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Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #386788 > unrolled thread

How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get?

Started by"HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....>
First post2016-06-28 20:21 +1000
Last post2016-07-02 05:53 +1000
Articles 20 on this page of 376 — 21 participants

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Contents

  How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-06-28 20:21 +1000
    Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-06-28 12:16 +0000
    Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-06-28 22:27 +1000
      Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-06-30 11:50 +1000
        Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-06-30 21:38 +1000
          Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-06-30 22:25 +1000
            Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? HGW <hw@...> - 2016-07-01 14:07 +1000
              Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-07-01 14:49 +1000
                Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-06-30 23:44 -0700
                  Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-07-01 17:13 +1000
                    Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-07-01 00:21 -0700
                      Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-07-01 18:57 +1000
                        Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-07-01 02:54 -0700
                    Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? paparios <paparios@gmail.com> - 2016-07-01 05:21 -0700
                    Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-01 07:50 -0500
                      Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-07-01 06:21 -0700
                Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-07-02 05:26 +1000
                  Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-07-02 12:46 +1000
                    Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-07-03 06:41 +1000
                      Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? dancouriann@gmail.com - 2016-07-02 15:59 -0700
                        Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? dancouriann@gmail.com - 2016-07-02 20:45 -0700
                      Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-07-02 18:12 -0700
                      Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-07-03 14:39 +1000
                        Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? dancouriann@gmail.com - 2016-07-02 23:10 -0700
                          Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-07-03 17:17 +1000
                            Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? dancouriann@gmail.com - 2016-07-03 01:18 -0700
                              Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-07-03 19:54 +1000
                              Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-07-03 23:20 +1000
                                Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-07-04 21:03 +1000
                                  Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-07-04 21:29 +1000
                                    Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-07-05 08:25 +1000
                                      Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-07-05 10:03 +1000
                                        Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-07-06 07:15 +1000
                                          Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-07-06 11:46 +1000
                                            Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-07-07 11:06 +1000
                                  Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-07-04 05:47 -0700
                                    Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-07-05 08:30 +1000
                                      Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-07-04 19:34 -0700
                                        Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-07-04 20:42 -0700
                                          Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-07-06 07:22 +1000
                                            Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-05 16:30 -0500
                                              Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-07-07 05:27 +1000
                                                Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-06 14:47 -0500
                                                  Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-07-07 07:20 +1000
                                Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-07-04 15:09 +1000
                              Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-07-03 23:28 +1000
                                Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? dancouriann@gmail.com - 2016-07-03 07:50 -0700
                                  Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-07-04 08:44 +1000
                                    Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? dancouriann@gmail.com - 2016-07-03 17:07 -0700
                                      Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? dancouriann@gmail.com - 2016-07-04 08:10 -0700
                                        Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-04 11:34 -0500
                                        Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-04 11:32 -0500
                                        Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-07-05 08:47 +1000
                                          Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? dancouriann@gmail.com - 2016-07-04 16:43 -0700
                                            Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-07-06 07:28 +1000
                                              Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-05 16:38 -0500
                                                Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-07-05 14:56 -0700
                                                  Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? "Dr. Bob John" <drbobjohn@hotmail.org> - 2016-07-05 21:59 +0000
                                                  Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-05 17:52 -0500
                                                Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-07-07 05:44 +1000
                                                  Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-06 14:50 -0500
                                                    Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-07-07 07:18 +1000
                                                      Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-07 13:17 -0500
                                                  Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2016-07-06 22:27 -0700
                                              Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? dancouriann@gmail.com - 2016-07-05 16:31 -0700
                                                Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-07-07 05:46 +1000
                                                  Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? dancouriann@gmail.com - 2016-07-06 16:00 -0700
                                      Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-07-04 21:11 +1000
                                Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-04 11:25 -0500
                                  Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-07-05 08:49 +1000
                                    Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-05 07:38 -0500
                                      Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-07-06 07:30 +1000
                                        Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-05 17:48 -0500
                                          Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-05 18:09 -0500
                                          Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-07-07 05:59 +1000
                                            Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-06 15:09 -0500
                                              Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-07-12 05:11 +1000
                            Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-07-03 23:50 +1000
                              Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-07-04 18:43 +1000
                                Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-07-04 19:27 +1000
                                  Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-07-04 21:24 +1000
                                    Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-07-04 21:32 +1000
                                    Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-07-04 13:15 +0000
                                      Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-07-05 08:54 +1000
                                        Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-07-05 09:57 +1000
                                        Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-07-05 02:34 +0000
                                          Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2016-07-05 18:55 +0200
                                          Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-07-06 07:34 +1000
                                            Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-05 17:50 -0500
                                              Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-07-06 05:46 -0700
                                                Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-06 08:26 -0500
                                                  Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-07-06 06:55 -0700
                                                    Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-06 09:22 -0500
                                                      Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-07-06 08:03 -0700
                                                        Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-06 10:49 -0500
                                                          Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-07-06 15:22 -0700
                                                            Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-06 17:39 -0500
                                                              Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-07-07 05:25 -0700
                                                                Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-07 09:13 -0500
                                                    Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-07-06 15:05 +0000
                                                      Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-07-06 08:23 -0700
                                                        Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-07-06 15:41 +0000
                                                        Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-06 10:54 -0500
                                                      Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2016-07-06 17:40 +0200
                                              Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-07-07 06:57 +1000
                                                Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-06 16:10 -0500
                                                Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-07-07 11:19 +1000
                                                  Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-07-08 12:49 +1000
                              Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? HGW <hw@...> - 2016-07-04 16:21 +1000
                              Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-07-04 15:11 +1000
                        Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-07-03 22:38 +1000
    Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? David Waite <waitedavid1618@yahoo.com> - 2016-06-28 07:05 -0700
    Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-06-28 07:42 -0700
    Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Rafael Valls Hidalgo-Gato <rvalls162@gmail.com> - 2016-06-28 09:17 -0700
      Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-06-29 06:44 +1000
        Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-06-28 16:38 -0500
          Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-06-29 23:29 +1000
            Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-06-29 09:25 -0500
              Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-06-30 06:05 +1000
                Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-06-29 15:27 -0500
                  Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-06-30 07:05 +1000
                    Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-06-29 16:24 -0500
                      Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-06-30 08:09 +1000
                        Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-06-29 17:27 -0500
                          Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-06-30 20:45 +1000
                            Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-06-30 08:17 -0500
                              Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? HGW <hw@...> - 2016-07-01 13:59 +1000
              Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-06-30 05:24 -0700
                Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-06-30 08:21 -0500
                  Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-06-30 06:39 -0700
                    Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-06-30 09:16 -0500
                      Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-06-30 14:33 -0700
                        Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-06-30 17:31 -0500
                          Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-07-01 09:28 -0700
                            Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-01 13:38 -0500
                              Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-07-01 14:24 -0700
                                Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-07-03 05:01 -0700
                                  Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-04 11:25 -0500
                                    Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-07-04 10:48 -0700
                                      Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-04 13:03 -0500
                                        Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-07-04 13:30 -0700
                                          Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-05 07:35 -0500
                                            Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-07-05 06:38 -0700
                                              Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-05 08:50 -0500
                                                Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-07-05 11:18 -0700
                                                  Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-05 13:28 -0500
                                                    Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-07-06 06:03 -0700
                                                      Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-06 08:43 -0500
                                                        Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-07-06 08:17 -0700
                                                          Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-07-06 15:33 +0000
                                                            Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-07-07 06:04 -0700
                                                              Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-07 09:24 -0500
                                                                Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-07-07 09:21 -0700
                                                                  Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-07 12:24 -0500
                                                                    Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-07-07 17:54 -0700
                                                                      Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-07-08 04:30 +0000
                                                                        Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-07-08 05:39 -0700
                                                                          Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-07-08 14:24 +0000
                                                                            Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-07-08 15:08 -0700
                                                                              Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-07-09 03:11 +0000
                                                                                Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-07-09 05:28 -0700
                                                                                  Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? paparios <paparios@gmail.com> - 2016-07-09 07:36 -0700
                                                                                  Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-07-10 03:53 +0000
                                                                                    Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-07-10 05:10 -0700
                                                                                  Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-10 08:24 -0500
                                                                                    Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-07-11 04:56 -0700
                                                                                      Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-11 07:47 -0500
                                                                                        Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-07-11 06:42 -0700
                                                                                          Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-11 09:22 -0500
                                                                                            Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-07-11 13:04 -0700
                                                                      Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-08 07:38 -0500
                                                                        Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-07-08 05:48 -0700
                                                                          Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-07-08 06:27 -0700
                                                                          Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-08 08:59 -0500
                                                                            Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-07-08 15:24 +0000
                                                                            Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-07-08 14:58 -0700
                                                                              Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-10 08:22 -0500
                                                                                Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-07-11 04:48 -0700
                                                                                  Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-11 07:46 -0500
                                                                                    Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-07-11 06:39 -0700
                                                                                      Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-11 09:21 -0500
                                                                                        Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-07-11 13:01 -0700
                                                                                          Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-12 08:29 -0500
                                                                                            Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-07-12 15:19 -0700
                                                                                              Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-13 08:39 -0500
                                                                                                Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-07-14 04:15 -0700
                                                                                                  Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-14 09:25 -0500
                                                                                                    Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-07-14 23:22 -0700
                                                                                                    Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-07-15 07:43 -0700
                                                                                                      Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-15 10:14 -0500
                                                                                                        Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-07-15 13:35 -0700
                                                                                                          Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-15 15:46 -0500
                                                                                                            Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-07-15 21:46 +0000
                                                                                                              Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-07-16 07:06 -0700
                                                                                                                Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-07-16 09:19 -0700
                                                                                                                Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-07-17 02:48 +0000
                                                                                                            Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-07-16 05:05 -0700
                                                                                                              Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-16 12:52 -0500
                                                                                                                Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-07-16 11:55 -0700
                                                                                                                  Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-16 16:45 -0500
