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Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #408751 > unrolled thread

velocity and time

Started byRobert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com>
First post2017-02-10 11:30 -0800
Last post2017-02-12 16:31 -0800
Articles 20 on this page of 177 — 13 participants

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Contents

  velocity and time Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-10 11:30 -0800
    Cretin Robert Winn continues to spam "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2017-02-10 11:52 -0800
      Re: Cretin Robert Winn continues to spam Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-10 12:21 -0800
    Re: velocity and time Python <python@python.invalid> - 2017-02-10 21:08 +0100
      Re: velocity and time Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-10 12:34 -0800
    Re: velocity and time Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-10 14:14 -0600
      Re: velocity and time Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-10 12:36 -0800
        Re: velocity and time Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-12 15:15 -0600
          Re: velocity and time Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-12 16:37 -0800
            Re: velocity and time Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-13 07:24 -0600
              Re: velocity and time Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-13 06:45 -0800
                Re: velocity and time Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-13 09:14 -0600
                  Re: velocity and time Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-13 08:14 -0800
                    Re: velocity and time Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-15 08:39 -0600
                  Re: velocity and time Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-13 08:21 -0800
                    Re: velocity and time Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 06:43 -0600
                      Re: velocity and time Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 06:44 -0800
                        Re: velocity and time Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 11:25 -0600
                          Re: velocity and time Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 13:32 -0800
                            Re: velocity and time Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 15:42 -0600
                              Re: velocity and time Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 17:58 -0800
                                Re: velocity and time Python <python@python.invalid> - 2017-02-15 03:21 +0100
                                  Re: velocity and time Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 18:24 -0800
                                    Re: velocity and time Python <python@python.invalid> - 2017-02-15 03:36 +0100
                                    Re: velocity and time Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-15 08:43 -0600
                                      Re: velocity and time Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-15 07:19 -0800
                                        Re: velocity and time Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-17 08:07 -0600
                                          Re: velocity and time Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-17 09:05 -0800
                                            Re: velocity and time Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-17 11:20 -0600
                                              Re: velocity and time Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-17 10:51 -0800
                                            Re: velocity and time John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2017-02-17 18:16 -0800
                                Re: velocity and time Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-15 08:41 -0600
                                  Re: velocity and time Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-15 07:16 -0800
      Re: velocity and time John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2017-02-10 16:04 -0800
        Re: velocity and time "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-10 16:11 -0800
          Re: velocity and time Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-10 17:09 -0800
        Re: velocity and time John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2017-02-10 16:13 -0800
          Re: velocity and time Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-10 17:11 -0800
            Re: velocity and time "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-10 20:36 -0800
              Re: velocity and time "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-10 20:40 -0800
                Re: velocity and time Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-10 22:17 -0800
              Re: velocity and time Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-10 22:16 -0800
        Re: velocity and time Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-10 16:59 -0800
          Re: velocity and time John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2017-02-10 17:18 -0800
            Re: velocity and time Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-10 17:36 -0800
    Re: velocity and time dancouriann@gmail.com - 2017-02-10 15:32 -0800
      Re: velocity and time Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-10 16:57 -0800
        Re: velocity and time dancouriann@gmail.com - 2017-02-10 18:07 -0800
          Re: velocity and time Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-10 23:03 -0800
            Re: velocity and time stringduality@gmail.com - 2017-02-11 05:38 -0800
              Re: velocity and time Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-11 07:32 -0800
            Re: velocity and time dancouriann@gmail.com - 2017-02-11 06:30 -0800
              Re: velocity and time Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-11 07:46 -0800
                Re: velocity and time dancouriann@gmail.com - 2017-02-11 09:41 -0800
                  Re: velocity and time Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-11 10:43 -0800
                    Re: velocity and time dancouriann@gmail.com - 2017-02-11 11:51 -0800
                      Re: velocity and time Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-11 12:13 -0800
                        Re: velocity and time dancouriann@gmail.com - 2017-02-11 14:36 -0800
                          Re: velocity and time Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-11 21:31 -0800
                            Re: velocity and time dancouriann@gmail.com - 2017-02-11 21:52 -0800
                              Re: velocity and time Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-12 07:11 -0800
                                Re: velocity and time dancouriann@gmail.com - 2017-02-12 08:38 -0800
                                  Re: velocity and time Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-12 10:10 -0800
                                    Re: velocity and time dancouriann@gmail.com - 2017-02-12 10:42 -0800
                                      Re: velocity and time Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-12 16:28 -0800
                                        Re: velocity and time dancouriann@gmail.com - 2017-02-12 17:30 -0800
                                          Re: velocity and time Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-12 23:15 -0800
                                            Re: velocity and time dancouriann@gmail.com - 2017-02-13 17:12 -0800
                                              Re: velocity and time Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 06:19 -0800
                                                Re: velocity and time "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-14 07:01 -0800
                                                  Re: velocity and time Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 13:30 -0800
                                                Re: velocity and time Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 14:28 -0600
                                                  Re: velocity and time Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 18:22 -0800
                                                    Re: velocity and time Python <python@python.invalid> - 2017-02-15 03:42 +0100
                                                      Re: velocity and time Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 23:08 -0800
                                                        Re: velocity and time Python <python@python.invalid> - 2017-02-15 15:19 +0100
                                                          Re: velocity and time Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-15 07:07 -0800
                                                    Re: velocity and time Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-17 07:53 -0600
                                                      Re: velocity and time Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-17 08:47 -0800
                                                        Re: velocity and time Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-17 11:28 -0600
                                                          Re: velocity and time Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-17 11:03 -0800
                                                            Re: velocity and time Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-18 10:57 -0600
                                                              Re: velocity and time Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-18 13:19 -0800
                                                                Re: velocity and time Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-18 15:30 -0600
                                                                  Re: velocity and time Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-18 14:54 -0800
                                                                    Re: velocity and time Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-19 14:25 -0600
                                                                  Re: velocity and time Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-18 15:12 -0800
                                                                    Re: velocity and time Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-19 14:42 -0600
                                                            Re: velocity and time Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-18 11:10 -0600
                                                              Re: velocity and time Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-18 13:28 -0800
                                                                Re: velocity and time Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-18 15:32 -0600
                                                                  Re: velocity and time Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-18 15:16 -0800
                                          Re: velocity and time mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-02-12 23:20 -0800
                                        Re: velocity and time Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-13 07:25 -0600
                                          Re: velocity and time Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-13 06:47 -0800
                                            Re: velocity and time Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-13 09:20 -0600
                                              Re: velocity and time Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-13 08:05 -0800
                                                Re: velocity and time Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 06:43 -0600
                                                  Re: velocity and time Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 06:48 -0800
                                                    Re: velocity and time Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 11:26 -0600
                                                      Re: velocity and time Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 18:01 -0800
                                                        Re: velocity and time Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-15 14:59 -0600
                                                          Re: velocity and time Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-15 14:28 -0800
                                                            Re: velocity and time Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-02-15 20:19 -0800
                                                              Re: velocity and time Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-16 00:24 -0800
                                                                Re: velocity and time Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-02-16 05:53 -0800
                                                                  Re: velocity and time Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-16 06:39 -0800
                                                                    Re: velocity and time Python <python@python.invalid> - 2017-02-16 16:32 +0100
                                                                      Re: velocity and time Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-16 11:15 -0800
                                                                    Re: velocity and time Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-02-16 08:07 -0800
                                                                      Re: velocity and time Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-16 11:08 -0800
                                                                        Re: velocity and time Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-02-16 12:09 -0800
                                                                          Re: velocity and time Python <python@python.invalid> - 2017-02-16 21:18 +0100
                                                                            Re: velocity and time Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-16 15:24 -0800
                                                                          Re: velocity and time Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-16 15:22 -0800
                                                                  Re: velocity and time Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-16 06:39 -0800
                                                            Re: velocity and time Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-17 08:35 -0600
                                                              Re: velocity and time Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-17 09:55 -0800
                                                                Re: velocity and time Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-17 12:25 -0600
                                                                  Re: velocity and time Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-17 11:08 -0800
                                                                    Re: velocity and time Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-17 13:14 -0600
                                                                      Re: velocity and time Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-17 14:10 -0800
                                                                        Re: velocity and time Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-18 11:10 -0600
                                                                          Re: velocity and time Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-18 13:34 -0800
                                                                            Re: velocity and time Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-19 14:25 -0600
                                                                Re: velocity and time Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-02-18 09:55 +0100
                                                                  Re: velocity and time Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-18 06:32 -0800
                                                                    Re: velocity and time Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-02-18 16:24 +0100
                                                                      Re: velocity and time Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-18 09:02 -0800
                                                                        Re: velocity and time Python <python@python.invalid> - 2017-02-18 18:10 +0100
                                                                          Re: velocity and time Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-18 13:47 -0800
                                                                            Re: velocity and time Python <python@python.invalid> - 2017-02-19 04:44 +0100
                                                                              Re: velocity and time Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-18 22:59 -0800
                                                                                Re: velocity and time Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-02-19 04:51 -0800
                                                                                  Re: velocity and time Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-19 07:30 -0800
                                                                                    Re: velocity and time Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-02-19 10:06 -0800
                                                                                      Re: velocity and time Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-19 11:11 -0800
                                                                                Re: velocity and time Python <python@python.invalid> - 2017-02-19 15:47 +0100
                                                                                  Re: velocity and time Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-19 07:32 -0800
                                                                                    Re: velocity and time Python <python@python.invalid> - 2017-02-19 16:53 +0100
                                                                                      Re: velocity and time Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-19 11:02 -0800
                                                                        Re: velocity and time Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-02-18 18:36 +0100
                                                              Re: velocity and time Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-17 10:50 -0800
                                                                Re: velocity and time Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-17 13:17 -0600
                                                                Re: velocity and time Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-17 13:19 -0600
                                                                  Re: velocity and time Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-17 14:11 -0800
                                                                Re: velocity and time Python <python@python.invalid> - 2017-02-17 21:01 +0100
                                                                  Re: velocity and time Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-17 14:13 -0800
                                                                    Re: velocity and time Python <python@python.invalid> - 2017-02-18 00:35 +0100
                                                                      Re: velocity and time Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-17 18:55 -0800
                                                                        Re: velocity and time Python <python@python.invalid> - 2017-02-18 04:09 +0100
                                                                          Re: velocity and time Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-17 21:09 -0800
                                                                    Re: velocity and time John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2017-02-17 18:35 -0800
                                                                      Re: velocity and time Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-17 19:01 -0800
                                                                        Re: velocity and time Python <python@python.invalid> - 2017-02-18 04:13 +0100
                                                                  Re: velocity and time John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2017-02-17 18:37 -0800
                                                                    Re: velocity and time Python <python@python.invalid> - 2017-02-18 04:03 +0100
                                                                    Re: velocity and time Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-17 19:08 -0800
                                                                Re: velocity and time Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-19 14:25 -0600
                            Re: velocity and time Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-12 15:47 -0600
                        Re: velocity and time Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-12 15:46 -0600
    Re: velocity and time Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-11 07:46 -0800
      Re: velocity and time Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-11 07:55 -0800
        Re: velocity and time Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-11 09:01 -0800
          Re: velocity and time Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-11 09:08 -0800
          Re: velocity and time Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-11 10:31 -0800
            Re: velocity and time Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-11 12:15 -0800
              Re: velocity and time Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-11 20:54 -0800
                Re: velocity and time Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-12 08:51 -0800
                  Re: velocity and time Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-12 10:12 -0800
                    Re: velocity and time Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-12 12:06 -0800
                      Re: velocity and time Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-12 16:35 -0800
    Re: velocity and time numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2017-02-11 15:04 -0800
      Re: velocity and time Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-11 21:46 -0800
    Re: velocity and time numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2017-02-11 15:05 -0800
    Re: velocity and time numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2017-02-12 11:31 -0800
      Re: velocity and time Robert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com> - 2017-02-12 16:31 -0800

