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Re: Fat books

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  Re: Fat books The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-17 11:47 -0700
    Re: Fat books Blaine <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com> - 2026-10-17 12:54 -0600
      Re: Fat books Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> - 2026-10-18 09:40 +1300
      Re: Fat books The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-17 22:33 -0700
        Re: Fat books The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-17 22:38 -0700
          Re: Fat books BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> - 2026-10-17 23:07 -0700
            Re: Fat books Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> - 2026-10-18 21:02 +1300
              Re: Fat books BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> - 2026-10-18 07:42 -0700
                Re: Fat books William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2026-10-18 16:42 -0400
                  Re: Fat books Blaine <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com> - 2026-10-18 14:48 -0600
                Re: Fat books kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2026-10-18 20:48 -0400
                  Re: Fat books BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> - 2026-10-18 18:56 -0700
                    Re: Fat books The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-18 19:53 -0700
                    Re: Fat books Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-10-18 23:39 -0400
                      Re: Fat books BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> - 2026-10-18 21:51 -0700
            Re: Fat books Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-18 11:28 +0100
              Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-18 19:33 +0800
                Re: Fat books Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-18 13:45 +0100
                  Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-20 20:35 +0800
                    Re: Fat books Torbjorn Lindgren <tl@none.invalid> - 2026-10-20 14:19 +0000
              Re: Fat books Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2026-10-18 09:04 -0700
                Re: Fat books The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-18 13:02 -0700
                  Re: Fat books The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-18 17:25 -0700
              Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-18 21:39 +0200
                Re: Fat books The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-18 17:06 -0700
                Re: Fat books Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-19 14:00 +0100
                  Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-19 21:04 +0800
                    Re: Fat books Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-10-19 18:31 +0100
                      Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-20 05:55 +0800
                        Re: Fat books Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-10-20 10:37 +0100
                      Re: Fat books Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-10-20 05:39 +0200
                      Re: Fat books Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-20 07:01 +0100
                        Re: Fat books Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-10-20 08:57 +0100
                        Re: Fat books Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-10-20 10:42 +0100
                        Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-20 20:51 +0800
                  Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-19 21:40 +0200
                    Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-20 05:58 +0800
                      Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-20 13:09 +0200
                        Re: Fat books Charles Hope <clh@candehope.me.uk> - 2026-10-20 14:00 +0000
                          Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-20 22:06 +0800
                            Re: Fat books Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-21 01:01 +0100
                              Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-21 10:38 +0800
                          Re: Fat books Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-10-20 07:18 -0700
                            Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-20 23:02 +0800
                          Re: Fat books Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-10-20 15:15 +0100
                          Re: Fat books Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-10-20 08:05 -0700
                            Re: Fat books Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-10-20 08:28 -0700
                            Re: Fat books kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2026-10-20 12:14 -0400
                              Re: Fat books Charles Hope <clh@candehope.me.uk> - 2026-10-20 19:15 +0000
                                Re: Fat books Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-10-20 12:43 -0700
                              Re: Fat books Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-10-20 15:29 -0700
                                Re: Fat books Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-10-20 18:32 -0700
                                  Re: Fat books Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> - 2026-10-22 12:02 +1300
                                    Re: Fat books The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-21 20:35 -0700
                            Re: Fat books Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-10-21 10:28 -0700
                              Re: Fat books Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-10-21 10:44 -0700
                                Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-22 01:49 +0800
                                  Re: Fat books Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-10-21 10:59 -0700
                          Re: Fat books kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2026-10-20 12:13 -0400
                          Re: Fat books Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2026-10-20 09:13 -0700
                            Re: Fat books Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-10-20 09:53 -0700
            Re: Fat books The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-18 19:50 -0700
    Re: Fat books BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> - 2026-10-17 18:59 -0700
      Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-18 19:46 +0800
        Re: Fat books William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2026-10-18 16:57 -0400
          Re: Fat books The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-18 16:48 -0700
          Re: Fat books The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-18 16:57 -0700
          Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-20 21:04 +0800
            Re: Fat books William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2026-10-20 15:09 -0400

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#674608

On 10/18/2026 3:28 AM, Hibou wrote:
> Le 18/10/2026 à 07:07, BobbieSellers a écrit :
>> On 10/17/26 22:38, The Starmaker wrote:
>>>
>>> I never read a fiction book
>>> and I certaintly never read
>>> a science fiction book
>>
>>      Nor do ever appear to even cracked
>> any book especially not even one on classical
>> physicw. [...]
> 
> 
> I plonked The Starmaker a while back, but it seems hard to believe that 
> someone has never read a work of fiction, not even as a youthful 
> experiment.
> 
Especially as it is mandatory to read some assigned fiction in almost 
all schools.

-- 
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky 
dirty old man.