                                                                                                                    Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-07-17 05:59 -0700
                                                                                                                      Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-17 15:36 -0500
                                                                                                                        Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-07-17 19:59 -0700
                                                                                                                          Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-18 06:47 -0500
                                                                                                                            Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-07-18 06:02 -0700
                                                                                                                              Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-18 08:28 -0500
                                                                                                                                Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-18 08:34 -0500
                                                                                                                                Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-07-18 09:02 -0700
                                                                                                                                  Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-18 11:15 -0500
                                                                                                                                  Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-07-18 17:23 +0000
                                                                                                                                  Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-18 12:28 -0500
                                                                                                                                Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? paparios <paparios@gmail.com> - 2016-07-18 09:34 -0700
                                                                                                                                Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-07-18 10:41 -0700
                                                                                                                                  Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-18 12:44 -0500
                                                                                                                                  Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-18 12:46 -0500
                                                                                                                                    Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-18 12:53 -0500
                                                                                                                                      Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-07-18 11:21 -0700
                                                                                                                                        Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-18 13:30 -0500
                                                                                                                                          Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-07-19 07:16 -0700
                                                                                                                                  Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-18 12:50 -0500
                                                                                                                                  Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-18 13:00 -0500
                                                                                                                                    Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-07-18 11:17 -0700
                                                                                                                                      Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-18 13:28 -0500
                                                                                                                                      Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-18 13:34 -0500
                                                                                                                                        Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-07-20 05:58 -0700
                                                                                                                                          Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-20 08:41 -0500
                                                                                                                                            Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-07-20 14:06 -0700
                                                                                                                                              Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-20 16:42 -0500
                                                                                                                                                Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-07-21 04:21 -0700
                                                                                                                                                  Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-21 09:20 -0500
                                                                                                                      Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-17 15:37 -0500
                                                                                                                        Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-07-18 04:41 -0700
                                                                                                                          Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-18 06:52 -0500
                                                                                                                          Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-07-18 15:33 +0000
                                                                                                                            Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-07-18 10:31 -0700
                                                                                                                              Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-18 12:41 -0500
                                                                                                                              Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? "HGW." <hw@....> - 2016-07-20 08:34 +1000
                                                                                                                                Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-19 18:04 -0500
                                                                                                                          Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2016-07-19 08:39 +0200
                                                                                                                      Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-07-18 03:27 +0000
                                                                                                              Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-16 12:53 -0500
                                                                                                                Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-07-16 11:48 -0700
                                                                                                                  Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-07-17 10:30 -0500
                                                                                                                    Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-07-17 11:50 -0700
                                                                                                                    Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? "HGW." <hw@....> - 2016-07-18 08:42 +1000
                                                                                                                      Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-07-18 03:29 +0000
                                                                                                                      Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2016-07-19 08:43 +0200
                                                                                                                        Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? "HGW." <hw@....> - 2016-07-20 08:25 +1000
                                                                                                                          Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-19 18:03 -0500
                                                                                                                            Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? "HGW." <hw@....> - 2016-07-20 12:51 +1000
                                                                                                                          Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2016-07-20 18:54 +0200
                                                                                                                            Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? "HGW." <hw@....> - 2016-07-21 08:29 +1000
                                                                                              Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-07-13 14:59 +0000
                                                                                                Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-07-14 04:26 -0700
                                                                                                  Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-07-14 13:30 +0000
                                                                                                    Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-07-15 08:44 -0700
                                                                                                      Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-15 10:58 -0500
                                                                                                      Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-07-15 16:17 +0000
                                                              Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-07-07 14:53 +0000
                                                                Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-07-07 09:10 -0700
                                                                  Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-07-07 16:35 +0000
                                                                  Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-07 12:07 -0500
                                                                    Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-07-08 05:22 -0700
                                                                      Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-08 07:43 -0500
                                                          Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-06 10:53 -0500
                                                            Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-07-06 13:53 -0700
                                                              Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-06 16:07 -0500
                                                              Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-07-06 22:25 +0000
                                                                Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-06 17:41 -0500
                                                                  Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-07-07 02:52 +0000
                                                                  Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-07-07 05:38 -0700
                                                                    Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-07 09:20 -0500
                                                                      Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-07-07 09:18 -0700
                                                                        Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-07 12:09 -0500
                                                                          Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-07 12:28 -0500
                                                          Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-07 11:05 -0500
                                                            Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-07-07 09:24 -0700
                                                              Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-07 12:26 -0500
                                                                Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-07-08 05:27 -0700
                                                                  Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-08 07:46 -0500
                                Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-04 11:05 -0500
                                  Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-07-04 10:40 -0700
                                    Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-04 13:02 -0500
                                      Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-07-04 13:23 -0700
                                        Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-05 07:33 -0500
        Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Rafael Valls Hidalgo-Gato <rvalls162@gmail.com> - 2016-06-29 08:52 -0700
          Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-06-30 06:00 +1000
            Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-06-29 15:21 -0500
              Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-06-30 07:07 +1000
                Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-06-29 16:26 -0500
            Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-06-30 04:16 +0000
              Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-06-30 20:52 +1000
                Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-06-30 08:19 -0500
                  Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? HGW <hw@...> - 2016-07-01 14:02 +1000
                Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-07-03 20:14 +0000
                  Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-07-04 09:27 +1000
                    Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-07-04 02:58 +0000
                      Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-07-04 17:00 +0000
                        Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-07-05 09:18 +1000
                      Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-07-04 21:43 +1000
            Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Rafael Valls Hidalgo-Gato <rvalls162@gmail.com> - 2016-06-30 11:00 -0700
              Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-07-02 05:50 +1000
                Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Rafael Valls Hidalgo-Gato <rvalls162@gmail.com> - 2016-07-01 16:58 -0700
                  Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? HGW <hw@...> - 2016-07-02 10:41 +1000
                    Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Rafael Valls Hidalgo-Gato <rvalls162@gmail.com> - 2016-07-05 08:52 -0700
                      Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-07-06 07:07 +1000
                        Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Rafael Valls Hidalgo-Gato <rvalls162@gmail.com> - 2016-07-05 16:39 -0700
                          Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-07-07 05:07 +1000
                            Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Rafael Valls Hidalgo-Gato <rvalls162@gmail.com> - 2016-07-07 05:55 -0700
                        Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2016-07-06 13:07 +0200
                          Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-07-07 05:24 +1000
                            Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2016-07-07 14:54 +0200
                              Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? HGW <hw@....> - 2016-07-10 10:03 +1000
                                Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2016-07-10 14:47 +0200
                                  Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-07-12 05:06 +1000
                                    Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2016-07-11 23:01 +0200
                                      Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? HGW <hw@....> - 2016-07-13 08:19 +1000
                                        Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2016-07-13 21:05 +0200
                                      Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-07-13 00:05 -0700
                          Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2016-07-06 12:47 -0700
                            Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-06 14:52 -0500
                              Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-07-07 07:12 +1000
                                Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-06 16:42 -0500
                                  Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-07-08 15:35 +0000
                              Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? HGW <hw@....> - 2016-07-10 10:08 +1000
                                Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-07-10 13:22 +1000
                                Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-10 08:27 -0500
                                  Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? HGW <hw@....> - 2016-07-13 08:23 +1000
                                    Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-07-13 16:26 +1000
                                      Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-07-12 23:55 -0700
                                        Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Rafael Valls Hidalgo-Gato <rvalls162@gmail.com> - 2016-07-13 06:50 -0700
                                          Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-07-13 07:17 -0700
                                            Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-07-13 11:27 -0700
                                            Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Rafael Valls Hidalgo-Gato <rvalls162@gmail.com> - 2016-07-13 13:45 -0700
                                              Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2016-07-13 23:30 +0200
                                                Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Rafael Valls Hidalgo-Gato <rvalls162@gmail.com> - 2016-07-14 06:24 -0700
                                    Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-13 08:42 -0500
                                      Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-07-14 04:22 -0700
                                        Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-14 09:25 -0500
                                          Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-07-15 13:39 -0700
                                            Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? "HGW." <hw@....> - 2016-07-16 08:38 +1000
                                              Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? pnalsing@gmail.com - 2016-07-15 16:18 -0700
                                              Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-16 12:47 -0500
                                            Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-16 13:02 -0500
                                              Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-07-16 11:46 -0700
                                                Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-16 16:39 -0500
                                                  Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-07-17 05:51 -0700
                                                    Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-07-17 07:06 -0700
                                                      Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2016-07-17 16:11 +0200
                                                      Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-07-17 07:44 -0700
                                                        Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-07-17 09:41 -0700
                                                          Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-07-17 12:45 -0700
                                                            Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-07-17 18:07 -0700
                                                              Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-07-18 04:47 -0700
                                                                Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-18 06:54 -0500
                                                    Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-17 15:34 -0500
                Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-07-03 15:02 +0000
                  Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-07-03 11:42 -0500
                    Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-07-04 06:10 -0700
                  Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-07-04 09:23 +1000
                    Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-07-03 19:12 -0700
                      Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-07-04 16:37 +0000
                      Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-07-04 21:26 +1000
                        Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-07-04 04:38 -0700
                          Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-07-05 09:05 +1000
                            Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-07-05 04:41 -0700
                              Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-07-06 20:07 +1000
                                Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-07-06 05:07 -0700
                    Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-07-04 02:46 +0000
                      Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-07-04 16:51 +0000
                      Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-07-04 21:36 +1000
                        Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-07-04 04:49 -0700
                          Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-07-05 09:01 +1000
                            Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-07-05 07:40 -0500
    Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2016-07-01 08:41 +0200
      Re: How Stupid Can a Dingleberry Get? "HGWilson, DSc." <hgw@....> - 2016-07-02 05:53 +1000

