given just as 
"to test the standard model". LOL.

> So far, other than neutrino oscillations, no extensions to the
> standard model are needed to describe the totality of experimental data.
> There are, however, quite a few puzzles....

Hmm. Se above.

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#422634

FromThomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de>
Date2017-06-15 17:57 +0200
Message-ID<2388085.mvXUDI8C0e@PointedEars.de>
In reply to#422485
Lolek Atoru wrote:

> Tom Roberts wrote:
>> In my field of experimental particle physics, the prime motivations for
>> the LHC and its experiments are to test the standard model and to look
>> for phenomena that don't fit into its predictions and lead to new
>> theories.
> 
> I strongly believe it sticks much, much more deeper than that. It is
> something they don't want us to know. That big money are not given just as
> "to test the standard model". LOL.

Nobody cares about the conspiracy theories of a clueless,
paranoid, gibbering, ’nym-shifting Tensor troll.

And no, that is _not_ a problem.

*PLONK*
 
-- 
PointedEars

Twitter: @PointedEars2
Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.

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#422638

FromLolek Atoru <oitiruc@rwuca.oa>
Date2017-06-15 16:05 +0000
Message-ID<ohub7u$185i$2@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#422634
Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:

> Lolek Atoru wrote:
> 
>> Tom Roberts wrote:
>>> In my field of experimental particle physics, the prime motivations
>>> for the LHC and its experiments are to test the standard model and to
>>> look for phenomena that don't fit into its predictions and lead to new
>>> theories.
>> 
>> I strongly believe it sticks much, much more deeper than that. It is
>> something they don't want us to know. That big money are not given just
>> as "to test the standard model". LOL.
> 
> Nobody cares about the conspiracy theories of a clueless,
> paranoid, gibbering, ’nym-shifting Tensor troll. And no, that is _not_ a
> problem. *PLONK*

Idiot, that's not a plonk. This is a
	
	*_P L O N K_*

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#422486

Frommoroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)
Date2017-06-13 21:38 +0000
Message-ID<ohpm16$el$1@pcls7.std.com>
In reply to#422483
Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> writes:

>We _DO_ design and perform experiments in an attempt to falsify current 
>theories, as often as possible.

>For instance, the Mu2E experiment at Fermilab, of which I am a member, seeks to 
>observe muon to electron conversion in the presence of an Al nucleus. We 
>estimate our sensitivity will be about 10,000 times better than current limits. 
>The standard model predicts the rate will be enormously smaller than our 
>sensitivity, but most extensions to the standard model predict it should happen 
>between the current limit and our predicted sensitivity. So we seek to either a) 
>set a new upper limit, or b) observe some events. In either case that should 
>inform us about which extensions to the standard model are viable, and which are 
>not.

Interesting. So the theory you are testing is that the half-life of a muon is
not fixed in stone but is affected by the presence of other things (Al nuclei)?
Or are you studying some sort of Al + µ- --> e- + X reaction?  Interesting.

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#422504

FromTom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net>
Date2017-06-13 19:14 -0500
Message-ID<F-KdnQOtJIxS4t3EnZ2dnUU7_83NnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#422486
On 6/13/17 6/13/17   4:38 PM, Michael Moroney wrote:
> Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> writes:
> 
>> We _DO_ design and perform experiments in an attempt to falsify current
>> theories, as often as possible.
> 
>> For instance, the Mu2E experiment at Fermilab, of which I am a member, seeks to
>> observe muon to electron conversion in the presence of an Al nucleus. We
>> estimate our sensitivity will be about 10,000 times better than current limits.
>> The standard model predicts the rate will be enormously smaller than our
>> sensitivity, but most extensions to the standard model predict it should happen
>> between the current limit and our predicted sensitivity. So we seek to either a)
>> set a new upper limit, or b) observe some events. In either case that should
>> inform us about which extensions to the standard model are viable, and which are
>> not.
> 
> Interesting. So the theory you are testing is that the half-life of a muon is
> not fixed in stone but is affected by the presence of other things (Al nuclei)?

No. We are testing lepton conservation for charged leptons -- it is already 
known to be violated for uncharged leptons (neutrino oscillations).

Normally muons decay like this, which preserves lepton number (i.e. the number 
of electrons+nu_e, and separately the number of muons+nu_mu):
	mu- => e- + anti_nu_e + nu_mu

We are looking for events like this:
	mu- + Al => e- + Al (plus perhaps other stuff we don't see)

	[This is a muonic atom, in which the mu- replaces one of the
	 electrons. The muon quickly cascades down to its ground state,
	 in which it overlaps almost completely with the Al nucleus.
	 That significantly reduces the half-life of the orbiting
	 muon, compared to a free muon.]