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#409696

FromRobert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com>
Date2017-02-17 11:03 -0800
Message-ID<ac4dad91-c26d-4c42-b0e4-fbeb0b6b0837@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#409680
On Friday, February 17, 2017 at 10:28:27 AM UTC-7, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> On 2/17/2017 10:47 AM, Robert Winn wrote:
> > I would suspect that a lot more saddles are being made today than were being made in the 1800's.
> > There are a lot more horses being used for riding today.  Back then there were isolated ranches
> > where there were horses.  Today there are 3.5 acre mini-farms with 5 or six horses each.
> 
> Here's a picture of New York City in 1900, Robert.
> https://simplymarvelous.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/easter-morning-1900-new-york-city_s-fifth-avenue1.jpg
> 
> I think that what you suspect is generally wrong.

Well, I don't think so.  There were a lot more horses in the west than in New York City, and there are a lot more today.

> > Back in 2007 I was welding on some semi-trailers for Ammon Bundy at a place called Reload, Inc.,
> > in Phoenix, Arizona, where they unload train cars.  Ammon and I looked at all of the lumber at that
> > place.  There was no lumber there from the United States.  It was all from Canada.  So explain to
> > me why all of the lumber being shipped into Phoenix, Arizona, is from Canada.
> > At one time there were sawmills right here in Arizona.  That was before most of the trees in Arizona
> > burned up in forest fires.
> 
> Did you know, Robert, that there are more lumber industry workers today 
> than there are physicists? Quite a bit more in fact.

Well, I doubt that very much.  The last time I checked there were only 175 sawmills in the entire United States.  A typical sawmill does not have very many employees.  
> 
> > You tell me scientists are wonderful, competent people.  I do not see evidence of it.
> 
> I try not to generalize a group of people that share a common 
> characteristic. This is called bigotry in this country.

Bigotry, you say?  So if an individual person says something unfavorable about a group, that is bad, but if a group says something unfavorable about an individual, it is good.  I think you should have been a psychiatrist.  
You should be charging money for these decisions.