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#387202

Fromkenseto <setoken@att.net>
Date2016-07-04 13:30 -0700
Message-ID<c2f487d0-c73d-4c19-ad4b-922b6fa2c214@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#387193
On Monday, July 4, 2016 at 2:03:43 PM UTC-4, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> On 7/4/2016 12:48 PM, kenseto wrote:
> >> > You are proposing discarding the Lorentz transformations when discussing
> >> > relativity???
> > No I am proposing discarding the coordinate system of the LT and use the delta form
> > of the LT. The coordinate system of the LT give results disagree with actual measurements.
> 
> Ken, the Lorentz transform is a transform between systems of 
> coordinates. To get rid of the coordinate systems is to deny that the 
> Lorentz transforms are coordinate transforms.

The delta form of the LT is insensitive to directions of relative motion and it agree with observations.

> 
> And no, the Lorentz transforms do not disagree with actual measurements.

Yes the coordinate form of the LT give different transit time for the different directions and this disagrees with what the rod frame measures. The delta form of the LT have no such problem.

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#387224

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2016-07-05 07:35 -0500
Message-ID<nlg9if$51d$2@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#387202
On 7/4/2016 3:30 PM, kenseto wrote:
> On Monday, July 4, 2016 at 2:03:43 PM UTC-4, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>> On 7/4/2016 12:48 PM, kenseto wrote:
>>>>> You are proposing discarding the Lorentz transformations when discussing
>>>>> relativity???
>>> No I am proposing discarding the coordinate system of the LT and use the delta form
>>> of the LT. The coordinate system of the LT give results disagree with actual measurements.
>>
>> Ken, the Lorentz transform is a transform between systems of
>> coordinates. To get rid of the coordinate systems is to deny that the
>> Lorentz transforms are coordinate transforms.
>
> The delta form of the LT is insensitive to directions of relative motion and it agree with observations.
>
>>
>> And no, the Lorentz transforms do not disagree with actual measurements.
>
> Yes the coordinate form of the LT give different transit time for the different directions

In the primed frame, yes. Not in the rod frame.

> and this
> disagrees with what the rod frame measures.

This is not a problem. It's just fine for the rod frame and the primed 
frame to disagree on that.

> The delta form of the LT have no such problem.

It's not a problem. It's SUPPOSED to be like that.

>


-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#387227

Fromkenseto <setoken@att.net>
Date2016-07-05 06:38 -0700
Message-ID<cdfaff64-9b2e-45c2-9cdb-004869c1ba7c@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#387224
On Tuesday, July 5, 2016 at 8:35:29 AM UTC-4, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> On 7/4/2016 3:30 PM, kenseto wrote:
> > On Monday, July 4, 2016 at 2:03:43 PM UTC-4, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> >> On 7/4/2016 12:48 PM, kenseto wrote:
> >>>>> You are proposing discarding the Lorentz transformations when discussing
> >>>>> relativity???
> >>> No I am proposing discarding the coordinate system of the LT and use the delta form
> >>> of the LT. The coordinate system of the LT give results disagree with actual measurements.
> >>
> >> Ken, the Lorentz transform is a transform between systems of
> >> coordinates. To get rid of the coordinate systems is to deny that the
> >> Lorentz transforms are coordinate transforms.
> >
> > The delta form of the LT is insensitive to directions of relative motion and it agree with observations.
> >
> >>
> >> And no, the Lorentz transforms do not disagree with actual measurements.
> >
> > Yes the coordinate form of the LT give different transit time for the different directions
> 
> In the primed frame, yes. Not in the rod frame.
> 
> > and this
> > disagrees with what the rod frame measures.
> 
> This is not a problem. It's just fine for the rod frame and the primed 
> frame to disagree on that.

It is a problem.....you get two different transit times because of the following bogus assumptions: 
1. left to right....the speed of light is c+v. No such velocity exist in any frame.
2. right to left.....the speed of light is c-v. No such velocity exists in any frame.

That means that the two different transit time you predicted are based on faulty assumptions. Gee why don't you wake up and learn some real physics.

