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Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #396486 > unrolled thread

Michelson got his mirrors wrong

Started byPeter Riedt <riedt1@yahoo.co.uk>
First post2016-10-22 16:31 -0700
Last post2016-11-18 10:12 -0800
Articles 20 on this page of 296 — 26 participants

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Contents

  Michelson got his mirrors wrong Peter Riedt <riedt1@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-10-22 16:31 -0700
    Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-10-23 04:47 +0200
      Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-10-22 20:17 -0700
      Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Peter Riedt <riedt1@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-10-22 22:16 -0700
      Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-10-23 08:46 +0200
        Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-10-23 21:10 +0200
          Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-10-23 21:59 +0200
            Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-10-24 06:34 +0200
              Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-10-24 07:59 +0200
                Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-10-24 22:55 +0200
                  Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-10-25 08:23 +0200
                    Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-10-25 08:51 +0200
                    Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-10-25 08:54 +0200
                      Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-10-25 09:39 +0200
                        Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-10-25 09:50 +0200
                        Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-10-26 07:56 +0200
                          Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-10-30 19:41 +0100
                            Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-10-31 05:54 +0100
                              Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-10-31 07:03 +0100
                                Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-10-31 07:53 +0100
                                  Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-10-31 11:04 +0100
                                    Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-11-01 04:47 +0100
                                      Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-11-01 07:35 +0100
                                      Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-11-01 07:58 +0100
                                      Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-11-01 08:13 +0100
                                        Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-11-01 18:55 +0100
                                          Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-11-01 19:59 +0100
                                            Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-11-09 08:42 +0100
                                              Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong "David (Time Lord) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-11-12 19:37 -0800
                                              Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong "David (Time Lord) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-11-12 19:46 -0800
                                Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-10-31 22:08 +0100
                                  Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-10-31 22:49 +0100
                                    Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-10-31 22:57 +0100
                      Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-10-25 05:05 -0700
          Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Eric Baird <erkdemon@gmail.com> - 2016-10-31 16:42 -0700
            Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-11-01 01:40 +0100
              Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong brightontoyandmodelmuseum@gmail.com - 2016-11-07 13:26 -0800
                Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-11-07 13:33 -0800
                  Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Eric Baird <erkdemon@gmail.com> - 2016-11-07 15:59 -0800
                    Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-11-08 06:42 -0800
                      Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Eric Baird <erkdemon@gmail.com> - 2016-11-14 04:17 -0800
                Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-11-07 22:35 +0100
                  Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-11-07 13:39 -0800
                  Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Eric Baird <erkdemon@gmail.com> - 2016-11-07 17:06 -0800
                    Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-11-08 08:19 +0100
                      Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Eric Baird <erkdemon@gmail.com> - 2016-11-12 19:23 -0800
                Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2016-11-07 16:40 -0800
                  Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-11-12 22:03 -0800
                  Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-11-12 22:08 -0800
                  Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Eric Baird <erkdemon@gmail.com> - 2016-11-14 04:51 -0800
                    Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Eric Baird <erkdemon@gmail.com> - 2016-11-14 05:26 -0800
            Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-11-01 04:33 +0100
              Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-11-01 07:23 +0100
                Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-11-01 19:11 +0100
                  Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-11-01 20:03 +0100
                    Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Nick <nick@nick.nick> - 2016-11-02 15:14 +0000
                      Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-11-02 22:05 +0100
                        Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-11-03 08:38 +0100
                          Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-11-04 04:40 +0100
                            Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-11-04 10:27 +0100
                              Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-11-04 18:09 +0100
                          Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong alsor@interia.pl - 2016-11-08 10:54 -0800
                          Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Marion Vanriper <Marion@Vanriper.info> - 2016-11-26 10:58 +0000
                            Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-11-26 21:51 +0100
                            Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-11-26 21:53 +0100
                  Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong alsor@interia.pl - 2016-11-01 12:14 -0700
                    Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-11-14 06:42 +0100
    Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-10-22 20:16 -0700
    Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-10-22 21:03 -0700
      Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Peter Riedt <riedt1@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-10-22 22:14 -0700
        Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-10-23 03:18 -0700
          Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2016-10-23 12:33 +0200
          Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2016-10-23 16:00 +0200
            Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-10-23 07:18 -0700
              Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-10-23 07:58 -0700
                Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2016-10-23 21:54 +0200
                  Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong alsor@interia.pl - 2016-10-23 13:46 -0700
                  Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-10-23 15:10 -0700
                  Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-10-23 15:16 -0700
                    Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong alsor@interia.pl - 2016-10-23 16:08 -0700
                    Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Peter Riedt <riedt1@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-10-23 18:13 -0700
                    Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-10-23 20:37 -0700
                      Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2016-10-24 14:45 +0200
                        Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-10-24 06:55 -0700
                        Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Peter Riedt <riedt1@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-10-24 16:43 -0700
                          Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-10-24 19:34 -0700
                          Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2016-10-25 14:31 +0200
                            Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-10-25 06:49 -0700
                              Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-10-25 07:58 -0700
                  Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Eric Baird <erkdemon@gmail.com> - 2016-10-31 17:00 -0700
          Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Peter Riedt <riedt1@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-10-23 17:07 -0700
          Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Peter Riedt <riedt1@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-10-23 20:21 -0700
          Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Peter Riedt <riedt1@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-10-24 00:03 -0700
      Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Peter Riedt <riedt1@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-10-22 23:48 -0700
        Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-10-24 08:04 -0500
      Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong "David (Time Lord) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-10-28 06:21 -0700
        Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong "David (Time Lord) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-10-28 06:37 -0700
          Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong "David (Time Lord) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-10-28 07:07 -0700
            Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong "David (Time Lord) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-10-28 07:24 -0700
              Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong "David (Time Lord) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-10-28 07:35 -0700
              Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong "David (Time Lord) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-10-28 07:42 -0700
              Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong "David (Time Lord) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-10-28 07:43 -0700
              Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong "David (Time Lord) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-10-28 08:10 -0700
        Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-10-29 09:32 +0200
          Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-10-29 09:33 +0200
            Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong "David (Time Lord) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-10-29 07:47 -0700
              Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong "David (Time Lord) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-10-29 07:55 -0700
                Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong "David (Time Lord) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-10-29 11:14 -0700
                  Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong "David (Time Lord) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-10-29 13:14 -0700
                    Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong "David (Time Lord) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-10-29 13:17 -0700
              Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-11-03 06:54 +0100
                Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong "David (Time Lord) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-11-03 21:01 -0700
                  Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-11-04 18:23 +0100
    Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-10-23 10:31 +0200
      Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Peter Riedt <riedt1@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-10-23 01:52 -0700
        Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-10-23 02:08 -0700
        Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-10-23 11:24 +0200
    Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@hotspam.not> - 2016-10-23 11:59 +0200
      Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Peter Riedt <riedt1@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-10-23 16:48 -0700
        Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-10-23 18:38 -0700
    Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong alsor@interia.pl - 2016-10-23 11:00 -0700
    Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-10-24 11:42 +1100
      Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Peter Riedt <riedt1@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-10-23 18:06 -0700
        Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-10-23 18:38 -0700
        Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-10-24 12:46 +1100
          Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Peter Riedt <riedt1@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-10-23 20:00 -0700
            Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-10-24 14:24 +1100
              Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Peter Riedt <riedt1@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-10-23 22:12 -0700
                Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-10-23 22:34 -0700
                Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-10-24 08:02 +0200
                  Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Peter Riedt <riedt1@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-10-23 23:35 -0700
                    Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-10-24 08:42 +0200
                      Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Peter Riedt <riedt1@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-10-23 23:48 -0700
                        Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-10-24 08:53 +0200
                          Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Peter Riedt <riedt1@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-10-24 00:08 -0700
                            Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-10-24 11:08 +0200
                              Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Peter Riedt <riedt1@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-10-24 03:17 -0700
                                Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-10-24 13:09 +0200
                                Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-10-24 04:13 -0700
                                  Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Peter Riedt <riedt1@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-10-24 16:52 -0700
                                Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-10-24 04:55 -0700
                                  Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Peter Riedt <riedt1@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-10-24 16:48 -0700
                                    Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-10-24 19:41 -0700
                                      Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Peter Riedt <riedt1@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-10-24 22:04 -0700
                                        Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-10-24 23:37 -0700
                                          Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Peter Riedt <riedt1@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-10-24 23:45 -0700
                                          Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Peter Riedt <riedt1@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-10-24 23:47 -0700
                                            Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-10-25 04:50 -0700
                                            Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-10-27 09:55 -0500
                                              Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Peter Riedt <riedt1@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-10-27 17:16 -0700
                                                Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-10-28 09:54 -0500
                            Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-10-24 08:39 -0500
                        Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-10-24 08:38 -0500
