Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]


Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #406220 > unrolled thread

Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians?

Started byPentcho Valev <pvalev@yahoo.com>
First post2017-01-20 23:48 -0800
Last post2017-02-06 14:02 -0800
Articles 20 on this page of 633 — 30 participants

Back to article view | Back to sci.physics.relativity


Contents

  Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? Pentcho Valev <pvalev@yahoo.com> - 2017-01-20 23:48 -0800
    Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-01-21 04:49 -0800
      Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-01-21 05:24 -0800
        Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-01-21 06:43 -0800
          Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-01-21 06:51 -0800
          Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? Reid Schaffner <dnfoonio@acdnfni.info> - 2017-01-21 21:34 +0000
            Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2017-02-02 12:53 +0100
          Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? matt.rush200@outlook.com - 2017-01-27 04:44 -0800
            Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-01-27 08:39 -0800
              Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? matt.rush200@outlook.com - 2017-01-27 11:23 -0800
                Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-01-27 12:43 -0800
                  Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? matt.rush200@outlook.com - 2017-01-27 14:19 -0800
                    Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-01-27 15:51 -0800
                      Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? matt.rush200@outlook.com - 2017-01-28 04:16 -0800
                        Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-01-28 06:02 -0800
                          Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? matt.rush200@outlook.com - 2017-01-28 09:19 -0800
                            Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-01-28 10:58 -0800
                              Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? matt.rush200@outlook.com - 2017-01-28 12:55 -0800
                                Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-01-28 14:32 -0800
                                  Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? matt.rush200@outlook.com - 2017-01-29 02:56 -0800
                                    Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-01-29 04:18 -0800
                                      Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? matt.rush200@outlook.com - 2017-01-30 05:54 -0800
                                        Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-01-30 08:24 -0800
                                          Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? matt.rush200@outlook.com - 2017-01-31 03:17 -0800
                                            Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-01-31 04:56 -0800
                                              Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? matt.rush200@outlook.com - 2017-01-31 09:42 -0800
                                                Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-01-31 14:56 -0800
                                                  Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? matt.rush200@outlook.com - 2017-02-01 07:06 -0800
                                                    Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-02-02 05:39 -0800
                                                      Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-02-02 06:29 -0800
                                                      Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? matt.rush200@outlook.com - 2017-02-02 08:05 -0800
                                            Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-01-31 23:10 +0100
                                              Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? matt.rush200@outlook.com - 2017-02-01 09:25 -0800
                                                Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-02-01 21:06 +0100
                                                  Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? matt.rush200@outlook.com - 2017-02-01 17:39 -0800
                                                    Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-02-02 21:20 +0100
                                                      Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians noelturntive@live.co.uk - 2017-02-03 06:37 -0800
                                                        Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-02-03 20:53 +0100
                                                          Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians matt.rush200@outlook.com - 2017-02-03 13:08 -0800
                                                            Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-02-04 10:22 +0100
                                                              Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians Emmaline Coots <ealoa@loealoioa.los> - 2017-02-04 09:38 +0000
                                                              Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians matt.rush200@outlook.com - 2017-02-04 02:51 -0800
                                                                Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-02-04 05:26 -0800
                                                                  Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians matt.rush200@outlook.com - 2017-02-04 10:32 -0800
                                                                    Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-02-04 13:53 -0800
                                                                      Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians matt.rush200@outlook.com - 2017-02-04 15:57 -0800
                                                                        Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-02-04 20:06 -0800
                                                                          Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians matt.rush200@outlook.com - 2017-02-05 04:00 -0800
                                                                            Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-02-05 05:35 -0800
                                                                              Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians matt.rush200@outlook.com - 2017-02-05 06:02 -0800
                                                                                Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-02-05 07:10 -0800
                                                                                  Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians matt.rush200@outlook.com - 2017-02-05 10:58 -0800
                                                                                    Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-02-05 12:03 -0800
                                                                                Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-02-05 21:19 +0100
                                                                                  Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-05 13:04 -0800
                                                                                    Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-05 13:15 -0800
                                                                                      Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-05 14:44 -0800
                                                                                      Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-02-05 18:09 -0600
                                                                                        Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-06 07:15 -0800
                                                                                          Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-06 07:59 -0800
                                                                                            Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-06 08:10 -0800
                                                                                              Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-06 09:16 -0800
                                                                                                Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-06 09:58 -0800
                                                                                                  Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-06 10:55 -0800
                                                                                                    Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-06 13:56 -0800
                                                                                                      Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians Python <python@python.invalid> - 2017-02-06 23:00 +0100
                                                                                                      Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-06 16:49 -0600
                                                                                                        Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-07 07:07 -0800
                                                                                                          Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-02-07 08:32 -0800
                                                                                                            Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-07 08:57 -0800
                                                                                                          Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-07 11:19 -0600
                                                                                                      Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-06 15:36 -0800
                                                                                                      Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-06 19:39 -0800
                                                                                                  Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-06 13:33 -0600
                                                                                                    Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-06 14:25 -0800
                                                                                                      Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-06 16:59 -0600
                                                                                                        Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-02-07 06:35 -0800
                                                                                                          Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-07 11:20 -0600
                                                                                                            Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-02-07 11:46 -0800
                                                                                                              Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians Emmaline Coots <ealoa@loealoioa.los> - 2017-02-07 20:01 +0000
                                                                                                              Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-07 14:02 -0600
                                                                                                                Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-02-08 06:18 -0800
                                                                                                                  Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-08 17:08 -0600
                                                                                                                    Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-02-09 06:38 -0800
                                                                                                                      Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-09 09:35 -0600
                                                                                                                        Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-02-09 08:19 -0800
                                                                                                        Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-02-07 10:41 -0800
                                                                                          Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-06 09:44 -0800
                                                                                          Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-06 13:35 -0600
                                                                                        Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2017-02-13 20:25 -0800
                                                                                  Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians matt.rush200@outlook.com - 2017-02-05 13:41 -0800
                                                                                  Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-02-05 23:22 -0800
                                                                              Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-02-05 06:22 -0800
                                                                    Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-02-05 15:32 -0600
                                                                      Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians matt.rush200@outlook.com - 2017-02-05 14:13 -0800
                                                  Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-01 18:13 -0800
                                                Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-02-02 00:35 -0600
                                                  Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-01 22:46 -0800
                                                  Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? matt.rush200@outlook.com - 2017-02-02 04:13 -0800
                                                    Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-02-02 11:25 -0600
                                              Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-02-02 00:23 -0600
                                                Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-02-02 21:19 +0100
                                                  Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-02-02 21:20 -0600
                                                    Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? noelturntive@live.co.uk - 2017-02-03 08:36 -0800
              Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? Juliana Auerbach <jaot@tognaenn.org> - 2017-01-27 19:31 +0000
              Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? matt.rush200@outlook.com - 2017-01-27 12:29 -0800
                Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-01-27 12:54 -0800
            Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-01-28 13:48 +0100
              Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? matt.rush200@outlook.com - 2017-01-28 05:22 -0800
                Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2017-01-28 17:35 +0100
                  Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? matt.rush200@outlook.com - 2017-01-28 09:33 -0800
                  Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-01-28 09:37 -0800
                    Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-01-28 09:54 -0800
                      Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-01-28 10:07 -0800
                        Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-01-28 12:45 -0800
                    Silver mirror (was: Moving Clocks Run Slow...) Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-01-28 13:40 -0600
                      Re: Silver mirror (was: Moving Clocks Run Slow...) Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-01-28 12:56 -0800
                        Re: Silver mirror (was: Moving Clocks Run Slow...) "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-01-28 14:13 -0800
                          Re: Silver mirror (was: Moving Clocks Run Slow...) "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-01-28 14:17 -0800
                        Re: Silver mirror Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-02-02 12:13 -0600
                          Re: Silver mirror Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-02 14:51 -0800
                            Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-02 17:19 -0600
                              Re: Silver mirror Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-03 09:04 -0800
                                Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-03 11:29 -0600
                                  Re: Silver mirror kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-02-03 11:12 -0800
                                    Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-03 13:34 -0600
                                      Re: Silver mirror kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-02-03 14:29 -0800
                                      Re: Silver mirror kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-02-04 06:17 -0800
                                        Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-05 09:50 -0600
                                      Re: Silver mirror kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-02-04 06:36 -0800
                                  Re: Silver mirror Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-03 13:15 -0800
                                    Re: Silver mirror "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-03 13:42 -0800
                                    Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-03 15:49 -0600
                                      Re: Silver mirror Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-03 14:34 -0800
                                        Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-03 17:02 -0600
                                          Re: Silver mirror Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-04 09:32 -0800
                                            Re: Silver mirror rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-04 09:49 -0800
                                              Re: Silver mirror Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-04 10:26 -0800
                                                Re: Silver mirror Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-04 10:29 -0800
                                                Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-05 10:09 -0600
                                              Re: Silver mirror Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-04 12:19 -0800
                                                Re: Silver mirror rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-04 15:57 -0800
                                            Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-05 10:08 -0600
                                        Re: Silver mirror rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-03 17:46 -0800
                                          Re: Silver mirror Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-04 10:11 -0800
                                            Re: Silver mirror "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-04 10:16 -0800
                                            Re: Silver mirror rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-04 10:32 -0800
                                              Re: Silver mirror Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-04 13:03 -0800
                                                Re: Silver mirror rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-04 16:15 -0800
                                                  Re: Silver mirror Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-05 09:28 -0800
                                                    Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-05 11:33 -0600
                                                      Re: Silver mirror Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-05 09:49 -0800
                                                        Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-06 07:30 -0600
                                                          Re: Silver mirror mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-02-06 05:56 -0800