> 
> > The delta form of the LT have no such problem.
> 
> It's not a problem. It's SUPPOSED to be like that.
> 
> >
> 
> 
> -- 
> Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#387228

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2016-07-05 08:50 -0500
Message-ID<nlgdvj$cc3$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#387227
On 7/5/2016 8:38 AM, kenseto wrote:
> On Tuesday, July 5, 2016 at 8:35:29 AM UTC-4, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>> On 7/4/2016 3:30 PM, kenseto wrote:
>>> On Monday, July 4, 2016 at 2:03:43 PM UTC-4, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>>>> On 7/4/2016 12:48 PM, kenseto wrote:
>>>>>>> You are proposing discarding the Lorentz transformations when discussing
>>>>>>> relativity???
>>>>> No I am proposing discarding the coordinate system of the LT and use the delta form
>>>>> of the LT. The coordinate system of the LT give results disagree with actual measurements.
>>>>
>>>> Ken, the Lorentz transform is a transform between systems of
>>>> coordinates. To get rid of the coordinate systems is to deny that the
>>>> Lorentz transforms are coordinate transforms.
>>>
>>> The delta form of the LT is insensitive to directions of relative motion and it agree with observations.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> And no, the Lorentz transforms do not disagree with actual measurements.
>>>
>>> Yes the coordinate form of the LT give different transit time for the different directions
>>
>> In the primed frame, yes. Not in the rod frame.
>>
>>> and this
>>> disagrees with what the rod frame measures.
>>
>> This is not a problem. It's just fine for the rod frame and the primed
>> frame to disagree on that.
>
> It is a problem.....you get two different transit times because of the following bogus assumptions:
> 1. left to right....the speed of light is c+v. No such velocity exist in any frame.
> 2. right to left.....the speed of light is c-v. No such velocity exists in any frame.

Ken, the speed of light is not c+v or c-v in any frame.
That's not where the difference in transit time comes from.
If you just do the algebra, you'll see that the transit times are 
different in the primed frame, even thought the speed of light is still 
c in that frame.

Doing the algebra will show this.

>
> That means that the two different transit time you predicted are based on faulty assumptions.
> Gee why don't you wake up and learn some real physics.

Doing some real physics involves putting the variables into the 
equations and doing a little algebra. It's not hard, Ken. Can you do it?

>
>>
>>> The delta form of the LT have no such problem.
>>
>> It's not a problem. It's SUPPOSED to be like that.
>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables
>


-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#387234

Fromkenseto <setoken@att.net>
Date2016-07-05 11:18 -0700
Message-ID<acc0c56f-be2a-4862-ba3a-09d869661ffa@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#387228
On Tuesday, July 5, 2016 at 9:50:47 AM UTC-4, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> On 7/5/2016 8:38 AM, kenseto wrote:
> > On Tuesday, July 5, 2016 at 8:35:29 AM UTC-4, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> >> On 7/4/2016 3:30 PM, kenseto wrote:
> >>> On Monday, July 4, 2016 at 2:03:43 PM UTC-4, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> >>>> On 7/4/2016 12:48 PM, kenseto wrote:
> >>>>>>> You are proposing discarding the Lorentz transformations when discussing
> >>>>>>> relativity???
> >>>>> No I am proposing discarding the coordinate system of the LT and use the delta form
> >>>>> of the LT. The coordinate system of the LT give results disagree with actual measurements.
> >>>>
> >>>> Ken, the Lorentz transform is a transform between systems of
> >>>> coordinates. To get rid of the coordinate systems is to deny that the
> >>>> Lorentz transforms are coordinate transforms.
> >>>
> >>> The delta form of the LT is insensitive to directions of relative motion and it agree with observations.
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> And no, the Lorentz transforms do not disagree with actual measurements.
> >>>
> >>> Yes the coordinate form of the LT give different transit time for the different directions
> >>
> >> In the primed frame, yes. Not in the rod frame.
> >>
> >>> and this
> >>> disagrees with what the rod frame measures.
> >>
> >> This is not a problem. It's just fine for the rod frame and the primed
> >> frame to disagree on that.
> >
> > It is a problem.....you get two different transit times because of the following bogus assumptions:
> > 1. left to right....the speed of light is c+v. No such velocity exist in any frame.
> > 2. right to left.....the speed of light is c-v. No such velocity exists in any frame.
> 
> Ken, the speed of light is not c+v or c-v in any frame.
> That's not where the difference in transit time comes from.
> If you just do the algebra, you'll see that the transit times are 
> different in the. primed frame, even thought the speed of light is still 
> c in that frame.

Then show us how the LT get two different transit times....don't just give us a bunch of bull-shit.


> 
> Doing the algebra will show this.
> 
> >
> > That means that the two different transit time you predicted are based on faulty assumptions.
> > Gee why don't you wake up and learn some real physics.
> 
> Doing some real physics involves putting the variables into the 
> equations and doing a little algebra. It's not hard, Ken. Can you do it?
> 
> >
> >>
> >>> The delta form of the LT have no such problem.
> >>
> >> It's not a problem. It's SUPPOSED to be like that.
> >>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables
> >
> 
> 
> -- 
> Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#387235

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2016-07-05 13:28 -0500
Message-ID<nlgu7o$17dk$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#387234
On 7/5/2016 1:18 PM, kenseto wrote:
> On Tuesday, July 5, 2016 at 9:50:47 AM UTC-4, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>> On 7/5/2016 8:38 AM, kenseto wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, July 5, 2016 at 8:35:29 AM UTC-4, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>>>> On 7/4/2016 3:30 PM, kenseto wrote:
>>>>> On Monday, July 4, 2016 at 2:03:43 PM UTC-4, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>>>>>> On 7/4/2016 12:48 PM, kenseto wrote:
>>>>>>>>> You are proposing discarding the Lorentz transformations when discussing
>>>>>>>>> relativity???
>>>>>>> No I am proposing discarding the coordinate system of the LT and use the delta form
>>>>>>> of the LT. The coordinate system of the LT give results disagree with actual measurements.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ken, the Lorentz transform is a transform between systems of
>>>>>> coordinates. To get rid of the coordinate systems is to deny that the
>>>>>> Lorentz transforms are coordinate transforms.
>>>>>
>>>>> The delta form of the LT is insensitive to directions of relative motion and it agree with observations.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And no, the Lorentz transforms do not disagree with actual measurements.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes the coordinate form of the LT give different transit time for the different directions
>>>>
>>>> In the primed frame, yes. Not in the rod frame.
>>>>
>>>>> and this
>>>>> disagrees with what the rod frame measures.
>>>>
>>>> This is not a problem. It's just fine for the rod frame and the primed
>>>> frame to disagree on that.
>>>
>>> It is a problem.....you get two different transit times because of the following bogus assumptions:
>>> 1. left to right....the speed of light is c+v. No such velocity exist in any frame.
>>> 2. right to left.....the speed of light is c-v. No such velocity exists in any frame.
>>
>> Ken, the speed of light is not c+v or c-v in any frame.
>> That's not where the difference in transit time comes from.
>> If you just do the algebra, you'll see that the transit times are
>> different in the. primed frame, even thought the speed of light is still
>> c in that frame.
>
> Then show us how the LT get two different transit times....don't just give us a bunch of bull-shit.

I did, Ken.
1. I gave you the correct Lorentz transformations for the emission time 
and for the arrival time.
2. I gave you all the correct quantities to substitute in the variables 
for the left-going light and for the right-going light.
3. I told you the step by steps you'd need to take to get the transit 
times (it was like three steps).

All you have to do is follow the three steps, substitute in the 
quantities as instructed, and then do the algebra to simplify the 
answer. I assume you can follow the steps and do very simple algebra.

Can you follow those three steps and do the algebra or not?