                    Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-10-24 08:36 -0500
                      Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Peter Riedt <riedt1@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-10-24 16:29 -0700
                        Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-10-25 08:25 +0200
                          Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Peter Riedt <riedt1@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-10-24 23:41 -0700
                            Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2016-10-25 08:57 +0200
                            Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-10-27 09:55 -0500
                              Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-10-31 06:28 +0100
                                Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-10-31 08:35 -0500
                                  Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Peter Riedt <riedt1@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-10-31 16:43 -0700
                                    Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-11-07 15:19 -0600
                        Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-10-27 09:55 -0500
                Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-10-24 23:13 +1100
                  Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Peter Riedt <riedt1@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-10-24 16:46 -0700
                Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-10-24 08:27 -0500
                  Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Peter Riedt <riedt1@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-10-24 16:30 -0700
                    Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-10-27 09:55 -0500
                      Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-11-01 05:06 +0100
                        Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Peter Riedt <riedt1@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-10-31 22:53 -0700
                          Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-11-01 11:36 -0700
                            Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-11-01 23:16 +0100
                            Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Peter Riedt <riedt1@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-11-01 16:43 -0700
                              Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-11-01 17:03 -0700
                                Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Peter Riedt <riedt1@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-11-01 20:25 -0700
                                  Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-11-01 20:30 -0700
                        Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-11-07 15:21 -0600
            Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-10-24 08:24 -0500
              Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Peter Riedt <riedt1@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-10-24 16:33 -0700
                Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-10-27 08:28 +0200
                  Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-10-27 05:50 -0700
                    Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Walter Bautista <wabau@outlookbay.org> - 2016-10-27 14:21 +0000
                    Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-10-27 23:16 +0200
                      Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-10-27 14:52 -0700
                        Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-10-28 04:54 +0200
                          Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-10-27 20:13 -0700
                            Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-10-30 06:55 +0100
                              Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-10-30 05:12 -0700
                                Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-11-16 07:26 +0100
                                  Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong "David (Time Lord) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-11-15 23:07 -0800
                                  Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-11-16 03:44 -0800
                                    Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-11-16 07:09 -0800
                                      Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-11-16 11:58 -0800
                                        Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-11-16 14:36 -0800
                                          Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-11-16 18:57 -0800
                                            Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-11-16 19:23 -0800
                                          Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong pnalsing@gmail.com - 2016-11-16 19:26 -0800
                                            Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-11-16 20:09 -0800
                                              Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-11-16 20:25 -0800
                                            Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-11-16 20:10 -0800
                                              Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-11-17 04:43 -0800
                                                Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-11-17 06:21 -0800
                                                  Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-11-17 06:57 -0800
                                                    Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-11-17 07:03 -0800
                                                      Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-11-17 07:45 -0800
                                            Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong "David (Time Lord) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-11-16 20:26 -0800
                                            Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-11-17 08:45 -0600
                                              Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong "David (Time Lord) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-11-17 12:28 -0800
                                                Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong "David (Time Lord) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-11-17 14:52 -0800
                                              Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2016-11-18 09:29 -0800
                                                Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong "David (Time Lord) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-11-18 10:01 -0800
                                                  Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong "David (Time Lord) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-11-18 10:40 -0800
                                                Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-11-19 09:47 -0600
                                                  Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong "David (Time Lord) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-11-19 07:52 -0800
                                                  Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-11-20 06:36 +0100
                                                Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Eric Baird <erkdemon@gmail.com> - 2016-11-20 17:38 -0800
                      Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong "David (Time Lord) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-10-30 06:30 -0700
                Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-10-27 09:55 -0500
                  Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Peter Riedt <riedt1@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-10-27 17:22 -0700
                    Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-10-27 18:50 -0700
                      Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Peter Riedt <riedt1@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-10-27 19:04 -0700
                      Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-10-27 19:39 -0700
                        Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Peter Riedt <riedt1@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-10-27 20:04 -0700
                          Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-10-27 20:19 -0700
                        Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-10-27 20:07 -0700
                          Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-10-27 21:14 -0700
                            Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-10-28 01:38 -0700
                              Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-10-28 07:45 -0700
                                Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-10-28 08:00 -0700
                                Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-10-28 08:03 -0700
                                  Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-10-28 08:12 -0700
                                    Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong "David (Time Lord) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-10-28 08:19 -0700
                                    Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-10-28 08:27 -0700
                                      Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-10-28 08:34 -0700
                                        Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-10-28 08:44 -0700
                                          Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-10-28 08:48 -0700
                                            Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-10-28 08:56 -0700
                                              Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-10-28 09:11 -0700
                                                Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-10-28 09:19 -0700
                                                  Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-10-28 09:43 -0700
                                                    Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-10-28 10:18 -0700
                                                      Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-10-28 11:27 -0700
                                                        Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-10-28 11:44 -0700
                                                          Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-10-28 11:56 -0700
                                                            Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-10-28 12:38 -0700
                                                              Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-10-28 15:31 -0700
                                                                Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-10-28 16:03 -0700
                                                                  Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-10-28 17:25 -0700
                                                              Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-10-28 15:39 -0700
                                                                Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-10-28 17:36 -0700
                                                                  Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-10-28 19:56 -0700
                                                                    Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-10-28 21:18 -0700
                                                                      Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-10-28 23:10 -0700
                                                                        Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-10-29 06:14 -0700
                                                                      Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-10-28 23:22 -0700
                                                                        Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong nero <oldogf@yahoo.it> - 2016-10-29 00:57 -0700
                                                                        Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-10-29 06:17 -0700
                                                                      Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-10-29 02:55 -0700
                                                                      Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-10-29 04:18 -0700
                                                                      Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-10-29 06:42 -0700
                                                                        Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-10-29 07:14 -0700
                                                    Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong "David (Time Lord) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-10-28 10:40 -0700
                                                      Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong "David (Time Lord) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-10-28 10:48 -0700
                                                      Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong "David (Time Lord) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-10-28 11:03 -0700
                                    Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong "David (Time Lord) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-10-28 08:54 -0700
                                  Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-10-28 11:30 -0700
                          Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Peter Riedt <riedt1@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-10-28 01:24 -0700
                            Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-10-28 01:41 -0700
                              Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Peter Riedt <riedt1@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-10-28 02:24 -0700
                                Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-10-28 03:55 -0700
                                  Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Peter Riedt <riedt1@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-10-28 11:23 -0700
                                  Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-10-28 11:33 -0700
                                    Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-10-28 15:20 -0700
                                      Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-10-28 15:27 -0700
                                        Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-10-28 15:46 -0700
                                          Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-10-28 17:27 -0700
                                            Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-10-28 20:08 -0700
                                              Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-10-28 21:13 -0700
                                                Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-10-28 23:04 -0700
                                                  Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2016-10-29 06:13 -0700
                          Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-10-28 01:28 -0700
                            Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-10-28 05:06 -0700
                        Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Helmut Wabnig <hwabnig@.- --- -.dotat> - 2016-10-28 15:10 +0200
                          Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-10-28 06:43 -0700
                      Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Kieth Staudt <KiethS@StaudtInstitute.info> - 2016-11-16 13:46 +0000
                    Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-10-30 16:12 -0500
        Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-10-24 08:21 -0500
    Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Peter Riedt <riedt1@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-10-23 20:01 -0700
    Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-10-24 07:41 -0500
    Michelson got his mirrors wrong "David (Time Lord) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-10-28 08:12 -0700
    Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong nero <oldogf@yahoo.it> - 2016-10-31 11:48 -0700
    Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2016-11-13 12:48 -0800
    Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2016-11-17 12:56 -0800
    Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2016-11-18 10:11 -0800
    Re: Michelson got his mirrors wrong numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2016-11-18 10:12 -0800