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#674614

Dimensional Traveler wrote:
> 
> On 10/18/2026 3:28 AM, Hibou wrote:
> > Le 18/10/2026 à 07:07, BobbieSellers a écrit :
> >> On 10/17/26 22:38, The Starmaker wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I never read a fiction book
> >>> and I certaintly never read
> >>> a science fiction book
> >>
> >> Â Â Â Â Â Nor do ever appear to even cracked
> >> any book especially not even one on classical
> >> physicw. [...]
> >
> >
> > I plonked The Starmaker a while back, but it seems hard to believe that
> > someone has never read a work of fiction, not even as a youthful
> > experiment.
> >
> Especially as it is mandatory to read some assigned fiction in almost
> all schools.
> 
> --

By "mandatory", do you mean Homework???

i don't recall if they gave out fiction books to students to read at
home.

How does that work? Does everybody get a copy of Moby Dick to take
home??


All i know is i didn't do my homework. 

and wats wrong wit dat?


i probably read more non-fiction books than any kid in New York City!



Did you know Al Capone killed a prosecutor to stay of of jail?


dats wat i call a free get-of-jail card!


How much does it cost to bribe a judge? wats the going rate these days??


I'm putting together a price list...











-- 
The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable,
to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, say the unsayable, 
and challenge the unchallengeable.

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#674634

The Starmaker wrote:
> 
> Dimensional Traveler wrote:
> >
> > On 10/18/2026 3:28 AM, Hibou wrote:
> > > Le 18/10/2026 à 07:07, BobbieSellers a écrit :
> > >> On 10/17/26 22:38, The Starmaker wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> I never read a fiction book
> > >>> and I certaintly never read
> > >>> a science fiction book
> > >>
> > >> Â Â Â Â Â Nor do ever appear to even cracked
> > >> any book especially not even one on classical
> > >> physicw. [...]
> > >
> > >
> > > I plonked The Starmaker a while back, but it seems hard to believe that
> > > someone has never read a work of fiction, not even as a youthful
> > > experiment.
> > >
> > Especially as it is mandatory to read some assigned fiction in almost
> > all schools.
> >
> > --
> 
> By "mandatory", do you mean Homework???
> 
> i don't recall if they gave out fiction books to students to read at
> home.
> 
> How does that work? Does everybody get a copy of Moby Dick to take
> home??
> 
> All i know is i didn't do my homework.
> 
> and wats wrong wit dat?
> 
> i probably read more non-fiction books than any kid in New York City!
> 
> Did you know Al Capone killed a prosecutor to stay of of jail?
> 
> dats wat i call a free get-of-jail card!



What does 'stranger than fiction' mean??? Non-Fiction??




-- 
The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable,
to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, say the unsayable, 
and challenge the unchallengeable.

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#674613

Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote:

> Le 18/10/2026 à 07:07, BobbieSellers a écrit :
> > On 10/17/26 22:38, The Starmaker wrote:
> >>
> >> I never read a fiction book
> >> and I certaintly never read
> >> a science fiction book
> > 
> >      Nor do ever appear to even cracked
> > any book especially not even one on classical
> > physicw. [...]
> 
> 
> I plonked The Starmaker a while back, but it seems hard to believe that
> someone has never read a work of fiction, not even as a youthful experiment.
> 
> I came across some interesting material yesterday in 'L'Express' about
> the history of reading and its present decline. I had time only to scan
> it, and mean to return to it for a closer look. The argument, in several
> articles over many pages, was that reading fiction and non-fiction is
> fundamental to enlightenment and human development, allows one to escape
> oneself and see the world from other points of view. In politics, the
> book is detached from face-to-face immediacy and emotion. It is 
> infinitely patient, allows time for reflection and checking, and is the
> antidote to, for example, Trump's unstable superficiality. Reading 
> fiction for thirty minutes a day was even correlated with two years' 
> increase in life expectancy (there may be mention of a causal link, but
> I didn't see it; must look again).

Ah, yes, and it has been proven scientifically as well
that going to church every sunday inproves your life expectancy
by several years,

Jan

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#674631

J. J. Lodder wrote:
> 
> Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote:
> 
> > Le 18/10/2026 à 07:07, BobbieSellers a écrit :
> > > On 10/17/26 22:38, The Starmaker wrote:
> > >>
> > >> I never read a fiction book
> > >> and I certaintly never read
> > >> a science fiction book
> > >
> > >      Nor do ever appear to even cracked
> > > any book especially not even one on classical
> > > physicw. [...]
> >
> >
> > I plonked The Starmaker a while back, but it seems hard to believe that
> > someone has never read a work of fiction, not even as a youthful experiment.
> >
> > I came across some interesting material yesterday in 'L'Express' about
> > the history of reading and its present decline. I had time only to scan
> > it, and mean to return to it for a closer look. The argument, in several
> > articles over many pages, was that reading fiction and non-fiction is
> > fundamental to enlightenment and human development, allows one to escape
> > oneself and see the world from other points of view. In politics, the
> > book is detached from face-to-face immediacy and emotion. It is
> > infinitely patient, allows time for reflection and checking, and is the
> > antidote to, for example, Trump's unstable superficiality. Reading
> > fiction for thirty minutes a day was even correlated with two years'
> > increase in life expectancy (there may be mention of a causal link, but
> > I didn't see it; must look again).
> 
> Ah, yes, and it has been proven scientifically as well
> that going to church every sunday inproves your life expectancy
> by several years,
> 
> Jan

I don't understand why people who go to church haven't read the
bible?....is it fiction????