>
>
>>
>> Doing the algebra will show this.
>>
>>>
>>> That means that the two different transit time you predicted are based on faulty assumptions.
>>> Gee why don't you wake up and learn some real physics.
>>
>> Doing some real physics involves putting the variables into the
>> equations and doing a little algebra. It's not hard, Ken. Can you do it?
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> The delta form of the LT have no such problem.
>>>>
>>>> It's not a problem. It's SUPPOSED to be like that.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables
>


-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#387285

Fromkenseto <setoken@att.net>
Date2016-07-06 06:03 -0700
Message-ID<7483b122-017f-449a-94cc-524a61fbc921@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#387235
On Tuesday, July 5, 2016 at 2:28:12 PM UTC-4, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> On 7/5/2016 1:18 PM, kenseto wrote:
> > On Tuesday, July 5, 2016 at 9:50:47 AM UTC-4, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> >> On 7/5/2016 8:38 AM, kenseto wrote:
> >>> On Tuesday, July 5, 2016 at 8:35:29 AM UTC-4, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> >>>> On 7/4/2016 3:30 PM, kenseto wrote:
> >>>>> On Monday, July 4, 2016 at 2:03:43 PM UTC-4, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> >>>>>> On 7/4/2016 12:48 PM, kenseto wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> You are proposing discarding the Lorentz transformations when discussing
> >>>>>>>>> relativity???
> >>>>>>> No I am proposing discarding the coordinate system of the LT and use the delta form
> >>>>>>> of the LT. The coordinate system of the LT give results disagree with actual measurements.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Ken, the Lorentz transform is a transform between systems of
> >>>>>> coordinates. To get rid of the coordinate systems is to deny that the
> >>>>>> Lorentz transforms are coordinate transforms.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The delta form of the LT is insensitive to directions of relative motion and it agree with observations.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> And no, the Lorentz transforms do not disagree with actual measurements.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Yes the coordinate form of the LT give different transit time for the different directions
> >>>>
> >>>> In the primed frame, yes. Not in the rod frame.
> >>>>
> >>>>> and this
> >>>>> disagrees with what the rod frame measures.
> >>>>
> >>>> This is not a problem. It's just fine for the rod frame and the primed
> >>>> frame to disagree on that.
> >>>
> >>> It is a problem.....you get two different transit times because of the following bogus assumptions:
> >>> 1. left to right....the speed of light is c+v. No such velocity exist in any frame.
> >>> 2. right to left.....the speed of light is c-v. No such velocity exists in any frame.
> >>
> >> Ken, the speed of light is not c+v or c-v in any frame.
> >> That's not where the difference in transit time comes from.
> >> If you just do the algebra, you'll see that the transit times are
> >> different in the. primed frame, even thought the speed of light is still
> >> c in that frame.
> >
> > Then show us how the LT get two different transit times....don't just give us a bunch of bull-shit.
> 
> I did, Ken.
> 1. I gave you the correct Lorentz transformations for the emission time 
> and for the arrival time.
> 2. I gave you all the correct quantities to substitute in the variables 
> for the left-going light and for the right-going light.
> 3. I told you the step by steps you'd need to take to get the transit 
> times (it was like three steps).

The LT equation is as follows:
t'=gamma(t-vL/c^2)
To get different transit times for the opposite directions: You simply said that in one direction the value of L is zero and in another direction the value is L. This is doing physics by assertion. Also, it appears that you don't know what the term (vL/c^2) means....L does not mean the point of emission.

> 
> All you have to do is follow the three steps, substitute in the 
> quantities as instructed, and then do the algebra to simplify the 
> answer. I assume you can follow the steps and do very simple algebra.
> 
> Can you follow those three steps and do the algebra or not?
> 
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Doing the algebra will show this.
> >>
> >>>
> >>> That means that the two different transit time you predicted are based on faulty assumptions.
> >>> Gee why don't you wake up and learn some real physics.
> >>
> >> Doing some real physics involves putting the variables into the
> >> equations and doing a little algebra. It's not hard, Ken. Can you do it?
> >>
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> The delta form of the LT have no such problem.
> >>>>
> >>>> It's not a problem. It's SUPPOSED to be like that.
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables
> >
> 
> 
> -- 
> Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#387289

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2016-07-06 08:43 -0500
Message-ID<nlj1t6$3su$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#387285
On 7/6/2016 8:03 AM, kenseto wrote:
> On Tuesday, July 5, 2016 at 2:28:12 PM UTC-4, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>> On 7/5/2016 1:18 PM, kenseto wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, July 5, 2016 at 9:50:47 AM UTC-4, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>>>> On 7/5/2016 8:38 AM, kenseto wrote:
>>>>> On Tuesday, July 5, 2016 at 8:35:29 AM UTC-4, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>>>>>> On 7/4/2016 3:30 PM, kenseto wrote:
>>>>>>> On Monday, July 4, 2016 at 2:03:43 PM UTC-4, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 7/4/2016 12:48 PM, kenseto wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> You are proposing discarding the Lorentz transformations when discussing
>>>>>>>>>>> relativity???
>>>>>>>>> No I am proposing discarding the coordinate system of the LT and use the delta form
>>>>>>>>> of the LT. The coordinate system of the LT give results disagree with actual measurements.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ken, the Lorentz transform is a transform between systems of
>>>>>>>> coordinates. To get rid of the coordinate systems is to deny that the
>>>>>>>> Lorentz transforms are coordinate transforms.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The delta form of the LT is insensitive to directions of relative motion and it agree with observations.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And no, the Lorentz transforms do not disagree with actual measurements.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes the coordinate form of the LT give different transit time for the different directions
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In the primed frame, yes. Not in the rod frame.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> and this
>>>>>>> disagrees with what the rod frame measures.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is not a problem. It's just fine for the rod frame and the primed
>>>>>> frame to disagree on that.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is a problem.....you get two different transit times because of the following bogus assumptions:
>>>>> 1. left to right....the speed of light is c+v. No such velocity exist in any frame.
>>>>> 2. right to left.....the speed of light is c-v. No such velocity exists in any frame.
>>>>
>>>> Ken, the speed of light is not c+v or c-v in any frame.
>>>> That's not where the difference in transit time comes from.
>>>> If you just do the algebra, you'll see that the transit times are
>>>> different in the. primed frame, even thought the speed of light is still
>>>> c in that frame.
>>>
>>> Then show us how the LT get two different transit times....don't just give us a bunch of bull-shit.
>>
>> I did, Ken.
>> 1. I gave you the correct Lorentz transformations for the emission time
>> and for the arrival time.
>> 2. I gave you all the correct quantities to substitute in the variables
>> for the left-going light and for the right-going light.
>> 3. I told you the step by steps you'd need to take to get the transit
>> times (it was like three steps).
>
> The LT equation is as follows:
> t'=gamma(t-vL/c^2)

You're not following directions, and you did not do the Lorentz 
transform correctly. I gave you simple directions.

1. You need to find both t_emmission' and t_arrival' for the 
left-to-right light. To do this, you need to use the equation TWICE, 
once for the emission and once for the arrival. When you do this, make 
sure you enter the values for t_emission and x_emission for the first 
time you use the equation, and then enter the values for t_arrival and 
x_arrival for the second time you use the equation. A reminder what 
those variables are:
t_emission = 0
x_emission = 0
t_arrival = L/c
x_arrival = L
To help you understand how to do this, I will make the substitutions for 
one step:
t_emission' = gamma( t_emission - v*x_emission/c^2 )
             = gamma ( 0 - v * 0/c^2 )
             = gamma (0)
             = 0
t_arrival'  = gamma( t_arrival - v*x_arrival/c^2 )
             = gamma ( L/c - v*L/c^2)
             = gamma ( (c-v)L/c^2 )

2. Now you need to find both t_emmission' and t_arrival' for the 
right-to-left light. To do this, you need to use the equation TWICE, 
once for the emission and once for the arrival. When you do this, make 
sure you enter the values for t_emission and x_emission for the first 
time you use the equation, and then enter the values for t_arrival and 
x_arrival for the second time you use the equation. A reminder what 
those variables are:
t_emission = 0
x_emission = L
t_arrival = L/c
x_arrival = 0
Since I showed you how to do this for step 1, then I hope you can do it 
for step 2.

3. For the transit times, you need to find t_arrival' - t_emission' for 
both the left-to-right light found in step 1, and do likewise for the 
right-to-left light found in step 2. I hope you can do this simple step.

> To get different transit times for the opposite directions: You simply said
> that in one direction the value of L is zero and in another direction the value is L.