                                                          Re: Silver mirror Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-06 07:49 -0800
                                                            Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-06 13:35 -0600
                                                Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-05 10:14 -0600
                                                  Re: Silver mirror mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-02-05 23:18 -0800
                                            Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-05 10:11 -0600
                                              Re: Silver mirror benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2017-02-06 20:23 -0500
                                                Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-07 07:38 -0600
                                                  Re: Silver mirror benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2017-02-07 17:37 -0500
                                    Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-03 16:25 -0600
                                      Re: Silver mirror Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-04 08:42 -0800
                                        Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-05 10:19 -0600
                                          Re: Silver mirror benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2017-02-06 20:19 -0500
                                            Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-07 07:32 -0600
                                              Re: Silver mirror benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2017-02-07 17:35 -0500
                                            Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-07 08:18 -0600
                                              Re: Silver mirror Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-07 08:07 -0800
                                                Re: Silver mirror rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-07 08:17 -0800
                                                  Re: Silver mirror Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-07 08:34 -0800
                                                    Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-07 11:15 -0600
                                                    Re: Silver mirror rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-07 15:44 -0800
                                                      Re: Silver mirror mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-02-07 23:30 -0800
                                                  Re: Silver mirror mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-02-07 10:43 -0800
                                                Re: Silver mirror "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-07 08:33 -0800
                                                Re: Silver mirror Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@hotspam.not> - 2017-02-07 17:39 +0100
                                                Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-07 11:10 -0600
                                                  Re: Silver mirror Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-07 09:29 -0800
                                                    Re: Silver mirror "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-07 10:12 -0800
                                                      Re: Silver mirror benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2017-02-07 17:54 -0500
                                                    Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-07 12:28 -0600
                                                      Re: Silver mirror Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-07 13:30 -0800
                                                        Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-07 16:20 -0600
                                                          Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-07 16:38 -0600
                                                            Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-07 16:56 -0600
                                                              Re: Silver mirror Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-08 07:33 -0800
                                                                Re: Silver mirror rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-08 08:12 -0800
                                                                  Re: Silver mirror mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-02-08 08:23 -0800
                                                                  Re: Silver mirror Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-08 08:37 -0800
                                                                    Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-08 16:30 -0600
                                                                      Re: Silver mirror Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-09 07:23 -0800
                                                                        Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-09 09:37 -0600
                                                                          Re: Silver mirror Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-09 08:27 -0800
                                                                            Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-10 07:15 -0600
                                                                              Re: Silver mirror Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-10 09:24 -0800
                                                                                Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-11 15:39 -0600
                                                                                  Re: Silver mirror Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-12 09:21 -0800
                                                                                    Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-12 15:19 -0600
                                                                    Re: Silver mirror benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2017-02-08 18:21 -0500
                                                                      Re: Silver mirror Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-09 07:54 -0800
                                                                Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-08 14:14 -0600
                                                                  Re: Silver mirror Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-08 12:30 -0800
                                                                    Re: Silver mirror Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-02-08 16:02 -0600
                                                                      Re: Silver mirror "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-08 14:35 -0800
                                                                        Re: Silver mirror benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2017-02-08 18:39 -0500
                                                                      Re: Silver mirror mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-02-08 22:52 -0800
                                                                      Re: Silver mirror Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-09 07:08 -0800
                                                                        Re: Silver mirror rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-09 07:29 -0800
                                                                          Re: Silver mirror Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-09 08:11 -0800
                                                                            Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-10 07:15 -0600
                                                                              Re: Silver mirror Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-10 09:07 -0800
                                                                                Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-11 15:39 -0600
                                                                                  Re: Silver mirror Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-12 09:14 -0800
                                                                                    Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-12 15:24 -0600
                                                                            Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-10 07:15 -0600
                                                                              Re: Silver mirror Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-10 09:15 -0800
                                                                                Re: Silver mirror paparios <paparios@gmail.com> - 2017-02-10 10:07 -0800
                                                                                  Re: Silver mirror Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-10 12:33 -0800
                                                                                    Re: Silver mirror paparios <paparios@gmail.com> - 2017-02-10 16:21 -0800
                                                                                      Re: Silver mirror John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2017-02-10 16:52 -0800
                                                                                        Re: Silver mirror paparios <paparios@gmail.com> - 2017-02-10 17:44 -0800
                                                                                      Re: Silver mirror Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-11 07:01 -0800
                                                                                        Re: Silver mirror "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-11 10:42 -0800
                                                                                        Re: Silver mirror paparios <paparios@gmail.com> - 2017-02-11 12:22 -0800
                                                                                Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-11 15:39 -0600
                                                                                  Re: Silver mirror Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-12 09:26 -0800
                                                                                    Re: Silver mirror Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-02-12 12:20 -0600
                                                                                      Re: Silver mirror Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-12 12:29 -0800
                                                                                    Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-12 15:27 -0600
                                                                        Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-09 09:42 -0600
                                                                          Re: Silver mirror Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-09 08:41 -0800
                                                                            Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-12 15:15 -0600
                                                                          Re: Silver mirror Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-09 09:23 -0800
                                                                            Re: Silver mirror Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-09 09:31 -0800
                                                                            Re: Silver mirror Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-09 09:41 -0800
                                                                            Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-11 15:38 -0600
                                                                          Re: Silver mirror benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2017-02-09 17:23 -0500
                                                                        Re: Silver mirror Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-02-09 18:29 -0600
                                                                          Re: Silver mirror Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-10 07:16 -0800
                                                                            Re: Silver mirror Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@hotspam.not> - 2017-02-10 17:44 +0100
                                                                              Re: Silver mirror Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-10 09:32 -0800
                                                                                Re: Silver mirror Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@hotspam.not> - 2017-02-10 19:35 +0100
                                                                    Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-08 16:37 -0600
                                                                      Re: Silver mirror Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-09 07:29 -0800
                                                                        Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-12 15:15 -0600
                                                            Re: Silver mirror benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2017-02-07 18:56 -0500
                                                              Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-08 08:48 -0600
                                                                Re: Silver mirror benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2017-02-08 17:46 -0500
                                                            Re: Silver mirror mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-02-07 23:29 -0800
                                                            Re: Silver mirror Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-08 07:20 -0800
                                                              Re: Silver mirror rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-08 08:24 -0800
                                                              Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-08 14:15 -0600
                                                                Re: Silver mirror Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-08 13:01 -0800
                                                                  Re: Silver mirror Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@hotspam.not> - 2017-02-08 22:46 +0100
                                                                    Re: Silver mirror Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-09 06:51 -0800
                                                                      Re: Silver mirror rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-09 07:37 -0800
                                                                        Re: Silver mirror Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-09 08:22 -0800
                                                                      Re: Silver mirror Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@hotspam.not> - 2017-02-09 18:10 +0100
                                                                      Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-10 07:14 -0600
                                                                  Re: Silver mirror Python <python@python.invalid> - 2017-02-08 23:03 +0100
                                                                  Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-08 16:47 -0600
                                                                    Re: Silver mirror "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-08 14:56 -0800
                                                              Re: Silver mirror benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2017-02-08 17:54 -0500
                                                                Re: Silver mirror Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-09 07:39 -0800
                                                          Re: Silver mirror Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-08 07:05 -0800
                                                            Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-08 14:15 -0600
                                                            Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-08 14:15 -0600
                                                              Re: Silver mirror Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-08 13:30 -0800
                                                                Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-08 16:50 -0600
                                                            Re: Silver mirror RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2017-02-13 11:43 -0800
                                                            Re: Silver mirror RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2017-02-13 11:52 -0800
                                                        Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-07 17:46 -0600
                                                          Re: Silver mirror benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2017-02-07 21:08 -0500
                                                          Re: Silver mirror Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-08 07:51 -0800
                                                            Re: Silver mirror rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-08 08:29 -0800
                                                              Re: Silver mirror kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-02-08 08:44 -0800
                                                                Re: Silver mirror rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-08 08:59 -0800
                                                                  Re: Silver mirror kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-02-08 13:33 -0800
                                                                    Re: Silver mirror rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-08 19:16 -0800
                                                                      Re: Silver mirror mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-02-08 22:54 -0800
                                                                      Re: Silver mirror kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-02-09 06:34 -0800
                                                                        Re: Silver mirror rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-09 07:46 -0800
                                                                          Re: Silver mirror kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-02-09 08:26 -0800
                                                                Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-08 14:14 -0600
                                                                  Re: Silver mirror kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-02-08 13:23 -0800
                                                                    Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-08 16:51 -0600
                                                              Re: Silver mirror Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-08 08:48 -0800
                                                                Re: Silver mirror rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-08 09:06 -0800
                                                                  Re: Silver mirror mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-02-08 09:24 -0800
                                                                Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-08 16:30 -0600
                                                                  Re: Silver mirror Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-09 07:17 -0800
                                                                    Re: Silver mirror rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-09 08:00 -0800
                                                              Re: Silver mirror mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-02-08 09:22 -0800
                                                            Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-08 14:15 -0600
                                                              Re: Silver mirror Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-08 13:24 -0800
                                                                Re: Silver mirror Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-08 13:42 -0800
                                                                Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-08 16:56 -0600
                                                                  Re: Silver mirror kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-02-09 06:55 -0800