> > I try to talk them, and all I get back for twenty years is profanity and insults.
> 
> And you don't suppose that the negative reaction you get from a lot of 
> different kinds of people has anything to do with you?
>
No, it has nothing to do with me.  They talk the same way to each other. 
 
> > So I just tend to dismiss them today.  There is nothing there, nobody home.
> > Now maybe that will change.  Maybe students now in school will become serious about science
> > and want it to be more than the propaganda of today.  But what we have now is propaganda,
> > and we have to be honest about it.  Scientists have an agenda.
> > They are the enemies of working people like me.
> 
> If you want to declare them your enemy, then I suppose that's your 
> prerogative. Sounds kind of hateful to me.
>
Yes, I know.  You feel that you have to be the protector and defender of scientists because I am such a hateful person.   

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#409804

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2017-02-18 10:57 -0600
Message-ID<o89ud4$hiv$3@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#409696
On 2/17/2017 1:03 PM, Robert Winn wrote:
>> Did you know, Robert, that there are more lumber industry workers today
>> than there are physicists? Quite a bit more in fact.
> Well, I doubt that very much.  The last time I checked there were only 175 sawmills
> in the entire United States.  A typical sawmill does not have very many employees.

I believe that the lumber industry includes more people than are 
actually working in the sawmills. After all, the sawmills are not on 
trucks, carried around to where the trees are. If you think really hard, 
you may remember that about the work.

There were 17,410 physicists and astronomers in the US in May 2015.
There were 38,700 logging workers in the US in May 2015.
This included 5840 fallers, 27,290 logging equipment operators, 2740 log 
graders and scalers, and 2830 "logging workers, all other".
You can look it up if you like. U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics.

Seems to me that the logging industry is in better shape than the 
physics industry, at least according to those stats.

-- 
Odd Bodkin -- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#409862

FromRobert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com>
Date2017-02-18 13:19 -0800
Message-ID<2d15dca4-8151-492a-9a09-0877357b6c7b@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#409804
On Saturday, February 18, 2017 at 9:57:12 AM UTC-7, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> On 2/17/2017 1:03 PM, Robert Winn wrote:
> >> Did you know, Robert, that there are more lumber industry workers today
> >> than there are physicists? Quite a bit more in fact.
> > Well, I doubt that very much.  The last time I checked there were only 175 sawmills
> > in the entire United States.  A typical sawmill does not have very many employees.
> 
> I believe that the lumber industry includes more people than are 
> actually working in the sawmills. After all, the sawmills are not on 
> trucks, carried around to where the trees are. If you think really hard, 
> you may remember that about the work.
> 
> There were 17,410 physicists and astronomers in the US in May 2015.
> There were 38,700 logging workers in the US in May 2015.
> This included 5840 fallers, 27,290 logging equipment operators, 2740 log 
> graders and scalers, and 2830 "logging workers, all other".
> You can look it up if you like. U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics.
> 
> Seems to me that the logging industry is in better shape than the 
> physics industry, at least according to those stats.
> 
> -- 
> Odd Bodkin -- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

Well, the logging industry is in pitiful shape, as anyone who was ever in it knows.  What you neglect in your assessment is all of the people in various industries who use physics in their work who are not called physicists.  
The County I came from in Montana employed almost everyone in logging or sawmill work.  We would also include the people employed by the Forest Service in this number.  Today there are no sawmills there.  If any trees are being cut, they are from private land, and there is very little private land in Lincoln County, Montana.  Almost all of the land is Forest Service land.  Lincoln County is about one and a half times the size of the state of Delaware and has about 19,000 people.  Delaware has about a million people.  The main two industries in Lincoln County now are mesothelioma lawsuits and collecting social security benefits.  There used to be an asbestos mine at Libby, Montana.
So now tell me something.  I went to Montana State University for a year.  There were a lot of people at that University enrolled in the physics curriculum when I was there, plus all of the people taking engineering, etc., who had to take a lot of physics classes.  What do all of those people do after they graduate if there are only 17,000 jobs for them in the United States?

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#409865

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2017-02-18 15:30 -0600
Message-ID<o8aee5$1dkk$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#409862
On 2/18/2017 3:19 PM, Robert Winn wrote:
> On Saturday, February 18, 2017 at 9:57:12 AM UTC-7, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>> On 2/17/2017 1:03 PM, Robert Winn wrote:
>>>> Did you know, Robert, that there are more lumber industry workers today
>>>> than there are physicists? Quite a bit more in fact.
>>> Well, I doubt that very much.  The last time I checked there were only 175 sawmills
>>> in the entire United States.  A typical sawmill does not have very many employees.
>>
>> I believe that the lumber industry includes more people than are
>> actually working in the sawmills. After all, the sawmills are not on
>> trucks, carried around to where the trees are. If you think really hard,
>> you may remember that about the work.
>>
>> There were 17,410 physicists and astronomers in the US in May 2015.
>> There were 38,700 logging workers in the US in May 2015.
>> This included 5840 fallers, 27,290 logging equipment operators, 2740 log
>> graders and scalers, and 2830 "logging workers, all other".
>> You can look it up if you like. U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics.
>>
>> Seems to me that the logging industry is in better shape than the
>> physics industry, at least according to those stats.
>>
>> --
>> Odd Bodkin -- maker of fine toys, tools, tables
>
> Well, the logging industry is in pitiful shape, as anyone who was ever in it knows.
> What you neglect in your assessment is all of the people in various industries who
> use physics in their work who are not called physicists.

Then they are not physicists. Likewise, accountants and grocery store 
clerks who use mathematics are not mathematicians. Taxi drivers and park 
rangers who use maps are not geographers. And people like me who use 
wood are not loggers or sawmill employees.

> The County I came from in Montana employed almost everyone in logging or sawmill work.
> We would also include the people employed by the Forest Service in this number.
> Today there are no sawmills there.  If any trees are being cut, they are from private
> land, and there is very little private land in Lincoln County, Montana.  Almost
> all of the land is Forest Service land.  Lincoln County is about one and a half
> times the size of the state of Delaware and has about 19,000 people.  Delaware has
> about a million people.  The main two industries in Lincoln County now are mesothelioma
> lawsuits and collecting social security benefits.  There used to be an asbestos mine at Libby, Montana.

Yes, I'm aware of that. The largest employment in Lincoln County is the 
EPA, because the whole county pretty much is an EPA Superfund cleanup 
site, because the owners of the mine contaminated everything from soccer 
practice fields to rainwater retention ponds.

> So now tell me something.  I went to Montana State University for a year.  There were a
> lot of people at that University enrolled in the physics curriculum when I was there, plus all
> of the people taking engineering, etc., who had to take a lot of physics classes.  What do all of
> those people do after they graduate if there are only 17,000 jobs for them in the United States?
>

This may come as a surprise to you because you only went for a year. But 
most schools require you to take a broad spectrum of classes whether you 
intend to work in that area or not. All students planning to go into 
medicine, for example, are required to take physics as an undergraduate. 
The same is true for geologists, chemists, engineers, biologists, 
pharmacists, and a whole host of other groups.