Without the nucleus this could not obey conservation of 4-momentum; the nucleus 
just provides mass that can absorb the required 4-momentum. Any other stuff is 
highly constrained by 4-momentum conservation, and probably cannot occur except 
for very low energy photons.

Tom Roberts

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#422511

Frommoroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)
Date2017-06-14 02:34 +0000
Message-ID<ohq7ca$a5h$1@pcls7.std.com>
In reply to#422504
Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> writes:

>On 6/13/17 6/13/17   4:38 PM, Michael Moroney wrote:
>> Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> writes:
>> 
>>> We _DO_ design and perform experiments in an attempt to falsify current
>>> theories, as often as possible.
>> 
>>> For instance, the Mu2E experiment at Fermilab, of which I am a member, seeks to
>>> observe muon to electron conversion in the presence of an Al nucleus. We
>>> estimate our sensitivity will be about 10,000 times better than current limits.
>>> The standard model predicts the rate will be enormously smaller than our
>>> sensitivity, but most extensions to the standard model predict it should happen
>>> between the current limit and our predicted sensitivity. So we seek to either a)
>>> set a new upper limit, or b) observe some events. In either case that should
>>> inform us about which extensions to the standard model are viable, and which are
>>> not.
>> 
>> Interesting. So the theory you are testing is that the half-life of a muon is
>> not fixed in stone but is affected by the presence of other things (Al nuclei)?

>No. We are testing lepton conservation for charged leptons -- it is already 
>known to be violated for uncharged leptons (neutrino oscillations).

<snip>

That is really cool. I find the idea of muonic atoms fascinating by
themselves.  Also hypernuclei, which have a lambda in the nucleus.

I have one question regarding neutrino oscillation.  I don't know offhand
what the latest estimates of neutrino masses are, but it doesn't matter
as long as they are different.  Let's say we have an electron neutrino
with a certain mass m_e flying along at nearly c.  It oscillates into a
mu neutrino with mass m_u.  Let's say m_u is 5 times m_e.  Doesn't this
violate conservation of energy, conservation of momentum or both? There
isn't any pair (m1,v1) and (m2,v2), m1 != m2, which has both the same
energy and momentum before and after. How can this be? 

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#422514

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2017-06-14 02:45 +0000
Message-ID<ohq80m$t11$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#422511
Michael Moroney <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> wrote:
> Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> writes:
> 
>> On 6/13/17 6/13/17   4:38 PM, Michael Moroney wrote:
>>> Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> writes:
>>> 
>>>> We _DO_ design and perform experiments in an attempt to falsify current
>>>> theories, as often as possible.
>>> 
>>>> For instance, the Mu2E experiment at Fermilab, of which I am a member, seeks to
>>>> observe muon to electron conversion in the presence of an Al nucleus. We
>>>> estimate our sensitivity will be about 10,000 times better than current limits.
>>>> The standard model predicts the rate will be enormously smaller than our
>>>> sensitivity, but most extensions to the standard model predict it should happen
>>>> between the current limit and our predicted sensitivity. So we seek to either a)
>>>> set a new upper limit, or b) observe some events. In either case that should
>>>> inform us about which extensions to the standard model are viable, and which are
>>>> not.
>>> 
>>> Interesting. So the theory you are testing is that the half-life of a muon is
>>> not fixed in stone but is affected by the presence of other things (Al nuclei)?
> 
>> No. We are testing lepton conservation for charged leptons -- it is already 
>> known to be violated for uncharged leptons (neutrino oscillations).
> 
> <snip>
> 
> That is really cool. I find the idea of muonic atoms fascinating by
> themselves.  Also hypernuclei, which have a lambda in the nucleus.
> 
> I have one question regarding neutrino oscillation.  I don't know offhand
> what the latest estimates of neutrino masses are, but it doesn't matter
> as long as they are different.  Let's say we have an electron neutrino
> with a certain mass m_e flying along at nearly c.  It oscillates into a
> mu neutrino with mass m_u.  Let's say m_u is 5 times m_e.  Doesn't this
> violate conservation of energy, conservation of momentum or both? There
> isn't any pair (m1,v1) and (m2,v2), m1 != m2, which has both the same
> energy and momentum before and after. How can this be? 
> 

The flavor eigenstates are mixtures of the mass eigenstates. See the
neutral kaon system. This is why the mass difference produces oscillations
without violating conservation laws. 

-- 
Odd Bodkin -- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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