Page 4 of 15 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 … 15  Next page →


#397707

FromThomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
Date2016-11-04 18:09 +0100
Message-ID<e83tlnF70a2U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#397675
Am 04.11.2016 10:27, schrieb Poutnik:
>
> Hmm, we have a saying in Czech like
> "Do not say you can jump this height, unless you did".
>
> The posts below reminds me the saying it very much.
>
> I am afraid you are fooling yourself.


Actually about what?

I have written kind of 'book' as a hobby and posted a link to it.

See here:

https://docs.google.com/present/view?id=dd8jz2tx_3gfzvqgd6

It is technically a google.doc presentation of 155 pages.

The text was started as a collection of messages to the UseNet and to 
Web-based forums, which circled around a certain idea about how to 
connect GR to QM.

The concept is actually quite simple and goes like this:

The connection is assumed to exist, but unknown is where it is and how 
that might look like. Only the 'end-points ' are known (GR and QM).

So I assumed the imaginary mid-point between GR and QM and searched in 
the environment for something what might look like a path.

This 'mid-point' I found in a formula for quaternions, which describe a 
rotation.

(Not easy to explain, why I had chosen this.)

Then I tried to extend this 'path' as far as to QM on one side and to GR 
on the other. (Both GR and QM are not part of my project.)


Then I found quaternions not good enough and changed to bi-quaternions.

For reasons of simplicity I left the math part to the author Jonathan 
Scott, who wrote several articles about this kind of math:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/242079685_Complex_four-vectors_and_the_Dirac_equation


Then I have tried to convince a few people about the validity of the 
idea. But actually nobody paid any attention.

So I have changed my hobby a bit and do other stuff now. But my text is 
still existing and occasionally I like to promote it.


TH

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#398040

Fromalsor@interia.pl
Date2016-11-08 10:54 -0800
Message-ID<edb38fdf-9ec9-44fa-8c7e-d5fc9a703d66@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#397573
W dniu czwartek, 3 listopada 2016 08:38:04 UTC+1 użytkownik Poutnik napisał:
> Dne 02/11/2016 v 22:05 Thomas Heger napsal(a):
> > Am 02.11.2016 16:14, schrieb Nick:
> > 
> > 
> >>> The masterpiece of the verification will be prediction of the electron
> >>> magnetic momentum anomaly.
> > 
> > No. It does not work that way.
> 
> It does.
> As QED is SR aware QM, predicting the value with 11 digit accuracy,

11 digits of what?

Of the fresh stupid shit, of course.

i propose pi = 3.1415; good, no?
So, what provides the stupid SR-QM bombo combo?

pi = 2.718 = e; :)

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#399757

FromMarion Vanriper <Marion@Vanriper.info>
Date2016-11-26 10:58 +0000
Message-ID<o1bpsj$p2s$2@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#397573
Poutnik wrote:

>> So they believe, that simply every effect must possibly be calculated
>> from any other theory, if that is worth a penny.
>> 
> Well, most people at sci.physics.relativity manifest rather a kind of
> "anti-mathematism".

You just hate them because they are black.

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#399841

FromPoutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com>
Date2016-11-26 21:51 +0100
Message-ID<o1csii$dnv$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#399757
Dne 26/11/2016 v 11:58 Marion Vanriper napsal(a):
> Poutnik wrote:
> 
>>> So they believe, that simply every effect must possibly be calculated
>>> from any other theory, if that is worth a penny.
>>>
>> Well, most people at sci.physics.relativity manifest rather a kind of
>> "anti-mathematism".
> 
> You just hate them because they are black.
> 

What logic has lead you to such a funny conclusion ?

-- 
Poutnik ( The Pilgrim, Der Wanderer )

A wise man guards words he says,
as they say about him more,
than he says about the subject.

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#399842

FromPoutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com>
Date2016-11-26 21:53 +0100
Message-ID<o1cslc$dnv$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#399757
Dne 26/11/2016 v 11:58 Marion Vanriper napsal(a):
> Poutnik wrote:
> 
>>> So they believe, that simply every effect must possibly be calculated
>>> from any other theory, if that is worth a penny.
>>>
>> Well, most people at sci.physics.relativity manifest rather a kind of
>> "anti-mathematism".
> 
> You just hate them because they are black.
> 

Mathematics does not care about the skin colour.

-- 
Poutnik ( The Pilgrim, Der Wanderer )

A wise man guards words he says,
as they say about him more,
than he says about the subject.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#397419

Fromalsor@interia.pl
Date2016-11-01 12:14 -0700
Message-ID<2972984e-0f92-48a7-b87d-8f95bf996946@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#397413
W dniu wtorek, 1 listopada 2016 19:12:08 UTC+1 użytkownik Thomas Heger napisał:
> Am 01.11.2016 07:23, schrieb Poutnik:
> 
> >> You could imagine to 'fly parallel' with a beam at variable velocity.
> >>
> >> At the end you fly together with the beam and the waves stands still.
> >
> > As there is no rest frame for plane wave of light in vacuum,
> > how would you manage that ?
> >
> > ( putting for now aside your infinite energy
> > and the zero universe size in light propagation direction..)
> 
> 
> I think, that SRT is wrong. So I use a different version of relativity, 
> which is more like the one of Herman Minkowski.
> 
> Actually I have created my own version and have redefined certain 
> relations.
> 
> The term 'space' is conceptually similar to what is called 'past light 
> cone'. So 'space' is observer dependent.
> 
> This is a little unusual, but I think, this assumption is correct.
> 
> So: the observer does not move in space, but in time. He can move along 
> any timeline, (as far as he has sufficient means).
> 
> To every timeline belongs a different universe. And the observer can 
> actually reach different ones (at least in principle).
> 
> (Such different universes are not 'parallel universes', but are more 
> like 'universe around the corner'.)
> 
> To make the axis of time point sideways, we need certain means. One is 
> rapid motion.
> 
> But there is no need to assume, there are no other possibilities.
> 
> For now we assume, that we could turn the axis of time by cranking 
> something by hand.
> 
> (To fly together with a beam would be easy:
> 
> you just turn the axis of time by 45° and the ray is at rest. )
> 
> 
> TH

You are a fantasier...