There may be several hundred students taking physics classes at a 
typical university, and only a dozen or so of them are physics majors. 
Of the undergraduate physics majors, only a small fraction of those will 
continue on with graduate studies to make physics a career.

As an example, did you take an English course at Montana State? Are you 
now an English teacher?


-- 
Odd Bodkin -- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#409876

FromRobert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com>
Date2017-02-18 14:54 -0800
Message-ID<1c95cf1d-c17e-4228-ac97-022b54702baa@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#409865
On Saturday, February 18, 2017 at 2:30:49 PM UTC-7, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> On 2/18/2017 3:19 PM, Robert Winn wrote:
> > On Saturday, February 18, 2017 at 9:57:12 AM UTC-7, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> >> On 2/17/2017 1:03 PM, Robert Winn wrote:
> >>>> Did you know, Robert, that there are more lumber industry workers today
> >>>> than there are physicists? Quite a bit more in fact.
> >>> Well, I doubt that very much.  The last time I checked there were only 175 sawmills
> >>> in the entire United States.  A typical sawmill does not have very many employees.
> >>
> >> I believe that the lumber industry includes more people than are
> >> actually working in the sawmills. After all, the sawmills are not on
> >> trucks, carried around to where the trees are. If you think really hard,
> >> you may remember that about the work.
> >>
> >> There were 17,410 physicists and astronomers in the US in May 2015.
> >> There were 38,700 logging workers in the US in May 2015.
> >> This included 5840 fallers, 27,290 logging equipment operators, 2740 log
> >> graders and scalers, and 2830 "logging workers, all other".
> >> You can look it up if you like. U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics.
> >>
> >> Seems to me that the logging industry is in better shape than the
> >> physics industry, at least according to those stats.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Odd Bodkin -- maker of fine toys, tools, tables
> >
> > Well, the logging industry is in pitiful shape, as anyone who was ever in it knows.
> > What you neglect in your assessment is all of the people in various industries who
> > use physics in their work who are not called physicists.
> 
> Then they are not physicists. Likewise, accountants and grocery store 
> clerks who use mathematics are not mathematicians. Taxi drivers and park 
> rangers who use maps are not geographers. And people like me who use 
> wood are not loggers or sawmill employees.
> 
> > The County I came from in Montana employed almost everyone in logging or sawmill work.
> > We would also include the people employed by the Forest Service in this number.
> > Today there are no sawmills there.  If any trees are being cut, they are from private
> > land, and there is very little private land in Lincoln County, Montana.  Almost
> > all of the land is Forest Service land.  Lincoln County is about one and a half
> > times the size of the state of Delaware and has about 19,000 people.  Delaware has
> > about a million people.  The main two industries in Lincoln County now are mesothelioma
> > lawsuits and collecting social security benefits.  There used to be an asbestos mine at Libby, Montana.
> 
> Yes, I'm aware of that. The largest employment in Lincoln County is the 
> EPA, because the whole county pretty much is an EPA Superfund cleanup 
> site, because the owners of the mine contaminated everything from soccer 
> practice fields to rainwater retention ponds.
> 
> > So now tell me something.  I went to Montana State University for a year.  There were a
> > lot of people at that University enrolled in the physics curriculum when I was there, plus all
> > of the people taking engineering, etc., who had to take a lot of physics classes.  What do all of
> > those people do after they graduate if there are only 17,000 jobs for them in the United States?
> >
> 
> This may come as a surprise to you because you only went for a year. But 
> most schools require you to take a broad spectrum of classes whether you 
> intend to work in that area or not. All students planning to go into 
> medicine, for example, are required to take physics as an undergraduate. 
> The same is true for geologists, chemists, engineers, biologists, 
> pharmacists, and a whole host of other groups.
> 
> There may be several hundred students taking physics classes at a 
> typical university, and only a dozen or so of them are physics majors. 
> Of the undergraduate physics majors, only a small fraction of those will 
> continue on with graduate studies to make physics a career.
> 
> As an example, did you take an English course at Montana State? Are you 
> now an English teacher?
> 
Well, yes, I am.  I have been for the last twenty years.  It was entirely unintentional on my part, but then I started posting in sci.physics.relativity, and scientists started answering my posts.  You can determine for yourself how successful these people were at using the English language.  Then I started posting responses that did not contain profanity, insults, or the other devices that scientists use when trying to communicate.  So I think you could say that I was teaching English by example for the last twenty years. 

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#409996

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2017-02-19 14:25 -0600
Message-ID<o8cv06$1dci$2@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#409876
On 2/18/2017 4:54 PM, Robert Winn wrote:
> On Saturday, February 18, 2017 at 2:30:49 PM UTC-7, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>> On 2/18/2017 3:19 PM, Robert Winn wrote:
>>> On Saturday, February 18, 2017 at 9:57:12 AM UTC-7, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>>>> On 2/17/2017 1:03 PM, Robert Winn wrote:
>>>>>> Did you know, Robert, that there are more lumber industry workers today
>>>>>> than there are physicists? Quite a bit more in fact.
>>>>> Well, I doubt that very much.  The last time I checked there were only 175 sawmills
>>>>> in the entire United States.  A typical sawmill does not have very many employees.
>>>>
>>>> I believe that the lumber industry includes more people than are
>>>> actually working in the sawmills. After all, the sawmills are not on
>>>> trucks, carried around to where the trees are. If you think really hard,
>>>> you may remember that about the work.
>>>>
>>>> There were 17,410 physicists and astronomers in the US in May 2015.
>>>> There were 38,700 logging workers in the US in May 2015.
>>>> This included 5840 fallers, 27,290 logging equipment operators, 2740 log
>>>> graders and scalers, and 2830 "logging workers, all other".
>>>> You can look it up if you like. U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics.
>>>>
>>>> Seems to me that the logging industry is in better shape than the
>>>> physics industry, at least according to those stats.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Odd Bodkin -- maker of fine toys, tools, tables
>>>
>>> Well, the logging industry is in pitiful shape, as anyone who was ever in it knows.
>>> What you neglect in your assessment is all of the people in various industries who
>>> use physics in their work who are not called physicists.
>>
>> Then they are not physicists. Likewise, accountants and grocery store
>> clerks who use mathematics are not mathematicians. Taxi drivers and park
>> rangers who use maps are not geographers. And people like me who use
>> wood are not loggers or sawmill employees.
>>
>>> The County I came from in Montana employed almost everyone in logging or sawmill work.
>>> We would also include the people employed by the Forest Service in this number.
>>> Today there are no sawmills there.  If any trees are being cut, they are from private
>>> land, and there is very little private land in Lincoln County, Montana.  Almost
>>> all of the land is Forest Service land.  Lincoln County is about one and a half
>>> times the size of the state of Delaware and has about 19,000 people.  Delaware has
>>> about a million people.  The main two industries in Lincoln County now are mesothelioma
>>> lawsuits and collecting social security benefits.  There used to be an asbestos mine at Libby, Montana.
>>
>> Yes, I'm aware of that. The largest employment in Lincoln County is the
>> EPA, because the whole county pretty much is an EPA Superfund cleanup
>> site, because the owners of the mine contaminated everything from soccer
>> practice fields to rainwater retention ponds.
>>
>>> So now tell me something.  I went to Montana State University for a year.  There were a
>>> lot of people at that University enrolled in the physics curriculum when I was there, plus all
>>> of the people taking engineering, etc., who had to take a lot of physics classes.  What do all of
>>> those people do after they graduate if there are only 17,000 jobs for them in the United States?
>>>
>>
>> This may come as a surprise to you because you only went for a year. But
>> most schools require you to take a broad spectrum of classes whether you
>> intend to work in that area or not. All students planning to go into
>> medicine, for example, are required to take physics as an undergraduate.
>> The same is true for geologists, chemists, engineers, biologists,
>> pharmacists, and a whole host of other groups.
>>
>> There may be several hundred students taking physics classes at a
>> typical university, and only a dozen or so of them are physics majors.
>> Of the undergraduate physics majors, only a small fraction of those will
>> continue on with graduate studies to make physics a career.
>>
>> As an example, did you take an English course at Montana State? Are you
>> now an English teacher?
>>
> Well, yes, I am.  I have been for the last twenty years.  It was entirely unintentional on my part,
> but then I started posting in sci.physics.relativity, and scientists started answering my posts.
> You can determine for yourself how successful these people were at using the English language.
> Then I started posting responses that did not contain profanity, insults, or the other devices
> that scientists use when trying to communicate.  So I think you could say that I was teaching English
> by example for the last twenty years.
>