You as a church goer, "Do you believe the bible is the word of God?"
...they say "Yes!"

You say, "Have you read it?"

I mean, who cares what God has to say, right?


The greatest story ever told that nobody has ever read????


is there a comic book version?


 





-- 
The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable,
to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, say the unsayable, 
and challenge the unchallengeable.

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#674659

Le 18/10/2026 à 20:39, J. J. Lodder a écrit :
> Hibou wrote:
>>
>> [...] Reading
>> fiction for thirty minutes a day was even correlated with two years'
>> increase in life expectancy (there may be mention of a causal link, but
>> I didn't see it; must look again).
> 
> Ah, yes, and it has been proven scientifically as well
> that going to church every sunday inproves your life expectancy
> by several years,


Droll - well a bit - maybe.

The article in question, 'Lire les romans aide à vivre mieux et plus 
longtemps' ('L'express', 2026-10-15, pp. 48-49) speaks of numerous 
studies, but does not cite them. Some are observational and one may 
query the rigour of others. Pour ce que ça vaut - for what it's worth, 
'bibliotherapy' is supposed to help with cognitive decline, memory loss, 
shell shock, mood, depression, anxiety, and sleep.

At least some of this is plausible. Reading requires mental effort. It 
seems quite a large task to convert a mess of black squiggles¹ into 
ideas, characters, worlds, and plots that can excite fascination, 
concern, outrage, and so on (marvellous thing, the human brain). To the 
extent that using it avoids losing it, this mental exercise is likely 
beneficial.


¹Other colours of squiggle are available.

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#674660

On 10/19/2026 9:00 PM, Hibou wrote:
> Le 18/10/2026 à 20:39, J. J. Lodder a écrit :
>> Hibou wrote:
>>>
>>> [...] Reading
>>> fiction for thirty minutes a day was even correlated with two years'
>>> increase in life expectancy (there may be mention of a causal link, but
>>> I didn't see it; must look again).
>>
>> Ah, yes, and it has been proven scientifically as well
>> that going to church every sunday inproves your life expectancy
>> by several years,
> 
> 
> Droll - well a bit - maybe.
> 
> The article in question, 'Lire les romans aide à vivre mieux et plus 
> longtemps' ('L'express', 2026-10-15, pp. 48-49) speaks of numerous 
> studies, but does not cite them. Some are observational and one may 
> query the rigour of others. Pour ce que ça vaut - for what it's worth, 
> 'bibliotherapy' is supposed to help with cognitive decline, memory loss, 
> shell shock, mood, depression, anxiety, and sleep.
> 
> At least some of this is plausible. Reading requires mental effort. It 
> seems quite a large task to convert a mess of black squiggles¹ into 
> ideas, characters, worlds, and plots that can excite fascination, 
> concern, outrage, and so on (marvellous thing, the human brain). To the 
> extent that using it avoids losing it, this mental exercise is likely 
> beneficial.
> 
> 
> ¹Other colours of squiggle are available.

The counter argument, of course, is that so does competitive DOOM.  DOOM
is perhaps not the best 1st person shooter, but it's sufficient to make
a point.  Competitive DOOM seems on the surface even better at prevent-
ing cognitive decline than reading books.

I also admit to be a failure at DOOM, so I prefer to read books.  YMMV
and so forth.
-- 
Johann | email: invalid -> com | http://www.myrkraverk.com/blog/
I'm not from the Internet, I just work there. | via Easynews.com
https://bsky.app/profile/myrkraverk.bsky.social | for ( ;; ) _:;
Federated at https://fed.brid.gy/bsky/myrkraverk.bsky.social

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#674681

 Ar an naoú lá déag de mí Deireadh Fómhair, scríobh Johann Oskarsson: 

 > On 10/19/2026 9:00 PM, Hibou wrote:
 >
 > > [...] The article in question, 'Lire les romans aide à vivre mieux et plus
 > > longtemps' ('L'express', 2026-10-15, pp. 48-49) speaks of numerous
 > > studies, but does not cite them. Some are observational and one may query
 > > the rigour of others. Pour ce que ça vaut - for what it's worth,
 > > 'bibliotherapy' is supposed to help with cognitive decline, memory loss,
 > > shell shock, mood, depression, anxiety, and sleep.
 > >
 > > At least some of this is plausible. Reading requires mental effort. It seems
 > > quite a large task to convert a mess of black squiggles¹ into ideas,
 > > characters, worlds, and plots that can excite fascination, concern, outrage,
 > > and so on (marvellous thing, the human brain). To the extent that using it
 > > avoids losing it, this mental exercise is likely beneficial.
 > >
 > > ¹Other colours of squiggle are available.
 > 
 > The counter argument, of course, is that so does competitive DOOM.  DOOM
 > is perhaps not the best 1st person shooter, but it's sufficient to make
 > a point.  Competitive DOOM seems on the surface even better at prevent-
 > ing cognitive decline than reading books.
 > 
 > I also admit to be a failure at DOOM, so I prefer to read books.  YMMV
 > and so forth.