                                                                    Re: Silver mirror rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-09 08:03 -0800
                                                                      Re: Silver mirror Emmaline Coots <ealoa@loealoioa.los> - 2017-02-09 16:09 +0000
                                                                    Re: Silver mirror moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-02-09 23:26 +0000
                                                                    Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-10 07:14 -0600
                                                                      Re: Silver mirror kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-02-10 07:16 -0800
                                                                        Re: Silver mirror moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-02-10 18:31 +0000
                                                                          Re: Silver mirror kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-02-11 05:59 -0800
                                                                            Re: Silver mirror moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-02-11 14:20 +0000
                                                                              Re: Silver mirror kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-02-13 06:38 -0800
                                                                                Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-13 08:51 -0600
                                                                                  Re: Silver mirror kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-02-13 07:39 -0800
                                                                                    Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-13 09:47 -0600
                                                                                      Re: Silver mirror kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-02-13 10:29 -0800
                                                                                        Re: Silver mirror rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-13 11:04 -0800
                                                                                          Re: Silver mirror Sanjuanita Peeples <naalu@nwmeela.org> - 2017-02-13 19:08 +0000
                                                                                          Re: Silver mirror kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-02-13 13:12 -0800
                                                                                            Re: Silver mirror rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-13 21:06 -0800
                                                                                          Re: Silver mirror mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-02-13 23:29 -0800
                                                                                        Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 06:43 -0600
                                                                                          Re: Silver mirror mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-02-14 04:50 -0800
                                                                                    Re: Silver mirror rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-13 07:59 -0800
                                                                                      Re: Silver mirror kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-02-13 10:31 -0800
                                                                                        Re: Silver mirror rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-13 10:56 -0800
                                                                                  Re: Silver mirror mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-02-13 08:14 -0800
                                                                                Re: Silver mirror moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-02-13 16:11 +0000
                                                                                  Re: Silver mirror mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-02-13 08:16 -0800
                                                                                  Re: Silver mirror kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-02-13 10:35 -0800
                                                                                    Re: Silver mirror Sanjuanita Peeples <naalu@nwmeela.org> - 2017-02-13 18:39 +0000
                                                                                    Re: Silver mirror moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-02-14 02:28 +0000
                                                                            Re: Silver mirror rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-11 16:33 -0800
                                                                              Re: Silver mirror kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-02-12 04:28 -0800
                                                                                Re: Silver mirror rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-12 06:43 -0800
                                                                                  Re: Silver mirror kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-02-13 06:46 -0800
                                                                        Re: Silver mirror rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-10 11:06 -0800
                                                                        Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-11 15:38 -0600
                                                                          Re: Silver mirror kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-02-12 05:28 -0800
                                                                            Re: Silver mirror moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-02-12 22:25 +0000
                                                                              Re: Silver mirror kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-02-13 06:59 -0800
                                                                                Re: Silver mirror moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-02-13 16:26 +0000
                                                                                  Re: Silver mirror kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-02-13 10:49 -0800
                                                                                    Re: Silver mirror moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-02-14 02:33 +0000
                                                                  Re: Silver mirror Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-09 07:44 -0800
                                                                    Re: Silver mirror rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-09 08:15 -0800
                                                                    Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-10 07:15 -0600
                                                              Re: Silver mirror mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-02-08 13:25 -0800
                                                      Re: Silver mirror benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2017-02-07 17:57 -0500
                                                        Re: Silver mirror Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-08 07:39 -0800
                                                  Re: Silver mirror kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-02-07 11:41 -0800
                                                    Re: Silver mirror Emmaline Coots <ealoa@loealoioa.los> - 2017-02-07 19:50 +0000
                                                    Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-07 13:59 -0600
                                                      Re: Silver mirror Emmaline Coots <ealoa@loealoioa.los> - 2017-02-07 20:15 +0000
                                                      Re: Silver mirror mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-02-07 13:22 -0800
                                                    Re: Silver mirror rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-07 16:01 -0800
                                                Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-07 14:10 -0600
                                                  Re: Silver mirror Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-07 13:33 -0800
                                                    Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-07 16:08 -0600
                                                      Re: Silver mirror Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-08 06:57 -0800
                                                        Re: Silver mirror "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-08 09:54 -0800
                                                        Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-10 07:14 -0600
                                                  Re: Silver mirror kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-02-08 06:45 -0800
                                                    Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-08 14:14 -0600
                                                      Re: Silver mirror kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-02-08 13:19 -0800
                                                        Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-08 16:59 -0600
                                                          Re: Silver mirror kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-02-09 06:46 -0800
                                                            Re: Silver mirror rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-09 08:24 -0800
                                                            Re: Silver mirror moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2017-02-09 23:12 +0000
                                                            Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-10 07:14 -0600
                                                      Re: Silver mirror mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-02-08 13:19 -0800
                                              Re: Silver mirror benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2017-02-07 17:47 -0500
                                                Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-07 17:47 -0600
                                                  Re: Silver mirror benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2017-02-07 21:14 -0500
                                                    Re: Silver mirror rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-07 18:31 -0800
                                                    Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-08 08:47 -0600
                                                      Re: Silver mirror benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2017-02-08 17:50 -0500
                                                        Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-08 17:06 -0600
                                                          Re: Silver mirror benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2017-02-08 20:12 -0500
                                                            Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-09 09:21 -0600
                                                              Re: Silver mirror benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2017-02-09 17:22 -0500
                                                Re: Silver mirror Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-02-08 09:45 -0600
                                                  Re: Silver mirror Emmaline Coots <ealoa@loealoioa.los> - 2017-02-08 22:06 +0000
                                                    Re: Silver mirror benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2017-02-08 18:38 -0500
                                                  Re: Silver mirror benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2017-02-08 18:16 -0500
                                                    Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-09 08:45 -0600
                                                    Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-09 09:19 -0600
                                                      Re: Silver mirror benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2017-02-09 17:20 -0500
                                    Re: Silver mirror rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-03 18:18 -0800
                                      Re: Silver mirror mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-02-04 05:25 -0800
                                Re: Silver mirror rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-03 11:17 -0800
                                Re: Silver mirror JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2017-02-03 15:48 -0800
                          Re: Silver mirror Irvin Starrett <etrrarn@arneir.etr> - 2017-02-03 04:55 +0000
                      Re: Silver mirror (was: Moving Clocks Run Slow...) Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-01-29 09:20 -0800
                        Re: Silver mirror (was: Moving Clocks Run Slow...) rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-01-29 15:28 -0800
                          Re: Silver mirror (was: Moving Clocks Run Slow...) Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-01-31 07:34 -0800
                            Re: Silver mirror (was: Moving Clocks Run Slow...) "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-01-31 09:02 -0800
                            Re: Silver mirror (was: Moving Clocks Run Slow...) "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-01-31 09:03 -0800
                            Re: Silver mirror (was: Moving Clocks Run Slow...) rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-01-31 17:38 -0800
                              Re: Silver mirror (was: Moving Clocks Run Slow...) mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-01-31 23:19 -0800
                                Re: Silver mirror (was: Moving Clocks Run Slow...) rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-01 07:01 -0800
                              Re: Silver mirror (was: Moving Clocks Run Slow...) Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-01 07:36 -0800
                                Re: Silver mirror (was: Moving Clocks Run Slow...) rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-01 08:32 -0800
                                  Re: Silver mirror (was: Moving Clocks Run Slow...) Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-01 09:36 -0800
                                    Re: Silver mirror (was: Moving Clocks Run Slow...) "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-01 10:14 -0800
                                    Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-01 12:27 -0600
                                      Re: Silver mirror Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-01 12:15 -0800
                                        Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-01 14:46 -0600
                                          Re: Silver mirror Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-01 13:12 -0800
                                            Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-01 15:41 -0600
                                              Re: Silver mirror Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-02 08:02 -0800
                                                Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-02 10:16 -0600
                                                  Re: Silver mirror Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-02 08:55 -0800
                                                    Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-02 11:21 -0600
                                                      Re: Silver mirror Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-02 09:55 -0800
                                                        Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-02 12:18 -0600
                                            Re: Silver mirror Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-02-02 12:07 -0600
                                              Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-02 12:40 -0600
                                              Re: Silver mirror Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-02 14:25 -0800
                                                Re: Silver mirror Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-02-02 20:48 -0600
                                                  Re: Silver mirror John Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com> - 2017-02-02 19:21 -0800
                                                  Re: Silver mirror Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-03 09:26 -0800
                                                    Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-03 11:32 -0600
                                                      Re: Silver mirror Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-03 13:18 -0800
                                                        Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-03 15:52 -0600
                                                    Re: Silver mirror RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2017-02-03 10:06 -0800
                                                      Re: Silver mirror Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-03 13:38 -0800
                                                        Re: Silver mirror rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-03 17:52 -0800
                                                        Re: Silver mirror RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2017-02-06 17:21 -0800
                                                          Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-07 07:41 -0600
                                                            Re: Silver mirror benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2017-02-07 17:40 -0500
                                                              Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-07 17:48 -0600
                                                                Re: Silver mirror benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2017-02-07 21:09 -0500
                                                Re: Silver mirror rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-02 18:59 -0800
                                                  Re: Silver mirror Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-03 09:35 -0800
                                                    Re: Silver mirror rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-03 11:28 -0800
                                                      Re: Silver mirror Emmaline Coots <ealoa@loealoioa.los> - 2017-02-03 19:33 +0000
                                                      Re: Silver mirror Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-03 14:17 -0800
                                                        Re: Silver mirror "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-03 17:02 -0800
                                                          Re: Silver mirror Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-04 09:40 -0800
                                                            Re: Silver mirror "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-04 10:10 -0800
                                                              Re: Silver mirror "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-04 10:45 -0800
                                                        Re: Silver mirror "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-03 17:28 -0800
                                                        Re: Silver mirror rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-03 17:58 -0800
                                    Re: Silver mirror (was: Moving Clocks Run Slow...) rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-01 18:32 -0800
                                      Re: Silver mirror (was: Moving Clocks Run Slow...) mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-02-01 23:41 -0800
                                      Re: Silver mirror (was: Moving Clocks Run Slow...) Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-02 08:26 -0800
                                        Re: Silver mirror (was: Moving Clocks Run Slow...) rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-02 09:12 -0800
                                          Re: Silver mirror (was: Moving Clocks Run Slow...) mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-02-02 09:48 -0800
                                          Re: Silver mirror (was: Moving Clocks Run Slow...) Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-02 14:11 -0800
                                            Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-02 16:36 -0600
                                              Re: Silver mirror Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-03 10:07 -0800