Simply: the oryginal Lorentz Ether LET is a correct theory.
All the rest is an improvised stupidity, due to in the math incompetence.

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#398477

FromThomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
Date2016-11-14 06:42 +0100
Message-ID<e8t160F698aU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#397419
Am 01.11.2016 20:14, schrieb alsor@interia.pl:

>
> You are a fantasier...
>
> Simply: the oryginal Lorentz Ether LET is a correct theory.
> All the rest is an improvised stupidity, due to in the math incompetence.
>

Fantasy is not bad at all, if you want to do something in theoretical 
physics.

And actually I'm quite good in mathematics.

The problem for me is, that I'm not good enough in certain unusual 
realms, like quaternion multiplication and complex functions as would be 
necessary.

But I can draw and paint quite well. So I transferred the mathematical 
problems into a realm, where I have more experience and this the 
creation of illustrations.

To draw pictures is actually a valid method to express concepts.

Certainly that is not the final word, but a good start.

Most physicists say, that mathematics would be the language of physics.

But speaking in equations can cause serious problems, since physics is a 
science about nature. So you need to express somehow, what natural 
phenomenon your equation should represent.

For this you need words and to find such words, you need to understand, 
how this natural system functions. And math can't tell you that.

Essentially an equation in physics is a quantitative description of an 
assumed relation in nature. But without a description you can't use the 
equation.

I would make an illustration first, which shows in symbolic form, what 
is the subject of that particular study. Then a discussion should 
follow, where the meaning of the used terms and symbols is explained. 
Also necessary is an explanation, how the author came to his conclusions 
and what those actually are.

And finally he may derive a quantitative description of the observed 
phenomenon.


TH

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#396493

From"Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net>
Date2016-10-22 20:16 -0700
Message-ID<65c33b2a-c4b0-4cc6-b8e9-555ecc7d1274@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#396486
On Saturday, October 22, 2016 at 4:31:18 PM UTC-7, Peter Riedt wrote:
> Michelson got his mirrors wrong
> 
> In the supplement to his 1887 paper (On the Relative Motion of the Earth and the Luminiferous Ether) Michelson stated: "This is founded on the fact that reflection from surfaces in motion varies from the ordinary laws of reflection".
> 
> He then explained his different views on reflection from surfaces in motion in the rest of the supplement with formulas and diagrams and added suggestions how the luminiferous aether could be detected.
> 
> However, every mirror, not only the mirrors of his interferometer apparatus, partakes in the two motions of the earth; rotation and orbit around the sun. The laws of reflection have been established under these circumstances and are the same for every mirror on earth and regardless of their alignment with East, West, North and South and every compass point in between.
> 

In a frame co=moving with the mirror, the angle of reflection is equal to the angle of incidence.
In a frame in motion wrt. the mirror, the angle of reflection may or may not be equal to the angle of incidence, depending on the angle between the plane of the mirror and its direction of motion. There are some very good papers on the subject but you are too much of an imbecile to read them, let alone to understand the,



>  Lorentz' gamma formula is fictitious/untrue/conjured etc and does not apply and the adoption of his formula by SR must be considered to be without foundation.

No need to keep confirming you are  acretin, you convinced everybody. 

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#396497

FromProkaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com>
Date2016-10-22 21:03 -0700
Message-ID<a7c36dd5-b70f-4f94-94df-43fb679f654e@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#396486
On Saturday, October 22, 2016 at 6:31:18 PM UTC-5, Peter Riedt wrote:
> Michelson got his mirrors wrong
> 
> In the supplement to his 1887 paper (On the Relative Motion of the Earth and the Luminiferous Ether) Michelson stated: "This is founded on the fact that reflection from surfaces in motion varies from the ordinary laws of reflection".
> 
> He then explained his different views on reflection from surfaces in motion in the rest of the supplement with formulas and diagrams and added suggestions how the luminiferous aether could be detected.
> 
> However, every mirror, not only the mirrors of his interferometer apparatus, partakes in the two motions of the earth; rotation and orbit around the sun. The laws of reflection have been established under these circumstances and are the same for every mirror on earth and regardless of their alignment with East, West, North and South and every compass point in between.
> 
> The mirrors at the end of the parallel and perpendicular arm of the interferometer both reflect the light rays at a zero angle. Their light paths are up the parallel arm and straight back and up the perpendicular arm and straight back. They meet at the same time after they travelled an equal distance of 11m and at the same speed whatever it is.
> 
> No difference of the arms existed to detect the aether and no contraction existed or was necessary to explain the null result. Lorentz' gamma formula is fictitious/untrue/conjured etc and does not apply and the adoption of his formula by SR must be considered to be without foundation.

...and so you blithely discard the Principle of Least Action, which is an even
more fundamental principle than special relativity itself, since PLA would hold
regardless whether the universe is Lorentzian, Galilean, or Euclidean at
small scales.

If you discard the Principle of Least Action, you can no longer rely on a
stretched string following a straight line (in the absence of gravity). 

***THAT*** is how fundamental the principle is that you choose to ignore.

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#396499

FromPeter Riedt <riedt1@yahoo.co.uk>
Date2016-10-22 22:14 -0700
Message-ID<bc433840-504b-4e31-ace0-daa972856512@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#396497
On Sunday, October 23, 2016 at 12:03:02 PM UTC+8, Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog wrote:
> On Saturday, October 22, 2016 at 6:31:18 PM UTC-5, Peter Riedt wrote:
> > Michelson got his mirrors wrong
> > 
> > In the supplement to his 1887 paper (On the Relative Motion of the Earth and the Luminiferous Ether) Michelson stated: "This is founded on the fact that reflection from surfaces in motion varies from the ordinary laws of reflection".
> > 
> > He then explained his different views on reflection from surfaces in motion in the rest of the supplement with formulas and diagrams and added suggestions how the luminiferous aether could be detected.
> > 
> > However, every mirror, not only the mirrors of his interferometer apparatus, partakes in the two motions of the earth; rotation and orbit around the sun. The laws of reflection have been established under these circumstances and are the same for every mirror on earth and regardless of their alignment with East, West, North and South and every compass point in between.
> > 
> > The mirrors at the end of the parallel and perpendicular arm of the interferometer both reflect the light rays at a zero angle. Their light paths are up the parallel arm and straight back and up the perpendicular arm and straight back. They meet at the same time after they travelled an equal distance of 11m and at the same speed whatever it is.
> > 
> > No difference of the arms existed to detect the aether and no contraction existed or was necessary to explain the null result. Lorentz' gamma formula is fictitious/untrue/conjured etc and does not apply and the adoption of his formula by SR must be considered to be without foundation.
> 
> ...and so you blithely discard the Principle of Least Action, which is an even
> more fundamental principle than special relativity itself, since PLA would hold
> regardless whether the universe is Lorentzian, Galilean, or Euclidean at
> small scales.
> 
> If you discard the Principle of Least Action, you can no longer rely on a
> stretched string following a straight line (in the absence of gravity). 
> 
> ***THAT*** is how fundamental the principle is that you choose to ignore.

