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Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #383919 > unrolled thread
| Started by | kenseto <setoken@att.net> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2016-05-21 14:38 -0700 |
| Last post | 2016-05-23 18:20 +0200 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 86 — 13 participants |
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Questions for SRians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-21 14:38 -0700
Re: Questions for SRians Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-05-21 20:56 -0500
Re: Questions for SRians JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2016-05-22 10:54 -0700
Re: Questions for SRians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-23 09:35 -0700
Re: Questions for SRians Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-05-24 08:40 -0500
Re: Questions for SRians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-24 07:21 -0700
Re: Questions for SRians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-24 09:30 -0500
Re: Questions for SRians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-24 07:28 -0700
Re: Questions for SRians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-24 09:54 -0500
Re: Questions for SRians moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-05-24 16:55 +0000
Re: Questions for SRians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-24 13:55 -0500
Re: Questions for SRians Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-24 14:59 -0700
Re: Questions for SRians rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2016-05-24 09:19 -0700
Re: Questions for SRians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-24 12:14 -0700
Re: Questions for SRians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-24 14:18 -0500
Re: Questions for SRians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-25 06:50 -0700
Re: Questions for SRians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-25 09:40 -0500
Re: Questions for SRians rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2016-05-24 13:00 -0700
Re: Questions for SRians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-25 06:40 -0700
Re: Questions for SRians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-25 08:46 -0500
Re: Questions for SRians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-25 07:06 -0700
Re: Questions for SRians moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-05-25 14:51 +0000
Re: Questions for SRians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-25 13:44 -0700
Re: Questions for SRians rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2016-05-25 14:05 -0700
Re: Questions for SRians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-26 04:51 -0700
Re: Questions for SRians rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2016-05-26 07:29 -0700
Re: Questions for SRians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-26 08:33 -0700
Re: Questions for SRians rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2016-05-26 08:53 -0700
Re: Questions for SRians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-26 09:23 -0700
Re: Questions for SRians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-26 11:56 -0500
Re: Questions for SRians rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2016-05-26 13:01 -0700
Re: Questions for SRians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-25 16:12 -0500
Re: Questions for SRians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-26 05:14 -0700
Re: Questions for SRians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-26 09:00 -0500
Re: Questions for SRians moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-05-25 22:45 +0000
Re: Questions for SRians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-26 06:16 -0700
Re: Questions for SRians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-26 09:23 -0500
Re: Questions for SRians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-26 08:19 -0700
Re: Questions for SRians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-26 10:25 -0500
Re: Questions for SRians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-26 09:19 -0700
Re: Questions for SRians rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2016-05-26 12:59 -0700
Re: Questions for SRians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-26 14:40 -0700
Re: Questions for SRians rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2016-05-26 14:59 -0700
Re: Questions for SRians moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-05-26 14:43 +0000
Re: Questions for SRians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-26 08:10 -0700
Re: Questions for SRians rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2016-05-26 08:21 -0700
Re: Questions for SRians moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-05-26 16:26 +0000
Re: Questions for SRians "David (Time Lord) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-05-26 09:42 -0700
Re: Questions for SRians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-26 11:57 -0500
Re: Questions for SRians benj <nobodyxx@gmail> - 2016-05-26 13:28 -0400
Re: Questions for SRians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-26 13:33 -0500
Re: Questions for SRians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-26 14:16 -0700
Re: Questions for SRians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-26 16:54 -0500
Re: Questions for SRians moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-05-26 17:36 +0000
Re: Questions for SRians RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-27 10:50 -0700
Re: Questions for SRians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-27 14:48 -0500
Re: Questions for SRians RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-27 14:51 -0700
Re: Questions for SRians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-27 17:03 -0500
Re: Questions for SRians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-26 13:53 -0700
Re: Questions for SRians rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2016-05-26 14:06 -0700
Re: Questions for SRians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-26 14:57 -0700
Re: Questions for SRians moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-05-27 02:46 +0000
Re: Questions for SRians RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-26 10:11 -0700
Re: Questions for SRians Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-05-27 11:17 -0500
Re: Questions for SRians RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-28 16:11 -0700
Re: Questions for SRians rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2016-05-25 08:22 -0700
Re: Questions for SRians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-25 08:46 -0700
Re: Questions for SRians rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2016-05-25 09:15 -0700
Re: Questions for SRians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-25 13:35 -0700
Re: Questions for SRians rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2016-05-25 14:02 -0700
Re: Questions for SRians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-25 11:35 -0500
Re: Questions for SRians Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-05-25 11:41 -0500
Re: Questions for SRians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-25 08:59 -0700
Re: Questions for SRians rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2016-05-25 09:20 -0700
Re: Questions for SRians Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-05-25 21:48 -0500
Re: Questions for SRians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-26 06:09 -0700
Re: Questions for SRians wugi <brol@brol.be> - 2016-05-25 00:04 +0200
Re: Questions for SRians Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2016-05-24 16:47 -0700
Re: Questions for SRians Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-05-27 12:03 -0500
Re: Questions for SRians Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2016-05-29 14:34 -0700
Re: Questions for SRians Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-05-29 22:04 -0500
Re: Questions for SRians Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2016-05-29 22:26 -0700
Re: Questions for SRians Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-06-03 10:42 -0500
Re: Questions for SRians Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@hotspam.not> - 2016-05-22 14:20 +0200
Re: Questions for SRians kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-05-23 08:37 -0700
Re: Questions for SRians Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@hotspam.not> - 2016-05-23 18:20 +0200
Page 3 of 5 — ← Prev page 1 2 [3] 4 5 Next page →
| From | rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-26 12:59 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <6d440a08-6c8e-4f08-b981-a3b443974ee7@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #384291 |
On Thursday, May 26, 2016 at 12:19:45 PM UTC-4, kenseto wrote: Since you ignore the question, that is indicative that I have stumped you and that you realize that you were wrong...but you are just too much of a coward to admit it. So I win, again, just like I won over you at the NPA. Btw, its a new organization now... want me to include you into its new database? > The accumulated mileage and route length for each car are known.... > no need for calculation. The distance from A to B is 800 mi. You drive a car from A to B at speed 50 mi/h. What will the odometer read upon arrival? Unlike you, I'm not afraid to answer: I claim that its 800 miles. Do you agree? Now another driver does the route but at speed 100 mi/h. What will the odometer read? I say, its 800 miles again. Agree? > The different speed in combination with the known path-lengths > are the cause of the difference in odometer readings. The distance between A&B is 800 miles for both drivers as posited. I concluded that both odometers of the two drivers will therefore indicate 800 miles, no matter their speed from A to B. Agree to that?