                                                Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-03 12:29 -0600
                                                  Re: Silver mirror Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-03 14:06 -0800
                                                    Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-03 16:50 -0600
                                                      Re: Silver mirror Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-04 09:06 -0800
                                                        Re: Silver mirror rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-04 09:20 -0800
                                                          Re: Silver mirror Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-04 10:23 -0800
                                                            Re: Silver mirror rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-04 10:44 -0800
                                                              Re: Silver mirror Python <python@python.invalid> - 2017-02-04 19:54 +0100
                                                              Re: Silver mirror Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-04 13:15 -0800
                                                                Re: Silver mirror rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-04 16:34 -0800
                                                                  Re: Silver mirror Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-05 09:32 -0800
                                                                    Re: Silver mirror Python <python@python.invalid> - 2017-02-05 18:40 +0100
                                                                      Re: Silver mirror Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-05 10:00 -0800
                                                                        Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-06 13:36 -0600
                                                                    Re: Silver mirror "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-05 11:48 -0800
                                                                    Re: Silver mirror rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-05 15:10 -0800
                                                                      Re: Silver mirror Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-06 06:47 -0800
                                                                        Re: Silver mirror "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-06 07:04 -0800
                                                                        Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-06 13:34 -0600
                                                                          Re: Silver mirror mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-02-06 14:23 -0800
                                                                    Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-06 13:33 -0600
                                                            Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-05 10:33 -0600
                                                              Re: Silver mirror benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2017-02-06 20:29 -0500
                                                        Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-05 10:22 -0600
                                                        Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-05 10:26 -0600
                                                        Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-05 10:30 -0600
                                            Re: Silver mirror (was: Moving Clocks Run Slow...) "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-02 16:34 -0800
                                            Re: Silver mirror (was: Moving Clocks Run Slow...) rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-02 19:13 -0800
                                              Re: Silver mirror (was: Moving Clocks Run Slow...) Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-03 09:42 -0800
                                                Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-03 11:54 -0600
                                                  Re: Silver mirror Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-03 13:22 -0800
                                                    Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-03 15:55 -0600
                                                      Re: Silver mirror Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-04 07:56 -0800
                                                        Re: Silver mirror rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-04 08:13 -0800
                                                          Re: Silver mirror Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-04 10:16 -0800
                                                            Re: Silver mirror rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-04 10:36 -0800
                                                              Re: Silver mirror Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-04 13:06 -0800
                                                                Re: Silver mirror Python <python@python.invalid> - 2017-02-04 22:08 +0100
                                                                Re: Silver mirror rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-04 16:40 -0800
                                                                  Re: Silver mirror Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-05 09:38 -0800
                                                                    Re: Silver mirror rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-05 15:20 -0800
                                                                      Re: Silver mirror mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-02-05 23:27 -0800
                                                                      Re: Silver mirror Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-06 06:51 -0800
                                                                        Re: Silver mirror rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-06 07:14 -0800
                                                                        Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-06 13:35 -0600
                                                                    Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-06 07:30 -0600
                                                                      Re: Silver mirror Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-06 07:27 -0800
                                                                        Re: Silver mirror "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-06 07:38 -0800
                                                                        Re: Silver mirror rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-06 08:05 -0800
                                                                          Re: Silver mirror Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-06 08:16 -0800
                                                                            Re: Silver mirror rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-06 09:21 -0800
                                                                            Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-06 13:33 -0600
                                                                        Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-06 13:35 -0600
                                                                Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-05 10:44 -0600
                                                                  Re: Silver mirror benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2017-02-06 20:31 -0500
                                                            Re: Silver mirror RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2017-02-06 17:33 -0800
                                                        Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-05 10:42 -0600
                                                Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-03 11:58 -0600
                                                  Re: Silver mirror Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-03 13:30 -0800
                                                    Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-03 16:03 -0600
                                                      Re: Silver mirror Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-04 08:20 -0800
                                                        Re: Silver mirror rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-04 09:12 -0800
                                                        Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-02-05 10:51 -0600
                                                          Re: Silver mirror benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2017-02-06 20:39 -0500
                                                Re: Silver mirror (was: Moving Clocks Run Slow...) rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-03 11:42 -0800
                                                Re: Silver mirror (was: Moving Clocks Run Slow...) JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2017-02-03 16:03 -0800
                                            Re: Silver mirror Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-02-02 21:14 -0600
                              Re: Silver mirror (was: Moving Clocks Run Slow...) Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-01 08:10 -0800
                                Re: Silver mirror (was: Moving Clocks Run Slow...) rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-01 08:44 -0800
                        Re: Silver mirror (was: Moving Clocks Run Slow...) "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-01-29 16:19 -0800
                          Re: Silver mirror (was: Moving Clocks Run Slow...) rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-01-29 17:29 -0800
                          Re: Silver mirror (was: Moving Clocks Run Slow...) Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-01-30 06:59 -0800
                            Re: Silver mirror Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-01-30 09:07 -0600
                            Re: Silver mirror (was: Moving Clocks Run Slow...) "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-01-30 10:11 -0800
                      Re: Silver mirror (was: Moving Clocks Run Slow...) RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2017-02-05 17:39 -0800
                        Re: Silver mirror Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-02-05 20:12 -0600
                          Re: Silver mirror "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-05 19:09 -0800
      Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? Reid Schaffner <dnfoonio@acdnfni.info> - 2017-01-21 21:28 +0000
    Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-01-21 07:01 -0800
    Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-01-21 07:49 -0800
      Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-01-21 08:17 -0800
        Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-01-21 10:00 -0800
          Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-01-21 20:03 -0600
            Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? Reid Schaffner <dnfoonio@acdnfni.info> - 2017-01-22 02:55 +0000
            Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-01-22 01:15 -0800
            Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-01-22 06:20 -0800
            Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-01-22 08:54 -0800
              Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-01-22 13:12 -0600
                Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-01-22 13:16 -0800
                  Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-01-22 13:21 -0800
                Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-01-22 13:44 -0800
                  Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-01-22 14:47 -0800
                    Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-01-23 07:32 -0800
                  Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-01-22 16:18 -0800
                    Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? xxein1@att.net - 2017-01-22 20:40 -0800
                      Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-01-23 12:23 -0800
                      Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-01-23 18:03 -0600
                    Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-01-22 21:10 -0800
                      Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-01-23 12:10 -0800
                        Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-01-23 12:44 -0800
                    Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-01-23 07:07 -0800
                      Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-01-23 12:19 -0800
                        Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-01-23 12:23 -0800
                        Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-01-23 13:34 -0800
                          Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-01-23 13:52 -0800
                          Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-01-23 19:13 -0800
                            Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-01-23 23:33 -0800
                            Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-01-24 08:01 -0800
                              Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-01-24 18:41 -0800
                            Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-01-24 08:35 -0800
                              Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2017-01-24 12:49 -0800
                                Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-01-24 13:18 -0800
                                  Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-01-24 14:21 -0800
                                    Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-01-24 14:26 -0800
                                      Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-01-24 14:52 -0800
                                    Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-01-25 06:51 -0800
                                      Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-01-25 07:09 -0800
                                        Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-01-25 07:30 -0800
                                          Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-01-25 07:50 -0800
                                  Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-01-24 18:50 -0800
                                    Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-01-25 07:12 -0800
                                      Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-01-25 07:54 -0800
                                        Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-01-25 08:14 -0800
                                          Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-01-25 09:03 -0800
                                            Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-01-25 09:31 -0800
                                          Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-01-25 10:05 -0800
                              Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-01-24 18:46 -0800
                  Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-01-23 11:53 -0600
                    Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-01-23 13:18 -0800
                      Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-01-23 15:29 -0600
                        Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-01-23 13:47 -0800
                          Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-01-23 16:28 -0600
                            Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-01-24 07:29 -0800
                              Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-01-24 10:45 -0600
                                Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-01-24 09:45 -0800
                                  Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-01-25 05:42 -0600
                                    Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-01-25 07:21 -0800
                                      Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-01-25 10:22 -0600
                                Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-01-24 13:21 -0800
                                  Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2017-01-24 13:31 -0800
                                    Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2017-01-25 09:45 -0800
                                      Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-02-02 21:17 -0600
                                        Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2017-02-03 10:13 -0800
                                        Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? Emmaline Coots <ealoa@loealoioa.los> - 2017-02-03 20:15 +0000
                                  Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-01-24 13:33 -0800
                        Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-01-23 13:57 -0800
                          Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-01-23 16:32 -0600
                            Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-01-24 07:36 -0800
                              Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-01-24 07:42 -0800
                                Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-01-24 08:16 -0800
                              Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2017-01-24 10:47 -0600
                                Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-01-24 10:00 -0800
                      Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2017-01-23 14:18 -0800
                        Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-01-23 23:24 -0800
                        Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-01-24 07:03 -0800
                      Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2017-01-23 17:39 -0800
                        Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2017-01-23 17:44 -0800
                        Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2017-01-23 19:33 -0800
          Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-01-22 06:04 -0800
      Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-01-21 20:18 -0600
        Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? xxein1@att.net - 2017-01-21 19:31 -0800
          Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? Reid Schaffner <dnfoonio@acdnfni.info> - 2017-01-22 07:18 +0000
          Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-01-23 12:59 -0600
            Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-01-23 11:42 -0800
        Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-01-22 09:13 -0800
          Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-01-22 09:29 -0800
            Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-01-22 09:51 -0800
              Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-01-22 10:04 -0800
                Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-01-22 10:15 -0800
                  Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-01-22 10:23 -0800
                    Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-01-22 10:37 -0800
                      Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-01-22 10:42 -0800
      Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2017-01-22 05:59 -0800
    Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? Pentcho Valev <pvalev@yahoo.com> - 2017-01-21 15:50 -0800
      Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? Reid Schaffner <dnfoonio@acdnfni.info> - 2017-01-22 00:30 +0000
    Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2017-01-22 13:25 +1100
    Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2017-01-21 22:30 -0800
      Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? Larisa Kull <looaiuoais@kesfgais.org> - 2017-01-22 07:41 +0000
        Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2017-01-22 21:42 -0800
    Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-01-24 08:44 -0800
      Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-01-24 09:33 -0800
    Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? "David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-01-30 11:05 -0800
    Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? shelfstackerextraordinaire@gmail.com - 2017-02-06 10:58 -0800
      Re: Moving Clocks Run Slow or... Fast, Einsteinians? Ed Lake <detect@newsguy.com> - 2017-02-06 14:02 -0800