The awkward thing about both these is that the more you do something, the less
it takes out of you, the fewer incremental new neuronal connections you need
for learning in that area.

My rule of thumb on preventing cognitive decline, which is mostly the loss of
ability to retain new memories, is to constantly practice storing new memories,
learn something difficult that you’re bad at.

So a couple of months of DOOM, then Kant in German with some assessment by an
external party that you’ve understood it, then learn 500 Kanji with flashcards
until you’re happy you’ve retained them, then join Toastmasters for six months
and get to the point you and your audience are happy with your speeches, then,
then, then ...

I don’t phrase it in quite as daunting a way to patients.

-- 
‘As I sat looking up at the Guinness ad, I could never figure out /
How your man stayed up on the surfboard after fourteen pints of stout’
(C. Moore)

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#674690

On 10/20/2026 1:31 AM, Aidan Kehoe wrote:
> 
>   Ar an naoú lá déag de mí Deireadh Fómhair, scríobh Johann Oskarsson:
> 
>   > On 10/19/2026 9:00 PM, Hibou wrote:
>   >
>   > > [...] The article in question, 'Lire les romans aide à vivre mieux et plus
>   > > longtemps' ('L'express', 2026-10-15, pp. 48-49) speaks of numerous
>   > > studies, but does not cite them. Some are observational and one may query
>   > > the rigour of others. Pour ce que ça vaut - for what it's worth,
>   > > 'bibliotherapy' is supposed to help with cognitive decline, memory loss,
>   > > shell shock, mood, depression, anxiety, and sleep.
>   > >
>   > > At least some of this is plausible. Reading requires mental effort. It seems
>   > > quite a large task to convert a mess of black squiggles¹ into ideas,
>   > > characters, worlds, and plots that can excite fascination, concern, outrage,
>   > > and so on (marvellous thing, the human brain). To the extent that using it
>   > > avoids losing it, this mental exercise is likely beneficial.
>   > >
>   > > ¹Other colours of squiggle are available.
>   >
>   > The counter argument, of course, is that so does competitive DOOM.  DOOM
>   > is perhaps not the best 1st person shooter, but it's sufficient to make
>   > a point.  Competitive DOOM seems on the surface even better at prevent-
>   > ing cognitive decline than reading books.
>   >
>   > I also admit to be a failure at DOOM, so I prefer to read books.  YMMV
>   > and so forth.
> 
> The awkward thing about both these is that the more you do something, the less
> it takes out of you, the fewer incremental new neuronal connections you need
> for learning in that area.
> 
> My rule of thumb on preventing cognitive decline, which is mostly the loss of
> ability to retain new memories, is to constantly practice storing new memories,
> learn something difficult that you’re bad at.
> 
> So a couple of months of DOOM, then Kant in German with some assessment by an
> external party that you’ve understood it, then learn 500 Kanji with flashcards
> until you’re happy you’ve retained them, then join Toastmasters for six months
> and get to the point you and your audience are happy with your speeches, then,
> then, then ...
> 
> I don’t phrase it in quite as daunting a way to patients.
> 

Well, I started cryptohack recently, and have on occasion attempted to
learn Middle Egyptian -- the reason that doesn't work is well something
I'm working on [1] -- quite seriously, and have a copy of Gardiner's
Grammar on the shelf, then there's of course general cryptography, as
per my bookshelf in my profile picture, plus of course all the compiler
books.

Turns out I'm currently bad at instruction selection, and that's also
because I've never done that before, so I'm working up to that part.

I've gotten quite good at parsing with lex, yacc, and similar tools.

So, erm, yes, I also have Wheelock's Latin on the shelf, and am current-
ly on a Latin break, along with the Egyptological break.  And of course
the relevant video courses for both.  I did say I had attempted that se-
riously in the past.

Now, something else?  Not sure, and I'm not sure your other patients are
interested in ancient languages, and cryptography, and compiler con-
struction, but you can suggest all of these activities.  It's not like
learning material is missing in the world these days.

As I have an unbounded list of hobbies and projects, I'm sure I'll men-
tion new ones as I pick them up in the near-ish future, and other elder-
ly people in alt.usage.english can get inspired as well.  I mean, it's
not like I'm afraid of competition in hobbies.


Best wishes, and happy treating elderly patients!