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| From | kenseto <setoken@att.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-26 14:40 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <b46496a7-4ead-4b6c-95c7-2d57e30e406a@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #384328 |
On Thursday, May 26, 2016 at 3:59:37 PM UTC-4, rotchm wrote: > On Thursday, May 26, 2016 at 12:19:45 PM UTC-4, kenseto wrote: > > Since you ignore the question, that is indicative that I have stumped you and that you realize that you were wrong...but you are just too much of a coward to admit it. So I win, again, just like I won over you at the NPA. Btw, its a new organization now... want me to include you into its new database? No thanks David. I'll let you and your dad take all the glory. > > > The accumulated mileage and route length for each car are known.... > > no need for calculation. > > The distance from A to B is 800 mi. You drive a car from A to B at speed 50 mi/h. What will the odometer read upon arrival? Unlike you, I'm not afraid to answer: I claim that its 800 miles. Do you agree? Idiot....Tom Roberts talking about two cars follows two different paths departing from Chicago simultaneously and arriving at NY SIMULTANEOUSLY. I said that the difference in odometer readings is due to the different path-lengths and the different speeds of the cars. Notice that the only way that both cars can arrive at NY simultaneously is that they are traveling at different speeds...the car that travelled the longer path must travel at a higher speed. Gee you are so stupid for being the president of the new NPA. > > Now another driver does the route but at speed 100 mi/h. What will the odometer read? I say, its 800 miles again. Agree? > > > > The different speed in combination with the known path-lengths > > are the cause of the difference in odometer readings. > > The distance between A&B is 800 miles for both drivers as posited. I concluded that both odometers of the two drivers will therefore indicate 800 miles, no matter their speed from A to B. Agree to that?
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| From | rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-26 14:59 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <2845dc27-acac-4b86-bea4-58940c601bf4@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #384341 |
On Thursday, May 26, 2016 at 5:40:59 PM UTC-4, kenseto wrote: > No thanks David. Whoever that is. > I'll let you and your dad take all the glory. "dad" ? Who is that? Anw, apparently he is working on a new Theory he invented, called Model Mechanics. I will keep you posted on his progress if your interested. > Idiot....Tom Roberts talking about two cars follows two different > paths departing from Chicago simultaneously and arriving at NY > SIMULTANEOUSLY. There you go changing the subject again... anw, lets see where this will lead. > I said that the difference in odometer readings is due to the > different path-lengths No. You said, and I quote "the different distances registered on the two odometers are not due to different path length..." > and the different speeds of the cars. And we are trying to figure out why the speeds have anything to do with it. > Notice that the only way that both cars can arrive at NY simultaneously > is that they are traveling at different speeds...the car that travelled > the longer path must travel at a higher speed. Correct, and we all agreed to that. where we dont agree with you is that the speed influences the odometer readings. > Gee you are so stupid for being the president of the new NPA. What the h*ll are you talking about?? > > The distance between A&B is 800 miles for both drivers as posited. I > > concluded that both odometers of the two drivers will therefore > > indicate 800 miles, no matter their speed from A to B. Agree to that? Still no answer?
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| From | moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-26 14:43 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <ni722f$g2b$1@pcls7.std.com> |
| In reply to | #384275 |
kenseto <setoken@att.net> writes: >On Wednesday, May 25, 2016 at 6:46:23 PM UTC-4, Michael Moroney wrote: >> kenseto <setoken@att.net> writes: >> >> >On Wednesday, May 25, 2016 at 10:52:19 AM UTC-4, Michael Moroney wrote: >> >> kenseto <setoken@att.net> writes: >> >> >> >> > The different odometer readings would be due to the different speeds. >> >> >> >> Ken, odometers measure distance, not speed. >> >> The odometers of all cars following a particular path will read the same, >> >> no matter what their speed. >> >> >We were talking about two different paths and the cars arrive in NY >> >simultaneously. >> >> What difference does that make? Odometers measure distance, not speed. >> >> We have one car following a certain path at 20 mph. When it reaches its >> destination, its odometer has a certain value. >> >> We have another car that follows the exact same path as the first car, >> except it travels at 100 mph. When it reaches its destination, will its >> odometer measure the same as that of the first car? Why or why not? >> >> We have a bunch more cars following the exact same path, all with different >> speeds. When they reach the destination, will their odometers measure the >> same as that of the first car? Why or why not? >> >> You claim "The different odometer readings would be due to the different >> speeds." Here we have many different cars all following the same path at >> different speeds. Do you actually claim the odometer values will be >> different due to the different speeds? >Sigh....if the cars travel different paths the different odometer readings >when they meet again is due to their different speeds. Can't you read, Ken? I just got through describing how a bunch of cars all followed the exact same path but at different speeds and asked about their odometer readings, and you go off talking about cars taking different paths! Again: Do cars all taking the exact same path but at different speeds record the same odometer reading, which would mean the odometer reading doesn't depend on speed? Why or why not?