Doing something that you think you're good at does not make you a 
professional in that category. There are lots of hobbyist woodworkers 
with garage shops, in which they make a table or a storage box. This 
does not make them a professional woodworker.

You also cook meals, but this does not make you a chef by profession. 
You may also tend a yard, but this does not make you a landscaper by 
profession. Likewise, someone who clears trees from his property is not 
a lumber worker.

You asked about the number of people who take physics classes compared 
to those who are physicists by profession. I've answered you.


-- 
Odd Bodkin -- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#409881

FromRobert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com>
Date2017-02-18 15:12 -0800
Message-ID<94672bd0-af63-47b2-a4d9-4b89bb6f2eab@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#409865
On Saturday, February 18, 2017 at 2:30:49 PM UTC-7, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> On 2/18/2017 3:19 PM, Robert Winn wrote:
> > On Saturday, February 18, 2017 at 9:57:12 AM UTC-7, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> >> On 2/17/2017 1:03 PM, Robert Winn wrote:
> >>>> Did you know, Robert, that there are more lumber industry workers today
> >>>> than there are physicists? Quite a bit more in fact.
> >>> Well, I doubt that very much.  The last time I checked there were only 175 sawmills
> >>> in the entire United States.  A typical sawmill does not have very many employees.
> >>
> >> I believe that the lumber industry includes more people than are
> >> actually working in the sawmills. After all, the sawmills are not on
> >> trucks, carried around to where the trees are. If you think really hard,
> >> you may remember that about the work.
> >>
> >> There were 17,410 physicists and astronomers in the US in May 2015.
> >> There were 38,700 logging workers in the US in May 2015.
> >> This included 5840 fallers, 27,290 logging equipment operators, 2740 log
> >> graders and scalers, and 2830 "logging workers, all other".
> >> You can look it up if you like. U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics.
> >>
> >> Seems to me that the logging industry is in better shape than the
> >> physics industry, at least according to those stats.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Odd Bodkin -- maker of fine toys, tools, tables
> >
> > Well, the logging industry is in pitiful shape, as anyone who was ever in it knows.
> > What you neglect in your assessment is all of the people in various industries who
> > use physics in their work who are not called physicists.
> 
> Then they are not physicists. Likewise, accountants and grocery store 
> clerks who use mathematics are not mathematicians. Taxi drivers and park 
> rangers who use maps are not geographers. And people like me who use 
> wood are not loggers or sawmill employees.
> 
> > The County I came from in Montana employed almost everyone in logging or sawmill work.
> > We would also include the people employed by the Forest Service in this number.
> > Today there are no sawmills there.  If any trees are being cut, they are from private
> > land, and there is very little private land in Lincoln County, Montana.  Almost
> > all of the land is Forest Service land.  Lincoln County is about one and a half
> > times the size of the state of Delaware and has about 19,000 people.  Delaware has
> > about a million people.  The main two industries in Lincoln County now are mesothelioma
> > lawsuits and collecting social security benefits.  There used to be an asbestos mine at Libby, Montana.
> 
> Yes, I'm aware of that. The largest employment in Lincoln County is the 
> EPA, because the whole county pretty much is an EPA Superfund cleanup 
> site, because the owners of the mine contaminated everything from soccer 
> practice fields to rainwater retention ponds.
> 
My sister has a lot of fun talking to the scientific people involved in EPA Superfund cleanup.  She was watching a group of college students in Libby one time who were saving our lives from asbestos contamination.  So then after a while she asked them, Where are your masks?
Masks?
Yes, aren't you supposed to be wearing masks so that you don't get mesothelioma?
She know some things like this because she was a heart surgery nurse for thirty years.  
Then her father-in law died at the age of 101 in Libby.  When she got his death certificate it said he died of mesothelioma.  So she went and interrogated the doctors involved in making out the death certificate.  It turned out that the more people who die of mesothelioma in Lincoln County, the more money they can get from the federal government.  But when it was all over, she and my brother-in-law and his brother made them change the death certificate, and then she contacted the horrible mining company who is getting sued for all of this and asked them, would you like some free information about this death?  It turned out they did want the information.

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#410000

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2017-02-19 14:42 -0600
Message-ID<o8d000$1ffl$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#409881
On 2/18/2017 5:12 PM, Robert Winn wrote:
> My sister has a lot of fun talking to the scientific people involved in EPA Superfund cleanup.
> She was watching a group of college students in Libby one time who were saving our lives from
> asbestos contamination.  So then after a while she asked them, Where are your masks?
> Masks?
> Yes, aren't you supposed to be wearing masks so that you don't get mesothelioma?
> She know some things like this because she was a heart surgery nurse for thirty years.
> Then her father-in law died at the age of 101 in Libby.  When she got his death certificate it
> said he died of mesothelioma.  So she went and interrogated the doctors involved in making out
> the death certificate.  It turned out that the more people who die of mesothelioma in Lincoln
> County, the more money they can get from the federal government.  But when it was all over,
> she and my brother-in-law and his brother made them change the death certificate, and then she
> contacted the horrible mining company who is getting sued for all of this and asked them, would
> you like some free information about this death?  It turned out they did want the information.