Page 12 of 32 — ← Prev page 1 … 10 11 [12] 13 14 … 32  Next page →


#408779 — Re: Silver mirror

Frompaparios <paparios@gmail.com>
Date2017-02-10 16:21 -0800
SubjectRe: Silver mirror
Message-ID<023cf5f6-c886-477f-8b90-42a95b3a6b11@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#408758
El viernes, 10 de febrero de 2017, 17:33:54 (UTC-3), Ed Lake  escribió:
> On Friday, February 10, 2017 at 12:08:01 PM UTC-6, paparios wrote:

> Everyone knows this.  You misunderstood the argument. How do you measure the speed of light coming from the Alpha Centauri?  You can't do it with rotating mirrors or gears.  
> 
> Ed

Why would anyone be interested in measuring, specifically, the speed of light of the light coming from Alpha Centauri?

All the different measurements of the speed of light (read the wikipedia article) results in the same result 299792 km/sec +/- some error dependent on the measurement method. The different methods include astronomical, time of flight, electromagnetic constants, cavity resonance and interferometry.

Alpha Centaury light travels through vacuum space (as the light of all universe objects) and so there is no logical reason to think its value would be different from the vacuum light speed as measured here on our laboratories.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#408781 — Re: Silver mirror

FromJohn Gogo <jfgogo22@yahoo.com>
Date2017-02-10 16:52 -0800
SubjectRe: Silver mirror
Message-ID<a921e8b3-413c-4158-a6dc-e2f7b65f26fb@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#408779
On Friday, February 10, 2017 at 6:21:43 PM UTC-6, paparios wrote:
> El viernes, 10 de febrero de 2017, 17:33:54 (UTC-3), Ed Lake  escribió:
> > On Friday, February 10, 2017 at 12:08:01 PM UTC-6, paparios wrote:
> 
> > Everyone knows this.  You misunderstood the argument. How do you measure the speed of light coming from the Alpha Centauri?  You can't do it with rotating mirrors or gears.  
> > 
> > Ed
> 
> Why would anyone be interested in measuring, specifically, the speed of light of the light coming from Alpha Centauri?
> 
> All the different measurements of the speed of light (read the wikipedia article) results in the same result 299792 km/sec +/- some error dependent on the measurement method. The different methods include astronomical, time of flight, electromagnetic constants, cavity resonance and interferometry.
> 
> Alpha Centaury light travels through vacuum space (as the light of all universe objects) and so there is no logical reason to think its value would be different from the vacuum light speed as measured here on our laboratories.

You can't just smooth them all through like that. How are we supposed to learn anything if we just took what you said for granted. All these methods (Astronomical, time of flight, electromagnetic constants, cavity resonance, and interferometry are in themselves distinguishable. Why don't we expand on their distinguishability?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#408792 — Re: Silver mirror

Frompaparios <paparios@gmail.com>
Date2017-02-10 17:44 -0800
SubjectRe: Silver mirror
Message-ID<579d9656-7411-451f-9cad-98884baa623b@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#408781
El viernes, 10 de febrero de 2017, 21:52:07 (UTC-3), John Gogo  escribió:
> On Friday, February 10, 2017 at 6:21:43 PM UTC-6, paparios wrote:
> > El viernes, 10 de febrero de 2017, 17:33:54 (UTC-3), Ed Lake  escribió:
> > > On Friday, February 10, 2017 at 12:08:01 PM UTC-6, paparios wrote:
> > 
> > > Everyone knows this.  You misunderstood the argument. How do you measure the speed of light coming from the Alpha Centauri?  You can't do it with rotating mirrors or gears.  
> > > 
> > > Ed
> > 
> > Why would anyone be interested in measuring, specifically, the speed of light of the light coming from Alpha Centauri?
> > 
> > All the different measurements of the speed of light (read the wikipedia article) results in the same result 299792 km/sec +/- some error dependent on the measurement method. The different methods include astronomical, time of flight, electromagnetic constants, cavity resonance and interferometry.
> > 
> > Alpha Centaury light travels through vacuum space (as the light of all universe objects) and so there is no logical reason to think its value would be different from the vacuum light speed as measured here on our laboratories.
> 
> You can't just smooth them all through like that. How are we supposed to learn anything if we just took what you said for granted. All these methods (Astronomical, time of flight, electromagnetic constants, cavity resonance, and interferometry are in themselves distinguishable. Why don't we expand on their distinguishability?

If the measured results from all those methods were sensible different, then you could try to research why they are so. But the fact is that all of those methods give a result equal to 299792 km/sec within a small error (which is smaller than 1 km/sec).

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#408815 — Re: Silver mirror

FromEd Lake <detect@newsguy.com>
Date2017-02-11 07:01 -0800
SubjectRe: Silver mirror
Message-ID<c12f086c-bf6f-4117-9ac6-feec312cafe8@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#408779
On Friday, February 10, 2017 at 6:21:43 PM UTC-6, paparios wrote:
> El viernes, 10 de febrero de 2017, 17:33:54 (UTC-3), Ed Lake  escribió:
> > On Friday, February 10, 2017 at 12:08:01 PM UTC-6, paparios wrote:
> 
> > Everyone knows this.  You misunderstood the argument. How do you measure the speed of light coming from the Alpha Centauri?  You can't do it with rotating mirrors or gears.  
> > 
> > Ed
> 
> Why would anyone be interested in measuring, specifically, the speed of light of the light coming from Alpha Centauri?
> 
> All the different measurements of the speed of light (read the wikipedia article) results in the same result 299792 km/sec +/- some error dependent on the measurement method. The different methods include astronomical, time of flight, electromagnetic constants, cavity resonance and interferometry.
> 
> Alpha Centaury light travels through vacuum space (as the light of all universe objects) and so there is no logical reason to think its value would be different from the vacuum light speed as measured here on our laboratories.

Which laboratory?  There is GOOD reason to believe that the speed of light is measured to travel at a different speed in virtually EVERY laboratory.  Yes, they all measure the speed of light to be 299,792,458 kilometers PER SECOND, but FACTS AND EXPERIMENTS involving time dilation say that the LENGTH OF A SECOND is different just about everywhere.  And if the length of a second is different in one laboratory versus another laboratory, the speed of light PER SECOND they measure is also different.

I just used Alpha Centauri to illustrate the point that we do not have any way of measuring the speed of light coming from ANY star in the universe.  If the speed of light IS different in nearly every laboratory on earth, then it is different for nearly every star in the universe.

Ed

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#408828 — Re: Silver mirror

From"David (Lord Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com>
Date2017-02-11 10:42 -0800
SubjectRe: Silver mirror
Message-ID<b137de1a-a3ad-4d24-ba89-433b0ce5c2d2@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#408815
Which laboratory?  There is GOOD reason to believe that the speed of light is measured to travel at a different speed in virtually EVERY laboratory.  Yes, they all measure the speed of light to be 299,792,458 kilometers PER SECOND, but FACTS AND EXPERIMENTS involving time dilation say that the LENGTH OF A SECOND is different just about everywhere.  And if ...

https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCliSRiiRVQuDfgxI_QN_Fmw/search?query=electromagnetics

Learn something about electromagnetics !!!!!!!!!

It will say,when measured,the speed of light will always be 299792458 m/s

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#408843 — Re: Silver mirror

Frompaparios <paparios@gmail.com>
Date2017-02-11 12:22 -0800
SubjectRe: Silver mirror
Message-ID<11f4491c-5947-4edf-9600-f835c6d159f9@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#408815
El sábado, 11 de febrero de 2017, 12:01:17 (UTC-3), Ed Lake  escribió:
> On Friday, February 10, 2017 at 6:21:43 PM UTC-6, paparios wrote:
> > El viernes, 10 de febrero de 2017, 17:33:54 (UTC-3), Ed Lake  escribió:
> > > On Friday, February 10, 2017 at 12:08:01 PM UTC-6, paparios wrote:
> > 
> > > Everyone knows this.  You misunderstood the argument. How do you measure the speed of light coming from the Alpha Centauri?  You can't do it with rotating mirrors or gears.  
> > > 
> > > Ed
> > 
> > Why would anyone be interested in measuring, specifically, the speed of light of the light coming from Alpha Centauri?
> > 
> > All the different measurements of the speed of light (read the wikipedia article) results in the same result 299792 km/sec +/- some error dependent on the measurement method. The different methods include astronomical, time of flight, electromagnetic constants, cavity resonance and interferometry.
> > 
> > Alpha Centaury light travels through vacuum space (as the light of all universe objects) and so there is no logical reason to think its value would be different from the vacuum light speed as measured here on our laboratories.
> 
> Which laboratory?  There is GOOD reason to believe that the speed of light is measured to travel at a different speed in virtually EVERY laboratory.  Yes, they all measure the speed of light to be 299,792,458 kilometers PER SECOND, but FACTS AND EXPERIMENTS involving time dilation say that the LENGTH OF A SECOND is different just about everywhere.  And if the length of a second is different in one laboratory versus another laboratory, the speed of light PER SECOND they measure is also different.
> 
> I just used Alpha Centauri to illustrate the point that we do not have any way of measuring the speed of light coming from ANY star in the universe.  If the speed of light IS different in nearly every laboratory on earth, then it is different for nearly every star in the universe.
> 
> Ed

Well, it is clear you know nothing about how physicists measure things, or how laboratories are used. In our lab we can, for sure, measure the speed of light using the interferometry methods. Do we actually measure the speed of light? Hell not, as that experiment has been made zillions of times and provides no scientific interest to the physics community. Fact is that the speed of light in vacuum has been measured with m/sec precision and so thinking any star will give a different value is clearly stupid

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#408860 — Re: Silver mirror

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2017-02-11 15:39 -0600
SubjectRe: Silver mirror
Message-ID<o7o0a6$175u$10@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#408733
On 2/10/2017 11:15 AM, Ed Lake wrote:
> On Friday, February 10, 2017 at 7:15:23 AM UTC-6, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>> On 2/9/2017 10:11 AM, Ed Lake wrote:
>>> Okay.  I should have said "There is no way to PRECISELY measure the speed of light except
>>> for light that you create yourself."  You can get APPROXIMATIONS the way Roemer did.
>>
>> Roemer's number was rough only because it was done in 1676!!
>> You can get a really good number today from a distant source. You should
>> perhaps check out some of the more recent experimental results.
>
> Please provide a link to some "recent experimental results."

Already did. See the link from pdg.lbl.gov.

As I said, your ability to research the measurements is pretty awful.
Try scholar.google.com with search term: astronomical measurement speed 
of light. See more than 12 results? What dates are they?