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| From | kenseto <setoken@att.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-26 08:10 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <16a8df4d-83b6-4bbf-8480-ec9b71299eb4@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #384280 |
On Thursday, May 26, 2016 at 10:44:05 AM UTC-4, Michael Moroney wrote: > kenseto <setoken@att.net> writes: > > >On Wednesday, May 25, 2016 at 6:46:23 PM UTC-4, Michael Moroney wrote: > >> kenseto <setoken@att.net> writes: > >> > >> >On Wednesday, May 25, 2016 at 10:52:19 AM UTC-4, Michael Moroney wrote: > >> >> kenseto <setoken@att.net> writes: > >> >> > >> >> > The different odometer readings would be due to the different speeds. > >> >> > >> >> Ken, odometers measure distance, not speed. > >> >> The odometers of all cars following a particular path will read the same, > >> >> no matter what their speed. > >> > >> >We were talking about two different paths and the cars arrive in NY > >> >simultaneously. > >> > >> What difference does that make? Odometers measure distance, not speed. > >> > >> We have one car following a certain path at 20 mph. When it reaches its > >> destination, its odometer has a certain value. > >> > >> We have another car that follows the exact same path as the first car, > >> except it travels at 100 mph. When it reaches its destination, will its > >> odometer measure the same as that of the first car? Why or why not? > >> > >> We have a bunch more cars following the exact same path, all with different > >> speeds. When they reach the destination, will their odometers measure the > >> same as that of the first car? Why or why not? > >> > >> You claim "The different odometer readings would be due to the different > >> speeds." Here we have many different cars all following the same path at > >> different speeds. Do you actually claim the odometer values will be > >> different due to the different speeds? > > >Sigh....if the cars travel different paths the different odometer readings > >when they meet again is due to their different speeds. > > Can't you read, Ken? I just got through describing how a bunch of cars all > followed the exact same path but at different speeds and asked about their > odometer readings, and you go off talking about cars taking different paths! Idiot.....we were talking above two car going from Chicago to NY via different paths. Gee you are stupid. > > Again: Do cars all taking the exact same path but at different speeds record > the same odometer reading, which would mean the odometer reading doesn't > depend on speed? Why or why not?
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| From | rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-26 08:21 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <2a9cd127-18a9-4b58-bd3e-f4d101236315@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #384282 |
On Thursday, May 26, 2016 at 11:10:22 AM UTC-4, kenseto wrote: > Idiot.....we were talking above two car going from Chicago to NY via > different paths. Gee you are stupid. No we are not. Here, We are talking about cars TAKING THE SAME PATH. So, if cars take the same path, but at different speeds, do their odometers indicate the same thing? > > Again: Do cars all taking the exact same path but at different speeds record > > the same odometer reading, which would mean the odometer reading doesn't > > depend on speed? Why or why not? Still no answer?
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| From | moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-26 16:26 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <ni7843$l20$4@pcls7.std.com> |
| In reply to | #384282 |
kenseto <setoken@att.net> writes: >On Thursday, May 26, 2016 at 10:44:05 AM UTC-4, Michael Moroney wrote: >> kenseto <setoken@att.net> writes: >> >> >On Wednesday, May 25, 2016 at 6:46:23 PM UTC-4, Michael Moroney wrote: >> >> >> >> We have one car following a certain path at 20 mph. When it reaches its >> >> destination, its odometer has a certain value. >> >> >> >> We have another car that follows the exact same path as the first car, >> >> except it travels at 100 mph. When it reaches its destination, will its >> >> odometer measure the same as that of the first car? Why or why not? >> >> >> >> We have a bunch more cars following the exact same path, all with different >> >> speeds. When they reach the destination, will their odometers measure the >> >> same as that of the first car? Why or why not? >> >> >> >> You claim "The different odometer readings would be due to the different >> >> speeds." Here we have many different cars all following the same path at >> >> different speeds. Do you actually claim the odometer values will be >> >> different due to the different speeds? >> >> >Sigh....if the cars travel different paths the different odometer readings >> >when they meet again is due to their different speeds. >> >> Can't you read, Ken? I just got through describing how a bunch of cars all >> followed the exact same path but at different speeds and asked about their >> odometer readings, and you go off talking about cars taking different paths! >Idiot.....we were talking above two car going from Chicago to NY via >different paths. Gee you are stupid. No, we are talking about different cars following the _same_ path from Chicago to New York. We are trying to resolve that kooky claim of yours "The different odometer readings would be due to the different speeds." by showing you how odometers measure distance, not speed, with two thought experiments. Thought experiment 1: Multiple cars take the exact same path from Chicago to NY but at different speeds, we compare the odometer readings. 2: Multiple cars take different paths from Chicago to NY, but all go at the same speed. Two experiments, each with only one parameter being varied in each. From the results of these experiments, we will know whether odometer readings depend on distance or speed. >> Again: Do cars all taking the exact same path but at different speeds record >> the same odometer reading, which would mean the odometer reading doesn't >> depend on speed? Why or why not? Why won't you answer this?