No, I did not say the value of L is 0 ever. What I said is that for the 
left-to-right light, the emission happens at the left end of the rod, 
where x=0. This means x_emission = 0 and does not mean that L=0. And the 
arrival happens at the right end of the rod, where x=L. This means 
x_arrival = L and does not mean that L=0.

For the right-to-left light, the emission happens at x=L (the right end) 
and the arrival happens at x=0 (the left end). Thus x_emission = L in 
this case and x_arrival = 0.

I get the feeling you don't know how to substitute quantities into 
equations, a fifth grade skill.

>This is doing physics by assertion. Also, it appears that you don't
> know what the term (vL/c^2) means....L does not mean the point of emission.

For the right-to-left light, the point of emission is at the right end 
of the rod, right? That's where x=L. The location of the right end of 
the rod has an x value of L.

>
>>
>> All you have to do is follow the three steps, substitute in the
>> quantities as instructed, and then do the algebra to simplify the
>> answer. I assume you can follow the steps and do very simple algebra.
>>
>> Can you follow those three steps and do the algebra or not?
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Doing the algebra will show this.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> That means that the two different transit time you predicted are based on faulty assumptions.
>>>>> Gee why don't you wake up and learn some real physics.
>>>>
>>>> Doing some real physics involves putting the variables into the
>>>> equations and doing a little algebra. It's not hard, Ken. Can you do it?
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The delta form of the LT have no such problem.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's not a problem. It's SUPPOSED to be like that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables
>


-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#387295

Fromkenseto <setoken@att.net>
Date2016-07-06 08:17 -0700
Message-ID<870e8d70-2cbb-4076-ad79-dc23d55b4108@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#387289
On Wednesday, July 6, 2016 at 9:43:06 AM UTC-4, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> On 7/6/2016 8:03 AM, kenseto wrote:
> > On Tuesday, July 5, 2016 at 2:28:12 PM UTC-4, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> >> On 7/5/2016 1:18 PM, kenseto wrote:
> >>> On Tuesday, July 5, 2016 at 9:50:47 AM UTC-4, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> >>>> On 7/5/2016 8:38 AM, kenseto wrote:
> >>>>> On Tuesday, July 5, 2016 at 8:35:29 AM UTC-4, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> >>>>>> On 7/4/2016 3:30 PM, kenseto wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Monday, July 4, 2016 at 2:03:43 PM UTC-4, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On 7/4/2016 12:48 PM, kenseto wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>> You are proposing discarding the Lorentz transformations when discussing
> >>>>>>>>>>> relativity???
> >>>>>>>>> No I am proposing discarding the coordinate system of the LT and use the delta form
> >>>>>>>>> of the LT. The coordinate system of the LT give results disagree with actual measurements.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Ken, the Lorentz transform is a transform between systems of
> >>>>>>>> coordinates. To get rid of the coordinate systems is to deny that the
> >>>>>>>> Lorentz transforms are coordinate transforms.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> The delta form of the LT is insensitive to directions of relative motion and it agree with observations.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> And no, the Lorentz transforms do not disagree with actual measurements.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Yes the coordinate form of the LT give different transit time for the different directions
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> In the primed frame, yes. Not in the rod frame.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> and this
> >>>>>>> disagrees with what the rod frame measures.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> This is not a problem. It's just fine for the rod frame and the primed
> >>>>>> frame to disagree on that.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> It is a problem.....you get two different transit times because of the following bogus assumptions:
> >>>>> 1. left to right....the speed of light is c+v. No such velocity exist in any frame.
> >>>>> 2. right to left.....the speed of light is c-v. No such velocity exists in any frame.
> >>>>
> >>>> Ken, the speed of light is not c+v or c-v in any frame.
> >>>> That's not where the difference in transit time comes from.
> >>>> If you just do the algebra, you'll see that the transit times are
> >>>> different in the. primed frame, even thought the speed of light is still
> >>>> c in that frame.
> >>>
> >>> Then show us how the LT get two different transit times....don't just give us a bunch of bull-shit.
> >>
> >> I did, Ken.
> >> 1. I gave you the correct Lorentz transformations for the emission time
> >> and for the arrival time.
> >> 2. I gave you all the correct quantities to substitute in the variables
> >> for the left-going light and for the right-going light.
> >> 3. I told you the step by steps you'd need to take to get the transit
> >> times (it was like three steps).
> >
> > The LT equation is as follows:
> > t'=gamma(t-vL/c^2)
> 
> You're not following directions, and you did not do the Lorentz 
> transform correctly. I gave you simple directions.
> 
> 1. You need to find both t_emmission' and t_arrival' for the 
> left-to-right light. To do this, you need to use the equation TWICE, 
> once for the emission and once for the arrival. When you do this, make 
> sure you enter the values for t_emission and x_emission for the first 
> time you use the equation, and then enter the values for t_arrival and 
> x_arrival for the second time you use the equation. A reminder what 
> those variables are:
> t_emission = 0
> x_emission = 0
> t_arrival = L/c
> x_arrival = L
> To help you understand how to do this, I will make the substitutions for 
> one step:
> t_emission' = gamma( t_emission - v*x_emission/c^2 )
>              = gamma ( 0 - v * 0/c^2 )
>              = gamma (0)
>              = 0
> t_arrival'  = gamma( t_arrival - v*x_arrival/c^2 )
>              = gamma ( L/c - v*L/c^2)
>              = gamma ( (c-v)L/c^2 )
> 
> 2. Now you need to find both t_emmission' and t_arrival' for the 
> right-to-left light. To do this, you need to use the equation TWICE, 
> once for the emission and once for the arrival. When you do this, make 
> sure you enter the values for t_emission and x_emission for the first 
> time you use the equation, and then enter the values for t_arrival and 
> x_arrival for the second time you use the equation. A reminder what 
> those variables are:
> t_emission = 0
> x_emission = L
> t_arrival = L/c
> x_arrival = 0
> Since I showed you how to do this for step 1, then I hope you can do it 
> for step 2.

Sure you made the bogus assertion that left to right for x_emission=L and Right to left for x_emmission=0 and then insert these quantities to get different transit time in the different directions.....what this mean is that the different transit times for the opposite direction is the result of bogus assertions. not very scientific. 

> 
> 3. For the transit times, you need to find t_arrival' - t_emission' for 
> both the left-to-right light found in step 1, and do likewise for the 
> right-to-left light found in step 2. I hope you can do this simple step.
> 
> > To get different transit times for the opposite directions: You simply said
> > that in one direction the value of L is zero and in another direction the value is L.
> 
> No, I did not say the value of L is 0 ever. What I said is that for the 
> left-to-right light, the emission happens at the left end of the rod, 
> where x=0. This means x_emission = 0 and does not mean that L=0. And the 
> arrival happens at the right end of the rod, where x=L. This means 
> x_arrival = L and does not mean that L=0.
> 
> For the right-to-left light, the emission happens at x=L (the right end) 
> and the arrival happens at x=0 (the left end). Thus x_emission = L in 
> this case and x_arrival = 0.
> 
> I get the feeling you don't know how to substitute quantities into 
> equations, a fifth grade skill.
> 
> >This is doing physics by assertion. Also, it appears that you don't
> > know what the term (vL/c^2) means....L does not mean the point of emission.
> 
> For the right-to-left light, the point of emission is at the right end 
> of the rod, right? That's where x=L. The location of the right end of 
> the rod has an x value of L.
> 
> >
> >>
> >> All you have to do is follow the three steps, substitute in the
> >> quantities as instructed, and then do the algebra to simplify the
> >> answer. I assume you can follow the steps and do very simple algebra.
> >>
> >> Can you follow those three steps and do the algebra or not?
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Doing the algebra will show this.
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> That means that the two different transit time you predicted are based on faulty assumptions.
> >>>>> Gee why don't you wake up and learn some real physics.
> >>>>
> >>>> Doing some real physics involves putting the variables into the
> >>>> equations and doing a little algebra. It's not hard, Ken. Can you do it?
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> The delta form of the LT have no such problem.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> It's not a problem. It's SUPPOSED to be like that.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> --
> >>>>>> Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables
> >
> 
> 
> -- 
> Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#387297

Frommoroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)
Date2016-07-06 15:33 +0000
Message-ID<nlj8ce$s7k$2@pcls7.std.com>
In reply to#387295
kenseto <setoken@att.net> writes:

>On Wednesday, July 6, 2016 at 9:43:06 AM UTC-4, Odd Bodkin wrote:

>> Since I showed you how to do this for step 1, then I hope you can do it
>> for step 2.