I have no doubt that there were some odd behaviors in the fallout of the 
Superfund cleanup. In general things were handled very badly in your 
hometown. First, Grace managed to kill ten percent of the population of 
Libby and surrounding areas by loading the whole town with asbestos, 
including the sawmill. On top of that, St. Regis had been running the 
tree-cutting business in a sustainable way, with limited cuts done more 
frequently, until Champion bought them out and started clear-cutting 
old-growth forests. Well, that can't be sustained forever and when the 
environmental groups started telling the Forestry Service that Champion 
was on the path of pillaging the resources, the Forestry service slowed 
down the cutting. But now Champion was committed to the higher cut rate 
and they could not sustain the operation and they sold out to Plum Creek 
who sold out to Stimson who just shut stuff down because people were 
moving out of an EPA disaster area as it was.

As far as I know, no use of relativity was involved in any of this.

I have no idea why you chose to go to Arizona to pick oranges, instead 
of just moving to a different county in Montana where there is still 
viable logging today.

-- 
Odd Bodkin -- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#409814

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2017-02-18 11:10 -0600
Message-ID<o89v5q$hiv$11@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#409696
On 2/17/2017 1:03 PM, Robert Winn wrote:
> On Friday, February 17, 2017 at 10:28:27 AM UTC-7, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>> On 2/17/2017 10:47 AM, Robert Winn wrote:
>>> I would suspect that a lot more saddles are being made today than were being made in the 1800's.
>>> There are a lot more horses being used for riding today.  Back then there were isolated ranches
>>> where there were horses.  Today there are 3.5 acre mini-farms with 5 or six horses each.
>> Here's a picture of New York City in 1900, Robert.
>> https://simplymarvelous.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/easter-morning-1900-new-york-city_s-fifth-avenue1.jpg
>>
>> I think that what you suspect is generally wrong.
> Well, I don't think so.  There were a lot more horses in the west than in New York City, and there are a lot more today.
>

Well, Robert, according to the USDA there were 20 million horses in the 
US in 1915, most of them domesticated. At the onset of WWI, when 
motorized transportation began to take over, the number started to fall. 
In 1959, the number of horses had fallen to 4.5 million in the US, and 
since that time it has rebounded to about 9 million horses, due to 
increased interest in recreational uses.

So you were saying that you believe a lot more saddles are being made 
today than were being made at the end of the 19th century, because there 
are a lot more horses now than then.

So this just goes to show you that your own personal hunches about 
things, based on the limited view of the world that you've been able to 
enjoy, is not particularly reliable. For some people, this matters, 
though it clearly does not matter to you.

-- 
Odd Bodkin -- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#409863

FromRobert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com>
Date2017-02-18 13:28 -0800
Message-ID<86336446-742a-4522-9941-47edfb6da3be@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#409814
On Saturday, February 18, 2017 at 10:10:22 AM UTC-7, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> On 2/17/2017 1:03 PM, Robert Winn wrote:
> > On Friday, February 17, 2017 at 10:28:27 AM UTC-7, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> >> On 2/17/2017 10:47 AM, Robert Winn wrote:
> >>> I would suspect that a lot more saddles are being made today than were being made in the 1800's.
> >>> There are a lot more horses being used for riding today.  Back then there were isolated ranches
> >>> where there were horses.  Today there are 3.5 acre mini-farms with 5 or six horses each.
> >> Here's a picture of New York City in 1900, Robert.
> >> https://simplymarvelous.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/easter-morning-1900-new-york-city_s-fifth-avenue1.jpg
> >>
> >> I think that what you suspect is generally wrong.
> > Well, I don't think so.  There were a lot more horses in the west than in New York City, and there are a lot more today.
> >
> 
> Well, Robert, according to the USDA there were 20 million horses in the 
> US in 1915, most of them domesticated. At the onset of WWI, when 
> motorized transportation began to take over, the number started to fall. 
> In 1959, the number of horses had fallen to 4.5 million in the US, and 
> since that time it has rebounded to about 9 million horses, due to 
> increased interest in recreational uses.
> 
> So you were saying that you believe a lot more saddles are being made 
> today than were being made at the end of the 19th century, because there 
> are a lot more horses now than then.
> 
> So this just goes to show you that your own personal hunches about 
> things, based on the limited view of the world that you've been able to 
> enjoy, is not particularly reliable. For some people, this matters, 
> though it clearly does not matter to you.
> 
> -- 
> Odd Bodkin -- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

Most of the horses in the West were not domesticated as you infer.  There were large herds of wild horses back then.  Also, not all horses were riding horses.  There were almost as many work horses as riding horses back then.  They did not have many tractors until the 1920's.  Today they probably make more saddles than they did back then because almost all horses are riding horses today.

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#409866

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2017-02-18 15:32 -0600
Message-ID<o8aeh9$1dkk$2@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#409863
On 2/18/2017 3:28 PM, Robert Winn wrote:
> On Saturday, February 18, 2017 at 10:10:22 AM UTC-7, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>> On 2/17/2017 1:03 PM, Robert Winn wrote:
>>> On Friday, February 17, 2017 at 10:28:27 AM UTC-7, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>>>> On 2/17/2017 10:47 AM, Robert Winn wrote:
>>>>> I would suspect that a lot more saddles are being made today than were being made in the 1800's.
>>>>> There are a lot more horses being used for riding today.  Back then there were isolated ranches
>>>>> where there were horses.  Today there are 3.5 acre mini-farms with 5 or six horses each.
>>>> Here's a picture of New York City in 1900, Robert.
>>>> https://simplymarvelous.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/easter-morning-1900-new-york-city_s-fifth-avenue1.jpg
>>>>
>>>> I think that what you suspect is generally wrong.
>>> Well, I don't think so.  There were a lot more horses in the west than in New York City, and there are a lot more today.
>>>
>>
>> Well, Robert, according to the USDA there were 20 million horses in the
>> US in 1915, most of them domesticated. At the onset of WWI, when
>> motorized transportation began to take over, the number started to fall.
>> In 1959, the number of horses had fallen to 4.5 million in the US, and
>> since that time it has rebounded to about 9 million horses, due to
>> increased interest in recreational uses.
>>
>> So you were saying that you believe a lot more saddles are being made
>> today than were being made at the end of the 19th century, because there
>> are a lot more horses now than then.
>>
>> So this just goes to show you that your own personal hunches about
>> things, based on the limited view of the world that you've been able to
>> enjoy, is not particularly reliable. For some people, this matters,
>> though it clearly does not matter to you.
>>
>> --
>> Odd Bodkin -- maker of fine toys, tools, tables
>
> Most of the horses in the West were not domesticated as you infer.

I checked that. There were an estimated 35,000 wild horses back then.