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| From | "David (Time Lord) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-26 09:42 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <91e34110-446b-4100-979e-b1cddbbc8997@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #384293 |
Are the cars traveling at relativistic speeds ???
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| From | Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-26 11:57 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <ni79u0$1jp9$2@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #384293 |
On 5/26/2016 11:26 AM, Michael Moroney wrote: > kenseto <setoken@att.net> writes: > >> On Thursday, May 26, 2016 at 10:44:05 AM UTC-4, Michael Moroney wrote: >>> kenseto <setoken@att.net> writes: >>> >>>> On Wednesday, May 25, 2016 at 6:46:23 PM UTC-4, Michael Moroney wrote: >>>>> >>>>> We have one car following a certain path at 20 mph. When it reaches its >>>>> destination, its odometer has a certain value. >>>>> >>>>> We have another car that follows the exact same path as the first car, >>>>> except it travels at 100 mph. When it reaches its destination, will its >>>>> odometer measure the same as that of the first car? Why or why not? >>>>> >>>>> We have a bunch more cars following the exact same path, all with different >>>>> speeds. When they reach the destination, will their odometers measure the >>>>> same as that of the first car? Why or why not? >>>>> >>>>> You claim "The different odometer readings would be due to the different >>>>> speeds." Here we have many different cars all following the same path at >>>>> different speeds. Do you actually claim the odometer values will be >>>>> different due to the different speeds? >>> >>>> Sigh....if the cars travel different paths the different odometer readings >>>> when they meet again is due to their different speeds. >>> >>> Can't you read, Ken? I just got through describing how a bunch of cars all >>> followed the exact same path but at different speeds and asked about their >>> odometer readings, and you go off talking about cars taking different paths! > >> Idiot.....we were talking above two car going from Chicago to NY via >> different paths. Gee you are stupid. > > No, we are talking about different cars following the _same_ path from > Chicago to New York. We are trying to resolve that kooky claim of yours > "The different odometer readings would be due to the different speeds." > by showing you how odometers measure distance, not speed, with two > thought experiments. Thought experiment 1: Multiple cars take the exact > same path from Chicago to NY but at different speeds, we compare the > odometer readings. 2: Multiple cars take different paths from Chicago to > NY, but all go at the same speed. Two experiments, each with only one > parameter being varied in each. From the results of these experiments, we > will know whether odometer readings depend on distance or speed. > >>> Again: Do cars all taking the exact same path but at different speeds record >>> the same odometer reading, which would mean the odometer reading doesn't >>> depend on speed? Why or why not? > > Why won't you answer this? > He is clearly being nonresponsive. Therefore you have won the argument. Ken HATES losing an argument. Makes him sick to the stomach. -- Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables
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| From | benj <nobodyxx@gmail> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-26 13:28 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <57473228$0$48304$c3e8da3$88b277c5@news.astraweb.com> |
| In reply to | #384297 |
On 05/26/2016 12:57 PM, Odd Bodkin wrote: > On 5/26/2016 11:26 AM, Michael Moroney wrote: >> kenseto <setoken@att.net> writes: >> >>> On Thursday, May 26, 2016 at 10:44:05 AM UTC-4, Michael Moroney wrote: >>>> kenseto <setoken@att.net> writes: >>>> >>>>> On Wednesday, May 25, 2016 at 6:46:23 PM UTC-4, Michael Moroney wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> We have one car following a certain path at 20 mph. When it >>>>>> reaches its >>>>>> destination, its odometer has a certain value. >>>>>> >>>>>> We have another car that follows the exact same path as the first >>>>>> car, >>>>>> except it travels at 100 mph. When it reaches its destination, >>>>>> will its >>>>>> odometer measure the same as that of the first car? Why or why not? >>>>>> >>>>>> We have a bunch more cars following the exact same path, all with >>>>>> different >>>>>> speeds. When they reach the destination, will their odometers >>>>>> measure the >>>>>> same as that of the first car? Why or why not? >>>>>> >>>>>> You claim "The different odometer readings would be due to the >>>>>> different >>>>>> speeds." Here we have many different cars all following the same >>>>>> path at >>>>>> different speeds. Do you actually claim the odometer values will be >>>>>> different due to the different speeds? >>>> >>>>> Sigh....if the cars travel different paths the different odometer >>>>> readings >>>>> when they meet again is due to their different speeds. >>>> >>>> Can't you read, Ken? I just got through describing how a bunch of >>>> cars all >>>> followed the exact same path but at different speeds and asked about >>>> their >>>> odometer readings, and you go off talking about cars taking >>>> different paths! >> >>> Idiot.....we were talking above two car going from Chicago to NY via >>> different paths. Gee you are stupid. >> >> No, we are talking about different cars following the _same_ path from >> Chicago to New York. We are trying to resolve that kooky claim of yours >> "The different odometer readings would be due to the different speeds." >> by showing you how odometers measure distance, not speed, with two >> thought experiments. Thought experiment 1: Multiple cars take the exact >> same path from Chicago to NY but at different speeds, we compare the >> odometer readings. 2: Multiple cars take different paths from Chicago to >> NY, but all go at the same speed. Two experiments, each with only one >> parameter being varied in each. From the results of these >> experiments, we >> will know whether odometer readings depend on distance or speed. >> >>>> Again: Do cars all taking the exact same path but at different >>>> speeds record >>>> the same odometer reading, which would mean the odometer reading >>>> doesn't >>>> depend on speed? Why or why not? >> >> Why won't you answer this? >> > > He is clearly being nonresponsive. Therefore you have won the argument. > > Ken HATES losing an argument. Makes him sick to the stomach. Odd ALWAYS "wins" the argument no matter which side he takes in a debate. Lawyers are like that. He just changes the meaning of words until he "wins". What you don't get Kenseto is that the cars seem to be traveling the same paths but they aren't. Because they change speed, the car length changes and since the road is a moving frame to people in the car the road length is changing too. Time also changes. Since time measurements are part of velocity (speed) those readings are wrong too. The end result is that nothing reads what you think it would but is in perfect agreement with SR. It's all so simple. Ask anyone here, especially Odd Boinker.