Michelson said mirrors in motion do not follow the laws of reflection. He was wrong because the laws of reflection were derived from mirrors that were moving just like his mirrors in MMX

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#396511

FromProkaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com>
Date2016-10-23 03:18 -0700
Message-ID<f9bfd428-da4e-4a49-ac0e-28356a7c02f7@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#396499
On Sunday, October 23, 2016 at 12:14:35 AM UTC-5, Peter Riedt wrote:
> On Sunday, October 23, 2016 at 12:03:02 PM UTC+8, Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog wrote:

> > ...and so you blithely discard the Principle of Least Action, which is an even
> > more fundamental principle than special relativity itself, since PLA would hold
> > regardless whether the universe is Lorentzian, Galilean, or Euclidean at
> > small scales.
> > 
> > If you discard the Principle of Least Action, you can no longer rely on a
> > stretched string following a straight line (in the absence of gravity). 
> > 
> > ***THAT*** is how fundamental the principle is that you choose to ignore.
> 
> Michelson said mirrors in motion do not follow the laws of reflection. He was wrong because the laws of reflection were derived from mirrors that were moving just like his mirrors in MMX

What Michelson meant is this:

If a plane parallel beam of light traveling from left to right strikes a 
*stationary* mirror set at 45° from the vertical, the light will be reflected at
an angle of 90° from the horizontal.

If, however, the 45° mirror is *in motion*, the beam of light will not be 
reflected at precisely 90°, but will reflect at an angle that can easily be
calculated using Huyghen's Principle and the superposition of waves, which in 
essence represents a specialized statement of the Principle of Least Action.

Please examine the following illustration:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8XIf0XcrpOccmJBUDVRcUxod1k

The plane wave illustrated in red travels from left to right at speed c in the 
direction shown by the red arrow. At time 0, it strikes the lower corner of a 
45° diagonal mirror at point O. From the lower corner of the mirror, spherical
wavelets of light expand in all directions at a speed of c (Huyghen's principle).

The 45° mirror is moving to the right at speed v.

After time t, the plane wave catches up with the top corner of the mirror at
point A. During this time, the wavelet of light radiating from point O has 
been expanding at a speed of c as illustrated by the blue circle. Between time 0
and time t, the plane wave has been striking the mirror at intermediate points,
also emitting wavelets of light (not illustrated). 

By superposition of waves, the sum of all these wavelets emitted from the mirror
along the line from point O to point A form a plane wave whose "front" follows 
the tangent line which I have drawn from point A to point P. As illustrated, the
direction of the reflected ray is *not* precisely 90°.

The direction of the reflected ray is *as if* it were being reflected from a
stationary mirror oriented along the dotted line OA.

Angle ∠BOA is easily calculated.
AB = ct - vt
tan(∠BOA) = AB/ct = (ct - vt)/ct = 1 - v/c
∠BOA = arctan(1 - v/c)

The direction of the reflected wave ∠BOP is twice ∠BOA.

We can make a table:

v            ∠BOP
--------------------
0.0000 c     90°
0.0001 c     89.9943°   (speed of the Earth in its orbit)
0.1000 c     83.9744°

SUMMARY:
At 0.0001 c, light reflects from the beam splitter in the MMX at an angle of
89.9943°, and bounces off the lateral mirror at a reflected angle equal to the
incident angle.

Your diagram is wrong, Peter.

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#396512

FromMaciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl>
Date2016-10-23 12:33 +0200
Message-ID<nui3ml$agh$1@node2.news.atman.pl>
In reply to#396511

Użytkownik "Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog"  napisał w wiadomości grup 
dyskusyjnych:f9bfd428-da4e-4a49-ac0e-28356a7c02f7@googlegroups.com...

> Michelson said mirrors in motion do not follow the laws of reflection. He 
> was wrong because the laws of reflection were derived from mirrors that 
> were moving just like his mirrors in MMX

|What Michelson meant is this:

And you know what he meant, because you are a
relativistic moron and you know.

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#396525

From"Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no>
Date2016-10-23 16:00 +0200
Message-ID<nuifq2$dd5$1@news.albasani.net>
In reply to#396511
On 23.10.2016 12:18, Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog wrote:
> On Sunday, October 23, 2016 at 12:14:35 AM UTC-5, Peter Riedt wrote:
>> On Sunday, October 23, 2016 at 12:03:02 PM UTC+8, Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog wrote:
>
>>> ...and so you blithely discard the Principle of Least Action, which is an even
>>> more fundamental principle than special relativity itself, since PLA would hold
>>> regardless whether the universe is Lorentzian, Galilean, or Euclidean at
>>> small scales.
>>>
>>> If you discard the Principle of Least Action, you can no longer rely on a
>>> stretched string following a straight line (in the absence of gravity).
>>>
>>> ***THAT*** is how fundamental the principle is that you choose to ignore.
>>
>> Michelson said mirrors in motion do not follow the laws of reflection. He was wrong because the laws of reflection were derived from mirrors that were moving just like his mirrors in MMX
>
> What Michelson meant is this:
>
> If a plane parallel beam of light traveling from left to right strikes a
> *stationary* mirror set at 45° from the vertical, the light will be reflected at
> an angle of 90° from the horizontal.
>
> If, however, the 45° mirror is *in motion*, the beam of light will not be
> reflected at precisely 90°, but will reflect at an angle that can easily be
> calculated using Huyghen's Principle and the superposition of waves, which in
> essence represents a specialized statement of the Principle of Least Action.
>
> Please examine the following illustration:
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8XIf0XcrpOccmJBUDVRcUxod1k
>
> The plane wave illustrated in red travels from left to right at speed c in the
> direction shown by the red arrow. At time 0, it strikes the lower corner of a
> 45° diagonal mirror at point O. From the lower corner of the mirror, spherical
> wavelets of light expand in all directions at a speed of c (Huyghen's principle).
>
> The 45° mirror is moving to the right at speed v.
>
> After time t, the plane wave catches up with the top corner of the mirror at
> point A. During this time, the wavelet of light radiating from point O has
> been expanding at a speed of c as illustrated by the blue circle. Between time 0
> and time t, the plane wave has been striking the mirror at intermediate points,
> also emitting wavelets of light (not illustrated).
>
> By superposition of waves, the sum of all these wavelets emitted from the mirror
> along the line from point O to point A form a plane wave whose "front" follows
> the tangent line which I have drawn from point A to point P. As illustrated, the
> direction of the reflected ray is *not* precisely 90°.
>
> The direction of the reflected ray is *as if* it were being reflected from a
> stationary mirror oriented along the dotted line OA.
>
> Angle ∠BOA is easily calculated.
> AB = ct - vt
> tan(∠BOA) = AB/ct = (ct - vt)/ct = 1 - v/c
> ∠BOA = arctan(1 - v/c)
>
> The direction of the reflected wave ∠BOP is twice ∠BOA.
>
> We can make a table:
>
> v            ∠BOP
> --------------------
> 0.0000 c     90°
> 0.0001 c     89.9943°   (speed of the Earth in its orbit)
> 0.1000 c     83.9744°
>
> SUMMARY:
> At 0.0001 c, light reflects from the beam splitter in the MMX at an angle of
> 89.9943°, and bounces off the lateral mirror at a reflected angle equal to the
> incident angle.
>
> Your diagram is wrong, Peter.