[1] I'm not about to dump my personal medical history in alt.usage.eng-
lish.
-- 
Johann | email: invalid -> com | http://www.myrkraverk.com/blog/
I'm not from the Internet, I just work there. | via Easynews.com
https://bsky.app/profile/myrkraverk.bsky.social | for ( ;; ) _:;
Federated at https://fed.brid.gy/bsky/myrkraverk.bsky.social

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#674716

On 2026-10-19, Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson wrote:

> On 10/20/2026 1:31 AM, Aidan Kehoe wrote:
>> 
>>   Ar an naoú lá déag de mí Deireadh Fómhair, scríobh Johann Oskarsson:
>> 
>>   > On 10/19/2026 9:00 PM, Hibou wrote:
>>   >
>>   > > [...] The article in question, 'Lire les romans aide à vivre mieux et plus
>>   > > longtemps' ('L'express', 2026-10-15, pp. 48-49) speaks of numerous
>>   > > studies, but does not cite them. Some are observational and one may query
>>   > > the rigour of others. Pour ce que ça vaut - for what it's worth,
>>   > > 'bibliotherapy' is supposed to help with cognitive decline, memory loss,
>>   > > shell shock, mood, depression, anxiety, and sleep.
>>   > >
>>   > > At least some of this is plausible. Reading requires mental effort. It seems
>>   > > quite a large task to convert a mess of black squiggles¹ into ideas,
>>   > > characters, worlds, and plots that can excite fascination, concern, outrage,
>>   > > and so on (marvellous thing, the human brain). To the extent that using it
>>   > > avoids losing it, this mental exercise is likely beneficial.
>>   > >
>>   > > ¹Other colours of squiggle are available.
>>   >
>>   > The counter argument, of course, is that so does competitive DOOM.  DOOM
>>   > is perhaps not the best 1st person shooter, but it's sufficient to make
>>   > a point.  Competitive DOOM seems on the surface even better at prevent-
>>   > ing cognitive decline than reading books.
>>   >
>>   > I also admit to be a failure at DOOM, so I prefer to read books.  YMMV
>>   > and so forth.
>> 
>> The awkward thing about both these is that the more you do something, the less
>> it takes out of you, the fewer incremental new neuronal connections you need
>> for learning in that area.
>> 
>> My rule of thumb on preventing cognitive decline, which is mostly the loss of
>> ability to retain new memories, is to constantly practice storing new memories,
>> learn something difficult that you’re bad at.
>> 
>> So a couple of months of DOOM, then Kant in German with some assessment by an
>> external party that you’ve understood it, then learn 500 Kanji with flashcards
>> until you’re happy you’ve retained them, then join Toastmasters for six months
>> and get to the point you and your audience are happy with your speeches, then,
>> then, then ...
>> 
>> I don’t phrase it in quite as daunting a way to patients.
>> 
>
> Well, I started cryptohack recently,

This?

<https://cryptohack.org/>

Looks interesting, thanks.


-- 
The life of a repo man is always intense.

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#674702

On Mon, 19 Oct 2026 18:31:48 +0100, Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net>
wrote:

>The awkward thing about both these is that the more you do something, the less
>it takes out of you, the fewer incremental new neuronal connections you need
>for learning in that area.
>
>My rule of thumb on preventing cognitive decline, which is mostly the loss of
>ability to retain new memories, is to constantly practice storing new memories,
>learn something difficult that you’re bad at.
>
>So a couple of months of DOOM, then Kant in German with some assessment by an
>external party that you’ve understood it, then learn 500 Kanji with flashcards
>until you’re happy you’ve retained them, then join Toastmasters for six months
>and get to the point you and your audience are happy with your speeches, then,
>then, then ...
>
>I don’t phrase it in quite as daunting a way to patients.

I've been reading "A Rhetoric of the Unreal" by Christine Brooke-Rose,
which I think falls into the "learning something difficult that you're
bad at" category. It's an analysis of sf and fantasy from a literary
theoretical point of view, and discusses Todorov's distinction between
the uncanny, the fantastic and the marvellous. Apparently when the
weird stuff isn't supernatural, it's uncanny. If it's definitely
supernatural, it's marvellous, and if its uncertain which it is, it's
fantastic. The epitome of the fantastic is "The Turn of the Screw" by
Henry James, and to save space in an already fat book (see, I'm still
on topic) uses abbreviations like AM for "author's metatext" and NM
for "narrator's metatext" so one gets plenty of practice at storing
new memories. 


-- 
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web:  http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

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#674707

Le 19/10/2026 à 18:31, Aidan Kehoe a écrit :
> 
> My rule of thumb on preventing cognitive decline, which is mostly the loss of
> ability to retain new memories, is to constantly practice storing new memories,
> learn something difficult that you’re bad at.
> 
> So a couple of months of DOOM, then Kant in German with some assessment by an
> external party that you’ve understood it, then learn 500 Kanji with flashcards
> until you’re happy you’ve retained them, then join Toastmasters for six months
> and get to the point you and your audience are happy with your speeches, then,
> then, then ...
> 
> I don’t phrase it in quite as daunting a way to patients.