>Sure you made the bogus assertion that left to right for x_emission=L and
>Right to left for x_emmission=0 and then insert these quantities to get
>different transit time in the different directions.....what this mean is
>that the different transit times for the opposite direction is the result of
>bogus assertions. not very scientific.

This all takes place in a reference frame where the rod is stationary,
the rod has a length of L, one end of the rod is at x=0 and the other
end of the rod is at x=L.  So, in this case, x_emission=0 and x_arrival=L
for one beam of light, and x_emission=L and x_arrival=0 for the other
beam.  That's what it means for the beams to be emitted from one end of
the rod and arrives at the other.  Do you not even understand that?

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#387377

Fromkenseto <setoken@att.net>
Date2016-07-07 06:04 -0700
Message-ID<7f5b0bce-b00a-4964-ab49-114b0d1ebc7a@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#387297
On Wednesday, July 6, 2016 at 11:34:23 AM UTC-4, Michael Moroney wrote:
> kenseto <setoken@att.net> writes:
> 
> >On Wednesday, July 6, 2016 at 9:43:06 AM UTC-4, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> 
> >> Since I showed you how to do this for step 1, then I hope you can do it
> >> for step 2.
> 
> >Sure you made the bogus assertion that left to right for x_emission=L and
> >Right to left for x_emmission=0 and then insert these quantities to get
> >different transit time in the different directions.....what this mean is
> >that the different transit times for the opposite direction is the result of
> >bogus assertions. not very scientific.
> 
> This all takes place in a reference frame where the rod is stationary,
> the rod has a length of L, one end of the rod is at x=0 and the other
> end of the rod is at x=L.  So, in this case, x_emission=0 and x_arrival=L
> for one beam of light, and x_emission=L and x_arrival=0 for the other
> beam.  That's what it means for the beams to be emitted from one end of
> the rod and arrives at the other.  Do you not even understand that?

No idiot....you arbitrarily assigning different values for the two different directions to get different transit times. That's not physics.....that's assertion. In any case you don't even know what the "x" in the term (vx/c^2) in the LT equation means....I'll  give you a hint: it's not the length of the rod. Gee you are stupid.

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#387383

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2016-07-07 09:24 -0500
Message-ID<nllon7$1vje$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#387377
On 7/7/2016 8:04 AM, kenseto wrote:
> No idiot....you arbitrarily assigning different values for the two different directions to get different
> transit times. That's not physics.....that's assertion. In any case you don't even know what the "x" in
> the term (vx/c^2) in the LT equation means....I'll  give you a hint: it's not the length of the rod.

Right! The x in the LT is the POSITION of an event. Here we are talking 
about the POSITIONS of emissions and arrivals. For light traveling from 
the left end of the rod to the right end of the rod, the POSITION of the 
emission event is at x=0, and the POSITION of the arrival event is at 
x=L. How can you dispute that???
For light traveling from the right end of the rod to the left end of the 
rod, the POSITION of the emission event is at x=L and the POSITION of 
the arrival event is at x=0. How can you dispute that???


-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#387392

Fromkenseto <setoken@att.net>
Date2016-07-07 09:21 -0700
Message-ID<2d1aa757-7cb6-4e02-9780-41122e5ae34b@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#387383
On Thursday, July 7, 2016 at 10:24:42 AM UTC-4, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> On 7/7/2016 8:04 AM, kenseto wrote:
> > No idiot....you arbitrarily assigning different values for the two different directions to get different
> > transit times. That's not physics.....that's assertion. In any case you don't even know what the "x" in
> > the term (vx/c^2) in the LT equation means....I'll  give you a hint: it's not the length of the rod.
> 
> Right! The x in the LT is the POSITION of an event. 

x is the distance of the object (the rod) from the origin of the observer's coordinate system.

>Here we are talking 
> about the POSITIONS of emissions and arrivals. For light traveling from 
> the left end of the rod to the right end of the rod, the POSITION of the 
> emission event is at x=0, and the POSITION of the arrival event is at 
> x=L. How can you dispute that???
> For light traveling from the right end of the rod to the left end of the 
> rod, the POSITION of the emission event is at x=L and the POSITION of 
> the arrival event is at x=0. How can you dispute that???
> 
> 
> -- 
> Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#387401

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2016-07-07 12:24 -0500
Message-ID<nlm388$ghh$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#387392
On 7/7/2016 11:21 AM, kenseto wrote:
> On Thursday, July 7, 2016 at 10:24:42 AM UTC-4, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>> On 7/7/2016 8:04 AM, kenseto wrote:
>>> No idiot....you arbitrarily assigning different values for the two different directions to get different
>>> transit times. That's not physics.....that's assertion. In any case you don't even know what the "x" in
>>> the term (vx/c^2) in the LT equation means....I'll  give you a hint: it's not the length of the rod.
>>
>> Right! The x in the LT is the POSITION of an event.
>
> x is the distance of the object (the rod) from the origin of the observer's coordinate system.

That is incorrect.
If you actually READ something about the Lorentz transforms, you will 
learn from those readings that x is not distance but POSITION or COORDINATE.

>
>> Here we are talking
>> about the POSITIONS of emissions and arrivals. For light traveling from
>> the left end of the rod to the right end of the rod, the POSITION of the
>> emission event is at x=0, and the POSITION of the arrival event is at
>> x=L. How can you dispute that???
>> For light traveling from the right end of the rod to the left end of the
>> rod, the POSITION of the emission event is at x=L and the POSITION of
>> the arrival event is at x=0. How can you dispute that???
>>
>>
>> --
>> Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables


-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#387418

Fromkenseto <setoken@att.net>
Date2016-07-07 17:54 -0700
Message-ID<29de0bf8-7ac0-4097-a9d4-a2c6b690c536@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#387401
On Thursday, July 7, 2016 at 1:24:28 PM UTC-4, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> On 7/7/2016 11:21 AM, kenseto wrote:
> > On Thursday, July 7, 2016 at 10:24:42 AM UTC-4, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> >> On 7/7/2016 8:04 AM, kenseto wrote:
> >>> No idiot....you arbitrarily assigning different values for the two different directions to get different
> >>> transit times. That's not physics.....that's assertion. In any case you don't even know what the "x" in
> >>> the term (vx/c^2) in the LT equation means....I'll  give you a hint: it's not the length of the rod.
> >>
> >> Right! The x in the LT is the POSITION of an event.
> >
> > x is the distance of the object (the rod) from the origin of the observer's coordinate system.
> 
> That is incorrect.
> If you actually READ something about the Lorentz transforms, you will 
> learn from those readings that x is not distance but POSITION or COORDINATE.

Idiot the position or coordinate is the value of the distance from the origin.

> >
> >> Here we are talking
> >> about the POSITIONS of emissions and arrivals. For light traveling from
> >> the left end of the rod to the right end of the rod, the POSITION of the
> >> emission event is at x=0, and the POSITION of the arrival event is at
> >> x=L. How can you dispute that???
> >> For light traveling from the right end of the rod to the left end of the
> >> rod, the POSITION of the emission event is at x=L and the POSITION of
> >> the arrival event is at x=0. How can you dispute that???
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables
> 
> 
> -- 
> Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#387421

Frommoroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)
Date2016-07-08 04:30 +0000
Message-ID<nlna93$vne$3@pcls7.std.com>
In reply to#387418
kenseto <setoken@att.net> writes:

>On Thursday, July 7, 2016 at 1:24:28 PM UTC-4, Odd Bodkin wrote:

>> If you actually READ something about the Lorentz transforms, you will 
>> learn from those readings that x is not distance but POSITION or COORDINATE.