I am not convinced that your calculation is correct,
even if it may be a good approximation.
Your calculation seems reasonable, and I must admit
that I couldn't find any error in it.

I am pretty sure the below is correct, though.

The calculation is quite simple:

           . (t,0,ct) the coordinates of an arbitrary
           |          event on the reflected ray
           |
           |
  --------->/
"stationary frame" (ether frame)

We use the Galilean transform to transform
the coordinates of the event to the "moving frame"

               . (t,vt,ct)
              /
             /
            /
  --------->/  -> v
"moving frame"


Angle of reflected ray from horizontal: arctan(c/v)
Angle of reflected ray from vertical:   arctan(v/c)


This is the angle Michelson used in his paper:
https://paulba.no/paper/Michelson_1887.pdf

"The length of the other path is evidently 2Dsqrt(1+v^2/c^2)"

    /|    tan(a) = v/c
d /a|    cos(a) = 1/sqrt(1+v^2/c^2)
  /  |D
/---|    d = D/cos(a)



-- 
Paul

https://paulba.no/

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#396526

FromProkaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com>
Date2016-10-23 07:18 -0700
Message-ID<505058f5-25ad-47b7-bbdb-d0998a5cb803@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#396525
On Sunday, October 23, 2016 at 9:00:35 AM UTC-5, Paul B. Andersen wrote:
> On 23.10.2016 12:18, Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog wrote:

> > What Michelson meant is this:
> >
> > If a plane parallel beam of light traveling from left to right strikes a
> > *stationary* mirror set at 45° from the vertical, the light will be reflected at
> > an angle of 90° from the horizontal.
> >
> > If, however, the 45° mirror is *in motion*, the beam of light will not be
> > reflected at precisely 90°, but will reflect at an angle that can easily be
> > calculated using Huyghen's Principle and the superposition of waves, which in
> > essence represents a specialized statement of the Principle of Least Action.
> >
> > Please examine the following illustration:
> > https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8XIf0XcrpOccmJBUDVRcUxod1k
> >
> > The plane wave illustrated in red travels from left to right at speed c in the
> > direction shown by the red arrow. At time 0, it strikes the lower corner of a
> > 45° diagonal mirror at point O. From the lower corner of the mirror, spherical
> > wavelets of light expand in all directions at a speed of c (Huyghen's principle).
> >
> > The 45° mirror is moving to the right at speed v.
> >
> > After time t, the plane wave catches up with the top corner of the mirror at
> > point A. During this time, the wavelet of light radiating from point O has
> > been expanding at a speed of c as illustrated by the blue circle. Between time 0
> > and time t, the plane wave has been striking the mirror at intermediate points,
> > also emitting wavelets of light (not illustrated).
> >
> > By superposition of waves, the sum of all these wavelets emitted from the mirror
> > along the line from point O to point A form a plane wave whose "front" follows
> > the tangent line which I have drawn from point A to point P. As illustrated, the
> > direction of the reflected ray is *not* precisely 90°.
> >
> > The direction of the reflected ray is *as if* it were being reflected from a
> > stationary mirror oriented along the dotted line OA.
> >
> > Angle ∠BOA is easily calculated.
> > AB = ct - vt
> > tan(∠BOA) = AB/ct = (ct - vt)/ct = 1 - v/c
> > ∠BOA = arctan(1 - v/c)
> >
> > The direction of the reflected wave ∠BOP is twice ∠BOA.
> >
> > We can make a table:
> >
> > v            ∠BOP
> > --------------------
> > 0.0000 c     90°
> > 0.0001 c     89.9943°   (speed of the Earth in its orbit)
> > 0.1000 c     83.9744°
> >
> > SUMMARY:
> > At 0.0001 c, light reflects from the beam splitter in the MMX at an angle of
> > 89.9943°, and bounces off the lateral mirror at a reflected angle equal to the
> > incident angle.
> >
> > Your diagram is wrong, Peter.
> 
> I am not convinced that your calculation is correct,
> even if it may be a good approximation.
> Your calculation seems reasonable, and I must admit
> that I couldn't find any error in it.
> 
> I am pretty sure the below is correct, though.
> 
> The calculation is quite simple:
> 
>            . (t,0,ct) the coordinates of an arbitrary
>            |          event on the reflected ray
>            |
>            |
>   --------->/
> "stationary frame" (ether frame)
> 
> We use the Galilean transform to transform
> the coordinates of the event to the "moving frame"
> 
>                . (t,vt,ct)
>               /
>              /
>             /
>   --------->/  -> v
> "moving frame"
> 
> 
> Angle of reflected ray from horizontal: arctan(c/v)
> Angle of reflected ray from vertical:   arctan(v/c)
> 
> 
> This is the angle Michelson used in his paper:
> https://paulba.no/paper/Michelson_1887.pdf
> 
> "The length of the other path is evidently 2Dsqrt(1+v^2/c^2)"
> 
>     /|    tan(a) = v/c
> d /a|    cos(a) = 1/sqrt(1+v^2/c^2)
>   /  |D
> /---|    d = D/cos(a)

You are correct, I intentionally left out something since I didn't want to
overwhelm Peter, and it wasn't relevant to my basic argument, which was that
the beam does not reflect off a moving 45° mirror at exactly a 90° angle.

If you carefully work out the horizontal distances, you will see that my
calculated angle for the reflected transverse beam very slightly overshoots the
center of the beam splitter. The calculated angle is too shallow by a very small
amount.

What I left out was length contraction, which results in the mirror being 
tilted slightly steeper than the angle that I presented in my naive calculation.
When you take that into account, the reflected transverse beam strikes the
beam splitter dead center, exactly as predicted by SR.

:-)








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#396528

FromProkaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com>
Date2016-10-23 07:58 -0700
Message-ID<50382869-d757-4025-9253-a0e95faa59ba@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#396526
On Sunday, October 23, 2016 at 9:18:53 AM UTC-5, Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog wrote:

> You are correct, I intentionally left out something since I didn't want to
> overwhelm Peter, and it wasn't relevant to my basic argument, which was that
> the beam does not reflect off a moving 45° mirror at exactly a 90° angle.
> 
> If you carefully work out the horizontal distances, you will see that my
> calculated angle for the reflected transverse beam very slightly overshoots the
> center of the beam splitter. The calculated angle is too shallow by a very small
> amount.
> 
> What I left out was length contraction, which results in the mirror being 
> tilted slightly steeper than the angle that I presented in my naive calculation.
> When you take that into account, the reflected transverse beam strikes the
> beam splitter dead center, exactly as predicted by SR.
> 
> :-)

Discussion of this point goes back a long ways.