> They settled on 299,752,458 meters per SECOND as the speed of light in 1983.  Have they
> found any different results in recent experiments?  Have some RECENT experiments done
> anything but confirmed the 1983 number is what they get in their lab using their length
> of a second?  What experiments?  Some you IMAGINE someone performed?
>
> Ed
>


-- 
Odd Bodkin -- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#408940 — Re: Silver mirror

FromEd Lake <detect@newsguy.com>
Date2017-02-12 09:26 -0800
SubjectRe: Silver mirror
Message-ID<5890c263-d649-4c19-b965-0d238028025b@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#408860
On Saturday, February 11, 2017 at 3:39:21 PM UTC-6, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> On 2/10/2017 11:15 AM, Ed Lake wrote:
> > On Friday, February 10, 2017 at 7:15:23 AM UTC-6, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> >> On 2/9/2017 10:11 AM, Ed Lake wrote:
> >>> Okay.  I should have said "There is no way to PRECISELY measure the speed of light except
> >>> for light that you create yourself."  You can get APPROXIMATIONS the way Roemer did.
> >>
> >> Roemer's number was rough only because it was done in 1676!!
> >> You can get a really good number today from a distant source. You should
> >> perhaps check out some of the more recent experimental results.
> >
> > Please provide a link to some "recent experimental results."
> 
> Already did. See the link from pdg.lbl.gov.
> 
> As I said, your ability to research the measurements is pretty awful.
> Try scholar.google.com with search term: astronomical measurement speed 
> of light. See more than 12 results? What dates are they?

I'm not going to dig through a list of IRRELEVANT article to see if I can find something that supports your BELIEFS.

If you have a way to measure the speed of light coming from a distant source, DESCRIBE IT.  Or cite the article and DESCRIBE or QUOTE how the article says it is done. 

Ed

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#408945 — Re: Silver mirror

FromTom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net>
Date2017-02-12 12:20 -0600
SubjectRe: Silver mirror
Message-ID<_YqdnR3_uuH-Oj3FnZ2dnUU7_83NnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#408940
On 2/12/17 2/12/17   11:26 AM, Ed Lake wrote:
> If you have a way to measure the speed of light coming from a distant source, DESCRIBE IT.

Much better is to measure the difference in propagation speeds (arrival times) 
from distant sources moving differently but known to start together.

A convenient model is that the propagation speed of light from a source moving 
with speed v (toward or away from the observer) is c+k*v, and use observations 
to determine the value of k.

A supernova explosion sends debris out in all directions with speeds of 10,000 
km/s or more (known from Doppler broadening of spectral lines). If the speed of 
light depended on the source velocity, its arrival at Earth would be spread out 
in time due to the spread of source velocities. Such a time spread is not 
observed, and observations of distant supernovae give k < 5×10−9.

Note that if k were equal to 1, we would not even call them "supernovas", as 
their light would straggle in over a period of centuries to millennia and we 
would probably not notice them; if we did, we would call them something else 
because over time the wavelengths of spectroscopic peaks in their light would 
move from short to long wavelengths. Actual supernovas have times of maximum 
brightness usually between a few days to a few weeks, and their spectra remain 
constant.

Your FANTASY that the speed of the source adds to the speed of emitted light is 
just plain wrong. The above is only one of dozens of measurements showing it to 
be wrong.

     http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/SR/experiments.html

Tom Roberts

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#408957 — Re: Silver mirror

FromEd Lake <detect@newsguy.com>
Date2017-02-12 12:29 -0800
SubjectRe: Silver mirror
Message-ID<df9c664e-3591-4647-baa7-6e90b7f2935d@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#408945
On Sunday, February 12, 2017 at 12:20:26 PM UTC-6, tjrob137 wrote:
> On 2/12/17 2/12/17   11:26 AM, Ed Lake wrote:
> > If you have a way to measure the speed of light coming from a distant source, DESCRIBE IT.
> 
> Much better is to measure the difference in propagation speeds (arrival times) 
> from distant sources moving differently but known to start together.
> 
> A convenient model is that the propagation speed of light from a source moving 
> with speed v (toward or away from the observer) is c+k*v, and use observations 
> to determine the value of k.
> 
> A supernova explosion sends debris out in all directions with speeds of 10,000 
> km/s or more (known from Doppler broadening of spectral lines). If the speed of 
> light depended on the source velocity, its arrival at Earth would be spread out 
> in time due to the spread of source velocities. Such a time spread is not 
> observed, and observations of distant supernovae give k < 5×10−9.
> 
> Note that if k were equal to 1, we would not even call them "supernovas", as 
> their light would straggle in over a period of centuries to millennia and we 
> would probably not notice them; if we did, we would call them something else 
> because over time the wavelengths of spectroscopic peaks in their light would 
> move from short to long wavelengths. Actual supernovas have times of maximum 
> brightness usually between a few days to a few weeks, and their spectra remain 
> constant.
> 
> Your FANTASY that the speed of the source adds to the speed of emitted light is 
> just plain wrong. The above is only one of dozens of measurements showing it to 
> be wrong.
> 
>      http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/SR/experiments.html
> 
> Tom Roberts

You are becoming confused or you are fantasizing.  NO ONE argued that "the speed of the source adds to the speed of emitted light."  I think EVERYONE HERE agrees that you CANNOT add the speed of the source to the speed of light.  It's about the ONLY thing we all agree upon.

The question was: How do you PRECISELY measure the speed of light from a distant source?  They've been calculating approximations since the 1676 when Olaus Roemer used Jupiter's satellites to calculate an APPROXIMATE speed of light as 214,000 kilometers per second.  He was off by 85,792 kps or about 7%.  Your examples would just provide more approximations.

If you want to compare the speed of light from the sun to the speed of light you create in a lab, the difference, if there is any, will probably be less than one kilometer per second.    

Ed

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#408965 — Re: Silver mirror

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2017-02-12 15:27 -0600
SubjectRe: Silver mirror
Message-ID<o7qjva$1be9$2@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#408940
On 2/12/2017 11:26 AM, Ed Lake wrote:
> On Saturday, February 11, 2017 at 3:39:21 PM UTC-6, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>> On 2/10/2017 11:15 AM, Ed Lake wrote:
>>> On Friday, February 10, 2017 at 7:15:23 AM UTC-6, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>>>> On 2/9/2017 10:11 AM, Ed Lake wrote:
>>>>> Okay.  I should have said "There is no way to PRECISELY measure the speed of light except
>>>>> for light that you create yourself."  You can get APPROXIMATIONS the way Roemer did.
>>>>
>>>> Roemer's number was rough only because it was done in 1676!!
>>>> You can get a really good number today from a distant source. You should
>>>> perhaps check out some of the more recent experimental results.
>>>
>>> Please provide a link to some "recent experimental results."
>>
>> Already did. See the link from pdg.lbl.gov.
>>
>> As I said, your ability to research the measurements is pretty awful.
>> Try scholar.google.com with search term: astronomical measurement speed
>> of light. See more than 12 results? What dates are they?
>
> I'm not going to dig through a list of IRRELEVANT article to see if I can find something
> that supports your BELIEFS.

In other words, you're saying you're not going to do the library 
research that all physicists do as part of their work, and that all 
physicists students learn to do as part of their studies?

You just don't have the time to find the data? Is that it?

Then what the hell are you doing making up stuff about time dilation if 
you don't know what the data are?

>
> If you have a way to measure the speed of light coming from a distant source, DESCRIBE
> IT.  Or cite the article and DESCRIBE or QUOTE how the article says it is done.

I've given you the references. I had assumed you could read until I 
discovered that you haven't actually manage to even wade through 
Einstein's first paper on relativity. Who's problem is that?

>
> Ed
>


-- 
Odd Bodkin -- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#408607 — Re: Silver mirror

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2017-02-09 09:42 -0600
SubjectRe: Silver mirror
Message-ID<o7i2lp$1gvs$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#408591
On 2/9/2017 9:08 AM, Ed Lake wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 8, 2017 at 4:02:44 PM UTC-6, tjrob137 wrote:
>> On 2/8/17 2/8/17   2:30 PM, Ed Lake wrote:
>>> There is NO evidence that light will slow down to compensate for the speed of
>>> an oncoming ship so that the ship will measure the oncoming light as arriving
>>> at c.
>>
>> You are wrong, when one replaces your "ship" with the earth, and realizes that
>> this is not any sort of "slow down".
>>
>> The annual Doppler effect shows that the wavelength of light from distant
>> astronomical objects varies as the earth orbits the sun, accurately matching the
>> predictions of SR. The same holds for the frequencies of microwave signals from
>> distant objects. Combining the two effects shows that the phase speed of light
>> in vacuum is always c.
>>
>
> I'm not sure exactly what you are talking about, but the Doppler effect just shows
> that either the emitting source or the detecting source is moving or both are moving.
> It says nothing about the actual speed of light.

Nor does it have to. You can measure the speed of the light DIRECTLY.

>
> There is no way to measure the speed of light except for light that you create yourself.

FLAT WRONG. You are obviously unaware of the experimental methods.

> Detecting a photon destroys the photon.  So, you cannot detect it at two different locations.
>

If you have a CLUMP of photons traveling together, you sample some of 
them at the first location, and you sample some more at the next location.

There is also angular aberration as a way of measuring the speed of light.

There is also using the regularity of a body's orbit as a handle on the 
speed of light, which is how the speed of light from a distant 
astronomical body was first measured. You can look it up.

There's a half-dozen other methods that you are ignorant of.

Please consider the possibility that your limited imagination about how 
to do things is not a limitation of physicists.