That's a good point, and a troublesome one.

Perhaps there's a parallel with physical fitness. Is it worth extending 
one's life by 10% by spending 10% of it in the gym, i.e. doing something 
that one may not want to do and is boring? (Answer, based on these 
figures, which I've just conjured out of the air - no: 110% x 90% = 99%, 
a small net loss.)

Is it worth staving off mental decrepitude by spending time learning 
things one doesn't care two hoots about? (I acknowledge I have a problem 
in this respect - I've always found it easy to apply myself to things I 
want to do, devilishly difficult to do what doesn't interest me. I feel 
the answer is to integrate beneficial activities into what one has to do 
- eschew the car and the bus, and walk instead; shun the lift and 
escalator and take the stairs; make a two-fingered gesture to AI, do the 
research and thinking yourself….)

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#674709

 Ar an fichiú lá de mí Deireadh Fómhair, scríobh Hibou: 

 > Le 19/10/2026 à 18:31, Aidan Kehoe a écrit :
 > >
 > > My rule of thumb on preventing cognitive decline, which is mostly the loss
 > > of ability to retain new memories, is to constantly practice storing new
 > > memories, learn something difficult that you’re bad at.
 > >
 > > So a couple of months of DOOM, then Kant in German with some assessment by
 > > an external party that you’ve understood it, then learn 500 Kanji with
 > > flashcards until you’re happy you’ve retained them, then join Toastmasters
 > > for six months and get to the point you and your audience are happy with
 > > your speeches, then, then, then ...
 > >
 > > I don’t phrase it in quite as daunting a way to patients.
 > 
 > That's a good point, and a troublesome one.
 > 
 > Perhaps there's a parallel with physical fitness.

For me there is.

The research isn’t there (yet) regarding my above rule of thumb. There’s strong
evidence that higher IQ correlates with lower levels of dementia, which is not
the same thing as saying that higher IQ is protective against cognitive decline
(since if you’re starting from a higher baseline, more cognitive decline will
be needed for a dementia diagnosis.)

 > Is it worth extending
 > one's life by 10% by spending 10% of it in the gym, i.e. doing something
 > that one may not want to do and is boring? (Answer, based on these figures,
 > which I've just conjured out of the air - no: 110% x 90% = 99%, a small net
 > loss.)

As well as extending the life span, on average you likely will improve your
quality of life at the end; if you prevent diabetes by exercising, if you keep
down your blood pressure and prevent a stroke, you won’t get stinking diabetic
foot infections and you’ll continue to be able to walk.

I don’t practice what I preach but I have enough podcasts that I want to listen
to that driving long distances is not a chore. If I exercise (and most of the
health benefit from exercise is from a half-hour walk a day, fairly
unambitious), I listen to the podcasts and I’m not bored.

 > Is it worth staving off mental decrepitude by spending time learning things one
 > doesn't care two hoots about? (I acknowledge I have a problem in this respect -
 > I've always found it easy to apply myself to things I want to do, devilishly
 > difficult to do what doesn't interest me. I feel the answer is to integrate
 > beneficial activities into what one has to do - eschew the car and the bus, and
 > walk instead; shun the lift and escalator and take the stairs; make a
 > two-fingered gesture to AI, do the research and thinking yourself….)

Yep, that’s a good approach to life.

-- 
‘As I sat looking up at the Guinness ad, I could never figure out /
How your man stayed up on the surfboard after fourteen pints of stout’
(C. Moore)

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#674715

On 2026-10-20, Hibou wrote:

> Le 19/10/2026 à 18:31, Aidan Kehoe a écrit :
>> 
>> My rule of thumb on preventing cognitive decline, which is mostly the loss of
>> ability to retain new memories, is to constantly practice storing new memories,
>> learn something difficult that you’re bad at.
>> 
>> So a couple of months of DOOM, then Kant in German with some assessment by an
>> external party that you’ve understood it, then learn 500 Kanji with flashcards
>> until you’re happy you’ve retained them, then join Toastmasters for six months
>> and get to the point you and your audience are happy with your speeches, then,
>> then, then ...
>> 
>> I don’t phrase it in quite as daunting a way to patients.
>
>
> That's a good point, and a troublesome one.
>
> Perhaps there's a parallel with physical fitness. Is it worth extending 
> one's life by 10% by spending 10% of it in the gym, i.e. doing something 
> that one may not want to do and is boring? (Answer, based on these 
> figures, which I've just conjured out of the air - no: 110% x 90% = 99%, 
> a small net loss.)

It's not just about lifespan, but about healthspan.