To the best of my knowledge, the first *published* discussion of this was in a 
paper by W.M. Hicks (1902). Philosophical Magazine sixth series, vol III, p 9
https://archive.org/stream/londonedinburgh631902lond#page/10/mode/2up

Morley and Miller discussed this issue in Phil. Mag. sixth series, vol 9, p 669
https://archive.org/stream/londonedinburgh691905lond#page/668/mode/2up

The first fully relativistic treatment of this issue appears to have been by 
Harry Bateman: 
https://archive.org/stream/londonedinburg6181909lond#page/890/mode/2up

A modern treatment is given by 
Schumacher, Richard A. (1994). American Journal of Physics. 62: 609. 

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#396550

From"Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no>
Date2016-10-23 21:54 +0200
Message-ID<nuj4hk$6o3$1@news.albasani.net>
In reply to#396528
On 23.10.2016 16:58, Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog wrote:
> On Sunday, October 23, 2016 at 9:18:53 AM UTC-5, Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog wrote:
>
>> You are correct, I intentionally left out something since I didn't want to
>> overwhelm Peter, and it wasn't relevant to my basic argument, which was that
>> the beam does not reflect off a moving 45° mirror at exactly a 90° angle.
>>
>> If you carefully work out the horizontal distances, you will see that my
>> calculated angle for the reflected transverse beam very slightly overshoots the
>> center of the beam splitter. The calculated angle is too shallow by a very small
>> amount.
>>
>> What I left out was length contraction, which results in the mirror being
>> tilted slightly steeper than the angle that I presented in my naive calculation.
>> When you take that into account, the reflected transverse beam strikes the
>> beam splitter dead center, exactly as predicted by SR.
>>
>> :-)
>
> Discussion of this point goes back a long ways.
>
> To the best of my knowledge, the first *published* discussion of this was in a
> paper by W.M. Hicks (1902). Philosophical Magazine sixth series, vol III, p 9
> https://archive.org/stream/londonedinburgh631902lond#page/10/mode/2up
>
> Morley and Miller discussed this issue in Phil. Mag. sixth series, vol 9, p 669
> https://archive.org/stream/londonedinburgh691905lond#page/668/mode/2up
>
> The first fully relativistic treatment of this issue appears to have been by
> Harry Bateman:
> https://archive.org/stream/londonedinburg6181909lond#page/890/mode/2up
>
> A modern treatment is given by
> Schumacher, Richard A. (1994). American Journal of Physics. 62: 609.
>
Interesting.

But the phenomenon is simply aberration, and the general expression is:

   y
   |   /
   |  /
   | /
   |/ a
------------------> x
"stationary frame"

   y'
   |   /
   |  /
   | /
   |/ a'
------------------> x'
"moving frame"

SR:       cos(a') = (cos(a)-v/c)/(1-(v/c)cos(a))

Galilean: tan(a') = sin(a)/(cos(a)+v/c)

a = pi/2 yields:

SR:
  a' = arccos(v/c)
  v = 0.0001c a' = 89.99427042204 degrees
  v = 0.1c    a' = 84.261         degrees

Galilean: (Michelson)
a' = arctan(c/v)
v = 0.0001c a' = 89.99427042207 degrees
v = 0.1c    a' = 84.289         degrees

Note that for v = the orbital speed of the Earth
it is not practically possible to discriminate between
the aberration predicted by SR and Galilean relativity.

This is also the case for stellar aberration.

-- 
Paul

https://paulba.no/

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#396552

Fromalsor@interia.pl
Date2016-10-23 13:46 -0700
Message-ID<a576d978-27c2-4330-8874-6461cc414e83@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#396550
W dniu niedziela, 23 października 2016 21:54:29 UTC+2 użytkownik Paul B. Andersen

> But the phenomenon is simply aberration, and the general expression is:
> 
>    y
>    |   /
>    |  /
>    | /
>    |/ a
> ------------------> x
> "stationary frame"
> 
>    y'
>    |   /
>    |  /
>    | /
>    |/ a'
> ------------------> x'
> "moving frame"
> 
> SR:       cos(a') = (cos(a)-v/c)/(1-(v/c)cos(a))
> 
> Galilean: tan(a') = sin(a)/(cos(a)+v/c)
>
> a = pi/2 yields:
> 
> SR:
>   a' = arccos(v/c)
>   v = 0.0001c a' = 89.99427042204 degrees
>   v = 0.1c    a' = 84.261         degrees
> 
> Galilean: (Michelson)
> a' = arctan(c/v)
> v = 0.0001c a' = 89.99427042207 degrees
> v = 0.1c    a' = 84.289         degrees
> 
> Note that for v = the orbital speed of the Earth
> it is not practically possible to discriminate between
> the aberration predicted by SR and Galilean relativity.
> 
> This is also the case for stellar aberration.

You are wrong.
The Galilean formula is just:
cos(a') = (cos(a)-v/c)/(1-(v/c)cos(a))

simply:
cosf = cx/c =>
cosf' = cx'/c' = ...

just because of the standard:
C' = C-V, this is just the galilean

using the standard geometry:
C(f) = (ccosf, csinf); V = (v,0);

then:
c'(f) = |C'(f)|, it's s speed of light along the line with an angle of f to the x axis.

but under the Lorentz's contraction the unit of longitudinal
distance is shorther k=gamma times;
so, finaly it's perfectly equal to:

c'(f) = |C'(f)| = k(c-vcosf);

and the: cx' = k(ccosf - v), of course;

thus:
cosf' = (ccosf - v) / (c-vcosf) = (cosf - v/c) / (1 - v/c cosf)

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#396561

FromProkaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com>
Date2016-10-23 15:10 -0700
Message-ID<989540f9-9cfa-48fc-9db1-3328998ebc14@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#396550
On Sunday, October 23, 2016 at 2:54:29 PM UTC-5, Paul B. Andersen wrote:
> On 23.10.2016 16:58, Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog wrote:

> Interesting.
> 
> But the phenomenon is simply aberration, and the general expression is:
> 
>    y
>    |   /
>    |  /
>    | /
>    |/ a
> ------------------> x
> "stationary frame"
> 
>    y'
>    |   /
>    |  /
>    | /
>    |/ a'
> ------------------> x'
> "moving frame"
> 
> SR:       cos(a') = (cos(a)-v/c)/(1-(v/c)cos(a))
> 
> Galilean: tan(a') = sin(a)/(cos(a)+v/c)
> 
> a = pi/2 yields:
> 
> SR:
>   a' = arccos(v/c)
>   v = 0.0001c a' = 89.99427042204 degrees
>   v = 0.1c    a' = 84.261         degrees
> 
> Galilean: (Michelson)
> a' = arctan(c/v)
> v = 0.0001c a' = 89.99427042207 degrees
> v = 0.1c    a' = 84.289         degrees
> 
> Note that for v = the orbital speed of the Earth
> it is not practically possible to discriminate between
> the aberration predicted by SR and Galilean relativity.
> 
> This is also the case for stellar aberration.

The whole point of the analyses that I cited is that a calculation of aberration 
on a beam emitted at right angles from the direction of motion yields different 
results than a calculation of the reflection angle from a moving mirror. They 
are not quite the same scenario, and the calculated angles are not quite the
same. Michelson's calculation using aberration formulas was very slightly off. 

In the non-relativistic calculation of reflection angles, both the transverse and 
longitudinal beams reflect at a slightly different angle from the beam splitter 
than the calculation made using the aberration formula. A non-relativistic 
calculation of reflection angles predicts that the longitudinal and transverse do 
not quite meet squarely at the beam splitter, and they diverge as they exit the
beam splitter by about 10e−8 radians. This of course is not what actually happens.