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| From | Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-26 13:33 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <ni7fh7$1sh7$2@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #384301 |
On 5/26/2016 12:28 PM, benj wrote: > On 05/26/2016 12:57 PM, Odd Bodkin wrote: >> On 5/26/2016 11:26 AM, Michael Moroney wrote: >>> kenseto <setoken@att.net> writes: >>> >>>> On Thursday, May 26, 2016 at 10:44:05 AM UTC-4, Michael Moroney wrote: >>>>> kenseto <setoken@att.net> writes: >>>>> >>>>>> On Wednesday, May 25, 2016 at 6:46:23 PM UTC-4, Michael Moroney >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We have one car following a certain path at 20 mph. When it >>>>>>> reaches its >>>>>>> destination, its odometer has a certain value. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We have another car that follows the exact same path as the first >>>>>>> car, >>>>>>> except it travels at 100 mph. When it reaches its destination, >>>>>>> will its >>>>>>> odometer measure the same as that of the first car? Why or why not? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We have a bunch more cars following the exact same path, all with >>>>>>> different >>>>>>> speeds. When they reach the destination, will their odometers >>>>>>> measure the >>>>>>> same as that of the first car? Why or why not? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> You claim "The different odometer readings would be due to the >>>>>>> different >>>>>>> speeds." Here we have many different cars all following the same >>>>>>> path at >>>>>>> different speeds. Do you actually claim the odometer values will be >>>>>>> different due to the different speeds? >>>>> >>>>>> Sigh....if the cars travel different paths the different odometer >>>>>> readings >>>>>> when they meet again is due to their different speeds. >>>>> >>>>> Can't you read, Ken? I just got through describing how a bunch of >>>>> cars all >>>>> followed the exact same path but at different speeds and asked about >>>>> their >>>>> odometer readings, and you go off talking about cars taking >>>>> different paths! >>> >>>> Idiot.....we were talking above two car going from Chicago to NY via >>>> different paths. Gee you are stupid. >>> >>> No, we are talking about different cars following the _same_ path from >>> Chicago to New York. We are trying to resolve that kooky claim of yours >>> "The different odometer readings would be due to the different speeds." >>> by showing you how odometers measure distance, not speed, with two >>> thought experiments. Thought experiment 1: Multiple cars take the exact >>> same path from Chicago to NY but at different speeds, we compare the >>> odometer readings. 2: Multiple cars take different paths from >>> Chicago to >>> NY, but all go at the same speed. Two experiments, each with only one >>> parameter being varied in each. From the results of these >>> experiments, we >>> will know whether odometer readings depend on distance or speed. >>> >>>>> Again: Do cars all taking the exact same path but at different >>>>> speeds record >>>>> the same odometer reading, which would mean the odometer reading >>>>> doesn't >>>>> depend on speed? Why or why not? >>> >>> Why won't you answer this? >>> >> >> He is clearly being nonresponsive. Therefore you have won the argument. >> >> Ken HATES losing an argument. Makes him sick to the stomach. > > Odd ALWAYS "wins" the argument no matter which side he takes in a > debate. Lawyers are like that. He just changes the meaning of words > until he "wins". I haven't changed the meaning of any words. What I have related is the meaning of words as used by physicists. If you have a problem with the meaning of words as used by physicists, then don't blame me for that. > > What you don't get Kenseto is that the cars seem to be traveling the > same paths but they aren't. Because they change speed, the car length > changes and since the road is a moving frame to people in the car the > road length is changing too. Time also changes. Since time measurements > are part of velocity (speed) those readings are wrong too. The end > result is that nothing reads what you think it would but is in perfect > agreement with SR. It's all so simple. Ask anyone here, especially Odd > Boinker. > > -- Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables
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| From | kenseto <setoken@att.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-26 14:16 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <4e1810ed-a47f-4ea5-ad3f-172a610630c6@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #384314 |
On Thursday, May 26, 2016 at 2:33:15 PM UTC-4, Odd Bodkin wrote: > On 5/26/2016 12:28 PM, benj wrote: > > On 05/26/2016 12:57 PM, Odd Bodkin wrote: > >> On 5/26/2016 11:26 AM, Michael Moroney wrote: > >>> kenseto <setoken@att.net> writes: > >>> > >>>> On Thursday, May 26, 2016 at 10:44:05 AM UTC-4, Michael Moroney wrote: > >>>>> kenseto <setoken@att.net> writes: > >>>>> > >>>>>> On Wednesday, May 25, 2016 at 6:46:23 PM UTC-4, Michael Moroney > >>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> We have one car following a certain path at 20 mph. When it > >>>>>>> reaches its > >>>>>>> destination, its odometer has a certain value. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> We have another car that follows the exact same path as the first > >>>>>>> car, > >>>>>>> except it travels at 100 mph. When it reaches its destination, > >>>>>>> will its > >>>>>>> odometer measure the same as that of the first car? Why or why not? > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> We have a bunch more cars following the exact same path, all with > >>>>>>> different > >>>>>>> speeds. When they reach the destination, will their odometers > >>>>>>> measure the > >>>>>>> same as that of the first car? Why or why not? > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> You claim "The different odometer readings would be due to the > >>>>>>> different > >>>>>>> speeds." Here we have many different cars all following the same > >>>>>>> path at > >>>>>>> different speeds. Do you actually claim the odometer values will be > >>>>>>> different due to the different speeds? > >>>>> > >>>>>> Sigh....if the cars travel different paths the different odometer > >>>>>> readings > >>>>>> when they meet again is due to their different speeds. > >>>>> > >>>>> Can't you read, Ken? I just got through describing how a bunch of > >>>>> cars all > >>>>> followed the exact same path but at different speeds and asked about > >>>>> their > >>>>> odometer readings, and you go off talking about cars taking > >>>>> different paths! > >>> > >>>> Idiot.....we were talking above two car going from Chicago to NY via > >>>> different paths. Gee you are stupid. > >>> > >>> No, we are talking about different cars following the _same_ path from > >>> Chicago to New York. We are trying to resolve that kooky claim of yours > >>> "The different odometer readings would be due to the different speeds." > >>> by showing you how odometers measure distance, not speed, with two > >>> thought experiments. Thought experiment 1: Multiple cars take the exact > >>> same path from Chicago to NY but at different speeds, we compare the > >>> odometer readings. 2: Multiple cars take different paths from > >>> Chicago to > >>> NY, but all go at the same speed. Two experiments, each with only one > >>> parameter being varied in each. From the results of these > >>> experiments, we > >>> will know whether odometer readings depend on distance or speed. > >>> > >>>>> Again: Do cars all taking the exact same path but at different > >>>>> speeds record > >>>>> the same odometer reading, which would mean the odometer reading > >>>>> doesn't > >>>>> depend on speed? Why or why not? > >>> > >>> Why won't you answer this? > >>> > >> > >> He is clearly being nonresponsive. Therefore you have won the argument. > >> > >> Ken HATES losing an argument. Makes him sick to the stomach. > > > > Odd ALWAYS "wins" the argument no matter which side he takes in a > > debate. Lawyers are like that. He just changes the meaning of words > > until he "wins". > > I haven't changed the meaning of any words. Yes you did or at least physicists did. You said that a field is not a medium but it can have properties like a medium. What I have related is the > meaning of words as used by physicists. If you have a problem with the > meaning of words as used by physicists, then don't blame me for that. If physicists are infallible then why they were not able to come up with a viable theory of gravity? > > > > > What you don't get Kenseto is that the cars seem to be traveling the > > same paths but they aren't. Because they change speed, the car length > > changes and since the road is a moving frame to people in the car the > > road length is changing too. Time also changes. Since time measurements > > are part of velocity (speed) those readings are wrong too. The end > > result is that nothing reads what you think it would but is in perfect > > agreement with SR. It's all so simple. Ask anyone here, especially Odd > > Boinker. > > > > > > > -- > Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables
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| From | Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-26 16:54 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <ni7rb8$ec0$1@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #384338 |
On 5/26/2016 4:16 PM, kenseto wrote: > On Thursday, May 26, 2016 at 2:33:15 PM UTC-4, Odd Bodkin wrote: >> On 5/26/2016 12:28 PM, benj wrote: >>> On 05/26/2016 12:57 PM, Odd Bodkin wrote: >>>> On 5/26/2016 11:26 AM, Michael Moroney wrote: >>>>> kenseto <setoken@att.net> writes: >>>>> >>>>>> On Thursday, May 26, 2016 at 10:44:05 AM UTC-4, Michael Moroney wrote: >>>>>>> kenseto <setoken@att.net> writes: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Wednesday, May 25, 2016 at 6:46:23 PM UTC-4, Michael Moroney >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> We have one car following a certain path at 20 mph. When it >>>>>>>>> reaches its >>>>>>>>> destination, its odometer has a certain value. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> We have another car that follows the exact same path as the first >>>>>>>>> car, >>>>>>>>> except it travels at 100 mph. When it reaches its destination, >>>>>>>>> will its >>>>>>>>> odometer measure the same as that of the first car? Why or why not? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> We have a bunch more cars following the exact same path, all with >>>>>>>>> different >>>>>>>>> speeds. When they reach the destination, will their odometers >>>>>>>>> measure the >>>>>>>>> same as that of the first car? Why or why not? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> You claim "The different odometer readings would be due to the >>>>>>>>> different >>>>>>>>> speeds." Here we have many different cars all following the same >>>>>>>>> path at >>>>>>>>> different speeds. Do you actually claim the odometer values will be >>>>>>>>> different due to the different speeds? >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sigh....if the cars travel different paths the different odometer >>>>>>>> readings >>>>>>>> when they meet again is due to their different speeds. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Can't you read, Ken? I just got through describing how a bunch of >>>>>>> cars all >>>>>>> followed the exact same path but at different speeds and asked about >>>>>>> their >>>>>>> odometer readings, and you go off talking about cars taking >>>>>>> different paths! >>>>> >>>>>> Idiot.....we were talking above two car going from Chicago to NY via >>>>>> different paths. Gee you are stupid. >>>>> >>>>> No, we are talking about different cars following the _same_ path from >>>>> Chicago to New York. We are trying to resolve that kooky claim of yours >>>>> "The different odometer readings would be due to the different speeds." >>>>> by showing you how odometers measure distance, not speed, with two >>>>> thought experiments. Thought experiment 1: Multiple cars take the exact >>>>> same path from Chicago to NY but at different speeds, we compare the >>>>> odometer readings. 2: Multiple cars take different paths from >>>>> Chicago to >>>>> NY, but all go at the same speed. Two experiments, each with only one >>>>> parameter being varied in each. From the results of these >>>>> experiments, we >>>>> will know whether odometer readings depend on distance or speed. >>>>> >>>>>>> Again: Do cars all taking the exact same path but at different >>>>>>> speeds record >>>>>>> the same odometer reading, which would mean the odometer reading >>>>>>> doesn't >>>>>>> depend on speed? Why or why not? >>>>> >>>>> Why won't you answer this? >>>>> >>>> >>>> He is clearly being nonresponsive. Therefore you have won the argument. >>>> >>>> Ken HATES losing an argument. Makes him sick to the stomach. >>> >>> Odd ALWAYS "wins" the argument no matter which side he takes in a >>> debate. Lawyers are like that. He just changes the meaning of words >>> until he "wins". >> >> I haven't changed the meaning of any words. > > Yes you did or at least physicists did. Right, in the 1800s, when fields were first described and defined. So if you DID NOT PROPERLY LEARN the meaning of "field" when you studied it in the 1950s, that not the fault of physicists, it's YOUR fault. > You said that a field is not a medium > but it can have properties like a medium. And nobody has EVER said that the only thing that has properties is a medium. A chair can have legs like a table. This doesn't mean anything that has legs is a table, and it CERTAINLY doesn't mean a chair is a table. Likewise, a field can have properties like a material medium. This doesn't mean that anything that has properties is a material medium, and it CERTAINLY doesn't mean that a field is a material medium. > > What I have related is the >> meaning of words as used by physicists. If you have a problem with the >> meaning of words as used by physicists, then don't blame me for that. > > If physicists are infallible then why they were not able to come up with > a viable theory of gravity? Because science is not dead, Ken. There are still open questions to answer. This doesn't mean that what is known so far is WRONG. It just means that not everything still to go is known. It is perfectly possible that everything known to date is RIGHT, and still we don't have all the answers about the stuff that ISN'T known. I know you want a piece of the attention pie. You don't do yourself any favors by claiming physicists are WRONG when you don't even know what the words mean that they use. >> >>> >>> What you don't get Kenseto is that the cars seem to be traveling the >>> same paths but they aren't. Because they change speed, the car length >>> changes and since the road is a moving frame to people in the car the >>> road length is changing too. Time also changes. Since time measurements >>> are part of velocity (speed) those readings are wrong too. The end >>> result is that nothing reads what you think it would but is in perfect >>> agreement with SR. It's all so simple. Ask anyone here, especially Odd >>> Boinker. >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables > -- Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables
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| From | moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-26 17:36 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <ni7c7i$v4r$1@pcls7.std.com> |
| In reply to | #384297 |
Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> writes: >On 5/26/2016 11:26 AM, Michael Moroney wrote: >> kenseto <setoken@att.net> writes: >>> Idiot.....we were talking above two car going from Chicago to NY via >>> different paths. Gee you are stupid. >> >> No, we are talking about different cars following the _same_ path from >> Chicago to New York. We are trying to resolve that kooky claim of yours >> "The different odometer readings would be due to the different speeds." >> by showing you how odometers measure distance, not speed, with two >> thought experiments. Thought experiment 1: Multiple cars take the exact >> same path from Chicago to NY but at different speeds, we compare the >> odometer readings. 2: Multiple cars take different paths from Chicago to >> NY, but all go at the same speed. Two experiments, each with only one >> parameter being varied in each. From the results of these experiments, we >> will know whether odometer readings depend on distance or speed. >> >>>> Again: Do cars all taking the exact same path but at different speeds record >>>> the same odometer reading, which would mean the odometer reading doesn't >>>> depend on speed? Why or why not? >> >> Why won't you answer this? >> >He is clearly being nonresponsive. Therefore you have won the argument. <dances victory dance> That victory was easy. However, next time I want an opponent who makes for a better challenge.