-- 
Odd Bodkin -- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#408625 — Re: Silver mirror

FromEd Lake <detect@newsguy.com>
Date2017-02-09 08:41 -0800
SubjectRe: Silver mirror
Message-ID<8fa9c016-1722-43a6-bb9a-eb3063b7477e@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#408607
On Thursday, February 9, 2017 at 9:42:53 AM UTC-6, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> On 2/9/2017 9:08 AM, Ed Lake wrote:

> > I'm not sure exactly what you are talking about, but the Doppler effect just shows
> > that either the emitting source or the detecting source is moving or both are moving.
> > It says nothing about the actual speed of light.
> 
> Nor does it have to. You can measure the speed of the light DIRECTLY.
> 
> >
> > There is no way to measure the speed of light except for light that you create yourself.
> 
> FLAT WRONG. You are obviously unaware of the experimental methods.
> 
> > Detecting a photon destroys the photon.  So, you cannot detect it at two different locations.
> >
> 
> If you have a CLUMP of photons traveling together, you sample some of 
> them at the first location, and you sample some more at the next location.
> 

Only if you created the "clump of photons" (a.k.a. "pulse") yourself.  Otherwise, there is no way to know that the photons were emitted together or WHEN they were emitted.

> There is also angular aberration as a way of measuring the speed of light.
> 

APPROXIMATE measurements.

> There is also using the regularity of a body's orbit as a handle on the
speed of light, which is how the speed of light from a distant
astronomical body was first measured. You can look it up.

> There's a half-dozen other methods that you are ignorant of.

None of those methods are precise enough to settle any issue involving the speed of light from one object versus another.  They just provide approximations of the speed of light.   

Ed

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#408961 — Re: Silver mirror

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2017-02-12 15:15 -0600
SubjectRe: Silver mirror
Message-ID<o7qj9i$1ace$3@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#408625
On 2/9/2017 10:41 AM, Ed Lake wrote:
> On Thursday, February 9, 2017 at 9:42:53 AM UTC-6, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>> On 2/9/2017 9:08 AM, Ed Lake wrote:
>
>>> I'm not sure exactly what you are talking about, but the Doppler effect just shows
>>> that either the emitting source or the detecting source is moving or both are moving.
>>> It says nothing about the actual speed of light.
>>
>> Nor does it have to. You can measure the speed of the light DIRECTLY.
>>
>>>
>>> There is no way to measure the speed of light except for light that you create yourself.
>>
>> FLAT WRONG. You are obviously unaware of the experimental methods.
>>
>>> Detecting a photon destroys the photon.  So, you cannot detect it at two different locations.
>>>
>>
>> If you have a CLUMP of photons traveling together, you sample some of
>> them at the first location, and you sample some more at the next location.
>>
>
> Only if you created the "clump of photons" (a.k.a. "pulse") yourself.  Otherwise,
> there is no way to know that the photons were emitted together or WHEN they were emitted.

As I said, you don't need to know WHEN they were emitted, any more than 
a police officer has to know when you left the house to know that you 
are speeding now.

All that you need to verify is that the pulse in location A is the same 
pulse as in location B. This is also a problem easily solved 
experimentally. You also have to know that the pulse is not spreading in 
time as it travels or changing speed, which you can determine by 
sampling in three locations, which is commonly done.

Again, Ed, THINK.

>
>> There is also angular aberration as a way of measuring the speed of light.
>>
>
> APPROXIMATE measurements.

No measurement is exact, but it doesn't HAVE to be to distinguish 
between two candidate predictions. THINK, Ed, THINK.

>
>> There is also using the regularity of a body's orbit as a handle on the
> speed of light, which is how the speed of light from a distant
> astronomical body was first measured. You can look it up.
>
>> There's a half-dozen other methods that you are ignorant of.
>
> None of those methods are precise enough to settle any issue involving the
> speed of light from one object versus another.  They just provide approximations
> of the speed of light.

That is simply NOT TRUE, Ed. If you read the experimental papers, there 
is considerable attention paid to what the value of the precision of the 
measured number is. This is often called "systematic and statistical 
error" and is a standard way of expressing numerically how good that 
measured number is. The basics of how to determine that number is taught 
in high-school physics, and of course the professionals learn more 
sophisticated techniques for that determination. It is a core skill of 
experimental physics.

If you want to know how good the measured numbers are, all you need to 
do is read the experimental papers AND UNDERSTAND THEM.

>
> Ed
>


-- 
Odd Bodkin -- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#408630 — Re: Silver mirror

FromEd Lake <detect@newsguy.com>
Date2017-02-09 09:23 -0800
SubjectRe: Silver mirror
Message-ID<b7fae22d-f42e-4183-bf38-68181a91e20e@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#408607
Date 	Author 	        Method 	                Result(km/s)	Error
1676 	Olaus Roemer 	Jupiter's satellites 	214,000 	
1726 	James Bradley 	Stellar Aberration 	301,000 	
1849 	Armand Fizeau 	Toothed Wheel 	315,000 	
1862 	Leon Foucault 	Rotating Mirror 	298,000 	+-500
1879 	Albert Michelson 	Rotating Mirror 	299,910 	+-50
1907 	Rosa, Dorsay 	Electromagnetic constants 	299,788 	+-30
1926 	Albert Michelson 	Rotating Mirror 	299,796 	+-4
1947 	Essen, Gorden-Smith 	Cavity Resonator 	299,792 	+-3
1958 	K. D. Froome 	Radio Interferometer 	299,792.5 	+-0.1
1973 	Evanson et al 	Lasers 	                299,792.4574 	+-0.001
1983 		Adopted Value 	                299,792.458 	

Since 1879, the only way we have been measuring the speed of light is in a lab using equipment that emits and measures the light.

We cannot precisely measure light coming from some distant star.  For all we know, light from every star in the night sky could be coming to us at a slightly different rate.

We KNOW the speed of light in a vacuum is NOT a universal constant because we can easily detect differences in the speed of light between one lab and another.  For some unknown reason, no one has bothered to do so.

If the speed of light is measured at 299,792,458 meters per SECOND at the NIST labs in mile-high Boulder, Colorado, and if it is also measured at 299,792,458 meters per SECOND at some lab near sea level, we know from experiments that the LENGTH OF A SECOND is different at those two altitudes, so THE SPEED OF LIGHT MUST ALSO BE DIFFERENT.  

All that is needed is to compare BOTH the speed of light AND the length of a second at two such locations.  For some reason, no one has ever done this and told anyone about it.  They just measure the speed of light at their location.  And they measure the length of a second without measuring the speed of light at the same location.

Ed

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#408633 — Re: Silver mirror

FromEd Lake <detect@newsguy.com>
Date2017-02-09 09:31 -0800
SubjectRe: Silver mirror
Message-ID<e4aefc4f-bbc8-4b42-9a0c-71b032addbaa@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#408630
I'm getting all kinds of goofy problems which seem to be caused by the length of this thread.  So, I just used this comment to start a NEW thread about "Measuring Time and Light." Please post your comments there.



On Thursday, February 9, 2017 at 11:23:54 AM UTC-6, Ed Lake wrote:
> Date 	Author 	        Method 	                Result(km/s)	Error
> 1676 	Olaus Roemer 	Jupiter's satellites 	214,000 	
> 1726 	James Bradley 	Stellar Aberration 	301,000 	
> 1849 	Armand Fizeau 	Toothed Wheel 	315,000 	
> 1862 	Leon Foucault 	Rotating Mirror 	298,000 	+-500
> 1879 	Albert Michelson 	Rotating Mirror 	299,910 	+-50
> 1907 	Rosa, Dorsay 	Electromagnetic constants 	299,788 	+-30
> 1926 	Albert Michelson 	Rotating Mirror 	299,796 	+-4
> 1947 	Essen, Gorden-Smith 	Cavity Resonator 	299,792 	+-3
> 1958 	K. D. Froome 	Radio Interferometer 	299,792.5 	+-0.1
> 1973 	Evanson et al 	Lasers 	                299,792.4574 	+-0.001
> 1983 		Adopted Value 	                299,792.458 	
> 
> Since 1879, the only way we have been measuring the speed of light is in a lab using equipment that emits and measures the light.
> 
> We cannot precisely measure light coming from some distant star.  For all we know, light from every star in the night sky could be coming to us at a slightly different rate.
> 
> We KNOW the speed of light in a vacuum is NOT a universal constant because we can easily detect differences in the speed of light between one lab and another.  For some unknown reason, no one has bothered to do so.
> 
> If the speed of light is measured at 299,792,458 meters per SECOND at the NIST labs in mile-high Boulder, Colorado, and if it is also measured at 299,792,458 meters per SECOND at some lab near sea level, we know from experiments that the LENGTH OF A SECOND is different at those two altitudes, so THE SPEED OF LIGHT MUST ALSO BE DIFFERENT.  
> 
> All that is needed is to compare BOTH the speed of light AND the length of a second at two such locations.  For some reason, no one has ever done this and told anyone about it.  They just measure the speed of light at their location.  And they measure the length of a second without measuring the speed of light at the same location.
> 
> Ed

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#408634 — Re: Silver mirror

FromEd Lake <detect@newsguy.com>
Date2017-02-09 09:41 -0800
SubjectRe: Silver mirror
Message-ID<bd2ff0c2-5060-470b-a3a7-9c2cf1f748be@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#408630
On Thursday, February 9, 2017 at 11:23:54 AM UTC-6, Ed Lake wrote:
> Date 	Author 	        Method 	                Result(km/s)	Error
> 1676 	Olaus Roemer 	Jupiter's satellites 	214,000 	
> 1726 	James Bradley 	Stellar Aberration 	301,000 	
> 1849 	Armand Fizeau 	Toothed Wheel 	315,000 	
> 1862 	Leon Foucault 	Rotating Mirror 	298,000 	+-500
> 1879 	Albert Michelson 	Rotating Mirror 	299,910 	+-50
> 1907 	Rosa, Dorsay 	Electromagnetic constants 	299,788 	+-30
> 1926 	Albert Michelson 	Rotating Mirror 	299,796 	+-4
> 1947 	Essen, Gorden-Smith 	Cavity Resonator 	299,792 	+-3
> 1958 	K. D. Froome 	Radio Interferometer 	299,792.5 	+-0.1
> 1973 	Evanson et al 	Lasers 	                299,792.4574 	+-0.001
> 1983 		Adopted Value 	                299,792.458 	
> 
> Since 1879, the only way we have been measuring the speed of light is in a lab using equipment that emits and measures the light.
> 
> We cannot precisely measure light coming from some distant star.  For all we know, light from every star in the night sky could be coming to us at a slightly different rate.
> 
> We KNOW the speed of light in a vacuum is NOT a universal constant because we can easily detect differences in the speed of light between one lab and another.  For some unknown reason, no one has bothered to do so.
> 
> If the speed of light is measured at 299,792,458 meters per SECOND at the NIST labs in mile-high Boulder, Colorado, and if it is also measured at 299,792,458 meters per SECOND at some lab near sea level, we know from experiments that the LENGTH OF A SECOND is different at those two altitudes, so THE SPEED OF LIGHT MUST ALSO BE DIFFERENT.  
> 
> All that is needed is to compare BOTH the speed of light AND the length of a second at two such locations.  For some reason, no one has ever done this and told anyone about it.  They just measure the speed of light at their location.  And they measure the length of a second without measuring the speed of light at the same location.
> 
> Ed

I'm getting all kinds of problems on this thread which appear to be due to its length.  So, I used the above post to start a new thread titled "Measuring Time and Light."  Please post any comments there.