A relativistic calculation resolves the discrepancy.

The most accessible reference of the ones that I listed before was 
Schumacher, Richard A. (1994). "Special relativity and the Michelson–Morley 
    interferometer". American Journal of Physics. 62: 609
It is behind a paywall, so you'll have to visit your university library to get it.

Galilean calculation of abberation (Michelson): a' = arctan(c/v)
v           a'
--------------------------------------
0.0000 c    90°
0.0001 c    89.99427042206779° 
0.1000 c    84.28940686250036°         

Reflection angle calculated using Huyghen's law: a' = 2 arctan(1 - v/c)
v           a'
--------------------------------------
0.0000 c    90°
0.0001 c    89.99427013556024°
0.1000 c    83.97442499163332°

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#396562

FromProkaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com>
Date2016-10-23 15:16 -0700
Message-ID<6ef2350a-043b-4633-b803-ad9fed9c24ae@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#396550
(corrects typographical errors in deleted post)

On Sunday, October 23, 2016 at 2:54:29 PM UTC-5, Paul B. Andersen wrote:
> On 23.10.2016 16:58, Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog wrote:

> Interesting.
> 
> But the phenomenon is simply aberration, and the general expression is:
> 
>    y
>    |   /
>    |  /
>    | /
>    |/ a
> ------------------> x
> "stationary frame"
> 
>    y'
>    |   /
>    |  /
>    | /
>    |/ a'
> ------------------> x'
> "moving frame"
> 
> SR:       cos(a') = (cos(a)-v/c)/(1-(v/c)cos(a))
> 
> Galilean: tan(a') = sin(a)/(cos(a)+v/c)
> 
> a = pi/2 yields:
> 
> SR:
>   a' = arccos(v/c)
>   v = 0.0001c a' = 89.99427042204 degrees
>   v = 0.1c    a' = 84.261         degrees
> 
> Galilean: (Michelson)
> a' = arctan(c/v)
> v = 0.0001c a' = 89.99427042207 degrees
> v = 0.1c    a' = 84.289         degrees
> 
> Note that for v = the orbital speed of the Earth
> it is not practically possible to discriminate between
> the aberration predicted by SR and Galilean relativity.
> 
> This is also the case for stellar aberration.

The whole point of the analyses that I cited is that a calculation of aberration 
on a beam emitted at right angles from the direction of motion yields different 
results than a calculation of the reflection angle from a moving mirror. They 
are not quite the same scenario, and the calculated angles are not quite the
same. Michelson's calculation using aberration formulas was very slightly off. 

In the non-relativistic calculation of reflection angles, both the transverse and 
longitudinal beams reflect at a slightly different angle from the beam splitter 
than the calculation made using the aberration formula. A non-relativistic 
calculation of reflection angles predicts that the longitudinal and transverse 
beams do not quite meet squarely at the beam splitter, and they diverge as they 
exit the beam splitter by about 1e−8 radians. This of course is not what actually 
happens.

A relativistic calculation resolves the discrepancy.

The most accessible reference of the ones that I listed before was 
Schumacher, Richard A. (1994). "Special relativity and the Michelson–Morley 
    interferometer". American Journal of Physics. 62: 609
It is behind a paywall, so you'll have to visit your university library to get it.

Galilean calculation of abberation (Michelson): a' = arctan(c/v)
v           a'
--------------------------------------
0.0000 c    90°
0.0001 c    89.99427042206779° 
0.1000 c    84.28940686250036°         

Reflection angle calculated using Huyghen's law: a' = 2 arctan(1 - v/c)
v           a'
--------------------------------------
0.0000 c    90°
0.0001 c    89.99427013556024°
0.1000 c    83.97442499163332°





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#396570

Fromalsor@interia.pl
Date2016-10-23 16:08 -0700
Message-ID<91ec264d-2d59-42ba-90c4-a749b1664567@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#396562
W dniu poniedziałek, 24 października 2016 00:16:47 UTC+2 użytkownik Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog napisał:
> (corrects typographical errors in deleted post)
> 
> On Sunday, October 23, 2016 at 2:54:29 PM UTC-5, Paul B. Andersen wrote:
> > On 23.10.2016 16:58, Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog wrote:
> 
> > Interesting.
> > 
> > But the phenomenon is simply aberration, and the general expression is:
> > 
> >    y
> >    |   /
> >    |  /
> >    | /
> >    |/ a
> > ------------------> x
> > "stationary frame"
> > 
> >    y'
> >    |   /
> >    |  /
> >    | /
> >    |/ a'
> > ------------------> x'
> > "moving frame"
> > 
> > SR:       cos(a') = (cos(a)-v/c)/(1-(v/c)cos(a))
> > 
> > Galilean: tan(a') = sin(a)/(cos(a)+v/c)
> > 
> > a = pi/2 yields:
> > 
> > SR:
> >   a' = arccos(v/c)
> >   v = 0.0001c a' = 89.99427042204 degrees
> >   v = 0.1c    a' = 84.261         degrees
> > 
> > Galilean: (Michelson)
> > a' = arctan(c/v)
> > v = 0.0001c a' = 89.99427042207 degrees
> > v = 0.1c    a' = 84.289         degrees
> > 
> > Note that for v = the orbital speed of the Earth
> > it is not practically possible to discriminate between
> > the aberration predicted by SR and Galilean relativity.
> > 
> > This is also the case for stellar aberration.
> 
> The whole point of the analyses that I cited is that a calculation of aberration 
> on a beam emitted at right angles from the direction of motion yields different 
> results than a calculation of the reflection angle from a moving mirror. They 
> are not quite the same scenario, and the calculated angles are not quite the
> same. Michelson's calculation using aberration formulas was very slightly off. 
> 
> In the non-relativistic calculation of reflection angles, both the transverse and 
> longitudinal beams reflect at a slightly different angle from the beam splitter 
> than the calculation made using the aberration formula. A non-relativistic 
> calculation of reflection angles predicts that the longitudinal and transverse 
> beams do not quite meet squarely at the beam splitter, and they diverge as they 
> exit the beam splitter by about 1e−8 radians. This of course is not what actually 
> happens.
> 
> A relativistic calculation resolves the discrepancy.
> 
> The most accessible reference of the ones that I listed before was 
> Schumacher, Richard A. (1994). "Special relativity and the Michelson–Morley 
>     interferometer". American Journal of Physics. 62: 609
> It is behind a paywall, so you'll have to visit your university library to get it.
> 
> Galilean calculation of abberation (Michelson): a' = arctan(c/v)
> v           a'
> --------------------------------------
> 0.0000 c    90°
> 0.0001 c    89.99427042206779° 
> 0.1000 c    84.28940686250036°         
> 
> Reflection angle calculated using Huyghen's law: a' = 2 arctan(1 - v/c)
> v           a'
> --------------------------------------
> 0.0000 c    90°
> 0.0001 c    89.99427013556024°
> 0.1000 c    83.97442499163332°

You are stupid again.

The angles in any laboratory's measuremet are the same:
90 = 90,
77 = 77

there is no speed dependency!

v/c = 0 in any lab. exp.
understand?

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