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| From | RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-27 10:50 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <920bcefa-056d-48a0-9996-898c1b979124@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #384302 |
On May 26, Michael Moroney wrote: > However, next time I want an opponent who makes for > a better challenge. Explain the sidereal vs. solar day paradox, seen from the earth's frame of reference. -- Rich
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| From | Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-27 14:48 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <nia8as$1jf9$1@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #384424 |
On 5/27/2016 12:50 PM, RichD wrote: > On May 26, Michael Moroney wrote: >> However, next time I want an opponent who makes for >> a better challenge. > > Explain the sidereal vs. solar day paradox, seen > from the earth's frame of reference. > What paradox? -- Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables
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| From | RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-27 14:51 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <1875e35c-905a-4621-9b32-d16b8a996b07@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #384444 |
On May 27, Odd Bodkin wrote: >>> However, next time I want an opponent who makes for >>> a better challenge. > >> Explain the sidereal vs. solar day paradox, seen >> from the earth's frame of reference. > > What paradox? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZhti9tip-U -- Rich
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| From | Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-27 17:03 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <niag75$1ur1$1@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #384457 |
On 5/27/2016 4:51 PM, RichD wrote: > On May 27, Odd Bodkin wrote: >>>> However, next time I want an opponent who makes for >>>> a better challenge. >> >>> Explain the sidereal vs. solar day paradox, seen >>> from the earth's frame of reference. >> >> What paradox? > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZhti9tip-U > > > -- > Rich > Here's a nice little test you can try, called the square dancing test. Have your dance partner stand in the middle of the floor, always facing you. You will walk around your partner in a circle, initially facing your partner. Keep your eye on a picture on the wall behind your partner. We'll call that the 12:00 position. Now, when you get to the 3:00 position in your walk around, spin around once so that you're facing the same picture on the wall. Then walk to the 6:00 position and spin again, until you're facing the same picture. Then walk to the 9:00 position and spin again. Then again to the 12:00 position and spin again. How many times did you spin? Four times? Ask your dance partner how many times she was looking at you right in the face. Surprise! It won't be four. -- Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables
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| From | kenseto <setoken@att.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-26 13:53 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <dbe1927d-0501-493d-b5ff-6a9a9c8abc66@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #384293 |
On Thursday, May 26, 2016 at 12:27:21 PM UTC-4, Michael Moroney wrote: > kenseto <setoken@att.net> writes: > > >On Thursday, May 26, 2016 at 10:44:05 AM UTC-4, Michael Moroney wrote: > >> kenseto <setoken@att.net> writes: > >> > >> >On Wednesday, May 25, 2016 at 6:46:23 PM UTC-4, Michael Moroney wrote: > >> >> > >> >> We have one car following a certain path at 20 mph. When it reaches its > >> >> destination, its odometer has a certain value. > >> >> > >> >> We have another car that follows the exact same path as the first car, > >> >> except it travels at 100 mph. When it reaches its destination, will its > >> >> odometer measure the same as that of the first car? Why or why not? > >> >> > >> >> We have a bunch more cars following the exact same path, all with different > >> >> speeds. When they reach the destination, will their odometers measure the > >> >> same as that of the first car? Why or why not? > >> >> > >> >> You claim "The different odometer readings would be due to the different > >> >> speeds." Here we have many different cars all following the same path at > >> >> different speeds. Do you actually claim the odometer values will be > >> >> different due to the different speeds? > >> > >> >Sigh....if the cars travel different paths the different odometer readings > >> >when they meet again is due to their different speeds. > >> > >> Can't you read, Ken? I just got through describing how a bunch of cars all > >> followed the exact same path but at different speeds and asked about their > >> odometer readings, and you go off talking about cars taking different paths! > > >Idiot.....we were talking above two car going from Chicago to NY via > >different paths. Gee you are stupid. > > No, we are talking about different cars following the _same_ path from > Chicago to New York. Then go talk to yourself.....I am not going to waste any more time. > We are trying to resolve that kooky claim of yours > "The different odometer readings would be due to the different speeds." Fucking idiot..... I said no such thing. I said that different odometer readings between two cars traveling different paths is due to different path-lengths and different speeds. Gee you are so fucking stupid. > by showing you how odometers measure distance, not speed, with two > thought experiments. Thought experiment 1: Multiple cars take the exact > same path from Chicago to NY but at different speeds, we compare the > odometer readings. 2: Multiple cars take different paths from Chicago to > NY, but all go at the same speed. Two experiments, each with only one > parameter being varied in each. From the results of these experiments, we > will know whether odometer readings depend on distance or speed. > > >> Again: Do cars all taking the exact same path but at different speeds record > >> the same odometer reading, which would mean the odometer reading doesn't > >> depend on speed? Why or why not? > > Why won't you answer this?
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| From | rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-26 14:06 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <6ba6157a-cb95-4879-9a6f-d3e2f4dd87c0@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #384332 |
On Thursday, May 26, 2016 at 4:53:11 PM UTC-4, kenseto wrote: > On Thursday, May 26, 2016 at 12:27:21 PM UTC-4, Michael Moroney wrote: > Then go talk to yourself.....I am not going to waste any more time. Ken, every time you loose a debate, you say that. Grow up and admit you lost and learn from your mistakes. Thats what a real man does! > > We are trying to resolve that kooky claim of yours > > "The different odometer readings would be due to the different speeds." > > Fucking idiot..... I said no such thing. Yes you did. Google kept a record. Here is what you said, and I quote you: "the different distances registered on the two odometers are not due to different path length....but rather they are due to the different speeds of the two cars. " Do you agree now that you said that? > Gee you are so fucking stupid. Every time you lose a debate, you start to call people names. That is unscientific on your part and immature. Have a little respect!
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