Ed

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#408852 — Re: Silver mirror

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2017-02-11 15:38 -0600
SubjectRe: Silver mirror
Message-ID<o7o07m$175u$2@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#408630
On 2/9/2017 11:23 AM, Ed Lake wrote:
> Date 	Author 	        Method 	                Result(km/s)	Error
> 1676 	Olaus Roemer 	Jupiter's satellites 	214,000 	
> 1726 	James Bradley 	Stellar Aberration 	301,000 	
> 1849 	Armand Fizeau 	Toothed Wheel 	315,000 	
> 1862 	Leon Foucault 	Rotating Mirror 	298,000 	+-500
> 1879 	Albert Michelson 	Rotating Mirror 	299,910 	+-50
> 1907 	Rosa, Dorsay 	Electromagnetic constants 	299,788 	+-30
> 1926 	Albert Michelson 	Rotating Mirror 	299,796 	+-4
> 1947 	Essen, Gorden-Smith 	Cavity Resonator 	299,792 	+-3
> 1958 	K. D. Froome 	Radio Interferometer 	299,792.5 	+-0.1
> 1973 	Evanson et al 	Lasers 	                299,792.4574 	+-0.001
> 1983 		Adopted Value 	                299,792.458 	
>
> Since 1879, the only way we have been measuring the speed of light is in a lab using
> equipment that emits and measures the light.

Your list is not very good.
The list you have only lists the experiments that have improved the 
accuracy since the last measurement. But there have been MANY 
measurements in the 20th and 21st century of light from distant sources 
that are SUFFICIENTLY precise to distinguish between c and c+v. That is 
the list you did not look for.

Here is a list of interest. This is a list of measurements expressed as 
a limit on photon mass. As you may know, there is a relationship between 
the limit on the photon mass and the knowledge of the speed of light 
found in that measurement.
http://pdg.lbl.gov/2016/listings/rpp2016-list-photon.pdf
You'll notice that many of those papers (which don't appear in your list 
above) are from recent astronomical observations.

And even THIS list isn't at all comprehensive.

What I'm telling you is that your skill in mining the experimental 
results is rather poor. This may because of your choice of reading material.

>
> We cannot precisely measure light coming from some distant star.  For all we know,
> light from every star in the night sky could be coming to us at a slightly different rate.
>
> We KNOW the speed of light in a vacuum is NOT a universal constant because we can easily
> detect differences in the speed of light between one lab and another.
>  For some unknown reason, no one has bothered to do so.
>
> If the speed of light is measured at 299,792,458 meters per SECOND at the NIST labs in
> mile-high Boulder, Colorado, and if it is also measured at 299,792,458 meters per SECOND
> at some lab near sea level, we know from experiments that the LENGTH OF A SECOND is
> different at those two altitudes, so THE SPEED OF LIGHT MUST ALSO BE DIFFERENT.

No, you don't, because the length of the meter is also different. Basic 
element of relativity.


>
> All that is needed is to compare BOTH the speed of light AND the length of a second at
> two such locations.  For some reason, no one has ever done this and told anyone about it.
> They just measure the speed of light at their location.  And they measure the length of
> a second without measuring the speed of light at the same location.
>
> Ed
>


-- 
Odd Bodkin -- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#408667 — Re: Silver mirror

Frombenj <benj@nobody.net>
Date2017-02-09 17:23 -0500
SubjectRe: Silver mirror
Message-ID<589cebd5$0$17335$c3e8da3$dd9697d2@news.astraweb.com>
In reply to#408607
On 2/9/2017 10:42 AM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> On 2/9/2017 9:08 AM, Ed Lake wrote:
>> On Wednesday, February 8, 2017 at 4:02:44 PM UTC-6, tjrob137 wrote:
>>> On 2/8/17 2/8/17   2:30 PM, Ed Lake wrote:
>>>> There is NO evidence that light will slow down to compensate for the
>>>> speed of
>>>> an oncoming ship so that the ship will measure the oncoming light as
>>>> arriving
>>>> at c.
>>>
>>> You are wrong, when one replaces your "ship" with the earth, and
>>> realizes that
>>> this is not any sort of "slow down".
>>>
>>> The annual Doppler effect shows that the wavelength of light from
>>> distant
>>> astronomical objects varies as the earth orbits the sun, accurately
>>> matching the
>>> predictions of SR. The same holds for the frequencies of microwave
>>> signals from
>>> distant objects. Combining the two effects shows that the phase speed
>>> of light
>>> in vacuum is always c.
>>>
>>
>> I'm not sure exactly what you are talking about, but the Doppler
>> effect just shows
>> that either the emitting source or the detecting source is moving or
>> both are moving.
>> It says nothing about the actual speed of light.
>
> Nor does it have to. You can measure the speed of the light DIRECTLY.
>
>>
>> There is no way to measure the speed of light except for light that
>> you create yourself.
>
> FLAT WRONG. You are obviously unaware of the experimental methods.
>
>> Detecting a photon destroys the photon.  So, you cannot detect it at
>> two different locations.
>>
>
> If you have a CLUMP of photons traveling together, you sample some of
> them at the first location, and you sample some more at the next location.
>
> There is also angular aberration as a way of measuring the speed of light.
>
> There is also using the regularity of a body's orbit as a handle on the
> speed of light, which is how the speed of light from a distant
> astronomical body was first measured. You can look it up.
>
> There's a half-dozen other methods that you are ignorant of.
>
> Please consider the possibility that your limited imagination about how
> to do things is not a limitation of physicists.

But it certainly is a proven limitation of you, Boinker.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#408679 — Re: Silver mirror

FromTom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net>
Date2017-02-09 18:29 -0600
SubjectRe: Silver mirror
Message-ID<JbOdnacKDeT7lADFnZ2dnUU7_81j4p2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#408591
On 2/9/17 2/9/17   9:08 AM, Ed Lake wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 8, 2017 at 4:02:44 PM UTC-6, tjrob137 wrote:
>> On 2/8/17 2/8/17   2:30 PM, Ed Lake wrote:
>>> There is NO evidence that light will slow down to compensate for the
>>> speed of an oncoming ship so that the ship will measure the oncoming
>>> light as arriving at c.
>>
>> You are wrong, when one replaces your "ship" with the earth, and realizes
>> that this is not any sort of "slow down".
>>
>> The annual Doppler effect shows that the wavelength of light from distant
>> astronomical objects varies as the earth orbits the sun, accurately
>> matching the predictions of SR. The same holds for the frequencies of
>> microwave signals from distant objects. Combining the two effects shows
>> that the phase speed of light in vacuum is always c.
>>
>
> I'm not sure exactly what you are talking about,

Then you need to educate yourself.

> but the Doppler effect just
> shows that either the emitting source or the detecting source is moving or
> both are moving.  It says nothing about the actual speed of light.

But the COMBINATION of the two measurements _DOES_ measure how the phase speed 
of light varies, and the result is: no variation. That is, the 
wavelength*frequency of such a wave equals its phase speed. The COMBINATION of 
the annual Doppler effect measurements shows that the vacuum speed of light is 
c, to an accuracy much better than the orbital speed of the earth.

> There is no way to measure the speed of light except for light that you
> create yourself.

Not true. Why do you just make stuff up and pretend it is true?

> Detecting a photon destroys the photon.  So, you cannot
> detect it at two different locations.

Yes. But a light pulse consists of ZILLIONS of photons. You can measure a 
handful of them here, and another handful over there, and deduce the speed of 
the pulse from the measurements. You can do this for the pulses of light from a 
distant pulsar, and measure it speed here on earth. You can also measure the 
wavelength and frequency of a monochromatic light ray and calculate its phase speed.

> Clocks can be OBSERVED to run slow.

Not without a SIGNAL from the clock. And the observations you mention are 
INCAPABLE of distinguishing an effect on the signal from an effect on the clock. 
You ASSUME it is the clock that is affected, because that is how your personal 
fantasies behave. But your fantasies are based on your personal IGNORANCE, and 
your fantasies cannot account for ALL of the observed phenomena, or for how this 
is modeled in SR/GR.

> Anyone with two sufficiently precise
> atomic clocks can place them one above the other and OBSERVE that the lower
> clock RUNS SLOWER that the higher clock.

They are observing SIGNALS from the clocks, and the observation is really due to 
gravity's effect on the SIGNALS, not the clocks.

Tom Roberts

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


Page 12 of 32 — ← Prev page 1 … 10 11 [12] 13 14 … 32  Next page →

Back to top | Article view | sci.physics.relativity


csiph-web