> There were large herds of
> wild horses back then.  Also, not all horses were riding horses.  There were almost as many
> work horses as riding horses back then.  They did not have many tractors until the 1920's.
> Today they probably make more saddles than they did back then because almost all horses are
> riding horses today.
>

I'll repeat the statement that you tend to make things up based on what 
seems to make sense to you, whether or not that is in alignment with facts.


-- 
Odd Bodkin -- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#409882

FromRobert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com>
Date2017-02-18 15:16 -0800
Message-ID<b1bc0890-e56c-41d1-8873-f381b35d7d9d@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#409866
On Saturday, February 18, 2017 at 2:32:29 PM UTC-7, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> On 2/18/2017 3:28 PM, Robert Winn wrote:
> > On Saturday, February 18, 2017 at 10:10:22 AM UTC-7, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> >> On 2/17/2017 1:03 PM, Robert Winn wrote:
> >>> On Friday, February 17, 2017 at 10:28:27 AM UTC-7, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> >>>> On 2/17/2017 10:47 AM, Robert Winn wrote:
> >>>>> I would suspect that a lot more saddles are being made today than were being made in the 1800's.
> >>>>> There are a lot more horses being used for riding today.  Back then there were isolated ranches
> >>>>> where there were horses.  Today there are 3.5 acre mini-farms with 5 or six horses each.
> >>>> Here's a picture of New York City in 1900, Robert.
> >>>> https://simplymarvelous.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/easter-morning-1900-new-york-city_s-fifth-avenue1.jpg
> >>>>
> >>>> I think that what you suspect is generally wrong.
> >>> Well, I don't think so.  There were a lot more horses in the west than in New York City, and there are a lot more today.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Well, Robert, according to the USDA there were 20 million horses in the
> >> US in 1915, most of them domesticated. At the onset of WWI, when
> >> motorized transportation began to take over, the number started to fall.
> >> In 1959, the number of horses had fallen to 4.5 million in the US, and
> >> since that time it has rebounded to about 9 million horses, due to
> >> increased interest in recreational uses.
> >>
> >> So you were saying that you believe a lot more saddles are being made
> >> today than were being made at the end of the 19th century, because there
> >> are a lot more horses now than then.
> >>
> >> So this just goes to show you that your own personal hunches about
> >> things, based on the limited view of the world that you've been able to
> >> enjoy, is not particularly reliable. For some people, this matters,
> >> though it clearly does not matter to you.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Odd Bodkin -- maker of fine toys, tools, tables
> >
> > Most of the horses in the West were not domesticated as you infer.
> 
> I checked that. There were an estimated 35,000 wild horses back then.
> 
> > There were large herds of
> > wild horses back then.  Also, not all horses were riding horses.  There were almost as many
> > work horses as riding horses back then.  They did not have many tractors until the 1920's.
> > Today they probably make more saddles than they did back then because almost all horses are
> > riding horses today.
> >
> 
> I'll repeat the statement that you tend to make things up based on what 
> seems to make sense to you, whether or not that is in alignment with facts.
> 
I tend to make things up?  You were the one claiming that all people who made saddles were now out of business.  

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#408996

Frommlwozniak@wp.pl
Date2017-02-12 23:20 -0800
Message-ID<9147deed-825c-4f62-b847-d9697ef94755@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#408990
W dniu poniedziałek, 13 lutego 2017 02:30:05 UTC+1 użytkownik danco...@gmail.com napisał:
> On Sunday, February 12, 2017 at 4:28:50 PM UTC-8, Robert Winn wrote:
> > On Sunday, February 12, 2017 at 11:42:06 AM UTC-7, danco...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > You predict a factor of (1 - v/c) and relativity 
> > > predicts a factor of sqrt(1 - (v/c)^2), and all the 
> > > experimental results confirm the relativistic factor.
> > >  What part of this don't you understand?
> > 
> > Well, the part I don't understand is how you think there 
> > is some great difference between your factor and the factor
> > I get ... at any velocities that can be observed directly.  
> 
> Cesium clocks have been flown in airplanes and the relativistic time dilation factor has been confirmed repeatedly. 


When cared properly, clocks repeatedly indicate no time 
dilation.
You can check it here.
http://www.leapsecond.com/java/gpsclock.htm

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#409022

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2017-02-13 07:25 -0600
Message-ID<o7sc48$5l1$3@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#408983
On 2/12/2017 6:28 PM, Robert Winn wrote:
> The fastest thing I know about that can be observed directly is the planet Mercury, which is going about 30 miles per second.

Oh dear, Robert. Really? You don't know of anything that goes faster 
than Mercury that's been observed?

-- 
Odd Bodkin -- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#409033

FromRobert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com>
Date2017-02-13 06:47 -0800
Message-ID<9c7aa20d-4784-4c3c-8288-76d28a28d0f1@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#409022
On Monday, February 13, 2017 at 6:25:31 AM UTC-7, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> On 2/12/2017 6:28 PM, Robert Winn wrote:
> > The fastest thing I know about that can be observed directly is the planet Mercury, which is going about 30 miles per second.
> 
> Oh dear, Robert. Really? You don't know of anything that goes faster 
> than Mercury that's been observed?
> 
> -- 
> Odd Bodkin -- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

Well, OK, name something that has been observed going faster than 30 miles per second.  

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#409041

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2017-02-13 09:20 -0600
Message-ID<o7sira$jkk$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#409033
On 2/13/2017 8:47 AM, Robert Winn wrote:
> On Monday, February 13, 2017 at 6:25:31 AM UTC-7, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>> On 2/12/2017 6:28 PM, Robert Winn wrote:
>>> The fastest thing I know about that can be observed directly is the planet Mercury, which is going about 30 miles per second.
>>
>> Oh dear, Robert. Really? You don't know of anything that goes faster
>> than Mercury that's been observed?
>>
>> --
>> Odd Bodkin -- maker of fine toys, tools, tables
>
> Well, OK, name something that has been observed going faster than 30 miles per second.
>

Well, let's see.
The New Horizons probe.
Electrons in an electron microscope, or for that matter in a cathode ray 
tube TV.
Cosmic rays.
Protons in a particle accelerator.
Ionized atoms in the RHIC collider.

Lots of things, Robert. Where have you been?

-- 
Odd Bodkin -- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#409057

FromRobert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com>
Date2017-02-13 08:05 -0800
Message-ID<eed4646d-af9b-4264-9377-925285cc5f27@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#409041
On Monday, February 13, 2017 at 8:20:13 AM UTC-7, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> On 2/13/2017 8:47 AM, Robert Winn wrote:
> > On Monday, February 13, 2017 at 6:25:31 AM UTC-7, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> >> On 2/12/2017 6:28 PM, Robert Winn wrote:
> >>> The fastest thing I know about that can be observed directly is the planet Mercury, which is going about 30 miles per second.
> >>
> >> Oh dear, Robert. Really? You don't know of anything that goes faster
> >> than Mercury that's been observed?
> >>
> >> --
> >> Odd Bodkin -- maker of fine toys, tools, tables
> >
> > Well, OK, name something that has been observed going faster than 30 miles per second.
> >
> 
> Well, let's see.
> The New Horizons probe.
> Electrons in an electron microscope, or for that matter in a cathode ray 
> tube TV.
> Cosmic rays.
> Protons in a particle accelerator.
> Ionized atoms in the RHIC collider.
> 
> Lots of things, Robert. Where have you been?
> 
> -- 
> Odd Bodkin -- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

The New Horizons probe is only going 23 km/sec.  The rest of these things are theoretical and cannot be observed directly.  