>Idiot the position or coordinate is the value of the distance from the 
>origin.

Which is why if one beam of light starts out at the origin, the other
beam of light, which starts at the other end of the rod with a length of 
L, starts at x=L.  This is because its position at the start is a distance 
L from the origin.

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#387435

Fromkenseto <setoken@att.net>
Date2016-07-08 05:39 -0700
Message-ID<d36fbc83-1084-4eb9-a903-76330a698e6a@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#387421
On Friday, July 8, 2016 at 12:31:15 AM UTC-4, Michael Moroney wrote:
> kenseto <setoken@att.net> writes:
> 
> >On Thursday, July 7, 2016 at 1:24:28 PM UTC-4, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> 
> >> If you actually READ something about the Lorentz transforms, you will 
> >> learn from those readings that x is not distance but POSITION or COORDINATE.
> 
> >Idiot the position or coordinate is the value of the distance from the 
> >origin.
> 
> Which is why if one beam of light starts out at the origin, the other
> beam of light, which starts at the other end of the rod with a length of 
> L, starts at x=L.  This is because its position at the start is a distance 
> L from the origin.

The rod has two sets of markings as follows:
1. One set from zero to 5m.
2. The other set from 5 meters to zero.

If the right end observer chooses the zero to 5m markings as origin the left end observer must also chooses the zero to 5m markings as origin. No end is preferred.

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#387446

Frommoroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)
Date2016-07-08 14:24 +0000
Message-ID<nlod3q$1ns$4@pcls7.std.com>
In reply to#387435
kenseto <setoken@att.net> writes:

>On Friday, July 8, 2016 at 12:31:15 AM UTC-4, Michael Moroney wrote:
>> kenseto <setoken@att.net> writes:
>> 
>> >On Thursday, July 7, 2016 at 1:24:28 PM UTC-4, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>> 
>> >> If you actually READ something about the Lorentz transforms, you will 
>> >> learn from those readings that x is not distance but POSITION or COORDINATE.
>> 
>> >Idiot the position or coordinate is the value of the distance from the 
>> >origin.
>> 
>> Which is why if one beam of light starts out at the origin, the other
>> beam of light, which starts at the other end of the rod with a length of 
>> L, starts at x=L.  This is because its position at the start is a distance 
>> L from the origin.

>The rod has two sets of markings as follows:
>1. One set from zero to 5m.
>2. The other set from 5 meters to zero.

Now you are changing the problem from what Odd described.
He described a rod with a SINGLE set of markings, 0 meters
on one end and 5 meters on the other.  There are two walkers,
one at the 0 meter end the other at the 5 meter end.

Can you answer this trivial question? Where was the walker who was standing
at the 5 meter end before walking, standing before walking?

>No end is preferred.

Yes, it is just as easy to select as the origin the other end of the rod as
being 0, or the rod's midpoint, or any other point.  It is arbitrary.
Usually, the origin is chosen to make the math easier.  In this case the
math is easiest if you select one end of the rod as being 0.

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#387475

Fromkenseto <setoken@att.net>
Date2016-07-08 15:08 -0700
Message-ID<3209a2be-17de-4734-9908-c5cffc9748f1@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#387446
On Friday, July 8, 2016 at 10:25:47 AM UTC-4, Michael Moroney wrote:
> kenseto <setoken@att.net> writes:
> 
> >On Friday, July 8, 2016 at 12:31:15 AM UTC-4, Michael Moroney wrote:
> >> kenseto <setoken@att.net> writes:
> >> 
> >> >On Thursday, July 7, 2016 at 1:24:28 PM UTC-4, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> >> 
> >> >> If you actually READ something about the Lorentz transforms, you will 
> >> >> learn from those readings that x is not distance but POSITION or COORDINATE.
> >> 
> >> >Idiot the position or coordinate is the value of the distance from the 
> >> >origin.
> >> 
> >> Which is why if one beam of light starts out at the origin, the other
> >> beam of light, which starts at the other end of the rod with a length of 
> >> L, starts at x=L.  This is because its position at the start is a distance 
> >> L from the origin.
> 
> >The rod has two sets of markings as follows:
> >1. One set from zero to 5m.
> >2. The other set from 5 meters to zero.
> 
> Now you are changing the problem from what Odd described.
> He described a rod with a SINGLE set of markings, 0 meters
> on one end and 5 meters on the other.  There are two walkers,
> one at the 0 meter end the other at the 5 meter end.
> 
> Can you answer this trivial question? Where was the walker who was standing
> at the 5 meter end before walking, standing before walking?

That's irrelevant....both walkers will take the same transit time to reach the other end. Arbitrarily label the emission point and arrival point differently have no effect on the transit time in both directions.
> 
> >No end is preferred.
> 
> Yes, it is just as easy to select as the origin the other end of the rod as
> being 0, or the rod's midpoint, or any other point.  It is arbitrary.
> Usually, the origin is chosen to make the math easier.  In this case the
> math is easiest if you select one end of the rod as being 0.

But your claim and PD's claim that labeling emission are arrival point differently will affect the transit time in different directions is patently false.

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#387480

Frommoroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)
Date2016-07-09 03:11 +0000
Message-ID<nlpq1v$gh8$3@pcls7.std.com>
In reply to#387475
kenseto <setoken@att.net> writes:

>On Friday, July 8, 2016 at 10:25:47 AM UTC-4, Michael Moroney wrote:
>> kenseto <setoken@att.net> writes:
>> 
>> >On Friday, July 8, 2016 at 12:31:15 AM UTC-4, Michael Moroney wrote:

>> >> Which is why if one beam of light starts out at the origin, the other
>> >> beam of light, which starts at the other end of the rod with a length of 
>> >> L, starts at x=L.  This is because its position at the start is a distance 
>> >> L from the origin.
>> 
>> >The rod has two sets of markings as follows:
>> >1. One set from zero to 5m.
>> >2. The other set from 5 meters to zero.
>> 
>> Now you are changing the problem from what Odd described.
>> He described a rod with a SINGLE set of markings, 0 meters
>> on one end and 5 meters on the other.  There are two walkers,
>> one at the 0 meter end the other at the 5 meter end.

What is your justification for changing the problem?

>> Can you answer this trivial question? Where was the walker who was standing
>> at the 5 meter end before walking, standing before walking?

>That's irrelevant....

It is very relevant.  You'll never get the correct answer to this problem
if you don't even understand it!

>both walkers will take the same transit time to reach the other end.

We have to work out the problem and apply the LT to see if this is true
in different frames.
 
>Arbitrarily label the emission point and arrival point differently have 
>no effect on the transit time in both directions.

But you do have to have a consistent frame to compare things.
You want to create two entirely separate frames for the two walkers/
beams of light, but then you want to compare them as if they were one
frame. You can't do that.

>> >No end is preferred.
>> 
>> Yes, it is just as easy to select as the origin the other end of the rod as
>> being 0, or the rod's midpoint, or any other point.  It is arbitrary.
>> Usually, the origin is chosen to make the math easier.  In this case the
>> math is easiest if you select one end of the rod as being 0.

>But your claim and PD's claim

While PD has stuck his nose in here a few times, I haven't seen him
comment on this thread, so "PD's claim" is bogus.

> that labeling emission are arrival point differently will affect the 
> transit time in different directions is patently false.

Assertion is not a valid argument.

First we have to set up the two beams of light in one single (not two)
frame. Then we have to apply the LT to see what happens in a different,
relatively moving frame.

As much as you wish to assert the answer, remember that assertion is not a 
valid argument.

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