   But while lifespans have grown, healthspans have not kept up. Many
   people now live a decade or more dealing with multiple chronic
   conditions such as heart disease, diabetes, chronic lung disease,
   arthritis, and cognitive decline. The result is a wide, often
   painful gap between how long people live and how long they live
   well.

<https://www.health.harvard.edu/healthy-aging-and-longevity/lifespan-vs-healthspan-why-how-you-age-matters-more-than-how-long-you-live>


> Is it worth staving off mental decrepitude by spending time learning 
> things one doesn't care two hoots about? (I acknowledge I have a problem 
> in this respect - I've always found it easy to apply myself to things I 
> want to do, devilishly difficult to do what doesn't interest me. I feel 
> the answer is to integrate beneficial activities into what one has to do 
> - eschew the car and the bus, and walk instead; shun the lift and 
> escalator and take the stairs; make a two-fingered gesture to AI, do the 
> research and thinking yourself….)

Those are all good ideas, but some strength/resistance work is also
necessary to maintain muscle mass & bone density, both of which are
essential for good physical function later in life.


-- 
the purple piper plays his tune
the choir softly sing
three lullabies in an ancient tongue

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#674736

On 10/20/2026 2:01 PM, Hibou wrote:
> Le 19/10/2026 à 18:31, Aidan Kehoe a écrit :
>>
>> My rule of thumb on preventing cognitive decline, which is mostly the 
>> loss of
>> ability to retain new memories, is to constantly practice storing new 
>> memories,
>> learn something difficult that you’re bad at.
>>
>> So a couple of months of DOOM, then Kant in German with some 
>> assessment by an
>> external party that you’ve understood it, then learn 500 Kanji with 
>> flashcards
>> until you’re happy you’ve retained them, then join Toastmasters for 
>> six months
>> and get to the point you and your audience are happy with your 
>> speeches, then,
>> then, then ...
>>
>> I don’t phrase it in quite as daunting a way to patients.
> 
> 
> That's a good point, and a troublesome one.
> 
> Perhaps there's a parallel with physical fitness. Is it worth extending 
> one's life by 10% by spending 10% of it in the gym, i.e. doing something 
> that one may not want to do and is boring? (Answer, based on these 
> figures, which I've just conjured out of the air - no: 110% x 90% = 99%, 
> a small net loss.)
> 
> Is it worth staving off mental decrepitude by spending time learning 
> things one doesn't care two hoots about? (I acknowledge I have a problem 
> in this respect - I've always found it easy to apply myself to things I 
> want to do, devilishly difficult to do what doesn't interest me. I feel 
> the answer is to integrate beneficial activities into what one has to do 
> - eschew the car and the bus, and walk instead; shun the lift and 
> escalator and take the stairs; make a two-fingered gesture to AI, do the 
> research and thinking yourself….)

Dear Hibou,

Before I go and read the answers by the medical professionals of alt.
usage.english, I'm going to address the health and life expectancy
thing.

The first question you should be asking is /how long do you expect to
live/?  And in this day and age, life expectancy is in the 80+ for most
humans [1] and people in their middle age can then expect to be miser-
able for 30 or more years if they don't take their health seriously.

I don't know about you, but I prefer to work on my health in the here
and now, to avoid being miserable in the future.  And much of the health
problems we face in old age could have been entirely avoided with better
health focus in prior decades.  This is something I learned the hard way
just recently.


Best wishes, and happy health!

[1] Give or take a medical emergency or two.
-- 
Johann | email: invalid -> com | http://www.myrkraverk.com/blog/
I'm not from the Internet, I just work there. | via Easynews.com
https://bsky.app/profile/myrkraverk.bsky.social | for ( ;; ) _:;
Federated at https://fed.brid.gy/bsky/myrkraverk.bsky.social

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#674684

Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote:

> Le 18/10/2026 à 20:39, J. J. Lodder a écrit :
> > Hibou wrote:
> >>
> >> [...] Reading
> >> fiction for thirty minutes a day was even correlated with two years'
> >> increase in life expectancy (there may be mention of a causal link, but
> >> I didn't see it; must look again).
> > 
> > Ah, yes, and it has been proven scientifically as well
> > that going to church every sunday inproves your life expectancy
> > by several years,
> 
> 
> Droll - well a bit - maybe.

It is a classical example of not correcting for bias.
(to obtain a wanted result)
The parishioners going to church every sunday
will be in better health (on average)
than those who stay at home.

> The article in question, 'Lire les romans aide à vivre mieux et plus 
> longtemps' ('L'express', 2026-10-15, pp. 48-49) speaks of numerous 
> studies, but does not cite them. Some are observational and one may 
> query the rigour of others. Pour ce que ça vaut - for what it's worth,
> 'bibliotherapy' is supposed to help with cognitive decline, memory loss,
> shell shock, mood, depression, anxiety, and sleep.
> 
> At least some of this is plausible. Reading requires mental effort. It
> seems quite a large task to convert a mess of black squiggles? into 
> ideas, characters, worlds, and plots that can excite fascination, 
> concern, outrage, and so on (marvellous thing, the human brain). To the
> extent that using it avoids losing it, this mental exercise is likely
> beneficial.