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#409181

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2017-02-14 06:43 -0600
Message-ID<o7uu1u$iut$8@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#409057
On 2/13/2017 10:05 AM, Robert Winn wrote:
> On Monday, February 13, 2017 at 8:20:13 AM UTC-7, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>> On 2/13/2017 8:47 AM, Robert Winn wrote:
>>> On Monday, February 13, 2017 at 6:25:31 AM UTC-7, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>>>> On 2/12/2017 6:28 PM, Robert Winn wrote:
>>>>> The fastest thing I know about that can be observed directly is the planet Mercury, which is going about 30 miles per second.
>>>>
>>>> Oh dear, Robert. Really? You don't know of anything that goes faster
>>>> than Mercury that's been observed?
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Odd Bodkin -- maker of fine toys, tools, tables
>>>
>>> Well, OK, name something that has been observed going faster than 30 miles per second.
>>>
>>
>> Well, let's see.
>> The New Horizons probe.
>> Electrons in an electron microscope, or for that matter in a cathode ray
>> tube TV.
>> Cosmic rays.
>> Protons in a particle accelerator.
>> Ionized atoms in the RHIC collider.
>>
>> Lots of things, Robert. Where have you been?
>>
>> --
>> Odd Bodkin -- maker of fine toys, tools, tables
>
> The New Horizons probe is only going 23 km/sec.

Not so, Robert. It's launch speed was 16 km/sec, but since then the 
earth has changed its motion so that now you have to add to that the 30 
km/sec the earth is moving away from it. Get your facts straight.

> The rest of these things are theoretical and cannot be observed directly.

You believe that atoms, electrons, protons are theoretical and cannot be 
observed, cannot have their speed measured?

If electrons are theoretical, then how you imagine a CRT television 
actually works, Robert?


-- 
Odd Bodkin -- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#409193

FromRobert Winn <rbwinn3@gmail.com>
Date2017-02-14 06:48 -0800
Message-ID<2bc37693-b75f-48d6-a7e0-2e1afb77ee0a@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#409181
On Tuesday, February 14, 2017 at 5:43:45 AM UTC-7, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> On 2/13/2017 10:05 AM, Robert Winn wrote:
> > On Monday, February 13, 2017 at 8:20:13 AM UTC-7, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> >> On 2/13/2017 8:47 AM, Robert Winn wrote:
> >>> On Monday, February 13, 2017 at 6:25:31 AM UTC-7, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> >>>> On 2/12/2017 6:28 PM, Robert Winn wrote:
> >>>>> The fastest thing I know about that can be observed directly is the planet Mercury, which is going about 30 miles per second.
> >>>>
> >>>> Oh dear, Robert. Really? You don't know of anything that goes faster
> >>>> than Mercury that's been observed?
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Odd Bodkin -- maker of fine toys, tools, tables
> >>>
> >>> Well, OK, name something that has been observed going faster than 30 miles per second.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Well, let's see.
> >> The New Horizons probe.
> >> Electrons in an electron microscope, or for that matter in a cathode ray
> >> tube TV.
> >> Cosmic rays.
> >> Protons in a particle accelerator.
> >> Ionized atoms in the RHIC collider.
> >>
> >> Lots of things, Robert. Where have you been?
> >>
> >> --
> >> Odd Bodkin -- maker of fine toys, tools, tables
> >
> > The New Horizons probe is only going 23 km/sec.
> 
> Not so, Robert. It's launch speed was 16 km/sec, but since then the 
> earth has changed its motion so that now you have to add to that the 30 
> km/sec the earth is moving away from it. Get your facts straight.
> 
> > The rest of these things are theoretical and cannot be observed directly.
> 
> You believe that atoms, electrons, protons are theoretical and cannot be 
> observed, cannot have their speed measured?
> 
> If electrons are theoretical, then how you imagine a CRT television 
> actually works, Robert?
> 
> 
> -- 
> Odd Bodkin -- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

I have my facts straight.  The scientists who launched it say that it is traveling twenty some kilometers per second.  You seem to be trying to use the Galilean transformation equations again.  Don't they seem a little too difficult for you?

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#409223

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2017-02-14 11:26 -0600
Message-ID<o7veke$1o4s$4@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#409193
On 2/14/2017 8:48 AM, Robert Winn wrote:
> On Tuesday, February 14, 2017 at 5:43:45 AM UTC-7, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>> On 2/13/2017 10:05 AM, Robert Winn wrote:
>>> On Monday, February 13, 2017 at 8:20:13 AM UTC-7, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>>>> On 2/13/2017 8:47 AM, Robert Winn wrote:
>>>>> On Monday, February 13, 2017 at 6:25:31 AM UTC-7, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>>>>>> On 2/12/2017 6:28 PM, Robert Winn wrote:
>>>>>>> The fastest thing I know about that can be observed directly is the planet Mercury, which is going about 30 miles per second.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Oh dear, Robert. Really? You don't know of anything that goes faster
>>>>>> than Mercury that's been observed?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Odd Bodkin -- maker of fine toys, tools, tables
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, OK, name something that has been observed going faster than 30 miles per second.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Well, let's see.
>>>> The New Horizons probe.
>>>> Electrons in an electron microscope, or for that matter in a cathode ray
>>>> tube TV.
>>>> Cosmic rays.
>>>> Protons in a particle accelerator.
>>>> Ionized atoms in the RHIC collider.
>>>>
>>>> Lots of things, Robert. Where have you been?
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Odd Bodkin -- maker of fine toys, tools, tables
>>>
>>> The New Horizons probe is only going 23 km/sec.
>>
>> Not so, Robert. It's launch speed was 16 km/sec, but since then the
>> earth has changed its motion so that now you have to add to that the 30
>> km/sec the earth is moving away from it. Get your facts straight.
>>
>>> The rest of these things are theoretical and cannot be observed directly.
>>
>> You believe that atoms, electrons, protons are theoretical and cannot be
>> observed, cannot have their speed measured?
>>
>> If electrons are theoretical, then how you imagine a CRT television
>> actually works, Robert?

No answer, Robert?

>>
>>
>> --
>> Odd Bodkin -- maker of fine toys, tools, tables
>
> I have my facts straight.  The scientists who launched it say that it is traveling
> twenty some kilometers per second.

Reference, Robert?



-- 
Odd Bodkin -- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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