But no doubt the same kind of bias aplies,

Jan

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#674691

On 10/20/2026 3:40 AM, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> It is a classical example of not correcting for bias.
> (to obtain a wanted result)
> The parishioners going to church every sunday
> will be in better health (on average)
> than those who stay at home.

Don't let the bias bite you.  For some of them -- not all of course --
it's because they go to church every Sunday, and probably attend other
social related activities -- many of which are tied to the local church.

I mean, it's not like you can just magically use the word /bias/ and
claim it doesn't work for some people.
-- 
Johann | email: invalid -> com | http://www.myrkraverk.com/blog/
I'm not from the Internet, I just work there. | via Easynews.com
https://bsky.app/profile/myrkraverk.bsky.social | for ( ;; ) _:;
Federated at https://fed.brid.gy/bsky/myrkraverk.bsky.social

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#674727

Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> wrote:

> On 10/20/2026 3:40 AM, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> > It is a classical example of not correcting for bias.
> > (to obtain a wanted result)
> > The parishioners going to church every sunday
> > will be in better health (on average)
> > than those who stay at home.
> 
> Don't let the bias bite you.  For some of them -- not all of course --
> it's because they go to church every Sunday, and probably attend other
> social related activities -- many of which are tied to the local church.
> 
> I mean, it's not like you can just magically use the word /bias/ and
> claim it doesn't work for some people.

Nonsense. The 'scientific' proof from statistics
that regularly going to chuch on sundays increases your life expectancy
is bunk.
It is a textbook example of how not to do statistics,

Jan

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#674738

On 20/10/2026 12:09, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> wrote:
> 
>> On 10/20/2026 3:40 AM, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>> It is a classical example of not correcting for bias.
>>> (to obtain a wanted result)
>>> The parishioners going to church every sunday
>>> will be in better health (on average)
>>> than those who stay at home.
>>
>> Don't let the bias bite you.  For some of them -- not all of course --
>> it's because they go to church every Sunday, and probably attend other
>> social related activities -- many of which are tied to the local church.
>>
>> I mean, it's not like you can just magically use the word /bias/ and
>> claim it doesn't work for some people.
> 
> Nonsense. The 'scientific' proof from statistics
> that regularly going to chuch on sundays increases your life expectancy
> is bunk.
> It is a textbook example of how not to do statistics,
> 
> Jan
  I was taught to e very careful about using statistics. In the years 
following WW2, you could see an increase in the number of fridges in 
domestic use,  There was a similar increase in burglaries.  In fact, 
there was a straight line correlation  between fridges and burglaries.
Did one cause the other??

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#674739

On 10/20/2026 10:00 PM, Charles Hope wrote:
> On 20/10/2026 12:09, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>> Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On 10/20/2026 3:40 AM, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>>> It is a classical example of not correcting for bias.
>>>> (to obtain a wanted result)
>>>> The parishioners going to church every sunday
>>>> will be in better health (on average)
>>>> than those who stay at home.
>>>
>>> Don't let the bias bite you.  For some of them -- not all of course --
>>> it's because they go to church every Sunday, and probably attend other
>>> social related activities -- many of which are tied to the local church.
>>>
>>> I mean, it's not like you can just magically use the word /bias/ and
>>> claim it doesn't work for some people.
>>
>> Nonsense. The 'scientific' proof from statistics
>> that regularly going to chuch on sundays increases your life expectancy
>> is bunk.
>> It is a textbook example of how not to do statistics,
>>
>> Jan
>   I was taught to e very careful about using statistics. In the years 
> following WW2, you could see an increase in the number of fridges in 
> domestic use,  There was a similar increase in burglaries.  In fact, 
> there was a straight line correlation  between fridges and burglaries.
> Did one cause the other??

There are some possibilities, so let's think this through.  The people
installing the fridges also engaged in burglaries.  The people buying
the fridges were well-to-do and prime targets for burglaries.  Then see-
ing the fridge getting installed gave the local hooligans the idea.

I guess the biggest factor is people being well-to-do makes them prime
targets for burglaries.  Especially if they don't have security -- eith-
er guards, or nowadays, security cameras.

For that matter, I can be convinced some of the /burglars caught on sec-
urity cameras/ were staged either by the company selling them, or the
people who own the home.  After all, what do bored suburbanites get up
to?

So, just because there's a correlation doesn't mean there isn't a caus-
ation; it just may not be obvious from the data at hand.
-- 
Johann | email: invalid -> com | http://www.myrkraverk.com/blog/
I'm not from the Internet, I just work there. | via Easynews.com
https://bsky.app/profile/myrkraverk.bsky.social | for ( ;; ) _:;
Federated at https://fed.brid.gy/bsky/myrkraverk.bsky.social

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